Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » What else is there?
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| Re: What else is there? [message #61060 is a reply to message #61059] |
Wed, 07 December 2005 09:53   |
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John [1]
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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n fact, I try to stay away from automation because of this
> reason.
> >>>>
> >>>>There
> >>>>
> >>>>>may be an easy way to "edit" the automation, but I haven't figured
> >
> > it
> >
> >>>out.
> >>>
> >>>>> I just try to stay away from it. Some day I may delve into that
> >>
> >>learning
> >>
> >>>>>process... lol. I am old school. Just use Paris for basic
> recording,
> >>>>
> >>>>mixing....
> >>>>
> >>>>> thanks in advance... and Happy New Year (2006)!
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >Hello
I have a 2 EDS card Paris System and a Mec. with no extra cards in it
running on a Macintosh
I would like to know if it is possible to route Channel one to the Digital
out
and send it to my other computer, process it and send back to the Digital
in and route it back into channel one
if not how do I get any channel routed to an external device and back into
PARIS
Thanks
CliffordYes, all Digi and M-Audio products can be used in vst applictions.
John <no@no.com> wrote:
>But how much money is it? And can it use VSTs ?
>
>LaMont wrote:
>> Hey John,
>>
>> I don't really know if LE has PDC, HD does. You can get 16 i/os in LE
with
>> the Follwoing Products:
>>
>> -Digi 002(Rack)or not
>> -M-Audio Project Mix I/O
>> -FireWire 1814
>>
>> All of the above units have a additional Adat ports. That way you can
add
>> 8 channels of I/O of your choice.
>> LaMont
>>
>> John <no@no.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Does PT LE have autocompensation for plugs? How much can I get 16 I/Os
>>
>>
>>>for ?
>>>
>>>LaMont wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hey guys,
>>>>
>>>>I know that this is an old thread, but I have
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| Re: What else is there? [message #61062 is a reply to message #61059] |
Wed, 07 December 2005 11:17 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
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Senior Member |
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bit
>>
>> floating
>>
>>>>point mixer..
>>>>
>>>>"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Yukkk,
>>>>>Don't do it..PT I mean.
>>>>>I've just been playing with PT M-Powered 6.8, using my Delta 1010, and
>>
>> I
>>
>>>>
>>>>>have to say...I don't like it.
>>>>>The interface is (IMNSHO), horrible, confusing, and convoluted.
>>>>>Moves that come easily in Paris, and more easily in Nuendo, are tiresome
>>>>
>>>>in
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>PT, apart from the reagon tool...taht has always been good, right from
>>
>> the
>>
>>>>
>>>>>Session 8 days, but not much else.
>>>>>And..it only plays .MOV video files, which in my case is a no-no, (the
>>
>> full
>>
>>>>
>>>>>TDM version may play the others but I don't think so).
>>>>>To top it off, playing one of my projects from Nuendo, (reassembled),
>>
>> it
>>
>>>>
>>>>>didn't have the "life" that the original had, by a long shot.
>>>>>I repeat...don't go there, Jeff......
>>>>>--
>>>>>Martin Harrington
>>>>>www.lendanear-sound.com
>>>>>
>>>>>"jef knight" <thestudio@allknightmusic.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:436fce7a$1@linux...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I just read the doc, thanks for posting the link. Much of it is quite
>>
>>
>>>>>>interesting and just as much is confusing.
>>>>>>I didn't know tdm systems sounded gnarly, never having worked with
one.
>>>>
>>>>At
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>what track count would they sonically crap out?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If I can't get some of my tedious little troubles with paris resolved
&g
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| Re: What else is there? [message #61063 is a reply to message #61062] |
Wed, 07 December 2005 11:24 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
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Senior Member |
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t;>>>
>>>>I'm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>considering switching to protools.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>jef
>>>>>>
>>>>>>DJ wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://akwww.digidesign.com/support/docs/WhitePaper_48BitMix er.pdf
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Any comments? It appears to me that the signals are recorded at 24
>>>>>>>bit, then processed at whatever bit rate the plugin on the channel
has,
>>>>>>>including dither, or not, then reprocessed to 24 bit, then these channels
>>>>>>>are summed. I'm no guru when it comes to this stuff, but I get this
>>
>>
>>>>>>>feeling
>>>>>>>that this reprocessing *per channel* is the reason the TDM systems
seem
>>>>
>>>>to
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>start sounding gnarly as more and more tracks are summed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>Hey DJ(and family)!!
Happy New Year as well...
My findings are real world mixing situations. I'm not saying that you can't
get a great mix on SX/Nuendo, rather, it's just a lot of massaging here and
there. thus making the mixing experience painful. Unlike our beloved Paris
and Pro-Tools where just bringing up the faders and paning sounds like a
prety good mix. That's all :)
When Digi purchased M-Audio, that was monumental. They covered evry base
with that purchase. They can play in the SX, Logic, Sonar world and still
enabling the M-audio customer access to Pro-Tools LE (M-Powered)..
Take care,
LaMont
"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>I agree that the new HD systems sound good and I always thought that the
LE
>systems sounded better than the TDM systems. The PT environment has come
a
>long way, for sure. As for 32 bit float native systems, I've yet to do a
>complete mix in Cubase SX. I still stream my tracks over a digital matrix
>into Paris for summing. I'm hoping to take this to a new level in some
>respects now that I've got a dual core processior system for my SX rig.
Stay
>tuned for the details.
>
>Happy new year LaMont ;o)
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:43bab6aa$1@linux...
>>
>> Hey John,
>>
>> I don't really know if LE has PDC, H
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| Re: What else is there? [message #61075 is a reply to message #61059] |
Wed, 07 December 2005 13:39 |
Mark McDermott
Messages: 204
Registered: February 2006
Location: Portland, OR
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Senior Member |
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your Paris SPDIF out with a short cable. Go back to the Patch Bay.
In the Patch Bay, connect the "Mixer Insert" SEND of the source channel
for the bounce to the left SPDIF output (dL) on your 442 or MEC. Connect
the SPDIF left input (dL) back to the same channel's "Mixer Insert"
Return to complete the loop. Now connect the same left SPDIF output to
the "Submixer Input" of the Destination channel you want to
bounce/record to. Select "External" on the EDS insert on the source channel.
Enable Record on the Destination channel. That's it. Record away. You
can use your mixer normally while you bounce with no ill effect. And in
a case of good fortune, since the EDS inserts are after the native
inserts, any active plugins will be printed while bouncing. Great for
rendering AutoTune or various other plugin settings for different song
sections. For the price of time and disk space, you have unlimited plugins.
Example. You have a track on track 10 and you want to render this to
track 11. In the Patchbay:
Mixer-A channel 11 connects to MEC-Master-A Digital In Left
MEC-Master-A Digital In Left connects to Mixer-A-Insert Return10
MEC-Master-A Digital Out Left connects to Mixer-A-Insert Send10
Select "External" on the EDS insert on the source channel.
Clifford Coulter wrote:
> Hello
>
> I have a 2 EDS card Paris System and a Mec. with no extra cards in it
> running on a Macintosh
> I would like to know if it is possible to route Channel one to the Digital
> out
> and send it to my other computer, process it and send back to the Digital
> in and route it back into channel one
>
> if not how do I get any channel routed to an external device and back into
> PARIS
>
> Thanks
>
> Clifford
>I did the DAW summing CD thingy from what's his name in Nashville and could
find basically zero difference in anything. Maybe I'm deaf, but if you were
to double blind me I don't think I could pick out individual mixes consistently.
Since that was (if I recall) a 24 track mix that was big and loud and R&B/rock/gospel
I would think that would argue against this idea. However, it's a little
like the audiophile world sometimes where when the tests seem to disprove
personal experience the test is faulted instead of the experience. That's
fine, ears are very fine instruments and some are just better than others.
That said, I now work a good bit of my time in the finance world where fortunes
are made and lost according to the certitude of people in their experiences
or mathmatical models. Over time this has lead me to believe more in emperical
results than my experience. So if I do my own blind tests with the Nashville
CD and can't generate statistically significant data that DAWs sound different
then *I* will believe they sound the same. This could mean a flawed test
or flawed ears but that's my belief until someone can present me with more
convincing data.
But hey, that's just me. I've also done mixes of 30+ track
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| Re: What else is there? [message #61076 is a reply to message #61070] |
Wed, 07 December 2005 13:42 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
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s in SX and think
they sound quite nice.
TCB
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>Hey guys,
>
>I know that this is an old thread, but I have to disagree with assessments
>on Pro Tools sound quality.
>
>First, I mix with Pro Tools HD at our Church's studio for major release
Gospel
>Cds. Pro Tools HD sounds wonderful with low and high track counts and ITB
>(in the Box) or summed to the SSL,
>
>At my home studio, I have PT LE & Nuendo and while I love Nuendo's elequent
>editing and nice soft sound, it's 32 bit floating mixer in a major pain
in
>!@# to mix aggresive Rock, R &B, Hip hop with. Onthe other hand, those
same
>mixes done in PT LE, have that sparkle and width. In Nuendo, after 30 tracks,
>things start's getting "smearded" and tracks levels tends to get lost or
>they don't sit right.
>
>However, in PT Le, (same songs, tracks are not smeared, levels stay intacked,
>and the overall mix sounds very professional, just like mixes in Paris..
>
>Some local Engineer friends in the area( Motown), have been in discussions
>about the state of current DAWs and what's working and what's not. Opinions
>varied,but the one constant opinion that was stated was how dificult it
was
>to mix in Cubase and Nuendo on mixes over 30 tracks. No matter what i/o
converters(Apogee,Lucid,Motu,
>RME) mixing Rock , R&B, Hip-Hop is a dificult chore in SX/Nuendo..Where
>as mixing in Paris and Pro Tools is not..
>Hey,Just one Engineer's opinon.
>
>P.S
>Jsut for geekdum sakes, the new Sonar 5 uses a newly coded 64 to 32bit
floating
>point mixer..
>
>"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>Yukkk,
>>Don't do it..PT I mean.
>>I've just been playing with PT M-Powered 6.8, using my Delta 1010, and
I
>
>>have to say...I don't like it.
>>The interface is (IMNSHO), horrible, confusing, and convoluted.
>>Moves that come easily in Paris, and more easily in Nuendo, are tiresome
>in
>>PT, apart from the reagon tool...taht has always been good, right from
the
>
>>Session 8 days, but not much else.
>>And..it only plays .MOV video files, which in my case is a no-no, (the
full
>
>>TDM version may play the others but I don't think so).
>>To top it off, playing one of my projects from Nuendo, (reassembled), it
>
>>didn't have the "life" that the original had, by a long shot.
>>I repeat...don't go there, Jeff......
>>--
>>Martin Harrington
>>www.lendanear-sound.com
>>
>>"jef knight" <thestudio@allknightmusic.com> wrote in message
>>news:436fce7a$1@linux...
>>>I just read the doc, thanks for posting the link. Much of it is quite
>>>interesting and just as much is confusing.
>>> I didn't know tdm systems sounded gnarly, never having worked with one.
>At
>>> what track count would they sonically crap out?
>>>
>>> If I can't get some of my tedious little troubles with paris resolved
>I'm
>>> considering switching to protools.
>>>
>>> jef
>>>
>>> DJ wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://akwww.digidesign.com/support/docs/WhitePaper_48BitMix er.pdf
>>>>
>>>>Any comments? It appears to me that the signals are recorded at 24
>>>>bit, then processed at whatever bit rate the plugin on the channel has,
>>>>including dither, or not, then reprocessed to 24 bit, then these channels
>>>>are summed. I'm no guru when it comes to this stuff, but I get this
>>>>feeling
>>>>that this reprocessing *per channel* is the reason the TDM systems seem
>to
>>>>start sounding gnarly as more and more tracks are summed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>I've got that CD too (I bought all of the 3Daudio CD's a while back.). On
the summing CD I accurately picked the Paris mix, first listen. I was
surprised by this. Then,while later I got a friend to shuffle them around
and did another listening and I could discern differences, but couldn't
really say that one sounded so much better than the others. The AD
c
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| Re: What else is there? [message #61086 is a reply to message #61063] |
Wed, 07 December 2005 15:56 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
|
Senior Member |
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gt; > > by
> > >
> > >>>>this.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> In fact, I try to stay away from automation because of
> this
> > reason.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>There
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>may be an easy way to "edit" the automation, but I
> haven't figured
> > >
> > > it
> > >
> > >>>out.
> > >>>
> > >>>>> I just try to stay away from it. Some day I may delve
> into that
> > >>
> > >>learning
> > >>
> > >>>>>process... lol. I am old school. Just use Paris for basic
> > recording,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>mixing....
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> thanks in advance... and Happy New Year (2006)!
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>
> > >Good Post Thad..
My point was not to slam SX/Nuendo,but to say that:
-Pro Toools Sounds good if not great.
-(To Me) I have to work harder to get good mixes out of SX/Nuendo. The mixes
end up sound ing great, but the work involved is not as easy(To me) get maximum
results.
Take care
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>I did the DAW summing CD thingy from what's his name in Nashville and could
>find basically zero difference in anything. Maybe I'm deaf, but if you were
>to double blind me I don't think I could pick out individual mixes consistently.
>Since that was (if I recall) a 24 track mix that was big and loud and R&B/rock/gospel
>I would think that would argue against this idea. However, it's a little
>like the audiophile world sometimes where when the tests seem to disprove
>personal experience the test is faulted instead of the experience. That's
>fine, ears are very fine instruments and some are just better than others.
>
>
>That said, I now work a good bit of my time in the finance world where fortunes
>are made and lost according to the certitude of people in their experiences
>or mathmatical models. Over time this has lead me to believe more in emperical
>results than my experience. So if I do my own blind tests with the Nashville
>CD and can't generate statistically significant data that DAWs sound different
>then *I* will believe they sound the same. This could mean a flawed test
>or flawed ears but that's my belief until someone can present me with more
>convincing data.
>
>But hey, that's just me. I've also done mixes of 30+ tracks in SX and think
>they sound quite nice.
>
>TCB
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>
>>Hey guys,
>>
>>I know that this is an old thread, but I have to disagree with assessments
>>on Pro Tools sound quality.
>>
>>First, I mix with Pro Tools HD at our Church's studio for major release
>Gospel
>>Cds
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| Re: What else is there? [message #61092 is a reply to message #61059] |
Wed, 07 December 2005 18:45 |
emarenot
Messages: 345
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
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;>>
>>>
>>>>for ?
>>>>
>>>>LaMont wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Hey guys,
>>>>>
>>>>>I know that this is an old thread, but I have to disagree with
>>>>>assessments
>>>>>on Pro Tools sound quality.
>>>>>
>>>>>First, I mix with Pro Tools HD at our Church's studio for major release
>>>
>>>Gospel
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Cds. Pro Tools HD sounds wonderful with low and high track counts and
>>>
>>>ITB
>>>
>>>
>>>>>(in the Box) or summed to the SSL,
>>>>>
>>>>>At my home studio, I have PT LE & Nuendo and while I love Nuendo's
>>>>>elequent
>>>>>editing and nice soft sound, it's 32 bit floating mixer in a major pain
>>>
>>>in
>>>
>>>
>>>>>!@# to mix aggresive Rock, R &B, Hip hop with. Onthe other hand, those
>>>
>>>same
>>>
>>>
>>>>>mixes done in PT LE, have that sparkle and width. In Nuendo, after 30
>>>
>>>tracks,
>>>
>>>
>>>>>things start's getting "smearded" and tracks levels tends to get lost
>>>
>>>or
>>>
>>>
>>>>>they don't sit right.
>>>>>However, in PT Le, (same songs, tracks are not smeared, levels stay
>>>>>intacked,
>>>>>and the overall mix sounds very professional, just like mixes in Paris..
>>>>>
>>>>>Some local Engineer friends in the area( Motown), have been in
>>>>>discussions
>>>>>about the state of current DAWs and what's working and what's not.
>>>>>Opinions
>>>>>varied,but the one constant opinion that was stated was how dificult it
>>>
>>>was
>>>
>>>
>>>>>to mix in Cubase and Nuendo on mixes over 30 tracks. No matter what i/o
>>>
>>>converters(Apogee,Lucid,Motu,
>>>
>>>
>>>>>RME) mixing Rock , R&B, Hip-Hop is a dificult chore in SX/Nuendo..Where
>>>>>as mixing in Paris and Pro Tools is not.. Hey,Just one Engineer's
>>>>>opinon.
>>>>>P.S
>>>>>Jsut for geekdum sakes, the new Sonar 5 uses a newly coded 64 to 32bit
>>>
>>>floating
>>>
>>>
>>>>>point
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| Re: What else is there? [message #61102 is a reply to message #61085] |
Thu, 08 December 2005 01:58 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
;>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> what track count would they sonically crap out?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I can't get some of my tedious little troubles with paris
>>>>>>>> resolved
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> considering switching to protools.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> jef
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> DJ wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://akwww.digidesign.com/support/docs/WhitePaper_48BitMix er.pdf
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Any comments? It appears to me that the signals are recorded at 24
>>>>>>>>> bit, then processed at whatever bit rate the plugin on the
>>>>>>>>> channel has,
>>>>>>>>> including dither, or not, then reprocessed to 24 bit, then
>>>>>>>>> these channels
>>>>>>>>> are summed. I'm no guru when it comes to this stuff, but I get
>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> feeling
>>>>>>>>> that this reprocessing *per channel* is the reason the TDM
>>>>>>>>> systems seem
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> start sounding gnarly as more and more tracks are summed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>
>>So I got the two cards hooked up (I don't necessarily need 32 channels, but
want extra FX resources) and I want to load FX up on the global inserts
(card A) and record on card B (with various compressors, FX, etc. and lots
of resource room.) I understand the global FX are assigned to card A, but
then I can't record to card B (sumbix 2 where my per channel compression
is.) If I assign the submix to different cards, it doesn't matter because
now submix two is card A and there are no resources left for the global
inserts. Of course, now submix one has all kinds of resources, but I can't
record to it. Is this a Catch-22? Am I just an idiot? (ok, don't answer
that!)
Do you have to be happy with the resources on the card you are recording
with (both mixer and global inserts) as there is no sharing of resources?
Thanks
KentIt's not just a control surface...it's also got (unnecessary for me)
preamps. I've been considering moving on from my Houston controller to
something a bit more functional, but I don't need the preamps. For $1200.00,
this looks like a lot more in the way of a controller...
http://www.tascam.com/Products/US-2400.html
;o)
"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:43bb11a2@linux...
> very nice, it looks like th
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| Re: What else is there? [message #61111 is a reply to message #61102] |
Thu, 08 December 2005 08:38 |
EK Sound
Messages: 939
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
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/>
> >>>>>>>considering switching to protools.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>jef
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>DJ wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> http://akwww.digidesign.com/support/docs/WhitePaper_48BitMix er.pdf
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Any comments? It appears to me that the signals are recorded at 24
> >>>>>>>>bit, then processed at whatever bit rate the plugin on the channel
> >>>>>>>>has,
> >>>>>>>>including dither, or not, then reprocessed to 24 bit, then these
> >>>>>>>>channels
> >>>>>>>>are summed. I'm no guru when it comes to this stuff, but I get
this
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>feeling
> >>>>>>>>that this reprocessing *per channel* is the reason the TDM systems
> >>>>>>>>seem
> >>>>>
> >>>>>to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>start sounding gnarly as more and more tracks are summed.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >
> >Anyone ever get this working? This is all the notes I have:
Attack=1.5ms Release=150ms. Knee behaviour MUST be operated by the EQ
(max 2 Bands) forcing the compressor to behave in "vintage" mode.You
just have to figure out the ratio and the frequencies in the EQ.
The compressors behaviour WILL get it's character form the Eq curves.You need 1 mec per submix, otherwise you have to swap them around for
recording. Also use Virtual submixes if you need to playback more
submixes than you have EDS cards.
Throw that MEC around. This is a REALLY QUICK way to throw your MEC and
Patchbay from submix to submix. With practice you can do it in less
than 10 seconds. Need 16 more tracks? Throw that MEC around.
How to move your MEC from submix to submix for a 2 card system.
------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------
In this example, the MEC is tied to EDS card 1 and is assigned to submix
1 with EDS card 2 assigned to submix 2.
Open Master Mixer.
Assign submix 1 card A to virtual ***. This disconnects EDS card 1 from
submix 1
Assign submix 2 card B to card A. This assigns the MEC and EDS card 1
to submix 2.
Assign submix 1 to card B.
This allows 1 to be fully functional and tied to EDS card 2. Make sure
to turn CARD back on from Virtual.
To revert to the default setup.
Assign submix 1 card B to virtual ***. This disconnects EDS card 2 from
submix 1
Assign submix 2 card A to card B. This assigns the MEC and EDS card 2
to submix 2.
Assign submix 1 to card A.
This puts submix 1 back on card A. Make sure to turn CARD back on from
Virtual.
------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------
How to move your MEC from submix to submix for a 1 card system.
------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------
In this example, the MEC is tied to EDS card 1 and is assigned to submix 1.
Open Master Mixer.
Assign submix 1 card A to virtual. This disconnects EDS card 1 from
submix 1
Assign submix 2 card A. This assigns the MEC and EDS card 1 to
submix 2.
To revert to the default setup.
Assign submix 2 to virtual. This disconnects EDS card 2 from submix 1
Assign submix 1 to card A. This assigns the MEC and EDS card 1 back
to submix 1.
Make sure to turn CARD back on from Virtual.
RK wrote:
> So I got the two cards hooked up (I don't necessarily need 32 channels, but
> want extra FX resources) and I want to load FX up on the glob
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