Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Terrorist plot foiled
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| Re: Terrorist plot foiled [message #71041 is a reply to message #71039] |
Thu, 10 August 2006 12:26   |
DC
Messages: 722
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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band.
In general the smaller cabs have a harder time with the low end
unless they're open back but then it's a little uncontrolled
due to rear reflections, wall and stage resonance. If you end up=20
having to over eq to get it, it won't sound natural. I love to see =
my=20
pants get wind torn from the low end as long as it's tight.
My buddy used to have that same rig if I'm not mistaken.
He used Thiele cabs with it. It sounded really good. I'm=20
not sure it sounded as good as it could with the Thiele=20
cabs though. Nice to spread them out for stereo!
Good luck with your search,
Tom
"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote in message =
news:450a3340@linux...
Good info.... I like the idea of the smaller cab, and the lower =
wattage=20
speaks, but I'm a little spooked at the total lack of specs =
locatable on the=20
net about these guys... I don't want a cab that can't get anything =
under say=20
90hz... that'd suck.
Hemp cone, eh?
I wonder if they'll just lay around eating Cheetos, watching TV =
and react=20
sluggishly when I ask them to help around the house or get a job =
:)
We agree on the alnico/ceramic debate. Like Alnico in a pickup.. =
not so much=20
in a speaker.
AA
"DC" <dc@spammersatGC.com> wrote in message =
news:450a2ec6$1@linux...
>
> I think the cheaper cabinet will most likely involve the chinese
> made celestions which I have not heard good things about.
>
> You really need to hear a cabinet with your amp. There are
> big differences to be found.
>
>
> At last year's NAMM, I was really knocked out by the
> Tone Tubby hempcone speakers.
>
> They have 4x12's.
>
> http://www.tonetubby.com/cabinet.htm
>
> Very impressive and at reasonable levels too.
>
> BTW, I like the punch and clarity of ceramic magnet speakers
> much better than the over-rated AlNiCo. Much more dynamic.
>
> So, you could get a TT ceramic 4x12 for 1100 or so. I think
> they just sound amazing.
>
> DC
>
>
>
> "Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>I'm looking at picking up a 4x12 to club gig with. Anybody got =
experience
> to
>>share with me about these models??
>>Is there 'really' a $1000 dollars worth of difference in tone =
from bottom
> to
>>top with them, is it mechanics (like say, casters and handles)?
>>I will be driving it with a 60wpc tube amp with a tube preamp =
front end.
> I
>>want the elusive 'brown sound' distortion and super clear =
cleans... which
>
>>the amp/preamp combo is certainly capable of giving me. It's the =
cabs that
>
>>suck on my current gear (2 unmatched 2x12's) - I wish to move to =
one=20
>>stereo
>
>>matched cab, and I'm not afraid to rewire it if that matters.
>>Many thanks in advance!
>>
>>
>>https://www.zzounds.com/item--MSHMG412A
>>$450.00 $279.95
>>Angled-front version.
>>Power: 120 watts
>>Impedance: 8 ohms
>>Speakers: 4 x 12 in. Marshall/Celestion custom-designed speakers =
(30W=20
>>each)
>>Dimensions (W x H x D): 26.4 x 26.4 x 14.0 in.
>>
>>
>>http://www.zzounds.com/item--MSH1960A
>>$1,150.00 $649.95
>>Angled-front version.
>>Black grille cloth
>>White piping
>>Black elephant grain vinyl
>>Speaker: 4 x 12 in. G12T-75
>>Power: 300 watt
>>Impedance: 4 or 16 ohms mono/8 ohms stereo
>>Dimensions: 760 x 830 x 360mm
>>Weight: 36.4 kg
>>
>>
>>http://www.zzounds.com/item--MSH1960AX
>>$1,500.00 $1,049.00
>>Angled front
>>Vintage-circa early 70's
>>Checkered cloth
>>White piping
>>Medium size white logo
>>Black Levant vinyl
>>Gold beading on Cab
>>Speakers: 4 Celestion G12 M-25w SPKR-00016
>>Power: 100 watts
>>Impedance: 16 ohm
>>Dimensions: 760 x 830 x 360 mm
>>Weight: 37.7 kg
>>Cover: COVR-00022 optional
>>
>>
>>http://www.zzounds.com/item--MSH1960AHW
>>$1,800.00 $1,200.00
>>Loaded with Celestion G12H-30 re-issue speakers.
>>To complement the 1959HW's visual and sonic majesty, Marshall =
offers the
>
>>1960AHW (angled) 4x12 cabinet. It boasts basket weave fret =
cloth, metal
>
>>handles, "100" logos, and is loaded with Celestion's =
highly-acclaimed
>>G12H-30 re-issue speakers.
>>
>>
>>
>=20
I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yes</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Aaron Allen" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:know-spam@not_here.dude">know-spam@not_here.dude</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A =
href=3D"news:450a3e45@linux">news:450a3e45@linux</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Same rig.. you mean my pre and amp=20
setup?</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Tom Bruhl" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A =
href=3D"news:450a3d8f@linux">news:450a3d8f@linux</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Aaron,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Matching amp/cabs are a no brainer =
but not=20
always exactly right.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>But the right speakers can sound =
like ass in a=20
bad cab too.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>These days we are required to get =
all the=20
guitar sounds on every</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>CD when in a cover situation. =
It's harder=20
than a one sound only band.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In general the smaller cabs have a =
harder time=20
with the low end</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>unless they're open back but then =
it's a little=20
uncontrolled</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>due to rear reflections, wall and =
stage=20
resonance. </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If you end up =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>having to over eq to </FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>get it, it won't sound </FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>natural. =20
I love to see my </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>pants get </FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>wind=20
torn from the </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>low end as long as =
it's=20
tight.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My buddy used to have that same rig =
if I'm not=20
mistaken.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>He used Thiele cabs with it. =
It sounded=20
really good. I'm </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>not sure it sounded as good as it =
could with=20
the Thiele </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>cabs though. Nice to spread =
them out for=20
stereo!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Good luck with your =
search,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>"Aaron Allen" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:know-spam@not_here.dude">know-spam@not_here.dude</A>> =
wrote=20
in message <A =
href=3D"news:450a3340@linux">news:450a3340@linux</A>...</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">Good=20
info.... I like the idea of the smaller cab, and the lower wattage =
<BR>speaks, but I'm a little spooked at the total lack of specs =
locatable=20
on the <BR>net about these guys... I don't want a cab that can't =
get=20
anything under say <BR>90hz... that'd suck.<BR><BR>Hemp cone, =
eh?<BR>I=20
wonder if they'll just lay around eating Cheetos, watching TV and =
react=20
<BR>sluggishly when I ask them to help around the house or get a =
job=20
:)<BR><BR>We agree on the alnico/ceramic debate. Like Alnico in a =
pickup..=20
not so much <BR>in a speaker.<BR><BR>AA<BR><BR>"DC" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:dc@spammersatGC.com">dc@spammersatGC.com</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:450a2ec6$1@linux">news:450a2ec6$1@linux</A>...<BR>><BR>&g=
t;=20
I think the cheaper cabinet will most likely involve the =
chinese<BR>>=20
made celestions which I have not heard good things =
about.<BR>><BR>>=20
You really need to hear a cabinet with your amp. There =
are<BR>>=20
big differences to be found.<BR>><BR>><BR>> At last =
year's NAMM,=20
I was really knocked out by the<BR>> Tone Tubby hempcone=20
speakers.<BR>><BR>> They have 4x12's.<BR>><BR>> <A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.tonetubby.com/cabinet.htm">http://www.tonetubby.com/ca=
binet.htm</A><BR>><BR>>=20
Very impressive and at reasonable levels too.<BR>><BR>> BTW, =
I like=20
the punch and clarity of ceramic magnet speakers<BR>> much =
better than=20
the over-rated AlNiCo. Much more =
dynamic.<BR>><BR>> So,=20
you could get a TT ceramic 4x12 for 1100 or so. I =
think<BR>> they=20
just sound amazing.<BR>><BR>> =
DC<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>=20
"Aaron Allen" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:know-spam@not_here.dude">know-spam@not_here.dude</A>>=20
wrote:<BR>>>I'm looking at picking up a 4x12 to club gig =
with.=20
Anybody got experience<BR>> to<BR>>>share with me about =
these=20
models??<BR>>>Is there 'really' a $1000 dollars worth of =
difference=20
in tone from bottom<BR>> to<BR>>>top with them, is it =
mechanics=20
(like say, casters and handles)?<BR>>>I will be driving it =
with a=20
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| Re: Terrorist plot foiled [message #71045 is a reply to message #71043] |
Thu, 10 August 2006 14:07 |
DC
Messages: 722
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
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/>
MSH1960AHW<BR> >>$1,800.00 & nbsp;=20
$1,200.00<BR>>>Loaded with Celestion G12H-30 re-issue=20
speakers.<BR>>>To complement the 1959HW's visual and sonic =
majesty,=20
Marshall offers the<BR>><BR>>>1960AHW (angled) 4x12 =
cabinet. It=20
boasts basket weave fret cloth, metal<BR>><BR>>>handles, =
"100"=20
logos, and is loaded with Celestion's =
highly-acclaimed<BR>>>G12H-30=20
re-issue speakers.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> <BR>>=20
<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR><BR>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight =
spam, and=20
you?<BR><A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html">http://www.polesoft.com/refer=
..html</A> </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE ></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY>=
</HTML>
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Aaron,
I just emailed my friend to see if it's exactly what he used.
I also asked what would give you the tone you desire.
Clear clean, brown dist and good bottom. He is a guitar
tone fanatic. His suggestions may also be something to look=20
into.=20
I may have some older recorded stuff of his around here. I'll look for =
it.
I have a huge weekend of work so it may be a few days if at all.
Tom
"Tom B
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| Re: Terrorist plot foiled [message #71205 is a reply to message #71190] |
Mon, 14 August 2006 11:09 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
> > "Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote in message
>> > news:450b60d5@linux...
>> > > yup
>> > >
>> > > "Uptown Jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> > > news:450b5d6b@linux...
>> > >> Ummm, I'm sorta freaked out and wanting precision right now. You
>mean,
>> > >> "That's the ticket", right?
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> "Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote in message
>> > >> news:450b5c7c@linux...
>> > >>> That's your daisy.
>> > >>> AA
>> > >>>
>> > >>> "Uptown Jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> > >>> news:450b584d@linux...
>> > >>>> The only thing I can see for this is to "clear the Real Time Clock
>> RAM
>> > >>>> in CMOS". This would "clear the CMOS memory of date, time, and
>system
>> > >>>> setup parameters by erasing the CMOS RTC RAM data".
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> This involves removing the onboard battery and moving jumper cap
>from
>> > >>>> pins 1-2 to pins 2-3., then back to pins 1-2, then reinstalling
the
>> > >>>> battery. It says you have to enter the BIOS and re-enter data.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> Is this the thing to do?
>> > >>>> "Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
>> > >>>> news:450b4d10@linux...
>> > >>>>> All you need do is reset the BIOS by shorting out the relevant
>> jumper
>> > >>>>> on the motherboard...it's in the manual.
>> > >>>>> --
>> > >>>>> Martin Harrington
>> > >>>>> www.lendanear-sound.com
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> "Uptown Jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> > >>>>> news:450b4198@linux...
>> > >>>>>>I disabledall but the com1 and lpt 1. Can't find them.
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>> Bad news is, and this is really bad news, computer won't boot
up.
>> On
>> > >>>>>> that blcak page that n ow doesn't flash by so fast at all, I
get
>> the
>> > >>>>>> error message "USB device over current status detected". Then
the
>> > >>>>>> computer shuts down. Won't boot up, won't let me go to BIOS to
>fix
>> > >>>>>> it.
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>> Heeeeeelp!
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:450b3aac$1@linux...
>> > >>>>>>> It looks like another messed up Asus manual. I downloaded
the
>> > >>>>>>> manual and on page 2-18 it has that pic. I would turn off Com1
>> > >>>>>>> (irq4), floppy (irq 6), lpt1 (irq 7), Serial port, turn off
>> onboard
>> > >>>>>>> audio and USB, Keep the LAN on so you can network but I would
>try
>> > >>>>>>> only slots 3 and 4 only first. Notice how they don't even show
>> audio
>> > >>>>>>> sharing with anything. This diagram is craptastic.
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>> And turn off Hyper Threading.
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>> Do ME and favor and call them on the phone and ask then what
the
>> > >>>>>>> hell is this diagram means. Simply, what slots share with
>what?
>> > >>>>>>> Inquiring minds !
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>> John
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>> Uptown Jimmy wrote:
>> > >>>>>>>> I guess I don't understand what the Alphabetized row indicates.
>> In
>> > >>>>>>>> other
>> > >>>>>>>> words, if PCI slot 1 "shared
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| Re: Terrorist plot foiled...Christians has Lost focus [message #71207 is a reply to message #71205] |
Mon, 14 August 2006 11:46 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
t;>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:450af67f$1@linux...
>> > >>>>>>>>> Use the second section that shows what are shared. Then make
>> sure
>> > >>>>>>>>> your
>> > >>>>>>>> EDS
>> > >>>>>>>>> cards are NOT on them. For example, turn off onboard audio
>in
>> > >>>>>>>>> bios and
>> > >>>>>>>>> now you can use the slot that shares with onboard audio.
Any
>> > >>>>>>>>> device that
>> > >>>>>>>>> you are using like AGP video you DO NOT want an EDS card to
be
>> on
>> > >>>>>>>>> a shared
>> > >>>>>>>>> slot.
>> > >>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>> On boot up check to make sure that the black screen that
>flashes
>> > >>>>>>>>> by shows
>> > >>>>>>>>> this correctly.
>> > >>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>> "Uptown Jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> > >>>>>>>>>> Okay, on the IRQ page in the manual, it has two sections:
>> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>> 1. "Standard interrupt assignments", which list IRQ numbers
>and
>> > >>>>>>>>>> their
>> > >>>>>>>>>> "standard function". (This section does list 7 "IRQs are
>> usually
>> > >>>>>>>> available
>> > >>>>>>>>>> for PCI devices")
>> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>> 2. "IRQ" assignments for this motherboard", which graphs
>> various
>> > >>>>>>>>>> PCI
>> > >>>>>>>> slots
>> > >>>>>>>>>> or USB controllers as "nil", "shared", or "used" against
>> letters
>> > >>>>>>>>>> of the
>> > >>>>>>>>>> alphabet.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>> I don't know how to use these two sets of data to resolve
my
>> > >>>>>>>>>> problem.
>> > >>>>>>>> They
>> > >>>>>>>>>> seem incompatible. I feel ignernt.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
>> > >>>>>>>>>> news:450a0f48@linux...
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Hmmm.....well .......letsee.........ASUS boards normally
>will
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> have the
>> > >>>>>>>>> AGP
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> sharing an IRQ with two PCI slots, basically making these
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> worthless for
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> anything else.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> How many PCI slots does your mobo have?
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> If it's a 5 slot board and it's similar to an AMD board,
>> chances
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> are
>> > >>>>>>>> that
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> PCI slots 1 and 5 are shared with the AGP and the firewire
>> port
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> (thus
>> > >>>>>>>>>> making
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> FW audio interfaces iffy also if using the onboard FW)
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> PCI slot 2 may share with your LAN controller
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> PCI #3 may share with onboard RAID and SATA controller
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> PCI 4 may not share with anything.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> This is the way the ASUS A8V mobo is configured but it's
for
>> AMD
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> CPU's.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Do you have the manual? All of this is listed in chapter
2
>> under
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> the
>> > >>>>>>>>>> heading
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Interrupt Assignments. It should be noted for Intel mobo's
>as
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> well.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> If it's 6, try putting the EDS card in PCI 2, 3, 4 or 5
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> If it's 5, try PCI slot 1,
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> "Uptown Jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> news:4509fd03@linux...
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> It's an Asus P5P800 SE board with a Pentium 4 HT chip.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> news:4509f8fc@linux.
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| Re: Terrorist plot foiled...Christians has Lost focus [message #71211 is a reply to message #71207] |
Mon, 14 August 2006 13:36 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
gt;>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IRQ!! IRQ!! IRQ!!
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This sounds exactly like the EDS card is sharing and
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interrupt
>> > >>>>>>>>> with
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> the
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AGP
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slot.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Uptown Jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote in
>message
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:45098f86$1@linux...
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi-ho.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am still having trouble with my Paris rig. In an
>effort
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> simplify
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things,
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I only have one card installed, with an MEC attached,
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> internal
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> clocking.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Basically, my problems are down to two:
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1.The "now-line" freezes, or more actually begins
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuttering in
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> extremely
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slow-motion, almost glacial. I can still change
>windows,
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I
>> > >>>>>>>>> am
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> able
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> save and close, then re-open Paris with success.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2.On starting Paris, I get an error message: "I/O
>modules
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> used
>> > >>>>>>>>> in
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> this
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> patch
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> setting not avaiable in this configuration of Paris.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Resulting
>> > >>>>>>>>>> audio
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> may
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be different than when saved." This will pop up 2 or
4
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> times,
>> > >>>>>>>>> and
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> then
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I push "play" no audio is heard. Then I close, reopen,
>> and
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> things
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a while.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have made some tweaks to the configuration with some
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> success.
>> > >>>>>>>>>> The
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> errors
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are happening less and less, but they still pop up.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anybody?
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jimmy
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>I recall a similar irony, if that's the right word, during the Danish
cartoon flap: Muslim fanatics using violence to protest the implication
that Islam is a violent religion. Is it possible they didn't realize they
were proving the validity of the cartoons? Hard to believe.
Unfortunately, Osama bin Laden and others have much of the Muslim world
convinced that the US is engaged in a war on Islam. Even more
unfortunately, I think for some this actually is an unspoken motive in our
"war on terror."
To paraphrase John Lennon: imagine . . . no religion.
Sigh,
Sarah
"Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote in message
news:C131DB49.356D%dterry@keyofd.net...
>I don't want to start another religious or political thread - I just found
> this ironic, at best:
>
> The Pope is under fire from the Islamic community because he quoted a
> Byzantine emperor's ancient writings in a talk rejecting religious
> motivation for violence. The emperor, in obscure writings hundreds of
> year
> old, characterized the teachings of Muhammad (Islam's founder) as "evil
> and
> inhuman" because if it's command to "spread by the sword the faith". The
> Pope made no such characterization - just quoted the old guy, and it isn't
> even clear if he quoted any of the "offensive" text.
>
> As a protest, two Catholic, two Anglican, and one Greek church in the West
> Bank were attacked by Palestinians using guns, firebombs and lighter
> fluid -
> charring the churches and riddling them with bullet holes.
>
> Umm...reality check: 2+2=4. The Earth still circles the Sun. And
> doesn't
> reacting with violence just prove the Emperor's assessment, and then some?
> Yet the press and the Islamic world seem to have missed the irony of this
> response, or at least are reluctant to admit it.
>
> The Pope's comment is getting more press than the fact that violence was
> actually perpetrated when the churches were torched. To note, this was a
> response, not a crime.
>
> Why are we
|
|
|
|
| Re: Terrorist plot foiled...Christians has Lost focus [message #71213 is a reply to message #71211] |
Mon, 14 August 2006 14:04 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
rted. :)
S
"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:450c9fbe$1@linux...
> Seems to me that it's time to bring back King Arthur.....
> --
> Martin Harrington
> www.lendanear-sound.com
>
> "Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote in message
> news:C131DB49.356D%dterry@keyofd.net...
>>I don't want to start another religious or political thread - I just found
>> this ironic, at best:
>>
>> The Pope is under fire from the Islamic community because he quoted a
>> Byzantine emperor's ancient writings in a talk rejecting religious
>> motivation for violence. The emperor, in obscure writings hundreds of
>> year
>> old, characterized the teachings of Muhammad (Islam's founder) as "evil
>> and
>> inhuman" because if it's command to "spread by the sword the faith". The
>> Pope made no such characterization - just quoted the old guy, and it
>> isn't
>> even clear if he quoted any of the "offensive" text.
>>
>> As a protest, two Catholic, two Anglican, and one Greek church in the
>> West
>> Bank were attacked by Palestinians using guns, firebombs and lighter
>> fluid -
>> charring the churches and riddling them with bullet holes.
>>
>> Umm...reality check: 2+2=4. The Earth still circles the Sun. And
>> doesn't
>> reacting with violence just prove the Emperor's assessment, and then
>> some?
>> Yet the press and the Islamic world seem to have missed the irony of this
>> response, or at least are reluctant to admit it.
>>
>> The Pope's comment is getting more press than the fact that violence was
>> actually perpetrated when the churches were torched. To note, this was a
>> response, not a crime.
>>
>> Why are we (the world culture) so quick to defend Islam and work so hard
>> to
>> avoid offending Muslims, regardless of the cost - even if it means
>> rewriting
>> the definitions of peace and violence? Just something to think about....
>>
>> Ignorance isn't bliss, it's the last step one takes before falling off of
>> a
>> cliff.
>>
>> Back to music...
>> Dedric
>>
>
>......wait!!!....it's Clinton's fault!!!........no!!!.......it's Eisenhower's
fault!!!!!!.......hell, maybe it's Muhammad's fault!!!......not, it's Jesus'
fault!!!!.....
"justcron" <parisnews@hydrorecords.com> wrote in message
news:450c9a65@linux...
> Agreed to both.
>
> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
> news:450c8c11@linux...
> > It's Bush's fault.
> >
> > "Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote in message
> > news:C131DB49.356D%dterry@keyofd.net...
> >> I don't want to start another religious or political thread - I just
> >> found
> >> this ironic, at best:
> >>
> >> The Pope is under fire from the Islamic community because he quoted a
> >> Byzantine emperor's ancient writings in a talk rejecting religious
> >> motivation for violence. The emperor, in obscure writings hundreds of
> > year
> >> old, characterized the teachings of Muhammad (Islam's founder) as "evil
> > and
> >> inhuman" because if it's command to "spread by the sword the faith".
The
> >> Pope made no such characterization - just quoted the old guy, and it
> >> isn't
> >> even clear if he quoted any of the "offensive" text.
> >>
> >> As a protest, two Catholic, two Anglican, and one Greek church in the
> >> West
> >> Bank were attacked by Palestinians using guns, firebombs and lighter
> > fluid -
> >> charring the churches and riddling them with bullet holes.
> >>
> >> Umm...reality check: 2+2=4. The Earth still circles the Sun. And
> > doesn't
> >> reacting with violence just prove the Emperor's assessment, and then
> >> some?
> >> Yet the press and the Islamic world seem to have missed the irony of
this
> >> response, or at least are reluctant to admit it.
> >>
> >> The Pope's comment is getting more press than the fact that violence
was
> >> actually perpetrated when the churches were torched. To note, this was
a
> >> response, not a crime.
> >>
> >> Why are we (the world culture) so quick to defend Islam and work so
hard
> > to
> >> avoid offending Muslims, regardless of the cost - even if it means
> > rewriting
> >> the definitions of peace and violence? Just something to think
about....
> >>
> >> Ignorance isn't bliss, it's the last step one takes before falling off
of
> > a
> >> cliff.
> >>
> >> Back to music...
> >> Dedric
> >>
> >
> >
>
>"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>To paraphrase John Lennon: imagine . . . no religion.
Imagine there's no hippies... It's easy if you try...
Sorry, couldn't resist.
DCApparently it's an abomination to Islam to discuss whether or not Mohammed
said anything other than what a few *chosen* mullas decide is OK. I still
find it disturbingly amazing that those on the left in this country are so
friggin blind that they don't see what is in store for them if they win the
ideological struggle that is going on in this country and in doing so,
further empower the very anthisesis of everything they believe in.
Take a good look at what is happening. It is not Bush's fault. It started
long before Bush took office. It is the natural progression of the radical
Islamic agenda to use *any* excuse to jump up and down like a bunch of
automations, shoot guns in the air and burn things whil'st blithering a
bunch of racist, hate driven nonsense.
Coming soon to a *Sudetenland* near you.
"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote in message news:450ca327@linux...
> I recall a similar irony, if that's the right word, during the Danish
> cartoon flap: Muslim fanatics using violence to protest the implication
> that Islam is a violent religion. Is it possible they didn't realize they
> were proving the validity of the cartoons? Hard to believe.
>
> Unfortunately, Osama bin Laden and others have much of the Muslim world
> convinced that the US is engaged in a war on Islam. Even more
> unfortunately, I think for some this actually is an unspoken motive in our
> "war on terror."
>
> To paraphrase John Lennon: imagine . . . no religion.
>
> Sigh,
>
> Sarah
>
>
> "Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote in message
> news:C131DB49.356D%dterry@keyofd.net...
> >I don't want to start another religious or political thread - I just
found
> > this ironic, at best:
> >
> > The Pope is under fire from the Islamic community because he quoted a
> > Byzantine emperor's ancient writings in a talk rejecting religious
> > motivation for violence. The emperor, in obscure writings hundreds of
> > year
> > old, characterized the teachings of Muhammad (Islam's founder) as "evil
> > and
> > inhuman" because if it's command to "spread by the sword the faith".
The
> > Pope made no such characterization - just quoted the old guy, and it
isn't
> > even clear if he quoted any of the "offensive" text.
> >
> > As a protest, two Catholic, two Anglican, and one Greek church in the
West
> > Bank were attacked by Palestinians using guns, firebombs and lighter
> > fluid -
> > charring the churches and riddling them with bullet holes.
> >
> > Umm...reality check: 2+2=4. The Earth still circles the Sun. And
> > doesn't
> > reacting with violence just prove the Emperor's assessment, and then
some?
> > Yet the press and the Islamic world seem to have missed the irony of
this
> > response, or at least are reluctant to admit it.
> >
> > The Pope's comment is getting more press than the fact that violence was
> > actually perpetrated when the churches were torched. To note, this was
a
> > response, not a crime.
> >
> > Why are we (the world culture) so quick to defend Islam and work so hard
> > to
> > avoid offending Muslims, regardless of the cost - even if it means
> > rewriting
> > the definitions of peace and violence? Just something to think
about....
> >
> > Ignorance isn't bliss, it's the last step one takes before falling off
of
> > a
> > cliff.
> >
> > Back to music...
> > Dedric
> >
>
>I just got a pair of these. I like them a lot.
http://www.shure.com/ProAudio/Products/WiredMicrophones/us_p ro_KSM137-SL_content
DCDoes the US have anyone that really excels in diplomacy? Henry Kissinger
always seemed to be amazing to me and I'm wondering who now days does effective
diplomacy.
Do you believe that countries like Iran, Syria and North Korea are beyond
diplomacy? I always look for diplomatic solutions but I think the US government
has totally stopped any real diplomacy. Yes, No ? Didn't we wait a good
week for Israel to blow up Pakestan last month until we Condi wandered over
to the UN and said "hey, you think it's time to reduce the kill rate to show
we care?".
JohnDo you believe that countries like Iran, Syria and North Korea are beyond
> diplomacy?
North Korea?......why not ask the Clintons? Iran?........no problem......all
we have to do is abandon Israel and convert to Islam.
Syria????........I'd rather try to herd cats.
"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:450cb4fb$1@linux...
>
&
|
|
|
|
| Re: Terrorist plot foiled...Christians has Lost focus [message #71217 is a reply to message #71213] |
Mon, 14 August 2006 14:44 |
DC
Messages: 722
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
do you really
think it fair to discredit both his clearly stated motive and
the reasoning behind it in favor of anti-christian paranoia?
Lincoln lived during the 2nd awakening and often used "good vs.
evil" as a part of his reasoning as well. Would you be
frightened of him as well?
Can only atheists be president?
Where is the specific evidence for the motivations you assign
to Bush?
Can you not call the jihadis "evil"?
>Can anyone imagine a worse direction for the world to be headed?
Oh hell yeah Gene, can't you?
http://www.breitbart.com/news/na/cp_w091615A.xml.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnew s.html?in_article_id=405238&in_page_id=1811&ico=Home page&icl=TabModule&icc=NEWS&ct=5
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/763199.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,1-3-2360093-3, 00.html
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks
And all you can do is hate Bush for being Christian...
What is your plan to protect us?
DCWhy was Kissinger successful? He had an agenda.....get us out of VietNam.
Everyone agreed on this agenda....even the Russiand and therefore they were
willing to go the "detente" route. North Vietnam couldn't really pay them
for the billions they were expending to prop up that regime. As far as we
were concerned, there was never any real desire to stay there once Kissinger
took center stage. Cronkite declared victory for the Viet Cong at the end of
Tet (December 1968) and everyone went along with this so Kissinger had to
figure out how to go about getting out and getting our prisoners out.
As far as China goes, it was in China's interest to open up relations with
the west because their economy was tanking and they were scared as hell of
the Soviets.
These were the times we were extremely active in supporting Latin American
dictatorships and he was accused of being complicit in war crimes by a few
leftist journalists like Christopher Hitchens.
The thing is that international politics isn't pretty. Kissinger may have
gotten the Nobel Peace prize, but it was more the time in history than the
person, IMO. I mean, Arafat and Annan have gotten the Nobel Peach prize
which shows how bogus it really is these days.
Trying to be the passive good guy and pleasing the world gets us the
disastrous results of the Carter and Clinton administrations. Just a little
correct intelligence at the right time and we'd likely not be in such a mess
today. Too bad Clinton screwed the pooch on that one. When Kissinger was
Secretary of State, we had an intelligence service that could be depended
on. You can't conduct diplomacy without having a few hole cards.
DJ
"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:450cbe96$1@linux...
>
> Ok, so diplomacy isn't working. But WHO are the diplomats and do they
have
> any skill like Kissinger?
>
> John
>
> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
> >Do you believe that countries like Iran, Syria and North Korea are beyond
> >> diplomacy?
> >
> >North Korea?......why not ask the Clintons? Iran?........no
problem......all
> >we have to do is abandon Israel and convert to Islam.
> >Syria????........I'd rather try to herd cats.
> >
> >
> >"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:450cb4fb$1@linux...
> >>
> >> Does the US have anyone that really excels in diplomacy? Henry
Kissinger
> >> always seemed to be amazing to me and I'm wondering who now days does
> >effective
> >> diplomacy.
> >>
> >> Do you believe that countries like Iran, Syria and North Korea are
beyond
> >> diplomacy? I always look for diplomatic solutions but I think the US
> >government
> >> has totally stopped any real diplomacy. Yes, No ? Didn't we wait a
> good
> >> week for Israel to blow up Pakestan last month until we Condi wandered
> >over
> >> to the UN and said "hey, you think it's time to reduce the kill rate to
> >show
> >> we care?".
> >>
> >> John
> >
> >
>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>"gene Lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote:
>
>>the president has had an even scarier motivation.
>>
>>Religion.
>
>
>Gene, that's absurd. You just passed the 5-year anniversary
>of the worst attack on americans in history, and you can't even
>grant the president the motive of protecting the rest of us?
>
>
I’m not going to argue this with you. You still have a right to your opinion,
as do I (at least for the moment). This is not just about religious fervor,
I honestly think the Pres is not 100% with it. I don’t think he has all his
oars In the water. If I am right, this is the most dangerous period in our
history.
But to my point, this is also from the Washington Post:
Another Rapture writer says he advises White House
by Dan Froomkin, Washington Post
Aug. 4, 2006
Joel C. Rosenberg, who writes Christian apocalyptic fiction, told me in an
interview this week that he was invited to a White House Bible study group
last year to talk about current events and biblical prophecy.
Rosenberg said that on February 10, 2005, he came to speak to a "couple dozen"
White House aides in the Old Executive Office Building — and has stayed in
touch with several of them since.
Rosenberg wouldn't say exactly what was discussed. "The meeting itself was
off the record, as you could imagine," he said. He declined to name the staffer
he said invited him or describe the attendees in any way other than to say
that the president was not among them. "I can't imagine they'd want to talk
about it," he said.
"I can't tell you that the people that I spoke with agree with me, or believe
t
|
|
|
|
| Re: Terrorist plot foiled...Christians has Lost focus [message #71219 is a reply to message #71207] |
Mon, 14 August 2006 14:53 |
Deej [1]
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
gued that these things keep on happening ... . Your novels keep foreshadowing
actual coming events. ... And so we're curious, how are you doing it? What's
the secret? Why don't you come over and walk us through the story behind
these novels?' So I did."
Rosenberg — like Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins, the authors of the phenomenally
popular Left Behind series — writes fiction inspired by biblical prophecy
about the apocalypse. The consistent theme is that certain current events
presage the end times, the Rapture, and the return of Jesus Christ. Rosenberg's
particular pitch to journalists is that his books come true.
Here he is in a recent interview with Christian talk-show host Pat Robertson
, talking about what he thinks is going to happen next: "Now I have to say,
Pat, I believe that Ezekiel 38 and 39 — the prophecies that we're talking
about — I think this is about the end of radical Islam as we know it. God
says He's going to supernaturally judge Iran, Sudan, Lebanon, Syria, these
other countries. We're talking about fire from heaven, a massive earthquake.
It's going to be devastating and tragic. But I believe that afterwards there's
going to be a great spiritual awakening. We're seeing more Muslims coming
to Christ right now than at any other time in history. But I think that's
just the beginning. We've got dark days ahead of us. But I believe there's
a light at the end of that tunnel."
Rosenberg says he got a call last year from a White House staffer. "He said
'A lot of people over here are reading your novels, and they're intrigued
that these things keep on happening ... . Your novels keep foreshadowing
actual coming events. ... And so we're curious, how are you doing it? What's
the secret? Why don't you come over and walk us through the story behind
these novels?' So I did."
Judy Keen first wrote back in October 2002, in USA Today, that "some White
House staffers have been meeting weekly at hour-long prayer and Bible study
sessions."Gene,
If I actually believed this, I might agree with you. We've certainly
disagreed on a number of issues like this but I respect your opinion. I'm
sincerely interested to know if this is for real. I've got no problem with
people practicing their faith but I do believe that faith in something (like
armageddon) can definitely bring it about. I've read a number of articles
discussing thes things you bring up here, but the sources were easily as
fanatical as they purported Bush to be.
I agree that we may be living in the most dangerous time in the history of
the human race, but I don't see the same villian that you do.
Deej
"gene Lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:450cdc49$1@linux...
>
> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
> >
> >"gene Lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote:
> >
> >>the president has had an even scarier motivation.
> >>
> >>Religion.
> >
> >
> >Gene, that's absurd. You just passed the 5-year anniversary
> >of the worst attack on americans in history, and you can't even
> >grant the president the motive of protecting the rest of us?
> >
> >
>
> I'm not going to argue this with you. You still have a right to your
opinion,
> as do I (at least for the moment). This is not just about religious
fervor,
> I honestly think the Pres is not 100% with it. I don't think he has all
his
> oars In the water. If I am right, this is the most dangerous period in our
> history.
>
>
> But to my point, this is also from the Washington Post:
>
> Another Rapture writer says he advises White House
>
> by Dan Froomkin, Washington Post
>
> Aug. 4, 2006
>
> Joel C. Rosenberg, who writes Christian apocalyptic fiction, told me in an
> interview this week that he was invited to a White House Bible study group
> last year to talk about current events and biblical prophecy.
>
> Rosenberg said that on February 10, 2005, he came to speak to a "couple
dozen"
> White House aides in the Old Executive Office Building - and has stayed in
> touch with several of them since.
>
> Rosenberg wouldn't say exactly what was discussed. "The meeting itself was
> off the record, as you could imagine," he said. He declined to name the
staffer
> he said invited him or describe the attendees in any way other than to say
> that the president was not among them. "I can't imagine they'd want to
talk
> about it," he said.
>
> "I can't tell you that the people that I spoke with agree with me, or
believe
> that prophecy can really help you understand what will happen next in the
> Middle East, but I'm not surprised that they're intrigued."
>
> The White House press office wasn't able to confirm the visit for me, but
> there have been previous reports about White House Bible study groups
inviting
> Christian authors to come speak.
>
>
> Apocalyptic advice:
> Aug. 12, 2003:
> Apocalypse preacher says Bush administration solicits his advice
>
> Aug. 17, 2003:
> Rice briefs 'Christian Zionists'
> on Mideast peace plan
>
> May 18, 2004:
> White House checked with rapture Christians before latest Israel move
>
> Aug. 8, 2006:
> Cheering for apocalypse, evangelical lunatics counsel Bush White House
>
> Rapture radicals
> Bush and the fundamentalists
> Rosenberg says he got a call last year from a White House staffer.
>
> "He said 'A lot of people over here are reading your novels, and they're
> intrigued that these things keep on happening ... . Your novels keep
foreshadowing
> actual coming events. ... And so we're curious, how are you doing it?
What's
> the secret? Why don't you come over and walk us through the story behind
> these novels?' So I did."
> Rosenberg - like Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins, the authors of the
phenomenally
> popular Left Behind series - writes fiction inspired by biblical prophecy
> about the apocalypse. The consistent theme is that certain current events
> presage the end times, the Rapture, and the return of Jesus Christ.
Rosenberg's
> particular pitch to journalists is that his books come true.
>
> Here he is in a recent interview with Christian talk-show host Pat
Robertson
> , talking about what he thinks is going to happen next: "Now I have to
say,
> Pat, I believe that Ezekiel 38 and 39 - the prophecies that we're talking
> about - I think this is about the end of radical Islam as we know it. God
> says He's going to supernaturally judge Iran, Sudan, Lebanon, Syria, these
> other countries. We're talking about fire from heaven, a massive
earthquake.
> It's going to be devastating and tragic. But I believe that afterwards
there's
> going to be a great spiritual awakening. We're seeing more Muslims coming
> to Christ right now than at any other time in history. But I think that's
> just the beginning. We've got dark days ahead of us. But I believe there's
> a light at the end of that tunnel."
>
> Rosenberg says he got a call last year from a White House staffer. "He
said
> 'A lot of people over here are reading your novels, and they're intrigued
> that these things keep on happening ... . Your novels keep foreshadowing
> actual coming events. ... And so we're curious, how are you doing it?
What's
> the secret? Why don't you come over and walk us through the story behind
> these novels?' So I did."
>
> Judy Keen first wrote back in October 2002, in USA Today, that "some White
> House staffers have been meeting weekly at hour-long prayer and Bible
study
> sessions."
>"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>Gene,
>
>If I actually believed this, I might agree with you. We've certainly
>disagreed on a number of issues like this but I respect your opinion. I'm
>sincerely interested to know if this is for real. I've got no problem with
>people practicing th
|
|
|
|
| Re: Terrorist plot foiled...Christians has Lost focus [message #71220 is a reply to message #71217] |
Mon, 14 August 2006 14:55 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
eir faith but I do believe that faith in something (like
>armageddon) can definitely bring it about. I've read a number of articles
>discussing thes things you bring up here, but the sources were easily as
>fanatical as they purported Bush to be.
>
>I agree that we may be living in the most dangerous time in the history
of
>the human race, but I don't see the same villian that you do.
>
>Deej
>
There is not just one villain, there are plenty of villains. Saddam Hussein,
sure, Kim Il-sung, absolutely. The Janjaweed – yep, Taliban, OK.
I don’t want to be on this list!
As a US citizen, I feel like I have been put on the list by the unconscionable
actions of our government.
Torture, sure…start wars without cause, OK, cause the deaths of tens of thousands
if not hundreds of thousands of innocent people in the name of bringing them
freedom, no problem. Open everyone’s mail, have trials and find people guilty
and put them to death without ever showing any evidence, why not.
Well I do have a problem. It is NOT OK.
I want my country back.
It was never perfect. No country ever was, but we stood for something great,
even if we sometimes had less than stellar moments. I know in my heart that
if the Founding Fathers of the United States were alive today they would
be calling for impeachment or revolution.
I don’t care if the President prays. We have had many excellent and effective
presidents that were deeply religions, but if he thinks that all the wars
and problems we are having in the world are actually a good thing because
they have ignited a resurgence in Christian Values, we are in deep shit.
GeneGene -
You probably didn't realize it (so no offense), but your response pretty
much confirms my assertion that the tendency of our country and even the
world society, is to place blame for religious conflict, violence and
religiously motivated terrorism anywhere but with the single largest
growing, and currently most violent religion in the world. We ignore car
bombings, suicide bombers, torched churches, thousands of tortured and
murdered, exiled and ostracized people in favor of blaming the
administration for anything and everything, as if Bush made the Pope quote a
Byzantine emperor by going to war in Iraq.
Islam isn't the passive, peaceful, non-threatening, all-accepting religion
our country seems to blindly want to believe. Some western Muslims might
be, but just ask anyone who tried to believe in anything else in many of the
conservative Islamic countries of the world. I know, have talked to, and
have heard missionaries to these countries speak - it's a different world
from the free discussions and widely varying opinions we have here. People
die for converting to anything else, or their families do. At best, their
families disown them and they sneak out of the country under threat of
death. In fact it's the exact opposite of the "freedom" our country
continually pushes the limits of. Odd that we would turn on our own country
in favor of supporting, or at least turning a blind eye to this kind of
ideology, somehow believing that is the more politically correct thing to
do.
The problem I see isn't religion, but a lack of faith in God, and hence any
sense of direction and moral guidance. God gives us the choice to believe
or not. Based on documents of their activities - in the name of Allah the
9/11 terrorists pretty much broke every one of the 10 commandments in 24
hours. That may seem a trivial or even silly fact, but there is a sad, and
frightening irony there. Faith in God isn't what one should fear - it's
believing in anything that conveniently appeases one's personal whims that
is the true danger.... the terrorists proved that in one day. That also
includes believing in nothing.
As Blaise Pascal once said (paraphrased): if one believes in God and is
wrong, at worst one has lived a good live and had some false hope as a sense
of comfort along the way; if one doesn't believe and is wrong, then at
best, all is lost for eternity. This is the paradox that we should be
considering, and yet the most fear-inducing thought is that the President
might believe in something other than nothing. Is no belief really better
than belief? What reference point for right and wrong accompanies disbelief
in anything higher than one's own decisions? What reference point for
respect for other people's beliefs accompanies a lack of belief in any
guideline for living life and having respect and compassion for others?
It isn't the administration's fault that the Pope quoted a guy Islam doesn't
like just because he called like he saw it - something we do on this forum
every single day, ironically. It also isn't Christianity's intent to take
over the world, or the government. Far from it. The only goal is to give
people a chance to decide. Yet, those that want to decide to not believe
would rather take that right away and remove Christianity from public view.
The only way to force someone to remove their belief from public in a
country that promotes the freedom to believe as one wishes, is to outlaw it.
Yet another paradox.
Through our short sighted political glasses we want to see the world as a
black and white, free-will, partisan vote where one's party always wins and
the decisions are always in our favor, but fail to see any validity in
believing a God that gave us the very moral compass to maintain the balance
that kind of choice affords us. In essence we put our trust in the very
thing we prove day in and day out to be one of the most fallible
characteristics of humanity - political and relativistic ideology.
I guess I ignored my own first comment....sorry about that.
I should get back to mourning NI Battery 2's destruction of 10 hours of work
:-((....
Regards,
Dedric
On 9/16/06 9:09 PM, in article 450cbc70$1@linux, "gene Lennon"
<glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote:
>
> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>> I don't want to start another religious or political thread -...
>
>
> These are frightening times. While the true neocons in the current
> administration
> have had a variety of political, financial and power-based reasons for
> perusing
> the war against Iraq, the president has had an even scarier motivation.
>
> Religion.
>
> If you missed it, this week Bush has announced the "Third Great Awakening"
> of the international religious struggle. This is a good thing as he sees
> it and it has been partially brought on by the new fight against terrorists
> (Translation - Due to his good work in GodÂ’s name). A war that he depicts
> as "a confrontation between good and evil."
> In 2001 he used the word "crusade" and got into quite a bit of trouble (as
> has the Pope), but he seems to have the gloves off now.
>
> Can anyone imagine a worse direction for the world to be headed?
>
> Of course he also believes in the Rapture, so things could easily go down
> hill from here.
>
> More on the "Third Awakening":
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09 /12/AR200609120159
> 4_pf.html
>
> Gene
>"gene Lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote:
>
>Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>I don't want to start another religious or political thread -...
>
>
>These are frightening times. While the true neocons in the current administration
>have had a variety of political, financial and power-based reasons for perusing
>the war against Iraq, the president has had an even scarier motivation.
>
>Religion.
I think Bush believes in religious freedom, I don't think the jehadist feel
the same way.
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Terrorist plot foiled [message #71221 is a reply to message #71205] |
Mon, 14 August 2006 15:08 |
Sarah
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
/>
>If you missed it, this week Bush has announced the "Third Great Awakening"
>of the international religious struggle. This is a good thing as he sees
>it and it has been partially brought on by the new fight against terrorists
>(Translation - Due to his good work in God’s name). A war that he depicts
>as "a confrontation between good and evil."
>In 2001 he used the word "crusade" and got into quite a bit of trouble (as
>has the Pope), but he seems to have the gloves off now.
>
>Can anyone imagine a worse direction for the world to be headed?
I don't think we are being give a choice, or did you forget 9/11?
>
>Of course he also believes in the Rapture, so things could easily go down
>hill from here.
>
Things will go down hill if we do take care of these problems.
>More on the "Third Awakening":
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09 /12/AR2006091201594_pf.html
>
>Gene
>
Gene, maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying, but it sounds like
you are saying that Bush is starting and wants a religious war. I think
you may be confused. Other people have already started the religious war.
Look in to the sixth and seventh pillar of Islam, some where in there it
speaks of living by the sword. In other words, if you don't convert, you
are to die. I for one do not believe they are civil or peaceful people.
There has not been peace among those people for thousands of years, and
now THEY have sucked us in.
They would be nothing in the middle east, but the Communists, Russia and
China, supplied all these third world countries with tons of weapons! Now
they can make bombs and wage war. Now they know how to make nuclear bombs
that can take out US cities. Look at the middle east, south America, North
Korea and the mess all across the continent of Africa. Evil people gave
more evil people weapons to fight wars with. This has created a world problem,
and the Communist want to keep supplying them with weapons and technology.
I know, here comes the liberals with, we gave them weapons too. Think about
it, where did this start?
I'm no fan of Bush, but it's just too easy, and unfair to say it's all Bush's
fault.
I will say however, the War in Iraq was completely mishandled. Just do
the math, one hundred and fifty thousand troops to take care of thirty five
million people plus, and thousands of miles of open boarder, in a place
the size of California. With five million troops, maybe??? I believe Bush
and his friends wanted to be there for years and make all kinds of money
on this war. He has created a bigger problem by not taking care of Iraq
quickly. There is a lot of blame to go around in our federal government,
it's not just one man.
As far as the war on terror, people should be honest with themselves. you
can't negotiate a war. there is no diplomatic solution to a war. If you
stop to talk, they reinforce, rebuild, and reorganize for more war. Or did
we forget the lessons of the past.
In the end, bombs can never stop idealism. The problem is the people that
want Jehad will not stop. Peace will never be lasting with these people,
it's in their nature to be waring. They think they will be rewarded if they
kill and die in the name of Islam. So how do you fix it?
We are more concerned with terrorist rights than doing the job we need to
do. When they hit us, we'll have to take them out, make no mistake, it's
going to get serious. When they kill millions of americans, blame the spineless
politicians that wanted to talk things out and find political solutions instead
of facing the hard truth, we are at WAR. We should take care of the problems
now, but we are just too weak as a nation. Really think about why we are
weak as a nation, and where the blame should go.
JamesGene, I too respect your opinion.
I do ask you to look at another viewpoint.
I do consider yours, despite disagreeing with it often.
>As a US citizen, I feel like I have been put on the list by the unconscionable
>actions of our government.
>
>Torture, sure…
There is no torture, not by any sane definition of the word.
Human Rights Watch recently defined putting an terrorist in a
cold room, and blasting them with Red Hot Chili Peppers as
torture. Hilarious. Abu Ghraib? Hazing rituals compared to
Saddam, and the perps went to jail!
>Start wars without cause,
Now you know a case can be made for that war, don't you? Don't
agree? Fine, but don't assume it does not exist.
>OK, cause the deaths of tens of thousands
>if not hundreds of thousands of innocent people in the name of bringing
them
>freedom, no problem.
We spend millions of dollars on accurate weapons so we can kill
the fewest innocents of any war in history,to liberate 25 million
people, and this is how you charact
|
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| Re: Terrorist plot foiled...Christians has Lost focus [message #71222 is a reply to message #71217] |
Mon, 14 August 2006 15:06 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
erize it? Again this just
isn't a fair representation.
>Open everyone’s mail,
Never happened. In fact, the eavesdropping of international
calls, made by likely terrorists,which was completely legal to
do, and provided valuable information, was revealed by the
NY Times, in an act of treason (to many of us). No one is
opening your mail.
>have trials and find people guilty
>and put them to death without ever showing any evidence, why not.
Where did this happen? First, the Geneva Conventions
*explicitly* exclude spies and saboteurs from protection, and
governments regularly have executed them without being charged
under the GC's, so how do you figure that jihadi are covered?
Do you think you and your loved ones are at risk from these
people? If you don't, why not?
>Well I do have a problem. It is NOT OK.
>
>I want my country back.
Yeah, and I want to go see Bird and Diz on 52nd st. and meet
a hot dame there.
Your country is a pre-9/11 one and I do not argue with you
because I like arguing, nor do I wish to offend you, since
I actually quite like you. But I am convinced that your views
would result in my family being put in terrible danger. I
cannot remain silent.
We will face jihadis, and we would if Ghandi himself were
president. They have revealed themselves to us, for the past
30 years, to be the scum they are. To believe that they can
be negotiated with, has to be beyond the pale today.
I wish it were otherwise.
>It was never perfect. No country ever was, but we stood for something great,
>even if we sometimes had less than stellar moments. I know in my heart that
>if the Founding Fathers of the United States were alive today they would
>be calling for impeachment or revolution.
This is an interesting point. They were very wary of "foreign
entanglements" but they also went to North Africa and fought the
Barbary Pirates so that the seas would be safe, so I am not sure
you are right on this.
They would certainly barely recognize our country though.
Liberal, big-govt. would have horrified them for certain; surely
you realize this?
> I don’t care if the President prays. We have had many excellent and effective
>presidents that were deeply religions, but if he thinks that all the wars
>and problems we are having in the world are actually a good thing because
>they have ignited a resurgence in Christian Values, we are in deep shit.
I agree, but where is the *evidence* that he makes his decisions
based upon those things? He's such a cautious man in so many
ways. Don't believe me? Remember the "moral equivilence"
argument that idiots like Ward Churchill make? That we are all
"little eichmanns" participating in this great evil?
OK, so assume for a moment that we are morally equivalent to
Al Queda. Now, what would we have done the morning of 9/12/01?
Think about it! All those subs, all those missiles, all those
nukes.
Green glass in Kabul, green glass in Baghdad, same in Tehran,
same in Damascus. Then Bush gets on TV and says: "who's next"?
That's moral equivalence my friend, and frankly it's what those
bastards would do to us if they could.
Instead, Bush tries to foment democracy, and he believes in it
so much that he pays to do it the slow and painful way when he
could have punched the big red button, and converted the
survivors at gunpoint.
As a Christian, I can tell you that the Bible *at no point* says
that we are to start wars and kill people to bring about
armageddon. There are idiots who believe such things, but
those named in the article you quoted are not among them, and
those beliefs are not widely held among us. Believing it to be
soon, is very different from trying to make it happen.
DCDedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>People
>die for converting to anything else, or their families do.
There's a pretty well-known engineer out here in LA whose
ex-muslim wife must forever watch her back because she is under
the threat of "honor killing" (how's that for Orwellian double-
speak?) for marrying a non-muslim and leaving the faith.
DC"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Gene, maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying, but it sounds like
>you are saying that Bush is starting and wants a religious war. I think
>you may be confused. Other people have already started the religious
war.
> Look in to the sixth and seventh pillar of Islam, some where in there it
>speaks of living by the sword. In other words, if you don't convert, you
>are to die. I for one do not believe they are civil or peaceful people.
> There has not been peace among those people for thousands of years, and
>now THEY have sucked us in.
>
>They would be nothing in the middle east, but the Communists, Russia and
>China, supplied all these third world countries with tons of weapons! Now
>they can make bombs and wage war. Now they know how to make nuclear bombs
>that can take out US cities. Look at the middle east, south America, North
>Korea and the mess all across the continent of Africa. Evil people gave
>more evil people weapons to fight wars with. This has created a world problem,
>and the Communist want to keep supplying them with weapons and technology.
> I know, here comes the liberals with, we gave them weapons too. Think
about
>it, where did this start?
>
>I'm no fan of Bush, but it's just too easy, and unfair to say it's all Bush's
>fault.
>
> I will say however, the War in Iraq was completely mishandled. Just do
>the math, one hundred and fifty thousand troops to take care of thirty five
>million people plus, and thousands of miles of open boarder, in a place
>the size of California. With five million troops, maybe??? I believe Bush
>and his friends wanted to be there for years and make all kinds of money
>on this war. He has created a bigger problem by not taking care of Iraq
>quickly. There is a lot of blame to go around in our federal government,
>it's not just one man.
>
>As far as the war on terror, people should be honest with themselves. you
>can't negotiate a war. there is no diplomatic solution to a war. If you
>stop to talk, they reinforce, rebuild, and reorganize for more war. Or
did
>we forget the lessons of the past.
>
>In the end, bombs can never stop idealism. The problem is the people that
>want Jehad will not stop. Peace will never be lasting with these people,
>it's in their nature to be waring. They think they will be rewarded if
they
>kill and die in the name of Islam. So how do you fix it?
>
> We are more concerned with terrorist rights than doing the job we need
to
>do. When they hit us, we'll have to take them out, make no mistake, it's
>going to get serious. When they kill millions of americans, blame the spineless
>politicians that wanted to talk things out and find political solutions
instead
>of facing the hard truth, we are at WAR. We should take care of the problems
>now, but we are just too weak as a nation. Really think about why we are
>weak as a nation, and where the blame should go.
>
>James
>
James,
You have just as much right to your opinion as I do and I know we won’t change
each other’s minds one iota, but I still have to question you about this
statement:
“We should take care of the problems now, but we are just too weak as a nation.”
Please help me define what the problem is. Is it Muslims? Just some Muslims?
Which ones?
What about North Korea? They are not Muslims, but they are first (or perhaps
second) on the list of “most likely to do bad things” to us - Big bad bomb
things. Pakistan is Muslim and they have several bombs. They have just signed
a treaty with the Taliban, and they are hiding the real person that caused
9/11, where is the outrage against Osama bin Laden and the people protecting
him?
How about the Non-Aligned Movement. Over 100 countries banding together
against US policies and interests? – Should we get them all? Should we start
with Cuba or Venezuela?
Now that we have succeeded in alienating ourselves from the majority of the
world, should we see them all as threats? Almost all of our allies are abandoning
us, or at the least distancing themselves from us. The only real leader left
is on our side
|
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|
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| Re: Terrorist plot foiled [message #71224 is a reply to message #71221] |
Mon, 14 August 2006 16:59 |
DC
Messages: 722
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
nt writings in a talk rejecting religious
>>> motivation for violence. The emperor, in obscure writings hundreds of
>>> year
>>> old, characterized the teachings of Muhammad (Islam's founder) as "evil
>>> and
>>> inhuman" because if it's command to "spread by the sword the faith".
>>> The
>>> Pope made no such characterization - just quoted the old guy, and it
>>> isn't
>>> even clear if he quoted any of the "offensive" text.
>>>
>>> As a protest, two Catholic, two Anglican, and one Greek church in the
>>> West
>>> Bank were attacked by Palestinians using guns, firebombs and lighter
>>> fluid -
>>> charring the churches and riddling them with bullet holes.
>>>
>>> Umm...reality check: 2+2=4. The Earth still circles the Sun. And
>>> doesn't
>>> reacting with violence just prove the Emperor's assessment, and then
>>> some?
>>> Yet the press and the Islamic world seem to have missed the irony of
>>> this
>>> response, or at least are reluctant to admit it.
>>>
>>> The Pope's comment is getting more press than the fact that violence was
>>> actually perpetrated when the churches were torched. To note, this was
>>> a
>>> response, not a crime.
>>>
>>> Why are we (the world culture) so quick to defend Islam and work so hard
>>> to
>>> avoid offending Muslims, regardless of the cost - even if it means
>>> rewriting
>>> the definitions of peace and violence? Just something to think
>>> about....
>>>
>>> Ignorance isn't bliss, it's the last step one takes before falling off
>>> of a
>>> cliff.
>>>
>>> Back to music...
>>> Dedric
>>>
>>
>>
>
>I don't know if I'm a "leftie" (or a hippie for that matter), but I do know
I'm definitely not blind. And here's another thing I'm not -- I'm not an
idiot.
Not being an idiot enables me to reason beyond simplistic black-or-white
logic. In doing so, what I find "disturbingly amazing" is this oft repeated
nonsense that if I don't support Bush's Crusade, I support the terrorists.
NEWS FLASH: Scientists have concluded that there may be MORE than TWO
approaches to the problem of terrorism. This should come as a relief to
those who have believed that our only options are: 1. wage war on Islamic
countries, or 2. do nothing. Yes, folks, there may be other possibilities
in between those two extremes, as the recent thwarted terror plot in Britain
demonstrates.
"OK, smart-ass, what about Iran?" you may be asking about now. Yes, what
about Iran? Shall we leave Iraq in the toilet and try the same thing in
Iran and hope for a different result? Isn't that the definition of
insanity? OK, you say, what if Iran gets a nuke or two? Yeah, what if? Do
you think they're going to guarantee their own obliteration by lobbing nukes
into Israel? Or what? Isn't it possible that Iran notices that we haven't
even threatened to attack North Korea, the neglected "Axis of Evil" sibling?
Perhaps Iran is thinking, "If we have nukes, the US won't dare invade us."
That would be a logical conclustion on their part, don't you think? If Iran
is financing terror, we're going to need the help of our allies, if we have
any left, to deal with them. We're also going to need leaders a lot smarter
and more honest than the one's we've got.
Here's a thought -- it occurs to me that in fighting the Nazis, Communism,
and now Terrorism that our real consistent enemy in all these is brutal
authoritarianism, AKA totalitarianism: we don't cotton to anyone trying to
violently force their beliefs upon everyone else. Well, wake up and smell
the despots, gang, because in our blind terror of Islamic extremists, we're
allowing the very thing we fight against to creep into our own government.
And this is proven every time someone is accused of "appeasing the
terrorists" because they oppose the "war" in Iraq.
Look, once and for all -- NOBODY LIKES TERRORISTS, OK? Except other
terrorists. But this doesn't mean we should continue to let insane people
lead the charge against them.
Love,
Sarah
"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote in message news:450ca327@linux...
>I recall a similar irony, if that's the right word, during the Danish
>cartoon flap: Muslim fanatics using violence to protest the implication
>that Islam is a violent religion. Is it possible they didn't realize they
>were proving the validity of the cartoons? Hard to believe.
>
> Unfortunately, Osama bin Laden and others have much of the Muslim world
> convinced that the US is engaged in a war on Islam. Even more
> unfortunately, I think for some this actually is an unspoken motive in our
> "war on terror."
>
> To paraphrase John Lennon: imagine . . . no religion.
>
> Sigh,
>
> Sarah
>
>
> "Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote in message
> news:C131DB49.356D%dterry@keyofd.net...
>>I don't want to start another religious or political thread - I just found
>> this ironic, at best:
>>
>> The Pope is under fire from the Islamic community because he quoted a
>> Byzantine emperor's ancient writings in a talk rejecting religious
>> motivation for violence. The emperor, in obscure writings hundreds of
>> year
>> old, characterized the teachings of Muhammad (Islam's founder) as "evil
>> and
>> inhuman" because if it's command to "spread by the sword the faith". The
>> Pope made no such characterization - just quoted the old guy, and it
>> isn't
>> even clear if he quoted any of the "offensive" text.
>>
>> As a protest, two Catholic, two Anglican, and one Greek church in the
>> West
>> Bank were attacked by Palestinians using guns, firebombs and lighter
>> fluid -
>> charring the churches and riddling them with bullet holes.
>>
>> Umm...reality check: 2+2=4. The Earth still circles the Sun. And
>> doesn't
>> reacting with violence just prove the Emperor's assessment, and then
>> some?
>> Yet the press and the Islamic world seem to have missed the irony of this
>> response, or at least are reluctant to admit it.
>>
>> The Pope's comment is getting more press than the fact that violence was
>> actually perpetrated when the churches were torched. To note, this was a
>> response, not a crime.
>>
>> Why are we (the world culture) so quick to defend Islam and work so hard
>> to
>> avoid offending Muslims, regardless of the cost - even if it means
>> rewriting
>> the definitions of peace and violence? Just something to think about....
>>
>> Ignorance isn't bliss, it's the last step one takes before falling off of
>> a
>> cliff.
>>
>> Back to music...
>> Dedric
>>
>
>Hi,
Just wanted to check: format Z:\64 sets cluster size to 32k, right? Which,
as it happened, was the default size formatting my 320Gb drives with Partition
Magic 8.01.
I've gone with FAT32 simply because I may need a Win98 install, either for
Paris (my XP install is buggy, though I suspect it's my dodgy AsusA7V880
motherboard) or for my Korg Oasys, which only runs under Win98. Seems that
for audio, there's little difference between NTFS and FAT32.
Danwhat folder
I'm on a PC using XP
DonAlso can I delete them and reinstall them without deleting and reinstalling
Paris?
Don
"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:450d2a0c@linux...
> what folder
>
> I'm on a PC using XP
>
> Don
>Don't confuse seeking peace with not having resolve to kill and obliterate
dangerous groups of people. I was just always impressed with Kissinger's
dialog. He struck me as someone who really really wanted peace and knew
clearly the horrific consequences of not achieving it.
There seem to be far too many people that just want to push a button and
have the 'problem' go away regardless of collateral damage.
So, WHO today has this kind of diplomatic ability? I don't see anyone who
clearly speaks in an effective measured, peace seeking role. I don't know
anyone who seems to have the cool head that I percieve Kissinger had. Also,
I'm not a history buff so I don't know everything about Kissinger but he
always struck me as the ultimate diplomat.
JohnI thought they were on www.parisfaqs.com but I don't see em. I have em on
my server if you can't find em, let me know and I'll upload them to yousendit.com
There are three pieces to paris xp. Scherzo driver, Paris app and effects
subsystem. You should be able to add remove programs for the subsystem
and Paris. Everything only takes 5 mins so I would backup your "default project.ppj",
paris.cfg and the "effects.var" (i forget it's real name). Remove all and
reinstall in order...scherzo, paris, subsystem.
John
"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>Also can I delete them and reinstall them without deleting and reinstalling
>Paris?
>
>Don
>
>
>"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:450d2a0c@linux...
>> what folder
>>
>> I'm on a PC using XP
>>
>> Don
>>
>
>Yes 32k.....you're good to go !
"dan b" <daniel_burneNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Hi,
>Just wanted to check: format Z:\64 sets cluster size to 32k, right? Which,
>as it happened, was the default size formatting my 320Gb drives with Partition
>Magic 8.01.
>I've gone with FAT32 simply because I may need a Win98 install, either for
>Paris (my XP install is buggy, though I suspect it's my dodgy AsusA7V880
>motherboard) or for my Korg Oasys, which only runs under Win98. Seems that
>for audio, there's little difference between NTFS and FAT32.
>DanSorry wrong question...I have the drivers...where are they located in my
computer and can they be deleted and reinstalled without uninstalling Paris
Don
"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:450d3c18$1@linux...
>
> I thought they were on www.parisfaqs.com but I don't see em. I have em on
> my server if you can't find em, let me know and I'll upload them to
> yousendit.com
>
> There are three pieces to paris xp. Scherzo driver, Paris app and effects
> subsystem. You should be able to add remove programs for the subsystem
> and Paris. Everything only takes 5 mins so I would backup your "default
> project.ppj",
> paris.cfg and the "effects.var" (i forget it's real name). Remove all and
> reinstall in order...scherzo, paris, subsystem.
>
> John
>
>
> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>>Also can I delete them and reinstall them without deleting and
>>reinstalling
>
>>Paris?
>>
>>Don
>>
>>
>>"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:450d2a0c@linux...
>>> what folder
>>>
>>> I'm on a PC using XP
>>>
>>> Don
>>>
>>
>>
>I would like to check my 8 out cards before I finalise their sale and as
I've never had to use them the really friggin' dumb Q is
how do I get the audio on track 1 out of output 1 on the first card (S3) and
audio on track 9 out the output 1 on my second card (S4)
D> Almost all of our allies are abandoning >us, or at the least distancing
themselves from us.
This started long before 9-11. France, Russia , China and the UN were
working against us throughout the 90's. We just didn't have a clue because
we didn't have an intelligence service.
"gene Lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:450d0128$1@linux...
>
> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Gene, maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying, but it sounds like
> >you are saying that Bush is starting and wants a religious war. I think
> >you may be confused. Other people have already started the religious
> war.
> > Look in to the sixth and seventh pillar of Islam, some where in there it
> >speaks of living by the sword. In other words, if you don't convert, you
> >are to die. I for one do not believe they are civil or peaceful people.
> > There has not been peace among those people for thousands of years, and
> >now THEY have sucked us in.
> >
> >They would be nothing in the middle east, but the Communists, Russia and
> >China, supplied all these third world countries with tons of weapons!
Now
> >they can make bombs and wage war. Now they know how to make nuclear
bombs
> >that can take out US cities. Look at the middle east, south America,
North
> >Korea and the mess all across the continent of Africa. Evil people gave
> >more evil people weapons to fight wars with. This has created a world
problem,
> >and the Communist want to keep supplying them with weapons and
technology.
> > I know, here comes the liberals with, we gave them weapons too. Think
> about
> >it, where did this start?
> >
> >I'm no fan of Bush, but it's just too easy, and unfair to say it's all
Bush's
> >fault.
> >
> > I will say however, the War in Iraq was completely mishandled. Just do
> >the math, one hundred and fifty thousand troops to take care of thirty
five
> >million people plus, and thousands of miles of open boarder, in a place
> >the size of California. With five million troops, maybe??? I believe
Bush
> >and his friends wanted to be there for years and make all kinds of money
> >on this war. He has created a bigger problem by not taking care of Iraq
> >quickly. There is a lot of blame to go around in our federal government,
> >it's not just one man.
> >
> >As far as the war on terror, people should be honest with themselves. you
> >can't negotiate a war. there is no diplomatic solution to a war. If you
> >stop to talk, they reinforce, rebuild, and reorganize for more war. Or
> did
> >we forget the lessons of the past.
> >
> >In the end, bombs can never stop idealism. The problem is the people
that
> >want Jehad will not stop. Peace will never be lasting with these people,
> >it's in their nature to be waring. They think they will be rewarded if
> they
> >kill and die in the name of Islam. So how do you fix it?
> >
> > We are more concerned with terrorist rights than doing the job we need
> to
> >do. When they hit us, we'll have to take them out, make no mistake, it's
> >going to get serious. When they kill millions of americans, blame the
spineless
> >politicians that wanted to talk things out and find political solutions
> instead
> >of facing the hard truth, we are at WAR. We should take care of the
problems
> >now, but we are just too weak as a nation. Really think about why we
are
> >weak as a nation, and where the blame should go.
> >
> >James
> >
>
>
> James,
> You have just as much right to your opinion as I do and I know we won't
change
> each other's minds one iota, but I still have to question you about this
> statement:
>
> "We should take care of the problems now, but we are just too weak as a
nation."
>
> Please help me define what the problem is. Is it Muslims? Just some
Muslims?
> Which ones?
>
> What about North Korea? They are not Muslims, but they are first (or
perhaps
> second) on the list of "most likely to do bad things" to us - Big bad bomb
> things. Pakistan is Muslim and they have several bombs. They have just
signed
> a treaty with the Taliban, and they are hiding the real person that caused
> 9/11, where is the outrage against Osama bin Laden and the people
protecting
> him?
>
> How about the Non-Aligned Movement. Over 100 countries banding together
> against US policies and interests? - Should we get them all? Should we
start
> with Cuba or Venezuela?
>
> Now that we have succeeded in alienating ourselves from the majority of
the
> world, should we see them all as threats? Almost all of our allies are
abandoning
> us, or at the least distancing themselves from us. The only real leader
left
> is on our side is Tony Blair, and he has been summarily dismissed by his
> own party. With him out and anti-American sentiment running high in Great
> Britain, who do we have left?
>
> I never said it was all Bushes fault. He just took a relatively unheard of
> small time international criminal/terrorist (Osama bin Laden) and turned
> him into an international movement to destroy the US.
> _____________________________
>
> At a level of 1.2 billion, Muslims represent about 22% of the world's
population.
> They are the second largest religion in the world. Only Christianity is
larger,
> with 33% of the world's inhabitants.
> Islam is growing about 2.9% per year. This is faster than the total world
> population which increases about 2.3% annually. It is thus attracting a
progressively
> larger percentage of the world's population.
>
> Peace to all
> Gene
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>There seem to be far too many people that just want to push a button and
>have the 'problem' go away regardless of collateral damage.
..........and where exactly do you get this info? Seems to me that if your
assumption was right, North Korea wopuld be a parking lot right about now.
We have developed $250,000.00 cannon shells that can be shot out of a
howitzer from 25 miles away and hit within 10' of a scumbag so that we only
kill his human shields in the immediate vicinity. I'm finding it harder and
harder to justify spending this kind of money on people who haven't got the
common sense to take these people out themselves (and it's very disturbing
to me that I feel this way......but I'm beginning to).
"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:450d3909$1@linux...
>
> Don't confuse seeking peace with not having resolve to kill and obliterate
> dangerous groups of people. I was just always impressed with Kissinger's
> dialog. He struck me as someone who really really wanted peace and knew
> clearly the horrific consequences of not achieving it.
>
> There seem to be far too many people that just want to push a button and
> have the 'problem' go away regardless of collateral damage.
>
> So, WHO today has this kind of diplomatic ability? I don't see anyone who
> clearly speaks in an effective measured, peace seeking role. I don't know
> anyone who seems to have the cool head that I percieve Kissinger had.
Also,
> I'm not a history buff so I don't know everything about Kissinger but he
> always struck me as the ultimate diplomat.
>
> John
>
>Send the analog output to an insert point in the Paris patchbay.
"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:450d45bb@linux...
> I would like to check my 8 out cards before I finalise their sale and as
> I've never had to use them the really friggin' dumb Q is
>
> how do I get the audio on track 1 out of output 1 on the first card (S3)
and
> audio on track 9 out the output 1 on my second card (S4)
>
> D
>
>That's what I though...but don't you have to complete the circuit so to
speak
"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
news:450d48cc@linux...
> Send the analog output to an insert point in the Paris patchbay.
>
> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:450d45bb@linux...
>> I would like to check my 8 out cards before I finalise their sale and as
>> I've never had to use them the really friggin' dumb Q is
>>
>> how do I get the audio on track 1 out of output 1 on the first card (S3)
> and
>> audio on track 9 out the output 1 on my second card (S4)
>>
>> D
>>
>>
>
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C6DA41.98BFBDB0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Don,
Yes, Mec A channel 1 out to Insert channel 1 in and Insert channel 1 out
to Mec A channel 1 input. Same for channel 9. Make sure you drag =
'External'=20
into the Paris Mixer inserts for channels 1 and 9.
Tom
"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:450d4acf@linux...
That's what I though...but don't you have to complete the circuit so =
to=20
speak
"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message=20
news:450d48cc@linux...
> Send the analog output to an insert point in the Paris patchbay.
>
> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:450d45bb@linux...
>> I would like to check my 8 out cards before I finalise their sale =
and as
>> I've never had to use them the really friggin' dumb Q is
>>
>> how do I get the audio on track 1 out of output 1 on the first card =
(S3)
> and
>> audio on track 9 out the output 1 on my second card (S4)
>>
>> D
>>
>>
>
>=20
I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C6DA41.98BFBDB0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Don,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yes, Mec A channel 1 out to Insert =
channel 1 in and=20
Insert channel 1 out</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>to Mec A channel 1 input. Same =
for channel=20
9. Make sure you drag 'External' </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>into the Paris Mixer </FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>inserts for channels 1 and 9.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Don Nafe" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:dnafe@magma.ca">dnafe@magma.ca</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
href=3D"news:450d4acf@linux">news:450d4acf@linux</A>...</DIV>That's =
what I=20
though...but don't you have to complete the circuit so to=20
<BR>speak<BR><BR><BR>"DJ" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net">animix_spam-this-ahole=
_@animas.net</A>>=20
wrote in message <BR><A=20
href=3D"news:450d48cc@linux">news:450d48cc@linux</A>...<BR>> Send =
the analog=20
output to an insert point in the Paris patchbay.<BR>><BR>> "Don =
Nafe"=20
<<A href=3D"mailto:dnafe@magma.ca">dnafe@magma.ca</A>> wrote in =
message <A=20
href=3D"news:450d45bb@linux">news:450d45bb@linux</A>...<BR>>> I =
would like=20
to check my 8 out cards before I finalise their sale and =
as<BR>>> I've=20
never had to use them the really friggin' dumb Q =
is<BR>>><BR>>>=20
how do I get the audio on track 1 out of output 1 on the first card=20
(S3)<BR>> and<BR>>> audio on track 9 out the output 1 on my =
second=20
card (S4)<BR>>><BR>>> =
D<BR>>><BR>>><BR>><BR >>=20
<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR><BR>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, =
and=20
you?<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html">http://www.polesoft.com/refer=
..html</A> </FONT></DIV></BODY ></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C6DA41.98BFBDB0--This just started happening.
I shut down Paris and get the first notice....clicking on "click here" gets
the second image and clicking on "click here" brings up an error report that
is all gobbledee-gook to me - many modules listed the a whole wack of
numbers and letters
Running on a PC with XP
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0128_01C6DA43.AC8BB9A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
works like a charm...
so if I send Mec out 1 to insert 1 in and insert 1 out to Mec 9 in =
the audio should come down channel 9=20
thanks guys
"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote in message =
news:450d55aa@linux...
Don,
Yes, Mec A channel 1 out to Insert channel 1 in and Insert channel 1 =
out
to Mec A channel 1 input. Same for channel 9. Make sure you drag =
'External'=20
into the Paris Mixer inserts for channels 1 and 9.
Tom
"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:450d4acf@linux...
That's what I though...but don't you have to complete the circuit so =
to=20
speak
"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message=20
news:450d48cc@linux...
> Send the analog output to an insert point in the Paris patchbay.
>
> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message =
news:450d45bb@linux...
>> I would like to check my 8 out cards before I finalise their sale =
and as
>> I've never had to use them the really friggin' dumb Q is
>>
>> how do I get the audio on track 1 out of output 1 on the first =
card (S3)
> and
>> audio on track 9 out the output 1 on my second card (S4)
>>
>> D
>>
>>
>
>=20
I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
------=_NextPart_000_0128_01C6DA43.AC8BB9A0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>works like a charm...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>so if I send Mec out 1 to insert =
1=20
in and insert 1 out to Mec 9 in the =
audio=20
should come down channel 9 </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>thanks guys</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"Tom Bruhl" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>> wrote in =
message=20
<A href=3D"news:450d55aa@linux">news:450d55aa@linux</A>...</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Don,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yes, Mec A channel 1 out to Insert =
channel 1 in=20
and Insert channel 1 out</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>to Mec A channel 1 input. Same =
for channel=20
9. Make sure you drag 'External' </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>into the Paris Mixer </FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>inserts for channels 1 and 9.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Don Nafe" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:dnafe@magma.ca">dnafe@magma.ca</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
href=3D"news:450d4acf@linux">news:450d4acf@linux</A>...</DIV>That's =
what I=20
though...but don't you have to complete the circuit so to=20
<BR>speak<BR><BR><BR>"DJ" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net">animix_spam-this-ahole=
_@animas.net</A>>=20
wrote in message <BR><A=20
href=3D"news:450d48cc@linux">news:450d48cc@linux</A>...<BR>> Send =
the=20
analog output to an insert point in the Paris =
patchbay.<BR>><BR>> "Don=20
Nafe" <<A href=3D"mailto:dnafe@magma.ca">dnafe@magma.ca</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A =
href=3D"news:450d45bb@linux">news:450d45bb@linux</A>...<BR>>>=20
I would like to check my 8 out cards before I finalise their sale =
and=20
as<BR>>> I've never had to use them the really friggin' dumb Q =
is<BR>>><BR>>> how do I get the audio on track 1 out of =
output 1=20
on the first card (S3)<BR>> and<BR>>> audio on track 9 out =
the=20
output 1 on my second card (S4)<BR>>><BR>>>=20
D<BR>>><BR>>><BR>><BR >> <BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR><BR>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, =
and=20
you?<BR><A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html">http://www.polesoft.com/refer=
..html</A> </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE ></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0128_01C6DA43.AC8BB9A0--"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message news:450cfaab$1@linux...
>>As a US citizen, I feel like I have been put on the list by the
>>unconscionable
>>actions of our government.
>>
>>Torture, sure.
>
> There is no torture, not by any sane definition of the word.
hehe, classic.Check it...
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS03-007. mspx
Are you running Service Pack 2?
"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>This just started happening.
>
>I shut down Paris and get the first notice....clicking on "click here" gets
>the second image and clicking on "click here" brings up an error report
that
>is all gobbledee-gook to me - many modules listed the a whole wack of
>numbers and letters
>
>Running on a PC with XP
>
>
>
>One man's obvious truth is another man's propaganda.
Factual truth is not the same as spin. Whatever you believe, (I'm not
speaking here of you specifically, Chris, but anyone), if you think
people who disagree with you are simply blind, you may be experiencing
confirmation bias.
A possible treatment for this is to find a friend who disagrees with
you, sit down with them, and really listen to their reasoning. Hold your
knee-jerk responses in check. Then find another friend with another
point of view and do the same. If you are particularly brave, talk with
strangers. You don't have to lose your point of view, but use these
conversations as an opportunity to drop any internal defensive system
and try, for a moment, to see things from someone else's point of view
without promoting your own. It's a healthy brain exercise. We may find
it's easier to love others when we operate from inclusively rather than
defensive insecurity.
Those of us who live in free countries MUST live with disagreement.
Disagreement makes free systems much stronger than systems that rigidly
enforce a single point of view, because free systems examine problems
from more than one perspective. The best solutions may come from a
combination of perspectives. At the very least there will be more
solutions from which to choose.
It's therefore healthy that we can have disagreements and enjoy
discussions to explore them.
It's just as important that within these discussions at least some
listening take place. If it's all mere preaching to respective exclusive
choirs then it becomes a sort of babble.
I think most people can agree that fanatical, power hungry ideologues
attempting to recruit others to kill for them are a danger to civilized
society.
If an authority figure encourages a person to feel cornered and
desperate, and then asks for his support in the context of that fear,
the person could willingly become a pawn to the authority figure's aims.
The person could, through manipulation of his own confirmation bias,
feel rewarded by following a movement, even a destructive movement.
Confirmation bias is a reward within the brain when you find information
that seems to support your own beliefs while generally ignoring even
factual information that contradicts what you believe. From there the
human talent of rationalization can kick in with the ability to feel
smug and superior over those who "simply cannot see." And thus we don
our own ironic blinders.
It can happen to anyone anywhere. It appears to be one of the trailer
hitches on the human brain by which you can be towed willingly along
while believing you are the driver.
It makes us susceptible, even receptive, to half-truths and even
outright lies. We can be mislead by scapegoating. Herded by pride.
Become parrots of spin and stake our lives on propaganda.
Fanatical nationalism, fanatical religious fervor, these can be
harnessed as Machiavellian tools by con artists, wannabe kings, despots,
technocrats and theocrats alike. It can happen anywhere.
We are not immune, but we are stronger by having a culture of free
thinking, respectful listening and vigorous discussion. Still, we are
NOT immune.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
Cheers,
-Jamie
http://www.JamieKrutz.com
Chris Latham wrote:
> Well stated!!!
> It just amazes me how blind some people and the mainstream media can be to
> obvious TRUTH!
>
> CL
>
>You should have paris and the effects subsystem in add remove programs and
in device manager you can uninstall the scherzo drivers if I remember correctly.
John
"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>Sorry wrong question...I have the drivers...where are they located in my
>computer and can they be deleted and reinstalled without uninstalling Paris
>
>Don
>
>
>"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:450d3c18$1@linux...
>>
>> I thought they were on www.parisfaqs.com but I don't see em. I have em
on
>> my server if you can't find em, let me know and I'll upload them to
>> yousendit.com
>>
>> There are three pieces to paris xp. Scherzo driver, Paris app and effects
>> subsystem. You should be able to add remove programs for the subsystem
>> and Paris. Everything only takes 5 mins so I would backup your "default
>> project.ppj",
>> paris.cfg and the "effects.var" (i forget it's real name). Remove all
and
>> reinstall in order...scherzo, paris, subsystem.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>>>Also can I delete them and reinstall them without deleting and
>>>reinstalling
>>
>>>Paris?
>>>
>>>Don
>>>
>>>
>>>"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:450d2a0c@linux...
>>>> what folder
>>>>
>>>> I'm on a PC using XP
>>>>
>>>> Don
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>Just to be clear, my question is "Who are the diplomats of today".
"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>>There seem to be far too many people that just want to push a button and
>>have the 'problem' go away regardless of collateral damage.
>
>.........and where exactly do you get this info? Seems to me that if your
>assumption was right, North Korea wopuld be a parking lot right about now.
>We have developed $250,000.00 cannon shells that can be shot out of a
>howitzer from 25 miles away and hit within 10' of a scumbag so that we only
>kill his human shields in the immediate vicinity. I'm finding it harder
and
>harder to justify spending this kind of money on people who haven't got
the
>common sense to take these people out themselves (and it's very disturbing
>to me that I feel this way......but I'm beginning to).
>
>
>
>"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:450d3909$1@linux...
>>
>> Don't confuse seeking peace with not having resolve to kill and obliterate
>> dangerous groups of people. I was just always impressed with Kissinger's
>> dialog. He struck me as someone who really really wanted peace and knew
>> clearly the horrific consequences of not achieving it.
>>
>> There seem to be far too many people that just want to push a button and
>> have the 'problem' go away regardless of collateral damage.
>>
>> So, WHO today has this kind of diplomatic ability? I don't see anyone
who
>> clearly speaks in an effective measured, peace seeking role. I don't know
>> anyone who seems to have the cool head that I percieve Kissinger had.
>Also,
>> I'm not a history buff so I don't know everything about Kissinger but
he
>> always struck me as the ultimate diplomat.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>
>Hi Sarah,
No one said you had to support Bush to not support terrorists, at least I
never did. It really doesn't help your argument to use sarcasm though.
I am referring to the ideology that has been growing in our country for many
years - way before Bush 1, or Reagan for that matter. It has nothing to do
with Bush 2. I was talking about the world's view of Islam in light of the
Pope's comments, so the fact that he keeps coming up as the response,
regardless of the original topic, just shows that we would rather blame Bush
than address what is happening in the world and in our country's ideology -
the people, not the government. The government has nothing to do with the
belief systems and relativism that is pervading our culture, media, schools,
streets, conversations - it's just a side topic for Monday morning water
cooler talk by pale comparison - one that ebbs and flows in the tide of that
ideology of the people.
After Bush leaves office I believe we will see the greatest surge of
relativistic and chaotic thinking in our history as a reaction of
counter-instinct. It isn't about supporting Bush, and I'm not "blaming" the
coming reaction on a lack of support for Bush - I couldn't care less if you
like him - it's been coming regardless. I don't hate Bush, but I don't like
him as a President either. I support our country though and want to see it
become a great and revered nation solely for it's commitment to caring about
and aiding people that can't help themselves, but that is probably wishful
thinking.
I can see past the political fears and ideology to understand that we were
also in serious danger during Reagan's years (Russia), Bush 1, and Clinton
too as terrorism worked on plans for 9/11 and more that we've since averted,
simply because the FBI, CIA and other police are on the vigil more than
before. We created the political climate we live with administration after
administration - one of deals and compromise to keep the right people happy.
It's better than many alternatives, but in way it just propagates a lack of
significant positive change in exchange for subtly slow moral decay, since
it in and of itself, and our competitive commerce driven society promotes a
lack of integrity. Until people (everyone, not just leaders) are willing to
risk money, careers, notoriety and stability to stand for something of more
substance than sustaining the nice house, car and happy-go-lucky lifestyle
we enjoy here, we will continue to cower to the whims of politics and the
special interest flavor of the day instead.
I do agree that there is more than one way to fight terrorism - yes, 3, 4 5,
maybe 100,000,000. Waging "war" on Islam isn't the answer. But assuming
this terror war is simply another political disagreement that can be
diplomatically solved with embargos and slaps on the wrist by the UN is also
overly optimistic - if only, really I wish it were. I'm not saying you think
it is - just making a point.
Truthfully, I don't believe we will ever "win" the war on terror, or rather
the ideology that is behind it. We will just delay it for a few years here
and there over the next 10, 20, maybe more if we are lucky. But, eventually
we will lose, and lose badly, simply because we as a nation don't have an
ideology that is stronger, more grounded, and more committed than theirs.
Then again, we really are fighting the wrong war, and I'm not referring to
Iraq.
Regards,
Dedric
On 9/17/06 2:58 AM, in article 450d0c7e@linux, "Sarah"
<sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
> I don't know if I'm a "leftie" (or a hippie for that matter), but I do know
> I'm definitely not blind. And here's another thing I'm not -- I'm not an
> idiot.
>
> Not being an idiot enables me to reason beyond simplistic black-or-white
> logic. In doing so, what I find "disturbingly amazing" is this oft repeated
> nonsense that if I don't support Bush's Crusade, I support the terrorists.
>
> NEWS FLASH: Scientists have concluded that there may be MORE than TWO
> approaches to the problem of terrorism. This should come as a relief to
> those who have believed that our only options are: 1. wage war on Islamic
> countries, or 2. do nothing. Yes, folks, there may be other possibilities
> in between those two extremes, as the recent thwarted terror plot in Britain
> demonstrates.
>
> "OK, smart-ass, what about Iran?" you may be asking about now. Yes, what
> about Iran? Shall we leave Iraq in the toilet and try the same thing in
> Iran and hope for a different result? Isn't that the definition of
> insanity? OK, you say, what if Iran gets a nuke or two? Yeah, what if? Do
> you think they're going to guarantee their own obliteration by lobbing nukes
> into Israel? Or what? Isn't it possible that Iran notices that we haven't
> even threatened to attack North Korea, the neglected "Axis of Evil" sibling?
> Perhaps Iran is thinking, "If we have nukes, the US won't dare invade us."
> That would be a logical conclustion on their part, don't you think? If Iran
> is financing terror, we're going to need the help of our allies, if we have
> any left, to deal with them. We're also going to need leaders a lot smarter
> and more honest than the one's we've got.
>
> Here's a thought -- it occurs to me that in fighting the Nazis, Communism,
> and now Terrorism that our real consistent enemy in all these is brutal
> authoritarianism, AKA totalitarianism: we don't cotton to anyone trying to
> violently force their beliefs upon everyone else. Well, wake up and smell
> the despots, gang, because in our blind terror of Islamic extremists, we're
> allowing the very thing we fight against to creep into our own government.
> And this is proven every time someone is accused of "appeasing the
> terrorists" because they oppose the "war" in Iraq.
>
> Look, once and for all -- NOBODY LIKES TERRORISTS, OK? Except other
> terrorists. But this doesn't mean we should continue to let insane people
> lead the charge against them.
>
> Love,
>
> Sarah
>
>
> "Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote in message news:450ca327@linux...
>> I recall a similar irony, if that's the right word, during the Danish
>> cartoon flap: Muslim fanatics using violence to protest the implication
>> that Islam is a violent religion. Is it possible they didn't realize they
>> were proving the validity of the cartoons? Hard to believe.
>>
>> Unfortunately, Osama bin Laden and others have much of the Muslim world
>> convinced that the US is engaged in a war on Islam. Even more
>> unfortunately, I think for some this actually is an unspoken motive in our
>> "war on terror."
>>
>> To paraphrase John Lennon: imagine . . . no religion.
>>
>> Sigh,
>>
>> Sarah
>>
>>
>> "Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote in message
>> news:C131DB49.356D%dterry@keyofd.net...
>>> I don't want to start another religious or political thread - I just found
>>> this ironic, at best:
>>>
>>> The Pope is under fire from the Islamic community because he quoted a
>>> Byzantine emperor's ancient writings in a talk rejecting religious
>>> motivation for violence. The emperor, in obscure writings hundreds of
>>> year
>>> old, characterized the teachings of Muhammad (Islam's founder) as "evil
>>> and
>>> inhuman" because if it's command to "spread by the sword the faith". The
>>> Pope made no such characterization - just quoted the old guy, and it
>>> isn't
>>> even clear if he quoted any of the "offensive" text.
>>>
>>> As a protest, two Catholic, two Anglican, and one Greek church in the
>>> West
>>> Bank were attacked by Palestinians using guns, firebombs and lighter
>>> fluid -
>>> charring the churches and riddling them with bullet holes.
>>>
>>> Umm...reality check: 2+2=4. The Earth still circles the Sun. And
>>> doesn't
>>> reacting with violence just prove the Emperor's assessment, and then
>>> some?
>>> Yet the press and the Islamic world seem to have missed the irony of this
>>> response, or at least are reluctant to admit it.
>>>
>>> The Pope's comment is getting more press than the fact that violence was
>>> actually perpetrated when the churches were torched. To note, this was a
>>> response, not a crime.
>>>
>>> Why are we (the world culture) so quick to defend Islam and work so hard
>>> to
>>> avoid offending Muslims, regardless of the cost - even if it means
>>> rewriting
>>> the definitions of peace and violence? Just something to think about....
>>>
>>> Ignorance isn't bliss, it's the last step one takes before falling off of
>>> a
>>> cliff.
>>>
>>> Back to music...
>>> Dedric
>>>
>>
>>
>
>To find the crassest of the villains, follow the money.
Cheers,
-Jamie
http://www.JamieKrutz.com
gene Lennon wrote:
> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>> Gene,
>>
>> If I actually believed this, I might agree with you. We've certainly
>> disagreed on a number of issues like this but I respect your opinion. I'm
>> sincerely interested to know if this is for real. I've got no problem with
>> people practicing their faith but I do believe that faith in something (like
>> armageddon) can definitely bring it about. I've read a number of articles
>> discussing thes things you bring up here, but the sources were easily as
>> fanatical as they purported Bush to be.
>>
>> I agree that we may be living in the most dangerous time in the history
> of
>> the human race, but I don't see the same villian that you do.
>>
>> Deej
>>
>
>
> There is not just one villain, there are plenty of villains. Saddam Hussein,
> sure, Kim Il-sung, absolutely. The Janjaweed – yep, Taliban, OK.
>
> I don’t want to be on this list!
>
> As a US citizen, I feel like I have been put on the list by the unconscionable
> actions of our government.
>
> Torture, sure…start wars without cause, OK, cause the deaths of tens of thousands
> if not hundreds of thousands of innocent people in the name of bringing them
> freedom, no problem. Open everyone’s mail, have trials and find people guilty
> and put them to death without ever showing any evidence, why not.
>
> Well I do have a problem. It is NOT OK.
>
> I want my country back.
>
> It was never perfect. No country ever was, but we stood for something great,
> even if we sometimes had less than stellar moments. I know in my heart that
> if the Founding Fathers of the United States were alive today they would
> be calling for impeachment or revolution.
>
> I don’t care if the President prays. We have had many excellent and effective
> presidents that were deeply religions, but if he thinks that all the wars
> and problems we are having in the world are actually a good thing because
> they have ignited a resurgence in Christian Values, we are in deep shit.
> GeneNot sure but it almost makes sense as the network is the latest and only
addition to my setup.
I'll have my guru check this out and see if he can remedy the situation
DOn
"Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:450d5f44$1@linux...
>
> Check it...
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS03-007. mspx
>
> Are you running Service Pack 2?
>
>
> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>>This just started happening.
>>
>>I shut down Paris and get the first notice....clicking on "click here"
>>gets
>
>>the second image and clicking on "click here" brings up an error report
> that
>>is all gobbledee-gook to me - many modules listed the a whole wack of
>>numbers and letters
>>
>>Running on a PC with XP
>>
>>
>>
>>
>But you stated that there seemed to be far to many people who were ready to
push a button.....etc. I disagree.
I think we've got plenty of diplomats in this administration.. They have to
have something other than an ideological brick wall or a weasel to negotiate
with though. What good did *diplomacy* with the Koreans or Arafat. To
dispatch envoys to discuss international affiars and foriegn policy with
terrorists and Nazi maniacs like the Iranian prime minister legitimizes them
and their tactics.
http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=54 26
Back around 1970 when I was studing political science, one of the the
required courses of study was international government and politics. This
book was part of the required curriculum:
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/cup/catalog/data/071030/071030673 3.HTM
It was of particular interest to me because I had a job lined up in the
Middle East with a company out of New Orleans named McDermott International
to work in Saudi Arabia and the Persian Gulf. It was a great job.....stay 18
months and bring home an incredible amount of money tax free, but it was
considered dangerous duty over there, even then. The 1973 arab/israeli war
ended up blowing my whole plan out of the water because the company had to
reshuffle their experienced employees........but anyway........I read the
book and quite a few others dealing with the middle east with great
interest. Also I ha\d a frend who was an architecture student who was an
Iraqi American and we often talked about middle east affairs.......and still
do.
Anyway.......this part of the world has interested me for a long time so
fast forward to right after 911 but before the invasion of Iraq. I ran
across this article which pretty much is spot on IMO about the historical
situation as has existed for many years
http://www.fareedzakaria.com/ARTICLES/newsweek/101501_why.ht ml
....................and the most tragic part of it is the last paragraph
wherein the author states:
It sounds like a daunting challenge, but there are many good signs. Al Qaeda
is not more powerful than the combined force of many determined governments.
The world is indeed uniting around American leadership, and perhaps we will
see the emergence, for a while, of a new global community and consensus,
which could bring progress in many other areas of international life.
Perhaps most important, Islamic fundamentalism still does not speak to the
majority of the Muslim people. In Pakistan, fundamentalist parties have yet
to get more than 10 percent of the vote. In Iran, having experienced the
brutal puritanism of the mullahs, people are yearning for normalcy. In
Egypt, for all the repression, the fundamentalists are a potent force but so
far not dominant. If the West can help Islam enter modernity in dignity and
peace, it will have done more than achieved security. It will have changed
the world.
I have no reason not to believe (other than the rantings of the autohateBush
lunatic fringe community who want to politicize everything) that during this
period, had we possessed an intelligence service that could have warned the
administration about the duplicity of those in the global community who were
rearming Sadaam Hussein at the expense of the Iraqi people using the UN
Oil-For-Food program as their cover and the realities of the mountanous
stockpiles of munitions that have been converted to IED's and most likely
the destinations oin Syria and elsewhere where Sadaam was moving his WMD's
(I still think we haven't heard the last of this issue), we would have done
things differently. Instead we got a "legacy" intelligence service that was
horribly flawed. What we have discovered is that we had far more enemies
during the Clintin administration than anyone knew. Y
This is the intelligence service that bush inherited. You may or may not
think these sources credeible, but I think that historical reality has
proved them top be correct:
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040414-124718-2114r.htm
http://www.nationalreview.com/nr_comment/nr_comment042903.as p
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-07-24-intel-sid e_x.htm
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/535793/posts (this one is
especially disturbing)
Now what does this have to do with diplomacy? You have to have good
information in order to conduct diplomatic negotiations. Yeah, Rice could go
out there and negotiate with terrorists and the Korean lunatic. Clinton
tried it for 8 years. At some point you have to learn from mistakes of the
past.
"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:450d60c8$1@linux...
>
> Just to be clear, my question is "Who are the diplomats of today".
>
> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
> >>There seem to be far too many people that just want to push a button and
> >>have the 'problem' go away regardless of collateral damage.
> >
> >.........and where exactly do you get this info? Seems to me that if your
> >assumption was right, North Korea wopuld be a parking lot right about
now.
> >We have developed $250,000.00 cannon shells that can be shot out of a
> >howitzer from 25 miles away and hit within 10' of a scumbag so that we
only
> >kill his human shields in the immediate vicinity. I'm finding it harder
> and
> >harder to justify spending this kind of money on people who haven't got
> the
> >common sense to take these people out themselves (and it's very
disturbing
> >to me that I feel this way......but I'm beginning to).
> >
> >
> >
> >"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:450d3909$1@linux...
> >>
> >> Don't confuse seeking peace with not having resolve to kill and
obliterate
> >> dangerous groups of people. I was just always impressed with
Kissinger's
> >> dialog. He struck me as someone who really really wanted peace and
knew
> >> clearly the horrific consequences of not achieving it.
> >>
> >> There seem to be far too many people that just want to push a button
and
> >> have the 'problem' go away regardless of collateral damage.
> >>
> >> So, WHO today has this kind of diplomatic ability? I don't see anyone
> who
> >> clearly speaks in an effective measured, peace seeking role. I don't
know
> >> anyone who seems to have the cool head that I percieve Kissinger had.
> >Also,
> >> I'm not a history buff so I don't know everything about Kissinger but
> he
> >> always struck me as the ultimate diplomat.
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>Interesting Deej and insightful.
There are so many issues involved, but one of the main topics as it applies
to the current situation is has Bush's policies and actions increased or
decreased that islamic fundamentalist support? It seems to be growing like
wildfire whereas it used to be embers.
"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
news:450da2d8@linux...
> But you stated that there seemed to be far to many people who were ready
> to
> push a button.....etc. I disagree.
>
> I think we've got plenty of diplomats in this administration.. They have
> to
> have something other than an ideological brick wall or a weasel to
> negotiate
> with though. What good did *diplomacy* with the Koreans or Arafat. To
> dispatch envoys to discuss international affiars and foriegn policy with
> terrorists and Nazi maniacs like the Iranian prime minister legitimizes
> them
> and their tactics.
> http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=54 26
>
> Back around 1970 when I was studing political science, one of the the
> required courses of study was international government and politics. This
> book was part of the required curriculum:
> http://www.columbia.edu/cu/cup/catalog/data/071030/071030673 3.HTM
>
> It was of particular interest to me because I had a job lined up in the
> Middle East with a company out of New Orleans named McDermott
> International
> to work in Saudi Arabia and the Persian Gulf. It was a great job.....stay
> 18
> months and bring home an incredible amount of money tax free, but it was
> considered dangerous duty over there, even then. The 1973 arab/israeli war
> ended up blowing my whole plan out of the water because the company had to
> reshuffle their experienced employees........but anyway........I read the
> book and quite a few others dealing with the middle east with great
> interest. Also I ha\d a frend who was an architecture student who was an
> Iraqi American and we often talked about middle east affairs.......and
> still
> do.
>
> Anyway.......this part of the world has interested me for a long time so
> fast forward to right after 911 but before the invasion of Iraq. I ran
> across this article which pretty much is spot on IMO about the historical
> situation as has existed for many years
> http://www.fareedzakaria.com/ARTICLES/newsweek/101501_why.ht ml
>
> ...................and the most tragic part of it is the last paragraph
> wherein the author states:
>
> It sounds like a daunting challenge, but there are many good signs. Al
> Qaeda
> is not more powerful than the combined force of many determined
> governments.
> The world is indeed uniting around American leadership, and perhaps we
> will
> see the emergence, for a while, of a new global community and consensus,
> which could bring progress in many other areas of international life.
> Perhaps most important, Islamic fundamentalism still does not speak to the
> majority of the Muslim people. In Pakistan, fundamentalist parties have
> yet
> to get more than 10 percent of the vote. In Iran, having experienced the
> brutal puritanism of the mullahs, people are yearning for normalcy. In
> Egypt, for all the repression, the fundamentalists are a potent force but
> so
> far not dominant. If the West can help Islam enter modernity in dignity
> and
> peace, it will have done more than achieved security. It will have changed
> the world.
>
> I have no reason not to believe (other than the rantings of the
> autohateBush
> lunatic fringe community who want to politicize everything) that during
> this
> period, had we possessed an intelligence service that could have warned
> the
> administration about the duplicity of those in the global community who
> were
> rearming Sadaam Hussein at the expense of the Iraqi people using the UN
> Oil-For-Food program as their cover and the realities of the mountanous
> stockpiles of munitions that have been converted to IED's and most likely
> the destinations oin Syria and elsewhere where Sadaam was moving his WMD's
> (I still think we haven't heard the last of this issue), we would have
> done
> things differently. Instead we got a "legacy" intelligence service that
> was
> horribly flawed. What we have discovered is that we had far more enemies
> during the Clintin administration than anyone knew. Y
>
> This is the intelligence service that bush inherited. You may or may not
> think these sources credeible, but I think that historical reality has
> proved them top be correct:
> http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040414-124718-2114r.htm
> http://www.nationalreview.com/nr_comment/nr_comment042903.as p
> http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-07-24-intel-sid e_x.htm
> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/535793/posts (this one is
> especially disturbing)
>
> Now what does this have to do with diplomacy? You have to have good
> information in order to conduct diplomatic negotiations. Yeah, Rice could
> go
> out there and negotiate with terrorists and the Korean lunatic. Clinton
> tried it for 8 years. At some point you have to learn from mistakes of the
> past.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:450d60c8$1@linux...
>>
>> Just to be clear, my question is "Who are the diplomats of today".
>>
>> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>> >>There seem to be far too many people that just want to push a button
>> >>and
>> >>have the 'problem' go away regardless of collateral damage.
>> >
>> >.........and where exactly do you get this info? Seems to me that if
>> >your
>> >assumption was right, North Korea wopuld be a parking lot right about
> now.
>> >We have developed $250,000.00 cannon shells that can be shot out of a
>> >howitzer from 25 miles away and hit within 10' of a scumbag so that we
> only
>> >kill his human shields in the immediate vicinity. I'm finding it harder
>> and
>> >harder to justify spending this kind of money on people who haven't got
>> the
>> >common sense to take these people out themselves (and it's very
> disturbing
>> >to me that I feel this way......but I'm beginning to).
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:450d3909$1@linux...
>> >>
>> >> Don't confuse seeking peace with not having resolve to kill and
> obliterate
>> >> dangerous groups of people. I was just always impressed with
> Kissinger's
>> >> dialog. He struck me as someone who really really wanted peace and
> knew
>> >> clearly the horrific consequences of not achieving it.
>> >>
>> >> There seem to be far too many people that just want to push a button
> and
>> >> have the 'problem' go away regardless of collateral damage.
>> >>
>> >> So, WHO today has this kind of diplomatic ability? I don't see anyone
>> who
>> >> clearly speaks in an effective measured, peace seeking role. I don't
> know
>> >> anyone who seems to have the cool head that I percieve Kissinger had.
>> >Also,
>> >> I'm not a history buff so I don't know everything about Kissinger but
>> he
>> >> always struck me as the ultimate diplomat.
>> >>
>> >> John
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>Cron,
I think this has less to do with Bush and Iraq and more to do with finding a
time/place/excuse to wage this jihad. Iraq has provided all three, but I
think it would be happening elsewhere and if not now...............soon.
;o)
"justcron" <parisnews@hydrorecords.com> wrote in message
news:450da43b@linux...
> Interesting Deej and insightful.
>
> There are so many issues involved, but one of the main topics as it
applies
> to the current situation is has Bush's policies and actions increased or
> decreased that islamic fundamentalist support? It seems to be growing
like
> wildfire whereas it used to be embers.
>
> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
> news:450da2d8@linux...
> > But you stated that there seemed to be far to many people who were ready
> > to
> > push a button.....etc. I disagree.
> >
> > I think we've got plenty of diplomats in this administration.. They have
> > to
> > have something other than an ideological brick wall or a weasel to
> > negotiate
> > with though. What good did *diplomacy* with the Koreans or Arafat. To
> > dispatch envoys to discuss international affiars and foriegn policy with
> > terrorists and Nazi maniacs like the Iranian prime minister legitimizes
> > them
> > and their tactics.
> > http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=54 26
> >
> > Back around 1970 when I was studing political science, one of the the
> > required courses of study was international government and politics.
This
> > book was part of the required curriculum:
> > http://www.columbia.edu/cu/cup/catalog/data/071030/071030673 3.HTM
> >
> > It was of particular interest to me because I had a job lined up in the
> > Middle East with a company out of New Orleans named McDermott
> > International
> > to work in Saudi Arabia and the Persian Gulf. It was a great
job.....stay
> > 18
> > months and bring home an incredible amount of money tax free, but it was
> > considered dangerous duty over there, even then. The 1973 arab/israeli
war
> > ended up blowing my whole plan out of the water because the company had
to
> > reshuffle their experienced employees........but anyway........I read
the
> > book and quite a few others dealing with the middle east with great
> > interest. Also I ha\d a frend who was an architecture student who was an
> > Iraqi American and we often talked about middle east affairs.......and
> > still
> > do.
> >
> > Anyway.......this part of the world has interested me for a long time so
> > fast forward to right after 911 but before the invasion of Iraq. I ran
> > across this article which pretty much is spot on IMO about the
historical
> > situation as has existed for many years
> > http://www.fareedzakaria.com/ARTICLES/newsweek/101501_why.ht ml
> >
> > ...................and the most tragic part of it is the last paragraph
> > wherein the author states:
> >
> > It sounds like a daunting challenge, but there are many good signs. Al
> > Qaeda
> > is not more powerful than the combined force of many determined
> > governments.
> > The world is indeed uniting around American leadership, and perhaps we
> > will
> > see the emergence, for a while, of a new global community and consensus,
> > which could bring progress in many other areas of international life.
> > Perhaps most important, Islamic fundamentalism still does not speak to
the
> > majority of the Muslim people. In Pakistan, fundamentalist parties have
> > yet
> > to get more than 10 percent of the vote. In Iran, having experienced the
> > brutal puritanism of the mullahs, people are yearning for normalcy. In
> > Egypt, for all the repression, the fundamentalists are a potent force
but
> > so
> > far not dominant. If the West can help Islam enter modernity in dignity
> > and
> > peace, it will have done more than achieved security. It will have
changed
> > the world.
> >
> > I have no reason not to believe (other than the rantings of the
> > autohateBush
> > lunatic fringe community who want to politicize everything) that during
> > this
> > period, had we possessed an intelligence service that could have warned
> > the
> > administration about the duplicity of those in the global community who
> > were
> > rearming Sadaam Hussein at the expense of the Iraqi people using the UN
> > Oil-For-Food program as their cover and the realities of the mountanous
> > stockpiles of munitions that have been converted to IED's and most
likely
> > the destinations oin Syria and elsewhere where Sadaam was moving his
WMD's
> > (I still think we haven't heard the last of this issue), we would have
> > done
> > things differently. Instead we got a "legacy" intelligence service that
> > was
> > horribly flawed. What we have discovered is that we had far more enemies
> > during the Clintin administration than anyone knew. Y
> >
> > This is the intelligence service that bush inherited. You may or may not
> > think these sources credeible, but I think that historical reality has
> > proved them top be correct:
> > http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040414-124718-2114r.htm
> > http://www.nationalreview.com/nr_comment/nr_comment042903.as p
> > http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-07-24-intel-sid e_x.htm
> > http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/535793/posts (this one is
> > especially disturbing)
> >
> > Now what does this have to do with diplomacy? You have to have good
> > information in order to conduct diplomatic negotiations. Yeah, Rice
could
> > go
> > out there and negotiate with terrorists and the Korean lunatic. Clinton
> > tried it for 8 years. At some point you have to learn from mistakes of
the
> > past.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:450d60c8$1@linux...
> >>
> >> Just to be clear, my question is "Who are the diplomats of today".
> >>
> >> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
> >> >>There seem to be far too many people that just want to push a button
> >> >>and
> >> >>have the 'problem' go away regardless of collateral damage.
> >> >
> >> >.........and where exactly do you get this info? Seems to me that if
> >> >your
> >> >assumption was right, North Korea wopuld be a parking lot right about
> > now.
> >> >We have developed $250,000.00 cannon shells that can be shot out of a
> >> >howitzer from 25 miles away and hit within 10' of a scumbag so that we
> > only
> >> >kill his human shields in the immediate vicinity. I'm finding it
harder
> >> and
> >> >harder to justify spending this kind of money on people who haven't
got
> >> the
> >> >common sense to take these people out themselves (and it's very
> > disturbing
> >> >to me that I feel this way......but I'm beginning to).
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:450d3909$1@linux...
> >> >>
> >> >> Don't confuse seeking peace with not having resolve to kill and
> > obliterate
> >> >> dangerous groups of people. I was just always impressed with
> > Kissinger's
> >> >> dialog. He struck me as someone who really really wanted peace and
> > knew
> >> >> clearly the horrific consequences of not achieving it.
> >> >>
> >> >> There seem to be far too many people that just want to push a button
> > and
> >> >> have the 'problem' go away regardless of collateral damage.
> >> >>
> >> >> So, WHO today has this kind of diplomatic ability? I don't see
anyone
> >> who
> >> >> clearly speaks in an effective measured, peace seeking role. I don't
> > know
> >> >> anyone who seems to have the cool head that I percieve Kissinger
had.
> >> >Also,
> >> >> I'm not a history buff so I don't know everything about Kissinger
but
> >> he
> >> >> always struck me as the ultimate diplomat.
> >> >>
> >> >> John
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>
>So who would you consider to be equal to or better than Kissinger in today's
world?
John
"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>Cron,
>
>I think this has less to do with Bush and Iraq and more to do with finding
a
>time/place/excuse to wage this jihad. Iraq has provided all three, but I
>think it would be happening elsewhere and if not now...............soon.
>
>;o)
>
>
>"justcron" <parisnews@hydrorecords.com> wrote in message
>news:450da43b@linux...
>> Interesting Deej and insightful.
>>
>> There are so many issues involved, but one of the main topics as it
>applies
>> to the current situation is has Bush's policies and actions increased
or
>> decreased that islamic fundamentalist support? It seems to be growing
>like
>> wildfire whereas it used to be embers.
>>
>> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
>> news:450da2d8@linux...
>> > But you stated that there seemed to be far to many people who were ready
>> > to
>> > push a button.....etc. I disagree.
>> >
>> > I think we've got plenty of diplomats in this administration.. They
have
>> > to
>> > have something other than an ideological brick wall or a weasel to
>> > negotiate
>> > with though. What good did *diplomacy* with the Koreans or Arafat. To
>> > dispatch envoys to discuss international affiars and foriegn policy
with
>> > terrorists and Nazi maniacs like the Iranian prime minister legitimizes
>> > them
>> > and their tactics.
>> > http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=54 26
>> >
>> > Back around 1970 when I was studing political science, one of the the
>> > required courses of study was international government and politics.
>This
>> > book was part of the required curriculum:
>> > http://www.columbia.edu/cu/cup/catalog/data/071030/071030673 3.HTM
>> >
>> > It was of particular interest to me because I had a job lined up in
the
>> > Middle East with a company out of New Orleans named McDermott
>> > International
>> > to work in Saudi Arabia and the Persian Gulf. It was a great
>job.....stay
>> > 18
>> > months and bring home an incredible amount of money tax free, but it
was
>> > considered dangerous duty over there, even then. The 1973 arab/israeli
>war
>> > ended up blowing my whole plan out of the water because the company
had
>to
>> > reshuffle their experienced employees........but anyway........I read
>the
>> > book and quite a few others dealing with the middle east with great
>> > interest. Also I ha\d a frend who was an architecture student who was
an
>> > Iraqi American and we often talked about middle east affairs.......and
>> > still
>> > do.
>> >
>> > Anyway.......this part of the world has interested me for a long time
so
>> > fast forward to right after 911 but before the invasion of Iraq. I ran
>> > across this article which pretty much is spot on IMO about the
>historical
>> > situation as has existed for many years
>> > http://www.fareedzakaria.com/ARTICLES/newsweek/101501_why.ht ml
>> >
>> > ...................and the most tragic part of it is the last paragraph
>> > wherein the author states:
>> >
>> > It sounds like a daunting challenge, but there are many good signs.
Al
>> > Qaeda
>> > is not more powerful than the combined force of many determined
>> > governments.
>> > The world is indeed uniting around American leadership, and perhaps
we
>> > will
>> > see the emergence, for a while, of a new global community and consensus,
>> > which could bring progress in many other areas of international life.
>> > Perhaps most important, Islamic fundamentalism still does not speak
to
>the
>> > majority of the Muslim people. In Pakistan, fundamentalist parties have
>> > yet
>> > to get more than 10 percent of the vote. In Iran, having experienced
the
>> > brutal puritanism of the mullahs, people are yearning for normalcy.
In
>> > Egypt, for all the repression, the fundamentalists are a potent force
>but
>> > so
>> > far not dominant. If the West can help Islam enter modernity in dignity
>> > and
>> > peace, it will have done more than achieved security. It will have
>changed
>> > the world.
>> >
>> > I have no reason not to believe (other than the rantings of the
>> > autohateBush
>> > lunatic fringe community who want to politicize everything) that during
>> > this
>> > period, had we possessed an intelligence service that could have warned
>> > the
>> > administration about the duplicity of those in the global community
who
>> > were
>> > rearming Sadaam Hussein at the expense of the Iraqi people using the
UN
>> > Oil-For-Food program as their cover and the realities of the mountanous
>> > stockpiles of munitions that have been converted to IED's and most
>likely
>> > the destinations oin Syria and elsewhere where Sadaam was moving his
>WMD's
>> > (I still think we haven't heard the last of this issue), we would have
>> > done
>> > things differently. Instead we got a "legacy" intelligence service
that
>> > was
>> > horribly flawed. What we have discovered is that we had far more enemies
>> > during the Clintin administration than anyone knew. Y
>> >
>> > This is the intelligence service that bush inherited. You may or may
not
>> > think these sources credeible, but I think that historical reality has
>> > proved them top be correct:
>> > http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040414-124718-2114r.htm
>> > http://www.nationalreview.com/nr_comment/nr_comment042903.as p
>> > http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-07-24-intel-sid e_x.htm
>> > http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/535793/posts (this one is
>> > especially disturbing)
>> >
>> > Now what does this have to do with diplomacy? You have to have good
>> > information in order to conduct diplomatic negotiations. Yeah, Rice
>could
>> > go
>> > out there and negotiate with terrorists and the Korean lunatic. Clinton
>> > tried it for 8 years. At some point you have to learn from mistakes
of
>the
>> > past.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > "John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:450d60c8$1@linux...
>> >>
>> >> Just to be clear, my question is "Who are the diplomats of today".
>> >>
>> >> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>> >> >>There seem to be far too many people that just want to push a button
>> >> >>and
>> >> >>have the 'problem' go away regardless of collateral damage.
>> >> >
>> >> >.........and where exactly do you get this info? Seems to me that
if
>> >> >your
>> >> >assumption was right, North Korea wopuld be a parking lot right about
>> > now.
>> >> >We have developed $250,000.00 cannon shells that can be shot out of
a
>> >> >howitzer from 25 miles away and hit within 10' of a scumbag so that
we
>> > only
>> >> >kill his human shields in the immediate vicinity. I'm finding it
>harder
>> >> and
>> >> >harder to justify spending this kind of money on people who haven't
>got
>> >> the
>> >> >common sense to take these people out themselves (and it's very
>> > disturbing
>> >> >to me that I feel this way......but I'm beginning to).
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:450d3909$1@linux...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Don't confuse seeking peace with not having resolve to kill and
>> > obliterate
>> >> >> dangerous groups of people. I was just always impressed with
>> > Kissinger's
>> >> >> dialog. He struck me as someone who really really wanted peace
and
>> > knew
>> >> >> clearly the horrific consequences of not achieving it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> There seem to be far too many people that just want to push a button
>> > and
>> >> >> have the 'problem' go away regardless of collateral damage.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> So, WHO today has this kind of diplomatic ability? I don't see
>anyone
>> >> who
>> >> >> clearly speaks in an effective measured, peace seeking role. I don't
>> > know
>> >> >> anyone who seems to have the cool head that I percieve Kissinger
>had.
>> >> >Also,
>> >> >> I'm not a history buff so I don't know everything about Kissinger
>but
>> >> he
>> >> >> always struck me as the ultimate diplomat.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> John
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>Hi Dedric,
No, you didn't say I had to support Bush to not support terrorists . . .
but that attitude is still out there, unfortunately, and some of the
responses to your original post reminded me of that. My initial response to
you was in complete agreement.
And I don't really disagree with anything you've said here except that I
don't think relativism is quite the threat you seem to see it as. Most
people don't take relativism to the extreme of justifying suicide bombers.
Also, rejecting ethnocentrism doesn't make one a cultural relativist,
speaking for myself. There is a middle ground there.
As for the sarcasm, sorry about that, but it helps me to diffuse my
anger about these issues.
Near the end of this post, you said, "But, eventually we will lose, and
lose badly, simply because we as a nation don't have an ideology that is
stronger, more grounded, and more committed than theirs." I think we do
have a stronger, more grounded, more committed ideology than theirs. It
involves concepts like unity, integrity, honesty, democracy, and, as we all
recited with hands on hearts in grade school, with liberty and justice for
all. These are sky high ideals that our country is found upon, and the
reason I get so angry and sarcastic is because it upsets me to see us drift
steadily away from those ideals.
Sarah
"Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote in message
news:C132C3AB.35B0%dterry@keyofd.net...
> Hi Sarah,
>
> No one said you had to support Bush to not support terrorists, at least I
> never did. It really doesn't help your argument to use sarcasm though.
>
> I am referring to the ideology that has been growing in our country for
> many
> years - way before Bush 1, or Reagan for that matter. It has nothing to
> do
> with Bush 2. I was talking about the world's view of Islam in light of
> the
> Pope's comments, so the fact that he keeps coming up as the response,
> regardless of the original topic, just shows that we would rather blame
> Bush
> than address what is happening in the world and in our country's
> ideology -
> the people, not the government. The government has nothing to do with the
> belief systems and relativism that is pervading our culture, media,
> schools,
> streets, conversations - it's just a side topic for Monday morning water
> cooler talk by pale comparison - one that ebbs and flows in the tide of
> that
> ideology of the people.
>
> After Bush leaves office I believe we will see the greatest surge of
> relativistic and chaotic thinking in our history as a reaction of
> counter-instinct. It isn't about supporting Bush, and I'm not "blaming"
> the
> coming reaction on a lack of support for Bush - I couldn't care less if
> you
> like him - it's been coming regardless. I don't hate Bush, but I don't
> like
> him as a President either. I support our country though and want to see
> it
> become a great and revered nation solely for it's commitment to caring
> about
> and aiding people that can't help themselves, but that is probably wishful
> thinking.
>
> I can see past the political fears and ideology to understand that we were
> also in serious danger during Reagan's years (Russia), Bush 1, and Clinton
> too as terrorism worked on plans for 9/11 and more that we've since
> averted,
> simply because the FBI, CIA and other police are on the vigil more than
> before. We created the political climate we live with administration
> after
> administration - one of deals and compromise to keep the right people
> happy.
> It's better than many alternatives, but in way it just propagates a lack
> of
> significant positive change in exchange for subtly slow moral decay, since
> it in and of itself, and our competitive commerce driven society promotes
> a
> lack of integrity. Until people (everyone, not just leaders) are willing
> to
> risk money, careers, notoriety and stability to stand for something of
> more
> substance than sustaining the nice house, car and happy-go-lucky lifestyle
> we enjoy here, we will continue to cower to the whims of politics and the
> special interest flavor of the day instead.
>
> I do agree that there is more than one way to fight terrorism - yes, 3, 4
> 5,
> maybe 100,000,000. Waging "war" on Islam isn't the answer. But assuming
> this terror war is simply another political disagreement that can be
> diplomatically solved with embargos and slaps on the wrist by the UN is
> also
> overly optimistic - if only, really I wish it were. I'm not saying you
> think
> it is - just making a point.
>
> Truthfully, I don't believe we will ever "win" the war on terror, or
> rather
> the ideology that is behind it. We will just delay it for a few years
> here
> and there over the next 10, 20, maybe more if we are lucky. But,
> eventually
> we will lose, and lose badly, simply because we as a nation don't have an
> ideology that is stronger, more grounded, and more committed than theirs.
>
> Then again, we really are fighting the wrong war, and I'm not referring to
> Iraq.
>
> Regards,
> DedricI would love a web site or tv show that listed who our diplomats meet with
and what they report back and if any meetings with the "enemies" are public.
"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>
>So who would you consider to be equal to or better than Kissinger in today's
>world?
>
>John
>
>"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>>Cron,
>>
>>I think this has less to do with Bush and Iraq and more to do with finding
>a
>>time/place/excuse to wage this jihad. Iraq has provided all three, but
I
>>think it would be happening elsewhere and if not now...............soon.
>>
>>;o)
>>
>>
>>"justcron" <parisnews@hydrorecords.com> wrote in message
>>news:450da43b@linux...
>>> Interesting Deej and insightful.
>>>
>>> There are so many issues involved, but one of the main topics as it
>>applies
>>> to the current situation is has Bush's policies and actions increased
>or
>>> decreased that islamic fundamentalist support? It seems to be growing
>>like
>>> wildfire whereas it used to be embers.
>>>
>>> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
>>> news:450da2d8@linux...
>>> > But you stated that there seemed to be far to many people who were
ready
>>> > to
>>> > push a button.....etc. I disagree.
>>> >
>>> > I think we've got plenty of diplomats in this administration.. They
>have
>>> > to
>>> > have something other than an ideological brick wall or a weasel to
>>> > negotiate
>>> > with though. What good did *diplomacy* with the Koreans or Arafat.
To
>>> > dispatch envoys to discuss international affiars and foriegn policy
>with
>>> > terrorists and Nazi maniacs like the Iranian prime minister legitimizes
>>> > them
>>> > and their tactics.
>>> > http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=54 26
>>> >
>>> > Back around 1970 when I was studing political science, one of the the
>>> > required courses of study was international government and politics.
>>This
>>> > book was part of the required curriculum:
>>> > http://www.columbia.edu/cu/cup/catalog/data/071030/071030673 3.HTM
>>> >
>>> > It was of particular interest to me because I had a job lined up in
>the
>>> > Middle East with a company out of New Orleans named McDermott
>>> > International
>>> > to work in Saudi Arabia and the Persian Gulf. It was a great
>>job.....stay
>>> > 18
>>> > months and bring home an incredible amount of money tax free, but it
>was
>>> > considered dangerous duty over there, even then. The 1973 arab/israeli
>>war
>>> > ended up blowing my whole plan out of the water because the company
>had
>>to
>>> > reshuffle their experienced employees........but anyway........I read
>>the
>>> > book and quite a few others dealing with the middle east with great
>>> > interest. Also I ha\d a frend who was an architecture student who was
>an
>>> > Iraqi American and we often talked about middle east affairs.......and
>>> > still
>>> > do.
>>> >
>>> > Anyway.......this part of the world has interested me for a long time
>so
>>> > fast forward to right after 911 but before the invasion of Iraq. I
ran
>>> > across this article which pretty much is spot on IMO about the
>>historical
>>> > situation as has existed for many years
>>> > http://www.fareedzakaria.com/ARTICLES/newsweek/101501_why.ht ml
>>> >
>>> > ...................and the most tragic part of it is the last paragraph
>>> > wherein the author states:
>>> >
>>> > It sounds like a daunting challenge, but there are many good signs.
>Al
>>> > Qaeda
>>> > is not more powerful than the combined force of many determined
>>> > governments.
>>> > The world is indeed uniting around American leadership, and perhaps
>we
>>> > will
>>> > see the emergence, for a while, of a new global community and consensus,
>>> > which could bring progress in many other areas of international life.
>>> > Perhaps most important, Islamic fundamentalism still does not speak
>to
>>the
>>> > majority of the Muslim people. In Pakistan, fundamentalist parties
have
>>> > yet
>>> > to get more than 10 percent of the vote. In Iran, having experienced
>the
>>> > brutal puritanism of the mullahs, people are yearning for normalcy.
>In
>>> > Egypt, for all the repression, the fundamentalists are a potent force
>>but
>>> > so
>>> > far not dominant. If the West can help Islam enter modernity in dignity
>>> > and
>>> > peace, it will have done more than achieved security. It will have
>>changed
>>> > the world.
>>> >
>>> > I have no reason not to believe (other than the rantings of the
>>> > autohateBush
>>> > lunatic fringe community who want to politicize everything) that during
>>> > this
>>> > period, had we possessed an intelligence service that could have warned
>>> > the
>>> > administration about the duplicity of those in the global community
>who
>>> > were
>>> > rearming Sadaam Hussein at the expense of the Iraqi people using the
>UN
>>> > Oil-For-Food program as their cover and the realities of the mountanous
>>> > stockpiles of munitions that have been converted to IED's and most
>>likely
>>> > the destinations oin Syria and elsewhere where Sadaam was moving his
>>WMD's
>>> > (I still think we haven't heard the last of this issue), we would have
>>> > done
>>> > things differently. Instead we got a "legacy" intelligence service
>that
>>> > was
>>> > horribly flawed. What we have discovered is that we had far more enemies
>>> > during the Clintin administration than anyone knew. Y
>>> >
>>> > This is the intelligence service that bush inherited. You may or may
>not
>>> > think these sources credeible, but I think that historical reality
has
>>> > proved them top be correct:
>>> > http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040414-124718-2114r.htm
>>> > http://www.nationalreview.com/nr_comment/nr_comment042903.as p
>>> > http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-07-24-intel-sid e_x.htm
>>> > http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/535793/posts (this one is
>>> > especially disturbing)
>>> >
>>> > Now what does this have to do with diplomacy? You have to have good
>>> > information in order to conduct diplomatic negotiations. Yeah, Rice
>>could
>>> > go
>>> > out there and negotiate with terrorists and the Korean lunatic. Clinton
>>> > tried it for 8 years. At some point you have to learn from mistakes
>of
>>the
>>> > past.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > "John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:450d60c8$1@linux...
>>> >>
>>> >> Just to be clear, my question is "Who are the diplomats of today".
>>> >>
>>> >> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>>> >> >>There seem to be far too many people that just want to push a button
>>> >> >>and
>>> >> >>have the 'problem' go away regardless of collateral damage.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >.........and where exactly do you get this info? Seems to me that
>if
>>> >> >your
>>> >> >assumption was right, North Korea wopuld be a parking lot right about
>>> > now.
>>> >> >We have developed $250,000.00 cannon shells that can be shot out
of
>a
>>> >> >howitzer from 25 miles away and hit within 10' of a scumbag so that
>we
>>> > only
>>> >> >kill his human shields in the immediate vicinity. I'm finding it
>>harder
>>> >> and
>>> >> >harder to justify spending this kind of money on people who haven't
>>got
>>> >> the
>>> >> >common sense to take these people out themselves (and it's very
>>> > disturbing
>>> >> >to me that I feel this way......but I'm beginning to).
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:450d3909$1@linux...
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Don't confuse seeking peace with not having resolve to kill and
>>> > obliterate
>>> >> >> dangerous groups of people. I was just always impressed with
>>> > Kissinger's
>>> >> >> dialog. He struck me as someone who really really wanted peace
>and
>>> > knew
>>> >> >> clearly the horrific consequences of not achieving it.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> There seem to be far too many people that just want to push a button
>>> > and
>>> >> >> have the 'problem' go away regardless of co
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Terrorist plot foiled [message #71234 is a reply to message #71233] |
Mon, 14 August 2006 21:18 |
DC
Messages: 722
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am I on the wrong track here?
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in
> >message
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:4509da19@linux...
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Repeat after me:
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IRQ!! IRQ!! IRQ!!
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This sounds exactly like the EDS card is sharing and
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interrupt
> >> > >>>>>>>>> with
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> the
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AGP
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slot.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Uptown Jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote in
> >message
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:45098f86$1@linux...
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi-ho.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am still having trouble with my Paris rig. In an
> >effort
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> simplify
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I only have one card installed, with an MEC
attached,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> internal
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> clocking.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Basically, my problems are down to two:
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1.The "now-line" freezes, or more actually begins
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuttering in
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> extremely
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slow-motion, almost glacial. I can still change
> >windows,
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I
> >> > >>>>>>>>> am
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> able
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> save and close, then re-open Paris with success.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2.On starting Paris, I get an error message: "I/O
> >modules
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> used
> >> > >>>>>>>>> in
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> this
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> patch
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> setting not avaiable in this configuration of Paris.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Resulting
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> audio
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> may
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be different than when saved." This will pop up 2 or
> 4
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> times,
> >> > >>>>>>>>> and
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> then
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I push "play" no audio is heard. Then I close,
reopen,
> >> and
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> things
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a while.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have made some tweaks to the configuration with
some
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> success.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> The
> >> > &
|
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|
| Re: Terrorist plot foiled...Christians has Lost focus [message #71235 is a reply to message #71223] |
Mon, 14 August 2006 21:47 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> errors
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are happening less and less, but they still pop up.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anybody?
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jimmy
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>Will the new ones serve the same basic purpose? All-around favorite "shitty
speaker approximators?
Jimmy
"Rich Lamanna" <richard.lamanna@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:450bdbb7@linux...
> Jimmy, something about the source of the wood pulp used in the woofer cone
> is no longer available. Here's the full article. The MSP/SW10 series is
> supposed to replace them.
>
>
http://www.prorec.com/prorec/pressrel.nsf/articles/5EBE27AC8 7BF68F0862569FA0
066E408
>
> Rich
>
> --
> 'Any 20 year-old who isn't a liberal doesn't have a heart,
> and any 40 year-old who isn't a conservative doesn't have a brain.'
>
> - Winston Churchill
>
> "Uptown Jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:450b5efb@linux...
> > Why don't they still make them?
> >
> > Dammit!
> >
> > Jimmy
> >
> >
> > "Mike Audet" <mike@....> wrote in message news:450a8f1f$1@linux...
> > >
> > > I just finished a rush session. They needed 10 copies of the CD, and
I
> > > suggested
> > > that we check it out in the car before commiting to 10 copies. The
> NS10s
> > > were bang on. No tweaking needed. Reverb levels, vocal levels, eq,
> > > everything
> > > - bang on - and bang on despite the car system sounding very
different.
> > > These
> > > things are worth their weight in gold.
> > >
> > > I was also able to fix a problem in the accoustic guitar track that
they
> > > brought with them. I could hear the problem at 1k immediately.
Didn't
> > > even
> > > need to sweep the eq.
> > >
> > > These represent the best money I have ever spent.
> > >
> > > Cheers!
> > >
> > > Mike
> >
> >
>
>The real irony here is that the head of the Catholic Church would dare to
criticize anybody, ever, for spreading religion with violence and brutality.
That is some serious irony right there.
Jimmy
"Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote in message
news:C131DB49.356D%dterry@keyofd.net...
> I don't want to start another religious or political thread - I just found
> this ironic, at best:
>
> The Pope is under fire from the Islamic community because he quoted a
> Byzantine emperor's ancient writings in a talk rejecting religious
> motivation for violence. The emperor, in obscure writings hundreds of
year
> old, characterized the teachings of Muhammad (Isl
|
|
|
|
| Re: Terrorist plot foiled [message #71237 is a reply to message #71224] |
Mon, 14 August 2006 22:06 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
ircles the Sun. And
doesn't
> reacting with violence just prove the Emperor's assessment, and then some?
> Yet the press and the Islamic world seem to have missed the irony of this
> response, or at least are reluctant to admit it.
>
> The Pope's comment is getting more press than the fact that violence was
> actually perpetrated when the churches were torched. To note, this was a
> response, not a crime.
>
> Why are we (the world culture) so quick to defend Islam and work so hard
to
> avoid offending Muslims, regardless of the cost - even if it means
rewriting
> the definitions of peace and violence? Just something to think about....
>
> Ignorance isn't bliss, it's the last step one takes before falling off of
a
> cliff.
>
> Back to music...
> Dedric
>Good observations DC.
And if this newsgroup were put in charge of the country:
1. We would disagree on whether the White House comps would be PCs or Macs.
2. Cabinet meetings would refer to Marshall, Ampeg, etc.
3. Lobbying would refer to the noon jam session in the lobby
4. Bipartisan would mean we decided on both PC and Mac.
5. ProTools would mysteriously fall out of favor
(what? no, we would never do that...)
;-)
Dedric
On 9/17/06 4:32 PM, in article 450dccf6$1@linux, "DC"
<dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
> As long as we all have been yakking on these subjects, three
> things have happened.
>
> 1. No one switched sides
>
> 2. Everyone learned something
>
> 3. Almost all of us have gotten much more skilled in being
> nice to each other despite our differences.
>
>
> I don't know about the rest of you, but I am going to declare
> victory and have a beer...
>
> DC
>I don’t need chorus sounds often but there is group buy of EastWest/Quantum
Leap Symphonic Choirs going on this month that is very tempting.
Very cool software that can “sing” the words you enter.
It looks like there is a good chance it will reach its potential low price
of 398 (995 list) so this is a good opportunity to get it at discount, if
you need it.
The on-line videos are cool to check out even if you are not interested,
just to see the state of the technology.
http://www.soundsonline.com/EastWest-Quantum-Leap-Symphonic- Choirs-Group-Buy-pr-EW-165G.html
GeneThe idea that one needs to believe in a god in order to have a strong morals
is absurd, I think.
Jimmy
"Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote in message
news:C1325038.358D%dterry@keyofd.net...
> Gene -
>
> You probably didn't realize it (so no offense), but your response pretty
> much confirms my assertion that the tendency of our country and even the
> world society, is to place blame for religious conflict, violence and
> religiously motivated terrorism anywhere but with the single largest
> growing, and currently most violent religion in the world. We ignore car
> bombings, suicide bombers, torched churches, thousands of tortured and
> murdered, exiled and ostracized people in favor of blaming the
> administration for anything and everything, as if Bush made the Pope quote
a
> Byzantine emperor by going to war in Iraq.
>
> Islam isn't the passive, peaceful, non-threatening, all-accepting religion
> our country seems to blindly want to believe. Some western Muslims might
> be, but just ask anyone who tried to believe in anything else in many of
the
> conservative Islamic countries of the world. I know, have talked to, and
> have heard missionaries to these countries speak - it's a different world
> from the free discussions and widely varying opinions we have here.
People
> die for converting to anything else, or their families do. At best, their
> families disown them and they sneak out of the country under threat of
> death. In fact it's the exact opposite of the "freedom" our country
> continually pushes the limits of. Odd that we would turn on our own
country
> in favor of supporting, or at least turning a blind eye to this kind of
> ideology, somehow believing that is the more politically correct thing to
> do.
>
> The problem I see isn't religion, but a lack of faith in God, and hence
any
> sense of direction and moral guidance. God gives us the choice to believe
> or not. Based on documents of their activities - in the name of Allah the
> 9/11 terrorists pretty much broke every one of the 10 commandments in 24
> hours. That may seem a trivial or even silly fact, but there is a sad,
and
> frightening irony there. Faith in God isn't what one should fear - it's
> believing in anything that conveniently appeases one's personal whims that
> is the true danger.... the terrorists proved that in one day. That also
> includes believing in nothing.
>
> As Blaise Pascal once said (paraphrased): if one believes in God and is
> wrong, at worst one has lived a good live and had some false hope as a
sense
> of comfort along the way; if one doesn't believe and is wrong, then at
> best, all is lost for eternity. This is the paradox that we should be
> considering, and yet the most fear-inducing thought is that the President
> might believe in something other than nothing. Is no belief really better
> than belief? What reference point for right and wrong accompanies
disbelief
> in anything higher than one's own decisions? What reference point for
> respect for other people's beliefs accompanies a lack of belief in any
> guideline for living life and having respect and compassion for others?
>
> It isn't the administration's fault that the Pope quoted a guy Islam
doesn't
> like just because he called like he saw it - something we do on this forum
> every single day, ironically. It also isn't Christianity's intent to take
> over the world, or the government. Far from it. The only goal is to give
> people a chance to decide. Yet, those that want to decide to not believe
> would rather take that right away and remove Christianity from public
view.
> The only way to force someone to remove their belief from public in a
> country that promotes the freedom to believe as one wishes, is to outlaw
it.
> Yet another paradox.
>
> Through our short sighted political glasses we want to see the world as a
> black and white, free-will, partisan vote where one's party always wins
and
> the decisions are always in our favor, but fail to see any validity in
> believing a God that gave us the very moral compass to maintain the
balance
> that kind of choice affords us. In essence we put our trust in the very
> thing we prove day in and day out to be one of the most fallible
> characteristics of humanity - political and relativistic ideology.
>
> I guess I ignored my own first comment....sorry about that.
>
> I should get back to mourning NI Battery 2's destruction of 10 hours of
work
> :-((....
>
> Regards,
> Dedric
>
> On 9/16/06 9:09 PM, in article 450cbc70$1@linux, "gene Lennon"
> <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
> >> I don't want to start another religious or political thread -...
> >
> >
> > These are frightening times. While the true neocons in the current
> > administration
> > have had a variety of political, financial and power-based reasons for
> > perusing
> > the war against Iraq, the president has had an even scarier motivation.
> >
> > Religion.
> >
> > If you missed it, this week Bush has announced the "Third Great
Awakening"
> > of the international religious struggle. This is a good thing as he sees
> > it and it has been partially brought on by the new fight against
terrorists
> > (Translation - Due to his good work in God's name). A war that he
depicts
> > as "a confrontation between good and evil."
> > In 2001 he used the word "crusade" and got into quite a bit of trouble
(as
> > has the Pope), but he seems to have the gloves off now.
> >
> > Can anyone imagine a worse direction for the world to be headed?
> >
> > Of course he also believes in the Rapture, so things could easily go
down
> > hill from here.
> >
> > More on the "Third Awakening":
> >
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09 /12/AR2006091201
59
> > 4_pf.html
> >
> > Gene
> >
>Thanks for the tip Gene - I've considered getting this library for a while -
might have to take advantage of the buy. Could have used it on a project
this summer, but the budget didn't justify it.
Dedric
On 9/17/06 6:50 PM, in article 450ded62$1@linux, "gene Lennon"
<glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote:
>
>
> I donÂ’t need chorus sounds often but there is group buy of EastWest/Quantum
> Leap Symphonic Choirs going on this month that is very tempting.
>
> Very cool software that can “sing” the words you enter.
> It looks like there is a good chance it will reach its potential low price
> of 398 (995 list) so this is a good opportunity to get it at discount, if
> you need it.
>
> The on-line videos are cool to check out even if you are not interested,
> just to see the state of the technology.
>
> http://www.soundsonline.com/EastWest-Quantum-Leap-Symphonic- Choirs-Group-Buy-p
> r-EW-165G.html
>
> Gene
>Is there some way to get Cooledit going if you only have one drive?
It seems to want, ideally, two other local drives apart from your main system
drive...
I'm trying to get it running on a machine with only one drive, but it won't
play ball...
Cheers,
Kim.So I played a multi-band club gig this afternoon with the GNX4 going
direct, balanced, to the PA and the tiny powered Galaxy monitor on a mic
stand pointed at my guitar and ears. I asked the sound guy if he liked
my "stack." (grin)
Turned out he's also a guitar player. He plays through an tube stack of
his own and he was obviously underwhelmed by my stage gear. Being
diplomatic, he said, "whatever works for you." But he didn't quite
disguise a bit of stack snobbery. He obviously had low expectations for
the rig.
Then we played our show. He had complete control, the guitar sounded
huge through the PA (and the violin, which I also route through the
GNX4, also sounded great). There were no stage volume issues. The band
was tight, and we had a fun show. Afterwards I asked again if he liked
my "stack."
He loved it. Said it sounded GREAT. Mind changed.
The next band had the requisite Marshall guitar amp, 4/12 cab and a
similarly sized bass rig. Aimed strategically at the back of each
player's knees and CRANKED. The sound guy had no chance to control
anything in the moderate-sized club, Their set was mush from the getgo.
Cheers,
-Jamie
http://www.JamieKrutz.com
Jamie K wrote:
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Terrorist plot foiled...Christians has Lost focus [message #71238 is a reply to message #71219] |
Mon, 14 August 2006 22:12 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I'm with you TCB, speaker cabinets pointed at the backs of a player's
> legs do no good for the player, the crowd or the sound engineer. All
> they do is wreck the show. What good is great tone without the ability
> to do a great mix out front?
>
> I use a small Galaxy Audio monitor on a mic stand, pointed at my ears
> and my guitar (so I can still get screaming guitar feedback if needed).
>
> Out front it's all in the hands and ears of the engineer. Great guitar
> tone via a direct balanced XLR send. Stackless on stage. Engineers love
> that.
>
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
>
> TCB wrote:
>> You know, I've always thought a 2x10 1x12 might be the greatest cab ever.
>> But I'd want control over how loud the 12 inch speaker got. Now that I
>> think
>> about it the greatest sound I _ever_ got was recording once when I
>> borrowed
>> a Budda 2x10 cab and played it with my 1x12 Top Hat. I always thought
>> this
>> was because it was a sorta Vox/Marshall combination but I wonder if
>> the speakers
>> had more to do with it than I realized? Interesting question.
>> The guys in the band I'm in get kind of frustrated with me because I'm a
>> complete 'backline nazi.' If I get my way, and I'll usually whine until I
>> do, everyone's amp is pointed more or less directly at their head. I put
>> a power soak on my 15 watt amp, crank it up, and tilt it against a
>> wall or
>> get it up in the air. That's my version of in ear monitors, push the amp
>> into your ear;-)
>> TCB
>>
>> "AA" <AA@nospam.net> wrote:
>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>> I know you've gotten lots of opinions, but I'll toss in two more.
>>>> For me,
>>>> live playing with a closed back 4x12 in a room much smaller than Giants
>>> Stadium
>>>> doesn't work well. The sound tends to 'beam out' in a very narrow
>>>> range,
>>>> usually directly at the guitarist's calves. So he turns up louder
>>>> and louder
>>>> until he can hear himself and then people near the stage are
>>>> hallucinating.
>>> Boy, as a sound man I agree wholeheartedly about this. That's why I
>>> elevate
>>> and tilt my cabs live... I usually fly direct emulated signal at the PA
>> and
>>> let them sweat the room. To be honest I use in ears about %99 of the
>>> time,
>>> and the cab is more for filling the hole in the center of the stage and
>> providing
>>> the right kind of vibration relationship to the guitar feedback....
>>> usually
>>> pointed right at me.
>>>> And not for a good reason. Second, I think 2x10 and 4x10 cabs sound
>>>> better
>>>> with 99% of the guitar/amp combinations out there. They lack some
>>>> low end,
>>>> which probably should be left for the bass in live situations
>>>> anyway, but
>>>> the entire midrange sounds way better to me usually.
>>> I'm still waiting for someone to make a hybrid 2x10/2x12 stereo cab.
>>> 10's
>>> sizzle and sing in the mids right, but they don't have the low end I
>>> desire.
>>>
>>>> I use a Top Hat combo that is basically a Vox AC-15 knockoff. Super
>>>> clean
>>>> is obviously not an option, but the single speaker sounds great.
>>>> However,
>>>> I tried it with a nice old 4x10 Fender cab it it was even nicer.
>>>
>>> All great info Thad, thanks for ringin' in man.
>>>
>>>> "Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>>>> I'm looking at picking up a 4x12 to club gig with. Anybody got
>>>>> experience
>>>> to
>>>>> share with me about these models??
>>>>> Is there 'really' a $1000 dollars worth of difference in tone from
>>>>> bottom
>>>> to
>>>>> top with them, is it mechanics (like say, casters and handles)?
>>>>> I will be driving it with a 60wpc tube amp with a tube preamp front
>>>>> end.
>>>> I
>>>>> want the elusive 'brown sound' distortion and super clear cleans...
>>>>> which
>>>>> the amp/preamp combo is certainly capable of giving me. It's the cabs
>> that
>>>>> suck on my current gear (2 unmatched 2x12's) - I wish to move to
>>>>> one stereo
>>>>> matched cab, and I'm not afraid to rewire it if that matters.
>>>>> Many thanks in advance!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.zzounds.com/item--MSHMG412A
>>>>> $450.00 $279.95
>>>>> Angled-front version.
>>>>> Power: 120 watts
>>>>> Impedance: 8 ohms
>>>>> Speakers: 4 x 12 in. Marshall/Celestion custom-designed speakers (30W
>> each)
>>>>> Dimensions (W x H x D): 26.4 x 26.4 x 14.0 in.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.zzounds.com/item--MSH1960A
>>>>> $1,150.00 $649.95
>>>>> Angled-front version.
>>>>> Black grille cloth
>>>>> White piping
>>>>> Black elephant grain vinyl
>>>>> Speaker: 4 x 12 in. G12T-75
>>>>> Power: 300 watt
>>>>> Impedance: 4 or 16 ohms mono/8 ohms stereo
>>>>> Dimensions: 760 x 830 x 360mm
>>>>> Weight: 36.4 kg
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.zzounds.com/item--MSH1960AX
>>>>> $1,500.00 $1,049.00
>>>>> Angled front
>>>>> Vintage-circa early 70's
>>>>> Checkered cloth
>>>>> White piping
>>>>> Medium size white logo
>>>>> Black Levant vinyl
>>>>> Gold beading on Cab
>>>>> Speakers: 4 Celestion G12 M-25w SPKR-00016
>>>>> Power: 100 watts
>>>>> Impedance: 16 ohm
>>>>> Dimensions: 760 x 830 x 360 mm
>>>>> Weight: 37.7 kg
>>>>> Cover: COVR-00022 optional
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.zzounds.com/item--MSH1960AHW
>>>>> $1,800.00 $1,200.00
>>>>> Loaded with Celestion G12H-30 re-issue speakers.
>>>>> To complement the 1959HW's visual and sonic majesty, Marshall
>>>>> offers the
>>>>> 1960AHW (angled) 4x12 cabinet. It boasts basket weave fret cloth,
>>>>> metal
>>>>> handles, "100" logos, and is loaded with Celestion's highly-acclaimed
>>
>>>>> G12H-30 re-issue speakers.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>Hey Jimmy,
No doubt one can be a good person without believing in God - there are tons
of great people with no faith, or very little. That in and of itself tells
me there must be a God so even non-believers would have a strong sense of
right and wrong on a societal and even global level.
To walk through some thoughts: with no God, or higher reference point, what
would be considered moral, or at least good? What would one use to decide
what is right and wrong?
Laws? Most would agree that we can't legislate morality now, so with no
basis for what morality is, why would we even bother with laws since
everyone would make their own choices anyway?
Intellect? That would simply depend on what one chose to accept as
"intelligent" thought, based completely on opinion.
Reasoning and Logic? Logic is determined by a hypothesis that has a proven
outcome in a given situation. Change the situation, and the reasoning or
logic behind the "right" or "wrong" could easily change.
Experience? What if one's experience is filled with hatred, abuse, anger
and violence, or worse? Then someone would have to decide whose experience
we would use as a reference point. There would be no guarantee that person
or persons had experiences that would be best for the good of the whole.
Survival instinct? If it were a reference point, then stealing, lying,
cheating and even killing would be perfectly justified as those can be means
of survival.
Why would right and wrong even exist? I would think that the differences
between societies' definitions of right and w
|
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|
|
| Re: Terrorist plot foiled [message #71239 is a reply to message #71233] |
Mon, 14 August 2006 23:04 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
rong, assuming societies even
existed, would be so drastic we would never have ventured into any form of
inter-cultural/inter-geographic interaction, much less relationships,
diplomacy, collaboration, trade, and open travel.
As long as "morals" are only relative to each individual, they aren't
absolute morals that would last longer than the time it takes to make the
choice. We would just have 6.5 billion opinions. There would only be an
ever changing perspective on what seems to "make sense" at the time, and
based on this premise, even "making sense" would vary from person to person,
day to day, minute to minute. In that case, our prisons would either be
filled with innocent people simply judged "wrong" at the time because their
choices didn't match the preferences of the majority; or we wouldn't have
prisons, or likely even organized societies.
But is the majority always right? How would we know if there were no
absolutes that supercede the majority in some form?
If there were no right and wrong, there would be no consequences of either,
or at least we wouldn't view the outcome as a good or bad consequence - it
would just be another event in time.
But by grace and as a gift of freedom, God gave us a choice, both in whether
to believe in Him and whether to make right or wrong decisions. With moral
absolutes (God's word) as a reference we have a way to evaluate drastically
differing situations on an equivalent basis; with consistency in reasoning
and compassion; by choice and instinct rather than puppetry. Even when we
choose to do wrong, He is willing to forgive us. Without that option to
choose, balanced by God's grace and forgiveness, there would be no power in
choosing to believe in Him. That's what makes God a personal and loving God
rather than a dictator or puppet master.
Odd as it may seem to anyone who doesn't believe, I can see God in the way
that 1) we as a group of intelligent people on this forum can discuss
completely opposing opinions and still care enough to consider insulting,
belittling, slandering and hating one another an intolerable concept; and 2)
in all likelihood agree that peace and compassion completely trump greed and
power in importance to life and survival togethe
|
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| Re: Terrorist plot foiled [message #71240 is a reply to message #71237] |
Tue, 15 August 2006 00:01 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
r on this planet.
Regards,
Dedric
On 9/17/06 7:12 PM, in article 450df091@linux, "Uptown Jimmy"
<johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> The idea that one needs to believe in a god in order to have a strong morals
> is absurd, I think.
>
> Jimmy
>
>
> "Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote in message
> news:C1325038.358D%dterry@keyofd.net...
>> Gene -
>>
>> You probably didn't realize it (so no offense), but your response pretty
>> much confirms my assertion that the tendency of our country and even the
>> world society, is to place blame for religious conflict, violence and
>> religiously motivated terrorism anywhere but with the single largest
>> growing, and currently most violent religion in the world. We ignore car
>> bombings, suicide bombers, torched churches, thousands of tortured and
>> murdered, exiled and ostracized people in favor of blaming the
>> administration for anything and everything, as if Bush made the Pope quote
> a
>> Byzantine emperor by going to war in Iraq.
>>
>> Islam isn't the passive, peaceful, non-threatening, all-accepting religion
>> our country seems to blindly want to believe. Some western Muslims might
>> be, but just ask anyone who tried to believe in anything else in many of
> the
>> conservative Islamic countries of the world. I know, have talked to, and
>> have heard missionaries to these countries speak - it's a different world
>> from the free discussions and widely varying opinions we have here.
> People
>> die for converting to anything else, or their families do. At best, their
>> families disown them and they sneak out of the country under threat of
>> death. In fact it's the exact opposite of the "freedom" our country
>> continually pushes the limits of. Odd that we would turn on our own
> country
>> in favor of supporting, or at least turning a blind eye to this kind of
>> ideology, somehow believing that is the more politically correct thing to
>> do.
>>
>> The problem I see isn't religion, but a lack of faith in God, and hence
> any
>> sense of direction and moral guidance. God gives us the choice to believe
>> or not. Based on documents of their activities - in the name of Allah the
>> 9/11 terrorists pretty much broke every one of the 10 commandments in 24
>> hours. That may seem a trivial or even silly fact, but there is a sad,
> and
>> frightening irony there. Faith in God isn't what one should fear - it's
>> believing in anything that conveniently appeases one's personal whims that
>> is the true danger.... the terrorists proved that in one day. That also
>> includes believing in nothing.
>>
>> As Blaise Pascal once said (paraphrased): if one believes in God and is
>> wrong, at worst one has lived a good live and had some false hope as a
> sense
>> of comfort along the way; if one doesn't believe and is wrong, then at
>> best, all is lost for eternity. This is the paradox that we should be
>> considering, and yet the most fear-inducing thought is that the President
>> might believe in something other than nothing. Is no belief really better
>> than belief? What reference point for right and wrong accompanies
> disbelief
>> in anything higher than one's own decisions? What reference point for
>> respect for other people's beliefs accompanies a lack of belief in any
>> guideline for living life and having respect and compassion for others?
>>
>> It isn't the administration's fault that the Pope quoted a guy Islam
> doesn't
>> like just because he called like he saw it - something we do on this forum
>> every single day, ironically. It also isn't Christianity's intent to take
>> over the world, or the government. Far from it. The only goal is to give
>> people a chance to decide. Yet, those that want to decide to not believe
>> would rather take that right away and remove Christianity from public
> view.
>> The only way to force someone to remove their belief from public in a
>> country that promotes the freedom to believe as one wishes, is to outlaw
> it.
>> Yet another paradox.
>>
>> Through our short sighted political glasses we want to see the world as a
>>
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| Re: Terrorist plot foiled...Christians has Lost focus [message #71241 is a reply to message #71235] |
Tue, 15 August 2006 00:14 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
black and white, free-will, partisan vote where one's party always wins
> and
>> the decisions are always in our favor, but fail to see any validity in
>> believing a God that gave us the very moral compass to maintain the
> balance
>> that kind of choice affords us. In essence we put our trust in the very
>> thing we prove day in and day out to be one of the most fallible
>> characteristics of humanity - political and relativistic ideology.
>>
>> I guess I ignored my own first comment....sorry about that.
>>
>> I should get back to mourning NI Battery 2's destruction of 10 hours of
> work
>> :-((....
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dedric
>>
>> On 9/16/06 9:09 PM, in article 450cbc70$1@linux, "gene Lennon"
>> <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>> I don't want to start another religious or political thread -...
>>>
>>>
>>> These are frightening times. While the true neocons in the current
>>> administration
>>> have had a variety of political, financial and power-based reasons for
>>> perusing
>>> the war against Iraq, the president has had an even scarier motivation.
>>>
>>> Religion.
>>>
>>> If you missed it, this week Bush has announced the "Third Great
> Awakening"
>>> of the international religious struggle. This is a good thing as he sees
>>> it and it has been partially brought on by the new fight against
> terrorists
>>> (Translation - Due to his good work in God's name). A war that he
> depicts
>>> as "a confrontation between good and evil."
>>> In 2001 he used the word "crusade" and got into quite a bit of trouble
> (as
>>> has the Pope), but he seems to have the gloves off now.
>>>
>>> Can anyone imagine a worse direction for the world to be headed?
>>>
>>> Of course he also believes in the Rapture, so things could easily go
> down
>>> hill from here.
>>>
>>> More on the "Third Awakening":
>>>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09 /12/AR2006091201
> 59
>>> 4_pf.html
>>>
>>> Gene
>>>
>>
>
>I have no desire to enter into
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| Re: Terrorist plot foiled [message #71242 is a reply to message #71239] |
Tue, 15 August 2006 00:47 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
a debate about gods and religion. I am not
interested in proving any given point, or in converting you to a state of
mind similar to my own.
Jimmy
"Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote in message
news:C1336A39.35DE%dterry@keyofd.net...
> Hey Jimmy,
>
> No doubt one can be a good person without believing in God - there are
tons
> of great people with no faith, or very little. That in and of itself
tells
> me there must be a God so even non-believers would have a strong sense of
> right and wrong on a societal and even global level.
>
> To walk through some thoughts: with no God, or higher reference point,
what
> would be considered moral, or at least good? What would one use to decide
> what is right and wrong?
>
> Laws? Most would agree that we can't legislate morality now, so with no
> basis for what morality is, why would we even bother with laws since
> everyone would make their own choices anyway?
>
> Intellect? That would simply depend on what one chose to accept as
> "intelligent" thought, based completely on opinion.
>
> Reasoning and Logic? Logic is determined by a hypothesis that has a
proven
> outcome in a given situation. Change the situation, and the reasoning or
> logic behind the "right" or "wrong" could easily change.
>
> Experience? What if one's experience is filled with hatred, abuse, anger
> and violence, or worse? Then someone would have to decide whose
experience
> we would use as a reference point. There would be no guarantee that
person
> or persons had experiences that would be best for the good of the whole.
>
> Survival instinct? If it were a reference point, then stealing, lying,
> cheating and even killing would be perfectly justified as those can be
means
> of survival.
>
> Why would right and wrong even exist? I would think that the differences
> between societies' definitions of right and wrong, assuming societies even
> existed, would be so drastic we would never have ventured into any form of
> inter-cultural/inter-geographic interaction, much less relationships,
> diplomacy, collaboration, trade, and open travel.
>
> As long as "morals" are only relative to each individual, they aren't
> absolute morals that would last longer than the time it takes to make the
> choice. We would just have 6.5 billion opinions. There would only be an
> ever changing perspective on what seems to "make sense" at the time, and
> based on this premise, even "making sense" would vary from person to
person,
> day to day, minute to minute. In that case, our prisons would either be
> filled with innocent people simply judged "wrong" at the time because
their
> choices didn't match the preferences of the majority; or we wouldn't have
> prisons, or likely even organized societies.
>
> But is the majority always right? How would we know if there were no
> absolutes that supercede the majority in some form?
>
> If there were no right and wrong, there would be no consequences of
either,
> or at least we wouldn't view the outcome as a good or bad consequence - it
> would just be another event in time.
>
> But by grace and as a gift of freedom, God gave us a choice, both in
whether
> to believe in Him and whether to make right or wrong decisions. With
moral
> absolutes (God's word) as a reference we have a way to evaluate
drastically
> differing situations on an equivalent basis; with consistency in reasoning
> and compassion; by choice and instinct rather than puppetry. Even when we
> choose to do wrong, He is willing to forgive us. Without that option to
> choose, balanced by God's grace and forgiveness, there would be no power
in
> choosing to believe in Him. That's what makes God a personal and loving
God
> rather than a dictator or puppet master.
>
> Odd as it may seem to anyone who doesn't believe, I can see God in the way
> that 1) we as a group of intelligent people on this forum can discuss
> completely opposing opinions and still care enough to consider insulting,
> belittling, slandering and hating one another an intolerable concept; and
2)
> in all likelihood agree that peace and compassion completely trump greed
and
> power in importance to life and survival together on this planet.
>
> Regards,
> Dedric
>
> On 9/17/06 7:12 PM, in article 450df091@linux, "Uptown Jimmy"
> <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > The idea that one needs to believe in a god in order to have a strong
morals
> > is absurd, I think.
> >
> > Jimmy
> >
> >
> > "Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote in message
> > news:C1325038.358D%dterry@keyofd.net...
> >> Gene -<
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| Re: Terrorist plot foiled [message #71243 is a reply to message #71234] |
Tue, 15 August 2006 01:03 |
Sarah
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
br />
> >>
> >> You probably didn't realize it (so no offense), but your response
pretty
> >> much confirms my assertion that the tendency of our country and even
the
> >> world society, is to place blame for religious conflict, violence and
> >> religiously motivated terrorism anywhere but with the single largest
> >> growing, and currently most violent religion in the world. We ignore
car
> >> bombings, suicide bombers, torched churches, thousands of tortured and
> >> murdered, exiled and ostracized people in favor of blaming the
> >> administration for anything and everything, as if Bush made the Pope
quote
> > a
> >> Byzantine emperor by going to war in Iraq.
> >>
> >> Islam isn't the passive, peaceful, non-threatening, all-accepting
religion
> >> our country seems to blindly want to believe. Some western Muslims
might
> >> be, but just ask anyone who tried to believe in anything else in many
of
> > the
> >> conservative Islamic countries of the world. I know, have talked to,
and
> >> have heard missionaries to these countries speak - it's a different
world
> >> from the free discussions and widely varying opinions we have here.
> > People
> >> die for converting to anything else, or their families do. At best,
their
> >> families disown them and they sneak out of the country under threat of
> >> death. In fact it's the exact opposite of the "freedom" our coun
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| Re: Terrorist plot foiled [message #71244 is a reply to message #71239] |
Tue, 15 August 2006 01:25 |
Sarah
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
try
> >> continually pushes the limits of. Odd that we would turn on our own
> > country
> >> in favor of supporting, or at least turning a blind eye to this kind of
> >> ideology, somehow believing that is the more politically correct thing
to
> >> do.
> >>
> >> The problem I see isn't religion, but a lack of faith in God, and hence
> > any
> >> sense of direction and moral guidance. God gives us the choice to
believe
> >> or not. Based on documents of their activities - in the name of Allah
the
> >> 9/11 terrorists pretty much broke every one of the 10 commandments in
24
> >> hours. That may seem a trivial or even silly fact, but there is a sad,
> > and
> >> frightening irony there. Faith in God isn't what one should fear -
it's
> >> believing in anything that conveniently appeases one's personal whims
that
> >> is the true danger.... the terrorists proved that in one day. That
also
> >> includes believing in nothing.
> >>
> >> As Blaise Pascal once said (paraphrased): if one believes in God and is
> >> wrong, at worst one has lived a good live and had some false hope as a
> > sense
> >> of comfort along the way; if one doesn't believe and is wrong, then at
> >> best, all is lost for eternity. This is the paradox that we should be
> >> considering, and yet the most fear-inducing thought is that the
President
> >> might believe in something other than nothing. Is no belief really
better
> >> than belief? What reference point for right and wrong accompanies
> > disbelief
> >> in anything higher than one's own decisions? What reference point for
> >> respect for other people's beliefs accompanies a lack of belief in any
> >> guideline for living life and having respect and compassion for others?
> >>
> >> It isn't the administration's fault that the Pope quoted a guy Islam
> > doesn't
> >> like just because he called like he saw it - something we do on this
forum
> >> every single day, ironically. It also isn't Christianity's intent to
take
> >> over the world, or the government. Far from it. The only goal is to
give
> >> people a chance to decide. Yet, those that want to decide to not
believe
> >> would rather take that right away and remove Christianity from public
> > view.
> >> The only way to force someone to remove their belief from public in a
> >> country that promotes the freedom to believe as one wishes, is to
outlaw
> > it.
> >> Yet another paradox.
> >>
> >> Through our short sighted political glasses we want to see the world as
a
> >> black and white, free-will, partisan vote where one's party always wins
> > and
> >> the decisions are always in our favor, but fail to see any validity in
> >> believing a God that gave us the very moral compass to maintain the
> > balance
> >> that kind of choice affords us. In essence we put our trust in the
very
> >> thing we prove day in and day out to be one of the most fallible
> >> characteristics of humanity - political and relativis
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| Re: Terrorist plot foiled [message #71246 is a reply to message #71244] |
Tue, 15 August 2006 04:27 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
:-((....
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Dedric
> >>
> >> On 9/16/06 9:09 PM, in article 450cbc70$1@linux, "gene Lennon"
> >> <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
> >>>> I don't want to start another religious or political thread -...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> These are frightening times. While the true neocons in the current
> >>> administration
> >>> have had a variety of political, financial and power-based reasons for
> >>> perusing
> >>> the war against Iraq, the president has had an even scarier
motivation.
> >>>
> >>> Religion.
> >>>
> >>> If you missed it, this week Bush has announced the "Third Great
> > Awakening"
> >>> of the international religious struggle. This is a good thing as he
sees
> >>> it and it has been partially brought on by the new fight against
> > terrorists
> >>> (Translation - Due to his good work in God's name). A war that he
> > depicts
> >>> as "a confrontation between good and evil."
> >>> In 2001 he used the word "crusade" and got into quite a bit of trouble
> > (as
> >>> has the Pope), but he seems to have the gloves off now.
> >>>
> >>> Can anyone imagine a worse direction for the world to be headed?
> >>>
> >>> Of course he also believes in the Rapture, so things could easily go
> > down
> >>> hill from here.
> >>>
> >>> More on the "Third Awakening":
> >>>
> >
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09 /12/AR2006091201
> > 59
> >>> 4_pf.html
> >>>
> >>> Gene
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
>Faith is complete trust or confidence in something or someone. Religious
faith is one form of faith but not the only definition of "faith."
For example I have faith that if I drop a guitar pick it will find its
way to the floor based on the gravitational attraction it has to the
planet. I have faith that I'll breathe my next breath, that I'll see
tomorrow morning. I have faith that other people are put together much
like I am and that I can therefore relate to other folks.
Without faith, people would not invest money. Without faith people would
not vote. Without faith people would not start businesses, hire other
people, raise children. Without faith people would not ride trains, fly
in planes or drive cars. Without faith no one would investigate
scientific questions about reality.
While you can clearly have faith without religion, you cannot have
religion without faith. Religion depends on faith that one or more
deities (good and sometimes bad) exist, that their associated stories
actually occurred, and often, that there is some sort of afterlife.
However, religious people believe in a variety of different deities.
Even those who believe in the same deity disagree, sometimes violently,
about the nature of their deity. Religions sometimes even disagree about
the nature of reality. If you want to base morality strictly on
religion, and you look around, you'll notice that religion can be a
somewhat chaotic basis unless...
Ah, you might say, I want to base morality on MY religion. Well, you
just dissed the majority of religions. No problem because THEY ARE
WRONG. And people who believe in thos
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