Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Arrrgggghhhh!!!!!!!!!!! CUBASE 4 MUST DIE!!!!!!!!
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| Re: Arrrgggghhhh!!!!!!!!!!! CUBASE 4 MUST DIE!!!!!!!! [message #87912 is a reply to message #87905] |
Tue, 10 July 2007 22:09   |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
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Senior Member |
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r />
there with them on 9/11, 9/12, 9/13 etc., and tells the story in painful
detail in his book Against All Enemies.
4. I'm sick of hearing people talk about how it's a mistake to think
Bush is not intelligent, that beneath that lack of eloquence is a shrewd
leader. Bah. The man has worse problems than language mangling. He
clearly has reasoning problems, shows no evidence of conscience, and
apparently has learning disabilities. My long distance diagnosis is
alcoholic encephalopathy, but there may be some other substance abuse damage
as well. But to put it simply, we have an evil moron for a president.
5. Why evil? Well, how 'bout the hypocrisy of calling oneself a
Christian, talking about a personal relationship with Jesus/God, and then
believing it's OK to decimate whole populations for one's personal gain.
That just don't sound none too Christian to me.
6. Even if we could stop Bush and his band of Bushies right now, today,
how many decades is it going to take to undo the damage? Will the USA ever
again be the "Shining City on the Hill?" I hope so.
Wilson, McKinley, Buchanan, and van Buren may have been incompetent
and/or corrupt, but none had the ability that the Bush administration has to
make this planet unliveable.
Bush and his whole greedy, lying crew belong in jail.
And what did you do on YOUR summer vacation? :)
S
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:46e0481a$1@linux...
>
> I still can't believe anyone considers GW to be the worst president ever.
> Perhaps the most venal or smallest minded, but he's nowhere near our worst
> ever. Wilson, McKinley, Buchanan, and van Buren were all FAR worse
> presidents
> regardless of your individual politics.
>
> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>
>>With the Worst President Ever I don't think my confidence can go any
>>lower.
>> In fact, I'm sure of it and with both dems and repubs sucking so bad it's
>>a trifecta in play ! Go fark !
>They're free!! OR make a donation..
"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>LaMont,
>If they sound half as good as they look they're worth the money.
>T.
>
>
> "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:46e078f0$1@linux...
>
> http://antress.myweb.hinet.net/
>
> Hase anyone seenthese new free plugins? The Graphics are Hot!! I'm =
>getting
> ready to check them out.. Let me know what you all think..MAN!!!
>
>
>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
>http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><HTML><HEAD>
><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR>
><STYLE></STYLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>LaMont,</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If they sound half as good as they look
=
>they're=20
>worth the money.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>T.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV> </DIV>
><BLOCKQUOTE=20
>style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> <DIV>"LaMont" <<A =
>href=3D"mailto:jjdpro@gmail.com">jjdpro@gmail.com</A>>=20
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| Re: Arrrgggghhhh!!!!!!!!!!! CUBASE 4 MUST DIE!!!!!!!! [message #87918 is a reply to message #87912] |
Tue, 10 July 2007 22:27 |
DJ
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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they dropped
VST support in some of their software, but you still have other choices on
a Mac to use VSTs, including your favorites from Steinberg. Many new plugin
development companies showed up because the new AU format created new opportunities
for start ups. It's all good.
By the way, read this: http://www.voxengo.com/press/114/
>
>On 9/7/07 9:16 AM, in article 46e16b5e$1@linux, "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>> Okay fam, I just read a very interesting article in July's 07 SOS (Sound
On
>> Sound -What The Devlopers Think) about the state of MS Vista AND is it
time
>> for (Them DAW manufactuers) to go 64 bit.
>>
>> Well, the article featured most of the heavey hitters in the industry
(RME,
>> M-Audio, Native Instruments, Steingberg, Cakewalk, Lynx .
>>
>> As far as 64 bit in the DAW most , except Cakewalk, feels that it's not
>> needed.
>> But, you get the feeling that they say this because of the work involved.
>> Secondly, They're not impreesed(except Cakewalk) with Microsoft's new
built-in
>> audio hooks (WaveRT).. RME stated thay would stay with ASIO, and Not Adopt
>> the Vista standard..
>>
>> OK. Rant:
>> When Apple completly re-coded their OS witha NEW Audio engine standard
>> AUDIO-Units.
>> At that time, ASIO, WMD & MAS where the NAtive standards, but Apple went
>> their own way. So what did the Developers do...They started coding their
>> apps, plugins, audio interfaces with Auduo-Unit drivers.
>>
>> Now, that Microsoft is proposing the same thing, these very same companies
>> are balking. Why? Even with Lower latency and less pull on the CPU,like
>> Apple's
>> Audio Unit design, their balking.
>>
>> Next point:
>> To all of those who state the only useful purpose for 64 bit is to break
>> the 4 gig memory limitation (for Samplers) in Bull!
>>
>> The problem is that the DAWS are all using 32 bit coding. #2 bit apps
on
>> a 64 bit os and processor will only get you marginal gains...But, A True
>> 64 DAW/App using a 64 bit CPU,64 bit plugins
>> we we see astouding gains in performance.
>>
>> I'll stop now. But, we need to let the manufacturers know (what they already
>> know) and that is the Windows train is moving and even if Vista is not
the
>> OS, the Next version will be the right one and it will be 64 bit.. Companies
>> like RME & Steinbergs will get left behind if they don't start moving
in
>> that 64 bit direction).
>>
>> To may of us have Pre-Invested in 64 bit CPUs with the promise of 64 bit
>> processing. Apple will be there soon with OS-x 64 with a newly re-wriiten
>> version of Logic (64 bit). Digi and Motu will be on the 64 bit train as
>> well..Chooo
>> chooooc choo...
>>
>>
>Thanks Paul, I'll make a note of that for next time.
>Only negative - a tad light on the cowbell. See if you can
> bring that up in the mix, please.
>
> - Paul Artola
> Ellicott City, MarylandLaMont, I think your getting a bit of a story. The developers are all working
on it, they have to. The only way they can keep selling you software is
whiz bang wow factor, and trust me, they will claim 64bit is the shit. They
just want you to think their not interested, so you keep buying their current
offerings. Just wait, they will have huge ad campaigns when they are ready
to release native 64bit software. They will point out, that with the new
high capacity hard drives, 64bit files are not a problem anymore either.
They'll be calling it the new pro standard. It's all coming, they got to
sell you the next big thing. When the time is right, they will make you
feel that if you don't jump on the 64bit band wagon you will totally be left
behind.
"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Okay fam, I just read a very interesting article in July's 07 SOS (Sound
On
>Sound -What The Devlopers Think) about the state of MS Vista AND is it time
>for (Them DAW manufactuers) to go 64 bit.
>
>Well, the article featured most of the heavey hitters in the industry (RME,
>M-Audio, Native Instruments, Steingberg, Cakewalk, Lynx .
>
>As far as 64 bit in the DAW most , except Cakewalk, feels that it's not
needed.
>But, you get the feeling that they say this because of the work involved.
> Secondly, They're not impreesed(except Cakewalk) with Microsoft's new built-in
>audio hooks (WaveRT).. RME stated thay would stay with ASIO, and Not Adopt
>the Vista standard..
>
>OK. Rant:
>When Apple completly re-coded their OS witha NEW Audio engine standard AUDIO-Units.
>At that time, ASIO, WMD & MAS where the NAtive standards, but Apple went
>their own way. So what did the Developers do...They started coding their
>apps, plugins, audio interfaces with Auduo-Unit drivers.
>
>Now, that Microsoft is proposing the same thing, these very same companies
>are balking. Why? Even
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| Re: Arrrgggghhhh!!!!!!!!!!! CUBASE 4 MUST DIE!!!!!!!! [message #87919 is a reply to message #87912] |
Tue, 10 July 2007 22:29 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
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Senior Member |
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with Lower latency and less pull on the CPU,like
Apple's
>Audio Unit design, their balking.
>
>Next point:
>To all of those who state the only useful purpose for 64 bit is to break
>the 4 gig memory limitation (for Samplers) in Bull!
>
>The problem is that the DAWS are all using 32 bit coding. #2 bit apps on
>a 64 bit os and processor will only get you marginal gains...But, A True
>64 DAW/App using a 64 bit CPU,64 bit plugins
>we we see astouding gains in performance.
>
>I'll stop now. But, we need to let the manufacturers know (what they already
>know) and that is the Windows train is moving and even if Vista is not the
>OS, the Next version will be the right one and it will be 64 bit.. Companies
>like RME & Steinbergs will get left behind if they don't start moving in
>that 64 bit direction).
>
>To may of us have Pre-Invested in 64 bit CPUs with the promise of 64 bit
>processing. Apple will be there soon with OS-x 64 with a newly re-wriiten
>version of Logic (64 bit). Digi and Motu will be on the 64 bit train as
well..Chooo
>chooooc choo...
>
>James I agree with you with. That's why it's so darm irritating to hear some
these developers take on 64 bit.
Dedric, i agree with some of your points as well, however I don;t that we
should let the developers dictate the pro audio market. They(should work)
hard with the OS vendors.
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>LaMont, I think your getting a bit of a story. The developers are all
working
>on it, they have to. The only way they can keep selling you software is
>whiz bang wow factor, and trust me, they will claim 64bit is the shit.
They
>just want you to think their not interested, so you keep buying their current
>offerings. Just wait, they will have huge ad campaigns when they are ready
>to release native 64bit software. They will point out, that with the new
>high capacity hard drives, 64bit files are not a problem anymore either.
> They'll be calling it the new pro standard. It's all coming, they got
to
>sell you the next big thing. When the time is right, they will make you
>feel that if you don't jump on the 64bit band wagon you will totally be
left
>behind.
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Okay fam, I just read a very interesting article in July's 07 SOS (Sound
>On
>>Sound -What The Devlopers Think) about the state of MS Vista AND is it
time
>>for (Them DAW manufactuers) to go 64 bit.
>>
>>Well, the article featured most of the heavey hitters in the industry (RME,
>>M-Audio, Native Instruments, Steingberg, Cakewalk, Lynx .
>>
>>As far as 64 bit in the DAW most , except Cakewalk, feels that it's not
>needed.
>>But, you get the feeling that they say this because of the work involved.
>> Secondly, They're not impreesed(except Cakewalk) with Microsoft's new
built-in
>>audio hooks (WaveRT).. RME stated thay would stay with ASIO, and Not Adopt
>>the Vista standard..
>>
>>OK. Rant:
>>When Apple completly re-coded their OS witha NEW Audio engine standard
AUDIO-Units.
>>At that time, ASIO, WMD & MAS where the NAtive standards, but Apple went
>>their own way. So what did the Developers do...They started coding their
>>apps, plugins, audio interfaces with Auduo-Unit drivers.
>>
>>Now, that Microsoft is proposing the same thing, these very same companies
>>are balking. Why? Even with Lower latency and less pull on the CPU,like
>Apple's
>>Audio Unit design, their balking.
>>
>>Next point:
>>To all of those who state the only useful purpose for 64 bit is to break
>>the 4 gig memory limitation (for Samplers) in Bull!
>>
>>The problem is that the DAWS are all using 32 bit coding. #2 bit apps
on
>>a 64 bit os and processor will only get you marginal gains...But, A True
>>64 DAW/App using a 64 bit CPU,64 bit plugins
>>we we see astouding gains in performance.
>>
>>I'll stop now. But, we need to let the manufacturers know (what they already
>>know) and that is the Windows train is moving and even if Vista is not
the
>>OS, the Next version will be the right one and it will be 64 bit.. Companies
>>like RME & Steinbergs will get left behind if they don't start moving in
>>that 64 bit direction).
>>
>>To may of us have Pre-Invested in 64 bit CPUs with the promise of 64 bit
>>processing. Apple will be there soon with OS-x 64 with a newly re-wriiten
>>version of Logic (64 bit). Digi and Motu will be on the 64 bit train as
>well..Chooo
>>chooooc choo...
>>
>>
>Dedric Terry wrote:
(good insights deleted so I can nit pick the rest ;^)
> 3 - Apple hasn't really worked for, or to the advantage of DAW/audio
> developers, except their own (Final Cut Pro and iTunes/QT/iLife being their
> main interests here, with Logic running a distant 5th, or 10th). Core audio
> is likely a 30% technical decision (easier to implement than someone else's
> protocol), and 70% product control - what you develop yourself, you can
> market, control and use to differentiate your product.
I would say Core Audio has worked to the advantage of DAW users.
Everything works and works together. Latency is low. You can cascade
different IO boxes from different companies as a single large IO.
Can't find a reason to criticize it. And I wouldn't leave out the main
reason for Core Audio: Having low latency, high performance audio
capabilities integrated into the OS.
Your reasons are valid, they just overlook the main reason - and yours
are icing on the cake.
ASIO is perfectly
> fast, and stable on WinXP, but it's Steinberg's protocol, not A
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| Re: Arrrgggghhhh!!!!!!!!!!! CUBASE 4 MUST DIE!!!!!!!! [message #87932 is a reply to message #87920] |
Wed, 11 July 2007 07:08 |
DJ
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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ying it to another studio for work, previews, transfers, etc.
>
>Obviously, there is no simple alternative to the current crop of mainstream
>OSs for my audio work, and in reality, OSX and XP probably don't limit us
>all that much (other than a few areas here and there). Ubuntu looks cool,
>but there is so much software and hardware involved that moving to a Linux
>solution would really take a monumental leap to become realistic.
>
>Regards,
>Dedric
>
>On 9/7/07 2:42 PM, in article 46e1b7c7$1@linux, "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>> Thad, you are talkign about 2 different market segments. The 'Bedroom"
type
>> who 48 tracks is more than enough..Then there are the power users like
myself
>> where are song tracking session can reach upwards to 90 plus (before editing)
>> with power hungry plugins, and low latency for those running ITB.
>>
>> All in all, the power "Native" daw user does not want to go over to HD-TDM.
>> They want it all(Power) natively. They wan t Pro Tools Power in Natively..
>>
>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
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| Re: Arrrgggghhhh!!!!!!!!!!! CUBASE 4 MUST DIE!!!!!!!! [message #87935 is a reply to message #87912] |
Wed, 11 July 2007 07:25 |
DJ
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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lly about Vista and the article in which few developers
>>>showed any enthusiasm for it, and in several cases almost outright
>>>rejection. I don't blame them. OS developers really don't, and sadly,
>>>can't put the interests of professional audio users at the forefront.
>Their
>>>first customers are consumers.
>>>
>>>Core audio is cool (great compared to other OS-embedded audio protocols,
>>>unless we bring BeOS back) and Apple seems to have done a respectable
job
>>by
>>>including such core media hooks in the OS (core animation too). However,
>>>the point is how much a full time professional can or should really trust
>>>the performance of their DAW to a company that makes 10x selling phones,
>>or
>>>operating systems (Apple or MS). Of course that's a paradox - we have
>no
>>>choice.
>>>
>>>Truly Apple has made 100x the effort vs. MS in supporting the pro
>>>audio/video market (well, 100 x 0 would be 0, but you get the point ;-).
>>>The point was that it wasn't developed for Steinberg's best interests,
>or
>>>Digidesign's, or MOTU's (where is MAS?), but Apple's. Logic was the first
>>>to support OSX because it was an Apple product, Jamie. Does Apple really
>>>release full SDKs to 3rd parties when they start developing their apps
>for
>>>that new design, or do they wait until they release their app, then forward
>>>the SDKs... ;-)
>>>
>>>Just don't assume that because I include Apple in a general discussion
>that
>>>I'm bashing Macs. Let's also not poo poo Steinberg just because ASIO
and
>>>VST weren't developed by Apple. They really did make native DAWs a reality
>>>(moreso than Emagic or MOTU if we look at the life of ASIO and VST vs.
>MAS
>>>or whatever Emagic's shortlived driver was called - I should remember...).
>>>Steinberg is far from perfect, but that doesn't make Apple the sudden
>>>defender of the pro audio world by default. ;-)
>>>
>>>If you are a Mac audio user (or PC user facing the sad reality that is
>>>Vista), fear the iPhone.... fear Garageband.... ;-)
>>>
>>>Ideally we really need an OS developed "for" audio/video alone, not home
>>>movies, not downloading mp3s, not posting pics of the family vacation.
>
>>But
>>>that opens up a whole other can of worms. I guess the worms we have are
>>as
>>>good as it gets, at least until they are all used up trying to catch bigger
>>>fish.
>>>
>>>James - I think your link supports my comment that Vista sucks (if Aleksey,
>>>who was never going to port to OSX, now is, things are looking grim for
>>MS
>>>and PC DAW users...). ;-)) (yes, I said it, and yes I believe it - it
looks
>>>cool, but ... well I'll save the list for another day). I'm just hoping
>>>Nuendo 4 rocks on the Mac, so at least I have a backup. (I still think
>>it
>>>sucks that with Macs I have to buy average hardware at premium prices
when
>>I
>>>could build a much more robust, higher end DAW for 20-30% less).
>>>
>>>Oh, btw - in that link Aleksey talks about fixing a /3GB switch bug -
that
>>>was yours truly that found that bug (cool of Aleksey to fix it so quickly;
>>>not so cool of MS to make Vista the next stop in the roadmap to 64 bit
>and
>>>where we would have no more need for it).
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Dedric
>>>
>>>On 9/7/07 10:40 AM, in article 46e17f14$1@linux, "James McCloskey"
>>><excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>>> I read the article a while back, and I think there are multiple sides
>>to
>>>>> this:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1 - Vista isn't great for low latency audio. WaveRT is still, afaik,
>>just
>>>> a
>>>>> marketing feature, not proven in reality for pro audio.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2 - Cakewalk has staked their marketing on 64-bit in order to attempt
>>to
>>>>> separate themselves from the market. Reality is (or so it seems from
>>tests
>>>>> I've seen), there is little advantage for the audio engine, and for
>the
>>>> OS,
>>>>> memory access is the main advantage. 64-bit apps in a 64-bit OS can
>>gain
>>>>> some performance gains, but so far that appears to be minimal).
>>>>>
>>>>> 3 - Apple hasn't really worked for, or to the advantage of DAW/audio
>>>>> developers, except their own (Final Cut Pro and iTunes/QT/iLife being
>>their
>>>>> main interests here, with Logic running a distant 5th, or 10th). Core
>>audio
>>>>> is likely a 30% technical decision (easier to implement than someone
>>else's
>>>>> protocol), and 70% product control - what you develop yourself, you
>can
>>>>> market, control and use to differentiate your product. ASIO is perfectly
>>>>> fast, and stable on WinXP, but it's Steinberg's protocol, not Apple's.
>>>> For
>>>>> example, direct monitoring still isn't supported by most hardware or
>>>>> software for OSX, and was questionable for core audio (whether this
>has
>>>> been
>>>>> slow to develop, or slow to release the SDK for, I don't know) - even
>>Logic
>>>>> doesn't have it. Apple just isn't interested in supporti
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| Re: Arrrgggghhhh!!!!!!!!!!! CUBASE 4 MUST DIE!!!!!!!! [message #87943 is a reply to message #87939] |
Wed, 11 July 2007 11:03 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
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With Vista,
>VST, ASIO, WDM all still work, so developers aren't buying Microsoft's pitch
>to move to their own internal driver/protocol. I believe at least one of
>the developers in that article expressed reservations over trusting their
>product to a protocol (WaveRT) that was held by an OS developer that had
no
>direct interest in professional audio (sound familiar now? They've learned
>from the Apple experience, and past Microsoft experience - DirectX for one).
>
>I think the moral of the story is that pro audio is best handled by
>developers in that market, not companies more interested in selling
>operating systems, home computers, and/or iToys.
>
>Regards,
>Dedric
Back around 1990 I took a computer class, the instructor told the class that
Apple computers were toys with their stupid cartoon icons. He told the class
that the mouse was dumb, that you could get around a computer faster with
a keyboard. He said that real men used real computers, and real computers
used command lines, not cart
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| Re: Arrrgggghhhh!!!!!!!!!!! CUBASE 4 MUST DIE!!!!!!!! [message #87958 is a reply to message #87932] |
Wed, 11 July 2007 14:42 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
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Senior Member |
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ducer friends I work with that have used it, several times...), but the
service I got from Staples/HP the one time I had to use it, was, however
surprisingly, much better and way faster - can't beat 20 minutes from dead
PC to new one that is twice as fast, not a refurb, no bench test, no
shipping costs - that rivals golden support packages from high tech
companies, esp. considering that Staples is only 300 yds from my office ;-).
DedricDedric Terry wrote:
> Btw, I'm doing post for a film, several corporate docs (international
> clients, not local stuff), all in Nuendo - works perfectly. I wouldn't say
> a native DAW is optimal for a live 30-40 input tracking session, with
> monitor feeds to musicians, but I know guys doing it daily.
Sounds like you're keeping busy with some cool projects. Congrats!
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.comDon't quite know why you can't get a thumb drive to work with Vista.
All mine do, and they're all generic, largest is 4gb, but the usb 40 gb
notebook drive works perfectly as well.--
Martin Harrington
Lend An Ear Sound
Sydney, Australia
0414 913 247It's working now???.........awwww......c'mon....let me help you fix it.
;o)
"Chris Lang" <yo@yo.yo> wrote in message news:46e21db9$1@linux...
>
> Nevermind. Got it.
>
> "Chris Lang" <yo@yo.yo> wrote:
>>
>>I guess I'm making progress. any ideas are welcome...
>>
>>
>>"Chris Lang" <
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| Re: Arrrgggghhhh!!!!!!!!!!! CUBASE 4 MUST DIE!!!!!!!! [message #88106 is a reply to message #88100] |
Sun, 15 July 2007 05:33 |
John [1]
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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