Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » MEC + 442 -- questions.....
| MEC + 442 -- questions..... [message #93139] |
Tue, 27 November 2007 17:01  |
Paul Braun
Messages: 391
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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//www.jackmyers.com/commentary/shelly-palmer-report/138 65472.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>"Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>I was actually just referring to the fact that with every Mac release, there
>are three desktop models,
>usually starting at $2k and going up - this round, $2799 is the starting
>price, and only options for dual quad cores,
>no range below that for people who don't need "blinding speed" to write
book
>reports ;-).
>
>There are 2 laptop model choices, ranging between $1100 and $2800 for one
of
>the six base models. In the PC world
>there are choices in each category at pretty much every $100 increment,
>starting at $300 and going up to $10k+. Not that I would buy a $300
>desktop, but I still come back to the laptop I'm typing this on, costing
>significantly less than the least expensiv
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| Re: MEC + 442 -- questions..... [message #93140 is a reply to message #93139] |
Tue, 27 November 2007 18:23  |
Kim
Messages: 1246
Registered: October 2005
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Senior Member |
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e Macbook (current) and only a
>slightly slower cpu (since it's a model from early last year), for $400
less
>than the comparable Macbook, but otherwise, pretty much identical (it does
>have a partially aluminum case, and feels better than the Macbooks I've
>tried).
>
>There has to be a reason Apple only has a minority share of the personal
>computer market... ;-)
>
>I wasn't trying to knock Apple, and I'm not attached to my PCs (other than
>the significant investment in software that is costly to replace or
>crossgrade) - just saying that imho, Shelly's reasoning is based on the
fact
>that he's enamoured with the chique (sp?) of Apple, rather than just getting
>what he needs, and that without a mystical, glorious Keynote unveiling of
>trend setting products, that chique doesn't last long. Imho, that chique
is
>hurting consumers as it keeps Apple's product prices higher, with less range
>of price point competition, but for Apple customers, price doesn't seem
to
>be a concern. Basically Apple has its' customers right where it wants them.
>Imho, it should be the other way around, and then we would truly have more
>choices.
>
>re: BeOS.... same here.
>
>Dedric
Here we go again! Apple has desk top models under 2K. Apple's market share
probably has more to do with ignorant people spewing ignorant things about
Apple.
Apple desk top models that start under 2K:
• 1.83GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
• 1GB memory
• 80GB hard drive1
$599.00
or as low as $15 a month
• 2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
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| Re: MEC + 442 -- questions..... [message #93142 is a reply to message #93140] |
Tue, 27 November 2007 18:07 |
Tom Bruhl
Messages: 1368
Registered: June 2007
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Senior Member |
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$1100 and $2800 for one
> of
>>the six base models. In the PC world
>>there are choices in each category at pretty much every $100 increment,
>
>>starting at $300 and going up to $10k+. Not that I would buy a $300
>>desktop, but I still come back to the laptop I'm typing this on, costing
>
>>significantly less than the least expensive Macbook (current) and only a
>
>>slightly slower cpu (since it's a model from early last year), for $400
> less
>>than the comparable Macbook, but otherwise, pretty much identical (it does
>
>>have a partially aluminum case, and feels better than the Macbooks I've
>
>>tried).
>>
>>There has to be a reason Apple only has a minority share of the personal
>
>>computer market... ;-)
>>
>>I wasn't trying to knock Apple, and I'm not attached to my PCs (other than
>
>>the significant investment in software that is costly to replace or
>>crossgrade) - just saying that imho, Shelly's reasoning is based on the
> fact
>>that he's enamoured with the chique (sp?) of Apple, rather than just
>>getting
>
>>what he needs, and that without a mystical, glorious Keynote unveiling of
>
>>trend setting products, that chique doesn't last long. Imho, that chique
> is
>>hurting consumers as it keeps Apple's product prices higher, with less
>>range
>
>>of price point competition, but for Apple customers, price doesn't seem
> to
>>be a concern. Basically Apple has its' customers right where it wants
>>them.
>
>>Imho, it should be the other way around, and then we would truly have more
>
>>choices.
>>
>>re: BeOS.... same here.
>>
>>Dedric
>
>
> Here we go again! Apple has desk top models under 2K. Apple's market
> share
> probably has more to do with ignorant people spewing ignorant things about
> Apple.
>
> Apple desk top models that start under 2K:
>
>
> . 1.83GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
> . 1GB memory
> . 80GB hard drive1
>
>
> $599.00
> or as low as $15 a month
>
> . 2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
> . 1GB memory
> . 120GB hard drive1
>
>
> $799.00
> or as low as $19 a month
>
>
>
> . 2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
> . 1GB memory
> . 250GB hard drive1
> . 8x double-layer SuperDrive
> . ATI Radeon HD 2400 XT with 128MB memory
>
>
> $1,199.00
> or as low as $29 a month
>
> . 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
> . 1GB memory
> . 320GB hard drive1
> . 8x double-layer SuperDrive
> . ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO with 256MB memory
>
> $1,499.00
> or as low as $36 a month
>
> . 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
> . 1GB memory
> . 320GB hard drive1
> . 8x double-layer SuperDrive
> . ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO with 256MB memory
>
> $1,799.00
> or as low as $43 a month
>
>
> Or are we going to argue form factor?
>
>>
>>"Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:4790eeca@linux...
>>> Dedric Terry wrote:
>>>> Shelly's complaints, however generalized, pretty much echo that of
>>>> every
>
>>>> PC user who's passed on going the Mac route:
>>>> There is one price point with Apple Macs: $2000 and up. Sure, more
>>>> computer is more computer, but most people just don't need
>>>> the bleeding edge for $2-4k to email Aunt Sally and store the family
>
>>>> photo album.
>>>
>>> I don't think that's what he's saying. The box he's complaining about
> _is_
>>> under $2K (configured the way most people who care about price would buy
>
>>> it). Just because he stupidly overpaid for his Mac doesn't mean others
>
>>> will. But if that's your complaint, there are Macs for less than $2k.
>>>
>>> If the general complaint about Apple is price, then it should be noted
>
>>> that the new desktop boxes are less expensive than Dell's, and the new
>
>>> super light notebook is less expensive than Sony's (and under 2K in the
>
>>> standard configuration).
>>>
>>>
>>>> The MacBook, feels cheap, and while it has good specs and isn't really
>
>>>> out of line with a comparable PC laptop, it sits alone in it's sub $2k
>
>>>> price point in the Apple lineup.
>>>
>>> Other than the Mac Mini and iMac. Oh, you mean laptops. Yes, except for
>
>>> the low end MacBook Pro and the new MacBook Air, sans flash drive. As
> for
>>> "feeling cheap," the MacBook does have a plastic case. But my wife has
> one
>>> (G4 version); it seems reasonably rugged and has held up well. It also
>
>>> gets better wireless reception than my metal-clad Powerbook.
>>>
>>>
>>>> My laptop cost $750 and has comparable specs to the Macbook, but with
>
>>>> more I/O (it's closer to the Macbook pro in feature set - not psyched
>
>>>> about Vista on it, but I can't deny it gets the same job done for a lot
>
>>>> less money).
>>>
>>> It's good to have choices. Apple is only one choice. If another choice
> is
>>> better for you, by all means buy it. If everyone bought a Mac, Apple
>>> would
>
>>> be insufferable. :^)
>>>
>>> Competition is good. On the flip side, if Apple weren't pushing the
>>> envelope, the other companies building commodity MSWindows boxes would
> be
>>> less motivated to give you stuff you like. So keep buying what moves
>>> you,
>
>>> be it Apple or someone else.
>>>
>>>
>>>> The same is true of desktops. So his point is based on his opening
>>>> comments about being enamoured with all things Apple.
>>>> Sure, he could have gone cheaper, but money is hardly a concern for
>>>> Shelly considering his success - it's just a reference point
>>>> that he could have spent 1/3 of what he did and accomplished the same
>
>>>> amount of work, but being enamoured with Apple, he goes for the gold
>
>>>> instead. In other words, he's a victim of clever marketing - getting
> you
>>>> to buy way more than you need or want.
>>>
>>> I can't speak for him, but I didn't buy way more than I need or want,
> and
>>> I have a Mac.
>>>
>>>
>>>> When you have the option to pay $1000 or less and get the same job done
>
>>>> (depending on what job you are trying to accomplish of course), vs.
>>>>
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| Re: MEC + 442 -- questions..... [message #93189 is a reply to message #93188] |
Thu, 29 November 2007 19:57 |
Tom Bruhl
Messages: 1368
Registered: June 2007
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Senior Member |
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>>>
>>>>>>> Pro and added 3rd party RAM at considerable savings. So he blows his
>>>
>>>>>>> credibility right off the top with that exaggerated comparison.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "It costs $1,799 for the base model. But, set up the way anybody who
>>>
>>>>>>> needs a computer would have to set it up, it's a $4,000 1.6Ghz, 64GB
>>>
>>>>>>> box. The same 4k buys you a mind-blowing Vista box or a smokin'
>>>>>>> MacBook
>>>
>>>>>>> Pro."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hypberbole. He's blaming Apple for the cost of a solid state drive.
>>> This
>>>>>>> makes no sense. Notice that the price he complains about is the
>>>>>>> price
>>>
>>>>>>> WITH the flash drive option. Yet Apple actually charges less than
>
>>>>>>> street
>>>
>>>>>>> price to add that drive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If price is the issue, it's too soon to buy a 54GB solid state drive
>>> on
>>>>>>> ANY laptop, not just Apple's. Also, he adds the SSD to the MacBook
> Air
>>>
>>>>>>> and then compares that configuration to laptops without an SSD. If
>>>>>>> that's the comparison, then he should compare the $1700 non-SSD
>>>>>>> version
>>>
>>>>>>> of the Air to the other subnotebooks. And at that point he has
>>>>>>> little
>>>
>>>>>>> point.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He could have complained about the lack of firewire or groused about
>>> the
>>>>>>> need for an adapter to use ethernet, but he didn't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "The movie studios like this, I like it! However, Wall Street didn't
>>>
>>>>>>> seem to like it at all. Apple shares were down $9.74 to $169.04 the
>>> day
>>>>>>> after Steve's speech."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The article I linked the other day showed that Apple shares usually
>>> go
>>>>>>> down after the keynote. Also, the entire market took a hit on
>>>>>>> Wednesday
>>>
>>>>>>> for issues not directly related to a speech by Steve Jobs. :^)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "I really wanted to see something really great and useful from Apple
>>>
>>>>>>> this week. On the top of my wishlist was a true sub-notebook.
>>>>>>> Something
>>>
>>>>>>> I could throw in a portfolio or briefcase for short hops."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Since he's not complaining about a lack of ports, I don't know why
> the
>>>
>>>>>>> Air doesn't fulfill that role for him. Maybe he's too cool to buy
> the
>>>
>>>>>>> base version with the hard drive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He did like the movie rentals, which I think may be the most
>>>>>>> important
>>>
>>>>>>> announcement of MacWorld for future impact on Apple's growth. He did
>>>
>>>>>>> like the Time Capsule, which is at least interesting. He hates the
>>>>>>> iPhone and AT&T, so he'll just have to keep complaining about that
>
>>>>>>> until
>>>
>>>>>>> their exclusive relationship ends.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Neil wrote:
>>>>>>>> A great read once again from Mr. Palmer...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.jackmyers.com/commentary/shelly-palmer-report/138 65472.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>Master fader: That's how Digi's controllers work. Hard assign per session.
Stays put until you tell it somethings different.
Being that the Eu
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| Re: MEC + 442 -- questions..... [message #93193 is a reply to message #93190] |
Fri, 30 November 2007 00:14 |
Tom Bruhl
Messages: 1368
Registered: June 2007
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Senior Member |
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>
>>responsible for the in the field mixers.. basically put, 4 to 12 ish
>>channels each.
>
> You going to work for a TV station, Aaron?
>
> NeilOn 17/1/08 3:22 PM, in article 478ec9f7$1@linux, "Deej" <noway@jose.net>
wrote:
>
> Didn't like it much on the first couple of listens. Put it away for about
> a month. I've been sitting here doing a bunch of office drugery all day,
> listening to music and I'm nearing the end of it and about 20 minutes I
> put the new Eagles CD on. I'm suddenly loving it. Very retro sometimes, very
> new sometimes...slick production but still quintessential Eagles.
>
> Waiting In The Weeds is a really stellar piece of work from just about every
> angle I can see.
>
> Go figure.
John hated it...remember?
Martin HDedric Terry wrote:
> Hey Jamie - I agree completely - Shelly was venting more than reviewing.
>
> Regarding the tricked out Mac pro vs. satellites, yes, it would make
> sense to go with a single machine, if the host apps could allocate a
> full 64-bit address space to Kontakt, etc, but from what I've read so
> far on the East West/Soundsonline forum, they can't (Logic included I
> think). That's only a matter of time though - just not sure when or how
> long it will be.
Don't audio unit plugins get their own address space (I don't know, just
wondering)? But anyway since OSX has 64 bit memory addressing, you're
probably right that over time more apps will take advantage of it.
> There may be a few other limitations to running a full blown orchestral
> lib a la VSL or EWQL Symphonic Platinum
> on a single machine, but we are getting closer no doubt. Such a rig
> would need at least 16G - 32 preferrably, so it's not
> a cheap move when there are working satellite systems already in place.
No, not cheap, but it's probably more flexible use of the RAM than
spreading it out over multiple boxes. If it's in one box you can use it
for other apps more easily.
> On the single quad - didn't even see that. Still a bit pricey compared
> to a single-quad, single socket PC (I'm guessing the MacPro motherboard
> is still a dual socket with a single quad - those boards are around $400
> I think, and the single Xeon is more than the conroe Quad, which I can
> get for $300). For the difference with the Mac Pro, even at $500, I
> would go dual quad. It's a difference of allocating a machine for
> samples, or video playback (which is hard to justify in the $2k and up
> range), vs. buying a host system. For a host though, dual quad would be
> the way to go, and I probably will this year. There the Mac prices are
> certainly competitive.... I just can't get Sequoia ported to Mac.....and
> my Adobe CS3 web suite that I need to manage my site has no platform
> crossgrade plan (pretty lame imho - probably the only company I know of
> that has either/or platform licensing).
Yep, that is lame. Luckily the Mac can run MSWindows in another, uh,
window, via Parallels or that other VM.
With the single quad, you could presumably add the other quad later to
almost double the speed. Nice expandability for anyone who's $500 short
of affording the dual quad. But yeah, I'd buy the dual quad from the
getgo if I were buying right now.
> The other issue for the time being is that Nuendo is running 10-15%
> faster on XP than Leopard. Hopefully that will change though.
> I'd love to have a 1:1 choice between them - then it comes down to fun
> and convenience. Mac wins there.
Interesting, I wonder if the optimizations are needed on the OSX side,
if it's a Nuendo porting problem, or both.
> Btw - I really do admire Apple's attention to design, form and function
> and making products that do in fact set a high standard for
> the industry in general. It's really a great product line. Lovin' my
> iPod Touch.
Glad to hear you made up with your errant Touch! I hope it learned a
valuable lesson by being left at home for a while. :^)
Don't show it to me when I come over or I might be tempted to get the
next rev. :^)
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
> Regards,
> Dedric
>
> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:47913a5b@linux...
>> Dedric Terry wrote:
>>> Hey Jamie - I really didn't intend to get this far into this, and
>>> don't really have time
>>> to continue much more.
>>
>> I'm with ya, bro.
>>
>>
>>> I was just sharing my opinion on Shelly Palmer's report
>>> saying that while I'm sure there was quite a bit of tongue in cheek
>>> to his opening comments,
>>> he at least was pointing out why people spend more on Macs when they
>>> could get the
>>> job done for much less - marketing, pure and simple.
>>
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| Re: MEC + 442 -- questions..... [message #93207 is a reply to message #93193] |
Fri, 30 November 2007 09:51 |
Paul Braun
Messages: 391
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
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>>>>>>>> light is a compelling enough advantage to outweigh (so to speak)
>>>>>>>> any down side. :^)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's a narrowly aimed product, and I'm not surprised that people
>>>>>>>> outside of the target market miss the point. I think he phoned
>>>>>>>> it in because he complained about non-Air-specific-issues,
>>>>>>>> blatan
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| Re: MEC + 442 -- questions..... [message #93208 is a reply to message #93207] |
Fri, 30 November 2007 09:07 |
Tom Bruhl
Messages: 1368
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
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tly exaggerating to do so, while missing real issues with
>>>>>>>> the Air.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>> Dedric
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:4790ddca$1@linux...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A good read but not a great analysis. He phoned it in.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "I’m walking around with a $4,700 MacBook Pro laptop that
>>>>>>>>>> could easily be replaced by $1,500 Windows kit."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If price were the issue, he would have paid a lot less for the
>>>>>>>>>> MacBook Pro and added 3rd party RAM at considerable savings.
>>>>>>>>>> So he blows his credibility right off the top with that
>>>>>>>>>> exaggerated comparison.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "It costs $1,799 for the base model. But, set up the way
>>>>>>>>>> anybody who needs a computer would have to set it up, it’s a
>>>>>>>>>> $4,000 1.6Ghz, 64GB box. The same 4k buys you a mind-blowing
>>>>>>>>>> Vista box or a smokin’ MacBook Pro."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hypberbole. He's blaming Apple for the cost of a solid state
>>>>>>>>>> drive. This makes no sense. Notice that the price he complains
>>>>>>>>>> about is the price WITH the flash drive option. Yet Apple
>>>>>>>>>> actually charges less than street price to add that drive.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If price is the issue, it's too soon to buy a 54GB solid state
>>>>>>>>>> drive on ANY laptop, not just Apple's. Also, he adds the SSD
>>>>>>>>>> to the MacBook Air and then compares that configuration to
>>>>>>>>>> laptops without an SSD. If that's the comparison, then he
>>>>>>>>>> should compare the $1700 non-SSD version of the Air to the
>>>>>>>>>> other subnotebooks. And at that point he has little point.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> He could have complained about the lack of firewire or groused
>>>>>>>>>> about the need for an adapter to use ethernet, but he didn't.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "The movie studios like this, I like it! However, Wall Street
>>>>>>>>>> didn’t seem to like it at all. Apple shares were down $9.74 to
>>>>>>>>>> $169.04 the day after Steve’s speech."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The article I linked the other day showed that Apple shares
>>>>>>>>>> usually go down after the keynote. Also, the entire market
>>>>>>>>>> took a hit on Wednesday for issues not directly related to a
>>>>>>>>>> speech by Steve Jobs. :^)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "I really wanted to see something really great and
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