Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Pan Problem
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| Re: Pan Problem [message #61264 is a reply to message #61263] |
Tue, 13 December 2005 13:45   |
EK Sound
 Messages: 939 Registered: June 2005
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Senior Member |
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;(in the Box) or summed to the SSL,
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>At my home studio, I have PT LE & Nuendo and while I love Nuendo's
>>> elequent
>>>> >>>>editing and nice soft sound, it's 32 bit floating mixer in a major
>>> pain
>>>> >>>in
>>>> >>>>!@# to mix aggresive Rock, R &B, Hip hop with. Onthe other hand,
>>> those
>>>> >>>same
>>>> >>>>mixes done in PT LE, have that sparkle and width. In Nuendo, after
> 30
>>>> >tracks,
>>>> >>>>things start's getting "smearded" and tracks levels tends to get
> lost
>>>> >or
>&
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| Re: Pan Problem [message #61283 is a reply to message #61280] |
Tue, 13 December 2005 21:15   |
RK
 Messages: 51 Registered: December 2005
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Member |
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ch other out. Does
anyone use this, and if so, how do you get the FX to not whack each other
out?Can't get to the address. Maybe they sold it! How much did they want for
it?
Kent
"Chris Wargo" <na@na.na> wrote in message news:43bc5bcf$1@linux...
>
> Haven't seen one of these new in a while...
>
> http://www.music123.com/Ensoniq-PARIS3-i228172.musicCan anyone explain this another way? I don't get it........
If you want to edit across multiple submixes
1. Edit your first submix by cutting up all objects at the Now Line and
deleting (or adding) them in unison until you have the right edit. Drag
'em around to taste, all together, until you have the best compromise edit.
2. Undo the Edit, returning all edited objects to their previous state,
selected and ready to cut or add. Make sure the objects you're deleting
or inserting are selected, and are all the same length, which they will
be if you cut them at the Now Line.
3. Click in the Information Bar to Sel End (Selection Range) to find out
the EXACT LENGTH of the objects you've cut/ added.
4. Go to Insert/ Delete Time and enter the exact time stated in the
Information Bar thing that's been hidden from you lo these many years.
BOOM. You're done! Just like that! All your automation, all your
markers, all objects in all editor windows, everything has been moved
exactly the way you wanted.their whole site is dead unless they sold the entire company...hehe
RK wrote:
> Can't get to the address. Maybe they sold it! How much did they want for
> it?
>
> Kent
>
> "Chris Wargo" <na@na.na> wrote in message news:43bc5bcf$1@linux...
>
>>Haven't seen one of these new in a while...
>>
>>http://www.music123.com/Ensoniq-PARIS3-i228172.music
>
>
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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RK,
I've never used an out of phase signal for this purpose. I have
used something similar though. Copy lead vocal track to an
adjacent channel, pan each hard lft-rt, move the left track a =
millisecond or
even less back in time. The vocal should widen without sounding
processed. Keep their faders equal level. Your ear will naturally hear =
the
earlier track (lft) first and perceive that it's louder.
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| Re: Pan Problem [message #61286 is a reply to message #61283] |
Tue, 13 December 2005 22:20   |
Tom Bruhl
 Messages: 1368 Registered: June 2007
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Senior Member |
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rintable
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>RK,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've never used an out of phase signal =
for this=20
purpose. I have</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>used something similar though. =
Copy lead=20
vocal track to an</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>adjacent channel, pan each hard lft-rt, =
move the left track a millisecond or</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>even less back in time. The vocal =
should=20
widen without sounding</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>processed. Keep their faders =
equal=20
level. Your ear will naturally hear the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>earlier track (lft) first and perceive =
that it's=20
louder. If you feel that's disconcerting </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>try raising the right </FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>to level it out. This may decrease the effectiveness of =
the=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>process though.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Another way to get it to sound more =
present is to=20
double</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>compress the track with comps in series =
but only=20
reducing by 2 or 3db each.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sometimes a third comp is needed along =
with level=20
automation. The idea</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>is to not hear pumping but have a =
fairly steady=20
state level to the vocal.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This will allow you to get it to ride =
on top of the=20
mix without jumping out</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>to bite you.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"RK" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:kent510745@hotmail.com">kent510745@hotmail.com</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A =
href=3D"news:43bc7a43@linux">news:43bc7a43@linux</A>...</DIV>
<DIV>Trying to get lead vocals to jump out of the mix and I remember a =
trick<BR>listed somewhere telling you to copy a vocal track to a =
different=20
track, pan<BR>tracks left and right, then reverse the phase on the =
second=20
track and slowly<BR>bring the fader on the second track to meet the =
other=20
track fader at 0.<BR>Seemed to work, but the effects seemed to cancel =
each=20
other out. Does<BR>anyone use this, and if so, how do you get =
the FX to=20
not whack each other<BR>out?<BR><BR><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>RK,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Only apply effects to the +phase=20
track.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0146_01C61174.3CC1A500--So you hook the BNC from the MEC out (external clock) into the 442? I'm
confused as to how Paris interprets this and what the end result is.
Another 4 inputs? Can the 442 be assigned to submix 2 while the MEC is on
submix 1?
Do you need to configure anything, or will Paris automatically pick it up?
Are you using any special type of BNC cable (I think there are a couple
different kinds?) Who is John Galt?
KentThis is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Cool, I'll give that a try.
Tom, didn't you used to be down in the Bay Area? I'm just getting back =
into Paris, but I thought you were trying to get a Bay Area user group =
going a couple years back. =20
Kent
"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote in message =
news:43bc8234@linux...
RK,
I've never used an out of phase signal for this purpose. I have
used something similar though. Copy lead vocal track to an
adjacent channel, pan each hard lft-rt, move the left track a =
millisecond or
even less back in time. The vocal should widen without sounding
processed. Keep their faders equal level. Your ear will naturally =
hear the
earlier track (lft) first and perceive that it's louder. If you feel =
that's disconcerting=20
try raising the right to level it out. This may decrease the =
effectiveness of the=20
process though.
Another way to get it to sound more present is to double
compress the track with comps in series but only reducing by 2 or 3db =
each.
Sometimes a third comp is needed along with level automation. The =
idea
is to not hear pumping but have a fairly steady state level to the =
vocal.
This will allow you to get it to ride on top of the mix without =
jumping out
to bite you.
"RK" <kent510745@hotmail.com> wrote in message =
news:43bc7a43@linux...
Trying to get lead vocals to jump out of the mix and I remember a =
trick
listed somewhere telling you to copy a vocal track to a different =
track, pan
tracks left and right, then reverse the phase on the second track =
and slowly
bring the fader on the second track to meet the other track fader at =
0.
Seemed to work, but the effects seemed to cancel each other out. =
Does
anyone use this, and if so, how do you get the FX to not whack each =
other
out?
RK,
Only apply effects to the +phase track.
Tom
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<STYLE></STYLE>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cool, I'll give that a =
try.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom, didn't you used to be down in the =
Bay=20
Area? I'm just getting back into Paris, but I thought you were =
trying to=20
get a Bay Area user group going a couple years back. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Kent</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Tom Bruhl" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>> wrote =
in message=20
<A href=3D"news:43bc8234@linux">news:43bc8234@linux</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>RK,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've never used an out of phase =
signal for this=20
purpose. I have</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>used something similar though. =
Copy lead=20
vocal track to an</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>adjacent channel, pan each hard =
lft-rt,=20
move the left track a millisecond or</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>even less back in time. The =
vocal should=20
widen without sounding</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>processed. Keep their faders =
equal=20
level. Your ear will naturally hear the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>earlier track (lft) first and =
perceive that it's=20
louder. If you feel that's disconcerting </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>try raising the right </FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>to level it out. This may decrease the effectiveness of =
the=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>process though.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Another way to get it to sound more =
present is to=20
double</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>compress the track with comps in =
series but only=20
reducing by 2 or 3db each.</FONT>&
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| Re: Pan Problem [message #61290 is a reply to message #61286] |
Tue, 13 December 2005 23:13   |
RK
 Messages: 51 Registered: December 2005
|
Member |
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ke sure there is somewhat of ahole around the vocals so that they
fill that void or hole all by themselves.
A quick trick is to throw the mix in mono and see what you hear...if the
guitar or piano is interfering, try a new level or re-EQ the offending
instrument so it backs off enough to give the vocals their space.
Doubling or tripling work (with appropriate time delay)...adding a chorus to
the third can help...compressing a copy of the vox track and blending to
taste might work..and the above suggestion will work
YMMV
Don
"RK" <kent510745@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:43bc7a43@linux...
> Trying to get lead vocals to jump out of the mix and I remember a trick
> listed somewhere telling you to copy a vocal track to a different track,
> pan
> tracks left and right, then reverse the phase on the second track and
> slowly
> bring the fader on the second track to meet the other track fader at 0.
> Seemed to work, but the effects seemed to cancel each other out. Does
> anyone use this, and if so, how do you get the FX to not whack each other
> out?
>
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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What bugs me is the final fix is always the last thing I think of...
"Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote in message =
news:43bb476f@linux...
Keep notes bro, every time you build. Funny how those little snags are =
always the ones that kick us in the sack for days until we cry like =
Homer=20
"DOH" and realize just what we forgot.
AA
"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message=20
news:43b985f7$1@linux...
> Found the problem. Didn't have the "allow users to change my files"=20
> settings
> clicked on the SX computer so though I could transfer from the SX =
DAw to=20
> the
> Paris DAW (backasswards from what I need to be doing), I couldn't =
transfer
> from the Paris DAw to the Cubase DAW. Pilot error .......as usual.
>
> Seems like I need to build a DAW a week just to keep my syanpses =
firing
> properly. When I go for a couple of years, I forget one of the
> 327443333333337892 simple little things that are necessary to make =
this
> happen.
>
> I did talk to Chris Ludwig earlier today. It ws gratifying to know =
that
> 99.9% of the wierdness I've experienced while building this DAW has =
also
> been encountered by others.
>
> OK.......now where was I????
>
> ;o)
>
> "EK Sound" <spamnot.info@eksoundNO.com> wrote in message
> news:43b97979$1@linux...
>> That was the issue here... sometimes it would work, other times... =
not
>> so much.
>>
>> David.
>>
>> DJ wrote:
>> > Nope......didn't work after all.........Grrrrrrrr ...........;o(
>> >
>> > "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
>> > news:43b972eb$1@linux...
>> >
>> >>I fixed this by going into my ME networking and setting up a the =
drives
> to
>> >>access using a password. I have no idea why it should need this =
now,=20
>> >>but
>> >>it's just a small thing and it's working now so I'm not gonna =
worry
> about
>> >>it. pita though.
>> >>
>> >>Deej
>> >>
>> >>"EK Sound" <spamnot.info@eksoundNO.com> wrote in message
>> >>news:43b95eb1@linux...
>> >>
>> >>>Our networking guys for the office shudder everytime they hear =
"ME"...
>> >>> we actually had to remove ME from all our office machines =
because
>> >>>they were so unstable with the new network we installed =
recently.
>> >>>
>> >>>David.
>> >>>
>> >>>DJ wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>What's strange about this is that it was workig perfectly with =
my
>> >
>> > other
>> >
>> >>DAW.
>> >>
>> >>>>I hven't made any changes at all to any settings on the Paris =
DAW
>> >>
>> >>running
>> >>
>> >>>>ME.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>"EK Sound" <spamnot.info@eksoundNO.com> wrote in message
>> >>>>news:43b952b4$1@linux...
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>ME does NOT play nice with NT/2000/XP for networking. You may =
want
> to
>> >>>>>look at going back to 98SE instead as this is way more network
>> >
>> > friendly.
>> >
>> >>>>>David.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>DJ wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>I just set up my network connections between both my DAWs. =
They are
>> >>>>
>> >>>>seeing
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>each other's HD's and I have unrestricted sharing set. =
However, I
>> >
>> > can't
>> >
>> >>>>>>transfer files from my Paris DAW anymore. For some reason, =
even
>> >
>> > though
>> >
>> >>>>the
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>folders are set up for sharing, the sub directories and the =
folders
>> >>>>
>> >>>>within
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>these subdirectories have somehow been set to where I have to =
go
> into
>> >>>>
>> >>>>every
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>subdirectory level and set each folder to share. This machine =
is
>> >>
>> >>running
>> >>
>> >>>>>>Windows ME. I have literally hundreds of subdirectories and =
sub-sub
>> >>>>>>directories within my main directories. How could this =
happen?=20
>> >>>>>>Prior
>> >
>> > to
>> >
>> >>>>>>hooking up this new DAW, I just set my main directories to =
share on
>> >>
>> >>both
>> >>
>> >>>>>>machines and I could shuttle stuff back and forth all day =
long. The
>> >>>>
>> >>>>current
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>situation sucks most seriously..........(sigh)..........what =
else
> can
>> >>>>>>happen????.......wait.........don't answer that!!!!
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>
>=20
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What bugs me is the final fix is always =
the last=20
thing I think of...</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Aaron Allen" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:nospam@not_here.dude">nospam@not_here.dude</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A =
href=3D"news:43bb476f@linux">news:43bb476f@linux</A>...</DIV>Keep=20
notes bro, every time you build. Funny how those little snags are =
<BR>always=20
the ones that kick us in the sack for days until we cry like Homer =
<BR>"DOH"=20
and realize just what we forgot.<BR>AA<BR><BR><BR>"DJ" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net">animix_spam-this-ahole=
_@animas.net</A>>=20
wrote in message <BR><A=20
href=3D"news:43b985f7$1@linux">news:43b985f7$1@linux</A>...<BR>> =
Found the=20
problem. Didn't have the "allow users to change my files" <BR>>=20
settings<BR>> clicked on the SX computer so though I could transfer =
from=20
the SX DAw to <BR>> the<BR>> Paris DAW (backasswards from what I =
need to=20
be doing), I couldn't transfer<BR>> from the Paris DAw to the =
Cubase=20
DAW. Pilot error .......as usual.<BR>><BR>> Seems like I =
need to=20
build a DAW a week just to keep my syanpses firing<BR>> properly. =
When I go=20
for a couple of years, I forget one of the<BR>> 327443333333337892 =
simple=20
little things that are necessary to make this<BR>> =
happen.<BR>><BR>>=20
I did talk to Chris Ludwig earlier today. It ws gratifying to know=20
that<BR>> 99.9% of the wierdness I've experienced while building =
this DAW=20
has also<BR>> been encountered by others.<BR>><BR>> =
OK.......now=20
where was I????<BR>><BR>> ;o)<BR>&
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| Re: Pan Problem [message #61296 is a reply to message #61283] |
Wed, 14 December 2005 04:08   |
John [1]
 Messages: 2229 Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
gt;Tom</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE ></BLOCKQU=
OTE></BODY></HTML>
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I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area.
"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote in message =
news:43bc8e94@linux...
Kent,
I'm in the Boston area. I know there's a bay around here somewhere...
There's Tom Boyles and Tom Bancroft too.
The other Tom
"RK" <kent510745@hotmail.com> wrote in message =
news:43bc836c@linux...
Cool, I'll give that a try.
Tom, didn't you used to be down in the Bay Area? I'm just getting =
back into Paris, but I thought you were trying to get a Bay Area user =
group going a couple years back. =20
Kent
"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote in message =
news:43bc8234@linux...
RK,
I've never used an out of phase signal for this purpose. I have
used something similar though. Copy lead vocal track to an
adjacent channel, pan each hard lft-rt, move the left track a =
millisecond or
even less back in time. The vocal should widen without sounding
processed. Keep their faders equal level. Your ear will =
naturally hear the
earlier track (lft) first and perceive that it's louder. If you =
feel that's disconcerting=20
try raising the right to level it out. This may decrease the =
effectiveness of the=20
process though.
Another way to get it to sound more present is to double
compress the track with comps in series but only reducing by 2 or =
3db each.
Sometimes a third comp is needed along with level automation. The =
idea
is to not hear pumping but have a fairly steady state level to the =
vocal.
This will allow you to get it to ride on top of the mix without =
jumping out
to bite you.
"RK" <kent510745@hotmail.com> wrote in message =
news:43bc7a43@linux...
Trying to get lead vocals to jump out of the mix and I remember =
a trick
listed somewhere telling you to copy a vocal track to a =
different track, pan
tracks left and right, then reverse the phase on the second =
track and slowly
bring the fader on the second track to meet the other track =
fader at 0.
Seemed to work, but the effects seemed to cancel each other out. =
Does
anyone use this, a
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| Re: Pan Problem [message #61302 is a reply to message #61296] |
Wed, 14 December 2005 06:13   |
Kim W
Messages: 165 Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
l track to a =
different track, pan<BR>tracks left and right, then reverse the =
phase on=20
the second track and slowly<BR>bring the fader on the second =
track to=20
meet the other track fader at 0.<BR>Seemed to work, but the =
effects=20
seemed to cancel each other out. Does<BR>anyone use this, =
and if=20
so, how do you get the FX to not whack each =
other<BR>out?<BR><BR><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>RK,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Only apply effects to the =
+phase=20
track.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
=
size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE ></BLOCKQU=
OTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_00AC_01C61166.41E5E680--Right at a thousand for a Paris III, no mention of software though. I left
a review.
E
"RK" <kent510745@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:43bc7d52@linux...
> Can't get to the address. Maybe they sold it! How much did they want for
> it?
>
> Kent
>
> "Chris Wargo" <na@na.na> wrote in message news:43bc5bcf$1@linux...
> >
> > Haven't seen one of these new in a while...
> >
> > http://www.music123.com/Ensoniq-PARIS3-i228172.music
>
>Hello Jim,
Welcome to our neck of the woods. The easiest thing to try is cooling,
open the case and put a fan on high. Test your Paris setup and push it.
It is probably heat and a weak power supply. 450 watts or so should do
the trick.
Regards,
El Miguel
"jim" <jim@redgateguitars.com> wrote in message news:43bbd330@linux...
> Thanks for all the suggestions guys.... I will give a few things a go and
> see what works.. Seems the first thing to try is the cooling... I do have
> the computer in a rack and the ventilation may be inhibited so this will
be
> easy to try....and Rob... the clicks never happen in the same place for me
> either.....always random... I'll check out the ram and native plugs...if
the
> cooling doesn't help. I'm only running one EDS card too. My computer is
> ancient.... I've not touched it as it is reliable but it may be time for
> another....
> Thanks for your input everybody......I'll give it all a try,
>
> BTW I had an interesting glitch on my system...wonder if anyone has had a
> similar experience...Paris started to hang up the computer on loading when
> it got to initialising the effects. I tried everything for a week but
> couldn't work out what was happening....and couldn't load Paris...Must
have
> rebooted the computer 50 times! Well finally worked out that when I
> installed a DVD burner about two weeks previously, the disc that came with
> it updated my Direct X to the latest version without notifying me! All was
> fine for a while so I didn't suspect anything...I picked it up by chance
> after many hours of fiddling with the system. Apparently it is not
possible
> to revert back to another earlier version but when I disabled direct X and
> turned it back on, Paris loaded again!!! Well its happened once again in
the
> last 6 months but now I know what to do ...
>
> Jim
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