Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Explaining Vertex delay comp to avoid misunderstandings !!
| Explaining Vertex delay comp to avoid misunderstandings !! [message #78901] |
Wed, 24 January 2007 00:48  |
Dimitrios
Messages: 1056
Registered: August 2005
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Senior Member |
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iga worked but it wasn't integrated with
>cubase and I couldn't stand that because it just got to complicated when
>all I wanted to do was take ten minutes and record a song real quick. Then
>I got the brilliant idea to try halion, and import my gigas, which worked
>ok, but in the end I could never get acceptable, playable latencies in that
>environment using the presonus.
>
>In the end it's all so stupid and ridiculous that I gave up, which bums
me
>out, because I think I am approaching writing some decent songs.
>
>Chuck
>
>Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>
>>Man, that is a sad story Chuck.
>>
>>Maybe you should get a stand alone recorder next to your piano.
>>
>>Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>>chuck duffy wrote:
>>> I hear you man. It kills me, because I am normally deep voodoo uncommonly
>>> good at solving software, hardware and driver problems.
>>>
>>> I'm glad all of you guys have solid rigs, but my cubase, firewire experience
>>> has left me never wanting to touch a computer again. I honestly get
a
>pit
>>> in my stomache when I think about recording. And it aint just pre-sonus.
>>> I have been through so much crap with this shit that it kills me. I
>had
>>> a little midiman keyboard with lots of faders and knobs and stuff that
>was
>>> perfect for B4, had a working template that mapped everything to the
draw
>>> pulls and knobs on the B4.
>>>
>>> Loved it. Then the USB quit working. So I switched to the conventional
>>> MIDI port, then the keys started breaking. So I switched to an edirol
>with
>>> lots of knobs and faders. No mapping for B4. Spent two days learning
>how
>>> to create the mapping, saved the template to the device.
>>>
>>> Things were fine, then the template mysteriously disappeared from the
>keyboard,
>>> so I reloaded, then it stopped retaining settings completely when powered
>>> down. For a little while I wresled with re-loading the template from
>disk
>>> to the device every time I wanted to play. I memorized the 13 keystrokes
>>> required, but then didn't play for a while and forgot, broke out the
manual
>>> and said f*** it and gave up.
>>>
>>> A critical hard drive died, without backup and I lost half my projects
>that
>>> I wanted to finish after a 10 year hiatus from actually doing any serious
>>> recording. 10% of the ones that I didn't loose are corrupt paris projects
>>> for whatever reason.
>>>
>>> Got a new computer, reloaded paris JUST TO EXPORT and fought with 1/1
>initialization
>>> for half a day. Then got it running and faced the real world for a couple
>>> of weeks, returned to find that the demo had expired and I couldn't find
>>> antipace.
>>>
>>> Went to use GIGA on the new computer and worked through their warped
re-authorization
>>> process that involved me removing hacking the registry for everything
>I had
>>> just re-installed. Figured out how to get the GSIF drivers working and
>outputing
>>> SPDIF from an ECHO MIA. Couldn't reliably get the pre-sonus and MIA
to
>sync
>>> with sp/dif so gave up and decided to go analog.
>>>
>>> Got it working and noticed that the piano sounded like absolute shit.
> All
>>> phasey and wierd. Discovered that the pre-sonus doesn't pan in standalone
>>> mode, so it was simply layering the LR giga output together.
>>>
>>> Fire up cubase and find that the only latency that stops the stuttering
>and
>>> chattering of TWO
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| Re: Explaining Vertex delay comp to avoid misunderstandings !! [message #78902 is a reply to message #78901] |
Wed, 24 January 2007 01:06  |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
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Senior Member |
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CHANNELS OF 44.1 K won't let me play the damn thing
>in
>>> real time.
>>>
>>> This is of course all over the course of months/years. I don't get more
>>> than 10 minutes of un-interrupted time anymore, and when I do I can't
>even
>>> play a f**** midi piano.
>>>
>>> So I play the real thing, which I love, and think to myself how much
I
>would
>>> like to record the tune I'm playing. That gets me depressed so I knock
>off
>>> and head upstairs.
>>>
>>> My new tee shirt is gonna read 'i'll record when i'm dead'
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>>> See? This is the kind of crap I bitched about before...
>>>> companies putting stuff out on the market that doesn't work with
>>>> half of what it's "supposed" to interface with, or putting it
>>>> out before it's ready, causing everyone who buys it to become an
>>>> unwitting beta-tester.
>>>>
>>>> Thad, you disagreed with my stance on this before, but being a
>>>> systems guy for a living, you have to agree that this is WAY
>>>> more rampant in the audio field than it is in any other... I
>>>> mean, how many times have you gotten a new piece of gear in at
>>>> work, and find it simply doens't work as advertised? As often as
>>>> we encounter this sort of thing in the audio realm?
>>>>
>>>> Neil
>>>>
>>>> Neil
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>>>> Actually, two different laptops using the on-board fire-wire and with
>a
>>>> PCMCIA
>>>>> firewire interface. One desktop using on-board firewire and PCI firewire.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck
>>>>>
>>>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Sorry you're having so much trouble with it, Chuck. Maybe I'm just
>getting
>>>>>> lucky, or maybe the hardware is scared of not working around me. Are
>you
>>>>>> using it on a desktop or laptop?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TCB
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Thad,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't know about the general opinion, since I haven't done much
>research,
>>>>>>> but my personal experience with the Firepod has been a disaster.
>Snaps,
>>>>>>> crackles, pops, lockups, usable only at unplayable latencies (figure
>>> that
>>>>>>> out :-)). Two different computers, three different chipsets, all
>the
>>>> driver
>>>>>>> revs. Extremely inflexible live monitoring, lack of panning when
>used
>>>>> in
>>>>>>> standalone mode. The list goes on and on, and I've basically given
>up
>>>>> on
>>>>>>> recording because I can't afford the time or the money to research
>and
>>>>> buy
>>>>>>> something different.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chuck
>>>>>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> But there seems to be this general opinion that there is something
>'wrong'
>>>>>>>> with the driver in all cases. Needing to have the right chipset
for
>>> an
>>>>>> esoteric
>>>>>>>> third party add-on is a mild pain and something that should be known,
>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> the idea that the Presonus gear doesn't work correctly or has 'bad
>drivers'
>>>>>>>> is just bosh. I'm not saying you were implying this, but I've started
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> hear/read that in various places.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> TCB
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I've had a Firebox for a while and have only ever had problems
with
>>>> it
>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>> using it as what we used to call a wave device, i.e. using it as
>a
>>> system
>>>>>>>>> sound device. The ASIO driver has been rock solid for me, using
>the
>>>> on
>>>>>>> board
>>>>>>>>> firewire on a Dell laptop.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> TCB
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> HI DJ,
>>>>>>>>>> The firebox sounds and generally works well but does have some
>firewire
>>>>>>>>>> chipset compatibility issues.
>>>>>>>>>> I'd recommend using a Firewire PCI card for any audio interfaces
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| Re: Explaining Vertex delay comp to avoid misunderstandings !! [message #78903 is a reply to message #78902] |
Wed, 24 January 2007 01:09 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
|
Senior Member |
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>
>on
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> A8V.
>>>>>>>>>> You should also check out the Focusrite Sapphire LE or the TC
Konnekt4D
>>>>>>>>>> all it he same price range.
>>>>>>>>>> Sonically they all sound better than the M-Audio FW410. The TC
>Konnect
>>>>>>>>>> series have a pair of excellent Mic-Pres but has issues with Sonar.
>>>>>>>>>> Works great with Cubase, Samp, Reaper, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> DJ wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Chris,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I've been thinking of getting one of those little Presonus Firebox
>>>>> gizmo's
>>>>>>>>>>> for Amy's new PC, just so she can plug in a guitar and mic and
>record
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> vocal/guitar track to a click when she feels a song coming on.
>The
>>>>> thing
>>>>>>>>>>> that appeals to me about this is that it is small/simple (at
least
>>>>> appears
>>>>>>>>>>> to be), has a couple of preamps and is bundled with Cubase SE
>so
>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>> platforms are compatible and I can grab the project/tracks on
>the
>>>> network
>>>>>>>>>> >from the main DAW in the studio and import them.
>>>>>>>>>>> Is the Presonus driver so shabby that it would not be usable
for
>>> simple
>>>>>>>>>>> stuff like this? She will be using my old DAW rig for her new
>graphics/music
>>>>>>>>>>> computer. ASUS A8V-Dlx, AMD 64 4400x2 CPU 2G RAM on XP SP2. I
>figured
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> FW
>>>>>>>>>>> port on this would probably handle simple two track recording.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Is there another simple and inexpensive (and better) 2 track
recording
>>>>>>>>>>> interface that is bundled with Cubase SE?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Deej
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Chris Ludwig" <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:45d88fac$1@linux...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> HI Brandon,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Driver -
>>>>>>>>>>>> Not all the routing features are available in the current drivers.
>>>>>> You
>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>>> at the moment only use the analog and the first bank of adat
>in
>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> internal routing control.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Every unit we've gotten so far has had hardware issues.
>>>>>>>>>>>> dead or abnormally noisy inputs or outputs.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Weird zippering sounds when using the mic gain and also the
headphone
>>>>>>>>>>>> channels.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Grounding noise and buzzing units.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If they work out some of these mechanical and or drivers issues
>>> then
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> unit will be a great device but so far I've had to replace almost
>>>>> every
>>>>>>>>>>>> unit with some other device.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The Focusrite Sapphire Pro is the only other in that price range
>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>> similar features. It doesn't have the routing features of the
>Presonus
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>> has the same number of I/O.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In the long run I think you really better off going with the
>MOTU
>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> RME
>>>>>>>>>>>> products.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If the the budget is an issues then I would recommend.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Any of these would work in that budget and give you the cuemix
>controls
>>>>>>>>>>>> similar to Presonus and RME.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1x MOTU 8Pre
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1x Presonus Digimax FS
>>>>>>>>>>>> $1080.00
>>>>>>>>>>>> This will give you 16 analog ins and 12 analog outs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2x MOTU 8 Pre - $1070.00
>>>>>>>>>>>> This will give you 16 analog in 4 analog outs (8 if you count
>the
>>>>>>>>>>>> seperate headphones)
>>>>>>>>>>>> You will also have 16 channels of ADAT to use. So if you add
>2 DigimaxFS
>>>>&
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| Re: Explaining Vertex delay comp to avoid misunderstandings !! [message #78921 is a reply to message #78901] |
Wed, 24 January 2007 12:21 |
Jon Jiles
Messages: 90
Registered: November 2005
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Member |
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ans are to have a good system that is expandable... and if
>> other band members want to jump and purchase their own receiver and
>> plugs... it will be compatible...
>>
>> Any help? Also, if there are other systems that is better recommended..
>> please write...
>>
>
>Interesting thread for sure.
Chuck.. if you're watching.. man, get a stand alone HD24/mixer or get a
Creamware set up. I'm just sick of workarounds and conflicts and crap that
comes with a computer - I already do that all day long and I sure don't want
to do it for myself at night. What's that they say about mechanics and the
piles of junk they drive?
I am giddy to get home every night and get a few minutes learning SCOPE,
because it's a bit of a curve but it's just that fast and cool that I'm
pretty sure that's my next step beyond Paris at this point. My cold start to
Scope is up and running on an AMD2200/XP system is about 40 seconds. The
amount of I/O in that system is sickening man, email me if you want more
specs.
AA
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:45db3d89$1@linux...
>
> We get bad gear ALL THE TIME, and if you include security and software
> patches
> that break other (critical) processes even more so. I've seen $30k servers
> show up DOA and all we can do is ship it back and get another one because
> the app runs on Solaris 8 so it's giddy up and SPARC or go home.
>
> My argument you about Creamware wasn't that the world _shouldn't_ be as
> you
> describe but that it's simply unreasonable to expect it will. Writing
> drivers
> and building hardware to run on dozens of different revs of single and
> multicore
> processors that run on an even greater number of chipsets isn't easy. Some
> companies, like RME, seem to do a far better job than others, but if it
> can't
> be made to work then their responsibility is to refund your money and
> that's
> that. It wouldn't surprise me if you were the first person the retailer
> had
> dealt with who wanted to run 88.2 and the literature said it supported it
> so off it goes.
>
> All that said, guess what, my RME RPM died after about two days.
>
> You still willing to sell me those mics? They better JUST WORK ;-)
>
> TCB
>
> "Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>
>>See? This is the kind of crap I bitched about before...
>>companies putting stuff out on the market that doesn't work with
>>half of what it's "supposed" to interface with, or putting it
>>out before it's ready, causing everyone who buys it to become an
>>unwitting beta-tester.
>>
>>Thad, you disagreed with my stance on this before, but being a
>>systems guy for a living, you have to agree that this is WAY
>>more rampant in the audio field than it is in any other... I
>>mean, how many times have you gotten a new piece of gear in at
>>work, and find it simply doens't work as advertised? As often as
>>we encounter this sort of thing in the audio realm?
>>
>>Neil
>>
>>Neil
>>
>>
>>
>>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Actually, two different laptops using the on-board fire-wire and with a
>>PCMCIA
>>>firewire interface. One desktop using on-board firewire and PCI
>>>firewire.
>>>
>>>Chuck
>>>
>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Sorry you're having so much trouble with it, Chuck. Maybe I'm just
>>>>getting
>>>>lucky, or maybe the hardware is scared of not working around me. Are you
>>>>using it on a desktop or laptop?
>>>>
>>>>TCB
>>>>
>>>>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>Thad,
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't know about the general opinion, since I haven't done much
>>>>>research,
>>>>>but my personal experience with the Firepod has been a disaster.
>>>>>Snaps,
>>>>>crackles, pops, lockups, usa
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| Re: Explaining Vertex delay comp to avoid misunderstandings !! [message #78923 is a reply to message #78921] |
Wed, 24 January 2007 12:32 |
Dimitrios
Messages: 1056
Registered: August 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
ing when used
>>>in
>>>>>standalone mode. The list goes on and on, and I've basically given up
>>>on
>>>>>recording because I can't afford the time or the money to research and
>>>buy
>>>>>something different.
>>>>>
>>>>>Chuck
>>>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>But there seems to be this general opinion that there is something
>>>>>>'wrong'
>>>>>>with the driver in all cases. Needing to have the right chipset for
> an
>>>>esoteric
>>>>>>third party add-on is a mild pain and something that should be known,
>>>but
>>>>>>the idea that the Presonus gear doesn't work correctly or has 'bad
>>>>>>drivers'
>>>>>>is just bosh. I'm not saying you were implying this, but I've started
>>>to
>>>>>>hear/read that in various places.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>TCB
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I've had a Firebox for a while and have only ever had problems with
>>it
>>>>>when
>>>>>>>using it as what we used to call a wave device, i.e. using it as a
> system
>>>>>>>sound device. The ASIO driver has been rock solid for me, using the
>>on
>>>>>board
>>>>>>>firewire on a Dell laptop.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>TCB
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>HI DJ,
>>>>>>>>The firebox sounds and generally works well but does have some
>>>>>>>>firewire
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>chipset compatibility issues.
>>>>>>>>I'd recommend using a Firewire PCI card for any audio interfaces on
>>>the
>>>>>>>A8V.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You should also check out the Focusrite Sapphire LE or the TC
>>>>>>>>Konnekt4D
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>all it he same price range.
>>>>>>>>Sonically they all sound better than the M-Audio FW410. The TC
>>>>>>>>Konnect
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>series have a pair of excellent Mic-Pres but has issues with Sonar.
>>>
>>>>>>>>Works great with Cubase, Samp, Reaper, etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Chris
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>DJ wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Chris,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I've been thinking of getting one of those little Presonus Firebox
>>>gizmo's
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>for Amy's new PC, just so she can plug in a guitar and mic and
>>>>>>>>>record
>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>vocal/guitar track to a click when she feels a song coming on. The
>>>thing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>that appeals to me about this is that it is small/simple (at least
>>>appears
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>to be), has a couple of preamps and is bundled with Cubase SE so
> our
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>platforms are compatible and I can grab the project/tracks on the
>>network
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>from the main DAW in the studio and import them.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Is the Presonus driver so shabby that it would not be usable for
> simple
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>stuff like this? She will be using my old DAW rig for her new
>>>>>>>>>graphics/music
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>computer. ASUS A8V-Dlx, AMD 64 4400x2 CPU 2G RAM on XP SP2. I
>>>>>>>>>figured
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>FW
>>>>>>>>>port on this would probably handle simple two track recording.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Is there another simple and inexpensive (and better) 2 track
>>>>>>>>>recording
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>interface that is bundled with Cubase SE?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Deej
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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