Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Rendering does Native but no EDS or Paris EQ.
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| Re: Rendering does Native but no EDS or Paris EQ. [message #61543 is a reply to message #61535] |
Sun, 18 December 2005 13:12   |
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John [1]
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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imitrios
>
>Another sweet trick is to put triggers on a conventional kit and use them to
open the gates :)
AA
"Tony Benson" <tony@standinghampton.com> wrote in message
news:43bd53ff@linux...
> The voltage from the triggers will record just like audio. Basically, a
> piezo trigger acts as a contact microphone. The bandwidth is usually very
> narrow and the sensitivity is much less than a conventional microphone.
> You will need to do some tweaking to get the gain and sensitivity right,
> but that shouldn't be too difficult. One thing to remember though is that
> triggers are sensitive to vibration from the whole drum kit. There will be
> a trade off between sensitivity and reducing false triggering, so that
> means it's difficult to get a wide range of trigger velocities without
> risking some double or false triggering. This is one area where an
> external trigger input device can help, as they can be set to ignore
> double triggering and usually have various settings to optimize the
> trigger's output. Anyway, if your doing pop, rock, or other music that
> doesn't necessarily require a lot of "finesse" on the drums, you should be
> able to make triggers and drumagog work. Don't plan on being able to do
> jazz or snare parts with ghost notes, etc. One thing you might also want
> to look into is putting mesh heads on the drums in addition to filling the
> shells with foam, packing peanuts, etc. That would reduce to "click"
> attack you'll get with regular drum heads.
>
> Tony
>
>
>
>
> "jef knight" <thestudio@allknightmusic.com> wrote in message
> news:43bd4794@linux...
>>I use triggers both in the studio and live (kick only).
>> I don't see how triggers could work w/o an interface between them and the
>> software. What are you thinkin', just put them into an audio input? I'm
>> not familliar with drummagog but w/o the interface where will you get all
>> the velocity etc info? Won't you have to convert the voltage from the
>> trigger into something useful?
>>
>> jef
>>
>> Dimitrios wrote:
>>
>>>Hi and happy new year.
>>>I amconsidering trying these roland drum triggers.
>>>I only wonder can these trigger signals be recorded and asre these
>>>reliable
>>>enouph to drive Drumagog's engine ?
>>>Thus not to buy and trigger to midi device that makes things more
>>>complicated.
>>>I would like to have clean (no leackage) trigger sound that could drive
>>>drumagog
>&g
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| Re: Rendering does Native but no EDS or Paris EQ. [message #61544 is a reply to message #61543] |
Sun, 18 December 2005 13:17 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
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Senior Member |
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t;>perfectly (if you can say that)
>>>I am already using it with real drum sounds but sometimes leackage is an
>>>enemy to perfect sound replacement.
>>>Any insight in this direction would be appreciatted.
>>>Regards,
>>>Dimitrios
>
>Nay. Behringer will come out with the Sable ZLV for cheaper, killing the
hype first :P
AA
"Tony Benson" <tony@standinghampton.com> wrote in message
news:43bd586e$1@linux...
> Well, maybe OnyxVLZpro? ;>)
>
> Tony
>
> "John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:43bd4a7b$1@linux...
>> so what will their next pres be? Even better, and then they'll have to
>> come up with some adjectives to describe what is wrong with the Onyx's. I
>> loves audio !
>>
>> Tony Benson wrote:
>>> From what I've heard, the Onyx pre's are a pretty big step up from the
>>> VLZpro. I've had non-VLZ, VLZ, and VLZpro Mackie boards, and though the
>>> VLZpro pre's where much better, they still had a "harshness" to them
>>> that I didn't care for. The Onyx are supposed to be much smoother
>>> sounding. I'll have to borrow my friends for a week so I can comment
>>> from first hand knowledge.
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>>
>>> "Miguel Vigil" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>> news:43bd4431@linux...
>>>
>>>>>know there was a diff in VLZ and VLZpro.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Yes there is a big difference. The VLZpro series is where Mackie rose
>>>>high on the radar of the pro user for quality, usefullness and bang for
>>>>the buck mic pre. Of course, you gotta use the insert out via first
>>>>click
>>>>method and avoid the channel.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Regards,
>>>>
>>>>El Miguel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:43bd177a$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>>>Don't know...I just asked him what he used, and that's what he said. I
>>>>
>>>>didn't
>>>>
>>>>>know there was a diff in VLZ and VLZpro.
>>>>>Rod
>>>>>"Miguel Vigil" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Right now his chain is a Mackie 1402 vlz into the Digi 002.
>>>>>>>>Any suggestions?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Is this Mackie the VLZpro series?
>>>>>>I don't know how the new Onyx pres compare.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>He could try to audition the cheap Behringer ADA8000 with it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://www.studioprojects.com/sp828.html
>>>>>>This is an 8 channe
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| Re: Rendering does Native but no EDS or Paris EQ. [message #61545 is a reply to message #61544] |
Sun, 18 December 2005 14:04 |
John [1]
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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l mic pre about $800, that needs to be run into an
>>>>
>>>>ADC.
>>>>
>>>>>>Just ideas to keep cost in check.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>El Miguel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>news:43bca3d6@linux...
>>>>
>>>>>>>Yeah, avoid that LT man.. cheap hardware, inconsistent volumes across
>>>>>
>>>>>it
>>>>>
>>>>>>and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>just generally felt shoddy.
>>>>>>>I'd take a Behr ADA8000 over it 'any day' to be honest, and it's a
>>>>
>>>>whole
>>>>
>>>>>>lot
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>less money.
>>>>>>>Not sure what the current recommend is though bro, I've been out of
>>>>
>>>>that
>>>>
>>>>>>>market for a while now and I'd hate to mislead ya.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>AA
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@kc.rr.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>
>>>>>>news:43bc0147$1@linux...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I've got a friend/client who's looking for an 8 channel mic pre that
>>>>>
>>>>>has
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>lightpipe/spdif
>>>>>>>>outs. He's running a digi 002 rig and wants to bypass the digi A/D
>>>>>>
>>>>>>stage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>He wants it to be good, but affordability is a concern. He was
>>>>
>>>>looking
>>>>
>>>>>a
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>a presonus digimax LT, but I saw that Aaron had some experience with
>>>>>>
>>>>>>those
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>and wasn't that hot on them.
>>>>>>>>Right now his chain is a Mackie 1402 vlz into the Digi 002.
>>>>>>>>Any suggestions?
>>>>>>>>TIA
>>>>>>>>Rod
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>FWIW, I'm producing a rap/R&B project in Nuendo - so far no problems getting
it to sound really good. I see your point, and maybe there is a magic wall
at 30-40 simultaneous tracks in 32-bit float, but I just don't see many
projects needing that many tracks simultaneously - I can't recall what we
had on the last song - it was stacked with doubled vocals, backgrounds
doubled on the chorus, accents, individual instrument tracks, etc.
A little well-placed subtractive EQ and a few other minor considerations
usually keep things from getting out of hand.
Can't speak for PTHD - haven't mixed on it yet.
Regards,
Dedric
On 1/3/06 10:55 AM, in article 43baac8e$1@linux, "LaMont"
<jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
> about the state of current DAWs and what's working and what's not. Opinions
> varied,but the one constant opinion that was stated was how dificult it was
> to mix in Cubase and Nuendo on mixes over 30 tracks. No matter what i/o
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| Re: Rendering does Native but no EDS or Paris EQ. [message #61546 is a reply to message #61545] |
Sun, 18 December 2005 16:24 |
Rod Lincoln
Messages: 883
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
|
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> converters(Apogee,Lucid,Motu,
> RME) mixing Rock , R&B, Hip-Hop is a dificult chore in SX/Nuendo..Where
> as mixing in Paris and Pro Tools is not..
> Hey,Just one Engineer's opinon.
>
> P.S
> Jsut for geekdum sakes, the new Sonar 5 uses a newly coded 64 to 32bit
> floating
> point mixer..
>
> "Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>> Yukkk,
>> Don't do it..PT I mean.
>> I've just been playing with PT M-Powered 6.8, using my Delta 1010, and I
>
>> have to say...I don't like it.
>> The interface is (IMNSHO), horrible, confusing, and convoluted.
>> Moves that come easily in Paris, and more easily in Nuendo, are tiresome
> in
>> PT, apart from the reagon tool...taht has always been good, right from the
>
>> Session 8 days, but not much else.
>> And..it only plays .MOV video files, which in my case is a no-no, (the full
>
>> TDM version may play the others but I don't think so).
>> To top it off, playing one of my projects from Nuendo, (reassembled), it
>
>> didn't have the "life" that the original had, by a long shot.
>> I repeat...don't go there, Jeff......
>> --
>> Martin Harrington
>> www.lendanear-sound.com
>>
>> "jef knight" <thestudio@allknightmusic.com> wrote in message
>> news:436fce7a$1@linux...
>>> I just read the doc, thanks for posting the link. Much of it is quite
>>> interesting and just as much is confusing.
>>> I didn't know tdm systems sounded gnarly, never having worked with one.
> At
>>> what track count would they sonically crap out?
>>>
>>> If I can't get some of my tedious little troubles with paris resolved
> I'm
>>> considering switching to protools.
>>>
>>> jef
>>>
>>> DJ wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://akwww.digidesign.com/support/docs/WhitePaper_48BitMix er.pdf
>>>>
>>>> Any comments? It appears to me that the signals are recorded at 24
>>>> bit, then processed at whatever bit rate the plugin on the channel has,
>>>> including dither, or not, then reprocessed to 24 bit, then these channels
>>>> are summed. I'm no guru when it comes to this stuff, but I get this
>>>> feeling
>>>> that this reprocessing *per channel* is the reason the TDM systems seem
> to
>>>> start sounding gnarly as more and more tracks are summed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>Gee uncle Rick.Every time your relate your experiences with Macs, somehow
I
>imagine that slitting my wrists would be preferable to owning one.
>
>
>;o)
>
>
One bad Apple out of the bunch and everybody thinks we got lemons.
>"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:g24rr1tepfc875igtpfb42n914c128i2r4@4ax.com...
>> my g4 has no sata connectivity so it would be strictly a pci thing. i
>> was checking out mac gurus and theirs against the others. i will say
>> that after 2 1/2 years tiger 10.4.3 is pretty good after 3 installs.
>> it seems that the firewire card in it went bad and for some reason
>> would take out the external drives on the internal firewire and
>> corrupt the boot drive that disk warrior wouldn't even touch it.
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 10:10:32 -0700, "DJ"
>> <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>>
>> >I've heard nothing but good things about the Silicon Image SATA
>conrrollers.
>> >I have a question about this though. If I'm reading my manual correctly,
>the
>> >onboard VIA controller on my mobo has it's own separate bus for SATA
RAID
>> >which is independent of the PCI bus. I would think that, if this is the
>> >case, us
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| Re: Rendering does Native but no EDS or Paris EQ. [message #61548 is a reply to message #61546] |
Sun, 18 December 2005 15:36 |
John [1]
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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we got lemons.
>
>
> >"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:g24rr1tepfc875igtpfb42n914c128i2r4@4ax.com...
> >> my g4 has no sata connectivity so it would be strictly a pci thing. i
> >> was checking out mac gurus and theirs against the others. i will say
> >> that after 2 1/2 years tiger 10.4.3 is pretty good after 3 installs.
> >> it seems that the firewire card in it went bad and for some reason
> >> would take out the external drives on the internal firewire and
> >> corrupt the boot drive that disk warrior wouldn't even touch it.
> >>
> >> thanks
> >>
> >> On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 10:10:32 -0700, "DJ"
> >> <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I've heard nothing but good things about the Silicon Image SATA
> >conrrollers.
> >> >I have a question about this though. If I'm reading my manual
correctly,
> >the
> >> >onboard VIA controller on my mobo has it's own separate bus for SATA
> RAID
> >> >which is independent of the PCI bus. I would think that, if this is
the
> >> >case, using an onboard controller would be a better choice as long as
> >it's
> >> >got a separate bus. The Promise controller on my A7V8X-LAN mobo has
> >onboard
> >> >SATA but it's pinging the PCI bus a little and therefore isn't much
> >faster
> >> >than ATA33.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> >news:s3tpr1lk8vmphfgn3jf4c7c8cdn9jt06a4@4ax.com...
> >> >> opinions???
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >Hey Dedric,
they way I nad other cut and mix R & B/Gospel baking vocals is have at least
4-8 layers per note. I go for 6 usually times 4 part harmony = 24 tracks
of balck vocals..Not including the MPC drums tracks=12-16 tracks..Lead Vocals..=2
, Keyss 4 tracks, Bass =2 tracks, Guitars 2-3 tracks....
Now mix this many tracks in nuendo fine, until youstart add plugins..That's
when things start getting crazy.. Levels not matching, distortion fron tracks..Track
balancing becomes off kilter.. YOu speed so much time just trying to put
out fires that you lose focus on the mix.. Then all of a sudden, here comes
that Nuendoi smearinng sound,..Nice and smooth..But, you're trying mix agresiive
!@@@ARGG.... So, then you start making trade offs on masert fader levels
(-5bd).. And so on and so it goes.. TOOO Much work ..In _PAris and PT ,
could've been done in jiffy..
Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>FWIW, I'm producing a rap/R&B project in Nuendo - so far no problems getting
>it to sound really good. I see your point, and maybe there is a magic wall
>at 30-40 simultaneous tracks in 32-bit float, but I just don't see many
>projects needing that many tracks simultaneously - I can't recall what we
>had on the last song - it was stacked with doubled vocals, backgrounds
>doubled on the chorus, accents, individual instrument tracks, etc.
>
>A little well-placed subtractive EQ and a few other minor considerations
>usually keep things from getting out of hand.
>
>Can't speak for PTHD - haven't mixed on it yet.
>
>Regards,
>Dedric
>
>On 1/3/06 10:55 AM, in article 43baac8e$1@linux, "LaMont"
><jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>> about the state of current DAWs and what's working and what's not. Opinions
>> varied,but the one constant opinion that was stated was how dificult it
was
>> to mix in Cubase and Nuendo on mixes over 30 tracks. No matter what i/o
>> converters(Apogee,Lucid,Motu,
>> RME) mixing Rock , R&B, Hip-Hop is a dificult chore in SX/Nuendo..Where
>> as mixing in Paris and Pro Tools is not..
>> Hey,Just one Engineer's opinon.
>>
>> P.S
>> Jsut for geekdum sakes, the new Sonar 5 uses a newly coded 64 to 32bit
>> floating
>> point mixer..
>>
>> "Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>> Yukkk,
>>> Don't do it..PT I mean.
>>> I've just been playing with PT M-Powered 6.8, using my Delta 1010, and
I
>>
>>> have to say...I don't like it.
>>> The interface is (IMNSHO), horrible, confusing, and convoluted.
>>> Moves that come easily in Paris, and more easily in Nuendo, are tiresome
>> in
>>> PT, apart from the reagon tool...taht has always been good, right from
the
>>
>>> Session 8 days, but not much else.
>>> And..it only plays .MOV video files, which in my case is a no-no, (the
full
>>
>>> TDM version may play the others but I don't think so).
>>> To top it off, playing one of my projects from Nuendo, (reassembled),
it
>>
>>> didn't have the "life" that the original had,
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| Re: Rendering does Native but no EDS or Paris EQ. [message #61560 is a reply to message #61548] |
Sun, 18 December 2005 22:25 |
Rod Lincoln
Messages: 883
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
>>>>>>>>>> know there was a diff in VLZ and VLZpro.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes there is a big difference. The VLZpro series is where Mackie
>
>>>>>>>>> rose
>>>>>>>>> high on the radar of the pro user for quality, usefullness and bang
>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> the buck mic pre. Of course, you gotta use the insert out via first
>>>>>>>>> click
>>>>>>>>> method and avoid the channel.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> El Miguel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:43bd177a$1@linux...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Don't know...I just asked him what he used, and that's what he
>
>>>>>>>>>> said.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> know there was a diff in VLZ and VLZpro.
>>>>>>>>>> Rod
>>>>>>>>>> "Miguel Vigil" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right now his chain is a Mackie 1402 vlz into the Digi 002.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Is this Mackie the VLZpro series?
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know how the new Onyx pres compare.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> He could try to audition the cheap Behringer ADA8000 with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.studioprojects.com/sp828.html
>>>>>>>>>>> This is an 8 channel mic pre about $800, that needs to be run
> into
>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ADC.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Just ideas to keep cost in check.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> El Miguel
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> news:43bca3d6@linux...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, avoid that LT man.. cheap hardware, inconsistent volumes
>>>> across
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> just generally felt shoddy.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd take a Behr ADA8000 over it 'any day' to be honest, and it's
>>> a
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> whole
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> lot
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> less money.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Not sure what the current recommend is though bro, I've been
> out
>>> of
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> market for a while now and I'd hate to mislead ya.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> AA
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@kc.rr.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> news:43bc0147$1@linux...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've got a friend/client who's looking for an 8 channel mic
> pre
>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lightpipe/spdif
>>>>>>>>>>>>> outs. He's running a digi 002 rig and wants to bypass the digi
>>> A/D
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> stage.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> He wants it to be good, but affordability is a concern. He was
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> looking
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a presonus digimax LT, but I saw that Aaron had some experience
>>>> with
>>>>>>
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