Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » my next fun endeavor
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| Re: my next fun endeavor [message #93867 is a reply to message #93840] |
Sat, 22 December 2007 09:55   |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
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Senior Member |
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amp;gt;>> Martin Harrington <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:<B=
R>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#800080">>>>> James, you really are a sad l=
ittle man.<BR>
>>>> <BR>
>>>> How anything, let alone a couple of monopolistic computer =
companies,<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF">> can<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#FF0000">>>> get<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#800080">>>>> someone riled up as much as y=
ou get, is beyond belief.<BR>
>>>> <BR>
>>>> You act like Apple is your baby, and you'll fiercely defen=
d it to the<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF">> death<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#800080">>>>> <BR>
>>>> BTW, regarding apple being sued by Apple Records, (a=
nd quite rightly<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF">> so,<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#800080">>>>> )....<BR>
>>>> You just watch apple pounce on anyone that dares copy thei=
r hardware<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF">> or<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#FF0000">>>> use<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#800080">>>>> any resemblance to their name=
..<BR>
>>>> <BR>
>>>> <BR>
>>>> Martin Harrington<BR>
>>>> <BR>
>>>> <BR>
>>>> On 20/02/08 8:32 PM, in article 47bbe589$1@linux, "Ja=
mes McCloskey"<BR>
>>>> <excelsm@hot
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| Re: my next fun endeavor [message #93876 is a reply to message #93867] |
Sat, 22 December 2007 11:40 |
Deej
Messages: 130
Registered: September 2006
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Senior Member |
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br />
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#800080">>>>>> saying they have an exclu=
>sive right to the name impala.<BR>
>>>>>> <BR>
>>>>>> Apple Paid Apple records 20 million to settle out. &nb=
>sp;Apple did agree<BR>
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF">> not<BR>
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#FF0000">>>> to<BR>
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#800080">>>>>> enter the record company =
>business, so Apple records sued Apple computer<BR>
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#FF0000">>>> again<BR>
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#800080">>>>>> when Apple started iTunes=
>. Is Best Buy or Circuit City in the the record<BR>
>>>>>> company business? Well neither was Apple Compute=
>r. Apple had a right<BR>
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#FF0000">>>> to<BR>
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#800080">>>>>> resell music or recording=
>s just like best buy or mp3.com, there was<BR>
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF">> nothing<BR>
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#800080">>>>>> unethical about it. =
>;Apple records filed another frivolous law suit<BR>
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF">> against<BR>
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#800080">>>>>> Apple computer. I d=
>o not believe the results of that suit were disclosed,<BR>
>>>>>> however it sounds like Apple Computer did Ok.<BR>
>>>>>> <BR>
>>>>>> By the way, wasn't this about Vista? Vista still=
> sucks; )<BR>
>>>>>> <BR>
>>>>>> "Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude>=
>; wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>> Come now ... if we're talking ethical standards ri=
>ddle me 2 things,<BR>
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF">> early<BR>
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#800080">>>>>> <BR>
>>>>>>> history:<BR>
>>>>>>> <BR>
>>>>>>> How did the Apple Lisa get it's name?<BR>
>>>>>>> Who fired Steve Jobs, and why was he pushed out of=
> the Apple Lisa <BR>
>>>>>>> project?<BR>
>>>>>>> <BR>
>>>>>>> The funny thing about humanity and ethics is they =
>usually leave the<BR>
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF">> room<BR>
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#800080">>>>>> to <BR>
>>>>>>> make more space for money and greed when the word =
>'corporate' gets<BR>
>>>>>>> involved.<BR>
>>>>>>> <BR>
>>>>>>> Now, I'm not sayin Gates is a saint (or Ballmer), =
>hardly that, but<BR>
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF">> it's<BR>
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#800080">>>>>> <BR>
>>>>>>> rather obvious that Apple doesn't mind strong armi=
>ng folks either.<BR>
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF">> Let's<BR>
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#800080">>>>>> <BR>
>>>>>>> take iTunes. Apple and Apple Records had an agreem=
>ent. One conveniently<BR>
>>>>>> <BR>
>>>>>>> forgotten by Jobs that he later got to pay for. Jo=
>bs will tell you<BR>
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF">> he<BR>
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#FF0000">>>> saved<BR>
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#800080">>>>>> <BR>
>>>>>>> the record business. I bet the fat cats on boards =
>at labels have a<BR>
>>>>>>> different<BR>
>>>>>> <BR>
>>>>>>> song. (On the other end, the Zune is a failure IMO=
>) My perspective<BR>
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF">> is<BR>
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#800080">>>>>>> different than both t=
>hose parties. Everybody has their truth.<BR>
>>>>>>> But to say Apple or MS either one are ethical is a=
> tall order, and<BR>
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF">> it's<BR>
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#800080">>>>>> <BR>
>>>>>>> strictly a matter of power to push the smaller one=
>s around. MS just<BR>
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF">> has<BR>
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#800080">>>>>> more <BR>
>>>>>>> power.<BR>
>>>>>>> <BR>
>>>>>>> Just a little levity.<BR>
>>>>>>> <BR>
>>>>>>> <BR>
>>>>>> <BR>
>>>>> <BR>
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#FF0000">>>> <BR>
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#008000">>> <BR>
></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF">> <BR>
></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT>
></BODY>
></HTML>
>
>
>a lovely plan indeed.
On 21 Feb 2008 03:48:46 +1000, "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>
>I just run in the middle stir it up and haul buttNew-Wave plugs??? What are those - plugin's that make you sound
like the B-52's, Flock of Seagulls, & the Go-Go's???
:D
"Edna" <edna@texomaonline.com> wrote:
>Opinions on the Waves API and Vintage series Plugs?
>Thanks,
>Edna
>
>Does this run Pro Tools M-Powered?
respect
Nappy
"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>I'm thinking about getting this unit for my laptop.. Is USB 2 ready for
primetime?
>I hear that the pres are from the Octane line. http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FastTrackUltra-main.ht ml
>
>Anybody know of this unit?? Chris L? ThanksHey Nappy.. Yes it does run PT -M-Powered. That's one ogf the main reasons
for styaing with M_audio interfaces..
"Nappy" <juggler9@rock.com> wrote:
>
>Does this run Pro Tools M-Powered?
>
>respect
>Nappy
>
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>I'm thinking about getting this unit for my laptop.. Is USB 2 ready for
>primetime?
>>I hear that the pres are from the Octane line. http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FastTrackUltra-main.ht ml
>>
>>Anybody know of this unit?? Chris L? Thanks
>You have far higher standards than I do, but I've been using a Traktor USB
interface for a while now with pretty much zero problems. However, I'm sure
there's someone out there who will warn you about jitter and judder and mudder
and shudder and who knows what else. Mine sound fine to me. Actually better
than fine.
TCB
"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>I'm thinking about getting this unit for my laptop.. Is USB 2 ready for
primetime?
>I hear that the pres are from the Octane line. http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FastTrackUltra-main.ht ml
>
>Anybody know of this unit?? Chris L? Thanks"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:47bba823$1@linux...
>
> Ok, can you give me a legitimate example of Apple buying market share? I
How about the time the pulled the OS licensing from PowerComputing and UMaxx
and closed two entire companies and threw all those folks out of work.I'm running Vista with 64GB of RAM a PC running dual quads at 0.03ms latency
on and I've never had a single crash...and it never will crash because I
built it and therefore it is perfect. In comparison, OSX runs like the shit
that shit shits.
Mr. Simplicity
"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:onkqr3d6a5fbv1g0re9e085otbpdd7497d@4ax.com...
>a lovely plan indeed.
>
> On 21 Feb 2008 03:48:46 +1000, "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>I just run in the middle stir it up and haul butt
>Thanks Lamont,I did'nt see it on the M-Powered list.
respect
Nappy
"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Hey Nappy.. Yes it does run PT -M-Powered. That's one ogf the main reasons
>for styaing with M_audio interfaces..
>
>"Nappy" <juggler9@rock.com> wrote:
>>
>>Does this run Pro Tools M-Powered?
>>
>>respect
>>Nappy
>>
>>
>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>I'm thinking about getting this unit for my laptop.. Is USB 2 ready for
>>primetime?
>>>I hear that the pres are from the Octane line. http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FastTrackUltra-main.ht ml
>>>
>>>Anybody know of this unit?? Chris L? Thanks
>>
>The Gigabyte GA-K8NS mobo will require a fresh install of Windows. The
NForce3 chipset will not play nice with the driver set that has been loaded
on to your OS drive when used with a different mobo.
"jim drago" <jamesd@prospect.k12.or.us> wrote in message
news:47bcc958$1@linux...
>
> I just installed a new MoBo as per recommendations here an G K8NS. I have
> moved my PARIS card to and from many different Comps and never had a
> problem.
> Not so now. When I go to start the splash screen comes up followed
> immediately
> by cannot iniatialize error code 1/1.In checking my card it seems to not
> be completely seated but it is as for as it can go. Might I have to shim
> the MoBo a little.It's not very much, maybe 1/16 of and inch. What else
> could
> it be. Thanks Jim"Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote:
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:47bba823$1@linux...
>>
>> Ok, can you give me a legitimate example of Apple buying market share?
I
>
>How about the time the pulled the OS licensing from PowerComputing and UMaxx
>and closed two entire companies and threw all those folks out of work.
>
>
Bro that's business. Apple was being damaged by that deal, it was cannibalizing
Apple's sale. Apple chose to no longer renew the licensing. All of those
companies knew that was a possibility going in, that's business. Apple had
a responsibility to their share holders.
I believe the cloners could have kept going even with out Apple's support,
but they chose not to. There was talk of that, but it never happened. They
stopped around Mac OS 8, my clones run OS9.22 just fine, so they could have
kept going, they would have had to pay $99.00 to $129.00 for the OS. They
didn't have to fold up shop.
I do think it suck, remember I was a dealer for all the clones, it was the
beginning of the the end as a computer dealer for me, but that was a good
thing.
I don't think it was unethical, I believe it was just an unfortunate business
situation."Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote:
>I'm running Vista with 64GB of RAM a PC running dual quads at 0.03ms latency
>on and I've never had a single crash...and it never will crash because I
>built it and therefore it is perfect. In comparison, OSX runs like the shit
>that shit shits.
>
>Mr. Simplicity
Shit, Dude! You crack me up!
>
>
>"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:onkqr3d6a5fbv1g0re9e085otbpdd7497d@4ax.com...
>>a lovely plan indeed.
>>
>> On 21 Feb 2008 03:48:46 +1000, "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>I just run in the middle stir it up and haul butt
>>
>
>I was reading on geaslutz that it will be Pro Tools 7.4 Mpowered.
One of Maudios engineers was on hand responding to users questions. One thing
that he stated that was interesting was that.
-"USB2 is fine, but is not as robust as firewire for big audio streams.
- " The reason m-audio has produced these new USB products was due to the
sheer fact that USB is more widley "Available" than firewire on both MAc
& PCs).
So, there is not secret m-audio USB 2 sauce that maybe USB 2 audio interfaces
are ready for primtime..
I'll be getting a 410 or 1814,or just maybe that new Por Fire 26
"Nappy" <juggler9@rock.com> wrote:
>
>Thanks Lamont,I did'nt see it on the M-Powered list.
>
>respect
>Nappy
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Hey Nappy.. Yes it does run PT -M-Powered. That's one ogf the main reasons
>>for styaing with M_audio interfaces..
>>
>>"Nappy" <juggler
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| Re: my next fun endeavor [message #93880 is a reply to message #93879] |
Sat, 22 December 2007 13:00 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
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Senior Member |
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for my laptop.. Is USB 2 ready for
>>>> primetime?
>>>>> I hear that the pres are from the Octane line.
>>>>> http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FastTrackUltra-main.ht ml
>>>>>
>>>>> Anybody know of this unit?? Chris L? Thanks
>>>>
>>>
>>
>God, I wish I could type properly..
Using PT 7.4 as well, although no Leopard support yet, and if I want to use
it (7.4) on pc you have to buy another upgrade, as the 7.3 / 7.4 upgrade is
not cross platform, or so it seems.
Martin H
On 22/02/08 11:03 AM, in article C3E45C9A.1F4A%lendan@bigpond.net.au,
"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> I've been using the M-Audio Pro-Mix control for well over a year now, and
> sounds great, and works a charm.
> Nice sounding convertors, at to my ears for the work I do.
>
> Martin H
>
>
> On 22/02/08 11:30 AM, in article 47be098f$1@linux, "LaMont"
> <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I was reading on geaslutz that it will be Pro Tools 7.4 Mpowered.
>>
>> One of Maudios engineers was on hand responding to users questions. One thing
>> that he stated that was interesting was that.
>>
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| Re: my next fun endeavor [message #93884 is a reply to message #93880] |
Sat, 22 December 2007 12:37 |
Deej
Messages: 130
Registered: September 2006
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Senior Member |
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DK
chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
(859) 635-5762"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:47bea04e$1@linux...
>
> "Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote:
>>
>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:47bba823$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Ok, can you give me a legitimate example of Apple buying market share?
> How about the time they pulled the OS licensing from PowerComputing and
> UMaxx
>>and closed two entire companies and threw all those folks out of work.
> Deej since you mentioned PowerComputing,there are a few things that should
> be noted. As I've said, the cloners ate in to Apple's sales. The clones
> advertised mainly in Mac publications to Mac users, If they had advertised
> in PC publications and did other forms of advertising to non Mac users
> they
> would have grown the market. They didn't, they cherry picked Apple sales.
> One such famous incident was when PowerComputing was directly competing
> with Apple by selling 3000 clones to Apple's long time customer Lockheed
> Martin, that didn't go over to well. PowerComputing also worked a deal
> with
> IBM to get the fastest PowerPC processors before Apple could, this further
> cost Apple sales.
Sounds like Apple made a deal to me that they couldn't handle and
shut it down at the earliest opp regardless of the backlash and damages
incurred. How are you not seein' that bro?
> Steve Jobs went to all the cloners and tried to renegotiate the licensing
> prices, the cloners wouldn't hear of it, so Apple did not renew the
> licensing
> with Mac OS 8.
Um, they HAD a deal already? One Jobs/Apple had already agreed to.
If in
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| Re: my next fun endeavor [message #93888 is a reply to message #93879] |
Sat, 22 December 2007 12:56 |
Deej
Messages: 130
Registered: September 2006
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Senior Member |
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les."
>>
>>And with that, St. Peter escorts him to the elevator
>>and he goes down,
>> down, down to hell. The doors open and he finds
>>himself in the middle
>> of a green golf course. In the distance is a
>>clubhouse and standing in
>> front of it are all his friends and other politicians
>>who had worked
>> with him.
>>
>>Everyone is very happy and in evening dress. They run
>>to greet him,
>> shake his hand, and reminisce about the good times
>>they had while
>> getting rich at the expense of the people. They play
>>a friendly game of golf
>> and then dine on lobster, caviar and champagne.
>>
>>Also present is the devil, who really is a very
>>friendly guy who has a
>> good time dancing and telling jokes. They are having
>>such a good time
>> that before he realizes it, it is time to go.
>>
>>Everyone gives him a hearty farewell and waves while
>>the elevator
>> rises...
>>
>>The elevator goes up, up, up and the door reopens on
>>heaven where St.
>> Peter is waiting for him.
>>
>>"Now it's time to visit heaven."
>>
>>So, 24 hours pass with the senator joining a group of
>>contented souls
>> moving from cloud to cloud, playing the harp and
>>singing. They have a
>> good time and, before he realizes it, the 24 hours
>>have gone by and St.
>> Peter returns.
>>
>>"Well then, you've spent a day in hell and another in
>>heaven. Now choose your eternity."
>>
>>The senator reflects for a minute, then he answers:
>>"Well, I would
>> never have said it before, I mean heaven has been
>>delightful, but I think
>> I would be better off in hell."
>>
>>So St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes
>>down, down, down to hell.
>>
>>Now the doors of the elevator open and he's in the
>>middle of a barren land covered with waste and garbage.
>>
>>He sees all his friends, dressed in rags, picking up
>>the trash and putting it in black bags as more trash falls from
>>above.
>>
>>The devil comes over to him and puts his arm around
>>his shoulder. "I don't understand," stammers the senator. "Yesterday
>>I was here and there was a golf course and clubhouse, and we ate
>>lobster and caviar, drank champagne, and danced and had a great time. Now
>>there's just a wasteland full of garbage and my friends look miserable.
>>What happened?"
>>
>>The devil looks at him, smiles and says, "Yesterday we
>>were campaigning...... Today you voted."
>>
>Me too. the Powercomputing machines were kicking the Apple machines
collective arsses all over the map performance wise. I was about ready to
pull the trigger on a Powercomputing ruig for Paris when Jobs pulled this
little game. when that happened I saw absolutely no difference at all in
Apple and MS from an ethics POV and many more advantages with going PC
instead of buying into a proprietary OS that was lying about it's
performance specs while screwing it's user base by charging three times the
price for a mediocre machine.
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:47bf218e$1@linux...
>
> For the record, it was what Apple did to the cloners that drove me into
> the
> ever welcoming arms of Redmond. I couldn't afford Apple hardware, but I
> could
> afford a Power 603e machine that was my first experience with computer
> audio.
> Less than a year after that Apple shut down the cloners and I realized,
> 'Hey,
> these are greedy corporate bastards just like Microsoft. And Windows
> hardware
> is cheap and I can build my own.' Which lead me to a 400 Mhz Celeron +
> Paris,
> and the rest is (grim, money losing, book publishing) history.
>
> Your story is one version. Another is that Power was a smart, talented,
> agile
> hardware vendor who was beating the daylights out of Apple because they
> were
> everything Apple had long since ceased to be--entrepreneurial and customer
> oriented.
>
> TCB
>
> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>"Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:47bba823$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> Ok, can you give me a legitimate example of Apple buying market share?
>> I
>>>
>>>How about the time the pulled the OS licensing from PowerComputing and
> UMaxx
>>
>>>and closed two entire companies and threw all those folks out of work.
>>>
>>>
>>Deej since you mentioned PowerComputing,there are a few things that should
>>be noted. As I've said, the cloners ate in to Apple's sales. The clones
>>advertised mainly in Mac publications to Mac users, If they had advertised
>>in PC publications and did other forms of advertising to non Mac users
>>they
>>would have grown the market. They didn't, they cherry picked Apple sales.
>> One such famous incident was when PowerCo
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| Re: my next fun endeavor - Deej, here's your answer [message #93895 is a reply to message #93888] |
Sat, 22 December 2007 18:28 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
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Senior Member |
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;ADK
>chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>(859) 635-5762"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Can you give me an example of Apple doing this?
Didn't we just do this and they were just business?
Cheers,
Kim.On 2/22/08 8:36 PM, in article 47bf86b2$1@linux, "James McCloskey"
<excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> What I do expect you to share is the basic idea that NEITHER of them are
>> perfect and NEITHER of them are COMPLETELY evil. They are both a mix.
>> Sometimes
>> they see a competitor and use their power to club them over the head to
> the
>> detriment of all of us. Both of them do it. One has more ability to do it
>> than the other.
>>
>
> Can you give me an example of Apple doing this?
How about more than one:
1) Shake is a $9900 application in 1999 ($3900 render only)
2) Apply buys it, drops the price a couple of times (OSX version less than
other versions), offering free double licenses for users upgrading to OSX.
3) Apple discontinues Windows support for it.
4) Fast forward to 2003, Shake is still $2999 for both OSX and Linux.
5) Apple drops the OSX version price to $499. Linux version remains $2999.
See more here for the price change details and decide for yourself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shake_(software)
Just my opinion, but anytime an app is dropped from $3k to $500, selling
software as a profitable product isn't the goal.
Next:
1) Apple buys Emagic (there's a song in this one somewhere...;-)
2) Drops PC support for Logic promptly.
3) Slow development ensues...then finally core audio appears
4) Apple signs exclusive deal with Apogee for Symphony, Ensemble, etc for
Logic/Mac only
5) Symphony reports lower latency and better performance than other apps
under core audio
6) Speculation (no, I
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| Re: my next fun endeavor - Deej, here's your answer [message #93903 is a reply to message #93895] |
Sat, 22 December 2007 21:40 |
Deej
Messages: 130
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
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om another Nuendo user just today, so might as well pass it on
> here.
>
> I don't hate Apple - but I do hate exclusive deals, and lock outs that do
> nothing but hurt the consumer by limiting options. I have yet to verify
> that core audio really is faster with Apogee interfaces, so take that with a
> grain of salt - Apogee claims they are, of course. Point is, if to get the
> most out of your Mac for audio, you not only have to buy and Apogee
> interface (an Apple partner), but Logic as well, and don't have the option
> of running a MOTU interface, RME, Lynx, M-Audio, etc with any other
> software, your are sacrificing options.
>
> Sounds like a text book Digidesign move to me, but it's Apple doing the
> price cuts and exclusive deals to undercut the market and sell more Macs and
> other Apple-partner products. If there were no Mac support from other
> companies (MOTU, RME, Lynx, etc), you could call it "their product, their
> market", but we are comparing operating systems and computers here, so that
> doesn't stand. It may not be illegal (but I believe it is close), but it is
> hurting consumers.
>
> Regards,
> Dedric
>On 2/22/08 11:22 PM, in article 47bfad7b$1@linux, "James McCloskey"
<excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> A lot of this is speculation, not fact. I will say over the years many
> companies
Maybe, maybe not. So far we haven't found objective Mac users to report
anything scientifically yet. But I'm not the only one looking into this,
and not the only one proposing that Apple is holding back to make other OSX
apps and hardware appear inferior (and that was only one example - there are
others). Some pretty sharp and connected guys are saying this as well, so
there is more than speculation behind it - the numbers aren't adding up
(Nuendo/RME/Lynx aren't performing nearly as well on OSX as on XP, same
hardware - so either Apogee is lying about their 96k 1.6ms performance
stats, or Apple gave only them the keys to the kernel).
Anyone want to loan me a dual quad G5? Seriously. I'm looking for a way to
make this testing happen objectively and accurately, and I know a few other
guys that are as well. If Apple is holding back, users need to know so they
don't go in expecting unrealistic performance, and why. If not, users need
to know which are the best performing software/hardware combos, regardless
of Apple/MS preferences. It's kind of a big deal to a lot of users right
now, where trying to prove/disprove if Microsoft is more or less evil,
really doesn't help us in the least.
Dedric
> dropped support for the Mac platform, one example was when Parsons dropped
> Quick Books for Mac, luckily we got that one back. Mac users have had to
> deal with this for years.
>
> Why should Apple develop for another platform when it does not benefit them?
> They are trying to grow the Mac market not the PC market! I'll remind you
> that they offered PC users special pricing, including on hardware. PC users
> were not left out in the cold. If you haven't noticed, Apple unlike MS,
> sells integrated hardware and software, they have a different business model.
> Yes, they use Hardware and software to push each other.
>
> By the way, if you haven't heard, anti trust cases were brought against
> Microsoft,
> these cases were adjudicated and Microsoft was found guilty. Thanks to Bush
> and friends, MS has gotten a slap on the wrist instead of a break up. MS
> is back to their old tricks.
>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Microsoft
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_v._Microsoft
>
>
> Think what you want!
>
> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>> On 2/22/08 8:36 PM, in article 47bf86b2$1@linux, "James McCloskey"
>> <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> What I do expect you to share is the basic idea that NEITHER of them
> are
>>>> perfect and NEITHER of them are COMPLETELY evil. They are both a mix.
>>>> Sometimes
>>>> they see a competitor and use their power to club them over the head
> to
>>> the
>>>> detriment of all of us. Both of them do it. One has more ability to do
> it
>>>> than the other.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Can you give me an example of Apple doing this?
>>
>> How about more than one:
>>
>> 1) Shake is a $9900 application in 1999 ($3900 render only)
>> 2) Apply buys it, drops the price a couple of times (OSX version less than
>> other versions), offering free double licenses for users upgrading to OSX.
>> 3) Apple discontinues Windows support for it.
>> 4) Fast forward to 2003, Shake is still $2999 for both OSX and Linux.
>> 5) Apple drops the OSX version price to $499. Linux version remains $2999.
>>
>> See more here for the price change details and decide for yourself:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shake_(software)
>>
>> Just my opinion, but anytime an app is dropped from $3k to $500, selling
>> software as a profitable product isn't the goal.
>>
>>
>> Next:
>> 1) Apple buys Emagic (there's a song in this one somewhere...;-)
>> 2) Drops PC support for Logic promptly.
>> 3) Slow development ensues...then finally core audio appears
>> 4) Apple signs exclusive deal with Apogee for Symphony, Ensemble, etc for
>> Logic/Mac only
>> 5) Symphony reports lower latency and better performance than other apps
>> under core audio
>> 6) Speculation (no, I can't prove it - yet) is that Apple gave Apogee lower
>> level access to core audio that isn't in the SDK, thereby giving the
>> Apogee/Logic combo a significant edge over Digital Performer, Nuendo/Cubase,
>> RME, MOTU, Digidesign, etc.
>> 7) Apple drops the price of Logic to $500, with additional software/etc
>> thrown in (imho, this is below average market value for a DAW software and
>> most likely a loss leader).
>> 8) Why? To sell Macs and Apogee interfaces. Logic is priced too low to
> be
>> a profit center - it's just a marketing tool now to expand the Mac's
>> position in consumer, prosumer, hobby, and beginner, lower end musician
>> markets, to the detriment of other 3rd party companies also developing for
>> the platform.
>>
>> In both cases, Apple is using applications to push their hardware, even
>> though there are competing applications, and the Microsoft argument would
>> suggest that using applications and exclusivity of them, and hardware, is
> a
>> conflict of interest for an operating system developer, much less a computer
>> builder.
>>
>> Just my .02 - can't prove it any more than anyone can *prove* Microsoft
> is
>> evil. I don't like MS, but Apple isn't making friends in my end of the
> pro
>> audio world - just putting this in perspective. Btw, I'm not the only one
>> with this supposition - there are some other well respected audio people
> in
>> agreement.
>>
>> Btw - didn't post this to get deeper into an argument - just since you asked
>> for an example, and I had read the same supposition of Apple's move with
>> core audio from another Nuendo user just today, so might as well pass it
> on
>> here.
>>
>> I don't hate Apple - but I do hate exclusive deals, and lock outs that do
>> nothing but hurt the consumer by limiting options. I have yet to verify
>> that core audio really is faster with Apogee interfaces, so take that with
> a
>> grain of salt - Apogee claims they are, of course. Point is, if to get
> the
>> most out of your Mac for audio, you not only have to buy and Apogee
>> interface (an Apple partner), but Logic as well, and don't have the option
>> of running a MOTU interface, RME, Lynx, M-Audio, etc with any other
>> software, your are sacrificing options.
>>
>> Sounds like a text book Digidesign move to me, but it's Apple doing the
>> price cuts and exclusive deals to undercut the market and sell more Macs
> and
>> other Apple-partner products. If there were no Mac support from other
>> companies (MOTU, RME, Lynx, etc), you could call it "their product, their
>> market", but we are comparing operating systems and computers here, so that
>> doesn't stand. It may not be illegal (but I believe it is close), but it
> is
>> hurting consumers.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dedric
>>
>Hey Gibson bought opcode and dropped PC development, what do you think about
that? Hey where's the Mac versions of Cakewalk, sonar, Audition, Acid, Vegas,
Sound forge, etc? What about the slow development of Steinberg products
for Mac? Always a second class citizen.
Did you ever notice that PT plugins cost more than native or VST? Hmmmm...I
wonder why that is???
One other thing I believe the apogee latency thing has to do with the DSP
hardware on the apogee cards, not a special deal??? Not the same hardware.
Someone said that Apple was evil, or just as evil as MS, I took issue with
that.
Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>On 2/22/08 11:22 PM, in article 47bfad7b$1@linux, "James McCloskey"
><excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> A lot of this is speculation, not fact. I will say over the years many
>> companies
>
>Maybe, maybe not. So far we haven't found objective Mac users to report
>anything scientifically yet. But I'm not the only one looking into this,
>and not the only one proposing that Apple is holding back to make other
OSX
>apps and hardware appear inferior (and that was only one example - there
are
>others). Some pretty sharp and connected guys are saying this as well,
so
>there is more than speculation behind it - the numbers aren't adding up
>(Nuendo/RME/Lynx aren't performing nearly as well on OSX as on XP, same
>hardware - so either Apogee is lying about their 96k 1.6ms performance
>stats, or Apple gave only them the keys to the kernel).
>
>Anyone want to loan me a dual quad G5? Seriously. I'm looking for a way
to
>make this testing happen objectively and accurately, and I know a few other
>guys that are as well. If Apple is holding back, users need to know so
they
>don't go in expecting unrealistic performance, and why. If not, users need
>to know which are the best performing software/hardware combos, regardless
>of Apple/MS preferences. It's kind of a big deal to a lot of users right
>now, where trying to prove/disprove if Microsoft is more or less evil,
>really doesn't help us in the least.
>
>Dedric
>
>> dropped support for the Mac platform, one example was when Parsons dropped
>> Quick Books for Mac, luckily we got that one back. Mac users have had
to
>> deal with this for years.
>>
>> Why should Apple develop for another platform when it does not benefit
them?
>> They are trying to grow the Mac market not the PC market! I'll remind
you
>> that they offered PC users special pricing, including on hardware. PC
users
>> were not left out in the cold. If you haven't noticed, Apple unlike MS,
>> sells integrated hardware and software, they have a different business
model.
>> Yes, they use Hardware and software to push each other.
>>
>> By the way, if you haven't heard, anti trust cases were br
|
|
|
|
| Re: my next fun endeavor - Deej, here's your answer [message #93904 is a reply to message #93903] |
Sat, 22 December 2007 23:03 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
ought against
>> Microsoft,
>> these cases were adjudicated and Microsoft was found guilty. Thanks to
Bush
>> and friends, MS has gotten a slap on the wrist instead of a break up.
MS
>> is back to their old tricks.
>>
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Microsoft
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_v._Microsoft
>>
>>
>> Think what you want!
>>
>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>> On 2/22/08 8:36 PM, in article 47bf86b2$1@linux, "James McCloskey"
>>> <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> What I do expect you to share is the basic idea that NEITHER of them
>> are
>>>>> perfect and NEITHER of them are COMPLETELY evil. They are both a mix.
>>>>> Sometimes
>>>>> they see a competitor and use their power to club them over the head
>> to
>>>> the
>>>>> detriment of all of us. Both of them do it. One has more ability to
do
>> it
>>>>> than the other.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Can you give me an example of Apple doing this?
>>>
>>> How about more than one:
>>>
>>> 1) Shake is a $9900 application in 1999 ($3900 render only)
>>> 2) Apply buys it, drops the price a couple of times (OSX version less
than
>>> other versions), offering free double licenses for users upgrading to
OSX.
>>> 3) Apple discontinues Windows support for it.
>>> 4) Fast forward to 2003, Shake is still $2999 for both OSX and Linux.
>>> 5) Apple drops the OSX version price to $499. Linux version remains
$2999.
>>>
>>> See more here for the price change details and decide for yourself:
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shake_(software)
>>>
>>> Just my opinion, but anytime an app is dropped from $3k to $500, selling
>>> software as a profitable product isn't the goal.
>>>
>>>
>>> Next:
>>> 1) Apple buys Emagic (there's a song in this one somewhere...;-)
>>> 2) Drops PC support for Logic promptly.
>>> 3) Slow development ensues...then finally core audio appears
>>> 4) Apple signs exclusive deal with Apogee for Symphony, Ensemble, etc
for
>>> Logic/Mac only
>>> 5) Symphony reports lower latency and better performance than other
apps
>>> under core audio
>>> 6) Speculation (no, I can't prove it - yet) is that Apple gave Apogee
lower
>>> level access to core audio that isn't in the SDK, thereby giving the
>>> Apogee/Logic combo a significant edge over Digital Performer, Nuendo/Cubase,
>>> RME, MOTU, Digidesign, etc.
>>> 7) Apple drops the price of Logic to $500, with additional software/etc
>>> thrown in (imho, this is below average market value for a DAW software
and
>>> most likely a loss leader).
>>> 8) Why? To sell Macs and Apogee interfaces. Logic is priced too low
to
>> be
>>> a profit center - it's just a marketing tool now to expand the Mac's
>>> position in consumer, prosumer, hobby, and beginner, lower end musician
>>> markets, to the detriment of other 3rd party companies also developing
for
>>> the platform.
>>>
>>> In both cases, Apple is using applications to push their hardware, even
>>> though there are competing applications, and the Microsoft argument would
>>> suggest that using applications and exclusivity of them, and hardware,
is
>> a
>>> conflict of interest for an operating system developer, much less a computer
>>> builder.
>>>
>>> Just my .02 - can't prove it any more than anyone can *prove* Microsoft
>> is
>>> evil. I don't like MS, but Apple isn't making friends in my end of the
>> pro
>>> audio world - just putting this in perspective. Btw, I'm not the only
one
>>> with this supposition - there are some other well respected audio people
>> in
>>> agreement.
>>>
>>> Btw - didn't post this to get deeper into an argument - just since you
asked
>>> for an example, and I had read the same supposition of Apple's move with
>>> core audio from another Nuendo user just today, so might as well pass
it
>> on
>>> here.
>>>
>>> I don't hate Apple - but I do hate exclusive deals, and lock outs that
do
>>> nothing but hurt the consumer by limiting options. I have yet to verify
>>> that core audio really is faster with Apogee interfaces, so take that
with
>> a
>>> grain of salt - Apogee claims they are, of course. Point is, if to get
>> the
>>> most out of your Mac for audio, you not only have to buy and Apogee
>>> interface (an Apple partner), but Logic as well, and don't have the option
>>> of running a MOTU interface, RME, Lynx, M-Audio, etc with any other
>>> software, your are sacrificing options.
>>>
>>> Sounds like a text book Digidesign move to me, but it's Apple doing the
>>> price cuts and exclusive deals to undercut the market and sell more Macs
>> and
>>> other Apple-partner products. If there were no Mac support from other
>>> companies (MOTU, RME, Lynx, etc), you could call it "their product, their
>>> market", but we are comparing operating systems and computers here, so
that
>>> doesn't stand. It may not be illegal (but I believe it is close), but
it
>> is
>>> hurting consumers.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dedric
>>>
>>
>Aaron I think your Ok too. Yes we do disagree on some things. I believe
that the G4 was the diesel engine of processors, and a heavy lifter in it's
time. The G4 got long in the tooth, Motorola screwed apple around for a
long time getting out faster processors. It was pay back time. It was a
good thing in the end because Apple had to put out multi processor machines
and develop the OS to keep up.
IBM also screwed Apple around with the G5, they promised Apple 3 GHz Processors
with in a year. Jobs announced it at MacWorld, a year later he had to face
Mac users, I'm sure it was embarrassing. After all the IBM hoopla about
the new plant, the new processor and their relation ship with Apple, they
gave a couple of press releases were they said Apple was insignificant to
their business. When you publicly insult your customer, and you don't meet
your obligations, it shouldn't be a surprise when they go to your competitor.
That's what Apple did. IBM could not get out faster processors on time.
I think you and Deej should both send me you old Mac G4s, I'll even give
you guys something for them if they are running.
"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>
>
>We'll just have to disagree about it I guess. I still like ya and I =
>think you're a cool dude, just a bit misguided :) I find nothing ethical
=
>in the things I've posted about so far and you could post the same kind
=
>of things about MS and we'd see that together. But not the mighty blue =
>apple? Added to that the Jobs li(n)e by li(n)e <-bad pun #1> that was =
>pushed on the public (*).=20
>
>It ain't like I'm saying MS is ethical - they're not, either - but the =
>only thing keeping Apple from being the same ugly foul hairy beast is =
>financial firepower. Gates lies about how great Vista is. It's a turd. =
>Jobs lied about how great Motorola chips were. They were turds. Gates =
>forces you as a business to buy office/OS's through each planned =
>obsolescene upgrade. Jobs tells you to think you're safe from virii as =
>an ad campaign and tells you how Mac runs office 'just as well as a PC'.
=
>but fails to mention it's OLD version of office, years old in fact. =
>There are 60 known virii in the wild for Mac, but you won't hear about =
>that from Jobs/Apple. =20
>
>Apple Ads, speaking of....PC's are cold and harsh and only good at =
>office apps, 'eh? Somebody should tell that to all the video and audio =
>guys that make wonderful art every single day on a windows PC, because =
>they didn't get the memo. I will say that iLife and GarageBand are =
>pretty cool, though not pro of course. I have 2 macs at my avail at =
>work, and several PC's. Frankly, they both tick me off from time to time
=
>but the Win boxes see more use and tick me off a whole lot less. Nothing
=
>like plugging in a KVM and having your Mac reach an unrecoverable error
=
>and forced shutdown because it doesn't like the KVM. Every time. But not
=
>being the latest OS I can't get support for it w/o buying some more =
>"apple care", and Belkin had no idea what would cause it, nor my vendor.
=
> I had been considering a Mini for personal use (with boot camp of =
>course), but that kinda gotcha rather cinched the "think I'll pass for =
>now" for me. MacOS-x 10.29 on dual procs, and it's a foot prop under my
=
>desk now. At least it doesn't crash that way and it's more ergonomic for
=
>my peds, heh... I get a warm fuzzy and smirk when my feet hit it :>
>
>(*) Apple is so much faster, Apple is so much more interesting, Apple is
=
>so much better at.... er, .... hey, it's the new and improved Apple now
=
>with INTEL hardware (IE, that's called a PC Steve-O, and no amount of =
>backpeddling will cover the fact that you were lying through your teeth
=
>about how much faster Motorola's I'd-rather-be-in-a-cell-phone chips =
>were over INTEL) and it's so much better than , uh.. running windows =
>(can't say PC anymore at this point)! Er, wait.. now you can run Windows
=
>on your Apple! (which I don't have a problem with, in fact I applaud =
>that one but don't you think that's rather odd for Apple to say bad =
>windows, bad windows.. hey, you can now run windows?) I also give major
=
>points to that dually quicksilver being WAY cleanly designed inside. =
>Superb visual build inside the box. Too bad it's an ergonomic foot =
>device now.=20
>
>You talked about MS stealing the macOS software GUI. Ok, where did Apple
=
>get their code base from for OS-X? Can't see the worm in both apples, =
>'eh? <-yes, that was bad pun #2.... but I am a punny guy!>
>
>They screwed you as a clone seller even and still you deny. Horse, =
>water, no drinky. You're probably thinking the same thing about the =
>majority here. In all seriousness, I'm glad you have enjoyed your =
>relationships with Mac, I cannot report the same, unfortunately. I =
>absolutely adore my iPOD though, and although iPhone is tre' cool, it's
=
>not cutting it with me on the tech end so it's off the list of 'to buy'.
=
>I also thought that the Cinema Display was about the most beautiful =
>display ever as far back as 4~5 years ago. on the overall though, I =
>didn't like Apple computer kool-aid any better than MS's kool-aid.
>
>You're ok in my book man, so don't take any of this all personal or =
>anything, it's really not meant that way. I haven't forgotten when I had
=
>a problem with a Mac you are the first and only dude offered and =
>followed through to help me out. Some day I'll get a chance to repay in
=
>kind.
>
>AA
>
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:47bf218e$1@linux...
>>=20
>> For the record, it was what Apple did to the cloners that drove me =
>into the
>> ever welcoming arms of Redmond. I couldn't afford Apple hardware, but
=
>I could
>> afford a Power 603e machine that was my first experience with computer
=
>audio.
>> Less than a year after that Apple shut down the cloners and I =
>realized, 'Hey,
>> these are greedy corporate bastards just like Microsoft. And Windows =
>hardware
>> is cheap and I can build my own.' Which lead me to a 400 Mhz Celeron +
=
>Paris,
>> and the rest is (gri
|
|
|
|
| Re: my next fun endeavor - Deej, here's your answer [message #93905 is a reply to message #93904] |
Sat, 22 December 2007 22:11 |
Deej
Messages: 130
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
m, money losing, book publishing) history.=20
>>=20
>> Your story is one version. Another is that Power was a smart, =
>talented, agile
>> hardware vendor who was beating the daylights out of Apple because =
>they were
>> everything Apple had long since ceased to be--entrepreneurial and =
>customer
>> oriented.=20
>>=20
>> TCB
>>=20
>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>"Deej" <noway@jose.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message=20
>>>>news:47bba823$1@linux...
>>>>>
>>>>> Ok, can you give me a legitimate example of Apple buying market =
>share?
>>> I
>>>>
>>>>How about the time the pulled the OS licensing from PowerComputing =
>and
>> UMaxx
>>>
>>>>and closed two entire companies and threw all those folks out of =
>work.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Deej since you mentioned PowerComputing,there are a few things that =
>should
>>>be noted. As I've said, the cloners ate in to Apple's sales. The =
>clones
>>>advertised mainly in Mac publications to Mac users, If they had =
>advertised
>>>in PC publications and did other forms of advertising to non Mac users
=
>they
>>>would have grown the market. They didn't, they cherry picked Apple =
>sales.
>>> One such famous incident was when PowerComputing was directly =
>competing
>>>with Apple by selling 3000 clones to Apple's long time customer =
>Lockheed
>>>Martin, that didn't go over to well. PowerComputing also worked a =
>deal
>> with
>>>IBM to get the fastest PowerPC processors before Apple could, this =
>further
>>>cost Apple sales.
>>>
>>>Steve Jobs went to all the cloners and tried to renegotiate the =
>licensing
>>>prices, the cloners wouldn't hear of it, so Apple did not renew the =
>licensing
>>>with Mac OS 8. Apple did not pull the licensing. The cloners could =
>still
>>>build systems and ship them with Mac OS 7.6 installed, and bundled OS
=
>8,
>>>they chose not to. PowerComputing announced after that, that they =
>were
>> going
>>>to start building PCs, which I think they did for a short time. In =
>the
>> end,
>>>Apple bought out PowerComputing for 100 million dollars in Apple =
>stock.
>>=20
>>>I think that was pretty generous of Apple. I believe it was up to =
>Kahng
>>>to take care of his workers from there.
>>>
>>>As far as UMAX, they continued on for years building scanners and =
>other
>> products
>>>as they did before they made clones.
>>
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><HTML><HEAD>
><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16608" name=3DGENERATOR>
><STYLE></STYLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>We'll just have to disagree about it I guess. I
=
>still like=20
>ya and I think you're a cool dude, just a bit misguided :) I find =
>nothing=20
>ethical in the things I've posted about so far and you could post the =
>same kind=20
>of things about MS and we'd see that together. But not the mighty blue =
>apple?=20
>Added to that the Jobs li(n)e by li(n)e <-bad pun #1> that was =
>pushed on=20
>the public<STRONG> (*).</STRONG> </FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>It ain't like I'm saying MS is ethical - they're
=
>not,=20
>either - but the only thing keeping Apple from being the same ugly =
>foul=20
>hairy beast is financial firepower. Gates lies about how great Vista is.
=
>It's a=20
>turd. Jobs lied about how great Motorola chips were. They were turds. =
>Gates=20
>forces you as a business to buy office/OS's through each planned =
>obsolescene=20
>upgrade. </FONT><FONT face=3DArial>Jobs tells you to think you're =
>safe from=20
>virii as an ad campaign and tells you how Mac runs office 'just as well
=
>as a=20
>PC'. but fails to mention it's OLD version of office, years old in fact.
=
>There=20
>are 60 known virii in the wild for Mac, but you won't =
>hear about=20
>that from Jobs/Apple. </FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Apple Ads, speaking of....PC's are cold and =
>harsh and only=20
>good at office apps, 'eh? Somebody should tell that to all the video and
=
>audio=20
>guys that make wonderful art every single day on a windows PC, because =
>they=20
>didn't get the memo. I will say that iLife and GarageBand are pretty =
>cool,=20
>though not pro of course. I have 2 macs at my avail at work, and several
=
>PC's.=20
>Frankly, they both tick me off from time to time but the Win boxes =
>see more=20
>use and tick me off a whole lot less. Nothing like plugging in a KVM and
=
>having=20
>your Mac reach an unrecoverable error and forced shutdown because =
>it=20
>doesn't like the KVM. Every time. But not being the latest OS I can't =
>get=20
>support for it w/o buying some more "apple care", and Belkin had no idea
=
>what=20
>would cause it, nor my vendor. I had been considering a Mini for =
>personal=20
>use (with boot camp of course), but that kinda gotcha rather cinched the
=
>"think=20
>I'll pass for now" for me. MacOS-x 10.29 on dual procs, and it's a foot
=
>prop=20
>under my desk now. At least it doesn't crash that way and it's more =
>ergonomic=20
>for my peds, heh... I get a warm fuzzy and smirk when my feet =
>hit it=20
>:></FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial><STRONG>(*)</STRONG> Apple is so much =
>faster, Apple=20
>is so much more interesting, Apple is so much better at.... er, .... =
>hey, it's=20
>the new and improved Apple now with INTEL hardware (IE, that's called a
=
>PC=20
>Steve-O, and no amount of backpeddling will cover the fact that you were
=
>lying=20
>through your teeth about how much=20
>faster Motorola's I'd-rather-be-in-a-cell-phone chips were =
>over INTEL)=20
>and it's so much better than , uh.. running windows (can't say PC =
>anymore at=20
>this point)! Er, wait.. now you can run Windows on your Apple! (which I
=
>don't=20
>have a problem with, in fact I applaud that one but don't you think =
>that's=20
>rather odd for Apple to say bad windows, bad windows.. hey, you can now
=
>run=20
>windows?) I also give major points to that dually quicksilver being WAY
=
>cleanly=20
>designed inside. Superb visual build inside the box. Too bad it's an =
>ergonomic=20
>foot device now. </FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>You talked about MS stealing the macOS software
=
>GUI. Ok,=20
>where did Apple get their code base from for OS-X? Can't see the worm in
=
>both=20
>apples, 'eh? <-yes, that was bad pun #2.... but I am a punny=20
>guy!></FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>They screwed you as a clone seller even and =
>still you=20
>deny. Horse, water, no drinky. You're probably thinking the same =
>thing=20
>about the majority here. In all seriousness, I'm glad you have =
>enjoyed your=20
>relationships with Mac, I cannot report the same, unfortunately. I =
>absolutely=20
>adore my iPOD though, and although iPhone is tre' cool, it's not cutting
=
>it with=20
>me on the tech end so it's off the list of 'to buy'. I also thought that
=
>the=20
>Cinema Display was about the most beautiful display ever as far back as
=
>4~5=20
>years ago. on the overall though, I didn't like Apple =
>computer kool-aid any=20
>better than MS's kool-aid.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>You're ok in my book man, so don't take any of =
>this all=20
>personal or anything, it's really not meant that way. I haven't =
>forgotten when I=20
>had a problem with a Mac you are the first and only dude offered and =
>followed=20
>through to help me out. Some day I'll get a chance to repay in=20
>kind.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>AA</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"TCB" <</FONT><A=20
>href=3D"mailto:nobody@ishere.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>size=3D2>nobody@ishere.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> =
>wrote in message=20
></FONT><A href=3D"news:47bf218e$1@linux"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>size=3D2>news:47bf218e$1@linux</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
>size=3D2>...</FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> <BR>> For =
>the record, it=20
>was what Apple did to the cloners that drove me into the<BR>> ever =
>welcoming=20
>arms of Redmond. I couldn't afford Apple hardware, but I could<BR>> =
>afford a=20
>Power 603e machine that was my first experience with computer =
>audio.<BR>>=20
>Less than a year after that Apple shut down the cloners and I realized,=20
>'Hey,<BR>> these are greedy corporate bastards just like Microsoft. =
>And=20
>Windows hardware<BR>> is cheap and I can build my own.' Which lead me =
>to a=20
>400 Mhz Celeron + Paris,<BR>> and the rest is (grim, money losing, =
>book=20
>publishing) history. <BR>> <BR>> Your story is one version. =
>Another is=20
>that Power was a smart, talented, agile<BR>> hardware vendor who was =
>beating=20
>the daylights out of Apple because they were<BR>> everything Apple =
>had long=20
>since ceased to be--entrepreneurial and customer<BR>> oriented. =
><BR>>=20
><BR>> TCB<BR>> <BR>> "James McCloskey" <</FONT><A=20
>href=3D"mailto:excelsm@hotmail.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>size=3D2>excelsm@hotmail.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>=20
>wrote:<BR>>><BR>>>"Deej" <</FONT><A=20
>href=3D"mailto:noway@jose.net"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>size=3D2>noway@jose.net</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>=20
>wrote:<BR>>>><BR>>>>"James McCloskey" <</FONT><A=20
>href=3D"mailto:excelsm@hotmail.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>size=3D2>excelsm@hotmail.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> =
>wrote in=20
>message=20
><BR>>>>news:47bba823$1@linux...<BR>>>>><BR>>>&=
>gt;>=20
>Ok, can you give me a legitimate example of Apple buying market=20
>share?<BR>>> I<BR>>>><BR>>>>How about the time =
>the=20
>pulled the OS licensing from PowerComputing and<BR>>=20
>UMaxx<BR>>><BR>>>>and closed two entire companies and =
>threw all=20
>those folks out of work.<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>Deej =
>since=20
>you mentioned PowerComputing,there are a few things that =
>should<BR>>>be=20
>noted. As I've said, the cloners ate in to Apple's sales. =
>The=20
>clones<BR>>>advertised mainly in Mac publications to Mac users, If =
>they=20
>had advertised<BR>>>in PC publications and did other forms of =
>advertising=20
>to non Mac users they<BR>>>would have grown the market. They =
>didn't,=20
>they cherry picked Apple sales.<BR>>> One such famous incident was =
>when=20
>PowerComputing was directly competing<BR>>>with Apple by selling =
>3000=20
>clones to Apple's long time customer Lockheed<BR>>>Martin, that =
>didn't go=20
>over to well. PowerComputing also worked a deal<BR>>=20
>with<BR>>>IBM to get the fastest PowerPC processors before Apple =
>could,=20
>this further<BR>>>cost Apple
|
|
|
|
| Re: my next fun endeavor - Deej, here's your answer [message #93927 is a reply to message #93905] |
Sun, 23 December 2007 18:21 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
;>Frankly, they both tick me off from time to time but the Win boxes =
>>see more=20
>>use and tick me off a whole lot less. Nothing like plugging in a KVM and
> =
>>having=20
>>your Mac reach an unrecoverable error and forced shutdown because =
>>it=20
>>doesn't like the KVM. Every time. But not being the latest OS I can't =
>>get=20
>>support for it w/o buying some more "apple care", and Belkin had no idea
> =
>>what=20
>>would cause it, nor my vendor. I had been considering a Mini for =
>>personal=20
>>use (with boot camp of course), but that kinda gotcha rather cinched the
> =
>>"think=20
>>I'll pass for now" for me. MacOS-x 10.29 on dual procs, and it's a foot
> =
>>prop=20
>>under my desk now. At least it doesn't crash that way and it's more =
>>ergonomic=20
>>for my peds, heh... I get a warm fuzzy and smirk when my feet =
>>hit it=20
>>:></FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial><STRONG>(*)</STRONG> Apple is so much =
>>faster, Apple=20
>>is so much more interesting, Apple is so much better at.... er, .... =
>>hey, it's=20
>>the new and improved Apple now with INTEL hardware (IE, that's called a
> =
>>PC=20
>>Steve-O, and no amount of backpeddling will cover the fact that you were
> =
>>lying=20
>>through your teeth about how much=20
>>faster Motorola's I'd-rather-be-in-a-cell-phone chips were =
>>over INTEL)=20
>>and it's so much better than , uh.. running windows (can't say PC =
>>anymore at=20
>>this point)! Er, wait.. now you can run Windows on your Apple! (which I
> =
>>don't=20
>>have a problem with, in fact I applaud that one but don't you think =
>>that's=20
>>rather odd for Apple to say bad windows, bad windows.. hey, you can now
> =
>>run=20
>>windows?) I also give major points to that dually quicksilver being WAY
> =
>>cleanly=20
>>designed inside. Superb visual build inside the box. Too bad it's an =
>>ergonomic=20
>>foot device now. </FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>You talked about MS stealing the macOS software
> =
>>GUI. Ok,=20
>>where did Apple get their code base from for OS-X? Can't see the worm in
> =
>>both=20
>>apples, 'eh? <-yes, that was bad pun #2.... but I am a punny=20
>>guy!></FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>They screwed you as a clone seller even and =
>>still you=20
>>deny. Horse, water, no drinky. You're probably thinking the same =
>>thing=20
>>about the majority here. In all seriousness, I'm glad you have =
>>enjoyed your=20
>>relationships with Mac, I cannot report the same, unfortunately. I =
>>absolutely=20
>>adore my iPOD though, and although iPhone is tre' cool, it's not cutting
> =
>>it with=20
>>me on the tech end so it's off the list of 'to buy'. I also thought that
> =
>>the=20
>>Cinema Display was about the most beautiful display ever as far back as
> =
>>4~5=20
>>years ago. on the overall though, I didn't like Apple =
>>computer kool-aid any=20
>>better than MS's kool-aid.</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>You're ok in my book man, so don't take any of =
>>this all=20
>>personal or anything, it's really not meant that way. I haven't =
>>forgotten when I=20
>>had a problem with a Mac you are the first and only dude offered and =
>>followed=20
>>through to help me out. Some day I'll get a chance to repay in=20
>>kind.</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial>AA</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"TCB" <</FONT><A=20
>>href=3D"mailto:nobody@ishere.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>size=3D2>nobody@ishere.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> =
>>wrote in message=20
>></FONT><A href=3D"news:47bf218e$1@linux"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>size=3D2>news:47bf218e$1@linux</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>size=3D2>...</FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> <BR>> For =
>>the record, it=20
>>was what Apple did to the cloners that drove me into the<BR>> ever =
>>welcoming=20
>>arms of Redmond. I couldn't afford Apple hardware, but I could<BR>> =
>>afford a=20
>>Power 603e machine that was my first experience with computer =
>>audio.<BR>>=20
>>Less than a year after that Apple shut down the cloners and I realized,=20
>>'Hey,<BR>> these are greedy corporate bastards just like Microsoft. =
>>And=20
>>Windows hardware<BR>> is cheap and I can build my own.' Which lead me =
>>to a=20
>>400 Mhz Celeron + Paris,<BR>> and the rest is (grim, money losing, =
>>book=20
>>publishing) history. <BR>> <BR>> Your story is one version. =
>>Another is=20
>>that Power was a smart, talented, agile<BR>> hardware vendor who was =
>>beating=20
>>the daylights out of Apple because they were<BR>> everything Apple =
>>had long=20
>>since ceased to be--entrepreneurial and customer<BR>> oriented. =
>><BR>>=20
>><BR>> TCB<BR>> <BR>> "James McCloskey" <</FONT><A=20
>>href=3D"mailto:excelsm@hotmail.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>size=3D2>excelsm@hotmail.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>=20
>>wrote:<BR>>><BR>>>"Deej" <</FONT><A=20
>>href=3D"mailto:noway@jose.net"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>size=3D2>noway@jose.net</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>=20
>>wrote:<BR>>>><BR>>>>"James McCloskey" <</FONT><A=20
>>href=3D"mailto:excelsm@hotmail.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>size=3D2>excelsm@hotmail.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> =
>>wrote in=20
>>message=20
>><BR>>>>news:47bba823$1@linux...<BR>>>>><BR>>>&=
>>gt;>=20
>>Ok, can you give me a legitimate example of Apple buying market=20
>>share?<BR>>> I<BR>>>><BR>>>>How about the time =
>>the=20
>>pulled the OS licensing from PowerComputing and<BR>>=20
>>UMaxx<BR>>><BR>>>>and closed two entire companies and =
>>threw all=20
>>those folks out of work.<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>Deej =
>>since=20
>>you mentioned PowerComputing,there are a few things that =
>>should<BR>>>be=20
>>noted. As I've said, the cloners ate in to Apple's sales. =
>>The=20
>>clones<BR>>>advertised mainly in Mac publications to Mac users, If =
>>they=20
>>had advertised<BR>>>in PC publications and did other forms of =
>>advertising=20
>>to non Mac users they<BR>>>would have grown the market. They =
>>didn't,=20
>>they cherry picked Apple sales.<BR>>> One such famous incident was =
>>when=20
>>PowerComputing was directly competing<BR>>>with Apple by selling =
>>3000=20
>>clones to Apple's long time customer Lockheed<BR>>>Martin, that =
>>didn't go=20
>>over to well. PowerComputing also worked a deal<BR>>=20
>>with<BR>>>IBM to get the fastest PowerPC processors before Apple =
>>could,=20
>>this further<BR>>>cost Apple sales.<BR>>><BR>>>Steve =
>>Jobs went=20
>>to all the cloners and tried to renegotiate the =
>>licensing<BR>>>prices, the=20
>>cloners wouldn't hear of it, so Apple did not renew the=20
>>licensing<BR>>>with Mac OS 8. Apple did not pull the=20
>>licensing. The cloners could still<BR>>>build systems and =
>>ship them=20
>>with Mac OS 7.6 installed, and bundled OS 8,<BR>>>they chose not =
>>to. =20
>>PowerComputing announced after that, that they were<BR>> =
>>going<BR>>>to=20
>>start building PCs, which I think they did for a short time. In=20
>>the<BR>> end,<BR>>>Apple bought out PowerComputing for 100 =
>>million=20
>>dollars in Apple stock.<BR>> <BR>>>I think that was pretty =
>>generous of=20
>>Apple. I believe it was up to Kahng<BR>>>to take care of his =
>>workers=20
>>from there.<BR>>><BR>>>As far as UMAX, they continued on for =
>>years=20
>>building scanners and other<BR>> products<BR>>>as they did =
>>before they=20
>>made clones.<BR>></FONT></BODY></HTML>
>>
>>
>Behringers brother ?Aaron
The Steinerphone is a "midi" trumpet controller. It uses fingering similar
to the 3 valves of a trumpet that work by touch, with some other modifications.
It makes no sound of it's own and is attached to it's own synthesizer, which
in turn can also be linked or sent out to other synth modules. The nice
thing is I can play up to 8 octaves with it, and have quite a bit of control
over the sound. You don't vibrate your lips as you do in a trumpet mouthpiece
cup, you just blow into a rubber mouthpiece, which if you bite into it and
bend it a little will allow you to glissando up or down. You can also bend
notes, and use natural vibrato and use different types of attack. You can
also play chords with it. So it is a very expressive instrument. I NEVER
use it with trumpet patches. Don't like them, and I can play my own with
my regular trumpet, but I use it with sounds I find "interesting." It is
fun to be able to play another instrument that is familiar in the fingering
sense, yet so different in timber. I can play drums or piano or strings
or anything I want with it. I use it to compose sometimes too. A very
high tech instrument and no toy! The model I have has been discontinues
by Akai, but I believe there are newer models available if people are interested.
It also has a saxophone sister, which Michael Brecker used to play called
the EWI (Electronic Wind Instrument). Mine is also called the EVI (Electronic
Valve Instrument). Out of respect, I call it (and so do they) the Steinerphone
after Niles Steiner, it's inventor, who worked with Akai to have it produced.
Hope that helps.
Lou
"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>dig on the Steinerphone... how's it play man?
>
>AA
>
>"Louis Guarino Jr." <kateeba@snet.net> wrote in message
>news:47bf70a0$1@linux...
>>
>> Wow! After a long, long time, I finally got my 2nd CD finished and made.
>> It was recorded entirely in Paris, and mastered entirely in Paris by our
>> own Sakis. It is called, "Images of Movements thru Time and Space."
>>
>> It is a bit difficult to categorize, as it has roots in jazz due to the
>> improvisation involved, yet it also has classical and avant garde roots.
>> There is more information about the CD, along with some mp3 samples on
>> my site at www.enchantedvibrations.net
>>
>> I even got Gene Lennon involved in checking out my mixes early on. I
>> have
>> some GREAT players joining me, including guitarist Michael Gregory.
>> Check
>> it out.
>>
>> Lou Guarino
>
>HI Aaron,
Well OK maybe not that bad. :)
But at least they aren't afraid to post their warranty.
http://www.tascam.com/go;33,2027.html
At least most of Behringer's stuff is 1 year.
Chris
Aaron Allen wrote:
> Worse than TASCAM/GIGA????
>
>
> "Chris Ludwig" <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote in message
> news:47bf6ada@linux...
>
>> HI Lamont,
>> All that and still the worst support and worst warranty in the business.
>>
>>
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> LaMont wrote:
>>
>>> Just got off of the Motus site to see the new 828 MkIII..WOW!!
>>>
>>> Take a look at the setup. The nice mixer with EQ, lim, & Verb. As well as
>>> the Control Room section. Nice touch..
>>>
>>> http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/828mk3/images/mix_lar ge.jpg/image_view_fullscreen
>>>
>>> http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/828mk3/cuemix-fx.html
>>>
>>> http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/828mk3
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Chris Ludwig
>>
>> ADK Pro Audio
>> (859) 635-5762
>> www.adkproaudio.com
>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com
>>
>
>
>
--
Chris Ludwig
ADK
chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
www.adkproa
|
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|
| Re: my next fun endeavor - Deej, here's your answer [message #93933 is a reply to message #93927] |
Sun, 23 December 2007 20:55 |
Deej
Messages: 130
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
x, "James McCloskey"
<excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hey Gibson bought opcode and dropped PC development, what do you think about
> that? Hey where's the Mac versions of Cakewalk, sonar, Audition, Acid, Vegas,
> Sound forge, etc? What about the slow development of Steinberg products
> for
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