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| Re: OT: the magic of a dog and his master [message #76900 is a reply to message #76897] |
Sat, 09 December 2006 23:29   |
Tom Bruhl
Messages: 1368
Registered: June 2007
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Senior Member |
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ase Mac quadra 8400av, and a MacTel 9600(dual processor)
6 slots unit tower.
From there, I have purchased a G4-dual 500( running DPpro & Logic Audio 6.
(I still have that machine).
1995-1996-Supported, Installed Mac 9500s(3) @ Ford . They were used as their
Lotus Domino/Notes Servers.
While @ GM & Ford during the mac years, I can tell you stories all day and
night about their performance. I was a Mac Snob in the worst way.
It was until both we went to windows based machines (gateways&Compaqs @Dells)
did we (IT crew) noticed (in disbelief) that the PC workstations and Servers
were Blazing!!!
Before, with the macs we used the built-in Apple Talk for networking and
file sharing. Ho humm...Slow, but it worked. Security was a big issue there.
Well, when we start implementing (1989-90) Novell Netware into certain work
groups (GMAC), again the WoW!! factor!! Blazing performance even with some
Macs thrown on the novell network. BUT, mac's Apple Talk would reak Holly
havoc on the Novell network,and thus workarounds had to used .. After a while,
the entire business community waited for Apple to fix their Apple-Talk-IP
problems, so Macs could play nice on a Novell Network,But apple just pretty
much thumbed their noses..
So, we (GM)dropped Apples Macs, and went Windows based. And so did most of
the Big Three and all Tier 1,2, & three vendors.
The moral to that story is: You don't us what we want and can have (We) Corporations
Tell you what we want.. You either deliver or we're moving on..
And so did DTE: Who were mac based up until 1996. Same scenario as above
but I almost forgot about apple's Very Poor Customer service.
back in days , Apple treated their customers Big and small like a third world
nations. Put plainly, their customer server sucked big time. Then to add
insult to injury, they Apple) would drop support for a given Mac while still
(supposedly) under warranty. Calls were not returned, promises broken.. Apples
dealing with big business was a disaster..
That's were Dell came in riding on his shining horse. back then(90's) Dell
built- a great PC with to this day , unheard of customer support.
The G4:
The G4 was OK if you had programmers that would code for the Altivec engine.
If the app was not optimized for the Altivec, then it was low on the food
chain as compared to a AMD K2, Athlon,Athlon XP PIII, P4. There were not
That many Mac apps Optimized or coded for the Altivec. NoT even Paris. Edmund
once stated that, re-coding most apps for the altivec would be too cost prohibitive
and very time consuming..
So, yes on paperthe G4 was cool, but it neverlived up to it's potential.
James, I call then as I see them. I was @ the the Digidesign /Emagic pony
show back in 1995 where they were showing Logic Audio 3.0 on the mac and
the newly windows version. The Emagic and Digi guys were just snikering
away about how they really never tested the perormance on the windows version,and
pretty much stated that it was best if we all went witha mac.. Well.. They
into their presentation and started to do side by side Logic routines on
both version of Logic.
Well, to their disbelief, the Windos based version of Logic was finnishing
all of their task much faster than the Mac. Even the Digi guys were astounded.
The Emagic guys were just as stunned. In every side by side they did, the
PC ran cirles around the supposedly superior mac . Well, needless to say,
after that pony was over, The Southfield Guitar Center sold 8 copies of Logic
Audio Windows (Including me)..ZERO copies of the Mac version..
Back to macs don't need support: Dude aare you kidding!!! The Mac is just
a Personal Computer. Just like we support SGI(Unix) Sun Solaris PC's (Unix)
etc.. All Personal computers need IT support. Do you think everybody who
works a 9-5 knows about an operating system.??
Just ask Thad if his comany needs an IT guy/Gal in a Mac centric company..Are
you kidding..
Hell, one of the new requirements of the modern Recording Engineer is to
have some IT skills (Networking, Building, repair). I work in a studio which
has 4 Macs..(2 -G5s, 2 G4(dual877). Are you kidding..!!! Are you Kidding
me. If I was not around to either (Upgrade, apply Mac OS-X tweaks, Hardware
upgrades,).. Man, because of the volume of work those formentioned macs,
even on PT -HD3, those mac will crash..And crash Hard..
Oh, and let's not forget about how to recover froma mac crash.Expecially
on OS9...You had to reload the entire OS. How Stupid is that!!??? At least
with Windows, you can find the offending file (DLL) and patch in a fix or
runa repair utility..
By the way: AMD was Apples first choice, until Intel came with the Don King
paper bag of Cash to go with their chip..And, AMD is still on the Apple table
for thier X-servers and other new products..
Steve Jobs is the 21st century PT Barnum. He say lies, you all believe with
spew hook line and sinker. You mac guys/Gals have had this "walking on water"
feeling for a long time, and when windows was a viable option for pro-audio,
we we not to question the mac so- called superiority.
But, that all changed when Win 95 came out.. Yeah yeah..You say ripp off..But,
I say It was faster, and better than My Mac OS8/9. Then every smart people
start performing tweeks that help Windows achieve it's still stellar DAW
performance.
Trust me, If Mac had 90 percent of Personal computing market, there 2 would
be certified Apple enginners, Just like there are Lotus, Cisco, Netware,
Unix and other non windows professional IT certifications..
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>LaMont I love ya man, but I gotta call you out on this one. The G4 you
work
>on is a 867Mhz right? That machine is from 2001! That's a six year old
>machine your talking about being slow!!!! Check it out at www.apple-history.com
>
>You conveniently remember things the way you want to. When Apple announced
>that they had the fastest personal computer on the planet, they did. That
>was the truth, that's the fact, if it wasn't, Intel, AMD, Dell, Gateway,
>HP, and every other other PC manufacture would have sued Apple and won!!!!!
> Now might be a good time for you to file a suit against Apple if you think
>they misrepresented a product they sold you. However, I think you would
>find that claim would be frivolous. Computer processors through out history
>have quickly leapfrogged each other in processing power. For a time the
>were the fastest. The testing was done independently. The Mac bashing
PC
>zealots spread the lie that the tests were fixed.
>
>The G4 was a good processor, it was noted in the industry for being a work
>horse. The G4 was fast in it's time, in computer years, that was a long
>time ago. Your still complaining about it, and calling Steve Jobs a lier.
> Of corse every company uses marketing spin, Jobs doesn't lie. And at least
>Apple doesn't steal the technology and call it their own. Once again the
>G4 had a different architecture than the Pentium chips. The G4 had 8 data
>pipelines going in and out of the chip. The P4 had 2. The G4 had way more
>cache on board than the P4 did, in some cases more than 4 times as much.
> The G4 would typically compete toe to toe with a P4 with twice the clock
>speed.
>
> Apple, AMD. IBM and Motorola, started calling Intel out on "The MHz Myth".
> Clock speed no longer was the only determining factor in computing speed,
>system and processor architecture ruled the day, thus AMD's equal to a P4
>XX GHz labeling on there processors. I still use my G4 1.25 MHz and I can
>tell you from experience, it is faster than my p4 2.4 and 2.8 prescott dual
>threaded with faster bussing.
>
>So you say that the G5 were slow. In there time, they weren't and they're
>still not slow! But you constantly say they are, and call Steve Jobs a
lier.
> Back when the G5 came out it was #3 in the world! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLujLtgBJC0&mode=related& amp;search=
> The G5 is not a slow computer. Apple uses independent testing laboratories.
> It just more anti Mac bashing on your part.
>
>You say that because Apple moved to Intel it proves that you were right
all
>along, not even close! When Apple Dumped the Mac cloning, motorola was
pissed.
> I know first hand, they told me. They also told me they were going to
get
>Apple back because they had a 90 million dollar charge off. They stalled
>Apple on G4 processor shipments and intentionally slowed the processor speed
>jumps.
>
>Apple turned to IBM. When Jobs announced the G5 for the first time, he
stated
>in the keynote that they would be at 3 GHz with in a year, and the road
map
>looked great. That was IBMs road map. IBM couldn't deliver!!!! Two years
>later Apple was at 2.7GHz, and not the newer generation G5s. The G5 was
>too hot! Apple even turned to Delphi automotive to develop a cooling system.
> They had no way of putting the G5 in a laptop. So they went with one of
>Apples contingency plans they had been working on for five years, Intel!
> Intel had a new generation of processors coming out, that were faster,
cooler
>and
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| Re: OT: the magic of a dog and his master [message #76903 is a reply to message #76900] |
Sun, 10 December 2006 04:46 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
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Senior Member |
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;:)
>>
>>
>>
>>"Ted Gerber" <tedgerber@rogers.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>I have never entered into any computer platform discussion pro or con
>>>in this newsgroup. I have my own preferences having worked on both, but
>>I'm
>>>not pushing my views on anyone else, except over beers at the local pub
>>with
>>>friends who are ready, willing and able. (As an aside, they are 1. Always
>>>vehemont, and 2. Without any actual real world experience on one of the
>>>platforms in question).
>>>
>>>I have to say that I am amazed by the venom that spews whenever someone
>>>points to something Mac. It seems irrational to me. As if Steve Jobs personally
>>>injured some on this group. Why do we worry so much about things we have
>>>no
>>>control over? If someone points out a new plug, or a new amp, or instrument,
>>>things usually don't get personal. The recent donnybrook over Politics,
>>Religion
>>>and
>>>War is regrettable but not surprising. But somebody pointing to a new
product
>>>from a computer co and getting sarcasm, disgust, resentment and
>>>mockery just makes no sense.
>>>
>>>Ted
>>>
>>>
>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Well Martin, you can call me a Mac zealot, but it's not exactly true.
>
>>Unlike
>>>>you, I use and own both PCs and Macs. I actually use my PCs on a regular
>>>>basis. I've used PCs longer than I've used Macs, by about ten years.
>
>>I've
>>>>been a licensed and authorized computer dealer. I've bought, sold, and
>>>built
>>>>many PCs
>>>>
>>>>I think windows XP is a great improvement over MS's past operating systems.
>>>> I wish there was a feature or two in Mac OSX that Windows XP has, but
>>that's
>>>>where it ends. I prefer Mac OSX to Windows because Windows machines
are
>>>>a major PITA to deal with.
>>>>
>>>>There are many other reasons why I don't like MS, one of which is all
>the
>>>>stuff they have ripped off from Apple. It's funny when people say MS/PC
>>>>stuff is great and anything Apple sucks, when MS stole it from Apple.
>
>>Some
>>>>recent examples are, Media player, Vista, and Zune. MS just announced
>>at
>>>>CES, that they are going to come out with set top boxes that are like
>the
>>>>Apple TV box. MS/Sony's will be round instead of square, but what color?
>>>> Gloss white like the apple products! It's the same thing. Hey, may
>be
>>>>MS's branded products will be shit brown like the LG products. LOL!
>>>>
>>>>I mention new products to give people here a heads up here. I have mention
>>>>all kinds of products including PC only products. It's the Mac bashing!
>>>> You can't mention any thing Mac or Apple without some bashing here.
>It's
>>>>always the same guys. You have stated in the past that Mac OSX crashes.
>>>> That the guys you work with have told you and you've see it. I've been
>>>>using Mac OSX every day for over five years now with out a crash. I
think
>>>>the other Mac guys here would tell you pretty much the same thing. I
>don't
>>>>know why they would have so much problems, but OSX is for the most part
>>>problem
>>>>free for most users. To state other wise is not correct generally speaking,
>>>>and sounds like typical mac bashing.
>>>>
>>>>I've never had a virus on a Mac and I've been using them everyday since
>>>1994!
>>>> I would say, most of the guys here that use PCs for audio, don't use
>the
>>>>same machine for the internet, to a Mac user that's crazy and laughable.
>>>> A lot of people say that a Mac cost twice as much as a PC, yeah, but
>you
>>>>have to have two of them to safely do what a Mac does. So what's it
cost???
>>>>The logic is funny. Yes you can build a PC cheaper, but look at all
the
>>>>problems and the hassle. Mac are not perfect, ricks G4 800 is an example
>>>>of a lemon, but it's not the norm. If you love Windows and you love
to
>>>tinker
>>>>and build cheap machines, that's cool! Different strokes for different
>>>folks.
>>>> Just don't bash the Mac or the Mac users.
>>>>
>>>>My original post about the iPhone was just to say check it out. I was
>>impressed
>>>>with it's design and capabilities. It's slick! Of course the same guys
>>>>that bash any thing Apple Posted replys, and it becomes, So what, My
thing
>>>>can do anything that can. My phone is better because it runs windows.
>>
>>>The
>>>>old , my thing is bigger and better than your thing, pissing contest.
>
>>My
>>>>windows PC is better than your Mac. It wasn't a contest post, or a draw
>>>>to arms challenge.
>>>>
>>>>I wasn't trying to tell anybody to go buy one. The reply was, mine is
>>better
>>>>and it doesn't get better because of Windows compatibility and software.
>>>> I said check it out, because you don't know until you check it out completely.
>>>> it is windows compatible. I stated the features, design and user interface
>>>>are superior. It's not a big and bulky as it's competitors. It's a
>smaller
>>>>sleeker design with a 3.5 LCD. The UI is obviously more advanced, they
>>>can
>>>>create new user interfaces in software in to the future to add more features
>>>>and software. It has better features like rich HTML web pages with zoom
>>>>in, web pages look like web pages, landscape viewing, text to voice etc.
>>>> It's best to go get an education on it and watch the video before you
>>rip
>>>>on it just because it's an Apple product.
>>>>
>>>>Yes, the video is a sales pitch! It's also a demo of the products.
It's
>>>>always a good thing to know what your talking about first hand, especially
>>>>when your going to bash something.
>>>>
>>>>James
>>>>
>>>>"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>>>>Hmmm, A "Zealot" calling the kettle black.
>>>>>I hope you re-read some of your recent posts in a week or two and discover
>>>>
>>>>>what we all see.
>>>>>--
>>>>>Martin Harrington
>>>>>www.lendanear-sound.com
>>>>>
>>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:45a5ca84$1@linux...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The Treo 700wx does all those things: With a touch screen to boot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>And while the Iphone syncs perfectly with itunes, the Treo 700 wx
syncs
>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>Win Media player (with Play for sure technology) which is wayyy bettter
>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>itunes..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not knocking the Treo or the BB. I think for a windows user they
>>>>are
>>>>>> perfect. Those products have had time to mature, and quite a bit
of
>>>third
>>>>>> party development. The iPhone looks pretty slick out of the gate.
>
>>Only
>>>>>> time will tell if the iPhone will be a success. I have to say for
>the
>>>>
>>>>>> average
>>>>>> guy the price is steep IMO, but not for someone with all the needs.
>>
>>>>>> Again,
>>>>>> it should be noted, the iPhone is PC compatible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well I'm not sure what you mean about the Plays for sure thing being
>>>
>>>>>> better
>>>>>> than iTunes, but if your in to MS DRM, cool!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One thing I'll point out about Windows Media Player, is that they
have
>>>>
>>>>>> copied
>>>>>> the itunes interface, Aqua theme/look, even the Itunes logo with the
>>>aqua
>>>>>> musical note and the CD. It's all hard to not notice MS's blatant
>rip
>>>>off
>>>>>> of Apple design and innovation, just look at Vista. They been at
it
>>>for
>>>>>> years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>LaMont wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Jamie, it's Kool-aid to actually believe that Apple has AGAIN (Lol!!)
>>>>>>>Re-invented
>>>>>>>>> the phone...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Well, it's a phone/media player/PDA/camera (what did I leave out?).
>>>The
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"reinvention" really has to do with the finger-touch-screen interface,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>right? So we'll see if it lives up to the hype when it ships.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Man, that guy (Mr Jobs) does not quit with his BS.. Please Mr Jobs
>>>>stop
>>>>>>>with
>>>>>>>>> the propaganda.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Heh. It's a good thing you're immune to hyped advertising because
>we're
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>surrounded by it from all directions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Next week, if Apple comes out with a new version of Logic, they'll
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> claim
>>>>>>>>> to ahve Re-Invented the DAW..
>>>
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