Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » no limit update?
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| Re: no limit update? [message #89866 is a reply to message #89858] |
Sat, 15 September 2007 09:06   |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
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Senior Member |
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Paul Artola
> Ellicott City, Maryland
>
>
>
>On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:28:29 -0400, "D-unit" <cof42_AT_embarqmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Roll call?....i.e. (who dat?)
>>
>>
>>db
>>
>Don, what's so cheap about $150.00 bucks for some radio shack parts?
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>Well here is a boutique guy, who makes fabulous sounding pedals
>at ridiculously low prices. All of his stuff is just stellar, and you
>will swear you paid 500.00 bucks for it. His Tone Press parallel
>compressor is the best pedal comp in the world IMO.
>
>http://www.barberelectronics.com/
>
>DC
>Hi Aaron, I'm sorry, I did not mean rant about your post..Rather,
I'm praising the DYI effort. I think this is as Boutique as any of todays
offerings which are outrageous to say the least..
"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>You've missed my point. This is for the DIY gearhead types that aren't
>looking to pay several hundred bucks for a *used* vintage pedal on ebay
when
>it can be had/built new for $70.... or did I miss the point you are making?
>
>AA
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:47137b63@linux...
>>
>> I checked out one of those Behringer Pedals, and they sound 'Better' than
>> Roland-Boss pedals. Hands down.
>>
>> Note: I've been playing the guitar for over 30 years now and I've owned
>> pretty
>> every boss pedal thru the years. My point:
>>
>> Boss pedals we're not that good then. And you purchased them when you
>> could
>> not afford a MRX or Elect-Harmonix pedal unit.
>>
>> Boss prices are outlandish!! Even more, so is this new so-called boutique
>> fx pedal market. $200-300 hundred for a distortion box.. Pleassee!!
>>
>> This whole boutique/vintage market BS that's being perpetrated on the
>> pro-audio
>> world is just that BS. The fact that some of us buy this stuff and Feel
>> like
>> a king when we make such ridiculous purchases. 5K-7K for a Mic that sound
>> wise can be had today for around $500.00 bucks.
>>
>> I think this whole boutique /Vinatge market push being pushed by the
>> old-guard
>> engineers that does not wnat to let go of:
>>
>> -Work flow methods
>> -Sound of recordings
>>
>> Let's take soudn of recording..Most of the pro-audio market is being held
>> hostage by this old guard and these guys live in a 1960-70's sound
>> quality
>> mind-set. Real innovation and technology has been held hostage by
>> companies
>> trying to accomodate this audience.
>>
>> Even though great sounding records can and Are being made using new tools
>> and high sample rates (Neil comes to mind) with In The Box summing, the
>> old
>> guard companies like SSL, Neve, Trident have rose from the dead and are
>> trying
>> to sell 100k feature-less mixers. Once again, insistng that we turn the
>> clock
>> around and accomodate these old farts :)..
>>
>> Hey, do'nt get me wrong, I like a trained on the old stuff from the 70's
>> and 80's. I have that sound imprinted in my head. But, If I'm honest,
a
>> good
>> mondern mix kills any of those mixes by leaps and bounds. Problem is,
we
>> have to start mixing by the rules of digital..
>>
>> Okay Rant off..
>>
>>
>>
>> "Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>Buy any 4 kits, get any 4 kits free. Free kits will be of equal or =
>>>lesser value. One day only! Oct 15th. While supplies last. No =
>>>rainchecks. Add all 8 kits to your cart. Enter "moving sale" in the
=
>>>coupon code at checkout. 4 free kit limit.
>>>
>>>
>>>http://www.buildyourownclone.com
>>>
>>>I built/use their MXR90 clone, they are good pedals. If you're in the
=
>>>market to build, this is the time to do it.
>>>AA
>>>
>>><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>>><HTML><HEAD>
>>><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>>>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>>><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16544" name=3DGENERATOR>
>>><STYLE></STYLE>
>>></HEAD>
>>><BODY>
>>><DIV><SPAN class=3Dtext><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 24px; LINE-HEIGHT: =
>>>29px"><FONT=20
>>>face=3DArial size=3D2>Buy any 4 kits, get any 4 kits free. Free =
>>>kits will be=20
>>>of equal or lesser value. One day only! Oct 15th. =
>>> While=20
>>>supplies last. No rainchecks. Add all 8 kits to your=20
>>>cart. Enter "moving sale" in the coupon code at checkout. =
>>> 4=20
>>>free kit limit.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
>>><DIV><SPAN class=3Dtext><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 24px; LINE-HEIGHT: =
>>>29px"><FONT=20
>>>face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
>>><DIV><SPAN class=3Dtext><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 24px; LINE-HEIGHT: =
>>>29px"><FONT=20
>>>face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
>>><DIV><SPAN class=3Dtext><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 24px; LINE-HEIGHT: =
>>>29px"><A=20
>>>href=3D"http://www.buildyourownclone.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>>size=3D2>http://www.buildyourownclone.com</FONT></A></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
>>><DIV><SPAN class=3Dtext><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 24px; LINE-HEIGHT: =
>>>29px"><FONT=20
>>>face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
>>><DIV><SPAN class=3Dtext><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 24px; LINE-HEIGHT: =
>>>29px"><FONT=20
>>>face=3DArial size=3D2><EM>I built/use their MXR90 clone, they are good
=
>>>pedals. If=20
>>>you're in the market to build, this is the time to do=20
>>>it.</EM></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
>>><DIV><SPAN class=3Dtext><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 24px; LINE-HEIGHT: =
>>>29px"><EM><FONT=20
>>>face=3DArial size=3D2>AA</FONT></EM></SPAN></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML >
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>Neil, good pos.. You are right, those 80's ibanez pedals did ound pretty good..
In my pedal rack, I still use (don;t laugh) this Axiom (stereo) analog delay
pedal. It has that old tape sound down pat. and it only cost $39.00 bucks..
I work in alot in the boring smooth jazz genre,and some of the mixes are
simply stunning.Most all are ITB. Artistlike Chuck Loeb, Marcus Miller, George
Duke, Benson, Joe Sample..etc But, you are right ..When I think about Benson's
1976 Breezing album. It's sound's like it's current.
My buddy gave a copy of Dyes' Mix It Like a Record DVDs and yes, he does
specify that you insert a analog channel plugin on every or most channels
(Tracking & Mixing) including the mix buss..
I don;t think the plugins he used are that good (McDsp analog gain). I think
that "Antress" free Analog plugin will give you wayy better results..for
what he is trying to achieve.
But, I agree, mixing like this, will kill the dynamics.. But, he is going
for a sound.
My wish, is that we get back to the basics. Write the best song..Record and
mix using the tools we have. Let's stop living in the Past. It's funny ,
but in the 70's thoe engineers where not trying to recapture the Motown sound
or Phil Spector's wall of sound. They were trying to go to a new level..
It's like todays american radio which lives in our past musical glories.
We, the makers of todays music have to realize that i's the Song and pure
Talent and not the tools that moves people.
A great singer in any Genre (Luther Vandross, Freddy Mercury,Yolanda Adams,
Celine Dionne, Marion Anderson) can be recorded on a Radio shack mic using
a peavey mixer recorded to a cassette, with a great song will out do an
ok singer with an ok song, using Westlake (LA) studios witha full mic & pre
cabinet.
"Neil" <OIOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>I checked out one of those Behringer Pedals, and they
>>sound 'Better' than Roland-Boss pedals. Hands down.
>
>AND... they now come with their own built-in halon dispensing
>systems inside! lol :D
>
>
>>Note: I've been playing the guitar for over 30 years now and
>>I've owned pretty every boss pedal thru the years. My point:
>>
>>Boss pedals we're not that good then. And you purchased them
>>when you could not afford a MRX or Elect-Harmonix pedal unit.
>
>Actually, ISTR that E-H had a good amount of stuff that was
>cheaper than some of the Boss units "back in the day". The
>bigger E-H goodies like the Deluxe Memory Man - yeah those were
>kinda pricey. The Boss stuff right outta the box sounded
>CLEANER, though... the Electro-Harmonix Noise Gate was the only
>noise gate ever made that actually ADDED noise lol.
>I think it was the sound quality & lack of having something
>that sounded like you were mic'ing a bagful of bees & snakes
>and mixing it in with your guitar signal that got Boss
>widespread usage. MXR = different type of sound - their stuff
>all had a certain not-too-versatile signature kinda sound... IOW
>it sounded good, but if you used their Distortion+, it had one
>tone to it, no matter where you set it, same with their
>phaser; so when Boss & Ibanez, etc. came out with useful, more
>versatile AND affordable good-sounding EFX, they took off.
>
>
>>This whole boutique/vintage market BS that's being perpetrated on the pro-audio
>>world is just that BS. The fact that some of us buy this stuff and Feel
>like
>>a king when we make such ridiculous purchases. 5K-7K for a Mic that sound
>>wise can be had today for around $500.00 bucks.
>
>I'm with ya there - which is why I own what I own & don't have
>even a single veentagee' mic (although i don't know about your
>choice of the $500 price point as a reference).
>
>>I think this whole boutique /Vinatge market push being pushed
>>by the old-guard engineers that does not wnat to let go of:
>
>>-Work flow methods
>>-Sound of recordings
>
>Personally I have a feeling that a BIG part of the whole "OTB"
>mixing penchant has less to do with the sound, it's just
>that if you're a big-name producer/mixerguy & you mix
>exclusivly ITB, then some hack second engineer can simply copy
>all your channel settings & "learn" how to mix just like you
>do... and then if he's successful at it, he can then go around &
>undercut you & get the same results. The real chance of this
>individual actually being able to replicate someone's style
>simply by doing this = pretty slim, indeed. The fear of this
>happening = pretty significant, I betcha.
>TotalRecall may capture every knob position on your SSL, but it
>doesn't know squat about what outboard gear you used & how it
>was set, and that's a big part of the sound of a mix,
>but "Copy all Channel Settings" on a completely ITB mix sure
>does!
>
>
>>Let's take soudn of recording..Most of the pro-audio market is
>>being held hostage by this old guard and these guys live in a
>>1960-70's sound quality mind-set. Real innovation and
>>technology has been held hostage by companies trying to
>>accomodate this audience.
>
>I agree & disagree at the same time. there is a lot of old-
>skewl mentality around, but I wouldn't say it's holding anyone
>hostage - there's nothing to stop anyone from moving in their
>own direction, and there's plenty of gear out there that will
>accommodate this. Get some high-rez mics, pres & convertors,
>some kind of setup on the recording side that will handle
>plenty of tracks at high sample rates, and as many VSTi's as
>you want to run, and you're about as far away from that old
>school as you can get (whether there are oleanders growing
>outside your door or not lol!).
>
>Personally, I think part of it is just a longing for a certain
>sound - a sound that's practically as good as gone as a dated
>genre of music in & of itself. Tape sounded a certain way,
>digital sounds another way, I like aspects of both & I miss
>tape in a way, but hey, it's a new century.
>
>
>
>>Even though great sounding records can and Are being made
>>using new tools and high sample rates (Neil comes to mind)
>>with In The Box summing,
>
>Why, thank you! lol :D
>
>
>>the old guard companies like SSL, Neve, Trident have rose from
>>the dead and are trying to sell 100k feature-less mixers.
>
>Yeah, but since technology marches forward bringing costs down,
>NOW you can also get $3k mixers that - if the hype on the new
>MTA stuff is true (check out various gearslutz threads on
>these) - sound like some of the baddest mofo desks EVER!
>
>>Hey, do'nt get me wrong, I like a trained on the old stuff
>>from the 70's and 80's. I have that sound imprinted in my
>>head. But, If I'm honest, a good mondern mix kills any of
>>those mixes by leaps and bounds.
>
>I like a lot of modern mixes, but I also still like - and will
>probably always like - a lot of the older stuff, too. Example:
>the other day I'm driving in the car & the Manfred Mann cover
>of "Blinded by the Light" comes on, as I was going along
>listening it occured to me what a great mix that is - I don't
>think you could make that mix any better no matter
>where/how/when, and on what format you recorded it to. It's
>just a killer mix! Could it be "different"? Sure, but what
>could make it "better", nothing - I really think they nailed it.
>
>>Problem is, we have to start mixing by the rules of digital..
>
>Not if guys like Charles Dye continue to preach their gospel.
>"Mix it Like a Record", basically means: "take EVERY wonderful
>aspect of the current of modern digital recording, like greater
>resolution, better clarity, SNR's so high that they don't even
>matter anymore.... and ADD A BUNCH OF NOISY SHIT TO IT!"
>He advocates adding a little bit of distortion to every track...
>I mean, C'mon! Why do we have 24-bit convertors, then? We
>should just seek out some old 12-bit ones! :D
>
>NeilI don't see any paella
"Tyrone Corbett" <tyronecorbett@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4713ae1d$1@linux...
>
> Here's a photo from dinner...
>
> Tyrone
>
> "Tyrone Corbett" <tyronecorbett@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>I really enjoyed AES, but even moreso enjoyed the "Paris NG" dinner.
>>Meeting
>>Chris Ludwig and Paul, as well as the rest of the guys was great.
>>
>>Chris built my very first Paris rig some six years ago and we have stayed
>>in contact, but never met. Putting the face with the voice was quite cool.
>>I see Gene from time to time, but not nearly as often as I prefer as he
> is
>>always a good hang, as well as a plethora of music knowledge (both
>>artistically
>> and technically).
>>
>>The most interesting part of the table-talk, was the question "Who
>>actually
>>uses Paris on a daily basis?" Before I could raise my hand, Gene was
>>looking
>>in my direction as he knew that answer. Yes, I use Paris daily.from sun
> up
>>till sun down I chimed. I figured I wouldn't be by myself on that one, but
>>I'm more than cool with that. It still works, sounds great and I truly
>>enjoy
>>using it, not to mention the fact that it in no way hinders the artistic
>>process!
>>
>>Looking forward to doing it again someday!
>>
>>Tyrone
>>
>Goin' to the Series!I was hoping that I misunderstood, and it appears I have. Apologies, and
yup.. we agree on this 'botique' thing and the current state of tools
available to musicians and engineers. I believe it has much, much more to do
with the music and the vibe and the skill than if a tool is a certain age or
the price tag. Good sounds and vibe are good sounds an' vibe, regardless of
how they made it onto your iPOD.
AA
"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:47142515$1@linux...
>
> Hi Aaron, I'm sorry, I did not mean rant about your post..Rather,
> I'm praising the DYI effort. I think this is as Boutique as any of todays
> offerings which are outrageous to say the least..
>
> "Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>You've missed my point. This is for the DIY gearhead types that aren't
>>looking to pay several hundred bucks for a *used* vintage pedal on ebay
> when
>>it can be had/built new for $70.... or did I miss the point you are
>>making?
>>
>>AA
>>
>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:47137b63@linux...
>>>
>>> I checked out one of those Behringer Pedals, and they sound 'Better'
>>> than
>>> Roland-Boss pedals. Hands down.
>>>
>>> Note: I've been playing the guitar for over 30 years now and I've owned
>
>>> pretty
>>> every boss pedal thru the years. My point:
>>>
>>> Boss pedals we're not that good then. And you purchased them when you
>
>>> could
>>> not afford a MRX or Elect-Harmonix pedal unit.
>>>
>>> Boss prices are outlandish!! Even more, so is this new so-called
>>> boutique
>>> fx pedal market. $200-300 hundred for a distortion box.. Pleassee!!
>>>
>>> This whole boutique/vintage market BS that's being perpetrated on the
>
>>> pro-audio
>>> world is just that BS. The fact that some of us buy this stuff and Feel
>
>>> like
>>> a king when we make such ridiculous purchases. 5K-7K for a Mic that
>>> sound
>>> wise can be had today for around $500.00 bucks.
>>>
>>> I think this whole boutique /Vinatge market push being pushed by the
>>> old-guard
>>> engineers that does not wnat to let go of:
>>>
>>> -Work flow methods
>>> -Sound of recordings
>>>
>>> Let's take soudn of recording..Most of the pro-audio market is being
>>> held
>>> hostage by this old guard and these guys live in a 1960-70's sound
>>> quality
>>> mind-set. Real innovation and technology has been held hostage by
>>> companies
>>> trying to accomodate this audience.
>>>
>>> Even though great sounding records can and Are being made using new
>>> tools
>>> and high sample rates (Neil comes to mind) with In The Box summing, the
>
>>> old
>>> guard companies like SSL, Neve, Trident have rose from the dead and are
>
>>> trying
>>> to sell 100k feature-less mixers. Once again, insistng that we turn the
>
>>> clock
>>> around and accomodate these old farts :)..
>>>
>>> Hey, do'nt get me wrong, I like a trained on the old stuff from the 70's
>>> and 80's. I have that sound imprinted in my head. But, If I'm honest,
> a
>>> good
>>> mondern mix kills any of those mixes by leaps and bounds. Problem is,
> we
>>> have to start mixing by the rules of digital..
>>>
>>> Okay Rant off..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Buy any 4 kits, get any 4 kits free. Free kits will be of equal or =
>>>>lesser value. One day only! Oct 15th. While supplies last. No =
>>>>rainchecks. Add all 8 kits to your cart. Enter "moving sale" in the
> =
>>>>coupon code at checkout. 4 free kit limit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>http://www.buildyourownclone.com
>>>>
>>>>I built/use their MXR90 clone, they are good pedals. If you're in the
> =
>>>>market to build, this is the time to do it.
>>>>AA
>>>>
>>>><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>>>><HTML><HEAD>
>>>><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>>>>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>>>><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16544" name=3DGENERATOR>
>>>><STYLE></STYLE>
>>>></HEAD>
>>>><BODY>
>>>><DIV><SPAN class=3Dtext><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 24px; LINE-HEIGHT: =
>>>>29px"><FONT=20
>>>>face=3DArial size=3D2>Buy any 4 kits, get any 4 kits free. Free =
>>>>kits will be=20
>>>>of equal or lesser value. One day only! Oct 15th. =
>>>> While=20
>>>>supplies last. No rainchecks. Add all 8 kits to your=20
>>>>cart. Enter "moving sale" in the coupon code at checkout. =
>>>> 4=20
>>>>free kit limit.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
>>>><DIV><SPAN class=3Dtext><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 24px; LINE-HEIGHT: =
>>>>29px"><FONT=20
>>>>face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
>>>><DIV><SPAN class=3Dtext><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 24px; LINE-HEIGHT: =
>>>>29px"><FONT=20
>>>>face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
>>>><DIV><SPAN class=3Dtext><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 24px; LINE-HEIGHT: =
>>>>29px"><A=20
>>>>href=3D"http://www.buildyourownclone.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>>>size=3D2>http://www.buildyourownclone.com</FONT></A></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
>>>><DIV><SPAN class=3Dtext><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 24px; LINE-HEIGHT: =
>>>>29px"><FONT=20
>>>>face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
>>>><DIV><SPAN class=3Dtext><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 24px; LINE-HEIGHT: =
>>>>29px"><FONT=20
>>>>face=3DArial size=3D2><EM>I built/use their MXR90 clone, they are good
> =
>>>>pedals. If=20
>>>>you're in the market to build, this is the time to do=20
>>>>it.</EM></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
>>>><DIV><SPAN class=3Dtext><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 24px; LINE-HEIGHT: =
>>>>29px"><EM><FONT=20
>>>>face=3DArial size=3D2>AA</FONT></EM></SPAN></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>Nice, Chris. Sound right purty. Hey, he didn't look that tall in "Walk the
Line" (love that movie). She must be really petite.
Anyway, good job. :)
S
"Chris Latham" <latham_c@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:4712e345$Report message to a moderator
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|
| Re: no limit update? [message #89876 is a reply to message #89864] |
Sat, 15 September 2007 11:29 |
mike audet[1]
Messages: 129
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
92k? Why climb Mt. Everest? Why eat sushi or Thai when
McDonalds is cheaper? (Okay the last two just because they are better...
;-))
Nah, I'm not big on moving to 96k at near 0 latency at all costs -
eventually, but not just yet. It's a workflow and convenience issue more
than anything for me. It also isn't so much about pushing the lowest
latency as low as possible as it is supporting larger loads at nearer the
lowest latency supported. The lower the min latency, the lower the working
latency under load (if you can run 32 samples, you might get 128 under
decent load; if 128 is the lowest, you might never go below 512 for a normal
work load).
As far as Symphony - no real option to integrate it into an existing system
other than buying Apogee converters (which are great, but if you already
have converters, it's an unnecessary expense).
Regards,
Dedric
On 10/20/07 7:36 PM, in article 471aad23$1@linux, "LaMont"
<jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hey Dedric, I concur on your points. I have a question to you and many others.
>
> Why is so important to have zero latency or a native based rig? When, just
> adding a mixer for monitoring will take care of it. Now, you have zero
> latency/
> with fx (via verb fx) when tracking.
>
> yes, Asio is nice, but it seems that folks are hell bent on cracking .003
> ms latency at 88.2/96k sampling rates or even 192.
>
> Even with the fastest computers, they all struggle to get to utopia zero
> latency.. Jsut add any mixer and the problem is solved..
>
> BTW: Those Apogee symphony test are real world numbers. You gotta admit,
> thosse ms nuembers are impressive..
>
> And, although kind of expensive, those current macs can be used as dsp
> devices..aka
> like farm dsp cards..
>
> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>> Hey Lamont - for sure OSX is the most commercially viable Unix based
>> solution.
>>
>> My biggest concerns about that route at the moment are the lack of hardware
>> options in a broader price range (e.g. can't buy a single-quad core, which
>> would be great for a farm system); solid proof that core audio can run at
>> comparable low latencies under
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