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| Re: Here we go again [message #54996 is a reply to message #54989] |
Tue, 28 June 2005 08:52   |
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Deej [3]
Messages: 181
Registered: June 2005
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Senior Member |
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sorbed
that your views are not important to us?
Until you can see the possibility that there is no other way, besides
war, to deal with these people, we cannot see that you have any
points worth listening to.
I am not evening saying that war is the only answer, just that if
you have an ideology that precludes it, and you see it always as a
failure, do not expect us to listen since you care more for your
ideology than you apparently care for our lives.
>in terms of monopoly,
>what followed with netanyahu was more or less a "go back
>to start" (locate 0 for the tape machine operators).
>it took a loong time, a way to long time, until the peace
>process even restarted.
"Peace process" what a f**king joke that term is. It is the words
that ideologues use to comfort themselves in the face of not only
failure, but the continuing loss of innocent lives.
Tell you what. You tell me that you would take a knife, and jam it
in the back of the next ghoul with a bomb, and you say thanks
to the soldiers who have saved so many lives, and we'll talk about
"peace processes". Until you allow for the full range of responses,
you are acting as an advocate for them.
And I still hold out hope that there is a peaceful solution. I just know
there may not be. Do you?
>only this time arafat didnt have the same power.
>his people didnt have the same trust. his position was
>not nearly the same - where before he was more or less
>the ultimate extremist and head of terror, he now
>was more or less the "diplomat who didnt get us anywhere",
>and definetly NOT the leading terrorist anymore,
>PLO? hamas is where the terror came from.
>so, since arafat always was a selfish asshole,
>he went back to selfish asshole mode and the following
>years, the whole sad struggle beg
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| Re: Here we go again [message #54998 is a reply to message #54989] |
Tue, 28 June 2005 09:07 |
Tom Bruhl
Messages: 1368
Registered: June 2007
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Senior Member |
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>worse now with george bush junior than it has been with
>clinton, even though george bush junior, when making and
>threat, is probably more believeable than clinton is
>(for better or worse). the US dont reign over israel - theyll
>do what THEY think is best for them. another sad irony
>here is that a lot of hatred that comes from the islamic
>world towards the US is based on the overestimated influence
>the US supposedly has on israel.
Like I said, our lack of influence on Israel is directly related to
the righteousness of their cause. The palestinians can have peace
any time they want it. They dont't want it.
>so, thats my take on the whole story. i dont claim i have
>the perfect solution. i dont say that deescalation is
>always the best option. i guess, i HOPE were all grown
>up enough to know that there is no such thing as a standard
>solution that fits for everything.
>
>but i DO think that this story is
>
>- a proof at how promising deescalation politics actually is.
>dozens of years with nothing but terror, along comes the
>only time where someone has the courage to try a deescalation
>strategy for real, and thats the time where theres the least
>terror? i say thats not a coincidence.
It's an interestng point, but I cannot see that it would have
produced a lasting peace.
>- also, while i.e. WWII is a good example that brute
>force can lead to peace, i personally believe the closer
>and more logical place to look at is the israel conflict.
>its not 60 years ago but today, and its the same "enemy"
>situation, not entire nations and classical struggle over
>territory with classic military tactics, but a war of
>cultures, islamic terrorists, no easy targets, no absolute
>security. its just the more logical comparison. state vs terror.
>unclear enemys. an incredibly complex situation.
So we eliminate leaders that sponsor terrorism, and provide hiding
places for them, we kill them, without mercy, wherever we can find,
them, and we spread modernity and democracy, and we stay at
it until we win. I believe this is the only solution and that negotiation
is impossible with islamofascists. Read the statement
of the murderer of Theo Van Gogh if you want to see the face of
the enemy.
>that is why i believe the whole approach is wrong.
>is there any less terror since this george bush practices
>this new policy?
DAMMIT, how can you repeat lies like that? WE were attacked on
911, and 3000 died. Since then, no attacks on the US, and the
attacks in europe are much less deadly than was 911.
>no theres not. so at least for now,
>i can only conclude that he failed, at least thats how
>it looks so far. whats the title of the thread again?
And if we stay the course, we can win this. If we cave, it is the
end of western civilisation and all future dealings with the islamic
world will be under threat of bombings of innocents. (until a new
great leader arises in germany perhaps, and promise to throw
off the yoke of islamofascism and pute ALL the lights out...)
>netanyahu, scharon, and yes, since he went back to
>the politics of force (in his case meaning terror), also
>arafat, they failed. theyre back at zero. they were so close.
>what i find so incredible is that ultimately, they all know it.
>fascinating how blind people can become when theres also
>always this goddamn religious aspect to it.
And what do you offer in place of this accursed religion?
Darwin? Pacifism? An enlightened social contract between
free moral people? Think these things will sell to the islamofascists?
Me neither. These are weak ideas and subject to the opinions of whoever
offers them.
Meaningless phrases full of intent, signifying nothing.
Perhaps they do not serve God at all. Perhaps at minimum they
have perverted Islam? Your hatred of religion will not offer an
alternative.
DCRandy Newman wrote a satire (tinyurl.com/d83pb) many years ago, the tagline
of which, best expresses my current view on the best solution to the
unceasing problem of terrorism emanating from middle east command and
means.... which is to say "most" terrorism.
I really am there. This is THE one way to ratt out the enemy and
simultaneously send the message to any further suiters: "Step right up for
your one-way bullet train to Allah, no purchase necessary, see fineprint on
tip of warhead for details."
The thing that put me over the edge was the piece of human waste that blew
up the little kids a couple of days ago while one of our guys was handing
out candy to them.
Anybody brave enough to say they think the same thing or have we all cowed
down to international version of the old Rodney King mantra, "Can't we all
just get long." Is there some plausible notion or a reason to believe that
eventually, if we just keep doing what we're doing, the extremist followers
of Bin ladin will just all of a sudden see it our way and fold up the biz
and integrate into peaceful society???
Dubya Mark Wilson
"Neil" <OIUIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:42d6fc20$1@linux...
>
> In a nutshell...
> I think if there's room & resources enough for both Israelis &
> Palestinians
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