Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » OK...........now I'm gonna have to learn to program midi
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| Re: OK...........now I'm gonna have to learn to program midi [message #65433 is a reply to message #65424] |
Wed, 15 March 2006 21:52   |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
|
Senior Member |
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=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D
>>> >charset=3D3Diso-8859-1">
>>> ><META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3D3DGENERATOR>
>>> ><STYLE></STYLE>
>>> ></HEAD>
>>> ><BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff>
>>> ><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Rich,</FONT></DIV>
>>> ><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Isn't Dimitrios awesome? ! =3D
>>> >!</FONT></DIV>
>>> ><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
>>> ><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>> ><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>> ><BLOCKQUOTE=3D20
>>> >style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;
>=
>>>=3D
>>> >BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>>> > <DIV>"rich" <<A=3D20
>>> > =
>>>href=3D3D"mailto:studiodog_99@yahoo.com">studiodog_99@yahoo.com</A>> =3D
>>> >wrote in=3D20
>>> > message <A=3D20
>>> > =3D
>>> =
>>>>href=3D3D"news:443e9606$1@linux">news:443e9606$1@linux</A>...</DIV><BR>S=
>>>inc=3D
>>> >e your=3D20
>>> > LA setting is great (never thought to try what you did) - I =3D
>>> >thought<BR>I'd ask=3D20
>>> > if have any tricks for pop/rock Vox - GIT - Bass or? Thanks =3D
>>> >for<BR>all=3D20
>>> > your help!</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>>><HTML><HEAD>
>>><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>>>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>>><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR>
>>><STYLE></STYLE>
>>></HEAD>
>>><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You'd have to get a list of all her boy
>>=
>>>
>>>friends...</FONT></DIV>
>>><BLOCKQUOTE=20
>>>style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>>>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>>> <DIV>"zmora" <<A =
>>>href=3D"mailto:docent191@wp.pl">docent191@wp.pl</A>>=20
>>> wrote in message <A=20
>>> =
>>>href=3D"news:443ea88e$1@linux">news:443ea88e$1@linux</A>...</DIV><BR><BR>=
>>>Dimitrios=20
>>> ouer Hiro !!!!!!<BR>How many more sicrets are in=20
>>> Paris?<BR><BR>Zmora<BR><BR><BR><BR>"Tom Bruhl" <<A=20
>>> href=3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">Report message to a moderator
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| Re: OK...........now I'm gonna have to learn to program midi [message #65437 is a reply to message #65434] |
Wed, 15 March 2006 21:18 |
Tom Bruhl
Messages: 1368
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
he DA7 Digital
>>
>> 32 channel
>>
>>>>board, an 8 ch. mic pre, and 2 MECs. All locked in at 44.1
>>>>Steve
>>>>
>>>>"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>huh??? have another beer mate! ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>Well I'm assuming he's running the wordclock to both MEC's...?
>>>>>...isn't
>>>>>that OK?
>>>>>
>>>>>...or am I missing something?
>>>>>
>>>>>...I mean I've never used Wordclock, so I'm only speaking from what
>>>>>I've
>>>>>read here, but after reading 500 posts on the subject I kinda thought
>>
>> I
>>
>>>>had
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>the idea. ;o)
>>>>>
>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>Kim.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>David.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Kim wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Correct. If you're losing wordclock that will be fine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>>>Kim.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Not sure if it matters, but I don't really need to bnc the 2 mecs
>>>>>>>>together
>>>>>>>>do I? as I use a master word clock. The Aardsync. 4 word clock
>>>>>>>>sends,
>>>>>
>>>>>I
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>have
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>everything set to 44.1 And I use a Ramsa DA7 motorized fader digital
>>>>
>>>>console
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>for input, also set for 44.1
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Don't do as I say, do as I think! ;-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>David.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Kim wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>"Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>one connected to Card A (default master) and as Tom mentioned,
>>>>>>>>>>>one MEC connected to the *last EDS card*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>You should also note that "last EDS card" refers to "whichever
>>>>>>>>>>card
>>>>>
>>>>>has
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>last designation". It does not refer to anything to do with their
>>
>> physical
>>
>>>>>>>>>>location in your machine. Which one is last in a given machine
>>>>>>>>>>with
>>>>>
>>>>>a
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>given
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>OS is almost impossible to predict. You will have to experiment to
>>>>
>>>>work
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>it
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>out.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>But the interfaces need to be on card A and card C in your case,
>>
>> as
>>
>>>>>decided
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>by the Paris software.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>Kim.
>>>>>>>>
>>
I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html"Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>I wonder if this isn't somehow tied directly to the larger latency jump
>between the 1st and 2nd EDS cards?
>AA
I was wondering the same as I read it...
>
>
>"EK Sound" <askme@nospam.com> wrote in message news:443e8f0f$1@linux...
>> What I was refering to was feeding the WC from the external generator
to
>> your master MEC, then connecting a short BNC cable from the master MEC
to
>> the slave MEC (assuming both MEC's are connected to EDS cards in ONE
>> computer). The two MEC's will clock quite happily this way, and will
be
>> more stable (by my experience) than feeding them both directly from the
WC
>> gen. If you had 3+ MEC's, you would have to connect WC directly to each
>> unit and place the "Use house sync" line into the Paris config file.
>>
>> David.
>>
>> Steve Cox wrote:
>>> You can't. There is only one in and one out on each MEC. I need to have
>>> both
>>> ins tied up with the master word clock or I will have pops n' snaps
>>> galore.
>>> People hate hearing that in their headphones, and I really don't care
to
>>> spend the time snipping them out. With all the digital equipment, they
>>> all
>>> have to be controled by one clock source. What you are suggesting would
>>> be
>>> fine if I was ITB, but I am not. I have a motorized fader Digital
>>> console,
>>> Eight ch. mic pres, and two MECs. The whole idea behind having a master
>>> word
>>> clock is to stablize all your gear to 44.1 coming from one source.(my
>>> choice)Right??
>>> Steve not the art guy
>>>
>>> EK Sound <askme@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Seriously Steve... try looping from one MEC to the other.
>>>>
>>>>David.
>>>>
>>>>Steve Cox wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The reason I have the master word clock is because of the DA7 Digital
>>>
>>> 32 channel
>>>
>>>>>board, an 8 ch. mic pre, and 2 MECs. All locked in at 44.1
>>>>>Steve
>>>>>
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| Re: OK...........now I'm gonna have to learn to program midi [message #65438 is a reply to message #65433] |
Wed, 15 March 2006 21:27 |
Deej [1]
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
>>>>>"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>huh??? have another beer mate! ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Well I'm assuming he's running the wordclock to both MEC's...?
>>>>>>...isn't
>>>>>>that OK?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>...or am I missing something?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>...I mean I've never used Wordclock, so I'm only speaking from what
>>>>>>I've
>>>>>>read here, but after reading 500 posts on the subject I kinda thought
>>>
>>> I
>>>
>>>>>had
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>the idea. ;o)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>>Kim.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>David.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Kim wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Correct. If you're losing wordclock that will be fine.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>>>>Kim.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Not sure if it matters, but I don't really need to bnc the 2 mecs
>>>>>>>>>together
>>>>>>>>>do I? as I use a master word clock. The Aardsync. 4 word clock
>>>>>>>>>sends,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>have
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>everything set to 44.1 And I use a Ramsa DA7 motorized fader digital
>>>>>
>>>>>console
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>for input, also set for 44.1
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Don't do as I say, do as I think! ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>David.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Kim wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>"Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>one connected to Card A (default master) and as Tom mentioned,
>>>>>>>>>>>>one MEC connected to the *last EDS card*
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>You should also note that "last EDS card" refers to "whichever
>>>>>>>>>>>card
>>>>>>
>>>>>>has
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>last designation". It does not refer to anything to do with their
>>>
>>> physical
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>location in your machine. Which one is last in a given machine
>>>>>>>>>>>with
>>>>>>
>>>>>>a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>given
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>OS is almost impossible to predict. You will have to experiment
to
>>>>>
>>>>>work
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>it
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>out.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>But the interfaces need to be on card A and card C in your case,
>>>
>>> as
>>>
>>>>>>decided
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>by the Paris software.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>Kim.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>
>
>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
>Report message to a moderator
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| Re: OK...........now I'm gonna have to learn to program midi [message #65440 is a reply to message #65425] |
Thu, 16 March 2006 02:24 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
le (by my experience) than feeding them both directly from the
>WC
>>> gen. If you had 3+ MEC's, you would have to connect WC directly to each
>
>>> unit and place the "Use house sync" line into the Paris config file.
>>>
>>> David.
>>>
>>> Steve Cox wrote:
>>>> You can't. There is only one in and one out on each MEC. I need to have
>
>>>> both
>>>> ins tied up with the master word clock or I will have pops n' snaps
>>>> galore.
>>>> People hate hearing that in their headphones, and I really don't care
>to
>>>> spend the time snipping them out. With all the digital equipment, they
>
>>>> all
>>>> have to be controled by one clock source. What you are suggesting would
>
>>>> be
>>>> fine if I was ITB, but I am not. I have a motorized fader Digital
>>>> console,
>>>> Eight ch. mic pres, and two MECs. The whole idea behind having a master
>
>>>> word
>>>> clock is to stablize all your gear to 44.1 coming from one source.(my
>
>>>> choice)Right??
>>>> Steve not the art guy
>>>>
>>>> EK Sound <askme@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Seriously Steve... try looping from one MEC to the other.
>>>>>
>>>>>David.
>>>>>
>>>>>Steve Cox wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>The reason I have the master word clock is because of the DA7 Digital
>>>>
>>>> 32 channel
>>>>
>>>>>>board, an 8 ch. mic pre, and 2 MECs. All locked in at 44.1
>>>>>>Steve
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>huh??? have another beer mate! ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Well I'm assuming he's running the wordclock to both MEC's...?
>>>>>>>...isn't
>>>>>>>that OK?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>...or am I missing something?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>...I mean I've never used Wordclock, so I'm only speaking from what
>
>>>>>>>I've
>>>>>>>read here, but after reading 500 posts on the subject I kinda thought
>>>>
>>>> I
>>>>
>>>>>>had
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>the idea. ;o)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>>>Kim.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>David.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Kim wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Correct. If you're losing wordclock that will be fine.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>Kim.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Not sure if it matters, but I don't really need to bnc the 2 mecs
>
>>>>>>>>>>together
>>>>>>>>>>do I? as I use a master word clock. The Aardsync. 4 word clock
>>>>>>>>>>sends,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>have
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>everything set to 44.1 And I use a Ramsa DA7 motorized fader digital
>>>>>>
>>>>>>console
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>for input, also set for 44.1
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>"Dave(EK Sound)" <Report message to a moderator
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| Re: OK...........now I'm gonna have to learn to program midi [message #65441 is a reply to message #65438] |
Thu, 16 March 2006 02:28 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
ca" target="_blank">audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Don't do as I say, do as I think! ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>David.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Kim wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>"Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>one connected to Card A (default master) and as Tom mentioned,
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>one MEC connected to the *last EDS card*
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>You should also note that "last EDS card" refers to "whichever
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>card
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>has
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>last designation". It does not refer to anything to do with their
>>>>
>>>> physical
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>location in your machine. Which one is last in a given machine
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>with
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>given
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>OS is almost impossible to predict. You will have to experiment
>to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>work
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>it
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>out.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>But the interfaces need to be on card A and card C in your case,
>>>>
>>>> as
>>>>
>>>>>>>decided
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>by the Paris software.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>Kim.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
>>http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
>>
>>
>You'll probably read this and say "he's just not gettn' it" Buuuut.... Here's
the wire scheme and hopfully explain. My master word clock has four BNC outs.
One cable going to #one MEC's input, Two cable going to #2 MEC's input Three
cable going to the digital console, and Four cable going to the eight ch.
mic pre. Sooo with both ins on the MECs being taken up, I can't really run
a jumper from the out of MEC #1 to the in of MEC #3, because the in on MEC
#3 is already taken up by the master word clock. I don't want to daisy chain
the MECs. It defeats the whole reason for having 4 ports on a master wordclock.
But thanks for the thought.
EK Sound <askme@nospam.com> wrote:
>What I was refering to was feeding the WC from the external generator
>to your master MEC, then connecting a short BNC cable from the master
>MEC to the slave MEC (assuming both MEC's are connected to EDS cards
>in ONE computer). The two MEC's will clock quite happily this way,
>and will be more stable (by my experience) than feeding them both
>directly from the WC gen. If you had 3+ MEC's, you would have to
>connect WC directly to each unit and place the "Use house sync" line
>into the Paris config file.
>
>David.
>
>Steve Cox wrote:
>> You can't. There is only one in and one out on each MEC. I need to have
both
>> ins tied up with the master word clock or I will have pops n' snaps galore.
>> People hate hearing that in their headphones, and I really don't care
to
>> spend the time snipping them out. With all the digital equipment, they
all
>> have to be controled by one clock source. What you are suggesting would
be
>> fine if I was ITB, but I am not. I have a motorized fader Digital console,
>> Eight ch. mic pres, and two MECs. The whole idea behind having a master
word
>> clock is to stablize all your gear to 44.1 coming from one source.(my
choice)Right??
>> Steve not the art guy
>>
>> EK Sound <askme@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Seriously Steve... try looping from one MEC to the other.
>>>
>>>David.
>>>
>>>Steve Cox wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>The reason I have the master word clock is because of the DA7 Digital
>>
>> 32 channel
>>
>>>>board, an 8 ch. mic pre, and 2 MECs. All locked in at 44.1
>>>>Steve
>>>>
>>>>"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>huh??? have another beer mate! ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>Well I'm assuming he's running the wordclock to both MEC's...? ...isn't
>>>>>that OK?
>>>>>
>>>>>...or am I missing something?
>>>>>
>>>>>...I mean I'v
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| Re: OK...........now I'm gonna have to learn to program midi [message #65447 is a reply to message #65438] |
Thu, 16 March 2006 09:14 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
hat said, what you have running currently should work I think. He's simply
saying that daisy chaining will make the system more stable, but this will
vary between systems. Yours may be fine running wordclock to everything.
Cheers,
Kim.
"Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net> wrote:
>
>You'll probably read this and say "he's just not gettn' it" Buuuut.... Here's
>the wire scheme and hopfully explain. My master word clock has four BNC
outs.
>One cable going to #one MEC's input, Two cable going to #2 MEC's input Three
>cable going to the digital console, and Four cable going to the eight ch.
>mic pre. Sooo with both ins on the MECs being taken up, I can't really run
>a jumper from the out of MEC #1 to the in of MEC #3, because the in on MEC
>#3 is already taken up by the master word clock. I don't want to daisy chain
>the MECs. It defeats the whole reason for having 4 ports on a master wordclock.
>But thanks for the thought.
>
>EK Sound <askme@nospam.com> wrote:
>>What I was refering to was feeding the WC from the external generator
>>to your master MEC, then connecting a short BNC cable from the master
>>MEC to the slave MEC (assuming both MEC's are connected to EDS cards
>>in ONE computer). The two MEC's will clock quite happily this way,
>>and will be more stable (by my experience) than feeding them both
>>directly from the WC gen. If you had 3+ MEC's, you would have to
>>connect WC directly to each unit and place the "Use house sync" line
>>into the Paris config file.
>>
>>David.
>>
>>Steve Cox wrote:
>>> You can't. There is only one in and one out on each MEC. I need to have
>both
>>> ins tied up with the master word clock or I will have pops n' snaps galore.
>>> People hate hearing that in their headphones, and I really don't care
>to
>>> spend the time snipping them out. With all the digital equipment, they
>all
>>> have to be controled by one clock source. What you are suggesting would
>be
>>> fine if I was ITB, but I am not. I have a motorized fader Digital console,
>>> Eight ch. mic pres, and two MECs. The whole idea behind having a master
>word
>>> clock is to stablize all your gear to 44.1 coming from one source.(my
>choice)Right??
>>> Steve not the art guy
>>>
>>> EK Sound <askme@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Seriously Steve... try looping from one MEC to the other.
>>>>
>>>>David.
>>>>
>>>>Steve Cox wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The reason I have the master word clock is because of the DA7 Digital
>>>
>>> 32 channel
>>>
>>>>>board, an 8 ch. mic pre, and 2 MECs. All locked in at 44.1
>>>>>Steve
>>>>>
>>>>>"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>huh??? have another beer mate! ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Well I'm assuming he's running the wordclock to both MEC's...? ...isn't
>>>>>>that OK?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>...or am I missing something?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>...I mean I've never used Wordclock, so I'm only speaking from what
>I've
>>>>>>read here, but after reading 500 posts on the subject I kinda thought
>>>
>>> I
>>>
>>>>>had
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>the idea. ;o)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>>Kim.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>David.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Kim wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Correct. If you're losing wordclock that will be fine.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>>>>Kim.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Not sure if it matters, but I don't really need to bnc the 2 mecs
>together
>>>>>>>>>do I? as I use a master word clock. The Aardsync. 4 word clock sends,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>have
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>everything set to 44.1 And I use a Ramsa DA7 motorized fader digital
>>>>>
>>>>>console
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>for input, also set for 44.1
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Don't do as I say, do as I think! ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>David.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Kim wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>"Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>one connected to Card A (default
>>>>>>>>>>>>master) and as Tom mentioned, one MEC connected to the *last
>>>>>>>>>>>>EDS card*
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>You should also note that "last EDS card" refers to "whichever
>card
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| Re: OK...........now I'm gonna have to learn to program midi [message #65457 is a reply to message #65455] |
Thu, 16 March 2006 10:02 |
Tony Benson
Messages: 453
Registered: June 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
e whole reason for having 4 ports on a master wordclock.
> But thanks for the thought.
>
> EK Sound <askme@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>What I was refering to was feeding the WC from the external generator
>>to your master MEC, then connecting a short BNC cable from the master
>>MEC to the slave MEC (assuming both MEC's are connected to EDS cards
>>in ONE computer). The two MEC's will clock quite happily this way,
>>and will be more stable (by my experience) than feeding them both
>>directly from the WC gen. If you had 3+ MEC's, you would have to
>>connect WC directly to each unit and place the "Use house sync" line
>>into the Paris config file.
>>
>>David.
>>
>>Steve Cox wrote:
>>
>>>You can't. There is only one in and one out on each MEC. I need to have
>
> both
>
>>>ins tied up with the master word clock or I will have pops n' snaps galore.
>>>People hate hearing that in their headphones, and I really don't care
>
> to
>
>>>spend the time snipping them out. With all the digital equipment, they
>
> all
>
>>>have to be controled by one clock source. What you are suggesting would
>
> be
>
>>>fine if I was ITB, but I am not. I have a motorized fader Digital console,
>>>Eight ch. mic pres, and two MECs. The whole idea behind having a master
>
> word
>
>>>clock is to stablize all your gear to 44.1 coming from one source.(my
>
> choice)Right??
>
>>>Steve not the art guy
>>>
>>>EK Sound <askme@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Seriously Steve... try looping from one MEC to the other.
>>>>
>>>>David.
>>>>
>>>>Steve Cox wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The reason I have the master word clock is because of the DA7 Digital
>>>
>>>32 channel
>>>
>>>
>>>>>board, an 8 ch. mic pre, and 2 MECs. All locked in at 44.1
>>>>>Steve
>>>>>
>>>>>"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>huh??? have another beer mate! ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Well I'm assuming he's running the wordclock to both MEC's...? ...isn't
>>>>>>that OK?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>...or am I missing something?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>...I mean I've never used Wordclock, so I'm only speaking from what
>
> I've
>
>>>>>>read here, but after reading 500 posts on the subject I kinda thought
>>>
>>>I
>>>
>>>
>>>>>had
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>the idea. ;o)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>
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| Re: OK...........now I'm gonna have to learn to program midi [message #65463 is a reply to message #65421] |
Thu, 16 March 2006 17:22 |
Edna Sloan
Messages: 304
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
have to experiment
>
> to
>
>>>>>work
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>it
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>out.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>But the interfaces need to be on card A and card C in your case,
>>>
>>>as
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>decided
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>by the Paris software.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>Kim.
>>>>>>>>>
>yeah he is, bit I am still waitng on my free U47!
Speaking of paris plugs though, I am having an issue with the paris gates.
And this may be a newbie one, but it is regarding gating snare which I don't
often do. Anyway, at zero lookahead, the gate is still effing up the phase
on my drums, how many nudges and sample slides do I need? (this is a song
on a tribute comp and I really want t gate the snare like to original)
o
Thanks and over and out!
"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>Rich,
>Isn't Dimitrios awesome? ! !
>Tom
>
>
> "rich" <studiodog_99@yahoo.com> wrote in message =
>news:443e9606$1@linux...
>
> Since your LA setting is great (never thought to try what you did) - I
=
>thought
> I'd ask if have any tricks for pop/rock Vox - GIT - Bass or? Thanks =
>for
> all your help!
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><HTML><HEAD>
><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR>
><STYLE></STYLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich,</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Isn't Dimitrios awesome? ! =
>!</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></D
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| Re: OK...........now I'm gonna have to learn to program midi [message #65469 is a reply to message #65457] |
Thu, 16 March 2006 22:13 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"whichever
>>>>>>>>>>>card
>>>>>>
>>>>>>has
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>last designation". It does not refer to anything to do with their
>>>
>>>physical
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>location in your machine. Which one is last in a given machine
>>>>>>>>>>>with
>>>>>>
>>>>>>a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>given
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>OS is almost impossible to predict. You will have to experiment to
>>>>>
>>>>>work
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>it
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>out.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>But the interfaces need to be on card A and card C in your case,
>>>
>>>as
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>decided
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>by the Paris software.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>Kim.
>>>>>>>>>
>
>
> I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
> http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
>
>Insanely good entry :-) I liked the part about the kart hitting 160 in 4.4
Chuck
"DC" <dc@spamthemoon.com> wrote:
>
>meep meep...
>
>http://www.iowahawk.typepad.com/Gene,
Thank you very much for "speaking: the truth about this whole DAW "nastalgic"
sound thing.
Let me just state that I've held my tongue for the last 5 years as I watched
the DAW proaudio market "Hyjack" forward thinking , new fedelity, newer sounding
DAW technology.
The DAW market has been held "ransom" to the "old' guard Engineers who ears
are trained to hear "un-natural" de-emphasis", muddied up recordings.
I remember my very first recording session as a guitar player. The year 1982
as I remember recording my tracks to 2 ich Otari MTR, MCI mixer..Fine.. The
sound was nice, clear just the way I recorded it. But, remember thinking
"This does sound like a record" Hummmm... After all the other instruments
were push up in the mix ,along with the vocals, stillnot a record sound..
In other works, where is the mudied drums? the thudy bass? the muddied vocals
that I heard since I was 4 years old??? where was this sound??
Well, we hen attended the mix session, I soon found out that, the magic was
about to occur!! Out comes the Putec(s),the 1176s,LA2(s) GAtes, DBX160..2
hours later they had that record sound..Hummm...I started thinkng again,
"Man, the sound of 30ips Ampex 456 tape was big, vivid, wide, open, witha
ting og high end fidelity..hummmm This was not the record sound..
So here we are in 1997-98-99.PAris. The pro Engineers on this site priased
it for it's "easy ability" to get that record sound!! wow!!! AND, we lawed
every oter digital recorder mixer for being to ....Digital...Not warm enough,
not dull , or muddy enough..
This Pro Engineer-Producer crowd wined,screemed, bitched, moaned on every
forum that the current state of DAW's (namely Protool
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| Re: OK...........now I'm gonna have to learn to program midi [message #65489 is a reply to message #65469] |
Fri, 17 March 2006 09:28 |
Tony Benson
Messages: 453
Registered: June 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Still, being able to
>> integrate
>> the AD 16X and Ensemble in the same routing software would be very
>> convenient and we could maybe lose the RME and the MOTU altogether.
>>
>> Any comments?
>>
>>
>
>I'm a big fan of *the Dan* and I hear what you're saying. However, I have
also given Donald Fagen's subsequent efforts a good listen and the tracks on
Kamikiriad sound very prittle to my ears. Of course, these may have been
recorded to ADAT or early Pro Tools. Roger nIchols is a big fan of digital
and, IMO, a great engineer. Even though the drums on Aja aren't
*contempoorary sounding*, I still think they work within the context of the
whole mix and that's the point. I'm really not opposed to your point of view
or philosophy in this matter. For me, personally, I haven't found a DAW that
I think is the magic bullet.
Ideally, for me, the trick would be to track directly to 2", while
outputting the playback head to some high-end converter straight to RADAR
Nyquist, then mixing analog using Nyquist/Lavry/Weiss.etc or equal
converters for patching quality analog gear through the board.
All I need now is money. As for the cost of my system, it's really not that
much compared to new PT system and as for Soundscape, I've got a good friend
in Austin who uses it, but with an analog board. I almost made the switch to
Souindscape, but to get a comprable system to my Paris rig would have cost
me waaayyyyyyy more than the combined cost of my Paris rig, Cubase rig,
outboard converters word clock modules, UAD-1 cards, digital patchbays and
miles of analog and digital cabling......wayyyyy more.
I know my rig is a kludge, but I planned it that way. If I was working in
the same environment you do, I'd be all over Pro Tools. It wouldn't make
any sense not to be..and it think it's very cool that it now sounds very
good. I respect your thinking and opinions here.
;o)
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:44403e75$1@linux...
>
> Hey DJ,
>
> Point taken.. However, I think it's more perception than real quality. For
> example: Just yesterday I was listening to one my all-time favorite
albums/CD..Steely
> Dan's Aja!! While Deacon Blues is playing, I start thinking,
> -Is his album great because--
>
> -Great Sound quality/enginnering
> -Great songs
> -Great performances.
> -All the above
>
> We, if I'm honest with myself, I'd have to say that All could apply, BUT,
> when I lsiten to the drums, they sound like cardboard boxes...Chuck
Rainey's
> Bass is not a true representation of a Fender Percision, it has been
dumb-down
> to thuds.. Horn-Fine, Rhodes-fines, Guitars-Fine..But, is that way a band
> sound "naturally".. Or is it the cookie cutter approach to mixing..Getting
> the tight mix sound..??
>
> Maybe Bruece Sweiden approach of analog to capture, then off to digital
> land is the sonic way.. Lord knows his productions with "ZThe Gloved" one
> are truly "works of sonic art" , productions, egneering second to none..
>
> But, to say soemthing is pleasing to the ears is a learned behavior of the
> "RecordSound".. The old guard engineers for some reason were "scare of
the
> digital sound until they were able to make it sound close to 1975. Audio
> tools are just that tools that are like color paltets for and artist. But,
> it seems that n matter the strides in technolgy, the old guard wants to
keep
> the overall sound 1975 reguadles of what recording medium you are using(
> 2inch,Adat,D-88,MDR, DAWS)..That's disturbing to me..
>
> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
> >I think it's great that we don't have to deal with some of the issues
that
> >made recording such a chore and required such a number of tools to deal
> >with, but I'm not nearly as convinced as you guys that *accurate is
better*.
> >Listen to the Dixie Chicks first CD that was recorded to tape and then
> >subsequent ones that were recorded to digital. The latter fefforts sound
> >great, but they don't sound as pleasing to my ear as the first one. The
> >remix of Hotel California is another example of digital awfulness. It's
> very
> >accurate and sounds like pure crap, IMO.....and it was originally
recorded
> >to tape and then PT'ed. Sorry, but it doee sound terrible compared to the
> >original to my ears. With all of the new nice shiny tools we have
available
> >today, it's possible to hear *more* as far as dugital ugliness is
concerned
> >as well. Analog gear and tape provides glue. Lots of stuff falls apart
> >without glue.
> >
> >Deej
> >"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:443fd3ca$1@linux...
> >>
> >> Dedric, once again, with a tear in my left eye-smile :) You have state
> >what
> >> I was going to say in response to my original post.
> >> Thanks buddy...
> >&g
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| Re: OK...........now I'm gonna have to learn to program midi [message #65490 is a reply to message #65419] |
Fri, 17 March 2006 09:31 |
Deej [1]
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
t;
> >> "The overwhelming impression and approach I've taken, and got from
reading
> >> the history of it, is that the goal of recording has always been to
> >recreate
> >> what we hear as accurately as possible. Yet, I think somewhere along
> the
> >> way when engineers
> >> quickly realized that technology was a long way from being able to do
> >that,
> >> someone decided to make it a creative venture rather than an accuracy
> >venture."
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
> >> >I don't think, or at least I hope, there won't be a continued trend
for
> >> FM,
> >> >compressed radio and 64k mp3s to dictate sound. When I think of
> >"outdated"
> >> >I think of limited bandwidth, sometimes noisy, and often mushy sound
> -
> >not
> >> a
> >> >recording style, or even mixing style necessarily, although it does
> >change
> >> >based on pop culture and available technology more than science.
> >> >
> >> >A while back I read a bit on the history of recording. The
overwhelming
> >> >impression and approach I've taken, and got from reading the history
> of
> >> it,
> >> >is that the goal of recording has always been to recreate what we hear
> as
> >> >accurately as possible. Yet, I think somewhere along the way when
> >engineers
> >> >quickly realized that technology was a long way from being able to do
> >that,
> >> >someone decided to make it a creative venture rather than an accuracy
> >> >venture. Obviously there are creative requirements that
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| Re: OK...........now I'm gonna have to learn to program midi [message #65516 is a reply to message #65514] |
Sat, 18 March 2006 12:27 |
Deej [1]
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
ond
> card!
>
> Dan
>
> "db" <daniel_burneNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>Ok, finally got a second EDS card installed properly and working. After
> about
>>1 minute of working with it, I started getting a permanent crackle in one
>>of the two card submixes. Even whilst playback was stopped. The crackle
>>shows the submix faders. Any ideas?
>>
>>I've tried reinstalling the driver (both using setup and device manager
> -
>>the latter doesn't work at all, although having searched the newsgroup
>>this
>>was a suggested crackle solution).
>>
>>I'm going to try removing effects and plugs ins to see if that makes any
>>difference. In the meantime any advice greatly appreciated.
>>
>>Could it be a bad second eds card?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Dan
>thanks for the info. Are any of them able to expand the sound
libraries? Realistically I'd like about 20 drum sets stored in the box
using exactly the drum samples I supply. Of course it needs to allow me
to easily assign the samples to each pad and set pan/volume positions
easily. I played a roland at guitar center and thought the sounds were
hip hop oriented and sucked for rock/jazz.
And do any of them have a highhat that works right?
Thanks !!
Jamie K wrote:
>
> For electronic drums: My DDrum 4 kit has taken a serious beating for
> years without complaints or failure. I have the cast precision pads
> which they don't make anymore but you can find that version of the kit
> used on ebay. I've replaced the heads with long lasting mesh heads which
> I prefer to the standard drum heads, but you can use either with those
> pads. This setup offers positional sensing.
>
> For live I use the internal sounds which are reasonably responsive and
> convincing. It was the most convincing electronic set at the time I
> chose it. Still one of the best. I recently got a DW/Pacific Chameleon
> kit (mesh on one side, regular head on the other) to try with DDrum
> triggers. Can use it as an acoustic kit or as a trigger kit.
>
> For recording I sometimes use DDrum samples but more often trigger
> Native Intruments' Battery 2 via MIDI to control bigger sample sets (you
> can also sample your own sounds for Battery 2). I also use additional
> pads through an Alesis D4 so I can trigger my 6 tom, 7 cymbal, plus a
> few specials, mondo kit. I built my own extra pads out of Remo practice
> pads, old mouse pads and piezo picku
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| Re: OK...........now I'm gonna have to learn to program midi [message #65534 is a reply to message #65529] |
Sun, 19 March 2006 02:09 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
ace, at all times, and I try and rotate
> which beers are in the fridge each month when I do my beer shopping. :o)
>
> So I was thinking that surely some of you have some great beer suggestions
> for me. The difficult part is of course that boutique beers from north
> america
> can be pretty hard to find down here in Australia. Our range of European
> beers is getting better, especially if you shop in the right places, but
> there's not that much from the U.S.
>
> But if you have favourite beer, give it a shot,I'd love to know what it
> is.
> I'll see if I can't find some of them and give them a go. :o)
>
> I mean you guys must know something about beer. ;o)
>
> Cheers,
> Kim.If you haven't tried Sam Smith, it's the best brewery in the world, IMO.
Everything they make is perfect.
Can't beat Boddington's, Newcastle, Speckled Hen, and Bass, either. Love me
some English beer.
German and Czech, too.
"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:44419d24$1@linux...
>
>
> Now, some of you may have picked up that I enjoy the odd beer. ;o)
>
> I actually have a beer fridge with a glass door and all, which has a
selection
> of 12 beers, from all over the place, at all times, and I try and rotate
> which beers are in the fridge each month when I do my beer shopping. :o)
>
> So I was thinking that surely some of you have some great beer suggestions
> for me. The difficult part
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| Re: OK...........now I'm gonna have to learn to program midi [message #65535 is a reply to message #65534] |
Sun, 19 March 2006 04:22 |
John [1]
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
is of course that boutique beers from north
america
> can be pretty hard to find down here in Australia. Our range of European
> beers is getting better, especially if you shop in the right places, but
> there's not that much from the U.S.
>
> But if you have favourite beer, give it a shot,I'd love to know what it
is.
> I'll see if I can't find some of them and give them a go. :o)
>
> I mean you guys must know something about beer. ;o)
>
> Cheers,
> Kim.Sorry I ment Boddington's...had the stupid bear on the brain syndrome again
Don
"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:44425f4f@linux...
> Not a great "Canadian beer" fan we like Becks, Corona, Rickards Red,
> Witches Brew, Hobbgoblin, Fiddlers something-or-other, Paddington Creme,
> Lakeport Honey, Lakeport Lager...and several micro brewery beers,
> depending on what tickles our fancy when we hit the Beer Store or LCBO
> (Liquor Control Board of Ontario)
>
> Used to be a big fan of Carling Black Label (before they changed the
> recipe) and Upper Canada Publican (before the discontinued it) ...great
> throat ripping beers when ice cold
>
> DOn
>
>
> "Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:44419d24$1@linux...
>>
>>
>> Now, some of you may have picked up that I enjoy the odd beer. ;o)
>>
>> I actually have a beer fridge with a glass door and all, which has a
>> selection
>> of 12 beers, from all over the place, at all times, and I try and rotate
>> which beers are in the fridge each month when I do my beer shopping. :o)
>>
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