Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Paris Perspective:
| Paris Perspective: [message #87831] |
Mon, 09 July 2007 14:22  |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
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Senior Member |
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Ao/KTiBHCyQzA2shgbjVAYPLsCDYtLgBCF4
gBtlxUR02ABoQDuDA5T1AwTAARtwKAd9WIACFdiNBUDlgjp+RA9jJtOdQljn
3fCgITHorXd9sYIngHCHBljCYEBwQAtKoDIvyKAwCoqDDJyQgSngAAc1EAAE
G4qT78jEYCTJV2QjK7kMRnYBp0JP/+wIgxHIwSqjtA9+TJkxrWjMbQYCgw7o
YgHdbIMBfODAX+pQhFNpbAhDOCsz/8mIDjzw7A2ZswEsyKAZJhZPC234mScU
UIIgVCJcMrhDB4bwPbamJgQjSAMLxFazJgiBDLgLgRCQ5KzdsUAJe1hBB74w
hAGwoA12ZQMAMlGJoLhAAk+oQQNU4oWXzkBcHzgsYhXL2Dz1ZJISPUlkMYCB
yFaUESSxwgJyOQIJoGFUHBDAaK/yuZBe5VFMkIMaTuCEkgZhDQjg1C/UcIoB
bNRXnmgLDCZ8grqkYB/70AwXnEG
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| Re: Paris Perspective: [message #87858 is a reply to message #87855] |
Tue, 10 July 2007 07:55  |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
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Senior Member |
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/>
>>extrememly
>>benificial for editing/composing, though probably not top priority for a
>
>>mixing controller.
>>I know a lot of other users would be happy to buy a controller that
>>exceeded
>
>>a Mackie controller
>>and took a bit from the Euphonix MC
>>(http://www.euphonix.com/post/products/mc/mc.htm), and sold
>>for under $5k or so.
>>
>>The MC runs about $18k I believe, but has a dedicated protocol (Eucon) for
>
>>Nuendo, ProTools, etc.
>>Using USB midi would be fine, though if you want to go high end, ethernet
> is
>>worth a look.
>>
>>Understanding that the above is probably a little unrealistic, to your
>>list
>
>>I would add a jog/shuttle wheel
>>and assignable keys if possible. I assume you are aiming for a generic
> midi
>>DAW controller rather than proprietary
>>to one DAW.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Dedric
>>
>>"Doug Wellington" <doug@parisfaqs.com> wrote in message
>>news:46c49a0c$Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Paris Perspective: [message #87881 is a reply to message #87879] |
Tue, 10 July 2007 14:59 |
Tom Bruhl
Messages: 1368
Registered: June 2007
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Senior Member |
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>
> (859) 635-5762Chuck,
As a Life flong Giga user, I can honestly state,that your best bet is to
Get NI Kontakt 2.x..
Kontakt can play back your Giga programs, AND even convert them (super easily)
inside of it's app.!!
As well as, you can use Kontkt as a regular VSTi inside of Cubase instead
of havig to deal with Rewire( Which is just above OK ) in the Steingbege
apps..Surprisely (Rewire) implemented very well in Pro Tools (M-Powered,LE,
HD).. Who knew!!
I even purchased he new Giga VSTi (GVI) and it's just a little better than
Giga 3.. Native Instruments have really done a bang up job with Kontakt 2.x..Smooth..
AND it can stream from disk..
"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>
>Guys,
>
>Desperate help needed. Here's the issue:
>
>I have GigaStudio Solo routed via re-wire to cubase 3.x (no GSIF involved).
> I'm outputting through echo mia in cubase.
>
>When I press a note, either on the keyboard, or with the mouse on the onscreen
>giga keyboard the note sounds, but then cuts off before the sustain.
>
>It doesn't matter which sample library I use, the latency setting, midi
or
>non midi. It always cuts off the note after about 1 second.
>
>This is on an HP Athlon 64 with 3GB of RAM, and it all used to work fine.
>
>
>All I want to do is lay down some 2 track piano, and I can't get it to work.
>
>HELP
>
>Thanks
>ChuckI think about 10 out of every 10 Giga users I know say the same thing about
Giga - get Kontakt (or at least something besides Giga).
I don't use Giga, but will second Lamont's suggestion for Kontakt 2 -
excellent sampler, and it does load Giga files as easily as native Kontakt
files.
Dedric
On 8/23/07 9:56 PM, in article 46ce56d3$1@linux, "LaMont"
<jjdpro@ameritech.ne> wrote:
>
> Chuck,
> As a Life flong Giga user, I can honestly state,that your best bet is to
> Get NI Kontakt 2.x..
>
> Kontakt can play back your Giga programs, AND even convert them (super easily)
> inside of it's app.!!
>
> As well as, you can use Kontkt as a regular VSTi inside of Cubase instead
> of havig to deal with Rewire( Which is just above OK ) in the Steingbege
> apps..Surprisely (Rewire) implemented very well in Pro Tools (M-Powered,LE,
> HD).. Who knew!!
>
> I even purchased he new Giga VSTi (GVI) and it's just a little better than
> Giga 3.. Native Instruments have really done a bang up job with Kontakt
> 2.x..Smooth..
> AND it can stream from disk..
>
> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>
>> Guys,
>>
>> Desperate help needed. Here's the issue:
>>
>> I have GigaStudio Solo routed via re-wire to cubase 3.x (no GSIF involved).
>> I'm outputting through echo mia in cubase.
>>
>> When I press a note, either on the keyboard, or with the mouse on the
>> onscreen
>> giga keyboard the note sounds, but then cuts off before the sustain.
>>
>> It doesn't matter which sample library I use, the latency setting, midi
> or
>> non midi. It always cuts off the note after about 1 second.
>>
>> This is on an HP Athlon 64 with 3GB of RAM, and it all used to work fine.
>>
>>
>> All I want to do is lay down some 2 track piano, and I can't get it to work.
>>
>> HELP
>>
>> Thanks
>> Chuck
>I have several master analog tapes from 1975 - 1985 that need to be "baked"
before playing and transferring to Paris. Does anyone know a studio in Orange
County, CA or LA that provides that service? Thanks, Mike.Send the tapes here:
http://www.sonicraft.com/A2DX/a2dx_about.html
It the tapes are important its worth shipping them.
Gene
"Michael Yanoska" <yanoska@cox.net> wrote:
>
>I have several master analog tapes from 1975 - 1985 that need to be "baked"
>before playing and transferring to Paris. Does anyone know a studio in
Orange
>County, CA or LA that provides that service? Thanks, Mike.Here is a free piano using Tascam GVI. (Giga engine running VSTi.)
Bottom of page. Not Ivory, but not bad.
http://www.tascamgiga.com/details;8,7,51.html
"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>
>Guys,
>
>Desperate help needed. Here's the issue:
>
>I have GigaStudio Solo routed via re-wire to cubase 3.x (no GSIF involved).
> I'm outputting through echo mia in cubase.
>
>When I press a note, either on the keyboard, or with the mouse on the onscreen
>giga keyboard the note sounds, but then cuts off before the sustain.
>
>It doesn't matter which sample library I use, the latency setting, midi
or
>non midi. It always cuts off the note after about 1 second.
>
>This is on an HP Athlon 64 with 3GB of RAM, and it all used to work fine.
>
>
>All I want to do is lay down some 2 track piano, and I can't get it to work.
>
>HELP
>
>Thanks
>ChuckI had this problem and baked the tapes myself. It's not that scary!
I used a large cardboard box, (with an improvised small diameter
platform to allow circulation), an electric fan heater with 3 speeds, (placed
otside the box, you can adjust the temperature
by placement), and a laboratory thermometer suspended through the cardboard
box, affixed with blu-tac so the mercury is near the reel).
Worked like a charm.
Don't try to play the tape prior to baking. (contrary to what is
said in one of the articles below.
http://www.tangible-technology.com/tape/baking1.html
http://www.josephson.com/bake_tape.html
Kim
"Michael Yanoska" <yanoska@cox.net> wrote:
>
>I have several master analog tapes from 1975 - 1985 that need to be "baked"
>before playing and transferring to Paris. Does anyone know a studio in
Orange
>County, CA or LA that provides that service? Thanks, Mike.You are right Chris.. The Grand, Ivory & NI Piano are great.
Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>HI Chuck,
>O course this will be open for debate but these are the ones I've heard
>that were descent.
>Steinberg Grand 2
>Ivory
>NI Akoustic Piano
>
>There are others but haven't heard them.
>
>Ivory and Akoustic Piano are the most varied but Ivory is very system
>intensive. All of them run as either DXi or VSTi so they are far more
>integrated into Sonar , Cubase etc.
>
>
>Not sure if the MIA is fully multi-client audio and Midi but you might
>try setting up Giga as a stand alone with Sonar as the default sequencer
>for Giga and se if it works.
>
>
>Chris
>
>chuck duffy wrote:
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| Re: Paris Perspective: [message #87885 is a reply to message #87884] |
Tue, 10 July 2007 15:50 |
jp
Messages: 65
Registered: June 2005
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Member |
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n sampler I use.
TCB
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.ne> wrote:
>
>Chuck,
>As a Life flong Giga user, I can honestly state,that your best bet is to
>Get NI Kontakt 2.x..
>
>Kontakt can play back your Giga programs, AND even convert them (super easily)
>inside of it's app.!!
>
>As well as, you can use Kontkt as a regular VSTi inside of Cubase instead
>of havig to deal with Rewire( Which is just above OK ) in the Steingbege
>apps..Surprisely (Rewire) implemented very well in Pro Tools (M-Powered,LE,
>HD).. Who knew!!
>
>I even purchased he new Giga VSTi (GVI) and it's just a little better than
>Giga 3.. Native Instruments have really done a bang up job with Kontakt
2.x..Smooth..
>AND it can stream from disk..
>
>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>
>>Guys,
>>
>>Desperate help needed. Here's the issue:
>>
>>I have GigaStudio Solo routed via re-wire to cubase 3.x (no GSIF involved).
>> I'm outputting through echo mia in cubase.
>>
>>When I press a note, either on the keyboard, or with the mouse on the onscreen
>>giga keyboard the note sounds, but then cuts off before the sustain.
>>
>>It doesn't matter which sample library I use, the latency setting, midi
>or
>>non midi. It always cuts off the note
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| Re: Paris Perspective: [message #87888 is a reply to message #87845] |
Tue, 10 July 2007 15:57 |
jp
Messages: 65
Registered: June 2005
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Member |
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"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>I was playing around with a Yammy S08 the other day & to me
>(not being a Piano player, so maybe I'm not the most qualified
>to say) that felt VERY much like a real piano. Had some really
>good Piano & Organ sounds in it, too, i thought.
>
>Neil
>
>
>
>
>"Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>Sounds like a very good alternative Chuck - which model did you get?
>>
>>The only 88 key keyboards I like are the Yamaha CP300, CP33 and S90ES (the
>
>>CPs are fantastic stage pianos - great action), and sometimes, the Kurzweil
>
>>controllers, though the action is a bit shallow. Other Yamaha digital
>>pianos also have a great feel (those are just my favorites). Nothing from
>
>>Roland, Korg, M-Audio, CME, Fatar feels as playable to me.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Dedric
>>
>>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:46d1b998$1@linux...
>>>
>>> DJ, that keyboard is a mess :-) Have you played one? Mush mush mush
city.
>>> In fact, every single "pro" controller I tried was just a big ball of
>
>>> compromises.
>>&g
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| Re: Paris Perspective: [message #87895 is a reply to message #87858] |
Tue, 10 July 2007 16:41 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
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Senior Member |
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you can try simply unzipping
the file & moving the .dll file to your vst plugins folder &
see if it shows up.
Neil"Neil" <OIOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>I DO think i might be on to something here, though... trying a
>new 2-buss setup using Ozone followed by Voxengo's Elephant...
>I'm gaining right about 2- 2 1/2 db RMS & PRMS over just the
>Ozone settings without adding any perceptible distortion...
>i'll post a clip once I play with this a bit more if I think I
>might have something that's "in the zone". :D
Ohhhhh, man... you are gonna shit. yer. pants!!! Hang on a few &
I'll post the link on a new thread... almost done with this.
:D :D :DReady? Got diapers handy? OK, let's DO IT!!!
Below is a link to a sort of "mashup" I did between a song I
recorded & mixed (that I think most of you have heard) and a
typical heavily-compressed Mike Shipley-mixed/Ted Jensen-
mastered tune. Now, ths is not a diss on Mike Shipley, who's
got more platinum records on his wall than I'll ever have in 27
lifetimes, but it **MIGHT** just be a diss on Ted Jensen and
others who master like he does... well, he's got more platinum
than i'll ever have too, but nonetheless CHECK IT OUT! Here's
the deal:
1.) The file for "Panophobia" is a mixdown exported/rendered
direct from Cubase to hard disk; it was originally recorded at
24-bit 88.2k, and mixed down to 16-bit 44.1k. The 16/44 stereo
file was then imported back into a new project in Cubase, as
was the comparison song. No big deal - nothing weird or tricky
about all that.
2.) The file for the comparison song "Godspeed" by Anberlin was
imported directly into CubaseSX from CD, digitally imported
right from the onboard CD drive. No samplerate/bit
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| Re: Paris Perspective: [message #87896 is a reply to message #87895] |
Tue, 10 July 2007 17:16 |
Nil
Messages: 245
Registered: March 2007
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Senior Member |
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rate
conversions were needed on either file as the new project was
set up as a 16-bit/44.1k project.
3.) Both songs were on separate stereo tracks in SX set at "0"
gain. The Master was also left at zero. NO effects, EQ,
plugins, or anything like that were used on either the master
or the individual tracks in the comparison project that
contained the stereo song files... all I did was snip & move.
4.) I exported to a hi-rez (320kbps) mp3 file - this is PLENTY
of resolution to be able to hear the differences. It's about a
2 1/2 minute long file, so it's not dragged out or anything
like that.
Here's the link... listen to how the DiMakina tune is VERY
competitive in volume to the fully-mastered major label
release, yet it's clearer, innit? Make sure you listen to the
whole thing, as there are a couple of SIGNIFICANT differences
right around the 2-minute mark/slighty thereafter.
http://saqqararecords.com/MiscAudio/VolumeWithClarityExample -Comparison.mp3
Hear all the high-end distortoshit up there in the Jensen-
Mastered piece? IOW, the stuff that's NOT there in mine? This
is what I've been trying to avoid, while acheiving competitive
volume levels, and I think I've landed on it now!
Comments welcome.
NeilOk.. Neil, I think you hit your Sonic Nirvana. Very clear, but with in your
face volume.
I still dig the Anberlin Mix. I like it's use of stero delays and verbs.
As for the Mastering, the top end distorion, i think makes for the overall
sound of the mix. It's not overly distorted, rather very smooth distorted
which , to me makes the mix sound well. I like good distortion. A little
dirt is good for a mix in that genre.
"Neil" <OIUOI@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>Ready? Got diapers handy? OK, let's DO IT!!!
>
>Below is a link to a sort of "mashup" I did between a song I
>recorded & mixed (that I think most of you have heard) and a
>typical heavily-compressed Mike Shipley-mixed/Ted Jensen-
>mastered tune. Now, ths is not a diss on Mike Shipley, who's
>got more p
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| Re: Paris Perspective: [message #87904 is a reply to message #87896] |
Tue, 10 July 2007 19:31 |
Rod Lincoln
Messages: 883
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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t;downloaded... or if you have USENET, there ya go!
>
>Since your son is on the road, is mp3 convenient for him? Just birning
the
>.wav to a CD might be better and more convenient... CD players are all
>over...
>
>
>
>"DJ" <animix _ at _ animas _ dot _ net> wrote in message
>news:46dc800f@linux...
>>
>> "JIm Drago" <jamesd@prospect.k12.or.us> wrote in message
>> news:46dc6fec$1@linux...
>>>
>>> OK My son is touring with his band and wants me to email him some of
the
>>> songs
>>> he has here in PARIS. So I'm thinking I somehow need to get them to Mp3.
>>> Will this work? Bounce to disk as a wav file, use what to convert to
Mp3.
>>> Thanks Jim
>>
>> Yes.that will work.
>>
>> ;o)
>>
>>
>
>"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>Inquiring minds wanna know... what's your typical track count
>and dB settings?
Track count on the DiMakina stuff was mid-20's to mid-30's,
depending on the song. I don't recall specifically what it was
on that particular song, but I can check & let you know if you
want. I know it was something like:
Kick
Snare
Hat
Toms L
Toms R
OH L
OH R
Bass Avalon 737
Bass MP2NV/Distressor
Guitars = probably about 8 to 10 tracks altogether (various
parts coming in & out, everything tracked in dual-mono, with
some things doubled).
Vocals = 7 or 8 tracks, as I recall (same kinda thing - various
parts coming in & out, two different singers using two
different mic & preamp setups on each one, some parts doubled,
yada, yada, yada).
So I guess that'd be 24 to maybe 28 tracks on that tune
altogether.
Not sure I know what you mean by typical db settings...
do you mean on specific channels, or RMS/PRMS measurements on
the 2-buss, or...???
If you mean on the 2-buss, I was able to get this song up into
the mid-to-low-4's PRMS... like around -4.3 was the hottest
part, as I recall. Mostly it was in the -4.7 range, PRMS.
Again, I'd have to re-check it to be certain.
Neil"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>
>hey Neil, how about email
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| Re: Paris Perspective: [message #87906 is a reply to message #87881] |
Tue, 10 July 2007 20:44 |
Dale
Messages: 77
Registered: September 2005
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Member |
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"_blank">carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>Neil, Neil Neil Neil Neil NEIL. Didn't crap my shorts on this one - and...
I
>don't even wanna be rude. Joe Jones and Reginal Hall anyone? Bah dum dum
>dum....
I'm not talking about the mixes in terms of whether you
like 'em or not - I'm talking about the volume wars issue...
IOW, finding a way to get that competitive volume WITHOUT the
usual inherent distortion - you don't think this represents
a major accomplishment? Geez, I do! :D
NeilDJ I really like the Neve 88rs too. Unfortunatly, this new version of the
UAD software broke the ability to render plugs in Paris, at least for me.
I couldn't get anyone else to respond that uses it in Paris. I'm not quite
ready to start mixing in cubase yet so, I can't decide whether to ask UAD
if they can de-authorize me for the 88 RS or not. bummer
Rod
"DJ" <animix _ at _ animas _ dot _ net> wrote:
>One thing I always liked about Paris was how I could push it and it wouldn't
>get small on me and at the same time the mix would gel without sounding
>overcompressed.
>
>I "think" I'm getting there now. I had to take a hiatus from mixing for
>about three weeks while helping Amy nurse Crash back to some semblance of
>health. He reinjured himself pretty bad about a week after we took off his
>cast and we were sweating bullets but didn't permanently damage the surgery,
>thank goodness, so now he's getting back up to speed and I have some time
to
>get into the studio again.
>
>I'm getting ready to post a couple of links up in a few minutes. OPne of
the
>songs you've heard (adnauseum) and the other you may have heard a long time
>ago. I never was hapy with a certain CD I mised a couple of years ago
>because I was in a ig rush. the first run of CD's is about to sell out and
I
>get a royalty on the sales so I'm remixing the entire project. Good practice
>on the new system.
>
>The processing on the mix us has the following processors (top to bottom).
>
>UAD-1 Precision EQ
>Neve Portico 5042
>UAD-1 Fairchild
>UAD-1 Precision Limiter.
>
>I'm using the UAD-1 Neve 88-RS console strip on every track of these mixes.
>This thing is the bees knees IMO.
>
>Stay tuned
>
>;o)
>
>
>
>
>Nope. Sorry man - the 'volume wars' is an old old argument. I'm glad that
you are excited about finding techniques that you like, but "OK Gang... get
ready to SHIT YOUR PANTS!!!" <<< that is a bit much. There are some truely
gifted engineers and musicians within this forum - and although I've
certainly plugged some mixes I've been excited about here - I would NEVER
even joke to these folks with a line like that.
respect,
-Carl
"Neil" <IOOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:46dd7ecd$1@linux...
>
> "Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
> >Neil, Neil Neil Neil Neil NEIL. Didn't crap my shorts on this one -
and...
> I
> >don't even wanna be rude. Joe Jones and Reginal Hall anyone? Bah dum dum
> >dum....
>
> I'm not talking about the mixes in terms of whether you
> like 'em or not - I'm talking about the volume wars issue...
> IOW, finding a way to get that competitive volume WITHOUT the
> usual inherent distortion - you don't think this represents
> a major accomplishment? Geez, I do! :D
>
> Neil:-) I *almost* bought one back then... but they didn't have a car deck
to match!
David.
Aaron Allen wrote:
> ROFL man.. you actually have a working one? I have to admit to googlin' that
> term, it was news to me. Looks like another case of Sony being business
> market stupid with a superior quality product.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elcaset
>
> AA
>
>
> "Paul Braun" <cygnus_nospam@ctgonline.org> wrote in message
> news:3s0nd3he34cdjhqpg59enui36ukm5kii3c@4ax.com...
>
>>On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 23:17:40 -0500, "Aaron Allen"
>><know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>LOL... I thought I was the only guy on the planet that had a DCC deck..
>>>oddly enough, mine still works.
>>>
>>>AA
>>
>>Oh yeah? Well, Mr. Smartypants, I'll see your DCC deck and raise you
>>one Elcaset deck.
>>
>>So there.
>>
>>pab
>
>
>Hey Neil,
I think you are on to something. There is a gritchiness in the
highs that your recording does not have.
How does the band like it?
DC
btw, there is a growth market available for the first young player
to rediscover clean guitar tone..."Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>Nope. Sorry man - the 'volume wars' is an old old argument. I'm glad that
>you are excited about finding techniques that you like, but "OK Gang...
get
>ready to SHIT YOUR PANTS!!!" <<< that is a bit much. There are some truely
>gifted engineers and musicians within this forum - and although I've
>certainly plugged some mixes I've been excited about here - I would NEVER
>even joke to these folks with a line like that.
Ahhh... once again, the reference was not to the mix, it was -
- oh, never mind, if you didn't get the first explanation,
you're not going to comprehend a 2nd or 3rd.
Please, continue to selectively filter all text in order to
extract the wrong inference in any post you come across.
NeilNo Neil - I get it, I think your mix isn't a good comparison.
"Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:46ddb325$1@linux...
>
> "Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
> >Nope. Sorry man - the 'volume wars' is an old old argument. I'm glad that
> >you are excited about finding techniques that you like, but "OK Gang...
> get
> >ready to SHIT YOUR PANTS!!!" <<< that is a bit much. There are some
truely
> >gifted engineers and musicians within this forum - and although I've
> >certainly plugged some mixes I've been excited about here - I would NEVER
> >even joke to these folks with a line like that.
>
> Ahhh... once again, the reference was not to the mix, it was -
> - oh, never mind, if you didn't get the first explanation,
> you're not going to comprehend a 2nd or 3rd.
>
> Please, continue to selectively filter all text in order to
> extract the wrong inference in any post you come across.
>
> Neil"Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>No Neil - I get it, I think your mix isn't a good comparison.
Umm, let's see - they're both mixes, one's been mas
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| Re: Paris Perspective: [message #87908 is a reply to message #87906] |
Tue, 10 July 2007 20:55 |
jp jpjonesnet
Messages: 1
Registered: July 2007
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Junior Member |
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rsion to the process.
>and what's the buss sitting at during a mix. Wait, that's 3
innit
Yes, you only said two, so no answer for that third one lol
Actually, I leave the Master at zero and set Ozone (and now
Elephant, too) both to -0.3.
Neil"Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>They liked the first version before the RMS/PRMS boost just
>fine, but they like this one even better (of course, why
>wouldn't they - it's LOUDER! lol).
Good, now get a check!
heh
DCThanks Niel,
It did unzip as a .dll in the mac, so I'll give er' a try!
Steve
"Neil" <OIUOI@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>"Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net> wrote:
>>
>>Can anyone tell me how to install the Tube Driver vO.961 I have a Mac G4
>
>Steve, it's probably PC-only, but you can try simply unzipping
>the file & moving the .dll file to your vst plugins folder &
>see if it shows up.
>
>Neil"Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>Neil, your mix doesn't come close to the depth, thickness or balance of
the
>other one. It's apples and oranges. I do think it's great that you found
>something you're diggin on though.
OK, one more time... look, I am NOT comparing mixes in the
sense of saying: "ooh, my mix is better than that one"; I like
that other mix a lot - fact is, though, it's got that typical
modern rock, overcompressed mastered-in dirt in the quest of
loudness. The ONLY comparison I was making between the two -
and it IS a fair comparison, because it's a straight a/b "which
sounds louder" comparison - is that mine is equally loud, if
not louder in similarly-structered sections, and furthermore
it's loud WITHOUT the dirt/grit/distortocrap.
Now, if you've found a way to achieve getting into the mid-4's
PRMS range prior to this, all the whie keeping it clean &
clear, then goody on ya, but I - and I know the same goes for
just about everyone on this NG, because we've had any number of
discussions on this very topic - have not. So, that's the pants-
shitting part... that I've found a way to do it and am telling
everyone here what I used in case they want to try it.
Why do I even fucking bother with this sort of thing? Seems
like every time I do, somebody comes along & crashes the party,
saying this or that comparison was unfair for one imagined
reason or another. Does anyone else feel the test was "unfair"?
If so, just convert that mp3 file to a wav & import it into any
application you have that you can insert whatever plugin you
use to measure RMS & PRMS. You'll see that the segments of the
file that contain my mix will measure around the -4.3 to -4.7
range PRMS in the loudest places; that number can't be faked,
manufactured, or otherwise manipulated - it is what it is.
Geez!
NeilJust wondering if anybody had any thoughts on Stewart power amps, I'm looking
at a Stewart PA-50B. I'm thinking about using it to power some small reference
speakers.You can't copy and paste settings from one channel to the next? What a
POS!!!!"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:46ddfca5$1@linux...
>
I> Why do I even fucking bother with this sort of thing? Seems
> like every time I do, somebody comes along & crashes the party,
> saying this or that comparison was unfair for one imagined
> reason or another. Does anyone else feel the test was "unfair"?
Unless you do the same thing summing the mix of both songs on an SSL with a
Fairhampster 670 strapped across the mix buss and set to stun, then you've
proven nothing........haven't you learned this by now ?????
;oDI assume you are trying to copy channel settings (ctrl-c, ctrl-v) and the
channel's notepad text
isn't copying over - yep, not working.
The channel settings (inserts, etc) do copy over fine though. Correct?
"DJ" <animix _ at _ animas _ dot _ net> wrote in message
news:46de0d69$1@linux...
> You can't copy and paste settings from one channel to the next? What a
> POS!!!!
>
>
>Haven't seen one in many years... that's because most of
them around here are already at the land-fill! Horribly
unreliable, but OK sounding... nothing stellar to be sure.
Vaguely reminiscent of the little Yamaha '100 that was out
years ago.
David.
James McCloskey wrote:
> Just wondering if anybody had any thoughts on Stewart power amps, I'm looking
> at a Stewart PA-50B. I'm thinking about using it to power some small reference
> speakers.You don't actually want to copy *and* paste do you??? ;-)
David.
DJ wrote:
> You can't copy and paste settings from one channel to the next? What a
> POS!!!!
>
>
>On Sun, 2 Sep 2007 23:04:52 -0500, "Aaron Allen"
<know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>ROFL man.. you actually have a working one? I have to admit to googlin' that
>term, it was news to me. Looks like another case of Sony being business
>market stupid with a superior quality product.
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elcaset
>
Yep. Mine is by Technics - it's a rackmount pro model, with big VU
meters, separate level knobs, and a mechanical transport control.
Still works - I only have one tape, though. Haven't fired it up in
years.
pab"Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote in message news:46de1107$1@linux...
>I assume you are trying to copy channel settings (ctrl-c, ctrl-v) and the
>channel's notepad text
> isn't copying over - yep, not working.
>
> The channel settings (inserts, etc) do copy over fine though. Correct?
>
well.....uhhhh.......sure it works with key commands, but it doesn't work
with "right click" and therefore it's a POS.
;o)"Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:46de14db@linux...
> You don't actually want to copy *and* paste do you??? ;-)
>
> David.
>
> DJ wrote:
>
>> You can't copy and paste settings from one channel to the next? What a
>> POS!!!!
>>
What I really want to do is bitmap those templates you made for me into the
Notepad section with an option to expand them to full size, then have a draw
tool that will allow me to mark the settings, save them, then save the .bmp
to the notepad field. WTF won't it let me do this?? What on earth were they
thinking when they designed this pile of doo doo?
;o)You mean right click, "Save selected channels", right click, "Load selected
channels" doesn't work?
;-)
"DJ" <animix _ at _ animas _ dot _ net> wrote in message
news:46de16ce$1@linux...
>
> "Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote in message
> news:46de1107$1@linux...
>>I assume you are trying to copy channel settings (ctrl-c, ctrl-v) and the
>>channel's notepad text
>> isn't copying over - yep, not working.
>>
>> The channel settings (inserts, etc) do copy over fine though. Correct?
>>
>
> well.....uhhhh.......sure it works with key commands, but it doesn't work
> with "right click" and therefore it's a POS.
>
> ;o)
>
>I agree wih you about voxengo Elephant. That's one mean Mastering plugin.
Very Powerful. I have only played with the demo, but what I remember is how
powerful and it was. Voxengo, very underrated plugin maker(s)..
Like Kjaerhus plugins http://www.kjaerhusaudio.com/ Killer. Check out their
Free Plugins. Their Delay and compressor (free) is my go to for those effects.<
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| Re: Paris Perspective: [message #87909 is a reply to message #87904] |
Tue, 10 July 2007 21:02 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
|
Senior Member |
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br />
The Golden Compressor is processor intensive, but is great at what it doeshttp://www.kjaerhusaudio.com/gco-1.php
.
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>
>>That's great to know. I'm gonna have to try that out after I track down
>Neil's
>>sonic nirvana. Thanks
>>John
>
>Izotope Ozone followed by Voxengo Elephant on the 2-buss.
>Elephant is capable of processing internally at up to four
>times the samplerate (or 2x in my case, since i'm at 88.2k),
>and I think that's part of what's enabling me to get those few
>extra db without sacrificing clarity.
>
>I also think that recording at 88.2k makes a difference from
>the get-go, but I'm not in the mood to argue that point again.
>The results are in, though, and I think the combination works.
>
>Neil'nards? 'nards?! Like in "Revenge of the 'Nards"? Cannards?
:)
S
"Mike R." <emarenot@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:46dca326@linux...
> Hey Neil
> I stumbled on these guys a little while ago. I thought the same thing:
> "ah,
> melody." Definately pop, but its got some 'nards too.
> MR
>
> "Neil" <OUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:46db27c1$1@linux...
>>
>> Maybe we're getting past the post-punk phase... I'm starting to
>> hear some evidence of melody & musicianship in a few scattered
>> places.
>>
>> Go to this link & check out the cut called "Godspeed":
>>
>> http://www.myspace.com/anberlin
>>
>> Now THAT's the way rock should be played (and sung), innit?
>>
>> "Adelaide" is not too bad, either.
>>
>> Neil
>
>you need to chill dude, you sound like a 3 year oldBuy this or die. :-)
http://www.proxl.nl/cms/Products/VstNotesXL/So... when we got the PTHD rig last year, we also bought a Glyph
FW800 Raid0 500GB table top drive to use as a way to move sessions
to/from other studios and for back-up. Anyway, I went to fire up the
system the other day and the drive just sat there and flashed at me...
not good. I call Glyph as it's under warranty... a human answers the
phone, and passes me to another human who gives me an RA number. I
Fedex the drive off. I get a phone call from Raymond the tech, 3
hours after Fedex reports they delivered the drive... one of the hard
drives was dead. Raymond had removed the controller board from the
good drive and installed it in the dead drive, cloned the dead drive,
reinstalled the controller board into the good drive and reassembled
the unit. No data lost and it's ready to ship back.
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| Re: Paris Perspective: [message #87911 is a reply to message #87906] |
Tue, 10 July 2007 21:52 |
Tom Bruhl
Messages: 1368
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
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t; the good drive and reassembled the unit. No data lost and it's ready to
> ship back.... in 3 hours.
>
> Buy stuff from these people... I know I will again.
>
> David.actually it's a football cheer
GO NARDS GO NARDS GO NARDS GO
On Wed, 5 Sep 2007 01:45:03 -0700, "Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com>
wrote:
>'nards? 'nards?! Like in "Revenge of the 'Nards"? Cannards?
>:)
>
>S
>
>
>"Mike R." <emarenot@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:46dca326@linux...
>> Hey Neil
>> I stumbled on these guys a little while ago. I thought the same thing:
>> "ah,
>> melody." Definately pop, but its got some 'nards too.
>> MR
>>
>> "Neil" <OUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:46db27c1$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Maybe we're getting past the post-punk phase... I'm starting to
>>> hear some evidence of melody & musicianship in a few scattered
>>> places.
>>>
>>> Go to this link & check out the cut called "Godspeed":
>>>
>>> http://www.myspace.com/anberlin
>>>
>>> Now THAT's the way rock should be played (and sung), innit?
>>>
>>> "Adelaide" is not too bad, either.
>>>
>>> Neil
>>
>>
>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20427730/?GT1=10357With the Worst President Ever I don't think my confidence can go any lower.
In fact, I'm sure of it and with both dems and repubs sucking so bad it's
a trifecta in play ! Go fark !Attention Everyone:
Just want you to be aware there is a dangerous virus being passed around
electronically, orally, and by hand. This virus is called Worm Overload
Recreational Killer (WORK). If you receive WORK from any of your colleagues,
your boss, or anyone else via any means DO NOT TOUCH IT. This virus will
wipe out your private life completely.
If you should come into contact with WORK, put your jacket on and take two
good friends to the nearest grocery store. Purchase the antidote known as
Work Isolating Neutralizer Extract (WINE) or Bothersome Employer Elimination
Rebooter (BEER). Take the antidote repeatedly until WORK has been completely
eliminated from your system.
You should forward this warning to five friends. If you do not have five
friends, you have already been infected and WORK is controlling your life.Went and saw Colin Hay (former lead singer and songwriter for Men At
Work) the other night.
Now, I was never a MAW fan. Didn't hate them, just never really got
into them.
But I heard one of Colin's solo tunes, and really liked it, so I gave
it a shot.
Wow. I was blown away. Amazing songwriter, still has the voice, is
very personable on stage. I instantly became a fan. Picked up the
three cd's he had there that night, including one that had the
acoustic version of "Overkill" that he performed on "Scrubs".
Talked to him afterwards, got his agent's phone number - going to try
booking him solo for our new concert series.
He was joined on stage by his singer/dancer/wife, Cecelia, a stunning
Peruvian woman with substantial, uh....errr.....well.....maracas.
Enjoyed seeing her perform with them on stage...and those little
shaker-things as well.
If you get a chance to see him, either with the band or solo,
definitely do it.
pabNice to see that y'all can fight without me even being around.
Hate to think the place has gone soft....
DC
Hey Sarah, did you REALLY ask about nards??
"Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>No Neil - I get it, I think your mix isn't a good comparison.
>
>
>"Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:46ddb325$1@linux...
>>
>> "Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>> >Nope. Sorry man - the 'volume wars' is an old old argument. I'm glad
that
>> >you are excited about finding techniques that you like, but "OK Gang...
>> get
>> >ready to SHIT YOUR PANTS!!!" <<< that is a bit much. There are some
>truely
>> >gifted engineers and musicians within this forum - and although I've
>> >certainly plugged some mixes I've been excited about here - I would NEVER
>> >even joke to these folks with a line like that.
>>
>> Ahhh... once again, the reference was not to the mix, it was -
>> - oh, never mind, if you didn't get the first explanation,
>> you're not going to comprehend a 2nd or 3rd.
>>
>> Please, continue to selectively filter all text in order to
>> extract the wrong inference in any post you come across.
>>
>> Neil
>
>well of course she did...she's a nurse.
On 6 Sep 2007 14:43:59 +1000, "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>Nice to see that y'all can fight without me even being around.
>
>Hate to think the place has gone soft....
>
>DC
>
>Hey Sarah, did you REALLY ask about nards??
>
>
>
>"Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>>No Neil - I get it, I think your mix isn't a good comparison.
>>
>>
>>"Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:46ddb325$1@linux...
>>>
>>> "Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>>> >Nope. Sorry man - the 'volume wars' is an old old argument. I'm glad
>that
>>> >you are excited about finding techniques that you like, but "OK Gang...
>>> get
>>> >ready to SHIT YOUR PANTS!!!" <<< that is a bit much. There are some
>>truely
>>> >gifted engineers and musicians within this forum - and although I've
>>> >certainly plugged some mixes I've been excited about here - I would NEVER
>>> >even joke to these folks with a line like that.
>>>
>>> Ahhh... once again, the reference was not to the mix, it was -
>>> - oh, never mind, if you didn't get the first explanation,
>>> you're not going to comprehend a 2nd or 3rd.
>>>
>>> Please, continue to selectively filter all text in order to
>>> extract the wrong inference in any post you come across.
>>>
>>> Neil
>>
>>What government?
S
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:46df1e5d$1@linux...
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20427730/?GT1=10357"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:46dea0d4$1@linux...
>
> you need to chill dude, you sound like a 3 year old
John,
You obviously missed the tongue-in-cheek to all of this. If I sound like a 3
year old, then I submit that you are sounding like you are on the Cubase
development team and somehow cannot tolerate any criticism of your beloved
code........so I would say that a chill pill would definitely be in order on
your end. What is with your emotional investment in this? What should you
care? Do you own stock? Do you think my comments here will cause Steimberg
to stop development? I have been having a little fun, not threatening to sue
them on a public forum as did some of the members here years ago when the
Paris developers were posting to this forum. Those posts were instrumental
in in our loss of communication with Edmund and SSC. When I see the owners
of Steinberg post here (or anywhere) with personal tech support like Edmund
and Stephen did here, then I'll shit in my hat and wear it.
Cubase sucks..nya, nya nya nya nya........
;oP"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:920ud39cch27b0bjm0a8m5p6mun3qrofu9@4ax.com...
> actually it's a football cheer
>
> GO NARDS GO NARDS GO NARDS GO
>
I think that should read Gonads
heheI have a 2 year old (2, 3 what's the difference..).
She and DJ sound nothing alike. ;-))
She is cuter though... sorry DJ.
:-))
Dedric
On 9/6/07 6:10 AM, in article 46dfefb3@linux, "DJ" <animix _ at _ animas _
dot _ net> wrote:
>
> "John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:46dea0d4$1@linux...
>>
>> you need to chill dude, you sound like a 3 year old
>
> John,
>
> You obviously missed the tongue-in-cheek to all of this. If I sound like a 3
> year old, then I submit that you are sounding like you are on the Cubase
> development team and somehow cannot tolerate any criticism of your beloved
> code........so I would say that a chill pill would definitely be in order on
> your end. What is with your emotional investment in this? What should you
> care? Do you own stock? Do you think my comments here will cause Steimberg
> to stop development? I have been having a little fun, not threatening to sue
> them on a public forum as did some of the members here years ago when the
> Paris developers were posting to this forum. Those posts were instrumental
> in in our loss of communication with Edmund and SSC. When I see the owners
> of Steinberg post here (or anywhere) with personal tech support like Edmund
> and Stephen did here, then I'll shit in my hat and wear it.
>
> Cubase sucks..nya, nya nya nya nya........
>
> ;oP
>
>Hey Neil - just to tell you I would be very happy to get the results you got
!! and personally prefer yours to the pro master-
when you say you keep channel levels at -6 , your're talking about post
fader during mix down? as not to overload bus right ?
since switching from paris to sx , i have been frustrated with the tendancy
for the buss to get distorted at the slightest push .
again , just wanted to tell you i like the sound your getting-
-B
"Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:46ddd9b1$1@linux...
>
> "DC" <dc@spammersontheair.com> wrote:
>>
>>Hey Neil,
>>
>>I think you are on to something. There is a gritchiness in the
>>highs that your recording does not have.
>>
>>How does the band like it?
>
> They liked the first version before the RMS/PRMS boost just
> fine, but they like this one even better (of course, why
> wouldn't they - it's LOUDER! lol).
>
> Neil"Bart" <wmn987@yahoo.om> wrote:
>Hey Neil - just to tell you I would be very happy to get the results you
got
>!! and personally prefer yours to the pro master-
>when you say you keep channel levels at -6 , your're talking about post
>fader during mix down? as not to overload bus right ?
I'm talking about that's where I start the individual track
channels out at, not to "keep" them there. Obviously, you gotta
move 'em as you mix! And yes, part of the reason for that is to
not start off with an overstuffed mix bus. The analogy I use is
that if you're using an analog console, you woudn't start off by
pushing all your faders all the way up, would you? No - 'course
not. So why would you start off all your DAW channels at zero,
or what is essentially "all the way" up in the digital realm?
Paris being the exception, of course, since as we learned from
Chuck awhile back, in Paris "zero" is really "minus 20".
Group channels for EFX & whatnot, and also the Master - those I
leave at Zero.
>since switching from paris to sx , i have been frustrated with
>the tendancy for the buss to get distorted at the slightest
>push .
Yeah you can't push it, that's for sure - it's not like Paris
or like most analog consoles... you've got to get your glue
elsewhere.
>again , just wanted to tell you i like the sound your getting-
Cool - thanks!
Neil"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>What government?
The one that's good for nothing but voting itself pay raises
every year?"Paul Braun" <cygnus_nospam@ctgonline.org> wrote in message
news:01uud3hjbg4d6rvogm23ol1uko3p17jkas@4ax.com...
> Went and saw Colin Hay (former lead singer and songwriter for Men At
> Work) the other night.
Always loved MAW. I liked Colin's first solo cd but have since lost
track of him. Glad to know he's still making music.
You got me wanting some Heckle and Jive now.
dbWelll.........OK then!!!
;o)
"EK Sound" <askme@nospam.com> wrote in message news:46ded71f@linux...
> So... when we got the PTHD rig last year, we also bought a Glyph FW800
> Raid0 500GB table top drive to use as a way to move sessions to/from other
> studios and for back-up. Anyway, I went to fire up the system the other
> day and the drive just sat there and flashed at me... not good. I call
> Glyph as it's under warranty... a human answers the phone, and passes me
> to another human who gives me an RA number. I Fedex the drive off. I get
> a phone call from Raymond the tech, 3 hours after Fedex reports they
> delivered the drive... one of the hard drives was dead. Raymond had
> removed the controller board from the good drive and installed it in the
> dead drive, cloned the dead drive, reinstalled the controller board into
> the good drive and reassembled the unit. No data lost and it's ready to
> ship back.... in 3 hours.
>
> Buy stuff from these people... I know I will again.
>
> David.Well..........this is definitely slicker 'n snakeshit dude!!!!
If I don't have this I will surely die.
Thanks,
;o)
"John" <no@No.com> wrote in message news:46deaa5f$1@linux...
>
> Buy this or die. :-)
>
> http://www.proxl.nl/cms/Products/VstNotesXL/"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>'nards? 'nards?! Like in "Revenge of the 'Nards"? Cannards?
>:)
>
>S
>
>
>"Mike R." <emarenot@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:46dca326@linux...
>> Hey Neil
>> I stumbled on these guys a little while ago. I thought the same thing:
>> "ah,
>> melody." Definately pop, but its got some 'nards too.
>> MR
>>
>> "Neil" <OUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:46db27c1$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Maybe we're getting past the post-punk phase... I'm starting to
>>> hear some evidence of melody & musicianship in a few scattered
>>> places.
>>>
>>> Go to this link & check out the cut called "Godspeed":
>>>
>>> http://www.myspace.com/anberlin
>>>
>>> Now THAT's the way rock should be played (and sung), innit?
>>>
>>> "Adelaide" is not too bad, either.
>>>
>>> Neil
>>
>>
>
>Or you can do like me and take notes in Word. This way you can do notes for
all songs on an album in one file including your todo list and screenshots.Wayyyy........to easy....
;o)
"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:46e02df3$1@linux...
>
> Or you can do like me and take notes in Word. This way you can do notes
> for
> all songs on an album in one file including your todo list and
> screenshots.I still can't believe anyone considers GW to be the worst president ever.
Perhaps the most venal or smallest minded, but he's nowhere near our worst
ever. Wilson, McKinley, Buchanan, and van Buren were all FAR worse presidents
regardless of your individual politics.
"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>
>With the Worst President Ever I don't think my confidence can go any lower.
> In fact, I'm sure of it and with both dems and repubs sucking so bad it's
>a trifecta in play ! Go fark !"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:46df1e5d$1@linux...
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20427730/?GT1=10357
So if the government is so incompetent, how do we know those nukes would
even work if the planes crashed or the bombs were accidentally dropped on
Gomorr.....uhhh........San Francisco? There may have been no danger at all
and this is just FUD.
I think you're getting the cart before the horse here.
Proof.......I want proof........
;o)"DJ" <animix _ at _ animas _ dot _ net> wrote:
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:46df1e5d$1@linux...
>>
>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20427730/?GT1=10357
>
>So if the government is so incompetent, how do we know those nukes would
>even work if the planes crashed or the bombs were accidentally dropped on
>Gomorr.....uhhh........San Francisco? There may have been no danger at all
>and this is just FUD.
>
>I think you're getting the cart before the horse here.
>
>Proof.......I want proof........
>
>;o)
>
I think the scary thing is that there are supposed to be protocols that will
prevent this kind of thing from EVER happening, no matter what. The missiles
were supposed to be transported without the warheads, even if they were inactive.
That said, I'm not especially concerned by this if it's happened once in
sixty or so years.
As far as San Fran, I guess we can only hope that someone with highly evolved
(and stridently hetero) morality like Lot would have survived the nuclear
destruction by offering his daughters up for a long night of gang rape! Them's
some family values.
TCBhttp://antress.myweb.hinet.net/
Hase anyone seenthese new free plugins? The Graphics are Hot!! I'm getting
ready to check them out.. Let me know what you all think..MAN!!!Oh THOSE guys. Silly me. I was thinking a government would actually
govern. OK, I got it.
S
"Neil" <OIUIOU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:46e0001f$1@linux...
>
> "Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>>What government?
>
> The one that's good for nothing but voting itself pay raises
> every year?This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C7F0B8.71EA07C0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
LaMont,
If they sound half as good as they look they're worth the money.
T.
"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:46e078f0$1@linux...
http://antress.myweb.hinet.net/
Hase anyone seenthese new free plugins? The Graphics are Hot!! I'm =
getting
ready to check them out.. Let me know what you all think..MAN!!!
I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C7F0B8.71EA07C0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>LaMont,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If they sound half as good as they look =
they're=20
worth the money.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>T.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"LaMont" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:jjdpro@gmail.com">jjdpro@gmail.com</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:46e078f0$1@linux">news:46e078f0$1@linux</A>...</DIV><BR><A=20
=
href=3D"http://antress.myweb.hinet.net/">http://antress.myweb.hinet.net/<=
/A><BR><BR>Hase=20
anyone seenthese new free plugins? The Graphics are Hot!! I'm =
getting<BR>ready=20
to check them out.. Let me know what you all =
think..MAN!!!</BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR><BR>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, =
and=20
you?<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html">http://www.polesoft.com/refer=
..html</A> </FONT></DIV></BODY ></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C7F0B8.71EA07C0--I guess it would depend on your criteria for worseness, and I suppose the
usual criteria would be things like competence, corruptability, leadership
qualities, and legacy. History book type evaluations.
Here's why I myself consider Bush (and his administration) the worst ever:
1. His ignorant, ethnocentric, machismo Middle East policies have put
our country in far more danger than we were in prior to 9/11. Not only are
we more hated than before, but even some of our friends and allies have
backed away in a sort of frightened pity, like you might feel for a wounded
bear. Terror attacks have increased steadily around the world since the
Iraq invasion.
2. He would rather continue to let more tens of thousands of people die
needlessly than admit defeat, all the while completely unable to begin to
define what "victory" is. I can tell you what victory is: get those dirty
brown Muslim feet off our oil. But they won't tell you that.
3. Tens of thousands are already dead or maimed, and all for a lie.
Yes, I said a lie. Not a mistake, not bad intelligence (unless you're
talking about their brains), but an intentional deception . . . a lie. The
lie, of course, is that invading Iraq and anything to do with 9/11 or
anything to do with the "war on terror" at all. The truth is that before
the sun even came up on 9/12/2001, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Cheney, "Condi",
Bush and all were working out how to take advantage of this national tragedy
to promote their Iraq agenda. Don't take my word for it, Richard Clarke was
|
|
|
|
| Re: Paris Perspective: [message #87913 is a reply to message #87911] |
Tue, 10 July 2007 22:15 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
>
> wrote in message <A=20
> =
>href=3D"news:46e078f0$1@linux">news:46e078f0$1@linux</A>...</DIV><BR><A=20
> =
>href=3D"http://antress.myweb.hinet.net/">http://antress.myweb.hinet.net/<=
>/A><BR><BR>Hase=20
> anyone seenthese new free plugins? The Graphics are Hot!! I'm =
>getting<BR>ready=20
> to check them out.. Let me know what you all =
>think..MAN!!!</BLOCKQUOTE>
><DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR><BR>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, =
>and=20
>you?<BR><A=20
>href=3D"http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html">http://www.polesoft.com/refer=
>.html</A> </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0082_01C7F0C7.DB914F80
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
right, that's what I'm sayin' !
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message =
news:46e09f15$1@linux...
They're free!! OR make a donation..
"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>LaMont,
>If they sound half as good as they look they're worth the money.
>T.
>
>
> "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message =
news:46e078f0$1@linux...
>
> http://antress.myweb.hinet.net/
>
> Hase anyone seenthese new free plugins? The Graphics are Hot!! I'm =
=3D
>getting
> ready to check them out.. Let me know what you all think..MAN!!!
>
>
>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
>http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html =20
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><HTML><HEAD>
><META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D
>charset=3D3Diso-8859-1">
><META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3D3DGENERATOR>
><STYLE></STYLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>LaMont,</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>If they sound half as good as =
they look
=3D
>they're=3D20
>worth the money.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>T.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV> </DIV>
><BLOCKQUOTE=3D20
>style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
=3D
>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> <DIV>"LaMont" <<A =3D
>href=3D3D"mailto:jjdpro@gmail.com">jjdpro@gmail.com</A>>=3D20
> wrote in message <A=3D20
> =3D
=
>href=3D3D"news:46e078f0$1@linux">news:46e078f0$1@linux</A>...</DIV><BR><=
A=3D20
> =3D
=
>href=3D3D"http://antress.myweb.hinet.net/">http://antress.myweb.hinet.ne=
t/<=3D
>/A><BR><BR>Hase=3D20
> anyone seenthese new free plugins? The Graphics are Hot!! I'm =3D
>getting<BR>ready=3D20
> to check them out.. Let me know what you all =3D
>think..MAN!!!</BLOCKQUOTE>
><DIV><FONT size=3D3D2><BR><BR>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight =
spam, =3D
>and=3D20
>you?<BR><A=3D20
=
>href=3D3D"http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html">http://www.polesoft.com/re=
fer=3D
>.html</A> </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
>
------=_NextPart_000_0082_01C7F0C7.DB914F80
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>right, that's what I'm sayin' =
!</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"LaMont" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:jjdpro@ameritech.net">jjdpro@ameritech.net</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:46e09f15$1@linux">news:46e09f15$1@linux</A>...</DIV><BR>They=
're=20
free!! OR make a donation..<BR><BR>"Tom Bruhl" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>>=20
wrote:<BR>><BR>><BR>>LaMont,<BR>>If they sound half as =
good as=20
they look they're worth the =
money.<BR>>T.<BR>><BR>><BR>> =20
"LaMont" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:jjdpro@gmail.com">jjdpro@gmail.com</A>> wrote=20
in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:46e078f0$1@linux">news:46e078f0$1@linux</A>...<BR>><BR>&g=
t; =20
<A=20
=
href=3D"http://antress.myweb.hinet.net/">http://antress.myweb.hinet.net/<=
/A><BR>><BR>> =20
Hase anyone seenthese new free plugins? The Graphics are Hot!! I'm=20
=3D<BR>>getting<BR>> ready to check them out.. Let me know =
what you=20
all think..MAN!!!<BR>><BR>><BR>>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to =
fight=20
spam, and you?<BR>>http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html =20
<BR>><BR>><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0=20
Transitional//EN"><BR>><HTML><HEAD> <BR>><META=20
http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html;=20
=3D<BR>>charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"><BR>><META =
content=3D3D"MSHTML=20
6.00.2800.1400"=20
=
name=3D3DGENERATOR><BR>><STYLE></STYLE> <BR>></HEA=
D><BR>><BODY=20
bgColor=3D3D#ffffff><BR>><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial=20
=
size=3D3D2>LaMont,</FONT></DIV&a mp;gt; <BR>><DIV><FONT=
=20
face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>If they sound half as good as they=20
look<BR>=3D<BR>>they're=3D20<BR>>worth the=20
money.</FONT></DIV><BR>><DIV><FONT =
face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2>T.</FONT></DIV> ; <BR>><DIV><FONT=20
face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> =
</DIV><BR>><DIV>=20
=
</DIV><BR>><BLOCKQUOTE=3D20<BR >>style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px;=20
PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =3D<BR>>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 =
2px solid;=20
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><BR>> <DIV>"LaMont" <<A=20
=3D<BR>>href=3D3D"<A=20
=
href=3D'mailto:jjdpro@gmail.com">jjdpro@gmail.com</A>>=3D20'>mailto:jjdpr=
o@gmail.com">jjdpro@gmail.com</A>>=3D20</A><BR>> =20
wrote in message <A=3D20<BR>> =3D<BR>>href=3D3D"<A=20
=
href=3D'news:46e078f0$1@linux">news:46e078f0$1@linux</A>...</DIV><BR><A=3D=
20'>news:46e078f0$1@linux">news:46e078f0$1@linux</A>...</DIV&=
gt;<BR><A=3D20</A><BR>> =20
=3D<BR>>href=3D3D"<A=20
=
href=3D'http://antress.myweb.hinet.net/">http://antress.myweb.hinet.net/'=
>http://antress.myweb.hinet.net/">http://antress.myweb.hinet.net/</A>&=
lt;=3D<BR> >/A><BR><BR>Hase=3 D20 <BR>> =20
anyone seenthese new free plugins? The Graphics are Hot!! I'm=20
=3D<BR>>getting<BR>ready=3D20<BR>> to check them =
out.. Let me=20
know what you all=20
=3D<BR>>think..MAN!!!</BLOCKQUOTE><BR >><DIV><FONT =
size=3D3D2><BR><BR>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight =
spam,=20
=
=3D<BR>>and=3D20<BR>>you?<BR><A=3D20 <BR>>href=3D3D"<A=20
=
href=3D'http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html">http://www.polesoft.com/refer=
'>http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html">http://www.polesoft.com/refer</A=
>=3D<BR>>.html</A>=20
=
</FONT></DIV></BODY&g t;</HTML> <BR>><BR>><BR></=
BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0082_01C7F0C7.DB914F80--Don Nafe wrote:
> "rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:920ud39cch27b0bjm0a8m5p6mun3qrofu9@4ax.com...
>
>>actually it's a football cheer
>>
>>GO NARDS GO NARDS GO NARDS GO
>>
>
>
> I think that should read Gonads
Didn't Arnold Schwarzenneger play him in a movie?
;-p
JeffForyou Imac and Mac Pro book users... http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/duet.phpHi guys and gals, here is cut off my latest project, bluegrass in French.
Artist by the name of Paul Hebert out of eastern Canada.
Tracked and Mixed entirely in Paris.
http://www.studiomanitou.com/mp3demo/BonjourBonheur.mp3
RobNice!
Neil
"Rob Arsenault" <mani2 at nbnet dot nb.ca> wrote:
>Hi guys and gals, here is cut off my latest project, bluegrass in French.
>Artist by the name of Paul Hebert out of eastern Canada.
>
>Tracked and Mixed entirely in Paris.
>
>http://www.studiomanitou.com/mp3demo/BonjourBonheur.mp3
>
>Rob
>
>Here we go in to news group meltdown again, I shouldn't have made this post,
sorry.
"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>I guess it would depend on your criteria for worseness, and I suppose the
>usual criteria would be things like competence, corruptability, leadership
>qualities, and legacy. History book type evaluations.
>
>Here's why I myself consider Bush (and his administration) the worst ever:
>
> 1. His ignorant, ethnocentric, machismo Middle East policies have put
>our country in far more danger than we were in prior to 9/11. Not only
are
>we more hated than before, but even some of our friends and allies have
>backed away in a sort of frightened pity, like you might feel for a wounded
>bear. Terror attacks have increased steadily around the world since the
>Iraq invasion.
>
> 2. He would rather continue to let more tens of thousands of people
die
>needlessly than admit defeat, all the while completely unable to begin to
>define what "victory" is. I can tell you what victory is: get those dirty
>brown Muslim feet off our oil. But they won't tell you that.
>
> 3. Tens of thousands are already dead or maimed, and all for a lie.
>Yes, I said a lie. Not a mistake, not bad intelligence (unless you're
>talking about their brains), but an intentional deception . . . a lie.
The
>lie, of course, is that invading Iraq and anything to do with 9/11 or
>anything to do with the "war on terror" at all. The truth is that before
>the sun even came up on 9/12/2001, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Cheney, "Condi",
>Bush and all were working out how to take advantage of this national tragedy
>to promote their Iraq agenda. Don't take my word for it, Richard Clarke
was
>there with them on 9/11, 9/12, 9/13 etc., and tells the story in painful
>detail in his book Against All Enemies.
>
> 4. I'm sick of hearing people talk about how it's a mistake to think
>Bush is not intelligent, that beneath that lack of eloquence is a shrewd
>leader. Bah. The man has worse problems than language mangling. He
>clearly has reasoning problems, shows no evidence of conscience, and
>apparently has learning disabilities. My long distance diagnosis is
>alcoholic encephalopathy, but there may be some other substance abuse damage
>as well. But to put it simply, we have an evil moron for a president.
>
> 5. Why evil? Well, how 'bout the hypocrisy of calling oneself a
>Christian, talking about a personal relationship with Jesus/God, and then
>believing it's OK to decimate whole populations for one's personal gain.
>That just don't sound none too Christian to me.
>
> 6. Even if we could stop Bush and his band of Bushies right now, today,
>how many decades is it going to take to undo the damage? Will the USA ever
>again be the "Shining City on the Hill?" I hope so.
>
> Wilson, McKinley, Buchanan, and van Buren may have been incompetent
>and/or corrupt, but none had the ability that the Bush administration has
to
>make this planet unliveable.
>
> Bush and his whole greedy, lying crew belong in jail.
>
> And what did you do on YOUR summer vacation? :)
>
>S
>
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:46e0481a$1@linux...
>>
>> I still can't believe anyone considers GW to be the worst president ever.
>> Perhaps the most venal or smallest minded, but he's nowhere near our worst
>> ever. Wilson, McKinley, Buchanan, and van Buren were all FAR worse
>> presidents
>> regardless of your individual politics.
>>
>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>With the Worst President Ever I don't think my confidence can go any
>>>lower.
>>> In fact, I'm sure of it and with both dems and repubs sucking so bad
it's
>>>a trifecta in play ! Go fark !
>>
>
>Oh poo Sarah..........I can type lots more little symbols on my keyboard
that when strung together to make words which evolve into sentences, which
then evolve into paragraphs (which I can also number :o) that can then be
either interpreted to refute your little characters that make up words
(etc.) disputing the points you make or challengeing/discrediting those
whose statements, statistics and opinions you are reciting. Wanna see me do
it? Huh???...HUH!!!????.....do you???
(flexes digits in preparation for the typing equivalent of pulling a semi
truck with an unmentioned appendage and grunts in a manly way)
;o)
"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote in message news:46e09569$1@linux...
>I guess it would depend on your criteria for worseness, and I suppose the
>usual criteria would be things like competence, corruptability, leadership
>qualities, and legacy. History book type evaluations.
>
> Here's why I myself consider Bush (and his administration) the worst ever:
>
> 1. His ignorant, ethnocentric, machismo Middle East policies have put
> our country in far more danger than we were in prior to 9/11. Not only
> are we more hated than before, but even some of our friends and allies
> have backed away in a sort of frightened pity, like you might feel for a
> wounded bear. Terror attacks have increased steadily around the world
> since the Iraq invasion.
>
> 2. He would rather continue to let more tens of thousands of people die
> needlessly than admit defeat, all the while completely unable to begin to
> define what "victory" is. I can tell you what victory is: get those
> dirty brown Muslim feet off our oil. But they won't tell you that.
>
> 3. Tens of thousands are already dead or maimed, and all for a lie.
> Yes, I said a lie. Not a mistake, not bad intelligence (unless you're
> talking about their brains), but an intentional deception . . . a lie.
> The lie, of course, is that invading Iraq and anything to do with 9/11 or
> anything to do with the "war on terror" at all. The truth is that before
> the sun even came up on 9/12/2001, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Cheney, "Condi",
> Bush and all were working out how to take advantage of this national
> tragedy to promote their Iraq agenda. Don't take my word for it, Richard
> Clarke was there with them on 9/11, 9/12, 9/13 etc., and tells the story
> in painful detail in his book Against All Enemies.
>
> 4. I'm sick of hearing people talk about how it's a mistake to think
> Bush is not intelligent, that beneath that lack of eloquence is a shrewd
> leader. Bah. The man has worse problems than language mangling. He
> clearly has reasoning problems, shows no evidence of conscience, and
> apparently has learning disabilities. My long distance diagnosis is
> alcoholic encephalopathy, but there may be some other substance abuse
> damage as well. But to put it simply, we have an evil moron for a
> president.
>
> 5. Why evil? Well, how 'bout the hypocrisy of calling oneself a
> Christian, talking about a personal relationship with Jesus/God, and then
> believing it's OK to decimate whole populations for one's personal gain.
> That just don't sound none too Christian to me.
>
> 6. Even if we could stop Bush and his band of Bushies right now,
> today, how many decades is it going to take to undo the damage? Will the
> USA ever again be the "Shining City on the Hill?" I hope so.
>
> Wilson, McKinley, Buchanan, and van Buren may have been incompetent
> and/or corrupt, but none had the ability that the Bush administration has
> to make this planet unliveable.
>
> Bush and his whole greedy, lying crew belong in jail.
>
> And what did you do on YOUR summer vacation? :)
>
> S
>
>
> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:46e0481a$1@linux...
>>
>> I still can't believe anyone considers GW to be the worst president ever.
>> Perhaps the most venal or smallest minded, but he's nowhere near our
>> worst
>> ever. Wilson, McKinley, Buchanan, and van Buren were all FAR worse
>> presidents
>> regardless of your individual politics.
>>
>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>With the Worst President Ever I don't think my confidence can go any
>>>lower.
>>> In fact, I'm sure of it and with both dems and repubs sucking so bad
>>> it's
>>>a trifecta in play ! Go fark !
>>
>
>Sarah already knows all about poo.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
DJ wrote:
> Oh poo Sarah..........I can type lots more little symbols on my keyboard
> that when strung together to make words which evolve into sentences, which
> then evolve into paragraphs (which I can also number :o) that can then be
> either interpreted to refute your little characters that make up words
> (etc.) disputing the points you make or challengeing/discrediting those
> whose statements, statistics and opinions you are reciting. Wanna see me do
> it? Huh???...HUH!!!????.....do you???
>
> (flexes digits in preparation for the typing equivalent of pulling a semi
> truck with an unmentioned appendage and grunts in a manly way)
>
> ;o)
>
>
> "Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote in message news:46e09569$1@linux...
>> I guess it would depend on your criteria for worseness, and I suppose the
>> usual criteria would be things like competence, corruptability, leadership
>> qualities, and legacy. History book type evaluations.
>>
>> Here's why I myself consider Bush (and his administration) the worst ever:
>>
>> 1. His ignorant, ethnocentric, machismo Middle East policies have put
>> our country in far more danger than we were in prior to 9/11. Not only
>> are we more hated than before, but even some of our friends and allies
>> have backed away in a sort of frightened pity, like you might feel for a
>> wounded bear. Terror attacks have increased steadily around the world
>> since the Iraq invasion.
>>
>> 2. He would rather continue to let more tens of thousands of people die
>> needlessly than admit defeat, all the while completely unable to begin to
>> define what "victory" is. I can tell you what victory is: get those
>> dirty brown Muslim feet off our oil. But they won't tell you that.
>>
>> 3. Tens of thousands are already dead or maimed, and all for a lie.
>> Yes, I said a lie. Not a mistake, not bad intelligence (unless you're
>> talking about their brains), but an intentional deception . . . a lie.
>> The lie, of course, is that invading Iraq and anything to do with 9/11 or
>> anything t
|
|
|
|
| Re: Paris Perspective: [message #87914 is a reply to message #87909] |
Tue, 10 July 2007 22:23 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
o do with the "war on terror" at all. The truth is that before
>> the sun even came up on 9/12/2001, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Cheney, "Condi",
>> Bush and all were working out how to take advantage of this national
>> tragedy to promote their Iraq agenda. Don't take my word for it, Richard
>> Clarke was there with them on 9/11, 9/12, 9/13 etc., and tells the story
>> in painful detail in his book Against All Enemies.
>>
>> 4. I'm sick of hearing people talk about how it's a mistake to think
>> Bush is not intelligent, that beneath that lack of eloquence is a shrewd
>> leader. Bah. The man has worse problems than language mangling. He
>> clearly has reasoning problems, shows no evidence of conscience, and
>> apparently has learning disabilities. My long distance diagnosis is
>> alcoholic encephalopathy, but there may be some other substance abuse
>> damage as well. But to put it simply, we have an evil moron for a
>> president.
>>
>> 5. Why evil? Well, how 'bout the hypocrisy of calling oneself a
>> Christian, talking about a personal relationship with Jesus/God, and then
>> believing it's OK to decimate whole populations for one's personal gain.
>> That just don't sound none too Christian to me.
>>
>> 6. Even if we could stop Bush and his band of Bushies right now,
>> today, how many decades is it going to take to undo the damage? Will the
>> USA ever again be the "Shining City on the Hill?" I hope so.
>>
>> Wilson, McKinley, Buchanan, and van Buren may have been incompetent
>> and/or corrupt, but none had the ability that the Bush administration has
>> to make this planet unliveable.
>>
>> Bush and his whole greedy, lying crew belong in jail.
>>
>> And what did you do on YOUR summer vacation? :)
>>
>> S
>>
>>
>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:46e0481a$1@linux...
>>> I still can't believe anyone considers GW to be the worst president ever.
>>> Perhaps the most venal or smallest minded, but he's nowhere near our
>>> worst
>>> ever. Wilson, McKinley, Buchanan, and van Buren were all FAR worse
>>> presidents
>>> regardless of your individual politics.
>>>
>>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>> With the Worst President Ever I don't think my confidence can go any
>>>> lower.
>>>> In fact, I'm sure of it and with both dems and repubs sucking so bad
>>>> it's
>>>> a trifecta in play ! Go fark !
>>
>
>A MOLDED BREAKOUT CABLE for all the i/o connections??!?
Who thought THAT was a good idea?
Looks pretty fragile for something meant to go on the road.
Probably sounds nice, though.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
LaMont wrote:
> Foryou Imac and Mac Pro book users... http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/duet.php"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
> Wilson, McKinley, Buchanan, and van Buren may have been incompetent
>and/or corrupt, but none had the ability that the Bush administration has
to
>make this planet unliveable.
Good thing those extremists that want to impose a set of laws
based on societal mores from two millennia ago, or in the
absence of their ability to do so would rather kill those who
don't like their particular ideology, don't have anything to do
with out current situation.
Yep, let's just blame the ones that are trying to deal with it
instead - that makes MUCH more sense.I need a beer...
DCThis is a multi-part message in MIME format.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Paris Perspective: [message #87916 is a reply to message #87913] |
Tue, 10 July 2007 22:29 |
Kim
Messages: 1246
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
/EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16525" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Tom Bruhl" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>> wrote =
in message=20
<A href=3D"news:46e0a2af@linux">news:46e0a2af@linux</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>right, that's what I'm sayin' =
!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The Dallas Cowboys used to win a lot =
of games=20
because of those pretty uniforms back in the Tom Landry=20
days.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C7F0DC.39CC9A50--Well, is anyone gonna download these puppies, try 'em out, and
let us know how they sound?
Neil
"DJ" <animix _ at _ animas _ dot _ net> wrote:
>
>
>
> "Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote in message =
>news:46e0a2af@linux...
> right, that's what I'm sayin' !
>
> The Dallas Cowboys used to win a lot of games because of those pretty
=
>uniforms back in the Tom Landry days.
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><HTML><HEAD>
><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16525" name=3DGENERATOR>
><STYLE></STYLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
>style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> <DIV>"Tom Bruhl" <<A=20
> href=3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>> wrote =
>in message=20
> <A href=3D"news:46e0a2af@linux">news:46e0a2af@linux</A>...</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>right, that's what I'm sayin' =
>!</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The Dallas Cowboys used to win a lot
=
>of games=20
> because of those pretty uniforms back in the Tom Landry=20
>days.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
>
>"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote:
>Most of my clients sweat at least a little blood for every dollar they pay
>me. I have to try to strike a ballance between what I want and what they
>need.
What do you mean by what you want? Do you mean what you want
in terms of payment for the work, or what you want in terms of
what you think the finished product could or should sound like?
NeilYe-Haw, magnifique.
Gene
"Rob Arsenault" <mani2 at nbnet dot nb.ca> wrote:
>Hi guys and gals, here is cut off my latest project, bluegrass in French.
>Artist by the name of Paul Hebert out of eastern Canada.
>
>Tracked and Mixed entirely in Paris.
>
>http://www.studiomanitou.com/mp3demo/BonjourBonheur.mp3
>
>Rob
>
>Dad-gummit, that sounds great! All the sounds are fabulous, and the singing
and playing is terrific.
Well done!
Chrishttp://www.overloud.com/en/products/It's OK James, I shouldn't have responded. :)
S
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:46e0bcc6$1@linux...
>
> Here we go in to news group meltdown again, I shouldn't have made this
> post,
> sorry.
>
> "Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>>I guess it would depend on your criteria for worseness, and I suppose the
>
>>usual criteria would be things like competence, corruptability, leadership
>
>>qualities, and legacy. History book type evaluations.
>>
>>Here's why I myself consider Bush (and his administration) the worst ever:
>>
>> 1. His ignorant, ethnocentric, machismo Middle East policies have put
>
>>our country in far more danger than we were in prior to 9/11. Not only
> are
>>we more hated than before, but even some of our friends and allies have
>
>>backed away in a sort of frightened pity, like you might feel for a
>>wounded
>
>>bear. Terror attacks have increased steadily around the world since the
>
>>Iraq invasion.
>>
>> 2. He would rather continue to let more tens of thousands of people
> die
>>needlessly than admit defeat, all the while completely unable to begin to
>
>>define what "victory" is. I can tell you what victory is: get those
>>dirty
>
>>brown Muslim feet off our oil. But they won't tell you that.
>>
>> 3. Tens of thousands are already dead or maimed, and all for a lie.
>
>>Yes, I said a lie. Not a mistake, not bad intelligence (unless you're
>>talking about their brains), but an intentional deception . . . a lie.
> The
>>lie, of course, is that invading Iraq and anything to do with 9/11 or
>>anything to do with the "war on terror" at all. The truth is that before
>
>>the sun even came up on 9/12/2001, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Cheney, "Condi",
>
>>Bush and all were working out how to take advantage of this national
>>tragedy
>
>>to promote their Iraq agenda. Don't take my word for it, Richard Clarke
> was
>>there with them on 9/11, 9/12, 9/13 etc., and tells the story in painful
>
>>detail in his book Against All Enemies.
>>
>> 4. I'm sick of hearing people talk about how it's a mistake to think
>
>>Bush is not intelligent, that beneath that lack of eloquence is a shrewd
>
>>leader. Bah. The man has worse problems than language mangling. He
>>clearly has reasoning problems, shows no evidence of conscience, and
>>apparently has learning disabilities. My long distance diagnosis is
>>alcoholic encephalopathy, but there may be some other substance abuse
>>damage
>
>>as well. But to put it simply, we have an evil moron for a president.
>>
>> 5. Why evil? Well, how 'bout the hypocrisy of calling oneself a
>>Christian, talking about a personal relationship with Jesus/God, and then
>
>>believing it's OK to decimate whole populations for one's personal gain.
>
>>That just don't sound none too Christian to me.
>>
>> 6. Even if we could stop Bush and his band of Bushies right now,
>> today,
>
>>how many decades is it going to take to undo the damage? Will the USA
>>ever
>
>>again be the "Shining City on the Hill?" I hope so.
>>
>> Wilson, McKinley, Buchanan, and van Buren may have been incompetent
>
>>and/or corrupt, but none had the ability that the Bush administration has
> to
>>make this planet unliveable.
>>
>> Bush and his whole greedy, lying crew belong in jail.
>>
>> And what did you do on YOUR summer vacation? :)
>>
>>S
>>
>>
>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:46e0481a$1@linux...
>>>
>>> I still can't believe anyone considers GW to be the worst president
>>> ever.
>>> Perhaps the most venal or smallest minded, but he's nowhere near our
>>> worst
>>> ever. Wilson, McKinley, Buchanan, and van Buren were all FAR worse
>>> presidents
>>> regardless of your individual politics.
>>>
>>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>With the Worst President Ever I don't think my confidence can go any
>>>>lower.
>>>> In fact, I'm sure of it and with both dems and repubs sucking so bad
> it's
>>>>a trifecta in play ! Go fark !
>>>
>>
>>
>Boy do I ever.
S
"Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:46e0c134@linux...
>
> Sarah already knows all about poo.
>
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
> DJ wrote:
>> Oh poo Sarah..........I can type lots more little symbols on my keyboard
>> that when strung together to make words which evolve into sentences,
>> which then evolve into paragraphs (which I can also number :o) that can
>> then be either interpreted to refute your little characters that make up
>> words (etc.) disputing the points you make or challengeing/discrediting
>> those whose statements, statistics and opinions you are reciting. Wanna
>> see me do it? Huh???...HUH!!!????.....do you???
>>
>> (flexes digits in preparation for the typing equivalent of pulling a semi
>> truck with an unmentioned appendage and grunts in a manly way)
>>
>> ;o)
>>
>>
>> "Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote in message
>> news:46e09569$1@linux...
>>> I guess it would depend on your criteria for worseness, and I suppose
>>> the usual criteria would be things like competence, corruptability,
>>> leadership qualities, and legacy. History book type evaluations.
>>>
>>> Here's why I myself consider Bush (and his administration) the worst
>>> ever:
>>>
>>> 1. His ignorant, ethnocentric, machismo Middle East policies have
>>> put our country in far more danger than we were in prior to 9/11. Not
>>> only are we more hated than before, but even some of our friends and
>>> allies have backed away in a sort of frightened pity, like you might
>>> feel for a wounded bear. Terror attacks have increased steadily around
>>> the world since the Iraq invasion.
>>>
>>> 2. He would rather continue to let more tens of thousands of people
>>> die needlessly than admit defeat, all the while completely unable to
>>> begin to define what "victory" is. I can tell you what victory is: get
>>> those dirty brown Muslim feet off our oil. But they won't tell you
>>> that.
>>>
>>> 3. Tens of thousands are already dead or maimed, and all for a lie.
>>> Yes, I said a lie. Not a mistake, not bad intelligence (unless you're
>>> talking about their brains), but an intentional deception . . . a lie.
>>> The lie, of course, is that invading Iraq and anything to do with 9/11
>>> or anything to do with the "war on terror" at all. The truth is that
>>> before the sun even came up on 9/12/2001, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Cheney,
>>> "Condi", Bush and all were working out how to take advantage of this
>>> national tragedy to promote their Iraq agenda. Don't take my word for
>>> it, Richard Clarke was there with them on 9/11, 9/12, 9/13 etc., and
>>> tells the story in painful detail in his book Against All Enemies.
>>>
>>> 4. I'm sick of hearing people talk about how it's a mistake to think
>>> Bush is not intelligent, that beneath that lack of eloquence is a shrewd
>>> leader. Bah. The man has worse problems than language mangling. He
>>> clearly has reasoning problems, shows no evidence of conscience, and
>>> apparently has learning disabilities. My long distance diagnosis is
>>> alcoholic encephalopathy, but there may be some other substance abuse
>>> damage as well. But to put it simply, we have an evil moron for a
>>> president.
>>>
>>> 5. Why evil? Well, how 'bout the hypocrisy of calling oneself a
>>> Christian, talking about a personal relationship with Jesus/God, and
>>> then believing it's OK to decimate whole populations for one's personal
>>> gain. That just don't sound none too Christian to me.
>>>
>>> 6. Even if we could stop Bush and his band of Bushies right now,
>>> today, how many decades is it going to take to undo the damage? Will
>>> the USA ever again be the "Shining City on the Hill?" I hope so.
>>>
>>> Wilson, McKinley, Buchanan, and van Buren may have been incompetent
>>> and/or corrupt, but none had the ability that the Bush administration
>>> has to make this planet unliveable.
>>>
>>> Bush and his whole greedy, lying crew belong in jail.
>>>
>>> And what did you do on YOUR summer vacation? :)
>>>
>>> S
>>>
>>>
>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:46e0481a$1@linux...
>>>> I still can't believe anyone considers GW to be the worst president
>>>> ever.
>>>> Perhaps the most venal or smallest minded, but he's nowhere near our
>>>> worst
>>>> ever. Wilson, McKinley, Buchanan, and van Buren were all FAR worse
>>>> presidents
>>>> regardless of your individual politics.
>>>>
>>>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>> With the Worst President Ever I don't think my confidence can go any
>>>>> lower.
>>>>> In fact, I'm sure of it and with both dems and repubs sucking so bad
>>>>> it's
>>>>> a trifecta in play ! Go fark !
>>>
>>Yeah, good thing.
Wait a minute . . . somebody's trying to deal with it? Guess I missed that.
Who would that be?
S
"Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:46e0c54f$1@linux...
>
> "Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>> Wilson, McKinley, Buchanan, and van Buren may have been incompetent
>
>>and/or corrupt, but none had the ability that the Bush administration has
> to
>>make this planet unliveable.
>
> Good thing those extremists that want to impose a set of laws
> based on societal mores from two millennia ago, or in the
> absence of their ability to do so would rather kill those who
> don't like their particular ideology, don't have anything to do
> with out current situation.
> Yep, let's just blame the ones that are trying to deal with it
> instead - that makes MUCH more sense.
>
>Boy do I ever.
S
"DJ" <animix _ at _ animas _ dot _ net> wrote in message
news:46e0c04e@linux...
> Oh poo Sarah..........I can type lots more little symbols on my keyboard
> that when strung together to make words which evolve into sentences, which
> then evolve into paragraphs (which I can also number :o) that can then be
> either interpreted to refute your little characters that make up words
> (etc.) disputing the points you make or challengeing/discrediting those
> whose statements, statistics and opinions you are reciting. Wanna see me
> do it? Huh???...HUH!!!????.....do you???
>
> (flexes digits in preparation for the typing equivalent of pulling a semi
> truck with an unmentioned appendage and grunts in a manly way)
>
> ;o)
>
>
> "Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote in message
> news:46e09569$1@linux...
>>I guess it would depend on your criteria for worseness, and I suppose the
>>usual criteria would be things like competence, corruptability, leadership
>>qualities, and legacy. History book type evaluations.
>>
>> Here's why I myself consider Bush (and his administration) the worst
>> ever:
>>
>> 1. His ignorant, ethnocentric, machismo Middle East policies have put
>> our country in far more danger than we were in prior to 9/11. Not only
>> are we more hated than before, but even some of our friends and allies
>> have backed away in a sort of frightened pity, like you might feel for a
>> wounded bear. Terror attacks have increased steadily around the world
>> since the Iraq invasion.
>>
>> 2. He would rather continue to let more tens of thousands of people
>> die needlessly than admit defeat, all the while completely unable to
>> begin to define what "victory" is. I can tell you what victory is: get
>> those dirty brown Muslim feet off our oil. But they won't tell you that.
>>
>> 3. Tens of thousands are already dead or maimed, and all for a lie.
>> Yes, I said a lie. Not a mistake, not bad intelligence (unless you're
>> talking about their brains), but an intentional deception . . . a lie.
>> The lie, of course, is that invading Iraq and anything to do with 9/11 or
>> anything to do with the "war on terror" at all. The truth is that before
>> the sun even came up on 9/12/2001, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Cheney, "Condi",
>> Bush and all were working out how to take advantage of this national
>> tragedy to promote their Iraq agenda. Don't take my word for it, Richard
>> Clarke was there with them on 9/11, 9/12, 9/13 etc., and tells the story
>> in painful detail in his book Against All Enemies.
>>
>> 4. I'm sick of hearing people talk about how it's a mistake to think
>> Bush is not intelligent, that beneath that lack of eloquence is a shrewd
>> leader. Bah. The man has worse problems than language mangling. He
>> clearly has reasoning problems, shows no evidence of conscience, and
>> apparently has learning disabilities. My long distance diagnosis is
>> alcoholic encephalopathy, but there may be some other substance abuse
>> damage as well. But to put it simply, we have an evil moron for a
>> president.
>>
>> 5. Why evil? Well, how 'bout the hypocrisy of calling oneself a
>> Christian, talking about a personal relationship with Jesus/God, and then
>> believing it's OK to decimate whole populations for one's personal gain.
>> That just don't sound none too Christian to me.
>>
>> 6. Even if we could stop Bush and his band of Bushies right now,
>> today, how many decades is it going to take to undo the damage? Will the
>> USA ever again be the "Shining City on the Hill?" I hope so.
>>
>> Wilson, McKinley, Buchanan, and van Buren may have been incompetent
>> and/or corrupt, but none had the ability that the Bush administration has
>> to make this planet unliveable.
>>
>> Bush and his whole greedy, lying crew belong in jail.
>>
>> And what did you do on YOUR summer vacation? :)
>>
>> S
>>
>>
>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:46e0481a$1@linux...
>>>
>>> I still can't believe anyone considers GW to be the worst president
>>> ever.
>>> Perhaps the most venal or smallest minded, but he's nowhere near our
>>> worst
>>> ever. Wilson, McKinley, Buchanan, and van Buren were all FAR worse
>>> presidents
>>> regardless of your individual politics.
>>>
>>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>With the Worst President Ever I don't think my confidence can go any
>>>>lower.
>>>> In fact, I'm sure of it and with both dems and repubs sucking so bad
>>>> it's
>>>>a trifecta in play ! Go fark !
>>>
>>
>>
>
>Come on over. All I got's Black Butte Porter, though . . .
s
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message news:46e0d8ff$1@linux...
>
> I need a beer...
>
>
> DC
>Wow, sounds great. And those guys are hot. But if it's bluegrass in French
doesn't that make it Cajun? :)
S
"Rob Arsenault" <mani2 at nbnet dot nb.ca> wrote in message
news:46e0b6bd@linux...
> Hi guys and gals, here is cut off my latest project, bluegrass in French.
> Artist by the name of Paul Hebert out of eastern Canada.
>
> Tracked and Mixed entirely in Paris.
>
> http://www.studiomanitou.com/mp3demo/BonjourBonheur.mp3
>
> Rob
>got him elected didn't it...
On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 19:09:07 -0700, Jeff Hoover <jkhoover@excite.com>
wrote:
>Don Nafe wrote:
>> "rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:920ud39cch27b0bjm0a8m5p6mun3qrofu9@4ax.com...
>>
>>>actually it's a football cheer
>>>
>>>GO NARDS GO NARDS GO NARDS GO
>>>
>>
>>
>> I think that should read Gonads
>
>Didn't Arnold Schwarzenneger play him in a movie?
>
>;-p
>
>Jeffis there a price or is it still beta ? have you heard it ?don't give them rough mixes and tell them Mutt Lange spends two weeks on each
song and ask them if they would like to have half a billion dollars too?The compressor / limiter sounds immediately better than the cubase one to
me and is very smooth. There is noise while adjusting settings like most
plugs but the sounds is nice and smooth.show them this post.
On 7 Sep 2007 15:04:18 +1000, "Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net>
wrote:
>
>When you give a client a bunch of rough mixes and he/she thinks they sound
>so good that they must be almost done (like, maybe only another 15 or 20
>minutes of work, 30 tops) but you haven't done ANY of the things that you
>know need to be done to a good sounding finished mix, like using some nice
>sounding plugins, setting up some automation to keep voices and solos on
>top of the music and maybe even (God forbid!!!) tuning a note here and there.
> And then they find out that the GOOD mixes take an hour or two or even three,
> never mind the big production numbers that eat up 8 or 9 hours of editing
>and mixing time and STILL need some tweaking to be "just right".
>
>Most of my clients sweat at least a little blood for every dollar they pay
>me. I have to try to strike a ballance between what I want and what they
>need. I had one project where I just gave up on doing all my fancy mix tricks.
> I slapped my UAD-1 plugs and my Waves plugs on a few tunes and he came back
>saying "I like the rough mixes better".
>
>So... What do you do?
>
>GanttFor free all I can say is wow. I just went through most of the plugs and
they are really very nice. Spacer is a super smooth reverb and the exciter
is great on vocals.
I'm not impressed with the limiter though. And other effects like Monster
are hard to figure out without a manual. It helps to know what they are
emulating and then go lookup the manual online if possible.good one! seriously
rod
rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>show them this post.
>
>
>
>On 7 Sep 2007 15:04:18 +1000, "Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>When you give a client a bunch of rough mixes and he/she thinks they sound
>>so good that they must be almost done (like, maybe only another 15 or 20
>>minutes of work, 30 tops) but you haven't done ANY of the things that you
>>know need to be done to a good sounding finished mix, like using some nice
>>sounding plugins, setting up some automation to keep voices and solos on
>>top of the music and maybe even (God forbid!!!) tuning a note here and
there.
>> And then they find out that the GOOD mixes take an hour or two or even
three,
>> never mind the big production numbers that eat up 8 or 9 hours of editing
>>and mixing time and STILL need some tweaking to be "just right".
>>
>>Most of my clients sweat at least a little blood for every dollar they
pay
>>me. I have to try to strike a ballance between what I
|
|
|
|
| Re: Paris Perspective: [message #87917 is a reply to message #87916] |
Tue, 10 July 2007 22:32 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
want and what they
>>need. I had one project where I just gave up on doing all my fancy mix
tricks.
>> I slapped my UAD-1 plugs and my Waves plugs on a few tunes and he came
back
>>saying "I like the rough mixes better".
>>
>>So... What do you do?
>>
>>Gantt
>What's the mic on the fiddle?
"Rob Arsenault" <mani2 at nbnet dot nb.ca> wrote:
>Hi guys and gals, here is cut off my latest project, bluegrass in French.
>Artist by the name of Paul Hebert out of eastern Canada.
>
>Tracked and Mixed entirely in Paris.
>
>http://www.studiomanitou.com/mp3demo/BonjourBonheur.mp3
>
>Rob
>
>Love the mix, love the song, love the playing. The last mandolin solo was
especially hot.
David LI meant what I want the mixes to sound like!
Gantt
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>What do you mean by what you want? Do you mean what you want
>in terms of payment for the work, or what you want in terms of
>what you think the finished product could or should sound like?
>
>NeilOh, and was there any mix compresssion?
"Cujo" <chris@applemanstudio.com> wrote:
>
>
>What's the mic on the fiddle?
>
>"Rob Arsenault" <mani2 at nbnet dot nb.ca> wrote:
>>Hi guys and gals, here is cut off my latest project, bluegrass in French.
>>Artist by the name of Paul Hebert out of eastern Canada.
>>
>>Tracked and Mixed entirely in Paris.
>>
>>http://www.studiomanitou.com/mp3demo/BonjourBonheur.mp3
>>
>>Rob
>>
>>
>Thanks Sarah, actually, it is my understanding that for it to be Cajun, it
would need a squeaky old squeeze-box in there...!!!
"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote in message news:46e10803$1@linux...
> Wow, sounds great. And those guys are hot. But if it's bluegrass in
> French doesn't that make it Cajun? :)
>
> S
>
>
> "Rob Arsenault" <mani2 at nbnet dot nb.ca> wrote in message
> news:46e0b6bd@linux...
>> Hi guys and gals, here is cut off my latest project, bluegrass in French.
>> Artist by the name of Paul Hebert out of eastern Canada.
>>
>> Tracked and Mixed entirely in Paris.
>>
>> http://www.studiomanitou.com/mp3demo/BonjourBonheur.mp3
>>
>> Rob
>>
>
>AT 4047 FET
> What's the mic on the fiddle?Thanks Dave, guy by the name of Ray Legere on mando, he's mind boggling on
mando and fiddle as well. One of his many gigs is with "Bowfire", an
international touring act featuring different styles of fiddle/violin
playing from all over the world.
"David L" <david@revealaudio.com> wrote in message news:46e152f2$1@linux...
> Love the mix, love the song, love the playing. The last mandolin solo was
> especially hot.
>
> David LYes, at the mastering stage, not out of Paris.
"cujo" <chris@applemanstudio.com> wrote in message news:46e1575a$1@linux...
>
>
> Oh, and was there any mix compresssion?
>
> "Cujo" <chris@applemanstudio.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>What's the mic on the fiddle?
>>
>>"Rob Arsenault" <mani2 at nbnet dot nb.ca> wrote:
>>>Hi guys and gals, here is cut off my latest project, bluegrass in French.
>>>Artist by the name of Paul Hebert out of eastern Canada.
>>>
>>>Tracked and Mixed entirely in Paris.
>>>
>>>http://www.studiomanitou.com/mp3demo/BonjourBonheur.mp3
>>>
>>>Rob
>>>
>>>
>>
>Speaking of Mutt Lange, does anyone know if there is anything written about
his style of working, techniques, biography, Shania's br..... oops, got side
tracked there......!!!
Rob
"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:46e11f72$1@linux...
>
> don't give them rough mixes and tell them Mutt Lange spends two weeks on
> each
> song and ask them if they would like to have half a billion dollars too?Take the song that would be the easiest to get sounding the way you think
it should. Mix it (for free) and give them a copy. Tell them that while of
course they're welcome to use the rough mixes--it's their music and money
after all--you think a more polished version sounds better.
TCB
"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>When you give a client a bunch of rough mixes and he/she thinks they sound
>so good that they must be almost done (like, maybe only another 15 or 20
>minutes of work, 30 tops) but you haven't done ANY of the things that you
>know need to be done to a good sounding finished mix, like using some nice
>sounding plugins, setting up some automation to keep voices and solos on
>top of the music and maybe even (God forbid!!!) tuning a note here and there.
> And then they find out that the GOOD mixes take an hour or two or even
three,
> never mind the big production numbers that eat up 8 or 9 hours of editing
>and mixing time and STILL need some tweaking to be "just right".
>
>Most of my clients sweat at least a little blood for every dollar they pay
>me. I have to try to strike a ballance between what I want and what they
>need. I had one project where I just gave up on doing all my fancy mix tricks.
> I slapped my UAD-1 plugs and my Waves plugs on a few tunes and he came
back
>saying "I like the rough mixes better".
>
>So... What do you do?
>
>Gantt"Rob Arsenault" <mani1147athotmaildotcom> wrote in message
news:46e15c68@linux...
> Speaking of Mutt Lange, does anyone know if there is anything written
> about his style of working, techniques, biography, Shania's br..... oops,
> got side tracked there......!!!
>
> Rob
>
>
From what I hear they're impressiveSmokin' hot mix, Rob. Great recording, performances, and final
production. Only negative - a tad light on the cowbell. See if you can
bring that up in the mix, please.
- Paul Artola
Ellicott City, Maryland
On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 23:17:53 -0300, "Rob Arsenault" <mani2 at nbnet dot
nb.ca> wrote:
>Hi guys and gals, here is cut off my latest project, bluegrass in French.
>Artist by the name of Paul Hebert out of eastern Canada.
>
>Tracked and Mixed entirely in Paris.
>
>http://www.studiomanitou.com/mp3demo/BonjourBonheur.mp3
>
>Rob
>Yes.. Saw this way back on gearslutz. Looks great. letr's hope that it sounds
as good. Also, it seems that this company (Overloud) has some very exciting
loss-less compression technology that will be bringing to other products
like softsynths and samplers.
All in all, i think the 3 year lull in DAW technology has finally come to
and end. Being that some of these companies big and small have figured out
what to do next. Their biggest hurdle will be adapting to 64 bit technology.
"zmora" <docent191@wp.pl> wrote:
>
>http://www.overloud.com/en/products/Okay fam, I just read a very interesting article in July's 07 SOS (Sound On
Sound -What The Devlopers Think) about the state of MS Vista AND is it time
for (Them DAW manufactuers) to go 64 bit.
Well, the article featured most of the heavey hitters in the industry (RME,
M-Audio, Native Instruments, Steingberg, Cakewalk, Lynx .
As far as 64 bit in the DAW most , except Cakewalk, feels that it's not needed.
But, you get the feeling that they say this because of the work involved.
Secondly, They're not impreesed(except Cakewalk) with Microsoft's new built-in
audio hooks (WaveRT).. RME stated thay would stay with ASIO, and Not Adopt
the Vista standard..
OK. Rant:
When Apple completly re-coded their OS witha NEW Audio engine standard AUDIO-Units.
At that time, ASIO, WMD & MAS where the NAtive standards, but Apple went
their own way. So what did the Developers do...They started coding their
apps, plugins, audio interfaces with Auduo-Unit drivers.
Now, that Microsoft is proposing the same thing, these very same companies
are balking. Why? Even with Lower latency and less pull on the CPU,like Apple's
Audio Unit design, their balking.
Next point:
To all of those who state the only useful purpose for 64 bit is to break
the 4 gig memory limitation (for Samplers) in Bull!
The problem is that the DAWS are all using 32 bit coding. #2 bit apps on
a 64 bit os and processor will only get you marginal gains...But, A True
64 DAW/App using a 64 bit CPU,64 bit plugins
we we see astouding gains in performance.
I'll stop now. But, we need to let the manufacturers know (what they already
know) and that is the Windows train is moving and even if Vista is not the
OS, the Next version will be the right one and it will be 64 bit.. Companies
like RME & Steinbergs will get left behind if they don't start moving in
that 64 bit direction).
To may of us have Pre-Invested in 64 bit CPUs with the promise of 64 bit
processing. Apple will be there soon with OS-x 64 with a newly re-wriiten
version of Logic (64 bit). Digi and Motu will be on the 64 bit train as well..Chooo
chooooc choo...This is a tricky on Gantt. I've run into this before. Now, I just make
project arrangements beforehand so that it doesn't happen. Letting the
roughs go is cheaper for the client, but you will potentially look better
(advertise your talents/studio) - and them too!!!! - if you can "mix" them
up. I would just talk to them and explain it best you can - but if they
can't hear the difference OR think it's worth it, then it's not gonna be in
your interest to hassle them about it, and you should just let it go. Maybe
ask them to give you proper credit that perhaps mentions that it wasn't
mixed.
good luck,
-Carl
"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:46e0dbd2$1@linux...
>
> When you give a client a bunch of rough mixes and he/she thinks they sound
> so good that they must be almost done (like, maybe only another 15 or 20
> minutes of work, 30 tops) but you haven't done ANY of the things that you
> know need to be done to a good sounding finished mix, like using some nice
> sounding plugins, setting up some automation to keep voices and solos on
> top of the music and maybe even (God forbid!!!) tuning a note here and
there.
> And then they find out that the GOOD mixes take an hour or two or even
three,
> never mind the big production numbers that eat up 8 or 9 hours of editing
> and mixing time and STILL need some tweaking to be "just right".
>
> Most of my clients sweat at least a little blood for every dollar they pay
> me. I have to try to strike a ballance between what I want and what they
> need. I had one project where I just gave up on doing all my fancy mix
tricks.
> I slapped my UAD-1 plugs and my Waves plugs on a few tunes and he came
back
> saying "I like the rough mixes better".
>
> So... What do you do?
>
> GanttTwo things. First, when Apple built (or stole and modified) OS X they made
a quantum leap in the quality of their OS. 9.x was years behind, say, NT
4.0. Apple also basically forced everyone to go with the OS X, and there
was a lot of bitching in the hardware and software communities about updating
apps and drivers.
Second, where is the evidence that a 64 bit (integer) OS vastly improves
audio performance? I haven't seen it, and since FP processing has been capable
of using 64 (or 128) bit words for years now I'd be interested to see where
the quantum leap in performance comes from.
TCB
"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Okay fam, I just read a very interesting article in July's 07 SOS (Sound
On
>Sound -What The Devlopers Think) about the state of MS Vista AND is it time
>for (Them DAW manufactuers) to go 64 bit.
>
>Well, the article featured most of the heavey hitters in the industry (RME,
>M-Audio, Native Instruments, Steingberg, Cakewalk, Lynx .
>
>As far as 64 bit in the DAW most , except Cakewalk, feels that it's not
needed.
>But, you get the feeling that they say this because of the work involved.
> Secondly, They're not impreesed(except Cakewalk) with Microsoft's new built-in
>audio hooks (WaveRT).. RME stated thay would stay with ASIO, and Not Adopt
>the Vista standard..
>
>OK. Rant:
>When Apple completly re-coded their OS witha NEW Audio engine standard AUDIO-Units.
>At that time, ASIO, WMD & MAS where the NAtive standards, but Apple went
>their own way. So what did the Developers do...They started coding their
>apps, plugins, audio interfaces with Auduo-Unit drivers.
>
>Now, that Microsoft is proposing the same thing, these very same companies
>are balking. Why? Even with Lower latency and less pull on the CPU,like
Apple's
>Audio Unit design, their balking.
>
>Next point:
>To all of those who state the only useful purpose for 64 bit is to break
>the 4 gig memory limitation (for Samplers) in Bull!
>
>The problem is that the DAWS are all using 32 bit coding. #2 bit apps on
>a 64 bit os and processor will only get you marginal gains...But, A True
>64 DAW/App using a 64 bit CPU,64 bit plugins
>we we see astouding gains in performance.
>
>I'll stop now. But, we need to let the manufacturers know (what they already
>know) and that is the Windows train is moving and even if Vista is not the
>OS, the Next version will be the right one and it will be 64 bit.. Companies
>like RME & Steinbergs will get left behind if they don't start moving in
>that 64 bit direction).
>
>To may of us have Pre-Invested in 64 bit CPUs with the promise of 64 bit
>processing. Apple will be there soon with OS-x 64 with a newly re-wriiten
>version of Logic (64 bit). Digi and Motu will be on the 64 bit train as
well..Chooo
>chooooc choo...
>
>OK, I'll try to be clear:
With 2 EDS cards, you do a criss-cross with the provided "x"
cables. The instructions are pretty vague when it comes to
more than two cards.
With three cards, you chain the output from one card to the
input of the next card in line. Got it.
Now, do you run a cable from the output of the last card in your chain back
to the input of your first, master EDS card???
This is where the instructions are vague.
Thanks in advance,
ChrisI read the article a while back, and I think there are multiple sides to
this:
1 - Vista isn't great for low latency audio. WaveRT is still, afaik, just a
marketing feature, not proven in reality for pro audio.
2 - Cakewalk has staked their marketing on 64-bit in order to attempt to
separate themselves from the market. Reality is (or so it seems from tests
I've seen), there is little advantage for the audio engine, and for the OS,
memory access is the main advantage. 64-bit apps in a 64-bit OS can gain
some performance gains, but so far that appears to be minimal).
3 - Apple hasn't really worked for, or to the advantage of DAW/audio
developers, except their own (Final Cut Pro and iTunes/QT/iLife being their
main interests here, with Logic running a distant 5th, or 10th). Core audio
is likely a 30% technical decision (easier to implement than someone else's
protocol), and 70% product control - what you develop yourself, you can
market, control and use to differentiate your product. ASIO is perfectly
fast, and stable on WinXP, but it's Steinberg's protocol, not Apple's. For
example, direct monitoring still isn't supported by most hardware or
software for OSX, and was questionable for core audio (whether this has been
slow to develop, or slow to release the SDK for, I don't know) - even Logic
doesn't have it. Apple just isn't interested in supporting 3rd party audio
applications or protocols for the Mac purely because they have a direct
vested interest in their own, and in selling more Macs.
Developers adopted AU and Core Audio because they had to in order to survive
- most of them already had Mac products they would simply lose if they
didn't. Notice that some developers that didn't have Mac support, never
moved to AU (Voxengo for one; Algorithmix, etc). It was a forced decision
since VST, ASIO, etc had been dropped, just as Logic 5/PC was - if it
doesn't make money for Apple, it is unceremoniously canned. With Vista,
VST, ASIO, WDM all still work, so developers aren't buying Microsoft's pitch
to move to their own internal driver/protocol. I believe at least one of
the developers in that article expressed reservations over trusting their
product to a protocol (WaveRT) that was held by an OS developer that had no
direct interest in professional audio (sound familiar now? They've learned
from the Apple experience, and past Microsoft experience - DirectX for one).
I think the moral of the story is that pro audio is best handled by
developers in that market, not companies more interested in selling
operating systems, home computers, and/or iToys.
Regards,
Dedric
On 9/7/07 9:16 AM, in article 46e16b5e$1@linux, "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Okay fam, I just read a very interesting article in July's 07 SOS (Sound On
> Sound -What The Devlopers Think) about the state of MS Vista AND is it time
> for (Them DAW manufactuers) to go 64 bit.
>
> Well, the article featured most of the heavey hitters in the industry (RME,
> M-Audio, Native Instruments, Steingberg, Cakewalk, Lynx .
>
> As far as 64 bit in the DAW most , except Cakewalk, feels that it's not
> needed.
> But, you get the feeling that they say this because of the work involved.
> Secondly, They're not impreesed(except Cakewalk) with Microsoft's new built-in
> audio hooks (WaveRT).. RME stated thay would stay with ASIO, and Not Adopt
> the Vista standard..
>
> OK. Rant:
> When Apple completly re-coded their OS witha NEW Audio engine standard
> AUDIO-Units.
> At that time, ASIO, WMD & MAS where the NAtive standards, but Apple went
> their own way. So what did the Developers do...They started coding their
> apps, plugins, audio interfaces with Auduo-Unit drivers.
>
> Now, that Microsoft is proposing the same thing, these very same companies
> are balking. Why? Even with Lower latency and less pull on the CPU,like
> Apple's
> Audio Unit design, their balking.
>
> Next point:
> To all of those who state the only useful purpose for 64 bit is to break
> the 4 gig memory limitation (for Samplers) in Bull!
>
> The problem is that the DAWS are all using 32 bit coding. #2 bit apps on
> a 64 bit os and processor will only get you marginal gains...But, A True
> 64 DAW/App using a 64 bit CPU,64 bit plugins
> we we see astouding gains in performance.
>
> I'll stop now. But, we need to let the manufacturers know (what they already
> know) and that is the Windows train is moving and even if Vista is not the
> OS, the Next version will be the right one and it will be 64 bit.. Companies
> like RME & Steinbergs will get left behind if they don't start moving in
> that 64 bit direction).
>
> To may of us have Pre-Invested in 64 bit CPUs with the promise of 64 bit
> processing. Apple will be there soon with OS-x 64 with a newly re-wriiten
> version of Logic (64 bit). Digi and Motu will be on the 64 bit train as
> well..Chooo
> chooooc choo...
>
>I dont't hear it, it is beta amd no demo yet.
I heard that this's a man former from Guitar Suite and now IK Amplitube 2
plugins, name Serafini or something similar.
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>Yes.. Saw this way back on gearslutz. Looks great. letr's hope that it sounds
>as good. Also, it seems that this company (Overloud) has some very exciting
>loss-less compression technology that will be bringing to other products
>like softsynths and samplers.
>
>All in all, i think the 3 year lull in DAW technology has finally come to
>and end. Being that some of these companies big and small have figured out
>what to do next. Their biggest hurdle will be adapting to 64 bit technology.
>
>
>"zmora" <docent191@wp.pl> wrote:
>>
>>http://www.overloud.com/en/products/
>"Rob Arsenault" <mani1147athotmaildotcom> wrote:
>Speaking of Mutt Lange, does anyone know if there is anything written about
>his style of working, techniques, biography, Shania's br..... oops, got
side
>tracked there......!!!
Gearslutz has a pretty decent thread with Mike Shipley wherein
a number of people ask him about this, he doens't really give
anything away, but he does mention a few specific items of
interest.
NeilThis is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0080_01C7F149.DD373D40
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Chris,
Yes you do crises cross from the outer cards like you described.
Tom
"Chris Lang" <yo@yo.yo> wrote in message news:46e1733d$1@linux...
OK, I'll try to be clear:
With 2 EDS cards, you do a criss-cross with the provided "x"
cables. The instructions are pretty vague when it comes to=20
more than two cards.
With three cards, you chain the output from one card to the=20
input of the next card in line. Got it.
Now, do you run a cable from the output of the last card in your chain =
back
to the input of your first, master EDS card???
This is where the instructions are vague.
Thanks in advance,
Chris
I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
------=_NextPart_000_0080_01C7F149.DD373D40
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Chris,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yes you do crises cross from the outer =
cards like=20
you described.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Chris Lang" <<A href=3D"mailto:yo@yo.yo">yo@yo.yo</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:46e1733d$1@linux">news:46e1733d$1@linux</A>...</DIV><BR>OK, =
I'll=20
try to be clear:<BR><BR>With 2 EDS cards, you do a criss-cross with =
the=20
provided "x"<BR>cables. The instructions are pretty vague when =
it comes=20
to <BR>more than two cards.<BR><BR>With three cards, you chain the =
output from=20
one card to the <BR>input of the next card in line. Got =
it.<BR><BR>Now,=20
do you run a cable from the output of the last card in your chain =
back<BR>to=20
the input of your first, master EDS card???<BR>This is where the =
instructions=20
are vague.<BR><BR>Thanks in advance,<BR><BR>Chris<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR><BR>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, =
and=20
you?<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html">http://www.polesoft.com/refer=
..html</A> </FONT></DIV></BODY ></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0080_01C7F149.DD373D40--Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>I read the article a while back, and I think there are multiple sides to
>this:
>
>1 - Vista isn't great for low latency audio. WaveRT is still, afaik, just
a
>marketing feature, not proven in reality for pro audio.
>
>2 - Cakewalk has staked their marketing on 64-bit in order to attempt to
>separate themselves from the market. Reality is (or so it seems from tests
>I've seen), there is little advantage for the audio engine, and for the
OS,
>memory access is the main advantage. 64-bit apps in a 64-bit OS can gain
>some performance gains, but so far that appears to be minimal).
>
>3 - Apple hasn't really worked for, or to the advantage of DAW/audio
>developers, except their own (Final Cut Pro and iTunes/QT/iLife being their
>main interests here, with Logic running a distant 5th, or 10th). Core audio
>is likely a 30% technical decision (easier to implement than someone else's
>protocol), and 70% product control - what you develop yourself, you can
>market, control and use to differentiate your product. ASIO is perfectly
>fast, and stable on WinXP, but it's Steinberg's protocol, not Apple's.
For
>example, direct monitoring still isn't supported by most hardware or
>software for OSX, and was questionable for core audio (whether this has
been
>slow to develop, or slow to release the SDK for, I don't know) - even Logic
>doesn't have it. Apple just isn't interested in supporting 3rd party audio
>applications or protocols for the Mac purely because they have a direct
>vested interest in their own, and in selling more Macs.
>
>Developers adopted AU and Core Audio because they had to in order to survive
>- most of them already had Mac products they would simply lose if they
>didn't. Notice that some developers that didn't have Mac support, never
>moved to AU (Voxengo for one; Algorithmix, etc). It was a forced decision
>since VST, ASIO, etc had been dropped, just as Logic 5/PC was - if it
>doesn't make money for Apple, it is unceremoniously canned. With Vista,
>VST, ASIO, WDM all still work, so developers aren't buying Microsoft's pitch
>to move to their own internal driver/protocol. I believe at least one of
>the developers in that article expressed reservations over trusting their
>product to a protocol (WaveRT) that was held by an OS developer that had
no
>direct interest in professional audio (sound familiar now? They've learned
>from the Apple experience, and past Microsoft experience - DirectX for one).
>
>I think the moral of the story is that pro audio is best handled by
>developers in that market, not companies more interested in selling
>operating systems, home computers, and/or iToys.
>
>Regards,
>Dedric
Sometimes You guys kill me with your anti Mac/Apple opinions. When MS goes
proprietary you guys call it a standard, and you accept it. If Apple does
it, it's a problem. AU is a ground up rewrite of their audio software system.
They did it to improve audio on Mac OS. I don't like that
|
|
|
|
| Re: Paris Perspective: [message #87923 is a reply to message #87916] |
Tue, 10 July 2007 22:52 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
s...But, A True
>> 64 DAW/App using a 64 bit CPU,64 bit plugins
>> we we see astouding gains in performance.
>>
>> I'll stop now. But, we need to let the manufacturers know (what they already
>> know) and that is the Windows train is moving and even if Vista is not the
>> OS, the Next version will be the right one and it will be 64 bit.. Companies
>> like RME & Steinbergs will get left behind if they don't start moving in
>> that 64 bit direction).
>>
>> To may of us have Pre-Invested in 64 bit CPUs with the promise of 64 bit
>> processing. Apple will be there soon with OS-x 64 with a newly re-wriiten
>> version of Logic (64 bit). Digi and Motu will be on the 64 bit train as
>> well..Chooo
>> chooooc choo...
>>
>>
> http://www.3daudioinc.com/3db/attachment.php?attachmentid=70 1&d=1189183327nice...really nice.
On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 23:17:53 -0300, "Rob Arsenault" <mani2 at nbnet dot
nb.ca> wrote:
>Hi guys and gals, here is cut off my latest project, bluegrass in French.
>Artist by the name of Paul Hebert out of eastern Canada.
>
>Tracked and Mixed entirely in Paris.
>
>http://www.studiomanitou.com/mp3demo/BonjourBonheur.mp3
>
>Rob
>HI Lamont,
LaMont wrote:
> Okay fam, I just read a very interesting article in July's 07 SOS (Sound On
> Sound -What The Devlopers Think) about the state of MS Vista AND is it time
> for (Them DAW manufactuers) to go 64 bit.
>
> Well, the article featured most of the heavey hitters in the industry (RME,
> M-Audio, Native Instruments, Steingberg, Cakewalk, Lynx .
>
> As far as 64 bit in the DAW most , except Cakewalk, feels that it's not needed.
> But, you get the feeling that they say this because of the work involved.
> Secondly, They're not impreesed(except Cakewalk) with Microsoft's new built-in
> audio hooks (WaveRT).. RME stated thay would stay with ASIO, and Not Adopt
> the Vista standard..
>
Microsoft does not have a standard for audio in Vista. WaveRT has not
been fully released or documented in its SDK. The same as WDM never was
even to this day. For Microsoft audio only a concern for Home theater
and gaming applications. If it works for those markets then all is well.
Any mention to do with music production or video production is at best a
novelty for Microsoft. The Pro Audio and Pro Video market is barely able
to crack the double digit percentage of sale for MS. MS make more money
in a day than the entire Computer based audio market does in a year.
For Apple it is more like 50 percent of their market. So logically Apple
has a greater interest in creating a driver model more optimized for
these type of applications. Apple developed Core Audio with the some of
Steinberg's help. They did not steal it wholesale from Steinberg.
Core audio was in a very similar state in it's first versions. it took
a bunch of updates that included updates that made hardware and
software developers have to do a bunch a recoding. I many cases Apple
did such a poor job documenting the changes they manufacturers had to
find out the hard way. The current version of Core Audio is quite robust
but still doesn't have all the common features of ASIO. But is also has
done some things like driver aggregation(spelling?) that would have been
great to see in ASIO.
> OK. Rant:
> When Apple completly re-coded their OS witha NEW Audio engine standard AUDIO-Units.
> At that time, ASIO, WMD & MAS where the NAtive standards, but Apple went
> their own way. So what did the Developers do...They started coding their
> apps, plugins, audio interfaces with Auduo-Unit drivers.
Audio Units is a plug in spec not a driver. It took most 3rd party plug
in developers months or even years to come out with AU versions and even
longer to put out "Intel Binary" versions of everything. Some still
haven't...
>
> Now, that Microsoft is proposing the same thing, these very same companies
> are balking. Why? Even with Lower latency and less pull on the CPU,like Apple's
> Audio Unit design, their balking.
There no factual information on that being the case other than
Microsoft's marketing jargon.
I have not seen any WaveRTs drivers so far (they are all alpha and beta
versions at this point) that have performed anywhere near as good than
ASIO under XP. Core Audio preforms about as well as good WDM drivers did
in Sonar which is very close to ASIO in latency but tends to have a
higher CPU load at the lower latencies. Both WDM and Wave RT drivers are
considerably more complicated to develop than both ASIO and Core Audio.
>
> Next point:
> To all of those who state the only useful purpose for 64 bit is to break
> the 4 gig memory limitation (for Samplers) in Bull!
>
> The problem is that the DAWS are all using 32 bit coding. #2 bit apps on
> a 64 bit os and processor will only get you marginal gains...But, A True
> 64 DAW/App using a 64 bit CPU,64 bit plugins
> we we see astouding gains in performance.
Where is there evidence of that? There are absolutely no 64 bit DAW
applications on the market to test that theory.
>
> I'll stop now. But, we need to let the manufacturers know (what they already
> know) and that is the Windows train is moving and even if Vista is not the
> OS, the Next version will be the right one and it will be 64 bit.. Companies
> like RME & Steinbergs will get left behind if they don't start moving in
> that 64 bit direction).
Yet RME has the drivers that operate better than any one else's under
Vista 64 using WDM or ASIO. Matthias is note a fan boy for either Apple
or MS and tells it as he sees it. It doesn't always sound a cheerful and
exciting as Cakewalk's marketing lies.
>
> To may of us have Pre-Invested in 64 bit CPUs with the promise of 64 bit
> processing. Apple will be there soon with OS-x 64 with a newly re-wriiten
> version of Logic (64 bit). Digi and Motu will be on the 64 bit train as well..Chooo
> chooooc choo...
Sounds like you should get a MAC. :)
>
>
--
Chris Ludwig
ADK Pro Audio
(859) 635-5762
www.adkproaudio.com
chrisl@adkproaudio.comDedric Terry wrote:
> I read the article a while back, and I think there are multiple sides to
> this:
>
> 1 - Vista isn't great for low latency audio. WaveRT is still, afaik, just a
> marketing feature, not proven in reality for pro audio.
Yep
>
> 2 - Cakewalk has staked their marketing on 64-bit in order to attempt to
> separate themselves from the market. Reality is (or so it seems from tests
> I've seen), there is little advantage for the audio engine, and for the OS,
> memory access is the main advantage. 64-bit apps in a 64-bit OS can gain
> some performance gains, but so far that appears to be minimal).
Sonar is not a 64 bit app despite what Cakewalk claims.
Perhaps when all the of the 3rd party plug in developers rewrite all
their software in a fully 64 bit code and Cakewalk can finally remove
the "bit Bridge" then you might see some performance gains.
>
> 3 - Apple hasn't really worked for, or to the advantage of DAW/audio
> developers, except their own (Final Cut Pro and iTunes/QT/iLife being their
> main interests here, with Logic running a distant 5th, or 10th). Core audio
> is likely a 30% technical decision (easier to implement than someone else's
> protocol), and 70% product control - what you develop yourself, you can
> market, control and use to differentiate your product. ASIO is perfectly
> fast, and stable on WinXP, but it's Steinberg's protocol, not Apple's. For
> example, direct monitoring still isn't supported by most hardware or
> software for OSX, and was questionable for core audio (whether this has been
> slow to develop, or slow to release the SDK for, I don't know) - even Logic
> doesn't have it. Apple just isn't interested in supporting 3rd party audio
> applications or protocols for the Mac purely because they have a direct
> vested interest in their own, and in selling more Macs.
>
> Developers adopted AU and Core Audio because they had to in order to survive
> - most of them already had Mac products they would simply lose if they
> didn't. Notice that some developers that didn't have Mac support, never
> moved to AU (Voxengo for one; Algorithmix, etc). It was a forced decision
> since VST, ASIO, etc had been dropped, just as Logic 5/PC was - if it
> doesn't make money for Apple, it is unceremoniously canned. With Vista,
> VST, ASIO, WDM all still work, so developers aren't buying Microsoft's pitch
> to move to their own internal driver/protocol. I believe at least one of
> the developers in that article expressed reservations over trusting their
> product to a protocol (WaveRT) that was held by an OS developer that had no
> direct interest in professional audio (sound familiar now? They've learned
> from the Apple experience, and past Microsoft experience - DirectX for one).
Totally dead on.
>
> I think the moral of the story is that pro audio is best handled by
> developers in that market, not companies more interested in selling
> operating systems, home computers, and/or iToys.
>
Sad but true.
--
Chris Ludwig
ADK Pro Audio
(859) 635-5762
www.adkproaudio.com
chrisl@adkproaudio.comJamie K wrote:
> I would say they've learned from their VST experience as Apple did.
> Apple moved a way from a Steinberg controlled standard to their own
> integrated standard. Review the history there, more than a few
> developers were a bit impatient with Steinberg.
An the best part is if Steinberg didn't develop ASIO and VST none of
this discussion would be happening.
>
>
>> I think the moral of the story is that pro audio is best handled by
>> developers in that market, not companies more interested in selling
>> operating systems, home computers, and/or iToys.
>
> The opposite moral is also possible to glean from all of this. Let the
> OS handle it.
I'd have to agree in Apples case sense the Pro Audio/Pro Video market is
a large chunk of their user base so they must cater to them. For MS that
market has no impact at all on their income so why spend much time on
it. Wave RT is a idea thrown in at the last minute into Vista just so
they can say hey look we can do it too.
>
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
>
>>
--
Chris Ludwig
ADK Pro Audio
(859) 635-5762
www.adkproaudio.com
chrisl@adkproaudio.comHi James,
LOl so true.
Ah crap I just agreed with a Apple guy..... :(
James McCloskey wrote:
> LaMont, I think your getting a bit of a story. The developers are all working
> on it, they have to. The only way they can keep selling you software is
> whiz bang wow factor, and trust me, they will claim 64bit is the shit. They
> just want you to think their not interested, so you keep buying their current
> offerings. Just wait, they will have huge ad campaigns when they are ready
> to release native 64bit software. They will point out, that with the new
> high capacity hard drives, 64bit files are not a problem anymore either.
> They'll be calling it the new pro standard. It's all coming, they got to
> sell you the next big thing. When the time is right, they will make you
> feel that if you don't jump on the 64bit band wagon you will totally be left
> behind.
>
--
Chris Ludwig
ADK Pro Audio
(859) 635-5762
www.adkproaudio.com
chrisl@adkproaudio.comJames and Jamie,
Well I'll reply to you and Jamie together to conserve electrons... ;-)
I think you both missed my point, and assumed this was a slight against
Apple. It wasn't.
The thread was actually about Vista and the article in which few developers
showed any enthusiasm for it, and in several cases almost outright
rejection. I don't blame them. OS developers really don't, and sadly,
can't put the interests of professional audio users at the forefront. Their
first customers are consumers.
Core audio is cool (great compared to other OS-embedded audio protocols,
unless we bring BeOS back) and Apple seems to have done a respectable job by
including such core media hooks in the OS (core animation too). However,
the point is how much a full time professional can or should really trust
the performance of their DAW to a company that makes 10x selling phones, or
operating systems (Apple or MS). Of course that's a paradox - we have no
choice.
Truly Apple has made 100x the effort vs. MS in supporting the pro
audio/video market (well, 100 x 0 would be 0, but you get the point ;-).
The point was that it wasn't developed for Steinberg's best interests, or
Digidesign's, or MOTU's (where is MAS?), but Apple's. Logic was the first
to support OSX because it was an Apple product, Jamie. Does Apple really
release full SDKs to 3rd parties when they start developing their apps for
that new design, or do they wait until they release their app, then forward
the SDKs... ;-)
Just don't assume that because I include Apple in a general discussion that
I'm bashing Macs. Let's also not poo poo Steinberg just because ASIO and
VST weren't developed by Apple. They really did make native DAWs a reality
(moreso than Emagic or MOTU if we look at the life of ASIO and VST vs. MAS
or whatever Emagic's shortlived driver was called - I should remember...).
Steinberg is far from perfect, but that doesn't make Apple the sudden
defender of the pro audio world by default. ;-)
If you are a Mac audio user (or PC user facing the sad reality that is
Vista), fear the iPhone.... fear Garageband.... ;-)
Ideally we really need an OS developed "for" audio/video alone, not home
movies, not downloading mp3s, not posting pics of the family vacation. But
that opens up a whole other can of worms. I guess the worms we have are as
good as it gets, at least until they are all used up trying to catch bigger
fish.
James - I think your link supports my comment that Vista sucks (if Aleksey,
who was never going to port to OSX, now is, things are looking grim for MS
and PC DAW users...). ;-)) (yes, I said it, and yes I believe it - it looks
cool, but ... well I'll save the list for another day). I'm just hoping
Nuendo 4 rocks on the Mac, so at least I have a backup. (I still think it
sucks that with Macs I have to buy average hardware at premium prices when I
could build a much more robust, higher end DAW for 20-30% less).
Oh, btw - in that link Aleksey talks about fixing a /3GB switch bug - that
was yours truly that found that bug (cool of Aleksey to fix it so quickly;
not so cool of MS to make Vista the next stop in the roadmap to 64 bit and
where we would have no more need for it).
Regards,
Dedric
On 9/7/07 10:40 AM, in article 46e17f14$1@linux, "James McCloskey"
<excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>> I read the article a while back, and I think there are multiple sides to
>> this:
>>
>> 1 - Vista isn't great for low latency audio. WaveRT is still, afaik, just
> a
>> marketing feature, not proven in reality for pro audio.
>>
>> 2 - Cakewalk has staked their marketing on 64-bit in order to attempt to
>> separate themselves from the market. Reality is (or so it seems from tests
>> I've seen), there is little advantage for the audio engine, and for the
> OS,
>> memory access is the main advantage. 64-bit apps in a 64-bit OS can gain
>> some performance gains, but so far that appears to be minimal).
>>
>> 3 - Apple hasn't really worked for, or to the advantage of DAW/audio
>> developers, except their own (Final Cut Pro and iTunes/QT/iLife being their
>> main interests here, with Logic running a distant 5th, or 10th). Core audio
>> is likely a 30% technical decision (easier to implement than someone else's
>> protocol), and 70% product control - what you develop yourself, you can
>> market, control and use to differentiate your product. ASIO is perfectly
>> fast, and stable on WinXP, but it's Steinberg's protocol, not Apple's.
> For
>> example, direct monitoring still isn't supported by most hardware or
>> software for OSX, and was questionable for core audio (whether this has
> been
>> slow to develop, or slow to release the SDK for, I don't know) - even Logic
>> doesn't have it. Apple just isn't interested in supporting 3rd party audio
>> applications or protocols for the Mac purely because they have a direct
>> vested interest in their own, and in selling more Macs.
>>
>> Developers adopted AU and Core Audio because they had to in order to survive
>> - most of them already had Mac products they would simply lose if they
>> didn't. Notice that some developers that didn't have Mac support, never
>> moved to AU (Voxengo for one; Algorithmix, etc). It was a forced decision
>> since VST, ASIO, etc had been dropped, just as Logic 5/PC was - if it
>> doesn't make money for Apple, it is unceremoniously canned. With Vista,
>> VST, ASIO, WDM all still work, so developers aren't buying Microsoft's pitch
>> to move to their own internal driver/protocol. I believe at least one of
>> the developers in that article expressed reservations over trusting their
>> product to a protocol (WaveRT) that was held by an OS developer that had
> no
>> direct interest in professional audio (sound familiar now? They've learned
>> from the Apple experience, and past Microsoft experience - DirectX for one).
>>
>> I think the moral of the story is that pro audio is best handled by
>> developers in that market, not companies more interested in selling
>> operating systems, home computers, and/or iToys.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dedric
>
> Sometimes You guys kill me with your anti Mac/Apple opinions. When MS goes
> proprietary you guys call it a standard, and you accept it. If Apple does
> it, it's a problem. AU is a ground up rewrite of their audio software system.
> They did it to improve audio on Mac OS. I don't like that they dropped
> VST support in some of their software, but you still have other choices on
> a Mac to use VSTs, including your favorites from Steinberg. Many new plugin
> development companies showed up because the new AU format created new
> opportunities
> for start ups. It's all good.
>
> By the way, read this: http://www.voxengo.com/press/114/
>
>>
>> On 9/7/07 9:16 AM, in article 46e16b5e$1@linux, "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Okay fam, I just read a very interesting article in July's 07 SOS (Sound
> On
>>> Sound -What The Devlopers Think) about the state of MS Vista AND is it
> time
>>> for (Them DAW manufactuers) to go 64 bit.
>>>
>>> Well, the article featured most of the heavey hitters in the industry
> (RME,
>>> M-Audio, Native Instruments, Steingberg, Cakewalk, Lynx .
>>>
>>> As far as 64 bit in the DAW most , except Cakewalk, feels that it's not
>>> needed.
>>> But, you get the feeling that they say this because of the work involved.
>>> Secondly, They're not impreesed(except Cakewalk) with Microsoft's new
> built-in
>>> audio hooks (WaveRT).. RME stated thay would stay with ASIO, and Not Adopt
>>> the Vista standard..
>>>
>>> OK. Rant:
>>> When Apple completly re-coded their OS witha NEW Audio engine standard
>>> AUDIO-Units.
>>> At that time, ASIO, WMD & MAS where the NAtive standards, but Apple went
>>> their own way. So what did the Developers do...They started coding their
>>> apps, plugins, audio interfaces with Auduo-Unit drivers.
>>>
>>> Now, that Microsoft is proposing the same thing, these very same companies
>>> are balking. Why? Even with Lower latency and less pull on the CPU,like
>>> Apple's
>>> Audio Unit design, their balking.
>>>
>>> Next point:
>>> To all of those who state the only useful purpose for 64 bit is to break
>>> the 4 gig memory limitation (for Samplers) in Bull!
>>>
>>> The problem is that the DAWS are all using 32 bit coding. #2 bit apps
> on
>>> a 64 bit os and processor will only get you marginal gains...But, A True
>>> 64 DAW/App using a 64 bit CPU,64 bit plugins
>>> we we see astouding gains in performance.
>>>
>>> I'll stop now. But, we need to let the manufacturers know (what they already
>>> know) and that is the Windows train is moving and even if Vista is not
> the
>>> OS, the Next version will be the right one and it will be 64 bit.. Companies
>>> like RME & Steinbergs will get left behind if they don't start moving
> in
>>> that 64 bit direction).
>>>
>>> To may of us have Pre-Invested in 64 bit CPUs with the promise of 64 bit
>>> processing. Apple will be there soon with OS-x 64 with a newly re-wriiten
>>> version of Logic (64 bit). Digi and Motu will be on the 64 bit train as
>>> well..Chooo
>>> chooooc choo...
>>>
>>>
>>
>One question, Dedric. Why do we need an OS dedicated to audio/video production?
XP or OS X + software + quality audio interface gives me a 48 track digital
studio in my living room. What's missing from that?
Also, if you want to try it out Ubuntu Studio is actually shipping. I haven't
installed it but we just got 20 dual processor dual core Dell workstations
into my office and I just might try one of them with it for kicks . . .
TCB
Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>James and Jamie,
>
>Well I'll reply to you and Jamie together to conserve electrons... ;-)
>
>I think you both missed my point, and assumed this was a slight against
>Apple. It wasn't.
>
>The thread was actually about Vista and the article in which few developers
>showed any enthusiasm for it, and in several cases almost outright
>rejection. I don't blame them. OS developers really don't, and sadly,
>can't put the interests of professional audio users at the forefront. Their
>first customers are consumers.
>
>Core audio is cool (great compared to other OS-embedded audio protocols,
>unless we bring BeOS back) and Apple seems to have done a respectable job
by
>including such core media hooks in the OS (core animation too). However,
>the point is how much a full time professional can or should really trust
>the performance of their DAW to a company that makes 10x selling phones,
or
>operating systems (Apple or MS). Of course that's a paradox - we have no
>choice.
>
>Truly Apple has made 100x the effort vs. MS in supporting the pro
>audio/video market (well, 100 x 0 would be 0, but you get the point ;-).
>The point was that it wasn't developed for Steinberg's best interests, or
>Digidesign's, or MOTU's (where is MAS?), but Apple's. Logic was the first
>to support OSX because it was an Apple product, Jamie. Does Apple really
>release full SDKs to 3rd parties when they start developing their apps for
>that new design, or do they wait until they release their app, then forward
>the SDKs... ;-)
>
>Just don't assume that because I include Apple in a general discussion that
>I'm bashing Macs. Let's also not poo poo Steinberg just because ASIO and
>VST weren't developed by Apple. They really did make native DAWs a reality
>(moreso than Emagic or MOTU if we look at the life of ASIO and VST vs. MAS
>or whatever Emagic's shortlived driver was called - I should remember...).
>Steinberg is far from perfect, but that doesn't make Apple the sudden
>defender of the pro audio world by default. ;-)
>
>If you are a Mac audio user (or PC user facing the sad reality that is
>Vista), fear the iPhone.... fear Garageband.... ;-)
>
>Ideally we really need an OS developed "for" audio/video alone, not home
>movies, not downloading mp3s, not posting pics of the family vacation.
But
>that opens up a whole other can of worms. I guess the worms we have are
as
>good as it gets, at least until they are all used up trying to catch bigger
>fish.
>
>James - I think your link supports my comment that Vista sucks (if Aleksey,
>who was never going to port to OSX, now is, things are looking grim for
MS
>and PC DAW users...). ;-)) (yes, I said it, and yes I believe it - it looks
>cool, but ... well I'll save the list for another day). I'm just hoping
>Nuendo 4 rocks on the Mac, so at least I have a backup. (I still think
it
>sucks that with Macs I have to buy average hardware at premium prices when
I
>could build a much more robust, higher end DAW for 20-30% less).
>
>Oh, btw - in that link Aleksey talks about fixing a /3GB switch bug - that
>was yours truly that found that bug (cool of Aleksey to fix it so quickly;
>not so cool of MS to make Vista the next stop in the roadmap to 64 bit and
>where we would have no more need for it).
>
>Regards,
>Dedric
>
>On 9/7/07 10:40 AM, in article 46e17f14$1@linux, "James McCloskey"
><excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>> I read the article a while back, and I think there are multiple sides
to
>>> this:
>>>
>>> 1 - Vista isn't great for low latency audio. WaveRT is still, afaik,
just
>> a
>>> marketing feature, not proven in reality for pro audio.
>>>
>>> 2 - Cakewalk has staked their marketing on 64-bit in order to attempt
to
>>> separate themselves from the market. Reality is (or so it seems from
tests
>>> I've seen), there is little advantage for the audio engine, and for the
>> OS,
>>> memory access is the main advantage. 64-bit apps in a 64-bit OS can
gain
>>> some performance gains, but so far that appears to be minimal).
>>>
>>> 3 - Apple hasn't really worked for, or to the advantage of DAW/audio
>>> developers, except their own (Final Cut Pro and iTunes/QT/iLife being
their
>>> main interests here, with Logic running a distant 5th, or 10th). Core
audio
>>> is likely a 30% technical decision (easier to implement than someone
else's
>>> protocol), and 70% product control - what you develop yourself, you can
>>> market, control and use to differentiate your product. ASIO is perfectly
>>> fast, and stable on WinXP, but it's Steinberg's protocol, not Apple's.
>> For
>>> example, direct monitoring still isn't supported by most hardware or
>>> software for OSX, and was questionable for core audio (whether this has
>> been
>>> slow to develop, or slow to release the SDK for, I don't know) - even
Logic
>>> doesn't have it. Apple just isn't interested in supporting 3rd party
audio
>>> applications or protocols for the Mac purely because they have a direct
>>> vested interest in their own, and in selling more Macs.
>>>
>>> Developers adopted AU and Core Audio because they had to in order to
survive
>>> - most of them already had Mac products they would simply lose if they
>>> didn't. Notice that some developers that didn't have Mac support, never
>>> moved to AU (Voxengo for one; Algorithmix, etc). It was a forced decision
>>> since VST, ASIO, etc had been dropped, just as Logic 5/PC was - if it
>>> doesn't make money for Apple, it is unceremoniously canned. With Vista,
>>> VST, ASIO, WDM all still work, so developers aren't buying Microsoft's
pitch
>>> to move to their own internal driver/protocol. I believe at least one
of
>>> the developers in that article expressed reservations over trusting their
>>> product to a protocol (WaveRT) that was held by an OS developer that
had
>> no
>>> direct interest in pro
|
|
|
|
| Re: Paris Perspective: [message #87924 is a reply to message #87917] |
Tue, 10 July 2007 22:54 |
Kim
Messages: 1246
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
fessional audio (sound familiar now? They've learned
>>> from the Apple experience, and past Microsoft experience - DirectX for
one).
>>>
>>> I think the moral of the story is that pro audio is best handled by
>>> developers in that market, not companies more interested in selling
>>> operating systems, home computers, and/or iToys.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dedric
>>
>> Sometimes You guys kill me with your anti Mac/Apple opinions. When MS
goes
>> proprietary you guys call it a standard, and you accept it. If Apple
does
>> it, it's a problem. AU is a ground up rewrite of their audio software
system.
>> They did it to improve audio on Mac OS. I don't like that they dropped
>> VST support in some of their software, but you still have other choices
on
>> a Mac to use VSTs, including your favorites from Steinberg. Many new
plugin
>> development companies showed up because the new AU format created new
>> opportunities
>> for start ups. It's all good.
>>
>> By the way, read this: http://www.voxengo.com/press/114/
>>
>>>
>>> On 9/7/07 9:16 AM, in article 46e16b5e$1@linux, "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Okay fam, I just read a very interesting article in July's 07 SOS (Sound
>> On
>>>> Sound -What The Devlopers Think) about the state of MS Vista AND is
it
>> time
>>>> for (Them DAW manufactuers) to go 64 bit.
>>>>
>>>> Well, the article featured most of the heavey hitters in the industry
>> (RME,
>>>> M-Audio, Native Instruments, Steingberg, Cakewalk, Lynx .
>>>>
>>>> As far as 64 bit in the DAW most , except Cakewalk, feels that it's
not
>>>> needed.
>>>> But, you get the feeling that they say this because of the work involved.
>>>> Secondly, They're not impreesed(except Cakewalk) with Microsoft's new
>> built-in
>>>> audio hooks (WaveRT).. RME stated thay would stay with ASIO, and Not
Adopt
>>>> the Vista standard..
>>>>
>>>> OK. Rant:
>>>> When Apple completly re-coded their OS witha NEW Audio engine standard
>>>> AUDIO-Units.
>>>> At that time, ASIO, WMD & MAS where the NAtive standards, but Apple
went
>>>> their own way. So what did the Developers do...They started coding their
>>>> apps, plugins, audio interfaces with Auduo-Unit drivers.
>>>>
>>>> Now, that Microsoft is proposing the same thing, these very same companies
>>>> are balking. Why? Even with Lower latency and less pull on the CPU,like
>>>> Apple's
>>>> Audio Unit design, their balking.
>>>>
>>>> Next point:
>>>> To all of those who state the only useful purpose for 64 bit is to break
>>>> the 4 gig memory limitation (for Samplers) in Bull!
>>>>
>>>> The problem is that the DAWS are all using 32 bit coding. #2 bit apps
>> on
>>>> a 64 bit os and processor will only get you marginal gains...But, A
True
>>>> 64 DAW/App using a 64 bit CPU,64 bit plugins
>>>> we we see astouding gains in performance.
>>>>
>>>> I'll stop now. But, we need to let the manufacturers know (what they
already
>>>> know) and that is the Windows train is moving and even if Vista is not
>> the
>>>> OS, the Next version will be the right one and it will be 64 bit.. Companies
>>>> like RME & Steinbergs will get left behind if they don't start moving
>> in
>>>> that 64 bit direction).
>>>>
>>>> To may of us have Pre-Invested in 64 bit CPUs with the promise of 64
bit
>>>> processing. Apple will be there soon with OS-x 64 with a newly re-wriiten
>>>> version of Logic (64 bit). Digi and Motu will be on the 64 bit train
as
>>>> well..Chooo
>>>> chooooc choo...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>Hey dedric.. That was called (Emagic Driver EASI) :)
well, I for onehave taken pre-emtive measures to secire a Mac Pro (8 core)
Running Cubase SX. I purchased from a friend for a really good price. I hadhim
show me what Sx was like on OS-X/Intel..Bottem line. It handled 80 pus tracks
imported form a Pro Tools session.
I was sold. He een demostrated SX on his G5-quad. 80 plus tracks, plugins..
No problem..
That's why this I felt that article was so disturbing. I see greater and
greater movement to OS_X and Core audio-audio units. You just get a sense
that Apple has the momentum with the pro audio and video market. And , sadly
my hunches are dead on..
With theis Vista fiasco, I think Ms has slammed it's door on our community.
But, MS has a lot money invested in AVID, so Digidesign must know something
we don't..
The next few years should be interesting..
I will be testing Paris on the Mac Pro (running win XP..via boot camp. Won;t
hurt to see what happens..
Stay tuned.
Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>James and Jamie,
>
>Well I'll reply to you and Jamie together to conserve electrons... ;-)
>
>I think you both missed my point, and assumed this was a slight against
>Apple. It wasn't.
>
>The thread was actually about Vista and the article in which few developers
>showed any enthusiasm for it, and in several cases almost outright
>rejection. I don't blame them. OS developers really don't, and sadly,
>can't put the interests of professional audio users at the forefront. Their
>first customers are consumers.
>
>Core audio is cool (great compared to other OS-embedded audio protocols,
>unless we bring BeOS back) and Apple seems to have done a respectable job
by
>including such core media hooks in the OS (core animation too). However,
>the point is how much a full time professional can or should really trust
>the performance of their DAW to a company that makes 10x selling phones,
or
>operating systems (Apple or MS). Of course that's a paradox - we have no
>choice.
>
>Truly Apple has made 100x the effort vs. MS in supporting the pro
>audio/video market (well, 100 x 0 would be 0, but you get the point ;-).
>The point was that it wasn't developed for Steinberg's best interests, or
>Digidesign's, or MOTU's (where is MAS?), but Apple's. Logic was the first
>to support OSX because it was an Apple product, Jamie. Does Apple really
>release full SDKs to 3rd parties when they start developing their apps for
>that new design, or do they wait until they release their app, then forward
>the SDKs... ;-)
>
>Just don't assume that because I include Apple in a general discussion that
>I'm bashing Macs. Let's also not poo poo Steinberg just because ASIO and
>VST weren't developed by Apple. They really did make native DAWs a reality
>(moreso than Emagic or MOTU if we look at the life of ASIO and VST vs. MAS
>or whatever Emagic's shortlived driver was called - I should remember...).
>Steinberg is far from perfect, but that doesn't make Apple the sudden
>defender of the pro audio world by default. ;-)
>
>If you are a Mac audio user (or PC user facing the sad reality that is
>Vista), fear the iPhone.... fear Garageband.... ;-)
>
>Ideally we really need an OS developed "for" audio/video alone, not home
>movies, not downloading mp3s, not posting pics of the family vacation.
But
>that opens up a whole other can of worms. I guess the worms we have are
as
>good as it gets, at least until they are all used up trying to catch bigger
>fish.
>
>James - I think your link supports my comment that Vista sucks (if Aleksey,
>who was never going to port to OSX, now is, things are looking grim for
MS
>and PC DAW users...). ;-)) (yes, I said it, and yes I believe it - it looks
>cool, but ... well I'll save the list for another day). I'm just hoping
>Nuendo 4 rocks on the Mac, so at least I have a backup. (I still think
it
>sucks that with Macs I have to buy average hardware at premium prices when
I
>could build a much more robust, higher end DAW for 20-30% less).
>
>Oh, btw - in that link Aleksey talks about fixing a /3GB switch bug - that
>was yours truly that found that bug (cool of Aleksey to fix it so quickly;
>not so cool of MS to make Vista the next stop in the roadmap to 64 bit and
>where we would have no more need for it).
>
>Regards,
>Dedric
>
>On 9/7/07 10:40 AM, in article 46e17f14$1@linux, "James McCloskey"
><excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>> I read the article a while back, and I think there are multiple sides
to
>>> this:
>>>
>>> 1 - Vista isn't great for low latency audio. WaveRT is still, afaik,
just
>> a
>>> marketing feature, not proven in reality for pro audio.
>>>
>>> 2 - Cakewalk has staked their marketing on 64-bit in order to attempt
to
>>> separate themselves from the market. Reality is (or so it seems from
tests
>>> I've seen), there is little advantage for the audio engine, and for the
>> OS,
>>> memory access is the main advantage. 64-bit apps in a 64-bit OS can
gain
>>> some performance gains, but so far that appears to be minimal).
>>>
>>> 3 - Apple hasn't really worked for, or to the advantage of DAW/audio
>>> developers, except their own (Final Cut Pro and iTunes/QT/iLife being
their
>>> main interests here, with Logic running a distant 5th, or 10th). Core
audio
>>> is likely a 30% technical decision (easier to implement than someone
else's
>>> protocol), and 70% product control - what you develop yourself, you can
>>> market, control and use to differentiate your product. ASIO is perfectly
>>> fast, and stable on WinXP, but it's Steinberg's protocol, not Apple's.
>> For
>>> example, direct monitoring still isn't supported by most hardware or
>>> software for OSX, and was questionable for core audio (whether this has
>> been
>>> slow to develop, or slow to release the SDK for, I don't know) - even
Logic
>>> doesn't have it. Apple just isn't interested in supporting 3rd party
audio
>>> applications or protocols for the Mac purely because they have a direct
>>> vested interest in their own, and in selling more Macs.
>>>
>>> Developers adopted AU and Core Audio because they had to in order to
survive
>>> - most of them already had Mac products they would simply lose if they
>>> didn't. Notice that some developers that didn't have Mac support, never
>>> moved to AU (Voxengo for one; Algorithmix, etc). It was a forced decision
>>> since VST, ASIO, etc had been dropped, just as Logic 5/PC was - if it
>>> doesn't make money for Apple, it is unceremoniously canned. With Vista,
>>> VST, ASIO, WDM all still work, so developers aren't buying Microsoft's
pitch
>>> to move to their own internal driver/protocol. I believe at least one
of
>>> the developers in that article expressed reservations over trusting their
>>> product to a protocol (WaveRT) that was held by an OS developer that
had
>> no
>>> direct interest in professional audio (sound familiar now? They've learned
>>> from the Apple experience, and past Microsoft experience - DirectX for
one).
>>>
>>> I think the moral of the story is that pro audio is best handled by
>>> developers in that market, not companies more interested in selling
>>> operating systems, home computers, and/or iToys.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dedric
>>
>> Sometimes You guys kill me with your anti Mac/Apple opinions. When MS
goes
>> proprietary you guys call it a standard, and you accept it. If Apple
does
>> it, it's a problem. AU is a ground up rewrite of their audio software
system.
>> They did it to improve audio on Mac OS. I don't like that they dropped
>> VST support in some of their software, but you still have other choices
on
>> a Mac to use VSTs, including your favorites from Steinberg. Many new
plugin
>> development companies showed up because the new AU format created new
>> opportunities
>> for start ups. It's all good.
>>
>> By the way, read this: http://www.voxengo.com/press/114/
>>
>>>
>>> On 9/7/07 9:16 AM, in article 46e16b5e$1@linux, "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Okay fam, I just read a very interesting article in July's 07 SOS (Sound
>> On
>>>> Sound -What The Devlopers Think) about the state of MS Vista AND is
it
>> time
>>>> for (Them DAW manufactuers) to go 64 bit.
>>>>
>>>> Well, the article featured most of the heavey hitters in the industry
>> (RME,
>>>> M-Audio, Native Instruments, Steingberg, Cakewalk, Lynx .
>>>>
>>>> As far as 64 bit in the DAW most , except Cakewalk, feels that it's
not
>>>> needed.
>>>> But, you get the feeling that they say this because of the work involved.
>>>> Secondly, They're not impreesed(except Cakewalk) with Microsoft's new
>> built-in
>>>> audio hooks (WaveRT).. RME stated thay would stay with ASIO, and Not
Adopt
>>>> the Vista standard..
>>>>
>>>> OK. Rant:
>>>> When Apple completly re-coded their OS witha NEW Audio engine standard
>>>> AUDIO-Units.
>>>> At that time, ASIO, WMD & MAS where the NAtive standards, but Apple
went
>>>> their own way. So what did the Developers do...They started coding their
>>>> apps, plugins, audio interfaces with Auduo-Unit drivers.
>>>>
>>>> Now, that Microsoft is proposing the same thing, these very same companies
>>>> are balking. Why? Even with Lower latency and less pull on the CPU,like
>>>> Apple's
>>>> Audio Unit design, their balking.
>>>>
>>>> Next point:
>>>> To all of those who state the only useful purpose for 64 bit is to break
>>>> the 4 gig memory limitation (for Samplers) in Bull!
>>>>
>>>> The problem is that the DAWS are all using 32 bit coding. #2 bit apps
>> on
>>>> a 64 bit os and processor will only get you marginal gains...But, A
True
>>>> 64 DAW/App using a 64 bit CPU,64 bit plugins
>>>> we we see astouding gains in performance.
>>>>
>>>> I'll stop now. But, we need to let the manufacturers know (what they
already
>>>> know) and that is the Windows train is moving and even if Vista is not
>> the
>>>> OS, the Next version will be the right one and it will be 64 bit.. Companies
>>>> like RME & Steinbergs will get left behind if they don't start moving
>> in
>>>> that 64 bit direction).
>>>>
>>>> To may of us have Pre-Invested in 64 bit CPUs with the promise of 64
bit
>>>> processing. Apple will be there soon with OS-x 64 with a newly re-wriiten
>>>> version of Logic (64 bit). Digi and Motu will be on the 64 bit train
as
>>>> well..Chooo
>>>> chooooc choo...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>Thad, you are talkign about 2 different market segments. The 'Bedroom" type
who 48 tracks is more than enough..Then there are the power users like myself
where are song tracking session can reach upwards to 90 plus (before editing)
with power hungry plugins, and low latency for those running ITB.
All in all, the power "Native" daw user does not want to go over to HD-TDM.
They want it all(Power) natively. They wan t Pro Tools Power in Natively..
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>One question, Dedric. Why do we need an OS dedicated to audio/video production?
>XP or OS X + software + quality audio interface gives me a 48 track digital
>studio in my living room. What's missing from that?
>
>Also, if you want to try it out Ubuntu Studio is actually shipping. I haven't
>installed it but we just got 20 dual processor dual core Dell workstations
>into my office and I just might try one of them with it for kicks . . .
>
>TCB
>
>Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>James and Jamie,
>>
>>Well I'll reply to you and Jamie together to conserve electrons... ;-)
>>
>>I think you both missed my point, and assumed this was a slight against
>>Apple. It wasn't.
>>
>>The thread was actually about Vista and the article in which few developers
>>showed any enthusiasm for it, and in several cases almost outright
>>rejection. I don't blame them. OS developers really don't, and sadly,
>>can't put the interests of professional audio users at the forefront.
Their
>>first customers are consumers.
>>
>>Core audio is cool (great compared to other OS-embedded audio protocols,
>>unless we bring BeOS back) and Apple seems to have done a respectable job
>by
>>including such core media hooks in the OS (core animation too). However,
>>the point is how much a full time professional can or should really trust
>>the performance of their DAW to a company that makes 10x selling phones,
>or
>>operating systems (Apple or MS). Of course that's a paradox - we have
no
>>choice.
>>
>>Truly Apple has made 100x the effort vs. MS in supporting the pro
>>audio/video market (well, 100 x 0 would be 0, but you get the point ;-).
>>The point was that it wasn't developed for Steinberg's best interests,
or
>>Digidesign's, or MOTU's (where is MAS?), but Apple's. Logic was the first
>>to support OSX because it was an Apple product, Jamie. Does Apple really
>>release full SDKs to 3rd parties when they start developing their apps
for
>>that new design, or do they wait until they release their app, then forward
>>the SDKs... ;-)
>>
>>Just don't assume that because I include Apple in a general discussion
that
>>I'm bashing Macs. Let's also not poo poo Steinberg just because ASIO and
>>VST weren't developed by Apple. They really did make native DAWs a reality
>>(moreso than Emagic or MOTU if we look at the life of ASIO and VST vs.
MAS
>>or whatever Emagic's shortlived driver was called - I should remember...).
>>Steinberg is far from perfect, but that doesn't make Apple the sudden
>>defender of the pro audio world by default. ;-)
>>
>>If you are a Mac audio user (or PC user facing the sad reality that is
>>Vista), fear the iPhone.... fear Garageband.... ;-)
>>
>>Ideally we really need an OS developed "for" audio/video alone, not home
>>movies, not downloading mp3s, not posting pics of the family vacation.
>But
>>that opens up a whole other can of worms. I guess the worms we have are
>as
>>good as it gets, at least until they are all used up trying to catch bigger
>>fish.
>>
>>James - I think your link supports my comment that Vista sucks (if Aleksey,
>>who was never going to port to OSX, now is, things are looking grim for
>MS
>>and PC DAW users...). ;-)) (yes, I said it, and yes I believe it - it looks
>>cool, but ... well I'll save the list for another day). I'm just hoping
>>Nuendo 4 rocks on the Mac, so at least I have a backup. (I still think
>it
>>sucks that with Macs I have to buy average hardware at premium prices when
>I
>>could build a much more robust, higher end DAW for 20-30% less).
>>
>>Oh, btw - in that link Aleksey talks about fixing a /3GB switch bug - that
>>was yours truly that found that bug (cool of Aleksey to fix it so quickly;
>>not so cool of MS to make Vista the next stop in the roadmap to 64 bit
and
>>where we would have no more need for it).
>>
>>Regards,
>>Dedric
>>
>>On 9/7/07 10:40 AM, in article 46e17f14$1@linux, "James McCloskey"
>><excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>> I read the article a while back, and I think there are multiple sides
>to
>>>> this:
>>>>
>>>> 1 - Vista isn't great for low latency audio. WaveRT is still, afaik,
>just
>>> a
>>>> marketing feature, not proven in reality for pro audio.
>>>>
>>>> 2 - Cakewalk has staked their marketing on 64-bit in order to attempt
>to
>>>> separate themselves from the market. Reality is (or so it seems from
>tests
>>>> I've seen), there is little advantage for the audio engine, and for
the
>>> OS,
>>>> memory access is the main advantage. 64-bit apps in a 64-bit OS can
>gain
>>>> some performance gains, but so far that appears to be minimal).
>>>>
>>>> 3 - Apple hasn't really worked for, or to the advantage of DAW/audio
>>>> developers, except their own (Final Cut Pro and iTunes/QT/iLife being
>their
>>>> main interests here, with Logic running a distant 5th, or 10th). Core
>audio
>>>> is likely a 30% technical decision (easier to implement than someone
>else's
>>>> protocol), and 70% product control - what you develop yourself, you
can
>>>> market, control and use to differentiate your product. ASIO is perfectly
>>>> fast, and stable on WinXP, but it's Steinberg's protocol, not Apple's.
>>> For
>>>> example, direct monitoring still isn't supported by most hardware or
>>>> software for OSX, and was questionable for core audio (whether this
has
>>> been
>>>> slow to develop, or slow to release the SDK for, I don't know) - even
>Logic
>>>> doesn't have it. Apple just isn't interested in supporting 3rd party
>audio
>>>> applications or protocols for the Mac purely because they have a direct
>>>> vested interest in their own, and in selling more Macs.
>>>>
>>>> Developers adopted AU and Core Audio because they had to in order to
>survive
>>>> - most of them already had Mac products they would simply lose if they
>>>> didn't. Notice that some developers that didn't have Mac support, never
>>>> moved to AU (Voxengo for one; Algorithmix, etc). It was a forced decision
>>>> since VST, ASIO, etc had been dropped, just as Logic 5/PC was - if it
>>>> doesn't make money for Apple, it is unceremoniously canned. With Vista,
>>>> VST, ASIO, WDM all still work, so developers aren't buying Microsoft's
>pitch
>>>> to move to their own internal driver/protocol. I believe at least one
>of
>>>> the developers in that article expressed reservations over trusting
their
>>>> product to a protocol (WaveRT) that was held by an OS developer that
>had
>>> no
>>>> direct interest in professional audio (sound familiar now? They've
learned
>>>> from the Apple experience, and past Microsoft experience - DirectX for
>one).
>>>>
>>>> I think the moral of the story is that pro audio is best handled by
>>>> developers in that market, not companies more interested in selling
>>>> operating systems, home computers, and/or iToys.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Dedric
>>>
>>> Sometimes You guys kill me with your anti Mac/Apple opinions. When MS
>goes
>>> proprietary you guys call it a standard, and you accept it. If Apple
>does
>>> it, it's a problem. AU is a ground up rewrite of their audio software
>system.
>>> They did it to improve audio on Mac OS. I don't like that they dropped
>>> VST support in some of their software, but you still have other choices
>on
>>> a Mac to use VSTs, including your favorites from Steinberg. Many new
>plugin
>>> development companies showed up because the new AU format created new
>>> opportunities
>>> for start ups. It's all good.
>>>
>>> By the way, read this: http://www.voxengo.com/press/114/
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/7/07 9:16 AM, in article 46e16b5e$1@linux, "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Okay fam, I just read a very interesting article in July's 07 SOS (Sound
>>> On
>>>>> Sound -What The Devlopers Think) about the state of MS Vista AND is
>it
>>> time
>>>>> for (Them DAW manufactuers) to go 64 bit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, the article featured most of the heavey hitters in the industry
>>> (RME,
>>>>> M-Audio, Native Instruments, Steingberg, Cakewalk, Lynx .
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as 64 bit in the DAW most , except Cakewalk, feels that it's
>not
>>>>> needed.
>>>>> But, you get the feeling that they say this because of the work involved.
>>>>> Secondly, They're not impreesed(except Cakewalk) with Microsoft's new
>>> built-in
>>>>> audio hooks (WaveRT).. RME stated thay would stay with ASIO, and Not
>Adopt
>>>>> the Vista standard..
>>>>>
>>>>> OK. Rant:
>>>>> When Apple completly re-coded their OS witha NEW Audio engine standard
>>>>> AUDIO-Units.
>>>>> At that time, ASIO, WMD & MAS where the NAtive standards, but Apple
>went
>>>>> their own way. So what did the Developers do...They started coding
their
>>>>> apps, plugins, audio interfaces with Auduo-Unit drivers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, that Microsoft is proposing the same thing, these very same companies
>>>>> are balking. Why? Even with Lower latency and less pull on the CPU,like
>>>>> Apple's
>>>>> Audio Unit design, their balking.
>>>>>
>>>>> Next point:
>>>>> To all of those who state the only useful purpose for 64 bit is to
break
>>>>> the 4 gig memory limitation (for Samplers) in Bull!
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem is that the DAWS are all using 32 bit coding. #2 bit apps
>>> on
>>>>> a 64 bit os and processor will only get you marginal gains...But, A
>True
>>>>> 64 DAW/App using a 64 bit CPU,64 bit plugins
>>>>> we we see astouding gains in performance.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll stop now. But, we need to let the manufacturers know (what they
>already
>>>>> know) and that is the Windows train is moving and even if Vista is
not
>>> the
>>>>> OS, the Next version will be the right one and it will be 64 bit..
Companies
>>>>> like RME & Steinbergs will get left behind if they don't start moving
>>> in
>>>>> that 64 bit direction).
>>>>>
>>>>> To may of us have Pre-Invested in 64 bit CPUs with the promise of 64
>bit
>>>>> processing. Apple will be there soon with OS-x 64 with a newly re-wriiten
>>>>> version of Logic (64 bit). Digi and Motu will be on the 64 bit train
>as
>>>>> well..Chooo
>>>>> chooooc choo...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>A long time ago I had a friend who told to never make a rough mix sound too
good. His premise was that sometimes people would like the roughs so much
that they wouldn't even come back for the finished mixes. And this was
back in the cassette days! I once had a client who I had co-produced who
reneged on our deal threaten to take rough mixes to mastering when we refused
to give him the final mixes. We finally caved just to keep the inferior
mixes from getting released.
Gantt
"Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>This is a tricky on Gantt. I've run into this before. Now, I just make
>project arrangements beforehand so that it doesn't happen. Letting the
>roughs go is cheaper for the client, but you will potentially look better
>(advertise your talents/studio) - and them too!!!! - if you can "mix" them
>up. I would just talk to them and explain it best you can - but if they
>can't hear the difference OR think it's worth it, then it's not gonna be
in
>your interest to hassle them about it, and you should just let it go. Maybe
>ask them to give you proper credit that perhaps mentions that it wasn't
>mixed.
>
>good luck,
>-Carl
>
>
>"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:46e0dbd2$1@linux...
>>
>> When you give a client a bunch of rough mixes and he/she thinks they sound
>> so good that they must be almost done (like, maybe only another 15 or
20
>> minutes of work, 30 tops) but you haven't done ANY of the things that
you
>> know need to be done to a good sounding finished mix, like using some
nice
>> sounding plugins, setting up some automation to keep v
|
|
|
|
| Re: Paris Perspective: [message #87925 is a reply to message #87924] |
Tue, 10 July 2007 23:02 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
oices and solos
on
>> top of the music and maybe even (God forbid!!!) tuning a note here and
>there.
>> And then they find out that the GOOD mixes take an hour or two or even
>three,
>> never mind the big production numbers that eat up 8 or 9 hours of editing
>> and mixing time and STILL need some tweaking to be "just right".
>>
>> Most of my clients sweat at least a little blood for every dollar they
pay
>> me. I have to try to strike a ballance between what I want and what they
>> need. I had one project where I just gave up on doing all my fancy mix
>tricks.
>> I slapped my UAD-1 plugs and my Waves plugs on a few tunes and he came
>back
>> saying "I like the rough mixes better".
>>
>> So... What do you do?
>>
>> Gantt
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>Hey dedric.. That was called (Emagic Driver EASI) :)
>
>well, I for onehave taken pre-emtive measures to secire a Mac Pro (8 core)
>Running Cubase SX. I purchased from a friend for a really good price. I
hadhim
>show me what Sx was like on OS-X/Intel..Bottem line. It handled 80 pus tracks
>imported form a Pro Tools session.
>
>I was sold. He een demostrated SX on his G5-quad. 80 plus tracks, plugins..
>No problem..
>
>That's why this I felt that article was so disturbing. I see greater and
>greater movement to OS_X and Core audio-audio units. You just get a sense
>that Apple has the momentum with the pro audio and video market. And , sadly
>my hunches are dead on..
>
>With theis Vista fiasco, I think Ms has slammed it's door on our community.
>But, MS has a lot money invested in AVID, so Digidesign must know something
>we don't..
>The next few years should be interesting..
>
>I will be testing Paris on the Mac Pro (running win XP..via boot camp. Won;t
>hurt to see what happens..
>Stay tuned.
LaMont, are you going to run a Magma? I don't think the PCI thing will work
with out it. This will be interesting!
>
>Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>James and Jamie,
>>
>>Well I'll reply to you and Jamie together to conserve electrons... ;-)
>>
>>I think you both missed my point, and assumed this was a slight against
>>Apple. It wasn't.
>>
>>The thread was actually about Vista and the article in which few developers
>>showed any enthusiasm for it, and in several cases almost outright
>>rejection. I don't blame them. OS developers really don't, and sadly,
>>can't put the interests of professional audio users at the forefront.
Their
>>first customers are consumers.
>>
>>Core audio is cool (great compared to other OS-embedded audio protocols,
>>unless we bring BeOS back) and Apple seems to have done a respectable job
>by
>>including such core media hooks in the OS (core animation too). However,
>>the point is how much a full time professional can or should really trust
>>the performance of their DAW to a company that makes 10x selling phones,
>or
>>operating systems (Apple or MS). Of course that's a paradox - we have
no
>>choice.
>>
>>Truly Apple has made 100x the effort vs. MS in supporting the pro
>>audio/video market (well, 100 x 0 would be 0, but you get the point ;-).
>>The point was that it wasn't developed for Steinberg's best interests,
or
>>Digidesign's, or MOTU's (where is MAS?), but Apple's. Logic was the first
>>to support OSX because it was an Apple product, Jamie. Does Apple really
>>release full SDKs to 3rd parties when they start developing their apps
for
>>that new design, or do they wait until they release their app, then forward
>>the SDKs... ;-)
>>
>>Just don't assume that because I include Apple in a general discussion
that
>>I'm bashing Macs. Let's also not poo poo Steinberg just because ASIO and
>>VST weren't developed by Apple. They really did make native DAWs a reality
>>(moreso than Emagic or MOTU if we look at the life of ASIO and VST vs.
MAS
>>or whatever Emagic's shortlived driver was called - I should remember...).
>>Steinberg is far from perfect, but that doesn't make Apple the sudden
>>defender of the pro audio world by default. ;-)
>>
>>If you are a Mac audio user (or PC user facing the sad reality that is
>>Vista), fear the iPhone.... fear Garageband.... ;-)
>>
>>Ideally we really need an OS developed "for" audio/video alone, not home
>>movies, not downloading mp3s, not posting pics of the family vacation.
>But
>>that opens up a whole other can of worms. I guess the worms we have are
>as
>>good as it gets, at least until they are all used up trying to catch bigger
>>fish.
>>
>>James - I think your link supports my comment that Vista sucks (if Aleksey,
>>who was never going to port to OSX, now is, things are looking grim for
>MS
>>and PC DAW users...). ;-)) (yes, I said it, and yes I believe it - it looks
>>cool, but ... well I'll save the list for another day). I'm just hoping
>>Nuendo 4 rocks on the Mac, so at least I have a backup. (I still think
>it
>>sucks that with Macs I have to buy average hardware at premium prices when
>I
>>could build a much more robust, higher end DAW for 20-30% less).
>>
>>Oh, btw - in that link Aleksey talks about fixing a /3GB switch bug - that
>>was yours truly that found that bug (cool of Aleksey to fix it so quickly;
>>not so cool of MS to make Vista the next stop in the roadmap to 64 bit
and
>>where we would have no more need for it).
>>
>>Regards,
>>Dedric
>>
>>On 9/7/07 10:40 AM, in article 46e17f14$1@linux, "James McCloskey"
>><excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>> I read the article a while back, and I think there are multiple sides
>to
>>>> this:
>>>>
>>>> 1 - Vista isn't great for low latency audio. WaveRT is still, afaik,
>just
>>> a
>>>> marketing feature, not proven in reality for pro audio.
>>>>
>>>> 2 - Cakewalk has staked their marketing on 64-bit in order to attempt
>to
>>>> separate themselves from the market. Reality is (or so it seems from
>tests
>>>> I've seen), there is little advantage for the audio engine, and for
the
>>> OS,
>>>> memory access is the main advantage. 64-bit apps in a 64-bit OS can
>gain
>>>> some performance gains, but so far that appears to be minimal).
>>>>
>>>> 3 - Apple hasn't really worked for, or to the advantage of DAW/audio
>>>> developers, except their own (Final Cut Pro and iTunes/QT/iLife being
>their
>>>> main interests here, with Logic running a distant 5th, or 10th). Core
>audio
>>>> is likely a 30% technical decision (easier to implement than someone
>else's
>>>> protocol), and 70% product control - what you develop yourself, you
can
>>>> market, control and use to differentiate your product. ASIO is perfectly
>>>> fast, and stable on WinXP, but it's Steinberg's protocol, not Apple's.
>>> For
>>>> example, direct monitoring still isn't supported by most hardware or
>>>> software for OSX, and was questionable for core audio (whether this
has
>>> been
>>>> slow to develop, or slow to release the SDK for, I don't know) - even
>Logic
>>>> doesn't have it. Apple just isn't interested in supporting 3rd party
>audio
>>>> applications or protocols for the Mac purely because they have a direct
>>>> vested interest in their own, and in selling more Macs.
>>>>
>>>> Developers adopted AU and Core Audio because they had to in order to
>survive
>>>> - most of them already had Mac products they would simply lose if they
>>>> didn't. Notice that some developers that didn't have Mac support, never
>>>> moved to AU (Voxengo for one; Algorithmix, etc). It was a forced decision
>>>> since VST, ASIO, etc had been dropped, just as Logic 5/PC was - if it
>>>> doesn't make money for Apple, it is unceremoniously canned. With Vista,
>>>> VST, ASIO, WDM all still work, so developers aren't buying Microsoft's
>pitch
>>>> to move to their own internal driver/protocol. I believe at least one
>of
>>>> the developers in that article expressed reservations over trusting
their
>>>> product to a protocol (WaveRT) that was held by an OS developer that
>had
>>> no
>>>> direct interest in professional audio (sound familiar now? They've
learned
>>>> from the Apple experience, and past Microsoft experience - DirectX for
>one).
>>>>
>>>> I think the moral of the story is that pro audio is best handled by
>>>> developers in that market, not companies more interested in selling
>>>> operating systems, home computers, and/or iToys.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Dedric
>>>
>>> Sometimes You guys kill me with your anti Mac/Apple opinions. When MS
>goes
>>> proprietary you guys call it a standard, and you accept it. If Apple
>does
>>> it, it's a problem. AU is a ground up rewrite of their audio software
>system.
>>> They did it to improve audio on Mac OS. I don't like that they dropped
>>> VST support in some of their software, but you still have other choices
>on
>>> a Mac to use VSTs, including your favorites from Steinberg. Many new
>plugin
>>> development companies showed up because the new AU format created new
>>> opportunities
>>> for start ups. It's all good.
>>>
>>> By the way, read this: http://www.voxengo.com/press/114/
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/7/07 9:16 AM, in article 46e16b5e$1@linux, "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Okay fam, I just read a very interesting article in July's 07 SOS (Sound
>>> On
>>>>> Sound -What The Devlopers Think) about the state of MS Vista AND is
>it
>>> time
>>>>> for (Them DAW manufactuers) to go 64 bit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, the article featured most of the heavey hitters in the industry
>>> (RME,
>>>>> M-Audio, Native Instruments, Steingberg, Cakewalk, Lynx .
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as 64 bit in the DAW most , except Cakewalk, feels that it's
>not
>>>>> needed.
>>>>> But, you get the feeling that they say this because of the work involved.
>>>>> Secondly, They're not impreesed(except Cakewalk) with Microsoft's new
>>> built-in
>>>>> audio hooks (WaveRT).. RME stated thay would stay with ASIO, and Not
>Adopt
>>>>> the Vista standard..
>>>>>
>>>>> OK. Rant:
>>>>> When Apple completly re-coded their OS witha NEW Audio engine standard
>>>>> AUDIO-Units.
>>>>> At that time, ASIO, WMD & MAS where the NAtive standards, but Apple
>went
>>>>> their own way. So what did the Developers do...They started coding
their
>>>>> apps, plugins, audio interfaces with Auduo-Unit drivers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, that Microsoft is proposing the same thing, these very same companies
>>>>> are balking. Why? Even with Lower latency and less pull on the CPU,like
>>>>> Apple's
>>>>> Audio Unit design, their balking.
>>>>>
>>>>> Next point:
>>>>> To all of those who state the only useful purpose for 64 bit is to
break
>>>>> the 4 gig memory limitation (for Samplers) in Bull!
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem is that the DAWS are all using 32 bit coding. #2 bit apps
>>> on
>>>>> a 64 bit os and processor will only get you marginal gains...But, A
>True
>>>>> 64 DAW/App using a 64 bit CPU,64 bit plugins
>>>>> we we see astouding gains in performance.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll stop now. But, we need to let the manufacturers know (what they
>already
>>>>> know) and that is the Windows train is moving and even if Vista is
not
>>> the
>>>>> OS, the Next version will be the right one and it will be 64 bit..
Companies
>>>>> like RME & Steinbergs will get left behind if they don't start moving
>>> in
>>>>> that 64 bit direction).
>>>>>
>>>>> To may of us have Pre-Invested in 64 bit CPUs with the promise of 64
>bit
>>>>> processing. Apple will be there soon with OS-x 64 with a newly re-wriiten
>>>>> version of Logic (64 bit). Digi and Motu will be on the 64 bit train
>as
>>>>> well..Chooo
>>>>> chooooc choo...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>Dedric Terry wrote:
> James and Jamie,
>
> Well I'll reply to you and Jamie together to conserve electrons... ;-)
Apple sucks! There, now you can tell us apart. :^)
> I think you both missed my point, and assumed this was a slight against
> Apple. It wasn't.
Nope. I got your other insightful point about Vista, accepted it and
deleted it because I wanted to talk about the other stuff. :^)
> The thread was actually about Vista and the article in which few developers
> showed any enthusiasm for it, and in several cases almost outright
> rejection. I don't blame them. OS developers really don't, and sadly,
> can't put the interests of professional audio users at the forefront. Their
> first customers are consumers.
>
> Core audio is cool (great compared to other OS-embedded audio protocols,
> unless we bring BeOS back)
BoOS showed the way...
> and Apple seems to have done a respectable job by
> including such core media hooks in the OS (core animation too). However,
> the point is how much a full time professional can or should really trust
> the performance of their DAW to a company that makes 10x selling phones, or
> operating systems (Apple or MS). Of course that's a paradox - we have no
> choice.
Sure we do, just buy a different OSX DAW. There's more than just Logic
on OSX, and Apple is not poisoning the market against other DAWS.
> Truly Apple has made 100x the effort vs. MS in supporting the pro
> audio/video market (well, 100 x 0 would be 0, but you get the point ;-).
> The point was that it wasn't developed for Steinberg's best interests, or
> Digidesign's, or MOTU's (where is MAS?), but Apple's. Logic was the first
> to support OSX because it was an Apple product, Jamie.
I think the support began with Emagic before Apple bought Logic. Pretty
sure.
> Does Apple really
> release full SDKs to 3rd parties when they start developing their apps for
> that new design, or do they wait until they release their app, then forward
> the SDKs... ;-)
Ask MOTU. I think Apple has been very open with the developers, actually.
> Just don't assume that because I include Apple in a general discussion that
> I'm bashing Macs.
I'm not. You just overlooked a few things, IMO. Framed it differently
than I would, from my experience.
> Let's also not poo poo Steinberg just because ASIO and
> VST weren't developed by Apple.
Again, I'm not attacking Steinberg in some weird illogical scheme to
make Apple look better.
I just mentioned that Steinberg's control of a standard caused its share
of problems with other developers. I didn't say it was a bad standard.
But Apple had the opportunity to make a clean start on a platform
standard for OSX. To be clear, I thought that was fine but they should
have also supported VST. Some apps still support both on OSX.
> They really did make native DAWs a reality
> (moreso than Emagic or MOTU if we look at the life of ASIO and VST vs. MAS
> or whatever Emagic's shortlived driver was called - I should remember...).
We should all remember a lot of things, like, uh, I forget... :^)
What's cool is that the competition between Steinberg and Emagic
produced a lot of progress, with great vision and tenacity in both
companies. Add Native Instruments, MOTU, plus a few more = tons of good
stuff that we benefit from now. I am very grateful for all of this.
> Steinberg is far from perfect, but that doesn't make Apple the sudden
> defender of the pro audio world by default. ;-)
Not my claim.
> If you are a Mac audio user (or PC user facing the sad reality that is
> Vista), fear the iPhone.... fear Garageband.... ;-)
I fear nothing. If Apple can continue to grow using a strategy built on
supporting creative tools on the one hand and distribution/user tools on
the other, that's a comprehensive vision, a flow from creation to market.
> Ideally we really need an OS developed "for" audio/video alone, not home
> movies, not downloading mp3s, not posting pics of the family vacation. But
> that opens up a whole other can of worms. I guess the worms we have are as
> good as it gets, at least until they are all used up trying to catch bigger
> fish.
I don't see how having a computer system that can play a movie makes it
harder for that same system to make one. IOW, there's more synergy than
distraction between those applications.
> James - I think your link supports my comment that Vista sucks (if Aleksey,
> who was never going to port to OSX, now is, things are looking grim for MS
> and PC DAW users...). ;-)) (yes, I said it, and yes I believe it - it looks
> cool, but ... well I'll save the list for another day). I'm just hoping
> Nuendo 4 rocks on the Mac, so at least I have a backup. (I still think it
> sucks that with Macs I have to buy average hardware at premium prices when I
> could build a much more robust, higher end DAW for 20-30% less).
Don't give up, Dedric. Don't switch. Apple needs competition and I don't
want to quit using the Mac yet. So go to Linux if Vista gets completely
unlivable, but PLEASE AVOID THE MAC!!!! The day you switch, prices will
go up...
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
> Oh, btw - in that link Aleksey talks about fixing a /3GB switch bug - that
> was yours truly that found that bug (cool of Aleksey to fix it so quickly;
> not so cool of MS to make Vista the next stop in the roadmap to 64 bit and
> where we would have no more need for it).
>
> Regards,
> Dedric
>
> On 9/7/07 10:40 AM, in article 46e17f14$1@linux, "James McCloskey"
> <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>> I read the article a while back, and I think there are multiple sides to
>>> this:
>>>
>>> 1 - Vista isn't great for low latency audio. WaveRT is still, afaik, just
>> a
>>> marketing feature, not proven in reality for pro audio.
>>>
>>> 2 - Cakewalk has staked their marketing on 64-bit in order to attempt to
>>> separate themselves from the market. Reality is (or so it seems from tests
>>> I've seen), there is little advantage for the audio engine, and for the
>> OS,
>>> memory access is the main advantage. 64-bit apps in a 64-bit OS can gain
>>> some performance gains, but so far that appears to be minimal).
>>>
>>> 3 - Apple hasn't really worked for, or to the advantage of DAW/audio
>>> developers, except their own (Final Cut Pro and iTunes/QT/iLife being their
>>> main interests here, with Logic running a distant 5th, or 10th). Core audio
>>> is likely a 30% technical decision (easier to implement than someone else's
>>> protocol), and 70% product control - what you develop yourself, you can
>>> market, control and use to differentiate your product. ASIO is perfectly
>>> fast, and stable on WinXP, but it's Steinberg's protocol, not Apple's.
>> For
>>> example, direct monitoring still isn't supported by most hardware or
>>> software for OSX, and was questionable for core audio (whether this has
>> been
>>> slow to develop, or slow to release the SDK for, I don't know) - even Logic
>>> doesn't have it. Apple just isn't interested in supporting 3rd party audio
>>> applications or protocols for the Mac purely because they have a direct
>>> vested interest in their own, and in selling more Macs.
>>>
>>> Developers adopted AU and Core Audio because they had to in order to survive
>>> - most of them already had Mac products they would simply lose if they
>>> didn't. Notice that some developers that didn't have Mac support, never
>>> moved to AU (Voxengo for one; Algorithmix, etc). It was a forced decision
>>> since VST, ASIO, etc had been dropped, just as Logic 5/PC was - if it
>>> doesn't make money for Apple, it is unceremoniously canned. With Vista,
>>> VST, ASIO, WDM all still work, so developers aren't buying Microsoft's pitch
>>> to move to their own internal driver/protocol. I believe at least one of
>>> the developers in that article expressed reservations over trusting their
>>> product to a protocol (WaveRT) that was held by an OS developer that had
>> no
>>> direct interest in professional audio (sound familiar now? They've learned
>>> from the Apple experience, and past Microsoft experience - DirectX for one).
>>>
>>> I think the moral of the story is that pro audio is best handled by
>>> developers in that market, not companies more interested in selling
>>> operating systems, home computers, and/or iToys.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dedric
>> Sometimes You guys kill me with your anti Mac/Apple opinions. When MS goes
>> proprietary you guys call it a standard, and you accept it. If Apple does
>> it, it's a problem. AU is a ground up rewrite of their audio software system.
>> They did it to improve audio on Mac OS. I don't like that they dropped
>> VST support in some of their software, but you still have other choices on
>> a Mac to use VSTs, including your favorites from Steinberg. Many new plugin
>> development companies showed up because the new AU format created new
>> opportunities
>> for start ups. It's all good.
>>
>> By the way, read this: http://www.voxengo.com/press/114/
>>
>>> On 9/7/07 9:16 AM, in article 46e16b5e$1@linux, "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Okay fam, I just read a very interesting article in July's 07 SOS (Sound
>> On
>>>> Sound -What The Devlopers Think) about the state of MS Vista AND is it
>> time
>>>> for (Them DAW manufactuers) to go 64 bit.
>>>>
>>>> Well, the article featured most of the heavey hitters in the industry
>> (RME,
>>>> M-Audio, Native Instruments, Steingberg, Cakewalk, Lynx .
>>>>
>>>> As far as 64 bit in the DAW most , except Cakewalk, feels that it's not
>>>> needed.
>>>> But, you get the feeling that they say this because of the work involved.
>>>> Secondly, They're not impreesed(except Cakewalk) with Microsoft's new
>> built-in
>>>> audio hooks (WaveRT).. RME stated thay would stay with ASIO, and Not Adopt
>>>> the Vista standard..
>>>>
>>>> OK. Rant:
>>>> When Apple completly re-coded their OS witha NEW Audio engine standard
>>>> AUDIO-Units.
>>>> At that time, ASIO, WMD & MAS where the NAtive standards, but Apple went
>>>> their own way. So what did the Developers do...They started coding their
>>>> apps, plugins, audio interfaces with Auduo-Unit drivers.
>>>>
>>>> Now, that Microsoft is proposing the same thing, these very same companies
>>>> are balking. Why? Even with Lower latency and less pull on the CPU,like
>>>> Apple's
>>>> Audio Unit design, their balking.
>>>>
>>>> Next point:
>>>> To all of those who state the only useful purpose for 64 bit is to break
>>>> the 4 gig memory limitation (for Samplers) in Bull!
>>>>
>>>> The problem is that the DAWS are all using 32 bit coding. #2 bit apps
>> on
>>>> a 64 bit os and processor will only get you marginal gains...But, A True
>>>> 64 DAW/App using a 64 bit CPU,64 bit plugins
>>>> we we see astouding gains in performance.
>>>>
>>>> I'll stop now. But, we need to let the manufacturers know (what they already
>>>> know) and that is the Windows train is moving and even if Vista is not
>> the
>>>> OS, the Next version will be the right one and it will be 64 bit.. Companies
>>>> like RME & Steinbergs will get left behind if they don't start moving
>> in
>>>> that 64 bit direction).
>>>>
>>>> To may of us have Pre-Invested in 64 bit CPUs with the promise of 64 bit
>>>> processing. Apple will be there soon with OS-x 64 with a newly re-wriiten
>>>> version of Logic (64 bit). Digi and Motu will be on the 64 bit train as
>>>> well..Chooo
>>>> chooooc choo...
>>>>
>>>>
>TCB wrote:
> One question, Dedric. Why do we need an OS dedicated to audio/video production?
> XP or OS X + software + quality audio interface gives me a 48 track digital
> studio in my living room. What's missing from that?
Talent?
JUST KIDDING!!!! Didn't mean you, Thad.
But listening to some of the home produced music that's out there, it
isn't the gear holding people back any more...
> Also, if you want to try it out Ubuntu Studio is actually shipping. I haven't
> installed it but we just got 20 dual processor dual core Dell workstations
> into my office and I just might try one of them with it for kicks . . .
Please do, and let us know what you think!
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
> TCB
>
> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>> James and Jamie,
>>
>> Well I'll reply to you and Jamie together to conserve electrons... ;-)
>>
>> I think you both missed my point, and assumed this was a slight against
>> Apple. It wasn't.
>>
>> The thread was actually about Vista and the article in which few developers
>> showed any enthusiasm for it, and in several cases almost outright
>> rejection. I don't blame them. OS developers really don't, and sadly,
>> can't put the interests of professional audio users at the forefront. Their
>> first customers are consumers.
>>
>> Core audio is cool (great compared to other OS-embedded audio protocols,
>> unless we bring BeOS back) and Apple seems to have done a respectable job
> by
>> including such core media hooks in the OS (core animation too). However,
>> the point is how much a full time professional can or should really trust
>> the performance of their DAW to a company that makes 10x selling phones,
> or
>> operating systems (Apple or MS). Of course that's a paradox - we have no
>> choice.
>>
>> Truly Apple has made 100x the effort vs. MS in supporting the pro
>> audio/video market (well, 100 x 0 would be 0, but you get the point ;-).
>> The point was that it wasn't developed for Steinberg's best interests, or
>> Digidesign's, or MOTU's (where is MAS?), but Apple's. Logic was the first
>> to support OSX because it was an Apple product, Jamie. Does Apple really
>> release full SDKs to 3rd parties when they start developing their apps for
>> that new design, or do they wait until they release their app, then forward
>> the SDKs... ;-)
>>
>> Just don't assume that because I include Apple in a general discussion that
>> I'm bashing Macs. Let's also not poo poo Steinberg just because ASIO and
>> VST weren't developed by Apple. They really did make native DAWs a reality
>> (moreso than Emagic or MOTU if we look at the life of ASIO and VST vs. MAS
>> or whatever Emagic's shortlived driver was called - I should remember...).
>> Steinberg is far from perfect, but that doesn't make Apple the sudden
>> defender of the pro audio world by default. ;-)
>>
>> If you are a Mac audio user (or PC user facing the sad reality that is
>> Vista), fear the iPhone.... fear Garageband.... ;-)
>>
>> Ideally we really need an OS developed "for" audio/video alone, not home
>> movies, not downloading mp3s, not posting pics of the family vacation.
> But
>> that opens up a whole other can of worms. I guess the worms we have are
> as
>> good as it gets, at least until they are all used up trying to catch bigger
>> fish.
>>
>> James - I think your link supports my comment that Vista sucks (if Aleksey,
>> who was never going to port to OSX, now is, things are looking grim for
> MS
>> and PC DAW users...). ;-)) (yes, I said it, and yes I believe it - it looks
>> cool, but ... well I'll save the list for another day). I'm just hoping
>> Nuendo 4 rocks on the Mac, so at least I have a backup. (I still think
> it
>> sucks that with Macs I have to buy average hardware at premium prices when
> I
>> could build a much more robust, higher end DAW for 20-30% less).
>>
>> Oh, btw - in that link Aleksey talks about fixing a /3GB switch bug - that
>> was yours truly that found that bug (cool of Aleksey to fix it so quickly;
>> not so cool of MS to make Vista the next stop in the roadmap to 64 bit and
>> where we would have no more need for it).
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dedric
>>
>> On 9/7/07 10:40 AM, in article 46e17f14$1@linux, "James McCloskey"
>> <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>> I read the article a while back, and I think there are multiple sides
> to
>>>> this:
>>>>
>>>> 1 - Vista isn't great for low latency audio. WaveRT is still, afaik,
> just
>>> a
>>>> marketing feature, not proven in reality for pro audio.
>>>>
>>>> 2 - Cakewalk has staked their marketing on 64-bit in order to attempt
> to
>>>> separate themselves from the market. Reality is (or so it seems from
> tests
>>>> I've seen), there is little advantage for the audio engine, and for the
>>> OS,
>>>> memory access is the main advantage. 64-bit apps in a 64-bit OS can
> gain
>>>> some performance gains, but so far that appears to be minimal).
>>>>
>>>> 3 - Apple hasn't really worked for, or to the advantage of DAW/audio
>>>> developers, except their own (Final Cut Pro and iTunes/QT/iLife being
> their
>>>> main interests here, with Logic running a distant 5th, or 10th). Core
> audio
>>>> is likely a 30% technical decision (easier to implement than someone
> else's
>>>> protocol), and 70% product control - what you develop yourself, you can
>>>> market, control and use to differentiate your product. ASIO is perfectly
>>>> fast, and stable on WinXP, but it's Steinberg's protocol, not Apple's.
>>> For
>>>> example, direct monitoring still isn't supported by most hardware or
>>>> software for OSX, and was questionable for core audio (whether this has
>>> been
>>>> slow to develop, or slow to release the SDK for, I don't know) - even
> Logic
>>>> doesn't have it. Apple just isn't interested in supporting 3rd party
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Paris Perspective: [message #87928 is a reply to message #87925] |
Tue, 10 July 2007 23:58 |
Kim
Messages: 1246
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
;> audio hooks (WaveRT).. RME stated thay would stay with ASIO, and Not
> Adopt
>>>>> the Vista standard..
>>>>>
>>>>> OK. Rant:
>>>>> When Apple completly re-coded their OS witha NEW Audio engine standard
>>>>> AUDIO-Units.
>>>>> At that time, ASIO, WMD & MAS where the NAtive standards, but Apple
> went
>>>>> their own way. So what did the Developers do...They started coding their
>>>>> apps, plugins, audio interfaces with Auduo-Unit drivers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, that Microsoft is proposing the same thing, these very same companies
>>>>> are balking. Why? Even with Lower latency and less pull on the CPU,like
>>>>> Apple's
>>>>> Audio Unit design, their balking.
>>>>>
>>>>> Next point:
>>>>> To all of those who state the only useful purpose for 64 bit is to break
>>>>> the 4 gig memory limitation (for Samplers) in Bull!
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem is that the DAWS are all using 32 bit coding. #2 bit apps
>>> on
>>>>> a 64 bit os and processor will only get you marginal gains...But, A
> True
>>>>> 64 DAW/App using a 64 bit CPU,64 bit plugins
>>>>> we we see astouding gains in performance.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll stop now. But, we need to let the manufacturers know (what they
> already
>>>>> know) and that is the Windows train is moving and even if Vista is not
>>> the
>>>>> OS, the Next version will be the right one and it will be 64 bit.. Companies
>>>>> like RME & Steinbergs will get left behind if they don't start moving
>>> in
>>>>> that 64 bit direction).
>>>>>
>>>>> To may of us have Pre-Invested in 64 bit CPUs with the promise of 64
> bit
>>>>> processing. Apple will be there soon with OS-x 64 with a newly re-wriiten
>>>>> version of Logic (64 bit). Digi and Motu will be on the 64 bit train
> as
>>>>> well..Chooo
>>>>> chooooc choo...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>Hey Thad - Lamont answered this as well. From general perspectives, no we
don't need a specialized DAW, but as Lamont said, it's when you run against
the wall of the OS and hardware's capabilities (memory, PCI buss, etc) on a
daily basis, then it is an issue. In addition, the main concern is the cost
of having to switch between working solutions (not necessarily DAWs, or
platforms), but plugins or periphery apps, transer workflow, etc because
another piece of software fell prey to a change in an OS, and is either dead
or delayed. Weeks and certainly months of delay in the software development
world can equate to dollars and clients in the production world.
For sure the level of capability we have with Macs and PCs today is, in a
broader perspective, stunning (48 tracks of tape would have broken my budget
on some projects years ago), but the requirements of the job don't sit back
and let us enjoy it for very long... ;-)
I just loaded up a single voiceover and setup 4 instances of Nebula last
week, and a Nebula reverb (that blows away Wizoo W2 and UAD-1 plate) and it
sucked down 50% of my cpu - the problem wasn't that I don't have other
plugins that would load 100 instances, it's that this plugin sounds 100x
better than those and the track is nailed, with nary another track, much
less my full orchestral template required to complete the spot (yes, freeze
is my friend. :-).
Last night I tried to connect a simple (older Oxford 911 chipset) firewire
drive to my Vista laptop to run a little audio off of, and it locked up
Vista after a few minutes (apparently lost connection) - work planned for
this weekend will have to wait until I can get back to the studio - hours,
and even days lost on my schedule. I can't get a USB thumb drive that works
with Vista (tried 3, called Sandisk support - no luck). Fortunately I don't
use the Vista laptop for audio work, but it limits the laptop's usefulness
in carrying it to another studio for work, previews, transfers, etc.
Obviously, there is no simple alternative to the current crop of mainstream
OSs for my audio work, and in reality, OSX and XP probably don't limit us
all that much (other than a few areas here and there). Ubuntu looks cool,
but there is so much software and hardware involved that moving to a Linux
solution would really take a monumental leap to become realistic.
Regards,
Dedric
On 9/7/07 2:42 PM, in article 46e1b7c7$1@linux, "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Thad, you are talkign about 2 different market segments. The 'Bedroom" type
> who 48 tracks is more than enough..Then there are the power users like myself
> where are song tracking session can reach upwards to 90 plus (before editing)
> with power hungry plugins, and low latency for those running ITB.
>
> All in all, the power "Native" daw user does not want to go over to HD-TDM.
> They want it all(Power) natively. They wan t Pro Tools Power in Natively..
>
> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>> One question, Dedric. Why do we need an OS dedicated to audio/video
>> production?
>> XP or OS X + software + quality audio interface gives me a 48 track digital
>> studio in my living room. What's missing from that?
>>
>> Also, if you want to try it out Ubuntu Studio is actually shipping. I haven't
>> installed it but we just got 20 dual processor dual core Dell workstations
>> into my office and I just might try one of them with it for kicks . . .
>>
>> TCB
>>
>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>> James and Jamie,
>>>
>>> Well I'll reply to you and Jamie together to conserve electrons... ;-)
>>>
>>> I think you both missed my point, and assumed this was a slight against
>>> Apple. It wasn't.
>>>
>>> The thread was actually about Vista and the article in which few developers
>>> showed any enthusiasm for it, and in several cases almost outright
>>> rejection. I don't blame them. OS developers really don't, and sadly,
>>> can't put the interests of professional audio users at the forefront.
> Their
>>> first customers are consumers.
>>>
>>> Core audio is cool (great compared to other OS-embedded audio protocols,
>>> unless we bring BeOS back) and Apple seems to have done a respectable job
>> by
>>> including such core media hooks in the OS (core animation too). However,
>>> the point is how much a full time professional can or should really trust
>>> the performance of their DAW to a company that makes 10x selling phones,
>> or
>>> operating systems (Apple or MS). Of course that's a paradox - we have
> no
>>> choice.
>>>
>>> Truly Apple has made 100x the effort vs. MS in supporting the pro
>>> audio/video market (well, 100 x 0 would be 0, but you get the point ;-).
>>> The point was that it wasn't developed for Steinberg's best interests,
> or
>>> Digidesign's, or MOTU's (where is MAS?), but Apple's. Logic was the first
>>> to support OSX because it was an Apple product, Jamie. Does Apple really
>>> release full SDKs to 3rd parties when they start developing their apps
> for
>>> that new design, or do they wait until they release their app, then forward
>>> the SDKs... ;-)
>>>
>>> Just don't assume that because I include Apple in a general discussion
> that
>>> I'm bashing Macs. Let's also not poo poo Steinberg just because ASIO and
>>> VST weren't developed by Apple. They really did make native DAWs a reality
>>> (moreso than Emagic or MOTU if we look at the life of ASIO and VST vs.
> MAS
>>> or whatever Emagic's shortlived driver was called - I should remember...).
>>> Steinberg is far from perfect, but that doesn't make Apple the sudden
>>> defender of the pro audio world by default. ;-)
>>>
>>> If you are a Mac audio user (or PC user facing the sad reality that is
>>> Vista), fear the iPhone.... fear Garageband.... ;-)
>>>
>>> Ideally we really need an OS developed "for" audio/video alone, not home
>>> movies, not downloading mp3s, not posting pics of the family vacation.
>
>> But
>>> that opens up a whole other can of worms. I guess the worms we have are
>> as
>>> good as it gets, at least until they are all used up trying to catch bigger
>>> fish.
>>>
>>> James - I think your link supports my comment that Vista sucks (if Aleksey,
>>> who was never going to port to OSX, now is, things are looking grim for
>> MS
>>> and PC DAW users...). ;-)) (yes, I said it, and yes I believe it - it looks
>>> cool, but ... well I'll save the list for another day). I'm just hoping
>>> Nuendo 4 rocks on the Mac, so at least I have a backup. (I still think
>> it
>>> sucks that with Macs I have to buy average hardware at premium prices when
>> I
>>> could build a much more robust, higher end DAW for 20-30% less).
>>>
>>> Oh, btw - in that link Aleksey talks about fixing a /3GB switch bug - that
>>> was yours truly that found that bug (cool of Aleksey to fix it so quickly;
>>> not so cool of MS to make Vista the next stop in the roadmap to 64 bit
> and
>>> where we would have no more need for it).
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dedric
>>>
>>> On 9/7/07 10:40 AM, in article 46e17f14$1@linux, "James McCloskey"
>>> <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>>> I read the article a while back, and I think there are multiple sides
>> to
>>>>> this:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1 - Vista isn't great for low latency audio. WaveRT is still, afaik,
>> just
>>>> a
>>>>> marketing feature, not proven in reality for pro audio.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2 - Cakewalk has staked their marketing on 64-bit in order to attempt
>> to
>>>>> separate themselves from the market. Reality is (or so it seems from
>> tests
>>>>> I've seen), there is little advantage for the audio engine, and for
> the
>>>> OS,
>>>>> memory access is the main advantage. 64-bit apps in a 64-bit OS can
>> gain
>>>>> some performance gains, but so far that appears to be minimal).
>>>>>
>>>>> 3 - Apple hasn't really worked for, or to the advantage of DAW/audio
>>>>> developers, except their own (Final Cut Pro and iTunes/QT/iLife being
>> their
>>>>> main interests here, with Logic running a distant 5th, or 10th). Core
>> audio
>>>>> is likely a 30% technical decision (easier to implement than someone
>> else's
>>>>> protocol), and 70% product control - what you develop yourself, you
> can
>>>>> market, control and use to differentiate your product. ASIO is perfectly
>>>>> fast, and stable on WinXP, but it's Steinberg's protocol, not Apple's.
>>>> For
>>>>> example, direct monitoring still isn't supported by most hardware or
>>>>> software for OSX, and was questionable for core audio (whether this
> has
>>>> been
>>>>> slow to develop, or slow to release the SDK for, I don't know) - even
>> Logic
>>>>> doesn't have it. Apple just isn't interested in supporting 3rd party
>> audio
>>>>> applications or protocols for the Mac purely because they have a direct
>>>>> vested interest in their own, and in selling more Macs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Developers adopted AU and Core Audio because they had to in order to
>> survive
>>>>> - most of them already had Mac products they would simply lose if they
>>>>> didn't. Notice that some developers that didn't have Mac support, never
>>>>> moved to AU (Voxengo for one; Algorithmix, etc). It was a forced decision
>>>>> since VST, ASIO, etc had been dropped, just as Logic 5/PC was - if it
>>>>> doesn't make money for Apple, it is unceremoniously canned. With Vista,
>>>>> VST, ASIO, WDM all still work, so developers aren't buying Microsoft's
>> pitch
>>>>> to move to their own internal driver/protocol. I believe at least one
>> of
>>>>> the developers in that article expressed reservations over trusting
> their
>>>>> product to a protocol (WaveRT) that was held by an OS developer that
>> had
>>>> no
>>>>> direct interest in professional audio (sound familiar now? They've
> learned
>>>>> from the Apple experience, and past Microsoft experience - DirectX for
>> one).
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the moral of the story is that pro audio is best handled by
>>>>> developers in that market, not companies more interested in selling
>>>>> operating systems, home computers, and/or iToys.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Dedric
>>>>
>>>> Sometimes You guys kill me with your anti Mac/Apple opinions. When MS
>> goes
>>>> proprietary you guys call it a standard, and you accept it. If Apple
>> does
>>>> it, it's a problem. AU is a ground up rewrite of their audio software
>> system.
>>>> They did it to improve audio on Mac OS. I don't like that they dropped
>>>> VST support in some of their software, but you still have other choices
>> on
>>>> a Mac to use VSTs, including your favorites from Steinberg. Many new
>> plugin
>>>> development companies showed up because the new AU format created new
>>>> opportunities
>>>> for start ups. It's all good.
>>>>
>>>> By the way, read this: http://www.voxengo.com/press/114/
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/7/07 9:16 AM, in article 46e16b5e$1@linux, "LaMont"
>>>>> <jjdpro@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Okay fam, I just read a very interesting article in July's 07 SOS (Sound
>>>> On
>>>>>> Sound -What The Devlopers Think) about the state of MS Vista AND is
>> it
>>>> time
>>>>>> for (Them DAW manufactuers) to go 64 bit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, the article featured most of the heavey hitters in the industry
>>>> (RME,
>>>>>> M-Audio, Native Instruments, Steingberg, Cakewalk, Lynx .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as 64 bit in the DAW most , except Cakewalk, feels that it's
>> not
>>>>>> needed.
>>>>>> But, you get the feeling that they say this because of the work involved.
>>>>>> Secondly, They're not impreesed(except Cakewalk) with Microsoft's new
>>>> built-in
>>>>>> audio hooks (WaveRT).. RME stated thay would stay with ASIO, and Not
>> Adopt
>>>>>> the Vista standard..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK. Rant:
>>>>>> When Apple completly re-coded their OS witha NEW Audio engine standard
>>>>>> AUDIO-Units.
>>>>>> At that time, ASIO, WMD & MAS where the NAtive standards, but Apple
>> went
>>>>>> their own way. So what did the Developers do...They started coding
> their
>>>>>> apps, plugins, audio interfaces with Auduo-Unit drivers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, that Microsoft is proposing the same thing, these very same
>>>>>> companies
>>>>>> are balking. Why? Even with Lower latency and less pull on the CPU,like
>>>>>> Apple's
>>>>>> Audio Unit design, their balking.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Next point:
>>>>>> To all of those who state the only useful purpose for 64 bit is to
> break
>>>>>> the 4 gig memory limitation (for Samplers) in Bull!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The problem is that the DAWS are all using 32 bit coding. #2 bit apps
>>>> on
>>>>>> a 64 bit os and processor will only get you marginal gains...But, A
>> True
>>>>>> 64 DAW/App using a 64 bit CPU,64 bit plugins
>>>>>> we we see astouding gains in performance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll stop now. But, we need to let the manufacturers know (what they
>> already
>>>>>> know) and that is the Windows train is moving and even if Vista is
> not
>>>> the
>>>>>> OS, the Next version will be the right one and it will be 64 bit..
> Companies
>>>>>> like RME & Steinbergs will get left behind if they don't start moving
>>>> in
>>>>>> that 64 bit direction).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To may of us have Pre-Invested in 64 bit CPUs with the promise of 64
>> bit
>>>>>> processing. Apple will be there soon with OS-x 64 with a newly re-wriiten
>>>>>> version of Logic (64 bit). Digi and Motu will be on the 64 bit train
>> as
>>>>>> well..Chooo
>>>>>> chooooc choo...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>Hey Look! A client meeting!
DC
"DJ" <animix _ at _ animas _ dot _ net> wrote:
> http://www.3daudioinc.com/3db/attachment.php?attachmentid=70 1&d=1189183327
>
>"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote:
>I once had a client who I had co-produced who
>reneged on our deal threaten to take rough mixes to mastering when we refused
>to give him the final mixes. We finally caved just to keep the inferior
>mixes from getting released.
This is how you prevent that from ever happening (or, for that
matter, also prevent someone from being so happy with the
roughs that they don't want to come back for a final):
http://www.voxengo.com/product/beeper/
I used it recently on a commercial that had to be sent out for
approval prior to payment. Wrote right on the CD that it
was "beep-encoded" so there was no suprise or shock on the
client side when they heard two little beeps in their 30-second
spot.
NeilOn 9/7/07 2:42 PM, in article 46e1b9a1@linux, "Jamie K"
<Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>> and Apple seems to have done a respectable job by
>> including such core media hooks in the OS (core animation too). However,
>> the point is how much a full time professional can or should really trust
>> the performance of their DAW to a company that makes 10x selling phones, or
>> operating systems (Apple or MS). Of course that's a paradox - we have no
>> choice.
>
> Sure we do, just buy a different OSX DAW. There's more than just Logic
> on OSX, and Apple is not poisoning the market against other DAWS.
Actually I was referring to choice in terms of consumer/general OS vs.
audio-dedicated OS, without resorting to RADAR (which uses BeOS I believe),
Fairlight, etc.
>
> Ask MOTU. I think Apple has been very open with the developers, actually.
>
Check the Nuendo forum thread on direct monitoring support.
>> They really did make native DAWs a reality
>> (moreso than Emagic or MOTU if we look at the life of ASIO and VST vs. MAS
>> or whatever Emagic's shortlived driver was called - I should remember...).
>
> We should all remember a lot of things, like, uh, I forget... :^)
I'll try to remember that... ;-)
>
> What's cool is that the competition between Steinberg and Emagic
> produced a lot of progress, with great vision and tenacity in both
> companies. Add Native Instruments, MOTU, plus a few more = tons of good
> stuff that we benefit from now. I am very grateful for all of this.
>
For sure. I wasn't diminishing Emagic or MOTU's contribution - they just
made some proprietary decisions that helped ASIO and VST take the lead. All
three, and Cakewalk are innovators in the native DAW, audio and sequencer
market. My fear of the OS vs. audio developer is in watching all 4
companies have to jump roll and spin to keep up with OS development - we are
riding the tailwind of the OS, not dictating it for the most part. So far
Apple's development of core audio has been a step in the right direction,
but as Chris pointed out, it still lags ASIO in some ways and took a while
to get there.
>
>> If you are a Mac audio user (or PC user facing the sad reality that is
>> Vista), fear the iPhone.... fear Garageband.... ;-)
>
> I fear nothing. If Apple can continue to grow using a strategy built on
> supporting creative tools on the one hand and distribution/user tools on
> the other, that's a comprehensive vision, a flow from creation to market.
Really? You don't wonder, like a lot of other Logic users, if Logic 8 will
really become "Garageband Goes to the Studio"? ;-)) lol
I see your point, and it fits Apple's marketing, but remember, ultimately
Apple answers to the bottom line. While the creation to market idea is a
good one, it can also mean one or the other becomes, at some point, limited
by the fact that one company is defining what that means. There are a lot
of experienced disciplines involved with content creation using a wide range
of tools, and few of them work for Apple, and not all of them are using
Apple products (unless Apple is developing a new 4k HD cam, Dolby conversion
hardware, etc). ;-)
>
>
>> Ideally we really need an OS developed "for" audio/video alone, not home
>> movies, not downloading mp3s, not posting pics of the family vacation. But
>> that opens up a whole other can of worms. I guess the worms we have are as
>> good as it gets, at least until they are all used up trying to catch bigger
>> fish.
>
> I don't see how having a computer system that can play a movie makes it
> harder for that same system to make one. IOW, there's more synergy than
> distraction between those applications.
Playing movies alone doesn't, but when it is a product whose market is as
diverse as this country, you should be able to see the distraction from the
level of performance pro audio demands. So far Apple is keeping pace quite
well - it's probably safe to say FCP has been revolutionary for the video
market - the first NLE to truly quiet Avid rooms.
>
>
>> James - I think your link supports my comment that Vista sucks (if Aleksey,
>> who was never going to port to OSX, now is, things are looking grim for MS
>> and PC DAW users...). ;-)) (yes, I said it, and yes I believe it - it looks
>> cool, but ... well I'll save the list for another day). I'm just hoping
>> Nuendo 4 rocks on the Mac, so at least I have a backup. (I still think it
>> sucks that with Macs I have to buy average hardware at premium prices when I
>> could build a much more robust, higher end DAW for 20-30% less).
>
> Don't give up, Dedric. Don't switch. Apple needs competition and I don't
> want to quit using the Mac yet. So go to Linux if Vista gets completely
> unlivable, but PLEASE AVOID THE MAC!!!! The day you switch, prices will
> go up...
Oh don't worry. I'll only switch if it actually makes sense, and money for
my business. A benefit of looking at all sides equally is having the
ability see through cute marketing ads and fancy cases. ;-)
Regards,
Dedric
>
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
>
>> Oh, btw - in that link Aleksey talks about fixing a /3GB switch bug - that
>> was yours truly that found that bug (cool of Aleksey to fix it so quickly;
>> not so cool of MS to make Vista the next stop in the roadmap to 64 bit and
>> where we would have no more need for it).
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dedric
>>
>> On 9/7/07 10:40 AM, in article 46e17f14$1@linux, "James McCloskey"
>> <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>> I read the article a while back, and I think there are multiple sides to
>>>> this:
>>>>
>>>> 1 - Vista isn't great for low latency audio. WaveRT is still, afaik, just
>>> a
>>>> marketing feature, not proven in reality for pro audio.
>>>>
>>>> 2 - Cakewalk has staked their marketing on 64-bit in order to attempt to
>>>> separate themselves from the market. Reality is (or so it seems from tests
>>>> I've seen), there is little advantage for the audio engine, and for the
>>> OS,
>>>> memory access is the main advantage. 64-bit apps in a 64-bit OS can gain
>>>> some performance gains, but so far that appears to be minimal).
>>>>
>>>> 3 - Apple hasn't really worked for, or to the advantage of DAW/audio
>>>> developers, except their own (Final Cut Pro and iTunes/QT/iLife being their
>>>> main interests here, with Logic running a distant 5th, or 10th). Core
>>>> audio
>>>> is likely a 30% technical decision (easier to implement than someone else's
>>>> protocol), and 70% product control - what you develop yourself, you can
>>>> market, control and use to differentiate your product. ASIO is perfectly
>>>> fast, and stable on WinXP, but it's Steinberg's protocol, not Apple's.
>>> For
>>>> example, direct monitoring still isn't supported by most hardware or
>>>> software for OSX, and was questionable for core audio (whether this has
>>> been
>>>> slow to develop, or slow to release the SDK for, I don't know) - even Logic
>>>> doesn't have it. Apple just isn't interested in supporting 3rd party audio
>>>> applications or protocols for the Mac purely because they have a direct
>>>> vested interest in their own, and in selling more Macs.
>>>>
>>>> Developers adopted AU and Core Audio because they had to in order to
>>>> survive
>>>> - most of them already had Mac products they would simply lose if they
>>>> didn't. Notice that some developers that didn't have Mac support, never
>>>> moved to AU (Voxengo for one; Algorithmix, etc). It was a forced decision
>>>> since VST, ASIO, etc had been dropped, just as Logic 5/PC was - if it
>>>> doesn't make money for Apple, it is unceremoniously canned. With Vista,
>>>> VST, ASIO, WDM all still work, so developers aren't buying Microsoft's
>>>> pitch
>>>> to move to their own internal driver/protocol. I believe at least one of
>>>> the developers in that article expressed reservations over trusting their
>>>> product to a protocol (WaveRT) that was held by an OS developer that had
>>> no
>>>> direct interest in professional audio (sound familiar now? They've learned
>>>> from the Apple experience, and past Microsoft experience - DirectX for
>>>> one).
>>>>
>>>> I think the moral of the story is that pro audio is best handled by
>>>> developers in that market, not companies more interested in selling
>>>> operating systems, home computers, and/or iToys.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Dedric
>>> Sometimes You guys kill me with your anti Mac/Apple opinions. When MS goes
>>> proprietary you guys call it a standard, and you accept it. If Apple does
>>> it, it's a problem. AU is a ground up rewrite of their audio software
>>> system.
>>> They did it to improve audio on Mac OS. I don't like that they dropped
>>> VST support in some of their software, but you still have other choices on
>>> a Mac to use VSTs, including your favorites from Steinberg. Many new plugin
>>> development companies showed up because the new AU format created new
>>> opportunities
>>> for start ups. It's all good.
>>>
>>> By the way, read this: http://www.voxengo.com/press/114/
>>>
>>>> On 9/7/07 9:16 AM, in article 46e16b5e$1@linux, "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Okay fam, I just read a very interesting article in July's 07 SOS (Sound
>>> On
>>>>> Sound -What The Devlopers Think) about the state of MS Vista AND is it
>>> time
>>>>> for (Them DAW manufactuers) to go 64 bit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, the article featured most of the heavey hitters in the industry
>>> (RME,
>>>>> M-Audio, Native Instruments, Steingberg, Cakewalk, Lynx .
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as 64 bit in the DAW most , except Cakewalk, feels that it's not
>>>>> needed.
>>>>> But, you get the feeling that they say this because of the work involved.
>>>>> Secondly, They're not impreesed(except Cakewalk) with Microsoft's new
>>> built-in
>>>>> audio hooks (WaveRT).. RME stated thay would stay with ASIO, and Not Adopt
>>>>> the Vista standard..
>>>>>
>>>>> OK. Rant:
>>>>> When Apple completly re-coded their OS witha NEW Audio engine standard
>>>>> AUDIO-Units.
>>>>> At that time, ASIO, WMD & MAS where the NAtive standards, but Apple went
>>>>> their own way. So what did the Developers do...They started coding their
>>>>> apps, plugins, audio interfaces with Auduo-Unit drivers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, that Microsoft is proposing the same thing, these very same companies
>>>>> are balking. Why? Even with Lower latency and less pull on the CPU,like
>>>>> Apple's
>>>>> Audio Unit design, their balking.
>>>>>
>>>>> Next point:
>>>>> To all of those who state the only useful purpose for 64 bit is to break
>>>>> the 4 gig memory limitation (for Samplers) in Bull!
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem is that the DAWS are all using 32 bit coding. #2 bit apps
>>> on
>>>>> a 64 bit os and processor will only get you marginal gains...But, A True
>>>>> 64 DAW/App using a 64 bit CPU,64 bit plugins
>>>>> we we see astouding gains in performance.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll stop now. But, we need to let the manufacturers know (what they
>>>>> already
>>>>> know) and that is the Windows train is moving and even if Vista is not
>>> the
>>>>> OS, the Next version will be the right one and it will be 64 bit..
>>>>> Companies
>>>>> like RME & Steinbergs will get left behind if they don't start moving
>>> in
>>>>> that 64 bit direction).
>>>>>
>>>>> To may of us have Pre-Invested in 64 bit CPUs with the promise of 64 bit
>>>>> processing. Apple will be there soon with OS-x 64 with a newly re-wriiten
>>>>> version of Logic (64 bit). Digi and Motu will be on the 64 bit train as
>>>>> well..Chooo
>>>>> chooooc choo...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>OK, forgive me for being dense here, guys. Let's put aside the question of
whether audio and video need the same things, which is a damn good sized
set aside but let's do it. How would a 'dedicated audio and video production
OS' solve any of this? What you're saying is that you need more CPU bandwidth,
faster memory, etc. and so forth. You're not going to get a whole lot more
out of the underlying computer hardware than you get out of XP. Really, the
OS overhead under XP is surprisingly small. Maybe not as small as the most
efficient OS, but damn close.
Again, the question is not whether high end users need more computing power
but whether they need a 'dedicated audio and video production OS.'
TCB
Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>Hey Thad - Lamont answered this as well. From general perspectives, no
we
>don't need a specialized DAW, but as Lamont said, it's when you run against
>the wall of the OS and hardware's capabilities (memory, PCI buss, etc) on
a
>daily basis, then it is an issue. In addition, the main concern is the
cost
>of having to switch between working solutions (not necessarily DAWs, or
>platforms), but plugins or periphery apps, transer workflow, etc because
>another piece of software fell prey to a change in an OS, and is either
dead
>or delayed. Weeks and certainly months of delay in the software development
>world can equate to dollars and clients in the production world.
>
>For sure the level of capability we have with Macs and PCs today is, in
a
>broader perspective, stunning (48 tracks of tape would have broken my budget
>on some projects years ago), but the requirements of the job don't sit back
>and let us enjoy it for very long... ;-)
>
>I just loaded up a single voiceover and setup 4 instances of Nebula last
>week, and a Nebula reverb (that blows away Wizoo W2 and UAD-1 plate) and
it
>sucked down 50% of my cpu - the problem wasn't that I don't have other
>plugins that would load 100 instances, it's that this plugin sounds 100x
>better than those and the track is nailed, with nary another track, much
>less my full orchestral template required to complete the spot (yes, freeze
>is my friend. :-).
>
>Last night I tried to connect a simple (older Oxford 911 chipset) firewire
>drive to my Vista laptop to run a little audio off of, and it locked up
>Vista after a few minutes (apparently lost connection) - work planned for
>this week
|
|
|
|
| Re: Paris Perspective: [message #87930 is a reply to message #87909] |
Wed, 11 July 2007 01:16 |
erlilo
Messages: 405
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
r />
>>
>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> One question, Dedric. Why do we need an OS dedicated to audio/video
>>> production?
>>> XP or OS X + software + quality audio interface gives me a 48 track digital
>>> studio in my living room. What's missing from that?
>>>
>>> Also, if you want to try it out Ubuntu Studio is actually shipping. I
haven't
>>> installed it but we just got 20 dual processor dual core Dell workstations
>>> into my office and I just might try one of them with it for kicks . .Mama's got a squeeze-box.
S
"Rob Arsenault" <mani1147athotmaildotcom> wrote in message
news:46e15789$1@linux...
> Thanks Sarah, actually, it is my understanding that for it to be Cajun, it
> would need a squeaky old squeeze-box in there...!!!
>
>
> "Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote in message
> news:46e10803$1@linux...
>> Wow, sounds great. And those guys are hot. But if it's bluegrass in
>> French doesn't that make it Cajun? :)
>>
>> S
>>
>>
>> "Rob Arsenault" <mani2 at nbnet dot nb.ca> wrote in message
>> news:46e0b6bd@linux...
>>> Hi guys and gals, here is cut off my latest project, bluegrass in
>>> French.
>>> Artist by the name of Paul Hebert out of eastern Canada.
>>>
>>> Tracked and Mixed entirely in Paris.
>>>
>>> http://www.studiomanitou.com/mp3demo/BonjourBonheur.mp3
>>>
>>> Rob
>>>
>>
>>
>
>"Nebula reverb (that blows away Wizoo W2 and UAD-1 plate)" ...
WOW!! W2 and IK Classics verbs are my go to verbs, even over Alti verb..Nubula
you say..??
I played with free demo last winter and it was buggy, slow on my Dual-core
Opteron PC. I'll have to them another shot.. Thanks
Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>Hey Thad - Lamont answered this as well. From general perspectives, no
we
>don't need a specialized DAW, but as Lamont said, it's when you run against
>the wall of the OS and hardware's capabilities (memory, PCI buss, etc) on
a
>daily basis, then it is an issue. In addition, the main concern is the
cost
>of having to switch between working solutions (not necessarily DAWs, or
>platforms), but plugins or periphery apps, transer workflow, etc because
>another piece of software fell prey to a change in an OS, and is either
dead
>or delayed. Weeks and certainly months of delay in the software development
>world can equate to dollars and clients in the production world.
>
>For sure the level of capability we have with Macs and PCs today is, in
a
>broader perspective, stunning (48 tracks of tape would have broken my budget
>on some projects years ago), but the requirements of the job don't sit back
>and let us enjoy it for very long... ;-)
>
>I just loaded up a single voiceover and setup 4 instances of Nebula last
>week, and a Nebula reverb (that blows away Wizoo W2 and UAD-1 plate) and
it
>sucked down 50% of my cpu - the problem wasn't that I don't have other
>plugins that would load 100 instances, it's that this plugin sounds 100x
>better than those and the track is nailed, with nary another track, much
>less my full orchestral template required to complete the spot (yes, freeze
>is my friend. :-).
>
>Last night I tried to connect a simple (older Oxford 911 chipset) firewire
>drive to my Vista laptop to run a little audio off of, and it locked up
>Vista after a f
|
|
|
|
| Re: Paris Perspective: [message #87942 is a reply to message #87923] |
Wed, 11 July 2007 11:00 |
Wayne Carson
Messages: 86
Registered: June 2007
|
Member |
|
|
xcept their own (Final Cut Pro and iTunes/QT/iLife being
>>their
>>>>> main interests here, with Logic running a distant 5th, or 10th). Core
>>audio
>>>>> is likely a 30% technical decision (easier to implement than someone
>>else's
>>>>> protocol), and 70% product control - what you develop yourself, you
>can
>>>>> market, control and use to differentiate your product. ASIO is perfectly
>>>>> fast, and stable on WinXP, but it's Steinberg's protocol, not Apple's.
>>>> For
>>>>> example, direct monitoring still isn't supported by most hardware or
>>>>> software for OSX, and was questionable for core audio (whether this
>has
>>>> been
>>>>> slow to develop, or slow to release the SDK for, I don't know) - even
>>Logic
>>>>> doesn't have it. Apple just isn't interested in supporting 3rd party
>>audio
>>>>> applications or protocols for the Mac purely because they have a direct
>>>>> vested interest in their own, and in selling more Macs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Developers adopted AU and Core Audio because they had to in order to
>>survive
>>>>> - most of them already had Mac products they would simply lose if they
>>>>> didn't. Notice that some developers that didn't have Mac support,
never
>>>>> moved to AU (Voxengo for one; Algorithmix, etc). It was a forced decision
>>>>> since VST, ASIO, etc had been dropped, just as Logic 5/PC was - if
it
>>>>> doesn't make money for Apple, it is unceremoniously canned. With Vista,
>>>>> VST, ASIO, WDM all still work, so developers aren't buying Microsoft's
>>pitch
>>>>> to move to their own internal driver/protocol. I believe at least
one
>>of
>>>>> the developers in that article expressed reservations over trusting
>their
>>>>> product to a protocol (WaveRT) that was held by an OS developer that
>>had
>>>> no
>>>>> direct interest in professional audio (sound familiar now? They've
>learned
>>>>> from the Apple experience, and past Microsoft experience - DirectX
for
>>one).
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the moral of the story is that pro audio is best handled by
>>>>> developers in that market, not companies more interested in selling
>>>>> operating systems, home computers, and/or iToys.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Dedric
>>>>
>>>> Sometimes You guys kill me with your anti Mac/Apple opinions. When
MS
>>goes
>>>> proprietary you guys call it a standard, and you accept it. If Apple
>>does
>>>> it, it's a problem. AU is a ground up rewrite of their audio software
>>system.
>>>> They did it to improve audio on Mac OS. I don't like that they dropped
>>>> VST support in some of their software, but you still have other choices
>>on
>>>> a Mac to use VSTs, including your favorites from Steinberg. Many new
>>plugin
>>>> development companies showed up because the new AU format created new
>>>> opportunities
>>>> for start ups. It's all good.
>>>>
>>>> By the way, read this: http://www.voxengo.com/press/114/
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/7/07 9:16 AM, in article 46e16b5e$1@linux, "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Okay fam, I just read a very interesting article in July's 07 SOS
(Sound
>>>> On
>>>>>> Sound -What The Devlopers Think) about the state of MS Vista AND is
>>it
>>>> time
>>>>>> for (Them DAW manufactuers) to go 64 bit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, the article featured most of the heavey hitters in the industry
>>>> (RME,
>>>>>> M-Audio, Native Instruments, Steingberg, Cakewalk, Lynx .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as 64 bit in the DAW most , except Cakewalk, feels that it's
>>not
>>>>>> needed.
>>>>>> But, you get the feeling that they say this because of the work involved.
>>>>>> Secondly, They're not impreesed(except Cakewalk) with Microsoft's
new
>>>> built-in
>>>>>> audio hooks (WaveRT).. RME stated thay would stay with ASIO, and Not
>>Adopt
>>>>>> the Vista standard..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK. Rant:
>>>>>> When Apple completly re-coded their OS witha NEW Audio engine standard
>>>>>> AUDIO-Units.
>>>>>> At that time, ASIO, WMD & MAS where the NAtive standards, but Apple
>>went
>>>>>> their own way. So what did the Developers do...They started coding
>their
>>>>>> apps, plugins, audio interfaces with Auduo-Unit drivers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, that Microsoft is proposing the same thing, these very same companies
>>>>>> are balking. Why? Even with Lower latency and less pull on the CPU,like
>>>>>> Apple's
>>>>>> Audio Unit design, their balking.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Next point:
>>>>>> To all of those who state the only useful purpose for 64 bit is to
>break
>>>>>> the 4 gig memory limitation (for Samplers) in Bull!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The problem is that the DAWS are all using 32 bit coding. #2 bit
apps
>>>> on
>>>>>> a 64 bit os and processor will only get you marginal gains...But,
A
>>True
>>>>>> 64 DAW/App using a 64 bit CPU,64 bit plugins
>>>>>> we we see astouding gains in performance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll stop now. But, we need to let the manufacturers know (what they
>>already
>>>>>> know) and that is the Windows train is moving and even if Vista is
>not
>>>> the
>>>>>> OS, the Next version will be the right one and it will be 64 bit..
>Companies
>>>>>> like RME & Steinbergs will get left behind if they don't start moving
>>>> in
>>>>>> that 64 bit direction).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To may of us have Pre-Invested in 64 bit CPUs with the promise of
64
>>bit
>>>>>> processing. Apple will be there soon with OS-x 64 with a newly re-wriiten
>>>>>> version of Logic (64 bit). Digi and Motu will be on the 64 bit train
>>as
>>>>>> well..Chooo
>>>>>> chooooc choo...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Nebula reverb (that blows away Wizoo W2 and UAD-1 plate)" ...
>
>WOW!! W2 and IK Classics verbs are my go to verbs, even over Alti verb..Nubula
>you say..??
>
>I played with free demo last winter and it was buggy, slow on my Dual-core
>Opteron PC. I'll have to them another shot.. Thanks
I couldn't even get it to work. It just sat there staring at me
& taking up about 20% of my CPU cycles. It was like a cycle-
sucking parasite, feeding off my PC and doing it no good in the
process lol
It didn't make anything lock up, or anything like that, it just
didn't do anything.
NeilThe free version kind of worked here, but it was a bit like - "well here's
the idea, and once it works, you'll have a better idea of what the idea is".
;-)
The commercial version does work. It is a cpu killer, and doesn't feel
fluid (editing parameters is sluggish and inaccurate), but some of the
presets really do sound excellent - some sound like the hardware they
emulate (there are Mackie EQs and pres... not sure why).
It also depends on what you need - I do love Wizoo verbs for spaces, but
some of Nebula's are deeper and in reality, Lexicon emulations, so apples
and oranges. Nebula has a U-140 plate that does sound deeper and smoother
than my UAD-1 Plate 140, but it also runs stereo even from mono inserts or
sends, which helps.
Dedric
On 9/7/07 3:52 PM, in article 46e1c824$1@linux, "Neil" <IOUOI@OIU.com>
wrote:
>
> "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> "Nebula reverb (that blows away Wizoo W2 and UAD-1 plate)" ...
>>
>> WOW!! W2 and IK Classics verbs are my go to verbs, even over Alti
>> verb..Nubula
>> you say..??
>>
>> I played with free demo last winter and it was buggy, slow on my Dual-core
>> Opteron PC. I'll have to them another shot.. Thanks
>
> I couldn't even get it to work. It just sat there staring at me
> & taking up about 20% of my CPU cycles. It was like a cycle-
> sucking parasite, feeding off my PC and doing it no good in the
> process lol
>
> It didn't make anything lock up, or anything like that, it just
> didn't do anything.
>
> NeilGood points Thad,
I guess the point of view(s)from the so called "High-End" is that we've been
sold some hardware updates with the promise of vastly superior perfomance
results.
We've been told we just wait until we get an 64 bit OS to go along with yur
new 64 bit cpu and those new video cards. Then , you guys will have vastly
superior performance greater than TDM.
Well, again, we've been dupped,hood winked.. Bamboozeled :)
Truth is : The average Native Power DAW user has spent the equivlent to an
Pro Tools HD setup. AND, the funny thing is, this kind of user will keep
on chasing that elussive "Native" faster Than Pro Tools Rig" not realizing
that he or she has spent "WAY" more say over 15k in a native solution.
That's the frustration: And as James M has stated onm any occasions, they(DAW
manufacturing companies) only really care about is the Bed Room user. with
products 8 & 2 channels channels at a time with chessy at best on board
pre-amps.
Suprisingly: The Computer makers (DELL, Apple, HP, Gateway, etc) have been
great to our community. Today we can purchase a very fast dual-core intel/AMD
for $500.00 bucks...then add a nother drive $100.00 bucks or less..instant
DAW..
Another source of frustration fro th eso called high-end, is again the hype
aroudn so called hardware devices that's supposed to free up cpu resources.ie.
UAD.. To this day I have purchased a single UAD Card due te fact that it
does not free up any resources , but rather adds overhead. Read: Big Dongle.
As well as the Tc-powercore..
God Bless Steigberg Cakewalk ,& Samplitude for re-writting their code from
scratch to take advantage of the Win 2000/XP platform. With their wrok,
native DAW work would still be in the slow, third world midi-based land of
Emagic and MOtu..
So, whatdo we do..Do we continue to invest in Native rigs like BrianT(4-dual
core ) Opterons(Do the Math).. Scary.. Now, do you realize that a Pro Tools
HD 1accel cost under 5k..Another 16 hundred for i/o..Boom your into no excuse
land. HD2 accel..street with 192 I/O around $9600.00.. 128 tracks..with
rediculous amount of plugin power..End of story..
Oh yeah. You can run the above protool rigs on an G4-500-700,800.?????
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>Well, LaMont, I'll go back to my tried and true response. Native users really
>want the power of [Pro Tools HD/SSL 9k/fill in blank] natively. Well, I
really
>want to bang Scarlett Johansson but all the wanting it in the world won't
>make it so.
>
>Don't take this too personally but I get a little sick of the 'power users'
>simultaneously turning their noses up at the 'bedroom studio' market segment
>while at the same time wanting everything in native land to be cheap, super
>powerful, and easy to use. If the crap that us 'bedroom' guys use can't
get
>it done, well since you're so power user go off and spend a few million
on
>a Neve desk and a boatload of fancy hardware. Good on ya. It also hacks
me
>off that the 'bedroom studio' computer geeks like me spent nearly a decade
>getting our noses bloody and doing the ditch digging to help get nativeland
>working only to be told that we don't know what the hell we're talking about.
>
>
>Just sayin'
>
>TCB
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Thad, you are talkign about 2 different market segments. The 'Bedroom"
type
>>who 48 tracks is more than enough..Then there are the power users like
myself
>>where are song tracking session can reach upwards to 90 plus (before editing)
>>with power hungry plugins, and low latency for those running ITB.
>>
>>All in all, the power "Native" daw user does not want to go over to HD-TDM.
>>They want it all(Power) natively. They wan t Pro Tools Power in Natively..
>>
>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>One question, Dedric. Why do we need an OS dedicated to audio/video production?
>>>XP or OS X + software + quality audio interface gives me a 48 track digital
>>>studio in my living room. What's missing from that?
>>>
>>>Also, if you want to try it out Ubuntu Studio is actually shipping. I
haven't
>>>installed it but we just got 20 dual processor dual core Dell workstations
>>>into my office and I just might try one of them with it for kicks . .I'm excited to have 48 tracks here, soon, but:
I get the dreaded 1/1 error. I've checked all my connections.
3 EDS cards in a Magma chassis, plugged to the interface which
is in the bottom PCI slot of my new Athlon 64. MEC connected
diretly to the master EDS card.
I noticed that my PC gave each EDS card its own IRQ. Does IRQ
even matter anymore on these newer machines? It seems like
there is plenty to go around.
Any ideas are welcome. Thanks!!
ChrisIn real world use, XP and OSX are fine, and maybe there wouldn't be much to
gain from a dedicated system beyond enhanced stability or just consistency
perhaps (thought that isn't really an issue on my XP systems), but my
thinking is drivers could be tighter and general media streaming wouldn't be
subject to normal OS interaction, but I could be wrong.
I guess your last question really depends on the reality of what would or
wouldn't be gained by a dedicated OS. Hard to say, but as long as we work
with commercial OSs that are geared towards a wide range of uses, it is
clear that we will always wonder what we might be missing. Along these
lines though, I think it's only fair that we question the efficiency of
hardware that is based on a 30 year old legacy model (IRQs, etc).
Dedric
On 9/7/07 3:34 PM, in article 46e1c3d7$1@linux, "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com>
wrote:
>
> OK, forgive me for being dense here, guys. Let's put aside the question of
> whether audio and video need the same things, which is a damn good sized
> set aside but let's do it. How would a 'dedicated audio and video production
> OS' solve any of this? What you're saying is that you need more CPU bandwidth,
> faster memory, etc. and so forth. You're not going to get a whole lot more
> out of the underlying computer hardware than you get out of XP. Really, the
> OS overhead under XP is surprisingly small. Maybe not as small as the most
> efficient OS, but damn close.
>
> Again, the question is not whether high end users need more computing power
> but whether they need a 'dedicated audio and video production OS.'
>
> TCB
>
> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>> Hey Thad - Lamont answered this as well. From general perspectives, no
> we
>> don't need a specialized DAW, but as Lamont said, it's when you run against
>> the wall of the OS and hardware's capabilities (memory, PCI buss, etc) on
> a
>> daily basis, then it is an issue. In addition, the main concern is the
> cost
>> of having to switch between working solutions (not necessarily DAWs, or
>> platforms), but plugins or periphery apps, transer workflow, etc because
>> another piece of software fell prey to a change in an OS, and is either
> dead
>> or delayed. Weeks and certainly months of delay in the software development
>> world can equate to dollars and clients in the production world.
>>
>> For sure the level of capability we have with Macs and PCs today is, in
> a
>> broader perspective, stunning (48 tracks of tape would have broken my budget
>> on some projects years ago), but the requirements of the job don't sit back
>> and let us enjoy it for very long... ;-)
>>
>> I just loaded up a single voiceover and setup 4 instances of Nebula last
>> week, and a Nebula reverb (that blows away Wizoo W2 and UAD-1 plate) and
> it
>> sucked down 50% of my cpu - the problem wasn't that I don't have other
>> plugins that would load 100 instances, it's that this plugin sounds 100x
>> better than those and the track is nailed, with nary another track, much
>> less my full orchestral template required to complete the spot (yes, freeze
>> is my friend. :-).
>>
>> Last night I tried to connect a simple (older Oxford 911 chipset) firewire
>> drive to my Vista laptop to run a little audio off of, and it locked up
>> Vista after a few minutes (apparently lost connection) - work planned for
>> this weekend will have to wait until I can get back to the studio - hours,
>> and even days lost on my schedule. I can't get a USB thumb drive that works
>> with Vista (tried 3, called Sandisk support - no luck). Fortunately I don't
>> use the Vista laptop for audio work, but it limits the laptop's usefulness
>> in carrying it to another studio for work, previews, transfers, etc.
>>
>> Obviously, there is no simple alternative to the current crop of mainstream
>> OSs for my audio work, and in reality, OSX and XP probably don't limit us
>> all that much (other than a few areas here and there). Ubuntu looks cool,
>> but there is so much software and hardware involved that moving to a Linux
>> solution would really take a monumental leap to become realistic.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dedric
>>
>> On 9/7/07 2:42 PM, in article 46e1b7c7$1@linux, "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Thad, you are talkign about 2 different market segments. The 'Bedroom"
> type
>>> who 48 tracks is more than enough..Then there are the power users like
> myself
>>> where are song tracking session can reach upwards to 90 plus (before
>>> editing)
>>> with power hungry plugins, and low latency for those running ITB.
>>>
>>> All in all, the power "Native" daw user does not want to go over to HD-TDM.
>>> They want it all(Power) natively. They wan t Pro Tools Power in Natively..
>>>
>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> One question, Dedric. Why do we need an OS dedicated to audio/video
>>>> production?
>>>> XP or OS X + software + quality audio interface gives me a 48 track digital
>>>> studio in my living room. What's missing from that?
>>>>
>>>> Also, if you want to try it out Ubuntu Studio is actually shipping. I
> haven't
>>>> installed it but we just got 20 dual processor dual core Dell workstations
>>>> into my office and I just might try one of them with it for kicks . .Lamont - you might want to add up the equivalent plugin counts on a HD accel
card and compare it to, for example, a UAD-1. The cost is more than double
per plugin compared to a UAD-1, with PCs and all hardware factored
in/balanced off. So, who's hoodwinking who? ;-)
Digi has no interest in preventing you from spending too much money. Just
compare the cost of a TDM plugin to a native version - same plugin - Waves,
UAD, etc. Then add not only the cost of an Accel card, I/O, but also the
computer, peripherals, conversion add ons that aren't included in PT, etc.
When doing price comparisons I've never spec'd a PT rig under about $12k
that equaled what I do with my $1700 Core 2, RME interfaces and Nuendo.
If you are tracking 40+ live tracks, then yes, native's latency may become a
disadvantage depending on what you need to monitor. A PT rig will give you
near zero latency monitoring, but much the same can be done with RME
totalmix, Cuemix etc, though not as elegantly for sure.
However, for production, scoring, editing, sound design, and many mixing
scenarios, etc - it's hard to justify the extra cost for PT HD per plugin,
or per track. It is significantly higher than native, easily.
Btw - you should check out the track count mix Brian posted on the Nuendo
forum recently
( http://forum.nuendo.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=13740&pos tdays=0&postorder=a
sc&start=300).
I really doubt you could come close to matching it with PTHD for the cost.
Regards,
Dedric
On 9/7/07 4:59 PM, in article 46e1d7ca$1@linux, "LaMont"
<jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
> Good points Thad,
>
> I guess the point of view(s)from the so called "High-End" is that we've been
> sold some hardware updates with the promise of vastly superior perfomance
> results.
>
> We've been told we just wait until we get an 64 bit OS to go along with yur
> new 64 bit cpu and those new video cards. Then , you guys will have vastly
> superior performance greater than TDM.
>
> Well, again, we've been dupped,hood winked.. Bamboozeled :)
>
> Truth is : The average Native Power DAW user has spent the equivlent to an
> Pro Tools HD setup. AND, the funny thing is, this kind of user will keep
> on chasing that elussive "Native" faster Than Pro Tools Rig" not realizing
> that he or she has spent "WAY" more say over 15k in a native solution.
>
> That's the frustration: And as James M has stated onm any occasions, they(DAW
> manufacturing companies) only really care about is the Bed Room user. with
> products 8 & 2 channels channels at a time with chessy at best on board
> pre-amps.
>
> Suprisingly: The Computer makers (DELL, Apple, HP, Gateway, etc) have been
> great to our community. Today we can purchase a very fast dual-core intel/AMD
> for $500.00 bucks...then add a nother drive $100.00 bucks or less..instant
> DAW..
>
> Another source of frustration fro th eso called high-end, is again the hype
> aroudn so called hardware devices that's supposed to free up cpu resources.ie.
> UAD.. To this day I have purchased a single UAD Card due te fact that it
> does not free up any resources , but rather adds overhead. Read: Big Dongle.
> As well as the Tc-powercore..
>
> God Bless Steigberg Cakewalk ,& Samplitude for re-writting their code from
> scratch to take advantage of the Win 2000/XP platform. With their wrok,
> native DAW work would still be in the slow, third world midi-based land of
> Emagic and MOtu..
>
> So, whatdo we do..Do we continue to invest in Native rigs like BrianT(4-dual
> core ) Opterons(Do the Math).. Scary.. Now, do you realize that a Pro Tools
> HD 1accel cost under 5k..Another 16 hundred for i/o..Boom your into no excuse
> land. HD2 accel..street with 192 I/O around $9600.00.. 128 tracks..with
> rediculous amount of plugin power..End of story..
>
> Oh yeah. You can run the above protool rigs on an G4-500-700,800.?????
>
>
> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>> Well, LaMont, I'll go back to my tried and true response. Native users really
>> want the power of [Pro Tools HD/SSL 9k/fill in blank] natively. Well, I
> really
>> want to bang Scarlett Johansson but all the wanting it in the world won't
>> make it so.
>>
>> Don't take this too personally but I get a little sick of the 'power users'
>> simultaneously turning their noses up at the 'bedroom studio' market segment
>> while at the same time wanting everything in native land to be cheap, super
>> powerful, and easy to use. If the crap that us 'bedroom' guys use can't
> get
>> it done, well since you're so power user go off and spend a few million
> on
>> a Neve desk and a boatload of fancy hardware. Good on ya. It also hacks
> me
>> off that the 'bedroom studio' computer geeks like me spent nearly a decade
>> getting our noses bloody and doing the ditch digging to help get nativeland
>> working only to be told that we don't know what the hell we're talking about.
>>
>>
>> Just sayin'
>>
>> TCB
>>
>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thad, you are talkign about 2 different market segments. The 'Bedroom"
> type
>>> who 48 tracks is more than enough..Then there are the power users like
> myself
>>> where are song tracking session can reach upwards to 90 plus (before
>>> editing)
>>> with power hungry plugins, and low latency for those running ITB.
>>>
>>> All in all, the power "Native" daw user does not want to go over to HD-TDM.
>>> They want it all(Power) natively. They wan t Pro Tools Power in Natively..
>>>
>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> One question, Dedric. Why do we need an OS dedicated to audio/video
>>>> production?
>>>> XP or OS X + software + quality audio interface gives me a 48 track digital
>>>> studio in my living room. What's missing from that?
>>>>
>>>> Also, if you want to try it out Ubuntu Studio is actually shipping. I
> haven't
>>>> installed it but we just got 20 dual processor dual core Dell workstations
>>>> into my office and I just might try one of them with it for kicks . .Way cool!
"Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>This is how you prevent that from ever happening (or, for that
>matter, also prevent someone from being so happy with the
>roughs that they don't want to come back for a final):
>
>http://www.voxengo.com/product/beeper/
>
>I used it recently on a commercial that had to be sent out for
>approval prior to payment. Wrote right on the CD that it
>was "beep-encoded" so there was no suprise or shock on the
>client side when they heard two little beeps in their 30-second
>spot.
>
>NeilWell put, LaMont
This, and topics like this, are what our NG (should) be about.
More than half of us are using other DAWs but these topics apply to us
all.--
Martin Harrington
Lend An Ear Sound
Sydney, Australia
0414 913 247James, you are SO predictable, chill out and be constructive...--
Martin Harrington
Lend An Ear Sound
Sydney, Australia
0414 913 247The Mac bashing is SO predictable.
"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>James, you are SO predictable, chill out and be constructive...--
>
>Martin Harrington
>Lend An Ear Sound
>Sydney, Australia
>0414 913 247
>Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>I read the article a while back, and I think there are multiple sides to
>this:
>
>1 - Vista isn't great for low latency audio. WaveRT is still, afaik, just
a
>marketing feature, not proven in reality for pro audio.
>
>2 - Cakewalk has staked their marketing on 64-bit in order to attempt to
>separate themselves from the market. Reality is (or so it seems from tests
>I've seen), there is little advantage for the audio engine, and for the
OS,
>memory access is the main advantage. 64-bit apps in a 64-bit OS can gain
>some performance gains, but so far that appears to be minimal).
>
>3 - Apple hasn't really worked for, or to the advantage of DAW/audio
>developers, except their own (Final Cut Pro and iTunes/QT/iLife being their
>main interests here, with Logic running a distant 5th, or 10th). Core audio
>is likely a 30% technical decision (easier to implement than someone else's
>protocol), and 70% product control - what you develop yourself, you can
>market, control and use to differentiate your product. ASIO is perfectly
>fast, and stable on WinXP, but it's Steinberg's protocol, not Apple's.
For
>example, direct monitoring still isn't supported by most hardware or
>software for OSX, and was questionable for core audio (whether this has
been
>slow to develop, or slow to release the SDK for, I don't know) - even Logic
>doesn't have it. Apple just isn't interested in supporting 3rd party audio
>applications or protocols for the Mac purely because they have a direct
>vested interest in their own, and in selling more Macs.
>
>Developers adopted AU and Core Audio because they had to in order to survive
>- most of them already had Mac products they would simply lose if they
>didn't. Notice that some developers that didn't have Mac support, never
>moved to AU (Voxengo for one; Algorithmix, etc). It was a forced decision
>since VST, ASIO, etc had been dropped, just as Logic 5/PC was - if it
>doesn't make money for Apple, it is unceremoniously canned.
|
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| Re: Paris Perspective: [message #88218 is a reply to message #87913] |
Mon, 16 July 2007 19:05 |
jp
Messages: 65
Registered: June 2005
|
Member |
|
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---=_linux46f578be--DJ wrote:
> "Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote in message
> news:C31AC0BB.CEA2%dterry@keyofd.net...
>> On 9/22/07 11:12 AM, in article 46f54ed6@linux, "DJ" <animix _ at _ animas
>> _
>> dot _ net> wrote:
>>
>>> "Jeff Hoover" <jkhoover@excite.com> wrote in message
>>> news:46f54816@linux...
>>>> Neil wrote:
>>>>> I think it would be iNebriated.
>>>>>
>>>> Maybe that would help with the iDolization of a piece of hardware.
>>>>
>>>> ;-p
>>>>
>>>> Jeff
>>>>> :D
>>> hehehheh!!!.....iAin't believin' how frenzied and emotional
>>> ......awwww..........nevermind.
>>>
>>> ;o)
>>>
>> iDon't get it. ;-)
>>
>> ......this could go on for a long time.
>
> iCan't even beliEve how long it's gone on already. iStill wonder what JaiMie
> was wanting to say.
>
> ;o)
>
>
iDunno, iDeej. iS thiS iNuff? :^)
I haven't bought an iAnything, yet. The newest iPod nano is tempting
with the video support but OTOH I'm dubious about the
non-user-changeable battery. More storage would be nice and it's missing
a couple of features I'd want. Maybe a future version will tempt me more.
I dig OSX, though, and some of the Apple production apps. My Logic 8
upgrade hasn't shown up yet...
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.comScratch that, just after I sent that last email, FedX rang the doorbell.
Logic 8 is here!!!
But I don't have time to install it until after I get back from the NY
shoot.
Anticipation...
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
Jamie K wrote:
> DJ wrote:
>> "Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote in message
>> news:C31AC0BB.CEA2%dterry@keyofd.net...
>>> On 9/22/07 11:12 AM, in article 46f54ed6@linux, "DJ" <animix _ at _
>>> animas _
>>> dot _ net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Jeff Hoover" <jkhoover@excite.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:46f54816@linux...
>>>>> Neil wrote:
>>>>>> I think it would be iNebriated.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe that would help with the iDolization of a piece of hardware.
>>>>>
>>>>> ;-p
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>> :D
>>>> hehehheh!!!.....iAin't believin' how frenzied and emotional
>>>> ......awwww..........nevermind.
>>>>
>>>> ;o)
>>>>
>>> iDon't get it. ;-)
>>>
>>> ......this could go on for a long time.
>>
>> iCan't even beliEve how long it's gone on already. iStill wonder what
>> JaiMie was wanting to say.
>>
>> ;o)
>>
>>
>
> iDunno, iDeej. iS thiS iNuff? :^)
>
> I haven't bought an iAnything, yet. The newest iPod nano is tempting
> with the video support but OTOH I'm dubious about the
> non-user-changeable battery. More storage would be nice and it's missing
> a couple of features I'd want. Maybe a future version will tempt me more.
>
> I dig OSX, though, and some of the Apple production apps. My Logic 8
> upgrade hasn't shown up yet...
>
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.comFollowed by iPuke, of course.
AA
"Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:46f52907$1@linux...
>
> I think it would be iNebriated.
>
> :D
>
>
> "Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>that'd be what.... iDrunk?
>>AA
>>
>>"erlilo" <erling.lovik@lyse.net> wrote in message
>>news:92l9f39fdcss9mv01s5guv15s6a62vmdla@4ax.com...
>>> ...I just love to drink some Scotch Whiskey made by some Macs...;o)
>>>
>>> erlilo
>>>
>>> On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 19:28:25 -0600, "DJ" <animix _ at _ animas _ dot _
>>> net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Let's all just take a step back, mix ourselves a hot toddy, throw
>>>>another
>>>>Mac on the fire and have a group hug.
>>>>
>>>>;o)
>>>>
>>
>>
>don't you mean iNstitutionalized, John?
AA
"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:46f56cc9$1@linux...
>
> well, we have been institutionalized but you'd think that would have
> helped
> :-) http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=862899&fr=&cac he=1"Neil" <OIUOIU@OI.com> wrote in message news:46f57871$1@linux...
>
> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Boy oh boy, you guys are some real funny motherfuckers!
>
> Sedona, James... think Sedona.
>
> lol
>
errr.......wouldn't that be thiNk Sedona?
;o)>>Boy oh boy, you guys are some real funny motherfuckers!
>
>
> ; )
....and we're funny "lookiNg" motherfuckers to boot. ;o)
Ya know, you 'n me have some similar quirks. We're both pretty conservative
thinking guys on many levels and then we both nelly out on issues that are
decidedly associated with the more liberal friends we have........for me
it's animal rights, for you it's Macs.
I'm gonna respect your Macness and not give you any more grief. I have been
kiddin' around (almost) the whole time. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings
man. Seriously. I just have this sick side that......well......you already
know.......
;o)I think so.
"erlilo" <erling.lovik@lyse.net> wrote in message
news:vmqaf35eaufkjasm48ojmndonil634693u@4ax.com...
> Wasn't it Angus that won different prizes for his jazzrecordings with
> Paris?
>
> Erling
>
> On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 12:35:20 -0600, "DJ" <animix _ at _ animas _ dot _
> net> wrote:
>
>>Back in the 90's there was a Parisite named Angus who had a big studio in
>>Scotland. Perhaps you knew him if you were a distributor? I can't remember
>>his last name or the name of the place, but it was a fairly substantial
>>commercial facility. I have a (perhaps inaccurate) recollection is that he
>>may have migrated to Nuendo. You might check that forum and search for
>>posts
>>under the name Angus.....I dunno......wish I could help. Half my family
>>tree
>>are Scots (McLardy - the other half is Joyce - Welsh/Irish by way of
>>Normandy circa 1066) and I've never even been to either place.
>>
>>I'd love to come for a visit, but it's not in the cards right now.
>>
>>Best of luck,
>>DJ
>>.
>>
>>
>>"Kerr Mathieson" <oneninehundred@virgin.net> wrote in message
>>news:46f543c6@linux...
>>> anyone posting/reading here based in the UK?
>>>
>>> I need a 'friendly' to help me with some testing as I may have a
>>> hardware
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> thanks
>>>
>>> Kerr
>>aloha!
long time no post on here.... honestly... long time no use of Paris ....
but that is now changing...
after buying a new house and 2 months later, loosing my day gig.... it seems
as good of a time as any to start a new venture.... and bring the old girl
up to date to help in that process...
so, I just purchased a new(er) box to house Paris (the old one is 10 yrs
old... was running on windows 98... and is...well... um... slow)
the new box has a brand spankin' new and fresh install of XP....
here comes the big question...
I have never done a Paris install on XP before... what sort of obstacles
should I be looking out for? any hints/suggestions?
scott h (a.K.a.-fresnel)DJ wrote:
>>> Boy oh boy, you guys are some real funny motherfuckers!
>>
>> ; )
>
> ...and we're funny "lookiNg" motherfuckers to boot. ;o)
>
> Ya know, you 'n me have some similar quirks. We're both pretty conservative
> thinking guys on many levels and then we both nelly out on issues that are
> decidedly associated with the more liberal friends we have........for me
> it's animal rights, for you it's Macs.
Heh. So Macs are "liberal" now? How so?
iDoubtit. :^)
What about Rush Limbaugh, should we take his Mac away?
Nah, not everything can be shoehorned into a simplistic and one
dimensional "liberal"/"conservative" dichotomy.
Granted, such a contrived construct can be useful for people who enjoy
talking past each other, and who relish buying into a particular story
line no matter what. We're gonna see a lot of that over the next year or
so.
But in a vast, multidimensional universe, two points on a single line
don't solve many overall problems, and I wouldn't think they really help
with computer shopping.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.comOn 9/22/07 7:04 PM, in article 46f5bd71$1@linux, "Jamie K"
<Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
> DJ wrote:
>>>> Boy oh boy, you guys are some real funny motherfuckers!
>>>
>>> ; )
>>
>> ...and we're funny "lookiNg" motherfuckers to boot. ;o)
>>
>> Ya know, you 'n me have some similar quirks. We're both pretty conservative
>> thinking guys on many levels and then we both nelly out on issues that are
>> decidedly associated with the more liberal friends we have........for me
>> it's animal rights, for you it's Macs.
>
> Heh. So Macs are "liberal" now? How so?
>
> iDoubtit. :^)
>
> What about Rush Limbaugh, should we take his Mac away?
>
> Nah, not everything can be shoehorned into a simplistic and one
> dimensional "liberal"/"conservative" dichotomy.
>
> Granted, such a contrived construct can be useful for people who enjoy
> talking past each other, and who relish buying into a particular story
> line no matter what. We're gonna see a lot of that over the next year or
> so.
>
> But in a vast, multidimensional universe, two points on a single line
> don't solve many overall problems, and I wouldn't think they really help
> with computer shopping.
>
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
So which dimension are Mac users from? Sounds like a philosophy on the odds
for being struck by an asteroid, and winning the lottery....at the same
time.
I didn't know Mac users thought that deeply about their computers. Might be
a good idea to turn off the voice response system, Dave.
;-))Hi Scott.
This should tell you everything you need to know:
http://homepage.mac.com/osxlover/ParisFAQs/parisonxp.html
Cheers.
"scott h" <fresnelmusic@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>aloha!
>
> long time no post on here.... honestly... long time no use of Paris ....
>but that is now changing...
>
>
>after buying a new house and 2 months later, loosing my day gig.... it seems
>as good of a time as any to start a new venture.... and bring the old girl
>up to date to help in that process...
>
>so, I just purchased a new(er) box to house Paris (the old one is 10 yrs
>old... was running on windows 98... and is...well... um... slow)
>
>the new box has a brand spankin' new and fresh install of XP....
>
>here comes the big question...
>
>I have never done a Paris install on XP before... what sort of obstacles
>should I be looking out for? any hints/suggestions?
>
>
>scott h (a.K.a.-fresnel)"Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:46f5bd71$1@linux...
> DJ wrote:
>>>> Boy oh boy, you guys are some real funny motherfuckers!
>>>
>>> ; )
>>
>> ...and we're funny "lookiNg" motherfuckers to boot. ;o)
>>
>> Ya know, you 'n me have some similar quirks. We're both pretty
>> conservative thinking guys on many levels and then we both nelly out on
>> issues that are decidedly associated with the more liberal friends we
>> have........for me it's animal rights, for you it's Macs.
>
> Heh. So Macs are "liberal" now? How so?
>
> iDoubtit. :^)
>
> What about Rush Limbaugh, should we take his Mac away?
>
> Nah, not everything can be shoehorned into a simplistic and one
> dimensional "liberal"/"conservative" dichotomy.
>
Most of my more liberal friends use Macs so for me, it's a POV kinda' thing.
Rush ain't my friend, so he don't count.
> Granted, such a contrived construct can be useful for people who enjoy
> talking past each other, and who relish buying into a particular story
> line no matter what. We're gonna see a lot of that over the next year or
> so.
Awwww......c'mon Jaimie. You think the guys in the Mac ads aren't
(subliminally, at least) shoehorned?. I hardly see the kid on the right as
being a Sean Hannity fan. Maybe I'm off base here, but .....anyway.
;o)
>
> But in a vast, multidimensional universe, two points on a single line
> don't solve many overall problems, and I wouldn't think they really help
> with computer shopping.
>
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
i'M not tryiNg to solve problems....i'M tryiNg to be niCe to James dammiT!!!
Stop screwiN' thiS up!!!.
;oDDJ wrote:
> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:46f5bd71$1@linux...
>> DJ wrote:
>>>>> Boy oh boy, you guys are some real funny motherfuckers!
>>>> ; )
>>> ...and we're funny "lookiNg" motherfuckers to boot. ;o)
>>>
>>> Ya know, you 'n me have some similar quirks. We're both pretty
>>> conservative thinking guys on many levels and then we both nelly out on
>>> issues that are decidedly associated with the more liberal friends we
>>> have........for me it's animal rights, for you it's Macs.
>> Heh. So Macs are "liberal" now? How so?
>>
>> iDoubtit. :^)
>>
>> What about Rush Limbaugh, should we take his Mac away?
>>
>> Nah, not everything can be shoehorned into a simplistic and one
>> dimensional "liberal"/"conservative" dichotomy.
>>
> Most of my more liberal friends use Macs so for me, it's a POV kinda' thing.
> Rush ain't my friend, so he don't count.
POV, gotcha.
>> Granted, such a contrived construct can be useful for people who enjoy
>> talking past each other, and who relish buying into a particular story
>> line no matter what. We're gonna see a lot of that over the next year or
>> so.
>
> Awwww......c'mon Jaimie. You think the guys in the Mac ads aren't
> (subliminally, at least) shoehorned?. I hardly see the kid on the right as
> being a Sean Hannity fan. Maybe I'm off base here, but .....anyway.
Sure, if you think commercials represent reality. :^)
OTOH, do YOU identify with the "PC" guy in those spots? I didn't think so.
You're way cooler...
> ;o)
>
>> But in a vast, multidimensional universe, two points on a single line
>> don't solve many overall problems, and I wouldn't think they really help
>> with computer shopping.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
> i'M not tryiNg to solve problems....i'M tryiNg to be niCe to James dammiT!!!
> Stop screwiN' thiS up!!!.
Sorry. You hit one of my pet peeves - the simplistic division of
Americans into two knee-jerk groups.
Carry on!
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
> ;oD
>
>Dedric Terry wrote:
> On 9/22/07 7:04 PM, in article 46f5bd71$1@linux, "Jamie K"
> <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>
>> DJ wrote:
>>>>> Boy oh boy, you guys are some real funny motherfuckers!
>>>> ; )
>>> ...and we're funny "lookiNg" motherfuckers to boot. ;o)
>>>
>>> Ya know, you 'n me have some similar quirks. We're both pretty conservative
>>> thinking guys on many levels and then we both nelly out on issues that are
>>> decidedly associated with the more liberal friends we have........for me
>>> it's animal rights, for you it's Macs.
>> Heh. So Macs are "liberal" now? How so?
>&g
|
|
|
|
| Re: Paris Perspective: [message #88226 is a reply to message #88218] |
Mon, 16 July 2007 21:16 |
Ted Gerber
Messages: 705
Registered: January 2009
|
Senior Member |
|
|
mail.com" target="_blank">excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:46f4188e$1@linux...
>>>
>>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Cowardly? No actually the no@no.com means I don't want to be bothered
> by
>>>>you. The people here who know me know exactly how to get in touch with
>>> me.
>>>> Think different !
>>>
>>> Hey, glad to be your entertainment. No john you are a coward. You have
>>> an open invitation to come to Detroit and insult me to my face, I'd like
>>> to see you try! Maybe some day we'll catch up with each other. I'll
> give
>>> you the opportunity to run your big mouth then.
>>>
>>> As LaMont would say, PUNKASS BITCH!
>>
>>
>Wouldn't that be an iHorse?
"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>If you care to get off your high horse and go back a few posts (days) you'll
>see that I stated that I really like the OSX interface.
>I just wish that you'd stop the over zealous one eyed immature defense of
>Macs.
>They are just an overpriced (generally) piece of machinery that happens
to
>run a half decent operating system.
>Nothing more.
>
>--
>Martin Harrington
>Lend An Ear Sound
>Sydney, Australia
>0414913247
>
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:46f741bd$1@linux...
>>
>> I still own a lot of Paris gear and don't get to use it as much as I like
>> to. I contribute when I can. Any time there is a mac post the bashing
>> starts,
>> and your one of the bashers. I'm not the only Mac user here! When you
>> insist
>> that Mac OSX sucks, what are you contributing? So what respect do you
>> show
>> when you dish out insults to Mac users? Have I ever personally insulted
>> you?
>>
>> "Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>>James,apart from entertainment and amusement value, what is it that you
>> add
>>>to this group.
>>>I know that I dont contribute much these days as I no longer have Paris,
>> and
>>>dont record music anymore but I at least respect the users here, and I
>>>hope
>>
>>>that goes both ways.
>>>You, on the other hand............
>>>
>>>--
>>>Martin Harrington
>>>Lend An Ear Sound
>>>Sydney Australia
>>>02 9413 8666
>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:46f4188e$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>Cowardly? No actually the no@no.com means I don't want to be bothered
>> by
>>>>>you. The people here who know me know exactly how to get in touch with
>>>> me.
>>>>> Think different !
>>>>
>>>> Hey, glad to be your entertainment. No john you are a coward. You
have
>>>> an open invitation to come to Detroit and insult me to my face, I'd
like
>>>> to see you try! Maybe some day we'll catch up with each other. I'll
>> give
>>>> you the opportunity to run your big mouth then.
>>>>
>>>> As LaMont would say, PUNKASS BITCH!
>>>
>>>
>>
>a silent wave from here.
On 24 Sep 2007 07:10:50 +1000, "steve the artguy"
<artguy@somethingorother.net> wrote:
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>"Bart" <wmn987@yahoo.om> wrote:
>>>http://us.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/09/23/marceau.ap/index.html
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Long live Paris!
>
>In honor of Marceau, I shall temporarily be speechless.Thanks guys, I'll start the paper trail and see what follows.
there was also a (post production, I think) studio in Leith (edinburgh) that
were stalwarts of the system, can't for the life of me remember the name,
but its worth checking into.
thanks again
Kerr
"erlilo" <erling.lovik@lyse.net> wrote in message
news:diccf3hvth5ccr48huhnucuhmbp02mfo8c@4ax.com...
>I think it was Caber Music with Tom Bancroft that won jazzprizes.
> I found this old site that can be a help:
>
> http://www.cabermusic.com/
>
> Erling
>
> On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 17:12:23 -0600, "DJ" <animix _ at _ animas _ dot _
> net> wrote:
>
>>I think so.
>>
>>"erlilo" <erling.lovik@lyse.net> wrote in message
>>news:vmqaf35eaufkjasm48ojmndonil634693u@4ax.com...
>>> Wasn't it Angus that won different prizes for his jazzrecordings with
>>> Paris?
>>>
>>> Erling
>>>
>>> On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 12:35:20 -0600, "DJ" <animix _ at _ animas _ dot _
>>> net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Back in the 90's there was a Parisite named Angus who had a big studio
>>>>in
>>>>Scotland. Perhaps you knew him if you were a distributor? I can't
>>>>remember
>>>>his last name or the name of the place, but it was a fairly substantial
>>>>commercial facility. I have a (perhaps inaccurate) recollection is that
>>>>he
>>>>may have migrated to Nuendo. You might check that forum and search for
>>>>posts
>>>>under the name Angus.....I dunno......wish I could help. Half my family
>>>>tree
>>>>are Scots (McLardy - the other half is Joyce - Welsh/Irish by way of
>>>>Normandy circa 1066) and I've never even been to either place.
>>>>
>>>>I'd love to come for a visit, but it's not in the cards right now.
>>>>
>>>>Best of luck,
>>>>DJ
>>>>.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Kerr Mathieson" <oneninehundred@virgin.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:46f543c6@linux...
>>>>> anyone posting/reading here based in the UK?
>>>>>
>>>>> I need a 'friendly' to help me with some testing as I may have a
>>>>> hardware
>>>>> problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> Kerr
>>>>
>>Red Studios, was their name, or some derivative of that
--
Martin Harrington
Lend An Ear Sound
Sydney, Australia
0414913247
"Kerr Mathieson" <oneninehundred@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:46f78501$1@linux...
> Thanks guys, I'll start the paper trail and see what follows.
>
> there was also a (post production, I think) studio in Leith (edinburgh)
> that were stalwarts of the system, can't for the life of me remember the
> name, but its worth checking into.
>
> thanks again
>
> Kerr
>
> "erlilo" <erling.lovik@lyse.net> wrote in message
> news:diccf3hvth5ccr48huhnucuhmbp02mfo8c@4ax.com...
>>I think it was Caber Music with Tom Bancroft that won jazzprizes.
>> I found this old site that can be a help:
>>
>> http://www.cabermusic.com/
>>
>> Erling
>>
>> On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 17:12:23 -0600, "DJ" <animix _ at _ animas _ dot _
>> net> wrote:
>>
>>>I think so.
>>>
>>>"erlilo" <erling.lovik@lyse.net> wrote in message
>>>news:vmqaf35eaufkjasm48ojmndonil634693u@4ax.com...
>>>> Wasn't it Angus that won different prizes for his jazzrecordings with
>>>> Paris?
>>>>
>>>> Erling
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 12:35:20 -0600, "DJ" <animix _ at _ animas _ dot _
>>>> net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Back in the 90's there was a Parisite named Angus who had a big studio
>>>>>in
>>>>>Scotland. Perhaps you knew him if you were a distributor? I can't
>>>>>remember
>>>>>his last name or the name of the place, but it was a fairly substantial
>>>>>commercial facility. I have a (perhaps inaccurate) recollection is that
>>>>>he
>>>>>may have migrated to Nuendo. You might check that forum and search for
>>>>>posts
>>>>>under the name Angus.....I dunno......wish I could help. Half my family
>>>>>tree
>>>>>are Scots (McLardy - the other half is Joyce - Welsh/Irish by way of
>>>>>Normandy circa 1066) and I've never even been to either place.
>>>>>
>>>>>I'd love to come for a visit, but it's not in the cards right now.
>>>>>
>>>>>Best of luck,
>>>>>DJ
>>>>>.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Kerr Mathieson" <oneninehundred@virgin.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:46f543c6@linux...
>>>>>> anyone posting/reading here based in the UK?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I need a 'friendly' to help me with some testing as I may have a
>>>>>> hardware
>>>>>> problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kerr
>>>>>
>>>
>; >P.
--
Martin Harrington
Lend An Ear Sound
Sydney, Australia
0414913247
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:46f77624$1@linux...
>
> Wouldn't that be an iHorse?
>
> "Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>If you care to get off your high horse and go back a few posts (days)
>>you'll
>
>>see that I stated that I really like the OSX interface.
>>I just wish that you'd stop the over zealous one eyed immature defense of
>
>>Macs.
>>They are just an overpriced (generally) piece of machinery that happens
> to
>>run a half decent operating system.
>>Nothing more.
>>
>>--
>>Martin Harrington
>>Lend An Ear Sound
>>Sydney, Australia
>>0414913247
>>
>>
>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:46f741bd$1@linux...
>>>
>>> I still own a lot of Paris gear and don't get to use it as much as I
>>> like
>>> to. I contribute when I can. Any time there is a mac post the bashing
>
>>> starts,
>>> and your one of the bashers. I'm not the only Mac user here! When you
>
>>> insist
>>> that Mac OSX sucks, what are you contributing? So what respect do you
>
>>> show
>>> when you dish out insults to Mac users? Have I ever personally insulted
>>> you?
>>>
>>> "Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>>>James,apart from entertainment and amusement value, what is it that you
>>> add
>>>>to this group.
>>>>I know that I dont contribute much these days as I no longer have Paris,
>>> and
>>>>dont record music anymore but I at least respect the users here, and I
>
>>>>hope
>>>
>>>>that goes both ways.
>>>>You, on the other hand............
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Martin Harrington
>>>>Lend An Ear Sound
>>>>Sydney Australia
>>>>02 9413 8666
>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:46f4188e$1@linux...
>>>>>
>>>>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Cowardly? No actually the no@no.com means I don't want to be bothered
>>> by
>>>>>>you. The people here who know me know exactly how to get in touch
>>>>>>with
>>>>> me.
>>>>>> Think different !
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey, glad to be your entertainment. No john you are a coward. You
> have
>>>>> an open invitation to come to Detroit and insult me to my face, I'd
> like
>>>>> to see you try! Maybe some day we'll catch up with each other. I'll
>>> give
>>>>> you the opportunity to run your big mouth then.
>>>>>
>>>>> As LaMont would say, PUNKASS BITCH!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>thats it! red Facilities, looks like they've moved to Nuendo too (maybe its
the same guy). Still, i'll drop them a mail
"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:46f787c4$1@linux...
> Red Studios, was their name, or some derivative of that
>
> --
> Martin Harrington
> Lend An Ear Sound
> Sydney, Australia
> 0414913247
>
> "Kerr Mathieson" <oneninehundred@virgin.net> wrote in message
> news:46f78501$1@linux...
>> Thanks guys, I'll start the paper trail and see what follows.
>>
>> there was also a (post production, I think) studio in Leith (edinburgh)
>> that were stalwarts of the system, can't for the life of me remember the
>> name, but its worth checking into.
>>
>> thanks again
>>
>> Kerr
>>
>> "erlilo" <erling.lovik@lyse.net> wrote in message
>> news:diccf3hvth5ccr48huhnucuhmbp02mfo8c@4ax.com...
>>>I think it was Caber Music with Tom Bancroft that won jazzprizes.
>>> I found this old site that can be a help:
>>>
>>> http://www.cabermusic.com/
>>>
>>> Erling
>>>
>>> On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 17:12:23 -0600, "DJ" <animix _ at _ animas _ dot _
>>> net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I think so.
>>>>
>>>>"erlilo" <erling.lovik@lyse.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:vmqaf35eaufkjasm48ojmndonil634693u@4ax.com...
>>>>> Wasn't it Angus that won different prizes for his jazzrecordings with
>>>>> Paris?
>>>>>
>>>>> Erling
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 12:35:20 -0600, "DJ" <animix _ at _ animas _ dot _
>>>>> net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Back in the 90's there was a Parisite named Angus who had a big studio
>>>>>>in
>>>>>>Scotland. Perhaps you knew him if you were a distributor? I can't
>>>>>>remember
>>>>>>his last name or the name of the place, but it was a fairly
>>>>>>substantial
>>>>>>commercial facility. I have a (perhaps inaccurate) recollection is
>>>>>>that he
>>>>>>may have migrated to Nuendo. You might check that forum and search for
>>>>>>posts
>>>>>>under the name Angus.....I dunno......wish I could help. Half my
>>>>>>family
>>>>>>tree
>>>>>>are Scots (McLardy - the other half is Joyce - Welsh/Irish by way of
>>>>>>Normandy circa 1066) and I've never even been to either place.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I'd love to come for a visit, but it's not in the cards right now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Best of luck,
>>>>>>DJ
>>>>>>.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Kerr Mathieson" <oneninehundred@virgin.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:46f543c6@linux...
>>>>>>> anyone posting/reading here based in the UK?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I need a 'friendly' to help me with some testing as I may have a
>>>>>>> hardware
>>>>>>> problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thanks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kerr
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>And here it's much worse than just dynamics or pumping. Here the sound is
just smeared with a crushed distortion that is unlistenable. I wonder what
a sine wave would come out as.I don't know how many users other than Lamont and I are using Nuendo, but N4
was just released - shipping in early October:
Highlights:
* New automation system (complete automation panel): new modes include the
ability to only write from an point, leaving previous sections absent of
automation (Virgin Territory option); fill modes, preview mode, and much
more. Looks like automation is about 15x more powerful than it was before.
* New key commands for Cut head/tail, selections (great for post)
* Free routing: any group or fx to any other, plus post fader routing
* Media Bay (I hear it's enhanced from Cubase 4 and works quite well for an
FX database - also great for post)
* VST3 - all included plugins are VST3 (biggest post advantage is automatic
adapting to multichannel configs - Flux plugins already do, but now VST3
plugins and Nuendo's stock plugins will also).
* New logical editor looks much more powerful
....etc...
I'll let you guys read the rest from Steinberg if interested.
For post this is a great release - the new automation and key commands alone
are worth the $249 upgrade - free routing will be a big boost for me as
well.
Regards,
DedricHey folks... does this sound ridiculous, or does it sound ok? I use to track/record
straight from the instruments/mics to preamps and directly into my 8in cards.
For the purpose of performing live, I recently purchased a behringer SL3242
(24 channel mixer) and I have the main outs going back into 2 channels on
the mixer. If you are familiar with this mixer, there are no direct outs
(like I am use to for multi-track recording) and I have to use the Sub 1
thru 4. I am so disappointed with the levels I could cry. Levels within
the mixer are good, but what is going out the subs into Paris is so low.
I have the sub levels almost max'd, but still I have to open each .paf file
after recording and increase about 10db. Playback is ok... except again
the levels I am sending to Paris. My question is... would it be inappropriate
to put a 4 channel preamp between this mixer and Paris... I need better
levels bad and I am getting desperate. I love this mixer except for this
reason. I would have never purchased it if I knew it didn't have direct
outs. I don't like the subgroup crap, but I have no choice but to use it...
Has anyone else run into this kind of problem? Of course if I use a preamp
between the mixer and Paris (on the 4 subgroups) I don't want to hurt my
levels coming back into the mixer while I am recording. I am one of those
all around performer... I do all the instruments... and my abilities are
limited to only recording one at a time... lol.
Any comments or suggestions... besides throwing away the mixer. Sorry but
$600 is like Ft Knox to me... I am a peasant and that is many months of
savings to me...
Anyone?I don't see ANY decent music recording DAWs coming to life anywhere... that
is affordable without a Sony bank account. I scratch my head and wonder
why... why can't they purchase a used Paris system and build one like it!
OMG!
All they build is little Firewire and USB crap anymore. I feel like I am
back in the Abby Road studios with the Beatles who were limited to 4 or 8
track recording while the rest of the world was enjoying many tracks.
"Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote:
>Those companies aren't actually in the "music business". As
>far as new recording products coming from Yamaha... I will
>remind you of this conversation, sooner than you might expect.
>
>David.
>
>LaMont wrote:
>> Correction: That would be Microsoft/Advid & Apple.
>>
>> EK Sound <askme@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>>AND, Steinberg now has the deepest pockets in the industry... Yamaha.
>>> Look for cool things in the future!
>>>
>>>David.
>>>
>>>Neil wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"LaMont" jjdpro&funk.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Both Companies are armed and readdy for the DAW showdown. Apple is one
>>
>> corner,
>>
>>>>>Digi in the other.
>>>>>
>>>>>Eveybody else including Steingberg are just a non-factor at this point.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>How can you say Swineberg is a non-factor? Some of the features
>>>>that these other guys have been implementing have been standard
>>>>in Cube-endo for YEARS now! Their stuff just plain works &
>>>>works well, (well, once they work the bugs out of their "paid
>>>>beta" releases, like SX2 & now C4, apparently), and has been
>>>>priced appropriately all along.
>>>>
>>>>ROFL - other guys just now start playing catch-up and all of a
>>>>sudden the more-features-for-the-buck leader becomes
>>>>irrelevant? Izzat what you're saying? The Dodge Viper didn't put
>>>>Ferrari out of business, Lamont.
>>>>
>>>>Neil
>>
>>Hi Dedric,
Crips that automation features stuff looks amazing.
I hope the freely assignable i/o-effects stuff ends up in C 4.
But hey whats up with the Expansion kit. That parts kinda silly IMHO.
If they were gonna do that then they should make the price lower I think.
Chris
Dedric Terry wrote:
> I don't know how many users other than Lamont and I are using Nuendo, but N4
> was just released - shipping in early October:
>
> Highlights:
>
> * New automation system (complete automation panel): new modes include the
> ability to only write from an point, leaving previous sections absent of
> automation (Virgin Territory option); fill modes, preview mode, and much
> more. Looks like automation is about 15x more powerful than it was before.
>
> * New key commands for Cut head/tail, selections (great for post)
>
> * Free routing: any group or fx to any other, plus post fader routing
>
> * Media Bay (I hear it's enhanced from Cubase 4 and works quite well for an
> FX database - also great for post)
>
> * VST3 - all included plugins are VST3 (biggest post advantage is automatic
> adapting to multichannel configs - Flux plugins already do, but now VST3
> plugins and Nuendo's stock plugins will also).
>
> * New logical editor looks much more powerful
>
> ....etc...
>
> I'll let you guys read the rest from Steinberg if interested.
>
> For post this is a great release - the new automation and key commands alone
> are worth the $249 upgrade - free routing will be a big boost for me as
> well.
>
> Regards,
> Dedric
>
--
Chris Ludwig
ADK Pro Audio
(859) 635-5762
www.adkproaudio.com
chrisl@adkproaudio.comOh and whats this mean?
Direct X ASIO 64 Bit
Chris Ludwig wrote:
> Hi Dedric,
> Crips that automation features stuff looks amazing.
> I hope the freely assignable i/o-effects stuff ends up in C 4.
> But hey whats up with the Expansion kit. That parts kinda silly IMHO.
> If they were gonna do that then they should make the price lower I think.
>
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> Dedric Terry wrote:
>> I don't know how many users other than Lamont and I are using Nuendo,
>> but N4
>> was just released - shipping in early October:
>>
>> Highlights:
>>
>> * New automation system (complete automation panel): new modes include
>> the
>> ability to only write from an point, leaving previous sections absent of
>> automation (Virgin Territory option); fill modes, preview mode, and much
>> more. Looks like automation is about 15x more powerful than it was
>> before.
>>
>> * New key commands for Cut head/tail, selections (great for post)
>>
>> * Free routing: any group or fx to any other, plus post fader routing
>>
>> * Media Bay (I hear it's enhanced from Cubase 4 and works quite well
>> for an
>> FX database - also great for post)
>>
>> * VST3 - all included plugins are VST3 (biggest post advantage is
>> automatic
>> adapting to multichannel configs - Flux plugins already do, but now VST3
>> plugins and Nuendo's stock plugins will also).
>>
>> * New logical editor looks much more powerful
>>
>> ....etc...
>>
>> I'll let you guys read the rest from Steinberg if interested.
>>
>> For post this is a great release - the new automation and key commands
>> alone
>> are worth the $249 upgrade - free routing will be a big boost for me as
>> well.
>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Paris Perspective: [message #88228 is a reply to message #88218] |
Mon, 16 July 2007 21:40 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
r />
>but there's something nice happening in the top end that is definitely
>noticable,.especially on up front things like vocal tracks. The resource
hit
>for "ITB" stuff is getting ready to double around here and I'm looking to
>integrate hardware more frequently than I already do to save resources.
>
So does this mean you won't be able to use the UAD 33609, since it doesn't
work about 48K?Automation does look amazing, and word from some beta testers is that it's
over the top of what
post users had asked for - instead of just giving users what they wanted, it
sounds like SB decided to
blow the doors off of it in hopes of gaining more ground in post, even in
large console facilities.
The expansion kit concept was rumored when Cubase 4 was released, but in a
different form. The NEK
idea is to allow post-only users to forgo the score editor and some extra
midi functionality, but for those of
us that do post, composing and sound design, to keep it. It's a bit odd at
first glance, I agree, but after thinking
through the market, it's about as close to making sense as I think a DAW
developer aiming for post and music
markets can be. While a post app really doesn't need midi at all, it's
becoming useful for many areas of that market,
and for sound design/composing, of course its' crucial, but so are some post
features (edit mode for scrubbing events
to picture, automation, etc), so leaving out midi features also wouldn't
make sense.
Regards,
Dedric
"Chris Ludwig" <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote in message
news:46f7db45$1@linux...
> Hi Dedric,
> Crips that automation features stuff looks amazing.
> I hope the freely assignable i/o-effects stuff ends up in C 4.
> But hey whats up with the Expansion kit. That parts kinda silly IMHO.
> If they were gonna do that then they should make the price lower I think.
>
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> Dedric Terry wrote:
>> I don't know how many users other than Lamont and I are using Nuendo, but
>> N4
>> was just released - shipping in early October:
>>
>> Highlights:
>>
>> * New automation system (complete automation panel): new modes include
>> the
>> ability to only write from an point, leaving previous sections absent of
>> automation (Virgin Territory option); fill modes, preview mode, and much
>> more. Looks like automation is about 15x more powerful than it was
>> before.
>>
>> * New key commands for Cut head/tail, selections (great for post)
>>
>> * Free routing: any group or fx to any other, plus post fader routing
>>
>> * Media Bay (I hear it's enhanced from Cubase 4 and works quite well for
>> an
>> FX database - also great for post)
>>
>> * VST3 - all included plugins are VST3 (biggest post advantage is
>> automatic
>> adapting to multichannel configs - Flux plugins already do, but now VST3
>> plugins and Nuendo's stock plugins will also).
>>
>> * New logical editor looks much more powerful
>> ....etc...
>>
>> I'll let you guys read the rest from Steinberg if interested.
>>
>> For post this is a great release - the new automation and key commands
>> alone
>> are worth the $249 upgrade - free routing will be a big boost for me as
>> well.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dedric
>>
>
> --
> Chris Ludwig
>
> ADK Pro Audio
> (859) 635-5762
> www.adkproaudio.com
> chrisl@adkproaudio.comHI DJ,
From the video it looks like any audio, group, fx or VST connection can
be routed to any other. Not sure if it does all the same stuff but I
beet you it i way easier to figure out how to do it. :)
Chris
DJ wrote:
> Does the freely assignable routing mean that the ASIO I/O can be assigned
> the same way as in Reaper?
>
> "Chris Ludwig" <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote in message
> news:46f7db45$1@linux...
>> Hi Dedric,
>> Crips that automation features stuff looks amazing.
>> I hope the freely assignable i/o-effects stuff ends up in C 4.
>> But hey whats up with the Expansion kit. That parts kinda silly IMHO.
>> If they were gonna do that then they should make the price lower I think.
>>
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>> Dedric Terry wrote:
>>> I don't know how many users other than Lamont and I are using Nuendo, but
>>> N4
>>> was just released - shipping in early October:
>>>
>>> Highlights:
>>>
>>> * New automation system (complete automation panel): new modes include
>>> the
>>> ability to only write from an point, leaving previous sections absent of
>>> automation (Virgin Territory option); fill modes, preview mode, and much
>>> more. Looks like automation is about 15x more powerful than it was
>>> before.
>>>
>>> * New key commands for Cut head/tail, selections (great for post)
>>>
>>> * Free routing: any group or fx to any other, plus post fader routing
>>>
>>> * Media Bay (I hear it's enhanced from Cubase 4 and works quite well for
>>> an
>>> FX database - also great for post)
>>>
>>> * VST3 - all included plugins are VST3 (biggest post advantage is
>>> automatic
>>> adapting to multichannel configs - Flux plugins already do, but now VST3
>>> plugins and Nuendo's stock plugins will also).
>>>
>>> * New logical editor looks much more powerful
>>> ....etc...
>>>
>>> I'll let you guys read the rest from Steinberg if interested.
>>>
>>> For post this is a great release - the new automation and key commands
>>> alone
>>> are worth the $249 upgrade - free routing will be a big boost for me as
>>> well.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dedric
>>>
>> --
>> Chris Ludwig
>>
>> ADK Pro Audio
>> (859) 635-5762
>> www.adkproaudio.com
>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com
>
>
--
Chris Ludwig
ADK Pro Audio
(859) 635-5762
www.adkproaudio.com
chrisl@adkproaudio.comAny group can send to any other group or fx (no order requirement anymore),
and any fx can assign to any group or fx.
Also, sends can now be post fader (output assignment tab now includes
groups, fx, etc). In addition we can also
route any group, fx, or buss back into an audio track for submix/mixdown.
Nuendo will also detect loop backs and disable
them. Sweet.
Imho, routing sounds like it is just as flexible as Reaper, but not as
confusing to trace as Reaper's is.
Cubase 4.1 is on the way and should include the music production features
(routing, etc) sans post features (don't know how much
of the new automation will make it into C4.1, but some might, if not all).
Regards,
Dedric
"DJ" <animix _ at _ animas _ dot _ net> wrote in message
news:46f7de07$1@linux...
> Does the freely assignable routing mean that the ASIO I/O can be assigned
> the same way as in Reaper?
>
> "Chris Ludwig" <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote in message
> news:46f7db45$1@linux...
>> Hi Dedric,
>> Crips that automation features stuff looks amazing.
>> I hope the freely assignable i/o-effects stuff ends up in C 4.
>> But hey whats up with the Expansion kit. That parts kinda silly IMHO.
>> If they were gonna do that then they should make the price lower I think.
>>
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>> Dedric Terry wrote:
>>> I don't know how many users other than Lamont and I are using Nuendo,
>>> but N4
>>> was just released - shipping in early October:
>>>
>>> Highlights:
>>>
>>> * New automation system (complete automation panel): new modes include
>>> the
>>> ability to only write from an point, leaving previous sections absent of
>>> automation (Virgin Territory option); fill modes, preview mode, and much
>>> more. Looks like automation is about 15x more powerful than it was
>>> before.
>>>
>>> * New key commands for Cut head/tail, selections (great for post)
>>>
>>> * Free routing: any group or fx to any other, plus post fader routing
>>>
>>> * Media Bay (I hear it's enhanced from Cubase 4 and works quite well for
>>> an
>>> FX database - also great for post)
>>>
>>> * VST3 - all included plugins are VST3 (biggest post advantage is
>>> automatic
>>> adapting to multichannel configs - Flux plugins already do, but now VST3
>>> plugins and Nuendo's stock plugins will also).
>>>
>>> * New logical editor looks much more powerful
>>> ....etc...
>>>
>>> I'll let you guys read the rest from Steinberg if interested.
>>>
>>> For post this is a great release - the new automation and key commands
>>> alone
>>> are worth the $249 upgrade - free routing will be a big boost for me as
>>> well.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dedric
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Chris Ludwig
>>
>> ADK Pro Audio
>> (859) 635-5762
>> www.adkproaudio.com
>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com
>
>Hey Dedric,
Did they dump DX completely?
David.
Dedric Terry wrote:
> I don't know how many users other than Lamont and I are using Nuendo, but N4
> was just released - shipping in early October:
>
> Highlights:
>
> * New automation system (complete automation panel): new modes include the
> ability to only write from an point, leaving previous sections absent of
> automation (Virgin Territory option); fill modes, preview mode, and much
> more. Looks like automation is about 15x more powerful than it was before.
>
> * New key commands for Cut head/tail, selections (great for post)
>
> * Free routing: any group or fx to any other, plus post fader routing
>
> * Media Bay (I hear it's enhanced from Cubase 4 and works quite well for an
> FX database - also great for post)
>
> * VST3 - all included plugins are VST3 (biggest post advantage is automatic
> adapting to multichannel configs - Flux plugins already do, but now VST3
> plugins and Nuendo's stock plugins will also).
>
> * New logical editor looks much more powerful
>
> ...etc...
>
> I'll let you guys read the rest from Steinberg if interested.
>
> For post this is a great release - the new automation and key commands alone
> are worth the $249 upgrade - free routing will be a big boost for me as
> well.
>
> Regards,
> Dedric
>Hi Dedric,
Yes makes sense but they better be clearer on what Nuendo's base MIDI
functionality is.
I would like to see them bundle Halion, Groove Agent and Hypersonic for
free with Cubase personally to give it that "perceived value" to the end
-user thing.
I think kicking up the marketing end now with both Logic 8 and Sonar 7.
Chris
Dedric Terry wrote:
> Automation does look amazing, and word from some beta testers is that
> it's over the top of what
> post users had asked for - instead of just giving users what they
> wanted, it sounds like SB decided to
> blow the doors off of it in hopes of gaining more ground in post, even
> in large console facilities.
>
> The expansion kit concept was rumored when Cubase 4 was released, but in
> a different form. The NEK
> idea is to allow post-only users to forgo the score editor and some
> extra midi functionality, but for those of
> us that do post, composing and sound design, to keep it. It's a bit odd
> at first glance, I agree, but after thinking
> through the market, it's about as close to making sense as I think a DAW
> developer aiming for post and music
> markets can be. While a post app really doesn't need midi at all, it's
> becoming useful for many areas of that market,
> and for sound design/composing, of course its' crucial, but so are some
> post features (edit mode for scrubbing events
> to picture, automation, etc), so leaving out midi features also wouldn't
> make sense.
>
> Regards,
> Dedric
>
>
> "Chris Ludwig" <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote in message
> news:46f7db45$1@linux...
>> Hi Dedric,
>> Crips that automation features stuff looks amazing.
>> I hope the freely assignable i/o-effects stuff ends up in C 4.
>> But hey whats up with the Expansion kit. That parts kinda silly IMHO.
>> If they were gonna do that then they should make the price lower I think.
>>
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>> Dedric Terry wrote:
>>> I don't know how many users other than Lamont and I are using Nuendo,
>>> but N4
>>> was just released - shipping in early October:
>>>
>>> Highlights:
>>>
>>> * New automation system (complete automation panel): new modes
>>> include the
>>> ability to only write from an point, leaving previous sections absent of
>>> automation (Virgin Territory option); fill modes, preview mode, and much
>>> more. Looks like automation is about 15x more powerful than it was
>>> before.
>>>
>>> * New key commands for Cut head/tail, selections (great for post)
>>>
>>> * Free routing: any group or fx to any other, plus post fader routing
>>>
>>> * Media Bay (I hear it's enhanced from Cubase 4 and works quite well
>>> for an
>>> FX database - also great for post)
>>>
>>> * VST3 - all included plugins are VST3 (biggest post advantage is
>>> automatic
>>> adapting to multichannel configs - Flux plugins already do, but now VST3
>>> plugins and Nuendo's stock plugins will also).
>>>
>>> * New logical editor looks much more powerful
>>> ....etc...
>>>
>>> I'll let you guys read the rest from Steinberg if interested.
>>>
>>> For post this is a great release - the new automation and key
>>> commands alone
>>> are worth the $249 upgrade - free routing will be a big boost for me as
>>> well.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dedric
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Chris Ludwig
>>
>> ADK Pro Audio
>> (859) 635-5762
>> www.adkproaudio.com
>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com
>
--
Chris Ludwig
ADK Pro Audio
(859) 635-5762
www.adkproaudio.com
chrisl@adkproaudio.comHI David,
I know they did in Cubase 4. There are now current DX plug ins being
made. Most of the old DX only plug ins either didn't well or had issues
even working on current OS versions. But that was mainly due to those
companies chose pf copy protection. From what I gather by the DX 64 bit
is that there will be a new DX plug in spec based on DX 10. But not
really sure.
Chris
EK Sound wrote:
> Hey Dedric,
>
> Did they dump DX completely?
>
> David.
>
> Dedric Terry wrote:
>> I don't know how many users other than Lamont and I are using Nuendo,
>> but N4
>> was just released - shipping in early October:
>>
>> Highlights:
>>
>> * New automation system (complete automation panel): new modes include
>> the
>> ability to only write from an point, leaving previous sections absent of
>> automation (Virgin Territory option); fill modes, preview mode, and much
>> more. Looks like automation is about 15x more powerful than it was
>> before.
>>
>> * New key commands for Cut head/tail, selections (great for post)
>>
>> * Free routing: any group or fx to any other, plus post fader routing
>>
>> * Media Bay (I hear it's enhanced from Cubase 4 and works quite well
>> for an
>> FX database - also great for post)
>>
>> * VST3 - all included plugins are VST3 (biggest post advantage is
>> automatic
>> adapting to multichannel configs - Flux plugins already do, but now VST3
>> plugins and Nuendo's stock plugins will also).
>>
>> * New logical editor looks much more powerful
>>
>> ...etc...
>>
>> I'll let you guys read the rest from Steinberg if interested.
>>
>> For post this is a great release - the new automation and key commands
>> alone
>> are worth the $249 upgrade - free routing will be a big boost for me as
>> well.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dedric
>>
--
Chris Ludwig
ADK Pro Audio
(859) 635-5762
www.adkproaudio.com
chrisl@adkproaudio.comDX is no more.
Regards,
Dedric
"EK Sound" <askme@nospam.com> wrote in message news:46f7e414$1@linux...
> Hey Dedric,
>
> Did they dump DX completely?
>
> David.
>
> Dedric Terry wrote:
>> I don't know how many users other than Lamont and I are using Nuendo, but
>> N4
>> was just released - shipping in early October:
>>
>> Highlights:
>>
>> * New automation system (complete automation panel): new modes include
>> the
>> ability to only write from an point, leaving previous sections absent of
>> automation (Virgin Territory option); fill modes, preview mode, and much
>> more. Looks like automation is about 15x more powerful than it was
>> before.
>>
>> * New key commands for Cut head/tail, selections (great for post)
>>
>> * Free routing: any group or fx to any other, plus post fader routing
>>
>> * Media Bay (I hear it's enhanced from Cubase 4 and works quite well for
>> an
>> FX database - also great for post)
>>
>> * VST3 - all included plugins are VST3 (biggest post advantage is
>> automatic
>> adapting to multichannel configs - Flux plugins already do, but now VST3
>> plugins and Nuendo's stock plugins will also).
>>
>> * New logical editor looks much more powerful
>> ...etc...
>>
>> I'll let you guys read the rest from Steinberg if interested.
>>
>> For post this is a great release - the new automation and key commands
>> alone
>> are worth the $249 upgrade - free routing will be a big boost for me as
>> well.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dedric
>>In the words of Marcel Marceau, " ."
rick wrote:
> a silent wave from here.
>
>
>
> On 24 Sep 2007 07:10:50 +1000, "steve the artguy"
> <artguy@somethingorother.net> wrote:
>
>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> "Bart" <wmn987@yahoo.om> wrote:
>>>> http://us.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/09/23/marceau.ap/index.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Long live Paris!
>> In honor of Marceau, I shall temporarily be speechless.
>for the low levels make sure you have the patchbay set to -10dBHave you looked what the patchbay inside Paris is showing up? You can
change the inputs and outputs there between -10db or +4db.
I've used Eurorack MX3242 to feed Paris for years. Wonderful mixer
with 16 direct output channels to go right into Paris.
Erling
On 25 Sep 2007 00:53:44 +1000, "Ed" <askme@email.com> wrote:
>
>Hey folks... does this sound ridiculous, or does it sound ok? I use to track/record
>straight from the instruments/mics to preamps and directly into my 8in cards.
> For the purpose of performing live, I recently purchased a behringer SL3242
>(24 channel mixer) and I have the main outs going back into 2 channels on
>the mixer. If you are familiar with this mixer, there are no direct outs
>(like I am use to for multi-track recording) and I have to use the Sub 1
>thru 4. I am so disappointed with the levels I could cry. Levels within
>the mixer are good, but what is going out the subs into Paris is so low.
> I have the sub levels almost max'd, but still I have to open each .paf file
>after recording and increase about 10db. Playback is ok... except again
>the levels I am sending to Paris. My question is... would it be inappropriate
>to put a 4 channel preamp between this mixer and Paris... I need better
>levels bad and I am getting desperate. I love this mixer except for this
>reason. I would have never purchased it if I knew it didn't have direct
>outs. I don't like the subgroup crap, but I have no choice but to use it...
> Has anyone else run into this kind of problem? Of course if I use a preamp
>between the mixer and Paris (on the 4 subgroups) I don't want to hurt my
>levels coming back into the mixer while I am recording. I am one of those
>all around performer... I do all the instruments... and my abilities are
>limited to only recording one at a time... lol.
>
>Any comments or suggestions... besides throwing away the mixer. Sorry but
>$600 is like Ft Knox to me... I am a peasant and that is many months of
>savings to me...
>
>Anyone?Hi Erlilo,
That is one of the major problems with this mixer, there are no direct
outs. I have smaller mixers with direct outs and I am use to that... I
just can get decent levels from the 4 subgroups on this mixer... That is
the only way to get individual channels from this mixer.
I didn't check the level button on the 8in cards that I have and I'll check
those now that I remember that they are on there.
erlilo <erling.lovik@lyse.net> wrote:
>Have you looked what the patchbay inside Paris is showing up? You can
>change the inputs and outputs there between -10db or +4db.
>
>I've used Eurorack MX3242 to feed Paris for years. Wonderful mixer
>with 16 direct output channels to go right into Paris.
>
>Erling
>
>On 25 Sep 2007 00:53:44 +1000, "Ed" <askme@email.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Hey folks... does this sound ridiculous, or does it sound ok? I use to
track/record
>>straight from the instruments/mics to preamps and directly into my 8in
cards.
>> For the purpose of performing live, I recently purchased a behringer SL3242
>>(24 channel mixer) and I have the main outs going back into 2 channels
on
>>the mixer. If you are familiar with this mixer, there are no direct outs
>>(like I am use to for multi-track recording) and I have to use the Sub
1
>>thru 4. I am so disappointed with the levels I could cry. Levels within
>>the mixer are good, but what is going out the subs into Paris is so low.
>> I have the sub levels almost max'd, but still I have to open each .paf
file
>>after recording and increase about 10db. Playback is ok... except again
>>the levels I am sending to Paris. My question is... would it be inappropriate
>>to put a 4 channel preamp between this mixer and Paris... I need better
>>levels bad and I am getting desperate. I love this mixer except for this
>>reason. I would have never purchased it if I knew it didn't have direct
>>outs. I don't like the subgroup crap, but I have no choice but to use
it...
>> Has anyone else run into this kind of problem? Of course if I use a preamp
>>between the mixer and Paris (on the 4 subgroups) I don't want to hurt my
>>levels coming back into the mixer while I am recording. I am one of those
>>all around performer... I do all the instruments... and my abilities are
>>limited to only recording one at a time... lol.
>>
>>Any comments or suggestions... besides throwing away the mixer. Sorry
but
>>$600 is like Ft Knox to me... I am a peasant and that is many months of
>>savings to me...
>>
>>Anyone?If your mixer has channel inserts, you can get individual channel preamp signals
from there. Just use the send side of an insert cable or plug a 1/4 cable
halfway in the insert jack to the input of paris. And ditto on checking
the input level setting in the patch bay.
"Ed" <askme@email.com> wrote:
>
>Hi Erlilo,
>
> That is one of the major problems with this mixer, there are no direct
>outs. I have smaller mixers with direct outs and I am use to that... I
>just can get decent levels from the 4 subgroups on this mixer... That is
>the only way to get individual channels from this mixer.
>
> I didn't check the level button on the 8in cards that I have and I'll
check
>those now that I remember that they are on there.
>
>erlilo <erling.lovik@lyse.net> wrote:
>>Have you looked what the patchbay inside Paris is showing up? You can
>>change the inputs and outputs there between -10db or +4db.
>>
>>I've used Eurorack MX3242 to feed Paris for years. Wonderful mixer
>>with 16 direct output channels to go right into Paris.
>>
>>Erling
>>
>>On 25 Sep 2007 00:53:44 +1000, "Ed" <askme@email.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Hey folks... does this sound ridiculous, or does it sound ok? I use to
>track/record
>>>straight from the instruments/mics to preamps and directly into my 8in
>cards.
>>> For the purpose of performing live, I recently purchased a behringer
SL3242
>>>(24 channel mixer) and I have the main outs going back into 2 channels
>on
>>>the mixer. If you are familiar with this mixer, there are no direct outs
>>>(like I am use to for multi-track recording) and I have to use the Sub
>1
>>>thru 4. I am so disappointed with the levels I could cry. Levels within
>>>the mixer are good, but what is going out the subs into Paris is so low.
>>> I have the sub levels almost max'd, but still I have to open each .paf
>file
>>>after recording and increase about 10db. Playback is ok... except again
>>>the levels I am sending to Paris. My question is... would it be inappropriate
>>>to put a 4 channel preamp between this mixer and Paris... I need better
>>>levels bad and I am getting desperate. I love this mixer except for this
>>>reason. I would have never purchased it if I knew it didn't have direct
>>>outs. I don't like the subgroup crap, but I have no choice but to use
>it...
>>> Has anyone else run into this kind of problem? Of course if I use a
preamp
>>>between the mixer and Paris (on the 4 subgroups) I don't want to hurt
my
>>>levels coming back into the mixer while I am recording. I am one of those
>>>all around performer... I do all the instruments... and my abilities are
>>>limited to only recording one at a time... lol.
>>>
>>>Any comments
|
|
|
|
| Re: Paris Perspective: [message #88259 is a reply to message #88228] |
Tue, 17 July 2007 19:15 |
jp
Messages: 65
Registered: June 2005
|
Member |
|
|
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---=_linux46f86942--"Chris Ludwig" <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote in message
news:46f7e217$1@linux...
> HI DJ,
>
> From the video it looks like any audio, group, fx or VST connection can be
> routed to any other. Not sure if it does all the same stuff but I beet you
> it i way easier to figure out how to do it. :)
>
>
> Chris
>
If I can't assign an input to multiple outputs I will die.;o)
"Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:46f7fdab@linux...
> Dude, thanks for that tip. :-)
>
> DJ wrote:
>> "Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote in message news:46f72872@linux...
>>> Some of my favorite plugs are free: SIR, Classic Chorus, ALL my Delay
>>> plugs, Crystal. It's a good time to be alive.
>>>
>>> I like to buy things for my wife.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I buy all my gear for my wife.
>>
>> ;o)
>>Awesome Mike! Where do we send a Paypal pmt?
W. Mark Wilson
"Mike Audet" <mike@.....> wrote in message news:46f86942$1@linux...
>
> Yo, yo!
>
> Attached is a new version of the FreakQ!
>
> New in this release (both mono and stereo versions):
>
> - All Mid and Hi Shelf EQs now have selectable frequency points.
> - I've added output metering to check for too much gain building up from
> boosting bands (and because meters look cool).
> - The low shelf has been removed because of a problem in the dsp code that
> I don't know how to fix that caused massive distortion when it was used.
>
>
> I had hoped to make this eq fully parametric by having a width control,
> but
> it either isn't possible, or I just don't understand the math going on in
> the algo enough to make it happen. A friend of mine who is far better in
> math than I am has offered to look it over. If there is a breakthrough,
> I'll implement it.
>
> Let me know what you think!
>
> All the best,
> Mike
>
>
>
>Does anyone know of an EQ plugin that can go up to 32khz (a la'
the Massenburg hardware units)? I'm experimenting with
something & need an EQ plug that can boost or cut up in that
range.
TIA.
NeilThad, what ar you talking about? please explain.
"And Edmund walked over with some new plug-in group's marketing stuff. It
looked EXACTLY like PARIS"..
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>I forget which trade show it was, but at one of the ones I went to in the
>go-go 90's when I was an audio writer I stopped by the E-mu booth (the Ensoniq
>sale was still pretty recent) to talk to SSC and Edmund. Brian T was there
>and it was all a big happy family. We all thought then that E-mu would be
>a great thing for the platform, some extra cash, a little more stability
>in the business relationship, a high profile name with more space in retail
>stores. Things looked peachy. And Edmund walked over with some new plug-in
>group's marketing stuff.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Paris Perspective: [message #88260 is a reply to message #88226] |
Tue, 17 July 2007 19:16 |
jp
Messages: 65
Registered: June 2005
|
Member |
|
|
It looked EXACTLY like PARIS. We were all saying,
>'Damn, PARIS must be doing something right if it's getting ripped off.'
>
>Little did we know . . .
>
>TCB
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>
>>LoL!! Man what gives!! Did SSC have the market cornered on DAW interface
>graphics
>>and color?
>>
>>"Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>That would be my guess - a German thing.....
>>>
>>>....hmmm, so what explains ProTools' office cubical grey and spreadsheet
>>
>>>layout? A Silicon valley programmer thing? ;-)
>>>
>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:46f807e8$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> Iwish they made the interface "perkier" :) The very business like Gothic
>>
>>>> look
>>>> is getting old. still to this day, Paris's Gold -harware like interface
>>is
>>>> a joy to look at.
>>>>
>>>> To be fair, I'm not all that knocked out about Logic 8's interface.
It
>>
>>>> must
>>>> be a German thing. :)
>>>>
>>>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>>>I don't know how many users other than Lamont and I are using Nuendo,
>>but
>>>> N4
>>>>>was just released - shipping in early October:
>>>>>
>>>>>Highlights:
>>>>>
>>>>>* New automation system (complete automation panel): new modes include
>>the
>>>>>ability to only write from an point, leaving previous sections absent
>>of
>>>>>automation (Virgin Territory option); fill modes, preview mode, and
much
>>>>>more. Looks like automation is about 15x more powerful than it was
>>>>>before.
>>>>>
>>>>>* New key commands for Cut head/tail, selections (great for post)
>>>>>
>>>>>* Free routing: any group or fx to any other, plus post fader routing
>>>>>
>>>>>* Media Bay (I hear it's enhanced from Cubase 4 and works quite well
>for
>>>> an
>>>>>FX database - also great for post)
>>>>>
>>>>>* VST3 - all included plugins are VST3 (biggest post advantage is
>>>>>automatic
>>>>>adapting to multichannel configs - Flux plugins already do, but now
VST3
>>>>>plugins and Nuendo's stock plugins will also).
>>>>>
>>>>>* New logical editor looks much more powerful
>>>>>
>>>>>...etc...
>>>>>
>>>>>I'll let you guys read the rest from Steinberg if interested.
>>>>>
>>>>>For post this is a great release - the new automation and key commands
>>
>>>>>alone
>>>>>are worth the $249 upgrade - free routing will be a big boost for me
>as
>>>>>well.
>>>>>
>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>Dedric
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>Hi Mark,
Donations are always welcome. :) Thanks so much for offering. It's really
great to hear that I'm making a real contribution to the community. I was
a little afraid I was too late.
You can donate via paypal with my email address: mike AT mikeaudet dot com.
All the best!
Mike
"W. Mark Wilson" <xpam_mark@avidrecording> wrote:
>Awesome Mike! Where do we send a Paypal pmt?
>
>W. Mark Wilson
>
>"Mike Audet" <mike@.....> wrote in message news:46f86942$1@linux...
>>
>> Yo, yo!
>>
>> Attached is a new version of the FreakQ!
>>
>> New in this release (both mono and stereo versions):
>>
>> - All Mid and Hi Shelf EQs now have selectable frequency points.
>> - I've added output metering to check for too much gain building up from
>> boosting bands (and because meters look cool).
>> - The low shelf has been removed because of a problem in the dsp code
that
>> I don't know how to fix that caused massive distortion when it was used.
>>
>>
>> I had hoped to make this eq fully parametric by having a width control,
>> but
>> it either isn't possible, or I just don't understand the math going on
in
>> the algo enough to make it happen. A friend of mine who is far better
in
>> math than I am has offered to look it over. If there is a breakthrough,
>> I'll implement it.
>>
>> Let me know what you think!
>>
>> All the best,
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Hi Tom,
I'm so glad to hear that this stuff will be useful to you.
Donations are always welcome!
Paypal address: mike AT mikeaudet dot com.
I'm actually planning to set up a mini site to host this stuff. I registered
ensoniq.ca, but I'm just so busy that it may take a little while to get to
it. I'd rather spend my time working on a new plug. :)
Speaking of new plugs, there are some unreleased algos in the code Chuck
posted. I'll be turning my attention to those next. I can't promise anything
because if there are dsp code bugs, there's not much I can do. But, I'm
very hopeful!
All the best,
Mike
"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>Really. Mike this is really great stuff.
>I can't wait to hear these two updates.
>
>I will donate if there is a way to do it.
>Tom
>
>
> "W. Mark Wilson" <xpam_mark@avidrecording> wrote in message =
>news:46f87635@linux...
> Awesome Mike! Where do we send a Paypal pmt?
>
> W. Mark Wilson
>
> "Mike Audet" <mike@.....> wrote in message news:46f86942$1@linux...
> >
> > Yo, yo!
> >
> > Attached is a new version of the FreakQ!
> >
> > New in this release (both mono and stereo versions):
> >
> > - All Mid and Hi Shelf EQs now have selectable frequency points.
> > - I've added output metering to check for too much gain building up
=
>from
> > boosting bands (and because meters look cool).
> > - The low shelf has been removed because of a problem in the dsp =
>code that
> > I don't know how to fix that caused massive distortion when it was =
>used.
> >
> >
> > I had hoped to make this eq fully parametric by having a width =
>control,=20
> > but
> > it either isn't possible, or I just don't understand the math going
=
>on in
> > the algo enough to make it happen. A friend of mine who is far =
>better in
> > math than I am has offered to look it over. If there is a =
>breakthrough,
> > I'll implement it.
> >
> > Let me know what you think!
> >
> > All the best,
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >=20
>
>
>
>
>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
>http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><HTML><HEAD>
><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR>
><STYLE></STYLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Really. Mike this is really great =
>
>stuff.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I can't wait to hear these =
>two=20
>updates.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I will donate if there is a way to do=20
>it.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV> </DIV>
><BLOCKQUOTE=20
>style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> <DIV>"W. Mark Wilson" <<A=20
> =
>href=3D"mailto:xpam_mark@avidrecording">xpam_mark@avidrecording</A>> =
>wrote in=20
> message <A =
>href=3D"news:46f87635@linux">news:46f87635@linux</A>...</DIV>Awesome=20
> Mike! Where do we send a Paypal pmt?<BR><BR>W. Mark =
>Wilson<BR><BR>"Mike=20
> Audet" <mike@.....> wrote in message <A=20
> =
>href=3D"news:46f86942$1@linux">news:46f86942$1@linux</A>...<BR>><BR>&g=
>t; Yo,=20
> yo!<BR>><BR>> Attached is a new version of the =
>FreakQ!<BR>><BR>>=20
> New in this release (both mono and stereo =
>versions):<BR>><BR>> -=20
> All Mid and Hi Shelf EQs now have selectable frequency points.<BR>> =
>- I've=20
> added output metering to check for too much gain building up =
>from<BR>>=20
> boosting bands (and because meters look cool).<BR>> - The low =
>shelf=20
> has been removed because of a problem in the dsp code that<BR>> I =
>don't=20
> know how to fix that caused massive distortion when it was=20
> used.<BR>><BR>><BR>> I had hoped to make this eq fully =
>parametric by=20
> having a width control, <BR>> but<BR>> it either isn't possible, =
>or I=20
> just don't understand the math going on in<BR>> the algo enough to =
>make it=20
> happen. A friend of mine who is far better in<BR>> math than I am =
>has=20
> offered to look it over. If there is a breakthrough,<BR>> =
>I'll=20
> implement it.<BR>><BR>> Let me know what you =
>think!<BR>><BR>> All=20
> the best,<BR>> Mike<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> =
><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
><DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR><BR>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, =
>and=20
>you?<BR><A=20
>href=3D"http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html">http://www.polesoft.com/refer=
>.html</A> </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
>Those are called Sends.
>>
>
>If I can't assign an input to multiple outputs I will die.
>
>"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:46f8edca$1@linux...
>
> Those are called Sends.
>
>>>
>>
>>If I can't assign an input to multiple outputs I will die.
>>
>>
>
In Reaper I can take an input signal and route it simultaneously to a mono
output and to the stereo bus. That's what I want to be able to do in Cubase.
;o)On 24 Sep 2007 07:10:50 +1000, "steve the artguy"
<artguy@somethingorother.net> wrote:
>
>
>In honor of Marceau, I shall temporarily be speechless.
Wouldn't it be more appropriate to have a moment of noise in his
honor?
pab"LaMont" <jjdpro@funk.com> wrote:
>
>Thad, what ar you talking about? please explain.
>
>"And Edmund walked over with some new plug-in group's marketing stuff. It
>looked EXACTLY like PARIS"..
Could it be...???
http://www.kjaerhusaudio.com/gold-series.php"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Ed" <AskMe@email.com> wrote:
>>Ok... I hooked it up as said and it is not gonna work for me... I have
>
>>absolutely no controls on the mixer for the channel being sent to Paris.
> I
>>can't control the levels or anything... it is what it is! I am getting
>
>>better levels, but I have to control the levels in Paris. I am wanting
>to
>>control the levels at the mixer AND Paris... I am not sure that is possible
>
>>with these i/o inserts on the mixer... How depressing....
>>
>
>Ed, you should be able to set the level going in to Paris with the Mic trim
>knob on the Behringer. That is usually the top knob.
>
>I hope this helps.
>
>James
>
I believe on a Behringer it is called Mic GAIN, not trim.
>>
>>"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:qt1gf3hds2bb7i0l5gia1rbeim7il4pu73@4ax.com...
>>> you need must plain trs plug and insert the 1/4" jack to it's first
>>> ring position (you will feel it stop. if you push further the jack
>>> will then go into the second ring and stop.
>>>
>>> with your y cables one is wired to the tip ring and the other is wired
>>> to the second band. just plug the two ring single end into paris and
>>> the tip wired end into the mixer.
>>>
>>> On 25 Sep 2007 04:48:19 +1000, "Ed" <askme@email.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Ok... I think I am following this... and I just pulled up the mixer manual
>>>>about each channel insert. But it is still confusing me. I need a
>>>>diagrams,
>>>>not words... lol. The manual states:
>>>>
>>>>"All mono input channels are equipped with insert points. They can also
>>>>be used as a pre-EQ direct outputs, without signal flow interruption.
> For
>>>>this you need a cable with a 1/4" TS connector on the recorder/effects
>
>>>>processor
>>>>end, and a bridged stereo 1/4" TRS connector on the console end (tip
and
>>>>ring interconnected)."
>>>>
>>>>I think I understand that with my Hosa insert cables, I plu the single
>
>>>>black
>>>>side into the Paris, but I am confused what to do with the 'Y' end...
> it
>>>>states to interconnect them. How do I do that? There is only one 1/4
>
>>>>input
>>>>and the 'Y' cable has 2 plugs. Can someone help?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Cujo" <chris@applemanstudio.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Your mixer should also have aux sends and returns. Those are more for
>
>>>>>external
>>>>>FX.
>>>>>The inserts are often used for sending to a cpompressor or the like.
>
>>>>>just
>>>>>use the send side of the patch cable out to paris Actaully if I recall
>
>>>>>correctly
>>>>>on my old mackie you could use a regular 1/4" cable but don't click
it
>
>>>>>all
>>>>>the way into the insert jack. I could be dreaming that too though.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Ed" <askme@email.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Paul,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Me no understand... again, I am totally spoiled with direct outs
>and
>>>>>I
>>>>>>am not sure what you mean. I have some insert 'Y' cables, but not
sure
>>>>>how
>>>>>>to use them in this way. I plug in the "send" side to the insert at
>the
>>>>>>mixer channel, or into a channel on Paris? You confused me...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I see that each of the 24 channels on my mixer has a i/o insert,
but
>>>>I
>>>>>>thought they were for using external effects. I didn't know I could
>use
>>>>>>these as direct outs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Looking at the insert cable, the 'Y' side has "tip" and I think
>>>>>> "Sleeve".
>>>>>> The other end is just black. Do I plug the 'Y' tip and sleeve to
>>>>>> Channel's
>>>>>>1 and 2 of the insert on the mixer, and then the single black end into
>>>>channel
>>>>>>1 on my 8in card? Is that how I do that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"pauln" <pn@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>If your mixer has channel inserts, you can get individual channel
>>>>>>>preamp
>>>>>>signals
>>>>>>>from there. Just use the send side of an insert cable or plug a 1/4
>
>>>>>>>cable
>>>>>>>halfway in the insert jack to the input of paris. And ditto on
>>>>>>>checking
>>>>>>>the input level setting in the patch bay.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Ed" <askme@email.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Hi Erlilo,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That is one of the major problems with this mixer, there are no
>
>>>>>>>> direct
>>>>>>>>outs. I have smaller mixers with direct outs and I am use to that...
>>>>>
>>>>>>I
>>>>>>>>just can get decent levels from the 4 subgroups on this mixer...
>That
>>>>>>is
>>>>>>>>the only way to get individual channels from this mixer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I didn't check the level button on the 8in cards that I have and
>
>>>>>>>> I'll
>>>>>>>check
>>>>>>>>those now that I remember that they are on there.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>erlilo <erling.lovik@lyse.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>Have you looked what the patchbay inside Paris is showing up? You
>can
>>>>>>>>>change the inputs and outputs there between -10db or +4db.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I've used Eurorack MX3242 to feed Paris for years. Wonderful mixer
>>>>>>>>>with 16 direct output channels to go right into Paris.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Erling
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On 25 Sep 2007 00:53:44 +1000, "Ed" <askme@email.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Hey folks... does this sound ridiculous, or does it sound ok?
I
>use
>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>track/record
>>>>>>>>>>straight from the instruments/mics to preamps and directly into
>my
>>>>8in
>>>>>>>>cards.
>>>>>>>>>> For the purpose of performing live, I recently purchased a
>>>>>>>>>> behringer
>>>>>>>SL3242
>>>>>>>>>>(24 channel mixer) and I have the main outs going back into 2
>>>>>>>>>>channels
>>>>>>>>on
>>>>>>>>>>the mixer. If you are familiar with this mixer, there are no direct
>>>>>>outs
>>>>>>>>>>(like I am use to for multi-track recording) and I have to use
the
>>>>Sub
>>>>>>>>1
>>>>>>>>>>thru 4. I am so disappointed with the levels I could cry. Levels
>>>>within
>>>>>>>>>>the mixer are good, but what is going out the subs into Paris is
>so
>>>>>low.
>>>>>>>>>> I have the sub levels almost max'd, but still I have to open each
>>>>paf
>>>>>>>>file
>>>>>>>>>>after recording and increase about 10db. Playback is ok... except
>>>>again
>>>>>>>>>>the levels I am sending to Paris. My question is... would it be
>
>>>>>>>>>>inappropriate
>>>>>>>>>>to put a 4 channel preamp between this mixer and Paris... I need
>
>>>>>>>>>>better
>>>>>>>>>>levels bad and I am getting desperate. I love this mixer except
>for
>>>>>>this
>>>>>>>>>>reason. I would have never purchased it if I knew it didn't have
>
>>>>>>>>>>direct
>>>>>>>>>>outs. I don't like the subgroup crap, but I have no choice but
>to
>>>>use
>>>>>>>>it...
>>>>>>>>>> Has anyone else run into this kind of problem? Of course if I
>use
>>>>>a
>>>>>>>preamp
>>>>>>>>>>between the mixer and Paris (on the 4 subgroups) I don't want to
>
>>>>>>>>>>hurt
>>>>>>>my
>>>>>>>>>>levels coming back into the mixer while I am recording. I am one
>of
>>>>>>those
>>>>>>>>>>all around performer... I do all the instruments... and my abilities
>>>>>>are
>>>>>>>>>>limited to only recording one at a time... lol.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Any comments or suggestions... besides throwing away the mixer.
>
>>>>>>>>>>Sorry
>>>>>>>>but
>>>>>>>>>>$600 is like Ft Knox to me... I am a peasant and that is many
>>>>>>>>>>months
>>>>>>>of
>>>>>>>>>>savings to me...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Anyone?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>"Ed" <AskMe@email.com> wrote:
>Ok... I hooked it up as said and it is not gonna work for me... I have
>absolutely no controls on the mixer for the channel being sent to Paris.
I
>can't control the levels or anything... it is what it is! I am getting
>better levels, but I have to control the levels in Paris. I am wanting
to
>control the levels at the mixer AND Paris... I am not sure that is possible
>with these i/o inserts on the mixer... How depressing....
>
Ed, you should be able to set the level going in to Paris with the Mic trim
knob on the Behringer. That is usually the top knob.
I hope this helps.
James
>
>"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:qt1gf3hds2bb7i0l5gia1rbeim7il4pu73@4ax.com...
>> you need must plain trs plug and insert the 1/4" jack to it's first
>> ring position (you will feel it stop. if you push further the jack
>> will then go into the second ring and stop.
>>
>> with your y cables one is wired to the tip ring and the other is wired
>> to the second band. just plug the two ring single end into paris and
>> the tip wired end into the mixer.
>>
>> On 25 Sep 2007 04:48:19 +1000, "Ed" <askme@email.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Ok... I think I am following this... and I just pulled up the mixer manual
>>>about each channel insert. But it is still confusing me. I need a
>>>diagrams,
>>>not words... lol. The manual states:
>>>
>>>"All mono input channels are equipped with insert points. They can also
>>>be used as a pre-EQ direct outputs, without signal flow interruption.
For
>>>this you need a cable with a 1/4" TS connector on the recorder/effects
>>>processor
>>>end, and a bridged stereo 1/4" TRS connector on the console end (tip and
>>>ring interconnected)."
>>>
>>>I think I understand that with my Hosa insert cables, I plu the single
>>>black
>>>side into the Paris, but I am confused what to do with the 'Y' end...
it
>>>states to interconnect them. How do I do that? There is only one 1/4
>>>input
>>>and the 'Y' cable has 2 plugs. Can someone help?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Cujo" <chris@applemanstudio.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Your mixer should also have aux sends and returns. Those are more for
>>>>external
>>>>FX.
>>>>The inserts are often used for sending to a cpompressor or the like.
>>>>just
>>>>use the send side of the patch cable out to paris Actaully if I recall
>>>>correctly
>>>>on my old mackie you could use a regular 1/4" cable but don't click it
>>>>all
>>>>the way into the insert jack. I could be dreaming that too though.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Ed" <askme@email.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>Paul,
>>>>>
>>>>> Me no understand... again, I am totally spoiled with direct outs
and
>>>>I
>>>>>am not sure what you mean. I have some insert 'Y' cables, but not sure
>>>>how
>>>>>to use them in this way. I plug in the "send" side to the insert at
the
>>>>>mixer channel, or into a channel on Paris? You confused me...
>>>>>
>>>>> I see that each of the 24 channels on my mixer has a i/o insert, but
>>>I
>>>>>thought they were for using external effects. I didn't know I could
use
>>>>>these as direct outs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Looking at the insert cable, the 'Y' side has "tip" and I think
>>>>> "Sleeve".
>>>>> The other end is just black. Do I plug the 'Y' tip and sleeve to
>>>>> Channel's
>>>>>1 and 2 of the insert on the mixer, and then the single black end into
>>>channel
>>>>>1 on my 8in card? Is that how I do that?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"pauln" <pn@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If your mixer has channel inserts, you can get individual channel
>>>>>>preamp
>>>>>signals
>>>>>>from there. Just use the send side of an insert cable or plug a 1/4
>>>>>>cable
>>>>>>halfway in the insert jack to the input of paris. And ditto on
>>>>>>checking
>>>>>>the input level setting in the patch bay.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Ed" <askme@email.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hi Erlilo,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is one of the major problems with this mixer, there are no
>>>>>>> direct
>>>&
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