Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » OK, Deej, you talked me into it...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: OK, Deej, you talked me into it... [message #93787 is a reply to message #93769] |
Thu, 20 December 2007 22:16   |
Nei
Messages: 108
Registered: November 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
t-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dimitrios,
I own Faderworks and will commend the man
who is responsible for this upgrade path!
A very nice development indeed!
Tom
"Dimitrios" <musurgio@otenet.gr> wrote in message =
news:47b9b0e5$1@linux...
DJ and other Paris users,
After contacting again Faderworks author about PDC although he did not =
refuse
to work on a REAL PDC plugin program for Paris !! he is not sure if =
enouph
people would buy that !
Instead he promised to update faderworks with this brilliant idea !!!
There will be an extra latency page where we will be ble to put every =
plugin
with its name and latency (typed from the bginning) meaning that you =
will
have to do thia once and type for all your vst/dx and eds plugins =
their latencies
(VSTSPY can detect vst latencies for you !) and have a ON/OFF button =
on each
of them.
So verytime you put a plugin, for instance UAD1 nigel then you just =
push
the ON button and every other Paris audio track will allign with Nigel =
!!!
Isn't that wonderful ?
Hey DJ jump back on Paris with us...
We need your input !
Please support the Faderworks plugin and you that you have no bought =
this
please do so as this is them most important VST plugin ever for all us =
Paris
users.
It does not only have this latency compensation we all were hoping for =
but
it is a 32 group maker for Paris !!! with mute, volume and panning =
whole
groups across submixes !!!
If you happen to buy Faderworks as to show our gratitute that this =
author
is paying attention to our needs when NO OTHER daw user would benefit =
anymore
then this is the least we can do to show our appreciattion !!
Thank for reading
Dimitrios
I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: OK, Deej, you talked me into it... [message #93802 is a reply to message #93787] |
Fri, 21 December 2007 10:03 |
|
|
now I'm =
not
dead.
> >>>> >
> >>>> >All the best,
> >>>> >
> >>>> >Mike
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C87304.054069B0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2180" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Have you guys tried using another Paris =
band for=20
lows</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>instead of eq band 1? #1 is =
particularly=20
blatty in the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>lows. The VST was designed to =
model the EDS=20
eq</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>top to bottom . . . so be =
it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"tonehouse" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:zmcleod@comcast.net">zmcleod@comcast.net</A>> wrote =
in message=20
<A href=3D"news:47bb2a7f@linux">news:47bb2a7f@linux</A>...</DIV>I =
agree with=20
Neil .I am not sure exactly what triggers it,but if I cut or<BR>boost =
much low=20
freq (100 or below)on the Paris eq,most of the time it gets =
a<BR>strange=20
distortion,or artifact to the sound...The EQ plug that works =
with<BR>multiple=20
instances and sounds great with Paris is the PSP =
MasterQ..hardly<
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: OK, Deej, you talked me into it... [message #93834 is a reply to message #93807] |
Fri, 21 December 2007 20:33 |
|
|
oiding using boost or cut on the bass<BR>because<BR>> =
>><BR>>=20
> >>of artifacts. Did you mean on the EQ trim or anywhere in =
>the=20
> graphic<BR>EQ?<BR>> ><BR>> >>Since many of us are XP =
>users it=20
> can make a difference knowing what you<BR>> ><BR>> =
>>>meant=20
> since the bass is a tough instrument to EQ in the first place =
>and<BR>>=20
> >we<BR>> >>may be complicating or making it worse with =
>EQ. I=20
> went with BT's<BR>> >>recommendation to crank t
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: OK, Deej, you talked me into it... [message #93839 is a reply to message #93837] |
Fri, 21 December 2007 22:33 |
|
|
ompared to=20
> two instances<BR>> >for<BR>> >>>> >the full =
>multi=20
> band.<BR>> >>>> ><BR>> >>>> >I've =
>been=20
> investigating the DC offset issues in the crossover. It<BR>>=20
> seems<BR>> >>>> >that whenever any PARIS eq is set =
>to a=20
> narrow band and at a low<BR>> >>> frequency,<BR>>=20
> >>>> >it generates some DC offset. I've tried =
>putting=20
> various DC offset<BR>> >>> filters<
|
|
|
|
| Re: OK, Deej, you talked me into it... [message #93887 is a reply to message #93787] |
Sat, 22 December 2007 12:50 |
Deej
Messages: 130
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
ot 0.03ms ?Black and white thinking would be:
-Microsoft is horrible and Apple is perfect.
Nobody is saying that, either. Not even James.
Or:
-Microsoft is horrible and Apple is equally horrible.
A few people seem to be saying that. But that sounds like a
rationalization to gloss over Microsoft's repeated bad behavior.
IMO, Microsoft has done some thing right, some things wrong, but have
demonstrated a pervasive lack of respect for business ethics (yes, there
is such a thing :^) and a lack of respect for the law which the record
shows has crossed over the line into criminal behavior. They did, after
all lose a criminal court case over the Netscape thing, and they also
ended up paying some millions to Be for Microsoft's illegal market
interference that drove BeOS out of the market, (a real loss for media
producers BTW). Microsoft's shenanigans are legendary and haven't stopped.
OTOH, Apple has pulled some boneheaded moves along the way. The example
with hardware OEMs being one. And _their_ treatment of Be being another.
Also the years wasted trying to get past OS9 before finally bringing
in NeXT. However, AFAIK, Apple did not do anything criminal in those cases.
Both companies flirted with ethical impropriety with stock options, and
both have changed their policies there. Apple perhaps worse on that one,
I think several people left Apple in a legal cloud over that issue.
Whereas I don't think anyone left Microsoft over responsibility for any
of their criminal transgressions. AFAIK, at Microsoft no one has taken
responsibility, _ever_, for anything. Microsoft just seems to pay the
fines as a cost of doing business while aggressively manipulating the
system to reduce the consequences for their questionable actions.
On the plus side, Microsoft has contributed to making the computer
business into a commodity business with downward price pressures. This
is beneficial, to a point, but the "Microsoft tax" also adds to the
cost, sometimes even for those using, say, Linux. And currently
Microsoft is pushing their user base to adopt a new OS that is less
robust than their previous version and apparently a step backwards for
media producers.
On the plus side, Apple has built a business that pays attention to
media producers, from the production side through the distribution side,
and for that they deserve some amount of credit from folks like us. And
on some of their pro products, hardware and software, the pricing is
actually a better deal than other options. OTOH, for some products it's
not a better deal, and sometimes Apple's increasing consumer orientation
seems a distraction from the pro side.
From my experience, I've had personal responses from Apple which
demonstrate that they are generally focused on getting things right with
their media production products. While they do rush out buggy software
sometimes, they have improved their products immensely over the years
that I've been using them. They do listen to users and some of their
products have earned their reputation as industry standards for media
production.
Overall, it would be far too simplistic to say that one of these
companies is just as bad as another. In my view, between the two,
Microsoft clearly takes the "prize" for unethical behavior. While at the
same time Apple is not perfect.
But if that's too "nuanced" then yeah, they both suck. ;^)
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
Kim wrote:
> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Yeah, Microsoft never screws anybody.
>
> Dude, NOBODY is saying that.
>
> Cheers,
> Kim.
>HI John,
With Sonar no way Jose.
Chris
John wrote:
> isn't it 3ms latency and not 0.03ms ?
--
Chris Ludwig
ADK Pro Audio
(859) 635-5762
www.adkproaudio.com
chrisl@adkproaudio.comFor the record, it was what Apple did to the cloners that drove me into the
ever welcoming arms of Redmond. I couldn't afford Apple hardware, but I could
afford a Power 603e machine that was my first experience with computer audio.
Less than a year after that Apple shut down the cloners and I realized, 'Hey,
these are greedy corporate bastards just like Microsoft. And Windows hardware
is cheap and I can build my own.' Which lead me to a 400 Mhz Celeron + Paris,
and the rest is (grim, money losing, book publishing) history.
Your story is one version. Another is that Power was a smart, talented, agile
hardware vendor who was beating the daylights out of Apple because they were
everything Apple had long since ceased to be--entrepreneurial and customer
oriented.
TCB
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote:
>>
>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:47bba823$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Ok, can you give me a legitimate example of Apple buying market share?
> I
>>
>>How about the time the pulled the OS licensing from PowerComputing and
UMaxx
>
>>and closed two entire companies and threw all those folks out of work.
>>
>>
>Deej since you mentioned PowerComputing,there are a few things that should
>be noted. As I've said, the cloners ate in to Apple's sales. The clones
>advertised mainly in Mac publications to Mac users, If they had advertised
>in PC publications and did other forms of advertising to non Mac users they
>would have grown the market. They didn't, they cherry picked Apple sales.
> One such famous incident was when PowerComputing was directly competing
>with Apple by selling 3000 clones to Apple's long time customer Lockheed
>Martin, that didn't go over to well. PowerComputing also worked a deal
with
>IBM to get the fastest PowerPC processors before Apple could, this further
>cost Apple sales.
>
>Steve Jobs went to all the cloners and tried to renegotiate the licensing
>prices, the cloners wouldn't hear of it, so Apple did not renew the licensing
>with Mac OS 8. Apple did not pull the licensing. The cloners could still
>build systems and ship them with Mac OS 7.6 installed, and bundled OS 8,
>they chose not to. PowerComputing announced after that, that they were
going
>to start building PCs, which I think they did for a short time. In the
end,
>Apple bought out PowerComputing for 100 million dollars in Apple stock.
>I think that was pretty generous of Apple. I believe it was up to Kahng
>to take care of his workers from there.
>
>As far as UMAX, they continued on for years building scanners and other
products
>as they did before they made clones.Did you get my email(s)
if not please contact me at
dnafe at rogers dot com
ThanksHi Guys Thanks for your responses. What had happened is the new MoBo came
with it's own risers. I replaced my old ones with them and the new ones were
a tad shorter, so the metal tang was preventing the EDS from going down far
enough. I am putting the old risers back in but wouldn't you know I'm 2 short.
Well not me but the number of risers I have, so I have to wait to finish
until I can get to town and get 2 more risers.When I get this I will be back
with more?'s. Thanks again Jim
Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>HI Neil,
> Yes good point.
>If its on slots 1-3 it could be resting on the chipset heat sink fan and
>on slot 5 it could be resting on the yellow USB port connectors.
>Chris
>
>
>
>Neil wrote:
>> Or, could it be the very back end of the card, hitting against
>> a lip or ridge or something like that on the inside of the case
>> itself (depending on how deep the case is)?
>>
>> Neil
>>
>>
>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Is the metal tang that you screw it down with preventing it from going
down
>>> more ?
>>>
>>
>>
>
>--
>Chris Ludwig
>ADK
>chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>(859) 635-5762My Phenergan/Codiene cough syrup can kick your Vicodin's butt any day.
"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uhatr3leus43r9373l4j1luoi4mjf0la1s@4ax.com...
>i don't get it...must be the vicodin. ;o)
>
>
>
> On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 23:05:52 -0600, "Aaron Allen"
> <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>
>>While walking down the street one day a US
>>senator is tragically hit by a truck and dies.
>>His soul arrives in heaven and is met by St. Peter at
>>the Golden Gate.
>>
>>"Welcome to heaven," says St. Peter. "Before you
>>settle in, it seems
>> there is a problem. We seldom see a high official
>>around these parts,
>> you see, so we're not sure what to do with you." "No
>>problem, just
>> let me in," says the man. "Well, I'd like to, but I
>>have orders from
>> higher up. What we'll do is have you spend one day
>>in hell and one in
>> heaven. Then you can choose where to spend
>>eternity." "Really, I've made
>> up my mind. I want to be in heaven," says the
>>senator. "I'm sorry, but
>> we have our ru
|
|
|
|
| Re: OK, Deej, you talked me into it... [message #93889 is a reply to message #93837] |
Sat, 22 December 2007 13:04 |
Deej
Messages: 130
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
mputing was directly competing
>>with Apple by selling 3000 clones to Apple's long time customer Lockheed
>>Martin, that didn't go over to well. PowerComputing also worked a deal
> with
>>IBM to get the fastest PowerPC processors before Apple could, this further
>>cost Apple sales.
>>
>>Steve Jobs went to all the cloners and tried to renegotiate the licensing
>>prices, the cloners wouldn't hear of it, so Apple did not renew the
>>licensing
>>with Mac OS 8. Apple did not pull the licensing. The cloners could still
>>build systems and ship them with Mac OS 7.6 installed, and bundled OS 8,
>>they chose not to. PowerComputing announced after that, that they were
> going
>>to start building PCs, which I think they did for a short time. In the
> end,
>>Apple bought out PowerComputing for 100 million dollars in Apple stock.
>
>>I think that was pretty generous of Apple. I believe it was up to Kahng
>>to take care of his workers from there.
>>
>>As far as UMAX,
|
|
|
|
| Re: OK, Deej, you talked me into it... [message #93894 is a reply to message #93887] |
Sat, 22 December 2007 18:09 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
are no where near close
>to MS on being evil and unscrupulous. Not the same!
Dude, I would tend to agree that M$ are a little worse. My opinion is that
part of the reason for this is that they simply have more power, but that's
my opinion and I don't expect you to share it.
What I do expect you to share is the basic idea that NEITHER of them are
perfect and NEITHER of them are COMPLETELY evil. They are both a mix. Sometimes
they see a competitor and use their power to club them over the head to the
detriment of all of us. Both of them do it. One has more ability to do it
than the other.
But really... whatever. ;o)
Cheers,
Kim.HI Lamont,
All that and still the worst support and worst warranty in the business.
Chris
LaMont wrote:
> Just got off of the Motus site to see the new 828 MkIII..WOW!!
>
> Take a look at the setup. The nice mixer with EQ, lim, & Verb. As well as
> the Control Room section. Nice touch..
>
> http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/828mk3/images/mix_lar ge.jpg/image_view_fullscreen
>
> http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/828mk3/cuemix-fx.html
>
> http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/828mk3
>
>
>
>
--
Chris Ludwig
ADK Pro Audio
(859) 635-5762
www.adkproaudio.com
chrisl@adkproaudio.comChris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>HI Lamont,
> All that and still the worst support and worst warranty in the business.
What's that... they give you a "waiver warranty"?
(meaning, the warranty's good for as long as you can see the
salesman waving in your rear-view mirror as you're driving
away from the store).
:)"jim drago" <jamesd@prospect.k12.or.us> wrote:
>
>Hi Guys Thanks for your responses. What had happened is the new MoBo came
>with it's own risers. I replaced my old ones with them and the new ones
were
>a tad shorter, so the metal tang was preventing the EDS from going down
far
>enough.
Ah... so John nailed the problem!
>I am putting the old risers back in but wouldn't you know I'm 2 short.
>Well not me but the number of risers I have, so I have to wait to finish
>until I can get to town and get 2 more risers.
You don't want to just get a crazy straw & cut a couple pieces
to length & stick a couple screws through there? lol
NeilWow! After a long, long time, I finally got my 2nd CD finished and made.
It was recorded entirely in Paris, and mastered entirely in Paris by our
own Sakis. It is called, "Images of Movements thru Time and Space."
It is a bit difficult to categorize, as it has roots in jazz due to the
improvisation involved, yet it also has classical and avant garde roots.
There is more information about the CD, along with some mp3 samples on
my site at www.enchantedvibrations.net
I even got Gene Lennon involved in checking out my mixes early on. I have
some GREAT players joining me, including guitarist Michael Gregory. Check
it out.
Lou GuarinoOr this warranty: If it breaks in half, you get both halves!
;^)
But since my 828MkII has been very dependable; and since MOTU has been
timely with OSX driver updates when needed; and since the new 828MkIII
feature set looks tempting; I think the 828MkIII is worth considering.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
Neil wrote:
> Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>> HI Lamont,
>> All that and still the worst support and worst warranty in the business.
>
> What's that... they give you a "waiver warranty"?
> (meaning, the warranty's good for as long as you can see the
> salesman waving in your rear-view mirror as you're driving
> away from the store).
>
> :)Congrats Lou!
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
Louis Guarino Jr. wrote:
> Wow! After a long, long time, I finally got my 2nd CD finished and made.
> It was recorded entirely in Paris, and mastered entirely in Paris by our
> own Sakis. It is called, "Images of Movements thru Time and Space."
>
> It is a bit difficult to categorize, as it has roots in jazz due to the
> improvisation involved, yet it also has classical and avant garde roots.
> There is more information about the CD, along with some mp3 samples on
> my site at www.enchantedvibrations.net
>
> I even got Gene Lennon involved in checking out my mixes early on. I have
> some GREAT players joining me, including guitarist Michael Gregory. Check
> it out.
>
> Lou GuarinoI thought about that but I didn't have any screws the right length. ;^)
"Neil" <OIOI@OI.com> wrote:
>
>"jim drago" <jamesd@prospect.k12.or.us> wrote:
>>
>>Hi Guys Thanks for your responses. What had happened is the new MoBo came
>>with it's own risers. I replaced my old ones with them and the new ones
>were
>>a tad shorter, so the metal tang was preventing the EDS from going down
>far
>>enough.
>
>Ah... so John nailed the problem!
>
>>I am putting the old risers back in but wouldn't you know I'm 2 short.
>>Well not me but the number of risers I have, so I have to wait to finish
>>until I can get to town and get 2 more risers.
>
>You don't want to just get a crazy straw & cut a couple pieces
>to length & stick a couple screws through there? lol
>
>NeilHI Neil,
90 day warranty and you have to pay a 79.00 fee minimum for replace or
repair past that.
Chris
Neil wrote:
> Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>
>> HI Lamont,
>> All that and still the worst support and worst warranty in the business.
>>
>
> What's that... they give you a "waiver warranty"?
> (meaning, the warranty's good for as long as you can see the
> salesman waving in your rear-view mirror as you're driving
> away from the store).
>
> :)
>
--
Chris Ludwig
ADK
chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
(859) 635-5762I don't chris..sweetwater warrants motu stuff much longer than 90 days..
Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>HI Neil,
>90 day warranty and you have to pay a 79.00 fee minimum for replace or
>repair past that.
>
>Chris
>
>
>Neil wrote:
>> Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>>
>>> HI Lamont,
>>> All that and still the worst support and worst warranty in the business.
>>>
>>
>> What's that... they give you a "waiver warranty"?
>> (meaning, the warranty's good for as long as you can see the
>> salesman waving in your rear-view mirror as you're driving
>> away from the store).
>>
>> :)
>>
>
>--
>Chris Ludwig
>ADK
>chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>(859) 635-5762"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>Dude, my point is Apple and Microsoft are not the same when it comes to
>business
>>practices and ethics. Apples not perfect, but they are no where near close
>>to MS on being evil and unscrupulous. Not the same!
>
>Dude, I would tend to agree that M$ are a little worse. My opinion is that
>part of the reason for this is that they simply have more power, but that's
>my opinion and I don't expect you to share it.
>
>What I do expect you to share is the basic idea that NEITHER of them are
>perfect and NEITHER of them are COMPLETELY evil. They are both a mix. Sometimes
>they see a competitor and use their power to club them over the head to
the
>detriment of all of us. Both of them do it. One has more ability to do it
>than the other.
>
Can you give me an example of Apple doing this?
>But really... whatever. ;o)
>
>Cheers,
>Kim.
>I'll mention that Tascam has had this kind of 90 day BS warranty forever also.
You would think there would be federal laws that would say otherwise.
Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>HI Neil,
>90 day warranty and you have to pay a 79.00 fee minimum for replace or
>repair past that.
>
>Chris
>
>
>Neil wrote:
>> Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>>
>>> HI Lamont,
>>> All that and still the worst support and worst warranty in the business.
>>>
>>
>> What's that... they give you a "waiver warranty"?
>> (meaning, the warranty's good for as long as you can see the
>> salesman waving in your rear-view mirror as you're driving
>> away from the store).
>>
>> :)
>>
>
>--
>Chris Ludwig
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OK, Deej, you talked me into it... [message #93896 is a reply to message #93894] |
Sat, 22 December 2007 18:18 |
Deej
Messages: 130
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
can't prove it - yet) is that Apple gave Apogee lower
level access to core audio that isn't in the SDK, thereby giving the
Apogee/Logic combo a significant edge over Digital Performer, Nuendo/Cubase,
RME, MOTU, Digidesign, etc.
7) Apple drops the price of Logic to $500, with additional software/etc
thrown in (imho, this is below average market value for a DAW software and
most likely a loss leader).
8) Why? To sell Macs and Apogee interfaces. Logic is priced too low to be
a profit center - it's just a marketing tool now to expand the Mac's
position in consumer, prosumer, hobby, and beginner, lower end musician
markets, to the detriment of other 3rd party companies also developing for
the platform.
In both cases, Apple is using applications to push their hardware, even
though there are competing applications, and the Microsoft argument would
suggest that using applications and exclusivity of them, and hardware, is a
conflict of interest for an operating system developer, much less a computer
builder.
Just my .02 - can't prove it any more than anyone can *prove* Microsoft is
evil. I don't like MS, but Apple isn't making friends in my end of the pro
audio world - just putting this in perspective. Btw, I'm not the only one
with this supposition - there are some other well respected audio people in
agreement.
Btw - didn't post this to get deeper into an argument - just since you asked
for an example, and I had read the same supposition of Apple's move with
core audio from another Nuendo user just today, so might as well pass it on
here.
I don't hate Apple - but I do hate exclusive deals, and lock outs that do
nothing but hurt the consumer by limiting options. I have yet to verify
that core audio really is faster with Apogee interfaces, so take that with a
grain of salt - Apogee claims they are, of course. Point is, if to get the
most out of your Mac for audio, you not only have to buy and Apogee
interface (an Apple partner), but Logic as well, and don't have the option
of running a MOTU interface, RME, Lynx, M-Audio, etc with any other
software, your are sacrificing options.
Sounds like a text book Digidesign move to me, but it's Apple doing the
price cuts and exclusive deals to undercut the market and sell more Macs and
other Apple-partner products. If there were no Mac support from other
companies (MOTU, RME, Lynx, etc), you could call it "their product, their
market", but we are comparing operating systems and computers here, so that
doesn't stand. It may not be illegal (but I believe it is close), but it is
hurting consumers.
Regards,
DedricThis is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_00DB_01C8759F.2F37E020
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
We'll just have to disagree about it I guess. I still like ya and I =
think you're a cool dude, just a bit misguided :) I find nothing ethical =
in the things I've posted about so far and you could post the same kind =
of things about MS and we'd see that together. But not the mighty blue =
apple? Added to that the Jobs li(n)e by li(n)e <-bad pun #1> that was =
pushed on the public (*).=20
It ain't like I'm saying MS is ethical - they're not, either - but the =
only thing keeping Apple from being the same ugly foul hairy beast is =
financial firepower. Gates lies about how great Vista is. It's a turd. =
Jobs lied about how great Motorola chips were. They were turds. Gates =
forces you as a business to buy office/OS's through each planned =
obsolescene upgrade. Jobs tells you to think you're safe from virii as =
an ad campaign and tells you how Mac runs office 'just as well as a PC'. =
but fails to mention it's OLD version of office, years old in fact. =
There are 60 known virii in the wild for Mac, but you won't hear about =
that from Jobs/Apple. =20
Apple Ads, speaking of....PC's are cold and harsh and only good at =
office apps, 'eh? Somebody should tell that to all the video and audio =
guys that make wonderful art every single day on a windows PC, because =
they didn't get the memo. I will say that iLife and GarageBand are =
pretty cool, though not pro of course. I have 2 macs at my avail at =
work, and several PC's. Frankly, they both tick me off from time to time =
but the Win boxes see more use and tick me off a whole lot less. Nothing =
like plugging in a KVM and having your Mac reach an unrecoverable error =
and forced shutdown because it doesn't like the KVM. Every time. But not =
being the latest OS I can't get support for it w/o buying some more =
"apple care", and Belkin had no idea what would cause it, nor my vendor. =
I had been considering a Mini for personal use (with boot camp of =
course), but that kinda gotcha rather cinched the "think I'll pass for =
now" for me. MacOS-x 10.29 on dual procs, and it's a foot prop under my =
desk now. At least it doesn't crash that way and it's more ergonomic for =
my peds, heh... I get a warm fuzzy and smirk when my feet hit it :>
(*) Apple is so much faster, Apple is so much more interesting, Apple is =
so much better at.... er, .... hey, it's the new and improved Apple now =
with INTEL hardware (IE, that's called a PC Steve-O, and no amount of =
backpeddling will cover the fact that you were lying through your teeth =
about how much faster Motorola's I'd-rather-be-in-a-cell-phone chips =
were over INTEL) and it's so much better than , uh.. running windows =
(can't say PC anymore at this point)! Er, wait.. now you can run Windows =
on your Apple! (which I don't have a problem with, in fact I applaud =
that one but don't you think that's rather odd for Apple to say bad =
windows, bad windows.. hey, you can now run windows?) I also give major =
points to that dually quicksilver being WAY cleanly designed inside. =
Superb visual build inside the box. Too bad it's an ergonomic foot =
device now.=20
You talked about MS stealing the macOS software GUI. Ok, where did Apple =
get their code base from for OS-X? Can't see the worm in both apples, =
'eh? <-yes, that was bad pun #2.... but I am a punny guy!>
They screwed you as a clone seller even and still you deny. Horse, =
water, no drinky. You're probably thinking the same thing about the =
majority here. In all seriousness, I'm glad you have enjoyed your =
relationships with Mac, I cannot report the same, unfortunately. I =
absolutely adore my iPOD though, and although iPhone is tre' cool, it's =
not cutting it with me on the tech end so it's off the list of 'to buy'. =
I also thought that the Cinema Display was about the most beautiful =
display ever as far back as 4~5 years ago. on the overall though, I =
didn't like Apple computer kool-aid any better than MS's kool-aid.
You're ok in my book man, so don't take any of this all personal or =
anything, it's really not meant that way. I haven't forgotten when I had =
a problem with a Mac you are the first and only dude offered and =
followed through to help me out. Some day I'll get a chance to repay in =
kind.
AA
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:47bf218e$1@linux...
>=20
> For the record, it was what Apple did to the cloners that drove me =
into the
> ever welcoming arms of Redmond. I couldn't afford Apple hardware, but =
I could
> afford a Power 603e machine that was my first experience with computer =
audio.
> Less than a year after that Apple shut down the cloners and I =
realized, 'Hey,
> these are greedy corporate bastards just like Microsoft. And Windows =
hardware
> is cheap and I can build my own.' Which lead me to a 400 Mhz Celeron + =
Paris,
> and the rest is (grim, money losing, book publishing) history.=20
>=20
> Your story is one version. Another is that Power was a smart, =
talented, agile
> hardware vendor who was beating the daylights out of Apple because =
they were
> everything Apple had long since ceased to be--entrepreneurial and =
customer
> oriented.=20
>=20
> TCB
>=20
> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>"Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message=20
>>>news:47bba823$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> Ok, can you give me a legitimate example of Apple buying market =
share?
>> I
>>>
>>>How about the time the pulled the OS licensing from PowerComputing =
and
> UMaxx
>>
>>>and closed two entire companies and threw all those folks out of =
work.
>>>
>>>
>>Deej since you mentioned PowerComputing,there are a few things that =
should
>>be noted. As I've said, the cloners ate in to Apple's sales. The =
clones
>>advertised mainly in Mac publications to Mac users, If they had =
advertised
>>in PC publications and did other forms of advertising to non Mac users =
they
>>would have grown the market. They didn't, they cherry picked Apple =
sales.
>> One such famous incident was when PowerComputing was directly =
competing
>>with Apple by selling 3000 clones to Apple's long time customer =
Lockheed
>>Martin, that didn't go over to well. PowerComputing also worked a =
deal
> with
>>IBM to get the fastest PowerPC processors before Apple could, this =
further
>>cost Apple sales.
>>
>>Steve Jobs went to all the cloners and tried to renegotiate the =
licensing
>>prices, the cloners wouldn't hear of it, so Apple did not renew the =
licensing
>>with Mac OS 8. Apple did not pull the licensing. The cloners could =
still
>>build systems and ship them with Mac OS 7.6 installed, and bundled OS =
8,
>>they chose not to. PowerComputing announced after that, that they =
were
> going
>>to start building PCs, which I think they did for a short time. In =
the
> end,
>>Apple bought out PowerComputing for 100 million dollars in Apple =
stock.
>=20
>>I think that was pretty generous of Apple. I believe it was up to =
Kahng
>>to take care of his workers from there.
>>
>>As far as UMAX, they continued on for years building scanners and =
other
> products
>>as they did before they made clones.
>
------=_NextPart_000_00DB_01C8759F.2F37E020
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16608" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>We'll just have to disagree about it I guess. I =
still like=20
ya and I think you're a cool dude, just a bit misguided :) I find =
nothing=20
ethical in the things I've posted about so far and you could post the =
same kind=20
of things about MS and we'd see that together. But not the mighty blue =
apple?=20
Added to that the Jobs li(n)e by li(n)e <-bad pun #1> that was =
pushed on=20
the public<STRONG> (*).</STRONG> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>
|
|
|
|
| Re: OK, Deej, you talked me into it... OK I figured out the problem-Clip posted [message #93898 is a reply to message #93896] |
Sat, 22 December 2007 19:59 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
have grown the market. They =
didn't,=20
they cherry picked Apple sales.<BR>>> One such famous incident was =
when=20
PowerComputing was directly competing<BR>>>with Apple by selling =
3000=20
clones to Apple's long time customer Lockheed<BR>>>Martin, that =
didn't go=20
over to well. PowerComputing also worked a deal<BR>>=20
with<BR>>>IBM to get the fastest PowerPC processors before Apple =
could,=20
this further<BR>>>cost Apple sales.<BR>>><BR>>>Steve =
Jobs went=20
to all the cloners and tried to renegotiate the =
licensing<BR>>>prices, the=20
cloners wouldn't hear of it, so Apple did not renew the=20
licensing<BR>>>with Mac OS 8. Apple did not pull the=20
licensing. The cloners could still<BR>>>build systems and =
ship them=20
with Mac OS 7.6 installed, and bundled OS 8,<BR>>>they chose not =
to. =20
PowerComputing announced after that, that they were<BR>> =
going<BR>>>to=20
start building PCs, which I think they did for a short time. In=20
the<BR>> end,<BR>>>Apple bought out PowerComputing for 100 =
million=20
dollars in Apple stock.<BR>> <BR>>>I think that was pretty =
generous of=20
Apple. I believe it was up to Kahng<BR>>>to take care of his =
workers=20
from there.<BR>>><BR>>>As far as UMAX, they continued on for =
years=20
building scanners and other<BR>> products<BR>>>as they did =
before they=20
made clones.<BR>></FONT></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_00DB_01C8759F.2F37E020--Gaff tape man. Gaff tape.
AA
"jim drago" <jamesd@prospect.k12.or.us> wrote in message
news:47bf7ae8$1@linux...
>
> I thought about that but I didn't have any screws the right length. ;^)
>
> "Neil" <OIOI@OI.com> wrote:
>>
>>"jim drago" <jamesd@prospect.k12.or.us> wrote:
>>>
>>>Hi Guys Thanks for your responses. What had happened is the new MoBo came
>>>with it's own risers. I replaced my old ones with them and the new ones
>>were
>>>a tad shorter, so the metal tang was preventing the EDS from going down
>>far
>>>enough.
>>
>>Ah... so John nailed the problem!
>>
>>>I am putting the old risers back in but wouldn't you know I'm 2 short.
>>>Well not me but the number of risers I have, so I have to wait to finish
>>>until I can get to town and get 2 more risers.
>>
>>You don't want to just get a crazy straw & cut a couple pieces
>>to length & stick a couple screws through there? lol
>>
>>Neil
>dig on the Steinerphone... how's it play man?
AA
"Louis Guarino Jr." <kateeba@snet.net> wrote in message
news:47bf70a0$1@linux...
>
> Wow! After a long, long time, I finally got my 2nd CD finished and made.
> It was recorded entirely in Paris, and mastered entirely in Paris by our
> own Sakis. It is called, "Images of Movements thru Time and Space."
>
> It is a bit difficult to categorize, as it has roots in jazz due to the
> improvisation involved, yet it also has classical and avant garde roots.
> There is more information about the CD, along with some mp3 samples on
> my site at www.enchantedvibrations.net
>
> I even got Gene Lennon involved in checking out my mixes early on. I
> have
> some GREAT players joining me, including guitarist Michael Gregory.
> Check
> it out.
>
> Lou GuarinoWorse than TASCAM/GIGA????
"Chris Ludwig" <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote in message
news:47bf6ada@linux...
> HI Lamont,
> All that and still the worst support and worst warranty in the business.
>
>
>
> Chris
>
>
> LaMont wrote:
>> Just got off of the Motus site to see the new 828 MkIII..WOW!!
>>
>> Take a look at the setup. The nice mixer with EQ, lim, & Verb. As well as
>> the Control Room section. Nice touch..
>>
>> http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/828mk3/images/mix_lar ge.jpg/image_view_fullscreen
>>
>> http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/828mk3/cuemix-fx.html
>>
>> http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/828mk3
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Chris Ludwig
>
> ADK Pro Audio
> (859) 635-5762
> www.adkproaudio.com
> chrisl@adkproaudio.com.... and we'll agree that Tascam support baa-lowwwwwwsss....
AA
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:47bf8834$1@linux...
>
> I'll mention that Tascam has had this kind of 90 day BS warranty forever
> also.
> You would think there would be federal laws that would say otherwise.
>
> Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>>HI Neil,
>>90 day warranty and you have to pay a 79.00 fee minimum for replace or
>>repair past that.
>>
>>Chris
>>
>>
>>Neil wrote:
>>> Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> HI Lamont,
>>>> All that and still the worst support and worst warranty in the
>>>> business.
>>>>
>>>
>>> What's that... they give you a "waiver warranty"?
>>> (meaning, the warranty's good for as long as you can see the
>>> salesman waving in your rear-view mirror as you're driving
>>> away from the store).
>>>
>>> :)
>>>
>>
>>--
>>Chris Ludwig
>>ADK
>>chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>>www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>>(859) 635-5762
>it's cool, but those dudes need to practice with a metronome, LOL
AA
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:47bcb299$1@linux...
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh0VX74alwkA lot of this is speculation, not fact. I will say over the years many companies
dropped support for the Mac platform, one example was when Parsons dropped
Quick Books for Mac, luckily we got that one back. Mac users have had to
deal with this for years.
Why should Apple develop for another platform when it does not benefit them?
They are trying to grow the Mac market not the PC market! I'll remind you
that they offered PC users special pricing, including on hardware. PC users
were not left out in the cold. If you haven't noticed, Apple unlike MS,
sells integrated hardware and software, they have a different business model.
Yes, they use Hardware and software to push each other.
By the way, if you haven't heard, anti trust cases were brought against Microsoft,
these cases were adjudicated and Microsoft was found guilty. Thanks to Bush
and friends, MS has gotten a slap on the wrist instead of a break up. MS
is back to their old tricks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Microsoft
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_v._Microsoft
Think what you want!
Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>On 2/22/08 8:36 PM, in article 47bf86b2$1@linux, "James McCloskey"
><excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> What I do expect you to share is the basic idea that NEITHER of them
are
>>> perfect and NEITHER of them are COMPLETELY evil. They are both a mix.
>>> Sometimes
>>> they see a competitor and use their power to club them over the head
to
>> the
>>> detriment of all of us. Both of them do it. One has more ability to do
it
>>> than the other.
>>>
>>
>> Can you give me an example of Apple doing this?
>
>How about more than one:
>
>1) Shake is a $9900 application in 1999 ($3900 render only)
>2) Apply buys it, drops the price a couple of times (OSX version less than
>other versions), offering free double licenses for users upgrading to OSX.
>3) Apple discontinues Windows support for it.
>4) Fast forward to 2003, Shake is still $2999 for both OSX and Linux.
>5) Apple drops the OSX version price to $499. Linux version remains $2999.
>
>See more here for the price change details and decide for yourself:
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shake_(software)
>
>Just my opinion, but anytime an app is dropped from $3k to $500, selling
>software as a profitable product isn't the goal.
>
>
>Next:
>1) Apple buys Emagic (there's a song in this one somewhere...;-)
>2) Drops PC support for Logic promptly.
>3) Slow development ensues...then finally core audio appears
>4) Apple signs exclusive deal with Apogee for Symphony, Ensemble, etc for
>Logic/Mac only
>5) Symphony reports lower latency and better performance than other apps
>under core audio
>6) Speculation (no, I can't prove it - yet) is that Apple gave Apogee lower
>level access to core audio that isn't in the SDK, thereby giving the
>Apogee/Logic combo a significant edge over Digital Performer, Nuendo/Cubase,
>RME, MOTU, Digidesign, etc.
>7) Apple drops the price of Logic to $500, with additional software/etc
>thrown in (imho, this is below average market value for a DAW software and
>most likely a loss leader).
>8) Why? To sell Macs and Apogee interfaces. Logic is priced too low to
be
>a profit center - it's just a marketing tool now to expand the Mac's
>position in consumer, prosumer, hobby, and beginner, lower end musician
>markets, to the detriment of other 3rd party companies also developing for
>the platform.
>
>In both cases, Apple is using applications to push their hardware, even
>though there are competing applications, and the Microsoft argument would
>suggest that using applications and exclusivity of them, and hardware, is
a
>conflict of interest for an operating system developer, much less a computer
>builder.
>
>Just my .02 - can't prove it any more than anyone can *prove* Microsoft
is
>evil. I don't like MS, but Apple isn't making friends in my end of the
pro
>audio world - just putting this in perspective. Btw, I'm not the only one
>with this supposition - there are some other well respected audio people
in
>agreement.
>
>Btw - didn't post this to get deeper into an argument - just since you asked
>for an example, and I had read the same supposition of Apple's move with
>core audio from another Nuendo user just today, so might as well pass it
on
>here.
>
>I don't hate Apple - but I do hate exclusive deals, and lock outs that do
>nothing but hurt the consumer by limiting options. I have yet to verify
>that core audio really is faster with Apogee interfaces, so take that with
a
>grain of salt - Apogee claims they are, of course. Point is, if to get
the
>most out of your Mac for audio, you not only have to buy and Apogee
>interface (an Apple partner), but Logic as well, and don't have the option
>of running a MOTU interface, RME, Lynx, M-Audio, etc with any other
>software, your are sacrificing options.
>
>Sounds like a text book Digidesign move to me, but it's Apple doing the
>price cuts and exclusive deals to undercut the market and sell more Macs
and
>other Apple-partner products. If there were no Mac support from other
>companies (MOTU, RME, Lynx, etc), you could call it "their product, their
>market", but we are comparing operating systems and computers here, so that
>doesn't stand. It may not be illegal (but I believe it is close), but it
is
>hurting consumers.
>
>Regards,
>Dedric
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Why should Apple develop for another platform when it does not benefit them?
I can cop that so long as you're willing to cop that it's ok, for example,
for M$ to do the same with, say Office, just for example.
Would that be OK?
Cheers,
Kim.It's About Time!!
:)
-steve
"Louis Guarino Jr." <kateeba@snet.net> wrote:
>
>Wow! After a
|
|
|
|
| Re: OK, Deej, you talked me into it... OK I figured out the problem-Clip posted [message #93902 is a reply to message #93898] |
Sat, 22 December 2007 22:41 |
|
|
added more RAM to it
bringing it to 4.5GB, and it has room for up to 8. I also have more than
2 terrabytes of HD space hanging off of it. The expandability has been
great.
Granted, about a month after my G5 came out there were faster
Intel/Athlon chips. But it didn't make my G5 quit pulling its weight
around here. :^)
> Gates
> forces you as a business to buy office/OS's through each planned
> obsolescene upgrade.
If you buy into it. Or you could use Open Office, which is what I do
(the NeoOffice version on OSX).
> Jobs tells you to think you're safe from virii as
> an ad campaign and tells you how Mac runs office 'just as well as a PC'.
> but fails to mention it's OLD version of office, years old in fact.
Sometimes the Mac version of Office has been ahead, sometimes the
MSWindows version. Doesn't matter to me because I'm not on that treadmill.
> There are 60 known virii in the wild for Mac, but you won't hear about
> that from Jobs/Apple.
Ooh. 60. Wow. That's what, 1/1000th the amount on MSWindows? ;^)
Haven't seen any here.
> Apple Ads, speaking of....PC's are cold and harsh and only good at
> office apps, 'eh?
Clearly hyperbole. Funny, though.
> Somebody should tell that to all the video and audio
> guys that make wonderful art every single day on a windows PC, because
> they didn't get the memo.
Indeed.
> I will say that iLife and GarageBand are
> pretty cool, though not pro of course.
Yep, GarageBand is cool being for free with the machine, but far short
of Logic.
> I have 2 macs at my avail at
> work, and several PC's. Frankly, they both tick me off from time to time
> but the Win boxes see more use and tick me off a whole lot less.
From what you said below, it sounds like your Macs are pretty old and
not nearly up to date. OSX 10.29? Get 10.3 at least. I'm on 10.4, it's
pretty solid. 10.5 is sitting here, waiting to be installed when the
decks clear enough to get around to it.
> Nothing
> like plugging in a KVM and having your Mac reach an unrecoverable error
> and forced shutdown because it doesn't like the KVM. Every time. But not
> being the latest OS I can't get support for it w/o buying some more
> "apple care", and Belkin had no idea what would cause it, nor my vendor.
Bummer.
> I had been considering a Mini for personal use (with boot camp of
> course), but that kinda gotcha rather cinched the "think I'll pass for
> now" for me. MacOS-x 10.29 on dual procs, and it's a foot prop under my
> desk now. At least it doesn't crash that way and it's more ergonomic for
> my peds, heh... I get a warm fuzzy and smirk when my feet hit it :>
I'll be happy to store it for you. Could probably put it to good use.
The quicksilvers were pretty loud, though. The G5 is much, much quieter,
and the current Intel boxes are also pretty quiet.
> *(*)* Apple is so much faster, Apple is so much more interesting, Apple
> is so much better at.... er, ....
Those whacky marketing types...
> hey, it's the new and improved Apple
> now with INTEL hardware (IE, that's called a PC Steve-O, and no amount
> of backpeddling will cover the fact that you were lying through your
> teeth about how much faster Motorola's I'd-rather-be-in-a-cell-phone
> chips were over INTEL)
For its time the G4 didn't suck. The G5 is still a mighty chip around
here. Keep in mind that the current core 2 duo stuff was not out when
Jobs announced the switch. He switched for the then upcoming processor
road map, which was more attractive from Intel at the time than from
IBM. Turned out to be an OK choice I think, although I have yet to get
one of the Intel Macs.
> and it's so much better than , uh.. running
> windows (can't say PC anymore at this point)!
I think you could always say PC. "Personal computer" fits any of these
boxes.
> Er, wait.. now you can run
> Windows on your Apple! (which I don't have a problem with, in fact I
> applaud that one but don't you think that's rather odd for Apple to say
> bad windows, bad windows.. hey, you can now run windows?)
Since many people are stuck with using MSWindows for specific software,
company policy, etc., it's not so odd for Apple to market to them.
Shocking, maybe. Clever, actually.
> I also give
> major points to that dually quicksilver being WAY cleanly designed
> inside. Superb visual build inside the box. Too bad it's an ergonomic
> foot device now.
Having had both, the G5s are even nicer - with pretty much the same
external case as for the octocore Intel Macs today, although the new
versions have four HD slots and support up to 32GB RAM.
> You talked about MS stealing the macOS software GUI. Ok, where did Apple
> get their code base from for OS-X? Can't see the worm in both apples,
> 'eh? <-yes, that was bad pun #2.... but I am a punny guy!>
The code base for OSX was derived largely from NeXT, the company Steve
Jobs started after been booted out of Apple. I used to work for a NeXT
developer doing documentation and testing. Had a cool NeXT cube. Good
times!
> They screwed you as a clone seller even and still you deny. Horse,
> water, no drinky. You're probably thinking the same thing about the
> majority here. In all seriousness, I'm glad you have enjoyed your
> relationships with Mac, I cannot report the same, unfortunately. I
> absolutely adore my iPOD though, and although iPhone is tre' cool, it's
> not cutting it with me on the tech end so it's off the list of 'to buy'.
I haven't fallen for iPods or iPhones. Yet anyway.
> I also thought that the Cinema Display was about the most beautiful
> display ever as far back as 4~5 years ago. on the overall though, I
> didn't like Apple computer kool-aid any better than MS's kool-aid.
Having spent some time working in development environments on multiple
platforms (not just Apple and Microsoft), I think both of those flavors
of koolaid taste odd. But overall, for the reasons I spelled out in my
other post, Microsoft's koolaid is worse. Apple has actually gotten
better than they were in the 80s/90s, IMO. I was not a fan of OS9 and
before.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
> You're ok in my book man, so don't take any of this all personal or
> anything, it's really not meant that way. I haven't forgotten when I had
> a problem with a Mac you are the first and only dude offered and
> followed through to help me out. Some day I'll get a chance to repay in
> kind.
>
> AA
>
>
> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com <mailto:nobody@ishere.com>> wrote in message
> news:47bf218e$1@linux...
> >
> > For the record, it was what Apple did to the cloners that drove me
> into the
> > ever welcoming arms of Redmond. I couldn't afford Apple hardware, but
> I could
> > afford a Power 603e machine that was my first experience with
> computer audio.
> > Less than a year after that Apple shut down the cloners and I
> realized, 'Hey,
> > these are greedy corporate bastards just like Microsoft. And Windows
> hardware
> > is cheap and I can build my own.' Which lead me to a 400 Mhz Celeron
> + Paris,
> > and the rest is (grim, money losing, book publishing) history.
> >
> > Your story is one version. Another is that Power was a smart,
> talented, agile
> > hardware vendor who was beating the daylights out of Apple because
> they were
> > everything Apple had long since ceased to be--entrepreneurial and
> customer
> > oriented.
> >
> > TCB
> >
> > "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com <mailto:excelsm@hotmail.com>>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>"Deej" <noway@jose.net <mailto:noway@jose.net>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com <mailto:excelsm@hotmail.com>>
> wrote in message
> >>>news:47bba823$1@linux...
> >>>>
> >>>> Ok, can you give me a legitimate example of Apple buying market share?
> >> I
> >>>
> >>>How about the time the pulled the OS licensing from PowerComputing and
> > UMaxx
> >>
> >>>and closed two entire companies and threw all those folks out of work.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Deej since you mentioned PowerComputing,there are a few things that
> should
> >>be noted. As I've said, the cloners ate in to Apple's sales. The clones
> >>advertised mainly in Mac publications to Mac users, If they had
> advertised
> >>in PC publications and did other forms of advertising to non Mac
> users they
> >>would have grown the market. They didn't, they cherry picked Apple
> sales.
> >> One such famous incident was when PowerComputing was directly competing
> >>with Apple by selling 3000 clones to Apple's long time customer Lockheed
> >>Martin, that didn't go over to well. PowerComputing also worked a deal
> > with
> >>IBM to get the fastest PowerPC processors before Apple could, this
> further
> >>cost Apple sales.
> >>
> >>Steve Jobs went to all the cloners and tried to renegotiate the licensing
> >>prices, the cloners wouldn't hear of it, so Apple did not renew the
> licensing
> >>with Mac OS 8. Apple did not pull the licensing. The cloners could
> still
> >>build systems and ship them with Mac OS 7.6 installed, and bundled OS 8,
> >>they chose not to. PowerComputing announced after that, that they were
> > going
> >>to start building PCs, which I think they did for a short time. In the
> > end,
> >>Apple bought out PowerComputing for 100 million dollars in Apple stock.
> >
> >>I think that was pretty generous of Apple. I believe it was up to Kahng
> >>to take care of his workers from there.
> >>
> >>As far as UMAX, they continued on for years building scanners and other
> > products
> >>as they did before they made clones.
> >When Shake was dropped to $500, it was also discontinued. That was a
fire sale for a product that was not going to get more development. Key
features from Shake have already made their way into Motion.
When Apple bought Logic, they were struggling to get audio apps moved
over to the then new operating system, OSX. This was a big transition
period for Apple, a risky period and a critical time to build critical mass.
Had they not bought Logic it may have taken much longer to get decent
audio apps onto OSX because on the one hand, Mac developers and users
were still clinging to OS9. On the other hand, audio development was
starting to pick up on MSWindows. Maybe it was a smart move on Apple's
part to get the ball rolling.
After the more recent price drop for Logic Studio, it still costs more
than Digital Performer, although I agree that the bundled synths make
Logic a very good deal right now, and I can see how some companies may
be threatened by that.
BTW, I use Logic with a MOTU interface. No one is forcing me to buy the
Apogee.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
Dedric Terry wrote:
> On 2/22/08 8:36 PM, in article 47bf86b2$1@linux, "James McCloskey"
> <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> What I do expect you to share is the basic idea that NEITHER of them are
>>> perfect and NEITHER of them are COMPLETELY evil. They are both a mix.
>>> Sometimes
>>> they see a competitor and use their power to club them over the head to
>> the
>>> detriment of all of us. Both of them do it. One has more ability to do it
>>> than the other.
>>>
>> Can you give me an example of Apple doing this?
>
> How about more than one:
>
> 1) Shake is a $9900 application in 1999 ($3900 render only)
> 2) Apply buys it, drops the price a couple of times (OSX version less than
> other versions), offering free double licenses for users upgrading to OSX.
> 3) Apple discontinues Windows support for it.
> 4) Fast forward to 2003, Shake is still $2999 for both OSX and Linux.
> 5) Apple drops the OSX version price to $499. Linux version remains $2999.
>
> See more here for the price change details and decide for yourself:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shake_(software)
>
> Just my opinion, but anytime an app is dropped from $3k to $500, selling
> software as a profitable product isn't the goal.
>
>
> Next:
> 1) Apple buys Emagic (there's a song in this one somewhere...;-)
> 2) Drops PC support for Logic promptly.
> 3) Slow development ensues...then finally core audio appears
> 4) Apple signs exclusive deal with Apogee for Symphony, Ensemble, etc for
> Logic/Mac only
> 5) Symphony reports lower latency and better performance than other apps
> under core audio
> 6) Speculation (no, I can't prove it - yet) is that Apple gave Apogee lower
> level access to core audio that isn't in the SDK, thereby giving the
> Apogee/Logic combo a significant edge over Digital Performer, Nuendo/Cubase,
> RME, MOTU, Digidesign, etc.
> 7) Apple drops the price of Logic to $500, with additional software/etc
> thrown in (imho, this is below average market value for a DAW software and
> most likely a loss leader).
> 8) Why? To sell Macs and Apogee interfaces. Logic is priced too low to be
> a profit center - it's just a marketing tool now to expand the Mac's
> position in consumer, prosumer, hobby, and beginner, lower end musician
> markets, to the detriment of other 3rd party companies also developing for
> the platform.
>
> In both cases, Apple is using applications to push their hardware, even
> though there are competing applications, and the Microsoft argument would
> suggest that using applications and exclusivity of them, and hardware, is a
> conflict of interest for an operating system developer, much less a computer
> builder.
>
> Just my .02 - can't prove it any more than anyone can *prove* Microsoft is
> evil. I don't like MS, but Apple isn't making friends in my end of the pro
> audio world - just putting this in perspective. Btw, I'm not the only one
> with this supposition - there are some other well respected audio people in
> agreement.
>
> Btw - didn't post this to get deeper into an argument - just since you asked
> for an example, and I had read the same supposition of Apple's move with
> core audio fr
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Thu May 07 21:08:13 PDT 2026
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.38431 seconds
|
The PARIS Forums
Search
Help
Members
Register
Login
Home
