Home » The Bin » Lester The Nightfly » Free for all for illegal immigrants!
| Free for all for illegal immigrants! [message #84721] |
Thu, 17 May 2007 14:25  |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
t; security
>> benefits. They didn't even pay in to social security. Some of these
>> people
>> come in to our country just to be able to collect benefits and send the
>> money
>> back to their home lands. In some cases this money has reached terrorist.
>> Our politicians are selling us all out again and giving your country way
>> at a vary high cost to you! None of us owe these people.
>>
>> Illegals are costing all of us. Illegals sponging off our tax dollars,
>> and
>> having our cost of living go up as a result of hospitalization cost,
>> schooling,
>> law enforcement costs, housing cost, etc. It's no different than having
>> a bunch of them break in to your house and eat your food, run your
>> telephone
>> bill up, run your rent up, and spend your money. These people have broken
>> in to our country. They don't have a right to citizenship. They have
a
>> right to be deported. We need to push this invasion of our country back
>> now, and we have a right to do that.
>>
>> There are many of the illegals come in to our country because they are
>> criminals
>> and can't come in to our country legally. With others, we have no access
>> to their past criminal records. yet they are in our country, and take
our
>> jobs.
>>
>> We already have legal immigration, why should we change our law to
>> accommodate
>> a bunch of law breakers? People are out of work here in the US, letting
>> a bunch of people flood in to our country and take our jobs is hurting
us.
>> It brings wages down.
>>
>> This idiot president says nobody wants those jobs. Nobody wants those
>> jobs
>> because they don't pay well, and they don't pay well because we have
>> illegal
>> immigrants working those jobs for next to nothing. Nobody is going to
pay
>> $12.00 to $20.00 an hour if they can get an illegal for $5.00 or $6.00
an
>> hour and not have to pay taxes and benefits. It's nice for the president
>> and his buddies to have Cooks, nannies, gardeners, landscapers, clothes
>> launders,
>> fruit pickers, and ranch hands for cheap. How many of you have people
>> like
>> that working for you cheap? Do you have a ranch hand? It's nice for
the
>> president, the Kennedy's and the Heinz family, but it's cheating WE THE
>> PEOPLE
>> out of what our parents worked so hard for. It's now a free for all for
>> foreigners. They are selling us out, giving it all away at our expense
>> and
>> stealing our American Dream. Enough is enough!
>>
>> It's time the people that were born here have a say. It's time the people
>> that were born here have first rights. It's time people and there
>> families
>> that have payed in to the taxes for years get some support when they are
>> out of work instead of the foreigners that don't belong here. The
>> illegals
>> are sucking up the aid and resources. They are pouring in to our country
>> by the millions, and there is no end in sight. They are a huge burden
on
>> all of us. It has nearly bankrupted some states. We need to get this
>> stopped,
>> not hand them citizenship. We are going to have a huge flood of people
>> trying
>> to cross our borders if they reward them with citizenship. With that
will
>> come terrorists.
>>
>> These politicians are selling us all out for their own selfish political
>> gain. They are selling off the wealth of the US wholesale to the rest
of
>> the world. They are letting the third world flood in to our country.
It
>> is killing the middle class. It is creating the haves and the have nots.
>> This has been planned for years by the members of the Trilateral
>> Commission,
>> The world banks and the CFR. They are intentionally lowering our standard
>> of living. Their goal is that the elite rich will rule all of us
>> economically.
>> They want to rule the world.
>>
>> Were hearing that huge sucking sound here in Michigan. As the auto
>> industry
>> goes, so does the whole country. In time it will catch up to your state
>> too. We have around 12% unemployment in my part of Michigan. It's great
>> that you can buy a two dollar rubber hammer from China, but we are paying
>> $3.30 plus a gallon for gas. Who thinks this is smart.
>>
>> Soon you wont have a choice, you will only be able to buy a Cadillac that
>> is made in China. Everything will be made somewhere else before you know
>> it. We have unfair trade that is killing manufacturing here in the US.
>> Who do you think made those deals? Who do you think sold us out? The
>> answer
>> is the idiot politicians we keep voting in to office. As long as the
two
>> parties keep pointing fingers at each other, they will keep us divided,
>> and
>> weak! This is how they stay in power! We are being sold out by them
>> right
>> now. It's time to tell them not to support this bad policy of giving
>> illegals
>> citizenship. It's time to tell them, that they will be in the
>> unemployment
>> line if they make this law.
>>
>> We need to put a moratorium on immigration until we can get control of
it.
>> Somebody said that in 1991-92, but nobody listened. We got 911 as a result
>> of week policies on immigration. When will we wake up to the truth?
A
>> hand
>> full of British sailors supposedly cross in to Iranian waters and it's
a
>> international incident. Tens of thousands illegally cross our borders
a
>> day and nothing is really done about it. Some people need to get fired
>> from
>> their jobs, but we just keep voting these people back in to to office
to
>> sell us out.
>>
>> We need to put unemployed americans back to work. We need to put
>> unemployed
>> Americans on our borders to guard us. We need to put unemployed americans
>> to work at our sea ports to check shipping containers, and charge the
>> Chinese
>> for this service. I'm tired of hearing that we don't have enough people
>> to handle these kind of problems or tasks. We need to put more americans
>> to work at our air ports to handle security. There is plenty of work
that
>> would pay a decent wage if we kicked the illegals out of our country.
No
>> more cheap labor for big corporations at all of our expense.
>>
>> These illegal immigrants they want to make citizens will sway entire
>> states
>> and parts of the country in future elections. This amnesty will create
a
>> huge voting block. These people will rule our country in a short time.
>> It would be like adding another state that would always be the deciding
>> vote
>> in every election in the future. It's a risk we shouldn't take. The
>> majority
>> of them have come from countr
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| Re: Free for all for illegal immigrants! [message #84722 is a reply to message #84721] |
Thu, 17 May 2007 14:40  |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
ies that have corrupt governments. Why do
>> you
>> think they can never get it together in their countries? I believe we
>> would
>> end up with the same kind of corrupt government in time if we allow them
>> to become citizens. We don't owe these people a free ride.
>>
>> It's time to speak up now or be bulldozed under. Call or write your
>> representatives.
>> I strongly urge you to take the time now to contact your representative
>> about this issue. The American dream and your standard of living are
>> about
>> to be given away buy the politicians. Let them know who will be in the
>> unemployment
>> line next if they do this. The future of America depends on you now.
>> It's
>> time to get this stopped! We need to end this free for all here in
>> america
>> that these politicians have created. Don't let them sell us out!
>
>What in the world makes you think that suddenly these people are going to
start going by the rules now? They didn't go by the rules to begin with!
Clinton passed laws back in the 90s that stated that if illegals didn't
come forward they would be deported and couldn't ever return. These people
payed no attention to it. They've had their chance to do the right thing.
It's time to take this seriously.
What in the world makes you think that suddenly these people are going to
start going by the rules now? They didn't go by the rules to begin with!
Clinton passed laws back in the 90s that stated that if illegals didn't
come forward they would be deported and couldn't ever return. These people
payed no attention to it.
It's time to take this seriously.
Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>
> From the article:
>"The proposed agreement would allow illegal immigrants to come forward
>and obtain a "Z visa" and - after paying fees and a $5,000 fine -
>ultimately get on track for permanent residency, which could take
>between eight and 13 years. Heads of household would have to return to
>their home countries first."
>
>I don't know if this is the best approach, but it's not exactly a "free
>for all" as you claim. There are millions of illegal immigrants
>currently living and working in the USA. This plan proposes to charge
>them billions of dollars to have a chance to stay here legally.
>
>Many of them already have social security and taxes withheld, and of
>course they also pay sales taxes in states that charge sales tax. I
>don't know if the statistics will support your implication of an overall
>negative economic effect, but I doubt it. I suspect it's more likely to
>be a positive effect to have those additional working taxpayers pushing
>productivity in the USA. OTOH, the jobs argument does have some merit.
>
>What's your solution, James? And what is the cost of your solution?
>
>Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
>
>James McCloskey wrote:
>> Agreement Reached on Immigration Reform
>>
>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070517/D8P69IO00.html
>>
>>
>>
>> It's time Washington hears us all loud and clear. It's time to call and
>> write your representatives. It's nothing more than amnesty for law breakers.
>> These illegals that are in our country are sponging off our welfare systems,
>> collecting benefits, they didn't even pay in to, and costing you in tax
dollars.
>> The politicians want to pass laws to give the illegals your social security
>> benefits. They didn't even pay in to social security. Some of these
people
>> come in to our country just to be able to collect benefits and send the
money
>> back to their home lands. In some cases this money has reached terrorist.
>> Our politicians are selling us all out again and giving your country way
>> at a vary high cost to you! None of us owe these people.
>>
>> Illegals are costing all of us. Illegals sponging off our tax dollars,
and
>> having our cost of living go up as a result of hospitalization cost, schooling,
>> law enforcement costs, housing cost, etc. It's no different than having
>> a bunch of them break in to your house and eat your food, run your telephone
>> bill up, run your rent up, and spend your money. These people have broken
>> in to our country. They don't have a right to citizenship. They have
a
>> right to be deported. We need to push this invasion of our country back
>> now, and we have a right to do that.
>>
>> There are many of the illegals come in to our country because they are
criminals
>> and can't come in to our country legally. With others, we have no access
>> to their past criminal records. yet they are in our country, and take
our
>> jobs.
>>
>> We already have legal immigration, why should we change our law to accommodate
>> a bunch of law breakers? People are out of work here in the US, letting
>> a bunch of people flood in to our country and take our jobs is hurting
us.
>> It brings wages down.
>>
>> This idiot president says nobody wants those jobs. Nobody wants those
jobs
>> because they don't pay well, and they don't pay well because we have illegal
>> immigrants working those jobs for next to nothing. Nobody is going to
pay
>> $12.00 to $20.00 an hour if they can get an illegal for $5.00 or $6.00
an
>> hour and not have to pay taxes and benefits. It's nice for the president
>> and his buddies to have Cooks, nannies, gardeners, landscapers, clothes
launders,
>> fruit pickers, and ranch hands for cheap. How many of you have people
like
>> that working for you cheap? Do you have a ranch hand? It's nice for
the
>> president, the Kennedy's and the Heinz family, but it's cheating WE THE
PEOPLE
>> out of what our parents worked so hard for. It's now a free for all for
>> foreigners. They are selling us out, giving it all away at our expense
and
>> stealing our American Dream. Enough is enough!
>>
>> It's time the people that were born here have a say. It's time the people
>> that were born here have first rights. It's time people and there families
>> that have payed in to the taxes for years get some support when they are
>> out of work instead of the foreigners that don't belong here. The illegals
>> are sucking up the aid and resources. They are pouring in to our country
>> by the millions, and there is no end in sight. They are a huge burden
on
>> all of us. It has nearly bankrupted some states. We need to get this
stopped,
>> not hand them citizenship. We are going to have a huge flood of people
trying
>> to cross our borders if they reward them with citizenship. With that
will
>> come terrorists.
>>
>> These politicians are selling us all out for their own selfish political
>> gain. They are selling off the wealth of the US wholesale to the rest
of
>> the world. They are letting the third world flood in to our country.
It
>> is killing the middle class. It is creating the haves and the have nots.
>> This has been planned for years by the members of the Trilateral Commission,
>> The world banks and the CFR. They are intentionally lowering our standard
>> of living. Their goal is that the elite rich will rule all of us economically.
>> They want to rule the world.
>>
>> Were hearing that huge sucking sound here in Michigan. As the auto industry
>> goes, so does the whole country. In time it will catch up to your state
>> too. We have around 12% unemployment in my part of Michigan. It's great
>> that you can buy a two dollar rubber hammer from China, but we are paying
>> $3.30 plus a gallon for gas. Who thinks this is smart.
>>
>> Soon you wont have a choice, you will only be able to buy a Cadillac that
>> is made in China. Everything will be made somewhere else before you know
>> it. We have unfair trade that is killing manufacturing here in the US.
>> Who do you think made those deals? Who do you think sold us out? The
answer
>> is the idiot politicians we keep voting in to office. As long as the
two
>> parties keep pointing fingers at each other, they will keep us divided,
and
>> weak! This is how they stay in power! We are being sold out by them
right
>> now. It's time to tell them not to support this bad policy of giving
illegals
>> citizenship. It's time to tell them, that they will be in the unemployment
>> line if they make this law.
>>
>> We need to put a moratorium on immigration until we can get control of
it.
|
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| Re: Free for all for illegal immigrants! [message #84723 is a reply to message #84721] |
Thu, 17 May 2007 14:43 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
/>
>> Somebody said that in 1991-92, but nobody listened. We got 911 as a result
>> of week policies on immigration. When will we wake up to the truth?
A hand
>> full of British sailors supposedly cross in to Iranian waters and it's
a
>> international incident. Tens of thousands illegally cross our borders
a
>> day and nothing is really done about it. Some people need to get fired
from
>> their jobs, but we just keep voting these people back in to to office
to
>> sell us out.
>>
>> We need to put unemployed americans back to work. We need to put unemployed
>> Americans on our borders to guard us. We need to put unemployed americans
>> to work at our sea ports to check shipping containers, and charge the
Chinese
>> for this service. I'm tired of hearing that we don't have enough people
>> to handle these kind of problems or tasks. We need to put more americans
>> to work at our air ports to handle security. There is plenty of work
that
>> would pay a decent wage if we kicked the illegals out of our country.
No
>> more cheap labor for big corporations at all of our expense.
>>
>> These illegal immigrants they want to make citizens will sway entire states
>> and parts of the country in future elections. This amnesty will create
a
>> huge voting block. These people will rule our country in a short time.
>> It would be like adding another state that would always be the deciding
vote
>> in every election in the future. It's a risk we shouldn't take. The
majority
>> of them have come from countries that have corrupt governments. Why do
you
>> think they can never get it together in their countries? I believe we
would
>> end up with the same kind of corrupt government in time if we allow them
>> to become citizens. We don't owe these people a free ride.
>>
>> It's time to speak up now or be bulldozed under. Call or write your representatives.
>> I strongly urge you to take the time now to contact your representative
>> about this issue. The American dream and your standard of living are
about
>> to be given away buy the politicians. Let them know who will be in the
unemployment
>> line next if they do this. The future of America depends on you now.
It's
>> time to get this stopped! We need to end this free for all here in america
>> that these politicians have created. Don't let them sell us out!Wow, what happened??? I'm repeating myself.
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>What in the world makes you think that suddenly these people are going to
>start going by the rules now? They didn't go by the rules to begin with!
> Clinton passed laws back in the 90s that stated that if illegals didn't
>come forward they would be deported and couldn't ever return. These people
>payed no attention to it. They've had their chance to do the right thing.
>
> It's time to take this seriously.
>
>What in the world makes you think that suddenly these people are going to
>start going by the rules now? They didn't go by the rules to begin with!
> Clinton passed laws back in the 90s that stated that if illegals didn't
>come forward they would be deported and couldn't ever return. These people
>payed no attention to it.
>
> It's time to take this seriously.
>
>Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>
>> From the article:
>>"The proposed agreement would allow illegal immigrants to come forward
>>and obtain a "Z visa" and - after paying fees and a $5,000 fine -
>>ultimately get on track for permanent residency, which could take
>>between eight and 13 years. Heads of household would have to return to
>>their home countries first."
>>
>>I don't know if this is the best approach, but it's not exactly a "free
>
>>for all" as you claim. There are millions of illegal immigrants
>>currently living and working in the USA. This plan proposes to charge
>>them billions of dollars to have a chance to stay here legally.
>>
>>Many of them already have social security and taxes withheld, and of
>>course they also pay sales taxes in states that charge sales tax. I
>>don't know if the statistics will support your implication of an overall
>
>>negative economic effect, but I doubt it. I suspect it's more likely to
>
>>be a positive effect to have those additional working taxpayers pushing
>
>>productivity in the USA. OTOH, the jobs argument does have some merit.
>>
>>What's your solution, James? And what is the cost of your solution?
>>
>>Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>>
>>James McCloskey wrote:
>>> Agreement Reached on Immigration Reform
>>>
>>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070517/D8P69IO00.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's time Washington hears us all loud and clear. It's time to call
and
>>> write your representatives. It's nothing more than amnesty for law breakers.
>>> These illegals that are in our country are sponging off our welfare
systems,
>>> collecting benefits, they didn't even pay in to, and costing you in tax
>dollars.
>>> The politicians want to pass laws to give the illegals your social security
>>> benefits. They didn't even pay in to social security. Some of these
>people
>>> come in to our country just to be able to collect benefits and send the
>money
>>> back to their home lands. In some cases this money has reached terrorist.
>>> Our politicians are selling us all out again and giving your country
way
>>> at a vary high cost to you! None of us owe these people.
>>>
>>> Illegals are costing all of us. Illegals sponging off our tax dollars,
>and
>>> having our cost of living go up as a result of hospitalization cost,
schooling,
>>> law enforcement costs, housing cost, etc. It's no different than having
>>> a bunch of them break in to your house and eat your food, run your telephone
>>> bill up, run your rent up, and spend your money. These people have broken
>>> in to our country. They don't have a right to citizenship. They have
>a
>>> right to be deported. We need to push this invasion of our country back
>>> now, and we have a right to do that.
>>>
>>> There are many of the illegals come in to our country because they are
>criminals
>>> and can't come in to our country legally. With others, we have no access
>>> to their past criminal records. yet they are in our country, and take
>our
>>> jobs.
>>>
>>> We already have legal immigration, why should we change our law to accommodate
>>> a bunch of law breakers? People are out of work here in the US, letting
>>> a bunch of people flood in to our country and take our jobs is hurting
>us.
>>> It brings wages down.
>>>
>>> This idiot president says nobody wants those jobs. Nobody wants those
>jobs
>>> because they don't pay well, and they don't pay well because we have
illegal
>>> immigrants working those jobs for next to nothing. Nobody is going to
>pay
>>> $12.00 to $20.00 an hour if they can get an illegal for $5.00 or $6.00
>an
>>> hour and not have to pay taxes and benefits. It's nice for the president
>>> and his buddies to have Cooks, nannies, gardeners, landscapers, clothes
>launders,
>>> fruit pickers, and ranch hands for cheap. How many of you have people
>like
>>> that working for you cheap? Do you have a ranch hand? It's nice for
>the
>>> president, the Kennedy's and the Heinz family, but it's cheating WE THE
>PEOPLE
>>> out of what our parents worked so hard for. It's now a free for all
for
>>> foreigners. They are selling us out, giving it all away at our expense
>and
>>> stealing our American Dream. Enough is enough!
>>>
>>> It's time the people that were born here have a say. It's time the people
>>> that were born here have first rights. It's time people and there families
>>> that have payed in to the taxes for years get some support when they
are
>>> out of work instead of the foreigners that don't belong here. The illegals
>>
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| Re: Free for all for illegal immigrants! [message #84724 is a reply to message #84723] |
Thu, 17 May 2007 15:00 |
Rod Lincoln
Messages: 883
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
> are sucking up the aid and resources. They are pouring in to our country
>>> by the millions, and there is no end in sight. They are a huge burden
>on
>>> all of us. It has nearly bankrupted some states. We need to get this
>stopped,
>>> not hand them citizenship. We are going to have a huge flood of people
>trying
>>> to cross our borders if they reward them with citizenship. With that
>will
>>> come terrorists.
>>>
>>> These politicians are selling us all out for their own selfish political
>>> gain. They are selling off the wealth of the US wholesale to the rest
>of
>>> the world. They are letting the third world flood in to our country.
> It
>>> is killing the middle class. It is creating the haves and the have nots.
>>> This has been planned for years by the members of the Trilateral Commission,
>>> The world banks and the CFR. They are intentionally lowering our standard
>>> of living. Their goal is that the elite rich will rule all of us economically.
>>> They want to rule the world.
>>>
>>> Were hearing that huge sucking sound here in Michigan. As the auto industry
>>> goes, so does the whole country. In time it will catch up to your state
>>> too. We have around 12% unemployment in my part of Michigan. It's great
>>> that you can buy a two dollar rubber hammer from China, but we are paying
>>> $3.30 plus a gallon for gas. Who thinks this is smart.
>>>
>>> Soon you wont have a choice, you will only be able to buy a Cadillac
that
>>> is made in China. Everything will be made somewhere else before you
know
>>> it. We have unfair trade that is killing manufacturing here in the US.
>
>>> Who do you think made those deals? Who do you think sold us out? The
>answer
>>> is the idiot politicians we keep voting in to office. As long as the
>two
>>> parties keep pointing fingers at each other, they will keep us divided,
>and
>>> weak! This is how they stay in power! We are being sold out by them
>right
>>> now. It's time to tell them not to support this bad policy of giving
>illegals
>>> citizenship. It's time to tell them, that they will be in the unemployment
>>> line if they make this law.
>>>
>>> We need to put a moratorium on immigration until we can get control
of
>it.
>>> Somebody said that in 1991-92, but nobody listened. We got 911 as a
result
>>> of week policies on immigration. When will we wake up to the truth?
>A hand
>>> full of British sailors supposedly cross in to Iranian waters and it's
>a
>>> international incident. Tens of thousands illegally cross our borders
>a
>>> day and nothing is really done about it. Some people need to get fired
>from
>>> their jobs, but we just keep voting these people back in to to office
>to
>>> sell us out.
>>>
>>> We need to put unemployed americans back to work. We need to put unemployed
>>> Americans on our borders to guard us. We need to put unemployed americans
>>> to work at our sea ports to check shipping containers, and charge the
>Chinese
>>> for this service. I'm tired of hearing that we don't have enough people
>>> to handle these kind of problems or tasks. We need to put more americans
>>> to work at our air ports to handle security. There is plenty of work
>that
>>> would pay a decent wage if we kicked the illegals out of our country.
> No
>>> more cheap labor for big corporations at all of our expense.
>>>
>>> These illegal immigrants they want to make citizens will sway entire
states
>>> and parts of the country in future elections. This amnesty will create
>a
>>> huge voting block. These people will rule our country in a short time.
>
>>> It would be like adding another state that would always be the deciding
>vote
>>> in every election in the future. It's a risk we shouldn't take. The
>majority
>>> of them have come from countries that have corrupt governments. Why
do
>you
>>> think they can never get it together in their countries? I believe we
>would
>>> end up with the same kind of corrupt government in time if we allow them
>>> to become citizens. We don't owe these people a free ride.
>>>
>>> It's time to speak up now or be bulldozed under. Call or write your
representatives.
>>> I strongly urge you to take the time now to contact your representative
>>> about this issue. The American dream and your standard of living are
>about
>>> to be given away buy the politicians. Let them know who will be in the
>unemployment
>>> line next if they do this. The future of America depends on you now.
> It's
>>> time to get this stopped! We need to end this free for all here in america
>>> that these politicians have created. Don't let them sell us out!
>James, where do you live? I live in the urban Northeast, in New Haven, CT
and spend a lot of time in NYC. In this part of the country if you like to
eat out in a restaurant, get in a taxi cab, get your house cleaned, or want
to build/refurbish a home, you're dealing with illegal immigrants. And not
just Mexicans, also East Europeans, Egyptians, West Africans, Jamaicans,
and to a lesser degree people from various parts of Asia and the middle east.
It's a fact of life.
On top of that, if an illegal has a child in the US the child is a citizen.
And children of illegals (citizens or not) are legally entitled to attend
public schools. What do we do with the five year old citizen with two 27
year old illegal parents? And what if the kid is in school in the US and
one parent is illegal? We break up the family and send two of them back to
Romania?
Lastly, I'm second, third, and fourth generation American. Ain't no Plymouth
Rock in my family, just a bunch of krauts and micks looking for a better
life. Some of the hardest working people I know are Dominican and Jamaican
immigrants, some illegal, some legal. I don't see why they shouldn't get
their shot at what my grandparents and great grandparents got.
TCB
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Agreement Reached on Immigration Reform
>
>http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070517/D8P69IO00.html
>
>
>
>It's time Washington hears us all loud and clear. It's time to call and
>write your representatives. It's nothing more than amnesty for law breakers.
> These illegals that are in our country are sponging off our welfare systems,
>collecting benefits, they didn't even pay in to, and costing you in tax
dollars.
> The politicians want to pass laws to give the illegals your social security
>benefits. They didn't even pay in to social security. Some of these people
>come in to our country just to be able to collect benefits and send the
money
>back to their home lands. In some cases this money has reached terrorist.
>Our politicians are selling us all out again and giving your country way
>at a vary high cost to you! None of us owe these people.
>
>Illegals are costing all of us. Illegals sponging off our tax dollars,
and
>having our cost of living go up as a result of hospitalization cost, schooling,
>law enforcement costs, housing cost, etc. It's no different than having
>a bunch of them break in to your house and eat your food, run your telephone
>bill up, run your rent up, and spend your money. These people have broken
>in to our country. They don't have a right to citizenship. They have a
>right to be deported. We need to push this invasion of our country back
>now, and we have a right to do that.
>
>There are many of the illegals come in to our country because they are criminals
>and can't come in to our country legally. With others, we have no access
>to their past criminal records. yet they are in our country, and take our
>jobs.
>
>We already have legal immigration, why should we change our law to accommodate
>a bunch of law breakers? People are out of work here in the US, letting
>a bunch of people flood in to our country and take our jobs is hurting us.
> It brings wages down.
>
>This idiot president says nobody wants those jobs. Nobody wants those jobs
>because they don't pay well, and they don't pay well because we have illegal
>immigrants working those jobs for next to nothing. Nobody is going to pay
>$12.00 to $20.00 an hour if they can get an illegal for $5.00 or $6.00 an
>hour and not have to pay taxes and benefits. It's nice for the president
>and his buddies to have Cooks, nannies, gardeners, landscapers, clothes
launders,
>fruit pickers, and ranch hands for cheap. How many of you have people like
>that working for you cheap? Do you have a ranch hand? It's nice for the
>president, the Kennedy's and the Heinz family, but it's cheating WE THE
PEOPLE
>out of what our parents worked so hard for. It's now a free for all for
>foreigners. They are selling us out, giving it all away at our expense
and
>stealing our American Dream. Enough is enough!
>
>It's time the people that were born here have a say. It's time the people
>that were born here have first rights. It's time people and there families
>that have payed in to the taxes for years get some support when they are
>out of work instead of the foreigners that don't belong here. The illegals
>are sucking up the aid and resources. They are pouring in to our country
>by the millions, and there is no end in sight. They are a huge burden on
>all of us. It ha
|
|
|
|
| Re: Free for all for illegal immigrants! [message #84726 is a reply to message #84722] |
Thu, 17 May 2007 15:54 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
s nearly bankrupted some states. We need to get this stopped,
>not hand them citizenship. We are going to have a huge flood of people
trying
>to cross our borders if they reward them with citizenship. With that will
>come terrorists.
>
>These politicians are selling us all out for their own selfish political
>gain. They are selling off the wealth of the US wholesale to the rest of
>the world. They are letting the third world flood in to our country. It
>is killing the middle class. It is creating the haves and the have nots.
> This has been planned for years by the members of the Trilateral Commission,
>The world banks and the CFR. They are intentionally lowering our standard
>of living. Their goal is that the elite rich will rule all of us economically.
> They want to rule the world.
>
>Were hearing that huge sucking sound here in Michigan. As the auto industry
>goes, so does the whole country. In time it will catch up to your state
>too. We have around 12% unemployment in my part of Michigan. It's great
>that you can buy a two dollar rubber hammer from China, but we are paying
>$3.30 plus a gallon for gas. Who thinks this is smart.
>
>Soon you wont have a choice, you will only be able to buy a Cadillac that
>is made in China. Everything will be made somewhere else before you know
>it. We have unfair trade that is killing manufacturing here in the US.
>Who do you think made those deals? Who do you think sold us out? The answer
>is the idiot politicians we keep voting in to office. As long as the two
>parties keep pointing fingers at each other, they will keep us divided,
and
>weak! This is how they stay in power! We are being sold out by them right
>now. It's time to tell them not to support this bad policy of giving illegals
>citizenship. It's time to tell them, that they will be in the unemployment
>line if they make this law.
>
> We need to put a moratorium on immigration until we can get control of
it.
> Somebody said that in 1991-92, but nobody listened. We got 911 as a result
>of week policies on immigration. When will we wake up to the truth? A
hand
>full of British sailors supposedly cross in to Iranian waters and it's a
>international incident. Tens of thousands illegally cross our borders
a
>day and nothing is really done about it. Some people need to get fired
from
>their jobs, but we just keep voting these people back in to to office to
>sell us out.
>
>We need to put unemployed americans back to work. We need to put unemployed
>Americans on our borders to guard us. We need to put unemployed americans
>to work at our sea ports to check shipping containers, and charge the Chinese
>for this service. I'm tired of hearing that we don't have enough people
>to handle these kind of problems or tasks. We need to put more americans
>to work at our air ports to handle security. There is plenty of work that
>would pay a decent wage if we kicked the illegals out of our country. No
>more cheap labor for big corporations at all of our expense.
>
>These illegal immigrants they want to make citizens will sway entire states
>and parts of the country in future elections. This amnesty will create
a
>huge voting block. These people will rule our country in a short time.
>It would be like adding another state that would always be the deciding
vote
>in every election in the future. It's a risk we shouldn't take. The majority
>of them have come from countries that have corrupt governments. Why do
you
>think they can never get it together in their countries? I believe we would
>end up with the same kind of corrupt government in time if we allow them
>to become citizens. We don't owe these people a free ride.
>
>It's time to speak up now or be bulldozed under. Call or write your representatives.
> I strongly urge you to take the time now to contact your representative
>about this issue. The American dream and your standard of living are about
>to be given away buy the politicians. Let them know who will be in the
unemployment
>line next if they do this. The future of America depends on you now. It's
>time to get this stopped! We need to end this free for all here in america
>that these politicians have created. Don't let them sell us out!James McCloskey wrote:
> What in the world makes you think that suddenly these people are going to
> start going by the rules now? They didn't go by the rules to begin with!
This plan seems to offer citizenship as a reward if they go by the new
rules. As I said, I don't know if this is the best approach.
Generalizations aside, what specific data do you have to support your
criticism?
I'm not going to generalize about "these people" since we're talking
about a diverse group including many who weren't here during earlier times.
> It's time to take this seriously.
Sure. What do you propose?
what is your alternative solution? And what is the cost of your solution?
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>> From the article:
>> "The proposed agreement would allow illegal immigrants to come forward
>> and obtain a "Z visa" and - after paying fees and a $5,000 fine -
>> ultimately get on track for permanent residency, which could take
>> between eight and 13 years. Heads of household would have to return to
>> their home countries first."
>>
>> I don't know if this is the best approach, but it's not exactly a "free
>
>> for all" as you claim. There are millions of illegal immigrants
>> currently living and working in the USA. This plan proposes to charge
>> them billions of dollars to have a chance to stay here legally.
>>
>> Many of them already have social security and taxes withheld, and of
>> course they also pay sales taxes in states that charge sales tax. I
>> don't know if the statistics will support your implication of an overall
>
>> negative economic effect, but I doubt it. I suspect it's more likely to
>
>> be a positive effect to have those additional working taxpayers pushing
>
>> productivity in the USA. OTOH, the jobs argument does have some merit.
>>
>> What's your solution, James? And what is the cost of your solution?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>>
>> James McCloskey wrote:
>>> Agreement Reached on Immigration Reform
>>>
>>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070517/D8P69IO00.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's time Washington hears us all loud and clear. It's time to call and
>>> write your representatives. It's nothing more than amnesty for law breakers.
>>> These illegals that are in our country are sponging off our welfare systems,
>>> collecting benefits, they didn't even pay in to, and costing you in tax
> dollars.
>>> The politicians want to pass laws to give the illegals your social security
>>> benefits. They didn't even pay in to social security. Some of these
> people
>>> come in to our country just to be able to collect benefits and send the
> money
>>> back to their home lands. In some cases this money has reached terrorist.
>>> Our politicians are selling us all out again and giving your country way
>>> at a vary high cost to you! None of us owe these people.
>>>
>>> Illegals are costing all of us. Illegals sponging off our tax dollars,
> and
>>> having our cost of living go up as a result of hospitalization cost, schooling,
>>> law enforcement costs, housing cost, etc. It's no different than having
>>> a bunch of them break in to your house and eat your food, run your telephone
>>> bill up, run your rent up, and spend your money. These people have broken
>>> in to our country. They don't have a right to citizenship. They have
> a
>>> right to be deported. We need to push this invasion of our country back
>>> now, and we have a right to do that.
>>>
>>> There are many of the illegals come in to our country because they are
> criminals
>>> and can't come in to our country legally. With others, we have no access
>>> to their past criminal records. yet they are in our country, and take
> our
>>> jobs.
>>>
>>> We already have legal immigration, why should we change our law to accommodate
>>> a bunch of law breakers? People are out of work here in the US, letting
>>> a bunch of people flood in to our country and take our jobs is hurting
> us.
>>> It brings wages down.
>>>
>>> This idiot president says nobody wants those jobs. Nobody wants those
> jobs
>>> because they don't pay well, and they don't pay well because we have illegal
>>> immigrants working those jobs for next to nothing. Nobody is going to
> pay
>>> $12.00 to $20.00 an hour if they can get an illegal for $5.00 or $6.00
> an
>>> hour and not have to pay taxes and benefits. It's nice for the president
>>> and his buddies to have Cooks, nannies, gardeners, landscapers, clothes
> launders,
>>> fruit pickers, and ranch hands for cheap. How many of you have people
> like
>>> that working for you cheap? Do you have a ranch hand? It's nice for
> the
>>> president, the Kennedy's and the Heinz family, but it's cheating WE THE
> PEOPLE
>>> out of what our parents worked so hard for. It's now a free for all for
>>> foreigners. They are selling us out, giving it all away at our expense
> and
>>> stealing our American Dream. Enough is enough!
>>>
>>> It's time the people that were born here have a say. It's time the people
>>> that were born here have first rights. It's time people and there families
>>> that have payed in to the taxes for years get some support when they are
>>> out of work instead of the foreigners that don't belong here. The illegals
>>> are sucking up the aid and resources. They are pouring in to our country
>>> by the millions, and there is no end in sight. They are a huge burden
> on
>>> all of us. It has nearly bankrupted some states. We need to get this
> stopped,
>>> not hand them citizenship. We are going to have a huge flood of people
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Free for all for illegal immigrants! [message #84727 is a reply to message #84726] |
Thu, 17 May 2007 15:58 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
; trying
>>> to cross our borders if they reward them with citizenship. With that
> will
>>> come terrorists.
>>>
>>> These politicians are selling us all out for their own selfish political
>>> gain. They are selling off the wealth of the US wholesale to the rest
> of
>>> the world. They are letting the third world flood in to our country.
> It
>>> is killing the middle class. It is creating the haves and the have nots.
>>> This has been planned for years by the members of the Trilateral Commission,
>>> The world banks and the CFR. They are intentionally lowering our standard
>>> of living. Their goal is that the elite rich will rule all of us economically.
>>> They want to rule the world.
>>>
>>> Were hearing that huge sucking sound here in Michigan. As the auto industry
>>> goes, so does the whole country. In time it will catch up to your state
>>> too. We have around 12% unemployment in my part of Michigan. It's great
>>> that you can buy a two dollar rubber hammer from China, but we are paying
>>> $3.30 plus a gallon for gas. Who thinks this is smart.
>>>
>>> Soon you wont have a choice, you will only be able to buy a Cadillac that
>>> is made in China. Everything will be made somewhere else before you know
>>> it. We have unfair trade that is killing manufacturing here in the US.
>
>>> Who do you think made those deals? Who do you think sold us out? The
> answer
>>> is the idiot politicians we keep voting in to office. As long as the
> two
>>> parties keep pointing fingers at each other, they will keep us divided,
> and
>>> weak! This is how they stay in power! We are being sold out by them
> right
>>> now. It's time to tell them not to support this bad policy of giving
> illegals
>>> citizenship. It's time to tell them, that they will be in the unemployment
>>> line if they make this law.
>>>
>>> We need to put a moratorium on immigration until we can get control of
> it.
>>> Somebody said that in 1991-92, but nobody listened. We got 911 as a result
>>> of week policies on immigration. When will we wake up to the truth?
> A hand
>>> full of British sailors supposedly cross in to Iranian waters and it's
> a
>>> international incident. Tens of thousands illegally cross our borders
> a
>>> day and nothing is really done about it. Some people need to get fired
> from
>>> their jobs, but we just keep voting these people back in to to office
> to
>>> sell us out.
>>>
>>> We need to put unemployed americans back to work. We need to put unemployed
>>> Americans on our borders to guard us. We need to put unemployed americans
>>> to work at our sea ports to check shipping containers, and charge the
> Chinese
>>> for this service. I'm tired of hearing that we don't have enough people
>>> to handle these kind of problems or tasks. We need to put more americans
>>> to work at our air ports to handle security. There is plenty of work
> that
>>> would pay a decent wage if we kicked the illegals out of our country.
> No
>>> more cheap labor for big corporations at all of our expense.
>>>
>>> These illegal immigrants they want to make citizens will sway entire states
>>> and parts of the country in future elections. This amnesty will create
> a
>>> huge voting block. These people will rule our country in a short time.
>
>>> It would be like adding another state that would always be the deciding
> vote
>>> in every election in the future. It's a risk we shouldn't take. The
> majority
>>> of them have come from countries that have corrupt governments. Why do
> you
>>> think they can never get it together in their countries? I believe we
> would
>>> end up with the same kind of corrupt government in time if we allow them
>>> to become citizens. We don't owe these people a free ride.
>>>
>>> It's time to speak up now or be bulldozed under. Call or write your representatives.
>>> I strongly urge you to take the time now to contact your representative
>>> about this issue. The American dream and your standard of living are
> about
>>> to be given away buy the politicians. Let them know who will be in the
> unemployment
>>> line next if they do this. The future of America depends on you now.
> It's
>>> time to get this stopped! We need to end this free for all here in america
>>> that these politicians have created. Don't let them sell us out!
>We have always had immigration. I'm talking about illegal immigrants. They
should not be rewarded with citizenship. It's my opinion that the immigrants
that come here to have babies to gain citizenship should be denied including
the baby. They are using a loop hole, and it cost all of us in the cost
of health care. We get the hospital bill!
I would say that, if that is the status and their in the us, I would grandfather
them in as long as there is no criminal record. If there is, out they go!
They would have to pay for any medical bills they created, so the rest of
us don't have to. If it were up to me that loop hole would be closed, there
would be a date on it!
So if a bunch of people broke in to your house and took over, would that
be Ok with you? Can I come live with you for free? Want to pay for all
my hospital bills?
Just because there are a bunch of illegals in our country right now doesn't
make it right! It's not Ok! They have a path to citizenship they didn't
take it, so now we should reward them??? This country is being flooded,
it's not good for the US. We need to slow down, and enforce our laws on
immigration, not give them amnesty.
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>James, where do you live? I live in the urban Northeast, in New Haven, CT
>and spend a lot of time in NYC. In this part of the country if you like
to
>eat out in a restaurant, get in a taxi cab, get your house cleaned, or want
>to build/refurbish a home, you're dealing with illegal immigrants. And not
>just Mexicans, also East Europeans, Egyptians, West Africans, Jamaicans,
>and to a lesser degree people from various parts of Asia and the middle
east.
>It's a fact of life.
>
>On top of that, if an illegal has a child in the US the child is a citizen.
>And children of illegals (citizens or not) are legally entitled to attend
>public schools. What do we do with the five year old citizen with two 27
>year old illegal parents? And what if the kid is in school in the US and
>one parent is illegal? We break up the family and send two of them back
to
>Romania?
>
>Lastly, I'm second, third, and fourth generation American. Ain't no Plymouth
>Rock in my family, just a bunch of krauts and micks looking for a better
>life. Some of the hardest working people I know are Dominican and Jamaican
>immigrants, some illegal, some legal. I don't see why they shouldn't get
>their shot at what my grandparents and great grandparents got.
>
>TCB
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Agreement Reached on Immigration Reform
>>
>>http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070517/D8P69IO00.html
>>
>>
>>
>>It's time Washington hears us all loud and clear. It's time to call and
>>write your representatives. It's nothing more than amnesty for law breakers.
>> These illegals that are in our country are sponging off our welfare systems,
>>collecting benefits, they didn't even pay in to, and costing you in tax
>dollars.
>> The politicians want to pass laws to give the illegals your social security
>>benefits. They didn't even pay in to social security. Some of these people
>>come in to our country just to be able to collect benefits and send the
>money
>>back to their home lands. In some cases this money has reached terrorist.
>>Our politicians are selling us all out again and giving your country way
>>at a vary high cost to you! None of us owe these people.
>>
>>Illegals are costing all of us. Illegals sponging off our tax dollars,
>and
>>having our cost of living go up as a result of hospitalization cost, schooling,
>>law enforcement costs, housing cost, etc. It's no different than having
>>a bunch of them break in to your house and eat your food, run your telephone
>>bill up, run your rent up, and spend your money. These people have broken
>>in to our country. They don't have a right to citizenship. They have
a
>>right to be deported. We need to push this invasion of our country back
>>now, and we have a right to do that.
>>
>>There are many of the illegals come in to our country because they are
criminals
>>and can't come in to our country legally. With others, we have no access
>>to their past criminal records. yet they are in our country, and take our
>>jobs.
>>
>>We already have legal immigration, why should we change our law to accommodate
>>a bunch of law breakers? People are out of work here in the US, letting
>>a bunch of people flood in to our country and take our jobs is hurting
us.
>> It brings wages down.
>>
>>This idiot president says nobody wants those jobs. Nobody wants those
jobs
>>because they don't pay well, and they don't pay well because we have illegal
>>immigrants working those jobs for next to nothing. Nobody is going to
pay
>>$12.00 to $20.00 an hour if they can get an illegal for $5.00 or $6.00
an
>>hour and not have to pay taxes and benefits. It's nice for the president
>>and his buddies to have Cooks, nannies, gardeners, landscapers, clothes
>launders,
>>fruit pickers, and ranch hands for cheap. How many of you have people
like
>>that working for you cheap? Do you have a ranch hand? It's nice for the
>>president, the Kennedy's and the Heinz family, but it's cheating WE THE
>PEOPLE
>>out of what our parents worked so hard for. It's now a free for all for
>>foreigners. They are selling us out, giving it all away at our expense
>and
>>stealing our American Dream. Enough is enough!
>>
>>It's time the people that were born here have a say. It's time the people
>>that were born here have first rights. It's time people and there families
>>that have payed in to the taxes for years get some support when they are
>>out of work instead of the foreigners that don't belong here. The illegals
>>are sucking up the aid and resources. They are pouring in to our country
>>by the millions, and there is no end in sight. They are a huge burden
on
>>all of us. It has nearly bankrupted some states. We need to get this
stopped,
>>not hand them citizenship. We are going to have a huge flood of people
>trying
>>to cross our borders if they reward them with citizenship. With that will
>>come terrorists.
>>
>>These politicians are selling us all out for their own selfish political
>>gain. They are selling off the wealth of the US wholesale to the rest
of
>>the world. They are letting the third world flood in to our country.
It
>>is killing the middle class. It is creating the haves and
|
|
|
|
| Re: Free for all for illegal immigrants! [message #84729 is a reply to message #84721] |
Thu, 17 May 2007 16:42 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
the have nots.
>> This has been planned for years by the members of the Trilateral Commission,
>>The world banks and the CFR. They are intentionally lowering our standard
>>of living. Their goal is that the elite rich will rule all of us economically.
>> They want to rule the world.
>>
>>Were hearing that huge sucking sound here in Michigan. As the auto industry
>>goes, so does the whole country. In time it will catch up to your state
>>too. We have around 12% unemployment in my part of Michigan. It's great
>>that you can buy a two dollar rubber hammer from China, but we are paying
>>$3.30 plus a gallon for gas. Who thinks this is smart.
>>
>>Soon you wont have a choice, you will only be able to buy a Cadillac that
>>is made in China. Everything will be made somewhere else before you know
>>it. We have unfair trade that is killing manufacturing here in the US.
>
>>Who do you think made those deals? Who do you think sold us out? The
answer
>>is the idiot politicians we keep voting in to office. As long as the two
>>parties keep pointing fingers at each other, they will keep us divided,
>and
>>weak! This is how they stay in power! We are being sold out by them right
>>now. It's time to tell them not to support this bad policy of giving illegals
>>citizenship. It's time to tell them, that they will be in the unemployment
>>line if they make this law.
>>
>> We need to put a moratorium on immigration until we can get control of
>it.
>> Somebody said that in 1991-92, but nobody listened. We got 911 as a result
>>of week policies on immigration. When will we wake up to the truth? A
>hand
>>full of British sailors supposedly cross in to Iranian waters and it's
a
>>international incident. Tens of thousands illegally cross our borders
>a
>>day and nothing is really done about it. Some people need to get fired
>from
>>their jobs, but we just keep voting these people back in to to office to
>>sell us out.
>>
>>We need to put unemployed americans back to work. We need to put unemployed
>>Americans on our borders to guard us. We need to put unemployed americans
>>to work at our sea ports to check shipping containers, and charge the Chinese
>>for this service. I'm tired of hearing that we don't have enough people
>>to handle these kind of problems or tasks. We need to put more americans
>>to work at our air ports to handle security. There is plenty of work that
>>would pay a decent wage if we kicked the illegals out of our country.
No
>>more cheap labor for big corporations at all of our expense.
>>
>>These illegal immigrants they want to make citizens will sway entire states
>>and parts of the country in future elections. This amnesty will create
>a
>>huge voting block. These people will rule our country in a short time.
>
>>It would be like adding another state that would always be the deciding
>vote
>>in every election in the future. It's a risk we shouldn't take. The majority
>>of them have come from countries that have corrupt governments. Why do
>you
>>think they can never get it together in their countries? I believe we
would
>>end up with the same kind of corrupt government in time if we allow them
>>to become citizens. We don't owe these people a free ride.
>>
>>It's time to speak up now or be bulldozed under. Call or write your representatives.
>> I strongly urge you to take the time now to contact your representative
>>about this issue. The American dream and your standard of living are about
>>to be given away buy the politicians. Let them know who will be in the
>unemployment
>>line next if they do this. The future of America depends on you now.
It's
>>time to get this stopped! We need to end this free for all here in america
>>that these politicians have created. Don't let them sell us out!
>The interesting contrast to the Mexican immigration issue is that whole
communities in Mexico are becoming dangerously dependant on income from
family members now in the US - that's bad economics on both ends (money paid
in the US going out; and that money undermining the economic growth within
Mexican communities in terms of work force and business building). They are
also seeing significant population declines. Immigration to us, is
potential disaster to many Mexican communities. This isn't a one way
problem.
Imho, the solution to Mexican immigration (and yes we do need one) is for
Mexico to improve it's own country and work just a bit harder to keep it's
own residents, not by force but by prosperity and pride. The US isn't a
golden egg-laying goose for the world to freely walk in and harvest at will.
No country is. We are, or were, a country with much the same individual
responsibilities of citizenship other countries are built on. However, we
are letting ourselves become the "whatever goes, whatever you like, come at
will" catch basin for the rest of the world. That isn't a good use of our
resources or capabilities as a society. It's irresponsible at best.
Our economy will eventually suffer significantly from our lack of control
over our borders, and we could see other declines as well. Other countries
will feel that impact as well, so it isn't just about the US. And, that
isn't a slight on any nationality - it's just a simple fact of a lack of
definition over what makes one a contributing citizen vs. an under the
radar, uncontrolled cost, or even liability.
Fwiw, I'm part Scotch-Irish and part Cherokee. My family roots go back to
the 1700s (when the Terry brothers first settled here) and before, but we're
all really renting time on this land, regardless of where or when our
families first settled. The issue isn't when we got here, but what we do as
part of this country and society once we get here.
Regards,
DedricWhy should they be rewarded? They broke in to our country. They gain citizenship
by having babies in our country, we get stuck with the bill. They use loop
holes and under the table employment to stay. They are being aided by our
government and they take our jobs! They've got to go.
"These People" are anybody that is in our country illegally. I have to follow
laws, you have to follow laws, and they get rewarded for breaking our laws???
They need to be deported, and we need a fence and enough americans watch
our borders to keep them out. It will cost less than supporting them. There
are many americans that would volunteer to guard the boarders.
These people can still apply for citizenship legally.
Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>James McCloskey wrote:
>> What in the world makes you think that suddenly these people are going
to
>> start going by the rules now? They didn't go by the rules to begin with!
>
>This plan seems to offer citizenship as a reward if they go by the new
>rules. As I said, I don't know if this is the best approach.
>Generalizations aside, what specific data do you have to support your
>criticism?
>
>I'm not going to generalize about "these people" since we're talking
>about a diverse group including many who weren't here during earlier times.
>
>
>> It's time to take this seriously.
>
>Sure. What do you propose?
>
>what is your alternative solution? And what is the cost of your solution?
>
>Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
>
>> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>> From the article:
>>> "The proposed agreement would allow illegal immigrants to come forward
>>> and obtain a "Z visa" and - after paying fees and a $5,000 fine -
>>> ultimately get on track for permanent residency, which could take
>>> between eight and 13 years. Heads of household would have to return to
>>> their home countries first."
>>>
>>> I don't know if this is the best approach, but it's not exactly a "free
>>
>>> for all" as you claim. There are millions of illegal immigrants
>>> currently living and working in the USA. This plan proposes to charge
>>> them billions of dollars to have a chance to stay here legally.
>>>
>>> Many of them already have social security and taxes withheld, and of
>>> course they also pay sales taxes in states that charge sales tax. I
>>> don't know if the statistics will support your implication of an overall
>>
>>> negative economic effect, but I doubt it. I suspect it's more likely
to
>>
>>> be a positive effect to have those additional working taxpayers pushing
>>
>>> productivity in the USA. OTOH, the jobs argument does have some merit.
>>>
>>> What's your solution, James? And what is the cost of your solution?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
|
|
|
|
| Re: Free for all for illegal immigrants! [message #84732 is a reply to message #84726] |
Thu, 17 May 2007 16:51 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
>
>>> -Jamie
>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> James McCloskey wrote:
>>>> Agreement Reached on Immigration Reform
>>>>
>>>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070517/D8P69IO00.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's time Washington hears us all loud and clear. It's time to call
and
>>>> write your representatives. It's nothing more than amnesty for law
breakers.
>>>> These illegals that are in our country are sponging off our welfare
systems,
>>>> collecting benefits, they didn't even pay in to, and costing you in
tax
>> dollars.
>>>> The politicians want to pass laws to give the illegals your social
security
>>>> benefits. They didn't even pay in to social security. Some of these
>> people
>>>> come in to our country just to be able to collect benefits and send
the
>> money
>>>> back to their home lands. In some cases this money has reached terrorist.
>>>> Our politicians are selling us all out again and giving your country
way
>>>> at a vary high cost to you! None of us owe these people.
>>>>
>>>> Illegals are costing all of us. Illegals sponging off our tax dollars,
>> and
>>>> having our cost of living go up as a result of hospitalization cost,
schooling,
>>>> law enforcement costs, housing cost, etc. It's no different than having
>>>> a bunch of them break in to your house and eat your food, run your telephone
>>>> bill up, run your rent up, and spend your money. These people have
broken
>>>> in to our country. They don't have a right to citizenship. They have
>> a
>>>> right to be deported. We need to push this invasion of our country
back
>>>> now, and we have a right to do that.
>>>>
>>>> There are many of the illegals come in to our country because they are
>> criminals
>>>> and can't come in to our country legally. With others, we have no access
>>>> to their past criminal records. yet they are in our country, and take
>> our
>>>> jobs.
>>>>
>>>> We already have legal immigration, why should we change our law to accommodate
>>>> a bunch of law breakers? People are out of work here in the US, letting
>>>> a bunch of people flood in to our country and take our jobs is hurting
>> us.
>>>> It brings wages down.
>>>>
>>>> This idiot president says nobody wants those jobs. Nobody wants those
>> jobs
>>>> because they don't pay well, and they don't pay well because we have
illegal
>>>> immigrants working those jobs for next to nothing. Nobody is going
to
>> pay
>>>> $12.00 to $20.00 an hour if they can get an illegal for $5.00 or $6.00
>> an
>>>> hour and not have to pay taxes and benefits. It's nice for the president
>>>> and his buddies to have Cooks, nannies, gardeners, landscapers, clothes
>> launders,
>>>> fruit pickers, and ranch hands for cheap. How many of you have people
>> like
>>>> that working for you cheap? Do you have a ranch hand? It's nice for
>> the
>>>> president, the Kennedy's and the Heinz family, but it's cheating WE
THE
>> PEOPLE
>>>> out of what our parents worked so hard for. It's now a free for all
for
>>>> foreigners. They are selling us out, giving it all away at our expense
>> and
>>>> stealing our American Dream. Enough is enough!
>>>>
>>>> It's time the people that were born here have a say. It's time the
people
>>>> that were born here have first rights. It's time people and there families
>>>> that have payed in to the taxes for years get some support when they
are
>>>> out of work instead of the foreigners that don't belong here. The illegals
>>>> are sucking up the aid and resources. They are pouring in to our country
>>>> by the millions, and there is no end in sight. They are a huge burden
>> on
>>>> all of us. It has nearly bankrupted some states. We need to get this
>> stopped,
>>>> not hand them citizenship. We are going to have a huge flood of people
>> trying
>>>> to cross our borders if they reward them with citizenship. With that
>> will
>>>> come terrorists.
>>>>
>>>> These politicians are selling us all out for their own selfish political
>>>> gain. They are selling off the wealth of the US wholesale to the rest
>> of
>>>> the world. They are letting the third world flood in to our country.
>> It
>>>> is killing the middle class. It is creating the haves and the have
nots.
>>>> This has been planned for years by the members of the Trilateral Commission,
>>>> The world banks and the CFR. They are intentionally lowering our standard
>>>> of living. Their goal is that the elite rich will rule all of us economically.
>>>> They want to rule the world.
>>>>
>>>> Were hearing that huge sucking sound here in Michigan. As the auto
industry
>>>> goes, so does the whole country. In time it will catch up to your state
>>>> too. We have around 12% unemployment in my part of Michigan. It's
great
>>>> that you can buy a two dollar rubber hammer from China, but we are paying
>>>> $3.30 plus a gallon for gas. Who thinks this is smart.
>>>>
>>>> Soon you wont have a choice, you will only be able to buy a Cadillac
that
>>>> is made in China. Everything will be made somewhere else before you
know
>>>> it. We have unfair trade that is killing manufacturing here in the
US.
>>
>>>> Who do you think made those deals? Who do you think sold us out? The
>> answer
>>>> is the idiot politicians we keep voting in to office. As long as the
>> two
>>>> parties keep pointing fingers at each other, they will keep us divided,
>> and
>>>> weak! This is how they stay in power! We are being sold out by them
>> right
>>>> now. It's time to tell them not to support this bad policy of giving
>> illegals
>>>> citizenship. It's time to tell them, that they will be in the unemployment
>>>> line if they make this law.
>>>>
>>>> We need to put a moratorium on immigration until we can get control
of
>> it.
>>>> Somebody said that in 1991-92, but nobody listened. We got 911 as a
result
>>>> of week policies on immigration. When will we wake up to the truth?
>> A hand
>>>> full of British sailors supposedly cross in to Iranian waters and it's
>> a
>>>> international incident. Tens of thousands illegally cross our borders
>> a
>>>> day and nothing is really done about it. Some people need to get fired
>> from
>>>> their jobs, but we just keep voting these people back in to to office
>> to
>>>> sell us out.
>>>>
>>>> We need to put unemployed americans back to work. We need to put unemployed
>>>> Americans on our borders to guard us. We need to put unemployed americans
>>>> to work at our sea ports to check shipping containers, and charge the
>> Chinese
>>>> for this service. I'm tired of hearing that we don't have enough people
>>>> to handle these kind of problems or tasks. We need to put more americans
>>>> to work at our air ports to handle security. There is plenty of work
>> that
>>>> would pay a decent wage if we kicked the illegals out of our country.
>> No
>>>> more cheap labor for big corporations at all of our expense.
>>>>
>>>> These illegal immigrants they want to make citizens will sway entire
states
>>>> and parts of the country in future elections. This amnesty will create
>> a
>>>> huge voting block. These people will rule our country in a short time.
>>
>>>> It would be like adding another state that would always be the deciding
>> vote
>>>> in every election in the future. It's a risk we shouldn't take. The
>> majority
>>>> of them have come from countries that have corrupt governments. Why
do
>> you
>>>> think they can never get it together in their countries? I believe
we
>> would
>>>> end up with the same kind of corrupt government in time if we allow
them
>>>> to become citizens. We don't owe these people a free ride.
>>>>
>>>> It's time to speak up now or be bulldozed under. Call or write your
representatives.
>>>> I strongly urge you to take the time now to contact your representative
>>>> about this issue. The American dream and your standard of living are
>> about
>>>> to be given away buy the politicians. Let them know who will be in
the
>> unemployment
>>>> line next if they do this. The future of America depends on you now.
>> It's
>>>> time to get this stopped! We need to end this free for all here in
america
>>>> that these politicians have created. Don't let them sell us out!
>>Dedric, I agree with what you said.
The countries they come from are corrupt shit holes. They want to bring
their ways here. They don't want to follow rules, or assimilate. It is
costly, we have to print all government documents in their native language.
It should be a rule that you have to learn the language before you can become
a citizen. Why is it my responsibility to pay for somebody from another
country?
Their countries have just as many natural resources as any where else. Gold,
diamonds, oil, agriculture, tourism, etc. There governments are corrupt.
They will bring that here, and make our country a shit hole too.
They are not going to follow the rules or laws. Granting them rights and
making them citizens sends the wrong message the the whole world. We'll
be flooded and our standard of living will drop. As demand goes up so will
the cost of everything.
Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>The interesting contrast to the Mexican immigration issue is that whole
>communities in Mexico are becoming dangerously dependant on income from
>family members now in the US - that's bad economics on both ends (money
paid
>in the US going out; and that money undermining the economic growth within
>Mexican communities in terms of work force and business building). They
are
>also seeing significant population declines. Immigration to us, is
>potential disaster to many Mexican communities. This isn't a one way
>problem.
>
>Imho, the solution to Mexican immigration (and yes we do need one) is for
>Mexico to improve it's own cou
|
|
|
|
| Re: Free for all for illegal immigrants! [message #84733 is a reply to message #84729] |
Thu, 17 May 2007 17:56 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
ntry and work just a bit harder to keep it's
>own residents, not by force but by prosperity and pride. The US isn't a
>golden egg-laying goose for the world to freely walk in and harvest at will.
>No country is. We are, or were, a country with much the same individual
>responsibilities of citizenship other countries are built on. However,
we
>are letting ourselves become the "whatever goes, whatever you like, come
at
>will" catch basin for the rest of the world. That isn't a good use of our
>resources or capabilities as a society. It's irresponsible at best.
>
>Our economy will eventually suffer significantly from our lack of control
>over our borders, and we could see other declines as well. Other countries
>will feel that impact as well, so it isn't just about the US. And, that
>isn't a slight on any nationality - it's just a simple fact of a lack of
>definition over what makes one a contributing citizen vs. an under the
>radar, uncontrolled cost, or even liability.
>
>Fwiw, I'm part Scotch-Irish and part Cherokee. My family roots go back
to
>the 1700s (when the Terry brothers first settled here) and before, but we're
>all really renting time on this land, regardless of where or when our
>families first settled. The issue isn't when we got here, but what we do
as
>part of this country and society once we get here.
>
>Regards,
>Dedric
>"Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:464cd07d$1@linux...
>
> You kill me. Sorry I missed you last week. I'd like to hang in person
> someday.
> except, I don't think I could keep up.
> rod
I just try to focus on the important stuff. I think it would be fun to hang
myself.......................errr.......uuuhhhhh..........hm mm,
;o)I agree that the immigration system is broken.
So now that we have millions of illegal immigrants here, what does it
cost to support them. IOW, subtract the costs you can attribute to
having them here from the taxes they pay and economic growth they
sustain. What's the difference and is it positive or negative?
What would deportation of millions of people cost? What would that do to
the economy? Real estate prices? Existing business that hire them?
Including the US military? What are all the unintended costs?
How long a fence do you want to build? What would a manned xx mile fence
cost to build? To operate per year?
Given all that and whatever I forgot, what is the sum total of the costs
of your plan? I assume we're talking billions here, at least. Is it the
best way to invest that money?
Also, how safe is your plan? Will lives be saved or lost, overall,
compared to other alternatives?
I'm not saying you're wrong or right, I just want to know the facts
behind your plan in order to evaluate it. As adamant as you are on this
issue, I figure you've already gathered the specific data to support the
generalizations.
Then we can better compare it to the bipartisan Senate plan. BTW, one of
the elements of the Senate plan is to weigh citizenship eligibility
toward skills and education rather than family connections. I don't know
if this specifically addresses your "baby" loophole, but it might.
I don't want to be glib about any of this, BTW, it's not an easy problem
from any angle.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
James McCloskey wrote:
> Why should they be rewarded? They broke in to our country. They gain citizenship
> by having babies in our country, we get stuck with the bill. They use loop
> holes and under the table employment to stay. They are being aided by our
> government and they take our jobs! They've got to go.
>
> "These People" are anybody that is in our country illegally. I have to follow
> laws, you have to follow laws, and they get rewarded for breaking our laws???
>
>
> They need to be deported, and we need a fence and enough americans watch
> our borders to keep them out. It will cost less than supporting them. There
> are many americans that would volunteer to guard the boarders.
>
> These people can still apply for citizenship legally.
>
>
>
> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>> James McCloskey wrote:
>>> What in the world makes you think that suddenly these people are going
> to
>>> start going by the rules now? They didn't go by the rules to begin with!
>> This plan seems to offer citizenship as a reward if they go by the new
>> rules. As I said, I don't know if this is the best approach.
>> Generalizations aside, what specific data do you have to support your
>> criticism?
>>
>> I'm not going to generalize about "these people" since we're talking
>> about a diverse group including many who weren't here during earlier times.
>>
>>
>>> It's time to take this seriously.
>> Sure. What do you propose?
>>
>> what is your alternative solution? And what is the cost of your solution?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>>
>>> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>> From the article:
>>>> "The proposed agreement would allow illegal immigrants to come forward
>
>>>> and obtain a "Z visa" and - after paying fees and a $5,000 fine -
>>>> ultimately get on track for permanent residency, which could take
>>>> between eight and 13 years. Heads of household would have to return to
>
>>>> their home countries first."
>>>>
>>>> I don't know if this is the best approach, but it's not exactly a "free
>>>> for all" as you claim. There are millions of illegal immigrants
>>>> currently living and working in the USA. This plan proposes to charge
>
>>>> them billions of dollars to have a chance to stay here legally.
>>>>
>>>> Many of them already have social security and taxes withheld, and of
>
>>>> course they also pay sales taxes in states that charge sales tax. I
>>>> don't know if the statistics will support your implication of an overall
>>>> negative economic effect, but I doubt it. I suspect it's more likely
> to
>>>> be a positive effect to have those additional working taxpayers pushing
>>>> productivity in the USA. OTOH, the jobs argument does have some merit.
>>>>
>>>> What's your solution, James? And what is the cost of your solution?
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> -Jamie
>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> James McCloskey wrote:
>>>>> Agreement Reached on Immigration Reform
>>>>>
>>>>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070517/D8P69IO00.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's time Washington hears us all loud and clear. It's time to call
> and
>>>>> write your representatives. It's nothing more than amnesty for law
> breakers.
>>>>> These illegals that are in our country are sponging off our welfare
> systems,
>>>>> collecting benefits, they didn't even pay in to, and costing you in
> tax
>>> dollars.
>>>>> The politicians want to pass laws to give the illegals your social
> security
>>>>> benefits. They didn't even pay in to social security. Some of these
>>> people
>>>>> come in to our country just to be able to collect benefits and send
> the
>>> money
>>>>> back to their home lands. In some cases this money has reached terrorist.
>>>>> Our politicians are selling us all out again and giving your country
> way
>>>>> at a vary high cost to you! None of us owe these people.
>>>>>
>>>>> Illegals are costing all of us. Illegals sponging off our tax dollars,
>>> and
>>>>> having our cost of living go up as a result of hospitalization cost,
> schooling,
>>>>> law enforcement costs, housing cost, etc. It's no different than having
>>>>> a bunch of them break in to your house and eat your food, run your telephone
>>>>> bill up, run your rent up, and spend your money. These people have
> broken
>>>>> in to our country. They don't have a right to citizenship. They have
>>> a
>>>>> right to be deported. We need to push this invasion of our country
> back
>>>>> now, and we have a right to do that.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are many of the illegals come in to our country because they are
>>> criminals
>>>>> and can't come in to our country legally. With others, we have no access
>>>>> to their past criminal records. yet they are in our country, and take
>>> our
>>>>> jobs.
>>>>>
>>>>> We already have legal immigration, why should we change our law to accommodate
>>>>> a bunch of law breakers? People are out of work here in the US, letting
>>>>> a bunch of people flood in to our country and take our jobs is hurting
>>> us.
>>>>> It brings wages down.
>>>>>
>>>>> This idiot president says nobody wants those jobs. Nobody wants those
>>> jobs
>>>>> because they don't pay well, and they don't pay well because we have
> illegal
>>>>> immigrants working those jobs for next to nothing. Nobody is going
> to
>>> pay
>>>>> $12.00 to $20.00 an hour if they can get an illegal for $5.00 or $6.00
>>> an
>>>>> hour and not have to pay taxes and benefits. It's nice for the president
>>>>> and his buddies to have Cooks, nannies, gardeners, landscapers, clothes
>>> launders,
>>>>> fruit pickers, and ranch hands for cheap. How many of you have people
>>> like
>>>>> that working for you cheap? Do you have a ranch hand? It's nice for
>>> the
>>>>> president, the Kennedy's and the Heinz family, but it's cheating WE
> THE
>>> PEOPLE
>>>>> out of what our parents worked so hard for. It's now a free for all
> for
>>>>> foreigners. They are selling us out, giving it all away at our expense
>>> and
>>>>> stealing our American Dream. Enough is
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Free for all for illegal immigrants! [message #84736 is a reply to message #84732] |
Thu, 17 May 2007 18:10 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
;>>> too. We have around 12% unemployment in my part of Michigan. It's
> great
>>>>> that you can buy a two dollar rubber hammer from China, but we are paying
>>>>> $3.30 plus a gallon for gas. Who thinks this is smart.
>>>>>
>>>>> Soon you wont have a choice, you will only be able to buy a Cadillac
> that
>>>>> is made in China. Everything will be made somewhere else before you
> know
>>>>> it. We have unfair trade that is killing manufacturing here in the
> US.
>>>>> Who do you think made those deals? Who do you think sold us out? The
>>> answer
>>>>> is the idiot politicians we keep voting in to office. As long as the
>>> two
>>>>> parties keep pointing fingers at each other, they will keep us divided,
>>> and
>>>>> weak! This is how they stay in power! We are being sold out by them
>>> right
>>>>> now. It's time to tell them not to support this bad policy of giving
>>> illegals
>>>>> citizenship. It's time to tell them, that they will be in the unemployment
>>>>> line if they make this law.
>>>>>
>>>>> We need to put a moratorium on immigration until we can get control
> of
>>> it.
>>>>> Somebody said that in 1991-92, but nobody listened. We got 911 as a
> result
>>>>> of week policies on immigration. When will we wake up to the truth?
>
>>> A hand
>>>>> full of British sailors supposedly cross in to Iranian waters and it's
>>> a
>>>>> international incident. Tens of thousands illegally cross our borders
>>> a
>>>>> day and nothing is really done about it. Some people need to get fired
>>> from
>>>>> their jobs, but we just keep voting these people back in to to office
>>> to
>>>>> sell us out.
>>>>>
>>>>> We need to put unemployed americans back to work. We need to put unemployed
>>>>> Americans on our borders to guard us. We need to put unemployed americans
>>>>> to work at our sea ports to check shipping containers, and charge the
>>> Chinese
>>>>> for this service. I'm tired of hearing that we don't have enough people
>>>>> to handle these kind of problems or tasks. We need to put more americans
>>>>> to work at our air ports to handle security. There is plenty of work
>>> that
>>>>> would pay a decent wage if we kicked the illegals out of our country.
>>> No
>>>>> more cheap labor for big corporations at all of our expense.
>>>>>
>>>>> These illegal immigrants they want to make citizens will sway entire
> states
>>>>> and parts of the country in future elections. This amnesty will create
>>> a
>>>>> huge voting block. These people will rule our country in a short time.
>>>>> It would be like adding another state that would always be the deciding
>>> vote
>>>>> in every election in the future. It's a risk we shouldn't take. The
>>> majority
>>>>> of them have come from countries that have corrupt governments. Why
> do
>>> you
>>>>> think they can never get it together in their countries? I believe
> we
>>> would
>>>>> end up with the same kind of corrupt government in time if we allow
> them
>>>>> to become citizens. We don't owe these people a free ride.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's time to speak up now or be bulldozed under. Call or write your
> representatives.
>>>>> I strongly urge you to take the time now to contact your representative
>>>>> about this issue. The American dream and your standard of living are
>>> about
>>>>> to be given away buy the politicians. Let them know who will be in
> the
>>> unemployment
>>>>> line next if they do this. The future of America depends on you now.
>>> It's
>>>>> time to get this stopped! We need to end this free for all here in
> america
>>>>> that these politicians have created. Don't let them sell us out!
> http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html? id=c47c1209-233b-412c-b6d1-5c755457a8af
This is getting interesting innit?
DCDon,
Check the polar icecap. This was taken from Google Earth today. Where did it
go...or has it always been this tiny?
I can't find any satellite photos of the North Pole in 1992 to compare.
It's probably Bush's fault.
;o)
"DC" <dc@spammersinthetroposphere.com> wrote in message
news:46630a29$1@linux...
>
> http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html? id=c47c1209-233b-412c-b6d1-5c755457a8af
>
> This is getting interesting innit?
>
> DC
>
As always, consider the source....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Post
Just sayin'.....
"DC" <dc@spammersinthetroposphere.com> wrote:
>
> http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html? id=c47c1209-233b-412c-b6d1-5c755457a8af
>
>This is getting interesting innit?
>
>DC
>DC wrote:
> This is getting interesting innit?
It would be nice if we could finger an easy non-human-caused explanation
for current global warming. I can understand the desire to be off the
hook. However the linked articles don't get us there. Misinterpretation
of the science and hyperbole about the scientists don't add much to a
real discussion about climate change.
According to this site, the newspaper has already printed an apology.
From http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_display.cfm/blog_id/792 0
******quote*****
"Apology to Dr. Nigel Weiss
Nigel Weiss, professor of astrophysics at the University of Cambridge,
believes that the warming trend in Earth's climate is caused by
greenhouse gases produced by human activity, and that the effect of a
potential future reduction in solar activity would not reverse or cancel
out that trend, but might have a small effect in mitigating it. He has
held these views for several years. Incorrect information appeared in a
column in the Financial Post on Feb. 2. The National Post withdraws any
allegation that Dr. Weiss is a global warming "denier" and regrets the
embarrassment caused him by the Feb. 2 column and a further column on
Feb. 9."
As for Lawrence Solomon himself, the man who presents us with ten -- no
nine -- people he, and few others, describe as "Deniers" -- and all of
whom, he now admits, recognize global warming as being anthropogenic in
nature, thus blowing up his entire series, is what, exactly? The man
whose polemical articles begin with such minute attention to the
"credentials" and scientific training, as he sees it, of his Ten -- no
make that Nine, no make that in the end none -- of his Deniers, is
described as follows:
"Lawrence Solomon is executive director of Urban Renaissance Institute
and Consumer Policy Institute, divisions of Energy Probe Research
Foundation."
Look into the "Urban Renaissance Institute" and the "Consumer Policy
Institute" which are "divisions" of the "Energy Probe Research
Foundation," and see what you turn up. Go ahead -- it will be a useful
exercise.
This kind of nonsense, already out-of-date, already exposed to ridicule
should not be put up, any more should some paper from 2004 or 1997,
without the poster quite realizing that the paper in question has
already been discredited, and frequently the author has already
distanced himself from his own findings.
******end quote*****
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
DC wrote:
> http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html? id=c47c1209-233b-412c-b6d1-5c755457a8af
>
> This is getting interesting innit?
>
> DC
>Hard to deny global warming is occurring at an alarming rate when we can
actually watch glaciers and ice caps crumble, thereby losing even more of
the planets ability to reflect some of the sun's heat away from the earth's
surface. And I don't think any, or many, are denying that it's happening,
only that human pollution is causing or accellerating it.
Oh yeah, there's a stretch, the idea that TONS of CO2 being pumped in to the
air everyday could have an affect on climate. We're talking about a gas . .
.. we breathe it . . . we can't see it, or smell it . . . and yet the amount
we put into the atmosphere is measured in TONS. You wouldn't pollute your
house to this degree, yet apparently some of us think nothing of massively
polluting the shared biosphere.
I'll pretend to be open-minded on this issue and say, "well, if there's even
a chance that we are causing this, we better do everything we can as quickly
as we can to stop, and hopefully reverse this."
"If" my ass. What's more likely here . . . that there are genuinely
concerned scientists who are unconvinced that humans are contributing to
global climate change? Or that the dissenters are supported by powerful
influences whose massive profits from fossil fuels are threatened?
If this trend is not reversed, and we see the predicted climatic
catastrophes, those parties who actively obfuscated the issue, putting
self-interest above the well-being of an entire planet full of people,
should be put into equatorial prison camps being eaten alive by mosquitos
the size of cats.
At least, that's what I think. :)
S
"DC" <dc@spammersinthetroposphere.com> wrote in message
news:46630a29$1@linux...
>
> http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html? id=c47c1209-233b-412c-b6d1-5c755457a8af
>
> This is getting interesting innit?
>
> DC
>Thanks Phil,
"Phil Aiken" <SAD@ASF.SDF> wrote:
>
>
>As always, consider the source....
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Post
>
>Just sayin'.....
>
>
>"DC" <dc@spammersinthetroposphere.com> wrote:
>>
>> http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html? id=c47c1209-233b-412c-b6d1-5c755457a8af
>>
>>This is getting interesting innit?
>>
>>DC
>>
>"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>Don,
>
>Check the polar icecap. This was taken from Google Earth today. Where did
it
>go...or has it always been this tiny?
>
>I can't find any satellite photos of the North Pole in 1992 to compare.
>
>It's probably Bush's fault.
>
>;o)
>
>
Gore melted it with all his hot air!
>
>
>"DC" <dc@spammersinthetroposphere.com> wrote in message
>news:46630a29$1@linux...
>>
>> http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html? id=c47c1209-233b-412c-b6d1-5c755457a8af
>>
>> This is getting interesting innit?
>>
>> DC
>>
>
>
>I'm serious James. I grew up in south Texas, and spent a good part of my
life on the Gulf coast. there were droughts and heat waves and hurricanes
and all sorts of cyclical weather events. I'm well over the half century
mark so I may have a little perspective on this due to my qualifying as
somewhat of an old fart, and I've never seen sustained water temperatures
this high in the gulf of Mexico. th
|
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| Re: Free for all for illegal immigrants! [message #84744 is a reply to message #84736] |
Thu, 17 May 2007 22:41 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
nk"> http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html? id=c47c1209-233b-412c-b6d1-5c755457a8af
>>
>>This is getting interesting innit?
>>
>>DC
>>
>Your dragging me in to this. The european space agency has been taking photos
of the polar caps for years. They say that they melt an break and all that.
They say they refreeze, and are staying the same size over all. They are
not shrinking, it's a big lie!
Al Gore is a lier. It's about money! A greasy politician like Al Gore wouldn't
be involved if it wasn't. He is buying Global offsets for $0.10 and turning
and selling them to us for a dollar, it's about money. These trilateralist
want to turn it in to a tax. they want to take the tax revenue and hand
it to third world countries. Guilt tax!
The truth is, our government spends over two billion dollars a year to study
this. The scientist that are on the government gravy train want to get funding
increased. Other scientist are saying it's not true. Man made global warming
is a scam.
Scientist are divided on this issue of man made Global Warming. Man made
Global Warming is a theory. There is no conclusive proof.
All the scientist know we are going through a sun cycle that has been warming
the earth.
Show me some proof that people are dyeing from Global Warming, you can't.
There has always been bad weather. The earth always goes through cycles.
The guy that came up with man made global warming said back in the 70s that
we would be in an ice age right now. So which is it?
It's about money.
Sorry I'm not buying in to the man's bullshit.
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>I'm serious James. I grew up in south Texas, and spent a good part of my
>life on the Gulf coast. there were droughts and heat waves and hurricanes
>and all sorts of cyclical weather events. I'm well over the half century
>mark so I may have a little perspective on this due to my qualifying as
>somewhat of an old fart, and I've never seen sustained water temperatures
>this high in the gulf of Mexico. that may not cause hurricanes in and of
>itself, but it the warmer the water, the more likely a tropical storm is
to
>turn into a real motherfucker on the half shell.
>
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:46638b62$1@linux...
>>
>> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>>Don,
>>>
>>>Check the polar icecap. This was taken from Google Earth today. Where
did
>> it
>>>go...or has it always been this tiny?
>>>
>>>I can't find any satellite photos of the North Pole in 1992 to compare.
>>>
>>>It's probably Bush's fault.
>>>
>>>;o)
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Gore melted it with all his hot air!
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"DC" <dc@spammersinthetroposphere.com> wrote in message
>>>news:46630a29$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html? id=c47c1209-233b-412c-b6d1-5c755457a8af
>>>>
>>>> This is getting interesting innit?
>>>>
>>>> DC
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>DC wrote:
> Where did the global warming on Mars come from?
>
> Exxon?
Facetiousness is fun. But look deeper. It's a different process on Mars.
Here:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1720024.ece
"The mechanism at work on Mars appears, however, to be different from
that on Earth. One of the researchers, Lori Fenton, believes variations
in radiation and temperature across the surface of the Red Planet are
generating strong winds.
In a paper published in the journal Nature, she suggests that such winds
can stir up giant dust storms, trapping heat and raising the planet’s
temperature.
Fenton’s team unearthed heat maps of the Martian surface from Nasa’s
Viking mission in the 1970s and compared them with maps gathered more
than two decades later by Mars Global Surveyor. They found there had
been widespread changes, with some areas becoming darker.
When a surface darkens it absorbs more heat, eventually radiating that
heat back to warm the thin Martian atmosphere: lighter surfaces have the
opposite effect. The temperature differences between the two are thought
to be stirring up more winds, and dust, creating a cycle that is warming
the planet."
> Many scientists think that the sun is the engine driving things...
Of course the sun is the major engine driving our climate.
However measurements of changes in the output of the sun do not
correlate with the recent measured warming trend. So while sun drives
climate, the recent change we are seeing are not caused by changes in
the sun's output.
Here:
http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/12/28/090/30666
"According to PMOD at the World Radiation Center there has been no
increase in solar irradiance since at least 1978, when satellite
observations began. This means that for the last thirty years, while the
temperature has been rising fastest, the sun has not changed."
> I dunno, and I am actually inclined towards the "play it safe" position
> as long as we can get the corrupt and all the wackos away from
> making the decisions...
Playing it save is a conservative stance. It's the prudent position
given what we know.
Keeping corruption out is a great idea. Stupidity, too.
> What is so interesting to me is how the current consensus is being
> exposed as the politically-motivated sham it has always been.
How so? Your last example was inaccurate.
I think the "sham" notion is a pretension propagated by those who feel
they have something, somehow, to lose by facing the facts.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
> DC
>
> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>> Don,
>>
>> Check the polar icecap. This was taken from Google Earth today. Where did
> it
>> go...or has it always been this tiny?
>>
>> I can't find any satellite photos of the North Pole in 1992 to compare.
>>
>> It's probably Bush's fault.
>>
>> ;o)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "DC" <dc@spammersinthetroposphere.com> wrote in message
>> news:46630a29$1@linux...
>>> http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html? id=c47c1209-233b-412c-b6d1-5c755457a8af
>>>
>>> This is getting interesting innit?
>>>
>>> DC
>>>
>>
>>
>You've got a pretty big conspiracy going there James.
Scientists all over the world in multiple disciplines are completely
corrupt en mass. I suppose they are all faking their data, too.
You'll have to prove that one.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
James McCloskey wrote:
> Your dragging me in to this. The european space agency has been taking photos
> of the polar caps for years. They say that they melt an break and all that.
> They say they refreeze, and are staying the same size over all. They are
> not shrinking, it's a big lie!
>
> Al Gore is a lier. It's about money! A greasy politician like Al Gore wouldn't
> be involved if it wasn't. He is buying Global offsets for $0.10 and turning
> and selling them to us for a dollar, it's about money. These trilateralist
> want to turn it in to a tax. they want to take the tax revenue and hand
> it to third world countries. Guilt tax!
>
> The truth is, our government spends over two billion dollars a year to study
> this. The scientist that are on the government gravy train want to get funding
> increased. Other scientist are saying it's not true. Man made global warming
> is a scam.
>
> Scientist are divided on this issue of man made Global Warming. Man made
> Global Warming is a theory. There is no conclusive proof.
>
> All the scientist know we are going through a sun cycle that has been warming
> the earth.
> Show me some proof that people are dyeing from Global Warming, you can't.
> There has always been bad weather. The earth always goes through cycles.
>
> The guy that came up with man made global warming said back in the 70s that
> we would be in an ice age right now. So which is it?
>
> It's about money.
>
> Sorry I'm not buying in to the man's bullshit.
>
> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>> I'm serious James. I grew up in south Texas, and spent a good part of my
>
>> life on the Gulf coast. there were droughts and heat waves and hurricanes
>
>> and all sorts of cyclical weather events. I'm well over the half century
>
>> mark so I may have a little perspective on this due to my qualifying as
>
>> somewhat of an old fart, and I've never seen sustained water temperatures
>
>> this high in the gulf of Mexico. that may not cause hurricanes in and of
>
>> itself, but it the warmer the water, the more likely a tropical storm is
> to
>> turn into a real motherfucker on the half shell.
>>
>>
>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:46638b62$1@linux...
>>> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>>> Don,
>>>>
>>>> Check the polar icecap. This was taken from Google Earth today. Where
> did
>>> it
>>>> go...or has it always been this tiny?
>>>>
>>>> I can't find any satellite photos of the North Pole in 1992 to compare.
>>>>
>>>> It's probably Bush's fault.
>>>>
>>>> ;o)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Gore melted it with all his hot air!
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinthetroposphere.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:46630a29$1@linux...
>>>>> http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html? id=c47c1209-233b-412c-b6d1-5c755457a8af
>>>>>
>>>>> This is getting interesting innit?
>>>>>
>>>>> DC
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4663a090$1@linux...
>
> Your dragging me in to this.
Huh?........so I forced your fingers to the keyboard and made you type
something. Man!!!......I guess God was made in my image.
The european space agency has been taking photos
> of the polar caps for years. They say that they melt an break and all
> that.
> They say they refreeze, and are staying the same size over all. They are
> not shrinking, it's a big lie!
Can you point me to some of these. I'd like to see for myself.
>
> Al Gore is a lier.
Well DOH!
It's about money!
Well.DOH!!
A greasy politician like Al Gore wouldn't
> be involved if it wasn't. He is buying Global offsets for $0.10 and
> turning
> and selling them to us for a dollar, it's about money. These
> trilateralist
> want to turn it in to a tax. they want to take the tax revenue and hand
> it to third world countries. Guilt tax!
Hey man.....I'm not defending Gore, I'm just asking!!! (shit...now I know
how Sarah feels wheh I keep bringing up Clinton.....OK Sarah, I'll stop :o)
> The truth is, our government spends over two billion dollars a year to
> study
> this. The scientist that are on the government gravy train want to get
> funding
> increased. Other scientist are saying it's not true. Man made global
> warming
> is a scam.
>
We've got more poeple on the chunk of dirt and water than ever before. I'd
say that bears some investigation before dismissing it entirely.
> Scientist are divided on this issue of man made Global Warming. Man made
> Global Warming is a theory. There is no conclusive proof.
but some evidence, it seems.......
>
> All the scientist know we are going through a sun cycle that has been
> warming
> the earth.
> Show me some proof that people are dyeing from Global Warming, you can't.
> There has always been bad weather. The earth always goes through cycles.
yeah......and during a few of them, everything died.
>
> The guy that came up with man made global warming said back in the 70s
> that
> we would be in an ice age right now. So which is it?
but we have had them before........I'm not so sure an ice age is gonna show
up on someone's schedule.
>
> It's about money.
>
> Sorry I'm not buying in to the man's bullshit.
OK........that's fine by me. I;'d still like to see those photos.
Deej
>
> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>I'm serious James. I grew up in south Texas, and spent a good part of my
>
>>life on the Gulf coast. there were droughts and heat waves and hurricanes
>
>>and all sorts of cyclical weather events. I'm well over the half century
>
>>mark so I may have a little perspective on this due to my qualifying as
>
>>somewhat of an old fart, and I've never seen sustained water temperatures
>
>>this high in the gulf of Mexico. that may not cause hurricanes in and of
>
>>itself, but it the warmer the water, the more likely a tropical storm is
> to
>>turn into a real motherfucker on the half shell.
>>
>>
>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:46638b62$1@linux...
>>>
>>> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>>>Don,
>>>>
>>>>Check the polar icecap. This was taken from Google Earth today. Where
> did
>>> it
>>>>go...or has it always been this tiny?
>>>>
>>>>I can't find any satellite photos of the North Pole in 1992 to compare.
>>>>
>>>>It's probably Bush's fault.
>>>>
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