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Anyone want a little owl? [message #58746] Tue, 04 October 2005 17:13 Go to next message
Deej [1] is currently offline  Deej [1]   UNITED STATES
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
Senior Member
> *mixphat thing going*.
> >
> > I swear guys.......this sounds better to my ears than all of the
1,000,000
> > gobazzillion plugin options I have available when using the SX rig
during
> > mixdown.
> >
> > It's pretty minimalist stuff to begin with......acous
Re: Anyone want a little owl? [message #58747 is a reply to message #58746] Tue, 04 October 2005 17:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
uptown jimmy is currently offline  uptown jimmy   UNITED STATES
Messages: 441
Registered: September 2005
Senior Member
tic rythym guitar,
> > acoustic lead guitar, fiddle, electric bass and acoustic drum
> > kit........but
> > that seems to be all I do these days anyway.
> >
> > Sometimes less is truly more.
> >
> > Deej
> >
> >
>
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_005F_01C5DD70.7832ADB0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dale and Cujo,
Heres what I can tell you about the 46Ls:

I haven't any ribbons to AB them with. My experience with
Beyer M-160s was less than stellar so I am certainly
Re: Anyone want a little owl? [message #58748 is a reply to message #58747] Tue, 04 October 2005 17:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deej [1] is currently offline  Deej [1]   UNITED STATES
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
Senior Member
biased.
The information I got from Jon at Shiny Box is that the Lundahls make =
the
mics more clear from top to bottom. I know John Macy is preferring the =
standard
46s over his Royer 121s on e. gtrs. I am going to hammer
them tonight with some crunch guitars for yours and my benefit.
I'll A-B them with a 57, 421 414 so you have some basis for my
comments. I'll gain match too using the same pre.

Maybe I'll post a short mp3 too. It's so subjective with all the =
variables.
I'll give you my gut feeling though.
Tom

"cujo" <chris@nospamapplemanstudio.com> wrote in message =
news:4365146f$1@linux...


I saw a pair of the SE ribbons at a dealer.=20
They do look really well constructed, and I guess they are supposed to =
be
a tad more airy than the Royer. They aint super cheap though as are =
the shiny..
I really do want to know about the diff in the tranny of the Shiny box =
mics,
I am thinking a pair of these may fit the bill as room mics. Of course =
you
afiten get what you pay for
I also want to know how they sound on a crunchy master gain marshall.

I heard a c
wrong owl [message #58749 is a reply to message #58748] Tue, 04 October 2005 17:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deej [1] is currently offline  Deej [1]   UNITED STATES
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
Senior Member
lip of DJ's gemini in action, how does the 5000 compare?


"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>I can't wait to give one of these SE ribbons a try. I'm very =
impressed with
>the SE stuff. We just used a matched pair of SE3's on some guitar =
overdubs.
>We compared them to a matched pair of Neumann KM 184's and a pair of =
AKG
>C460B's before we committed to them. The SE3's sound great. I think =
this
>company is hitting some home runs with some high quality products at =
very
>good prices.
>
>Deej
>
>"Dale" <dalebradleycello@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:4364187c$1@linux...
>>
>> A buncha questions about these "ShinyBox" mics I hear tell of....
>>
>> So how does the ShinyBox sound compared with Beyer M160 & Royer =
(both
of
>> which I have used)? Does a $310 mic (46L) really outperform a =
Royer?!?
>>
>> I just scanned the shinybox.com, but didn't see much description of =
the
>practical
>> difference between the 46, 46C, & 46L except about the =
transformers. How
>> are the spendier ones better?
>>
>> I don't suppose anyone has got one of the new SE Electronics Ribbon =
mics
>> to report on? I have one of their tube mics (SE 5000) which I like =
a lot.
>>
>> thanks,
>> Dale
>>
>>
>>
>> "J
Re: wrong owl [message #58750 is a reply to message #58749] Tue, 04 October 2005 17:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cujjo is currently offline  Cujjo   
Messages: 325
Registered: June 2007
Senior Member
ohn Macy" <spamlessjohn@johnmacy.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >Glad you like them, Tom. I think they are
>> >a fantastic value. I use my 46's over my Royers
>> >all the time, especially on electric guitars. I
>> >know Darren Rahn for the group here got a pair
>> >also and is verry pleased, too. Even the unmatched,
>> >stock transformer 46's are pretty nice :)
>> >
>> >
>> >"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Had a project that called for tenor sax, vocals
>> >>and a little egg shakin'.
>> >>
>> >>Used 'em on everything through the Precision 8
>> >>with really great results.
>> >>
>> >>The best words to describe them are natural and not hyped.
>> >>to remove the room coming off the backside of the figure 8.
>> >>Vocals didn't need compression. I was singing and watching
>> >>levels so that made this possible. They did seem slightly
>> >>compressed sounding though. Even when the wave got
>> >>squared off in Paris it didn't gack or even sound clipped.
>> >>I rerecorded those spots because they looked bad...
>> >>Odd but kinda cool. =3D20
>> >>
>> >>Vocals in the mix need lots of high end. Not a problem either.
>> >>It was a disco thing with that sizzly sound that only a condensor
>> >>should get. What I found was that these things took Paris' =
eq=3D20
>> >>sweetly. The esses didn't go over the edge and tone was smooth
>> >>as silk. I did use La2a's across them at mixdown though. The =
eggs
>> >>recorded nicely and again sounded natural. One on each side of =
the
mic.
>> >=3D
>> >>=3D20
>> >>
>> >>These are the first ribbons I've used except for some Beyer M160s =
way
=3D
Re: Anyone want a little owl? [message #58765 is a reply to message #58746] Wed, 05 October 2005 07:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
uptown jimmy is currently offline  uptown jimmy   UNITED STATES
Messages: 441
Registered: September 2005
Senior Member
ONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR >&gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT=20
face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt; &lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2&gt;At $700 or so =
for the=20
matched =3D<BR>&gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;pair.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;FONT=3D20<BR >&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2&gt;I think this is quite a bargain =
compared to=20
=3D<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR >&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&g
Re: Anyone want a little owl? [message #58771 is a reply to message #58765] Wed, 05 October 2005 10:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deej [1] is currently offline  Deej [1]   UNITED STATES
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
Senior Member
and receives audio data seamlessly, at least on submix1/MEC1 via
an aux send set to "external".

I am not, however, having any luck after that. No other Digipatch "patches"
seem to work, whether it's simultaneously patching the 2nd FX box to
submix2/MEC2, or switching the 1st FX box to another submix/MEC.

I have a three-card, three-MEC system, and thought I has sussed out the
layout of my physical cabling pretty well. Is there something I don't
understand about the Paris aux modules? I was under the impression that each
submix had its own complement of 8 aux modules, independently of the other
submixes...I'm probably being stupid somehow...

Confused,
JimmyIf you're streaming tracks through Cubase SX into Paris there are certain
advantages while mixing. I'm doing it with multiple hardware cards in Cubase
SX and multiple ADAT modules in Paris.
Wormhole might save a lot of hassle and a lot of hardware if it works. The
way I do it requires absolutely no nudging of tracks inside Paris because
they are all resident in SX.

The advantages have to do with the bussing options in SX and with the
automatic delay compensation. It's also just a little bit involved. I'm
posting up a word.doc explaining how it works.


"Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4365445d$1@linux...
> So, I don't think my question really go
Re: Anyone want a little owl? [message #58773 is a reply to message #58746] Wed, 05 October 2005 11:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
excelav is currently offline  excelav   
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
Senior Member
/> >> could help the cause for some people to read more about Wormhole's purpose
>> here.
>>
>> What's the use of routing Cubase or another DAW through Paris? Obviously,
>I
>> certainly know how Paris can help a recording, but what's another DAW
got
>to
>> do with it?
>>
>> thanks,
>> -Carl Amburn
>>
>>
>
>
>I'm thinking that this would be the ticket using very fast LAN. If
Dimitrios' findings are accurate, you could set up a mix template in Paris
with all tracks compensated using his various proggies and the FXPansion 3.3
and have low enough latency (40ms?) that you could use Paris automation
without a problem. If this was a rock solid situation, then Paris ADAT
modules wouldn't be necessary. I don't know if this would be possible to do
with something like the VStack.


"Neil" <OIYOIU@IOU.com> wrote in message news:436559d6$1@linux...
>
> OK here's a question for the Wormhole expersts here...
>
> What if I want to use a 2nd PC as an external piece of hardware
> exclusively for plugin's (kinda like if I had a TC Powercore or
> one of those Muse Receptor thingies); could I use Wormhole to
> do this, in terms of connecting the two PC's?
>
> Neil
>
>
> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
> >If you're streaming tracks through Cubase SX into Paris there are certain
> >advantages while mixing. I'm doing it with multiple hardware cards in
Cubase
> >SX and multiple ADAT modules in Paris.
> >Wormhole might save a lot of hassle and a lot of hardware if it works.
The
> >way I do it requires absolutely no nudging of tracks inside Paris because
> >they are all resident in SX.
> >
> >The advantages have to do with the bussing options in SX and with the
> >automatic delay compensation. It's also just a little bit involved. I'm
> >posting up a word.doc explaining how it works.
> >
> >
> >"Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:4365445d$1@linux...
> >> So, I don't think my question really got answered here, and I believe
> it
> >> could help the cause for some people to read more about Wormhole's
purpose
> >> here.
> >>
> >> What's the use of routing Cubase or another DAW through Paris?
Obviously,
> >I
> >> certainly know how Paris can help a recording, but what's another DAW
> got
> >to
> >> do with it?
> >>
> >> thanks,
> >> -Carl Amburn
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>Do you have the Digipatch software properly loaded so you can control the
routing from the Digipatch control panel on your computer desktop? If not,
this could be your problem......just a routing issue.......however, having
said this..........if you have done this and still aren't having any joy,
then it sounds to me like your MEC on Submix 2 isn't clocking properly. This
is the rub with using multiple MECs with an external clock. Sometimes there
a train wreck with the clocking.

Have you added the UseHouseSync=1 line to your Paris .cfg file?
Subsequently, have you opened Paris from the Paris.exe file in the Emu
directory in your Program Files directory, set the sync source to Word
Clock, then saved this to your Emu folder as defaultproject.ppj?

Also, always be sure to turn your house clock on before you power up your
MECs and then afterwards boot Paris from a desktop shortcut to the
defaultproject.ppj that you created and saved in the Emu directory.

You gotta' jump through a number of hoops and then it's not always reliable.
I always boot up my system at least two hours before a session to get it
stabilized before the talent shows up.

If you have done all of the above things and you're still not getting the
other MECs to clok to WC, launch your defaultproject.ppj and then toggle the
sync source to internal. Let it sit until it quits popping and
fussing........then toggle it back to WC and let it pop and fuss until it
settles down. You can usually tell when it's locked up because you will hear
a loud pop, then it stabilized. this can sometimes take 5-10 seconds to
happen.

Dontcha' just love Paris?

;o)



"uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:43654494@linux...
> Howdy.
>
> I'm in the process of getting my Paris rig patched digitally to my
Kurzweil
> FX boxes via an MAudio Digipatch.
>
> As far as I am able to tell, I have everything physically patched
properly.
> As a matter of fact, I get word-clock lock on both Kurzweil boxes from my
> Lucid master clock (via the SPDIF ins and outs on Paris), and the first FX
> box sends and receives audio data seamlessly, at least on submix1/MEC1 via
> an aux send set to "external".
>
> I am not, however, having any luck after that. No other Digipatch
"patches"
> seem to work, whether it's simultaneously patching the 2nd FX box to
> submix2/MEC2, or switching the 1st FX box to another submix/MEC.
>
> I have a three-card, three-MEC system, and thought I has sussed out the
> layout of my physical cabling pretty well. Is there something I don't
> understand about the Paris aux modules? I was under the impression that
each
> submix had its own complement of 8 aux modules, independently of the other
> submixes...I'm probably being stupid somehow...
>
> Confused,
> Jimmy
>
>In my latest sporadic visit to Parisland I stumbled across your post, Gene.

I hate to hear news like this.

My thoughts are with you.

-steve


rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>sorry gene, friends are hard to lose.
>
>On 30 Oct 2005 05:32:13 +1000, "gene lennon"
><glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Dave Townsend died this week in California. Dave was best know as the guitar
>>player in the platinum R&B group "surface", but Dave was also a talented
>>session musician, songwriter and producer. I co-wrote and co-produced several
>>tracks with Dave over the years.
>>Dave was a quiet person and a true gentleman, and he will be missed.
>>He was 50 years old.
>>Dave's father, (Ed Townsend) was also a well know songwriter who's songs
>>included Marvin Gaye's 'Let's Get It On.'
>>Dave collaborated with many Paris owners in the last few years, including
>>myself, David “Pic” Conley (also from Surface), Thurman Phillips, and Joshua
>>Thompson. He was a big believer in the “Paris sound.”
>>Gene
>"Neil" <OIYOIU@IOU.com> wrote:
>
>OK here's a question for the Wormhole expersts here...
>
>What if I want to use a 2nd PC as an external piece of hardware
>exclusively for plugin's (kinda like if I had a TC Powercore or
>one of those Muse Receptor thingies); could I use Wormhole to
>do this, in terms of connecting the two PC's?
>
>Neil

Yes, that is it’s most common use.
gOn 30 Oct 2005 05:32:13 +1000, "gene lennon"
<glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote:

>
>Dave Townsend died this week in California. Dave was best know as the guitar
>player in the platinum R&B group "surface", but Dave was also a talented
>session musician, songwriter and producer. I co-wrote and co-produced several
>tracks with Dave over the years.
>Dave was a quiet person and a true gentleman, and he will be missed.
>He was 50 years old.

My condolences, Gene. 50 is so young... so very close to my own
age...

That really sucks.

pabCool, one thing I really harp on wiht bands about guitars is less is more.
So many great guitar bands (Led Zep, The Who, zz Top, Hendix, and even more
modern stuff like The Smiths, or the Clash) did not use that JCM800 type
marshall sound but often used cleaner sounds and less wall of guitar overdubs
for sure than say Foo Fighters or something of that nature. so it seems that
many of the LDC's or even 57's can sound pretty abrasive with them, but these
High Gain amos can sound cool for sure, the ribbon may be just the trick.,I
know the 121s do ok for this, but I do think they sound at tad murky too.


"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>Dale and Cujo,
>Heres what I can tell you about the 46Ls:
>
>I haven't any ribbons to AB them with. My experience with
>Beyer M-160s was less than stellar so I am certainly biased.
>The information I got from Jon at Shiny Box is that the Lundahls make =
>the
>mics more clear from top to bottom. I know John Macy is preferring the
=
>standard
>46s over his Royer 121s on e. gtrs. I am going to hammer
>them tonight with some crunch guitars for yours and my benefit.
>I'll A-B them with a 57, 421 414 so you have some basis for my
>comments. I'll gain match too using the same pre.
>
>Maybe I'll post a short mp3 too. It's so subjective with all the =
>variables.
>I'll give you my gut feeling though.
>Tom
>
> "cujo" <chris@nospamapplemanstudio.com> wrote in message =
>news:4365146f$1@linux...
>
>
> I saw a pair of the SE ribbons at a dealer.=20
> They do look really well constructed, and I guess they are supposed to
=
>be
> a tad more airy than the Royer. They aint super cheap though as are =
>the shiny..
> I really do want to know about the diff in the tranny of the Shiny box
=
>mics,
> I am thinking a pair of these may fit the bill as room mics. Of course
=
>you
> afiten get what you pay for
> I also want to know how they sound on a crunchy master gain marshall.
>
> I heard a clip of DJ's gemini in action, how does the 5000 compare?
>
>
> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
> >I can't wait to give one of these SE ribbons a try. I'm very =
>impressed with
> >the SE stuff. We just used a matched pair of SE3's on some guitar =
>overdubs.
> >We compared them to a matched pair of Neumann KM 184's and a pair of
=
>AKG
> >C460B's before we committed to them. The SE3's sound great. I think
=
>this
> >company is hitting some home runs with some high quality products at
=
>very
> >good prices.
> >
> >Deej
> >
> >"Dale" <dalebradleycello@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:4364187c$1@linux...
> >>
> >> A buncha questions about these "ShinyBox" mics I hear tell of....
> >>
> >> So how does the ShinyBox sound compared with Beyer M160 & Royer =
>(both
> of
> >> which I have used)? Does a $310 mic (46L) really outperform a =
>Royer?!?
> >>
> >> I just scanned the shinybox.com, but didn't see much description of
=
>the
> >practical
> >> difference between the 46, 46C, & 46L except about the =
>transformers. How
> >> are the spendier ones better?
> >>
> >> I don't suppose anyone has got one of the new SE Electronics Ribbon
=
>mics
> >> to report on? I have one of their tube mics (SE 5000) which I like
=
>a lot.
> >>
> >> thanks,
> >> Dale
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> "John Macy" <spamlessjohn@johnmacy.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >Glad you like them, Tom. I think they are
> >> >a fantastic value. I use my 46's over my Royers
> >> >all the time, especially on electric guitars. I
> >> >know Darren Rahn for the group here got a pair
> >> >also and is verry pleased, too. Even the unmatched,
> >> >stock transformer 46's are pretty nice :)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>Had a project that called for tenor sax, vocals
> >> >>and a little egg shakin'.
> >> >>
> >> >>Used 'em on everything through the Precision 8
> >> >>with really great results.
> >> >>
> >> >>The best words to describe them are natural and not hyped.
> >> >>to remove the room coming off the backside of the figure 8.
> >> >>Vocals didn't need compression. I was singing and watching
> >> >>levels so that made this possible. They did seem slightly
> >> >>compressed sounding though. Even when the wave got
> >> >>squared off in Paris it didn't gack or even sound clipped.
> >> >>I rerecorded those spots because they looked bad...
> >> >>Odd but kinda cool. =3D20
> >> >>
> >> >>Vocals in the mix need lots of high end. Not a problem either.
> >> >>It was a disco thing with that sizzly sound that only a condensor
> >> >>should get. What I found was that these things took Paris' =
>eq=3D20
> >> >>sweetly. The esses didn't go over the edge and tone was smooth
> >> >>as silk. I did use La2a's across them at mixdown though. The =
>eggs
> >&
Re: wrong owl [message #58774 is a reply to message #58749] Wed, 05 October 2005 11:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike ClMike Claytor is currently offline  Mike ClMike Claytor
Messages: 52
Registered: July 2005
Member
gt; >>recorded nicely and again sounded natural. One on each side of =
>the
> mic.
> >> >=3D
> >> >>=3D20
> >> >>
> >> >>These are the first ribbons I've used except for some Beyer M160s
=
>way
> =3D
> >> >>back.
> >> >>These are floating my boat right now. I think they will rock on
=
>brass
> >> =3D
> >> >>and=3D20
> >> >>crunch guitar. I'll find out about that when a 7 horn band comes
=
>in
> =3D
> >> >>soon.
> >> >>They needed a lot of gain. I was afraid to get any closer than =
>about
> 4"
> >> >=3D
> >> >>from them.
> >> >>Delicate little buggers you know. Of course I used a popper =
>stopper
> for
> >> >=3D
> >> >>safety
> >> >>which darkens the sound a bit too.=3D20
> >> >>
> >> >>At $700 or so for the matched pair.I think this is quite a =
>bargain =3D
> >> >>compared to=3D20
> >> >>the R121s etc. The Lundahls are supposed to give them more =
>clarity
> =3D
> >> >>across the board.
> >> >>Natural is what I call them. Not a bad choice if your looking =
>for =3D
> >> >>ribbons.
> >> >>
> >> >>Thanks to John Macy for turning us on to them. Jon, the owner of
=
>Shiny
> >> =3D
> >> >>Box
> >> >>was very helpful throughout the buying process. He also took =
>great
> care
> >> >=3D
> >> >>in first
> >> >>matching mics then matching transformers then matching the mics =
>=3D
> >> >>w/transformers.
> >> >>Painstaking I would say. I know it took him at least a day or =
>so.
> >> >>Tom
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> >> >><HTML><HEAD>
> >> >><META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D
> >> >>charset=3D3Diso-8859-1">
> >> >><META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3D3DGENERATOR>
> >> >><STYLE></STYLE>
> >> >></HEAD>
> >> >><BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Had a project that called =
>for tenor
> =3D
> >> >>sax,=3D20
> >> >>vocals</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>and a little egg =
>shakin'.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Used 'em on everything =
>through the
> =3D
> >> >>Precision=3D20
> >> >>8</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>with really great =
>results.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>The best words to describe =
>=3D
> >> >>them are natural=3D20
> >> >>and not hyped.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Made the sax sound just like
=
>the =3D
> >> >>sax. Had to=3D20
> >> >>be fairly close</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>to remove the room coming =
>off the =3D
> >> >>backside of the=3D20
> >> >>figure 8.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Vocals didn't need =3D
> >> >>compression. I was=3D20
> >> >>singing and watching</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>levels so that made this =3D
> >> >>possible. They did=3D20
> >> >>seem slightly</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>compressed sounding though.
=
>Even =3D
> >> >>when the=3D20
> >> >>wave got</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>squared off in Paris it =
>didn't gack
> or
> >> >=3D
> >> >>even sound=3D20
> >> >>clipped.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>I rerecorded those spots =
>because they
> >> =3D
> >> >>looked=3D20
> >> >>bad...</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Odd but kinda cool. =
></FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Vocals in the mix need lots
=
>of high
> =3D
> >> >>end. Not=3D20
> >> >>a problem either.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>It was a disco thing with =
>that sizzly
> >> =3D
> >> >>sound that=3D20
> >> >>only a condensor</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>should get. What I found was
=
>that these
> >> >=3D
> >> >>things took=3D20
> >> >>Paris' eq </FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>sweetly. The esses didn't =
>go over
> =3D
> >> >>the=3D20
> >> >>edge and tone was smooth</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>as silk. I did use La2a's =
>across =3D
> >> >>them at=3D20
> >> >>mixdown though. The eggs</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>recorded nicely and again =
>sounded =3D
> >> >>natural. =3D20
> >> >>One on each side of the mic. </FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>These are the first ribbons
=
>I've used
> >> =3D
> >> >>except for=3D20
> >> >>some Beyer M160s way back.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>These are floating my boat =
>right =3D
> >> >>now. I think=3D20
> >> >>they will rock on brass and </FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>crunch guitar. I'll find =
>out =3D
> >> >>about=3D20
> >> >></FONT><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>that when a 7 horn band =
>comes in=3D20
> >> >>soon.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>They needed a lot of gain.
=
>I was =3D
> >> >>afraid to=3D20
> >> >>get any closer than about 4" from them.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Delicate little buggers you
=
>know.=20
> =3D
> >> >>Of course I=3D20
> >> >>used a popper stopper for safety</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>which darkens the sound a =
>bit too.
> =3D
> >> >></FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>At $700 or so for the =
>matched =3D
> >> >>pair.</FONT><FONT=3D20
> >> >>face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>I think this is quite a bargain =
>compared to =3D
> >> >></FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>the R121s etc. The Lundahls
=
>=3D
> >> >></FONT><FONT=3D20
> >> >>face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>are supposed to give them more clarity
=
>across
> >the=3D20
> >> >>board.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Natural is what I call them.
=
> =3D
> >> >></FONT><FONT=3D20
> >> >>face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Not a bad choice if your looking for =
>=3D
> >> >>ribbons.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Thanks to John Macy for =
>turning us
> on
> >> =3D
> >> >>to them. Jon,=3D20
> >> >>the owner of Shiny Box</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>was very helpful throughout
=
>the
> >buying=3D20
> >> >>process. He also took great care in first</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>matching mics then matching
=
>=3D
> >> >>transformers then=3D20
> >> >>matching the mics w/transformers.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Painstaking I would say. I
=
>know =3D
> >> >>it took him=3D20
> >> >>at least a day or so.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><HTML><HEAD>
><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR>
><STYLE></STYLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dale and Cujo,</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Heres what I can tell you about the=20
>46Ls:</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I haven't any ribbons to AB them =
>with.  My=20
>experience with</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Beyer M-160s was less than stellar so I
=
>am=20
>certainly biased.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The information </FONT><FONT =
>face=3DArial size=3D2>I=20
>got from Jon at Shiny Box is that the Lundahls make the</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>mics more clear from top to =
>bottom.  I know=20
>John Macy is </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>preferring the =
>standard</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>46s over his Royer 121s on e. =
>gtrs.  I am=20
>going to hammer</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>them tonight with some crunch guitars =
>for yours and=20
>my benefit.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'll A-B them with a 57, 421 414 so you
=
>have some=20
>basis for my</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>comments.  I'll gain match too =
>using the same=20
>pre.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Maybe I'll post a short mp3 too.  =
>It's so=20
>subjective with all the variables.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'll give you my gut feeling =
>though.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><BLOCKQUOTE=20
>style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> <DIV>"cujo" <<A=20
> =
>href=3D"mailto:chris@nospamapplemanstudio.com">chris@nospamapplemanstudio=
>.com</A>>=20
> wrote in message <A=20
> =
>href=3D"news:4365146f$1@linux">news:4365146f$1@linux</A>...</DIV><BR><BR>=
>I saw a=20
> pair of the SE ribbons at a dealer. <BR>They do look really well =
>constructed,=20
> and I guess they are supposed to be<BR>a tad more airy than the Royer.
=
>They=20
> aint super cheap though as are the shiny..<BR>I really do want to know
=
>about=20
> the diff in the tranny of the Shiny box mics,<BR>I am thinking a pair
=
>of these=20
> may fit the bill as room mics. Of course you<BR>afiten get what you =
>pay=20
> for<BR>I also want to know how they sound on a crunchy master gain=20
> marshall.<BR><BR>I heard a clip of DJ's gemini in action, how does the
=
>5000=20
> compare?<BR><BR><BR>"DJ" <<A=20
> =
>href=3D"mailto:animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net">animix_spam-this-ahole=
>_@animas.net</A>>=20
> wrote:<BR>>I can't wait to give one of these SE ribbons a try. I'm =
>very=20
> impressed with<BR>>the SE stuff. We just used a matched pair of =
>SE3's on=20
> some guitar overdubs.<BR>>We compared them to a matched pair of =
>Neumann KM=20
> 184's and a pair of AKG<BR>>C460B's before we committed to them. =
>The SE3's=20
> sound great.  I think this<BR>>company is hitting some home =
>runs with=20
> some high quality products at very<BR>>good=20
> prices.<BR>><BR>>Deej<BR>><BR>>"Dale" <<A=20
> =
>href=3D"mailto:dalebradleycello@yahoo.com">dalebradleycello@yahoo.com</A>=
>>=20
> wrote in =
>message<BR>>news:4364187c$1@linux...<BR>>><BR>>> A=20
> buncha questions about these "ShinyBox" mics I hear tell=20
> of....<BR>>><BR>>> So how does the ShinyBox sound compared =
>with=20
> Beyer M160 & Royer (both<BR>of<BR>>> which I have used)? =
>Does a $310=20
> mic (46L) really outperform a Royer?!?<BR>>><BR>>> I just =
>scanned=20
> the shinybox.com, but didn't see much description of=20
> the<BR>>practical<BR>>> difference between the 46, 46C, & =
>46L=20
> except about the transformers. How<BR>>> are the spendier ones=20
> better?<BR>>><BR>>> I don't suppose anyone has got one of =
>the new=20
> SE Electronics Ribbon mics<BR>>> to report on? I have one of =
>their tube=20
> mics (SE 5000) which I like a lot.<BR>>><BR>>> =
>thanks,<BR>>>=20
> Dale<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> "John Macy" =
><<A=20
> =
>href=3D"mailto:spamlessjohn@johnmacy.com">spamlessjohn@johnmacy.com</A>&g=
>t;=20
> wrote:<BR>>> ><BR>>> >Glad you like them, Tom.  =
>I think=20
> they are<BR>>> >a fantastic value.  I use my 46's over =
>my=20
> Royers<BR>>> >all the time, especially on electric =
>guitars. =20
> I<BR>>> >know Darren Rahn for the group here got a =
>pair<BR>>>=20
> >also and is verry pleased, too.  Even the =
>unmatched,<BR>>>=20
> >stock transformer 46's are pretty nice :)<BR>>> =
>><BR>>>=20
> ><BR>>> >"Tom Bruhl" <<A=20
> href=3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>>=20
> wrote:<BR>>> >><BR>>> >><BR>>> =
>>>Had a=20
> project that called for tenor sax, vocals<BR>>> >>and a =
>little egg=20
> shakin'.<BR>>> >><BR>>> >>Used 'em on =
>everything=20
> through the Precision 8<BR>>> >>with really great=20
> results.<BR>>> >><BR>>> >>The best words to =
>describe=20
> them are natural and not hyped.<BR>>> >>to remove the room =
>coming=20
> off the backside of the figure 8.<BR>>> >>Vocals didn't =
>need=20
> compression.  I was singing and watching<BR>>> =
>>>levels so=20
> that made this possible.  They did seem slightly<BR>>>=20
> >>compressed sounding though.  Even when the wave =
>got<BR>>>=20
> >>squared off in Paris it didn't gack or even sound =
>clipped.<BR>>>=20
> >>I rerecorded those spots because they looked =
>bad...<BR>>>=20
> >>Odd but kinda cool. =3D20<BR>>> >><BR>>>=20
> >>Vocals in the mix need lots of high end.  Not a problem=20
> either.<BR>>> >>It was a disco thing with that sizzly =
>sound that=20
> only a condensor<BR>>> >>should get. What I found was that =
>these=20
> things took Paris' eq=3D20<BR>>> >>sweetly.  The =
>esses didn't=20
> go over the edge and tone was smooth<BR>>> >>as =
>silk.  I did=20
> use La2a's across them at mixdown though.  The eggs<BR>>>=20
> >>recorded nicely and again sounded natural.  One on each =
>side of=20
> the<BR>mic.<BR>>> >=3D<BR>>> >>=3D20<BR>>>=20
> >><BR>>> >>These are the first ribbons I've used =
>except for=20
> some Beyer M160s way<BR>=3D<BR>>> >>back.<BR>>> =
>>>These=20
> are floating my boat right now.  I think they will rock on=20
> brass<BR>>> =3D<BR>>> >>and=3D20<BR>>> =
>>>crunch=20
> guitar.  I'll find out about that when a 7 horn band comes=20
> in<BR>=3D<BR>>> >>soon.<BR>>> >>They needed a =
>lot of=20
> gain.  I was afraid to get any closer than =
>about<BR>4"<BR>>>=20
> >=3D<BR>>> >>from them.<BR>>> >>Delicate =
>little=20
> buggers you know.  Of course I used a popper =
>stopper<BR>for<BR>>>=20
> >=3D<BR>>> >>safety<BR>>> >>which darkens =
>the sound a=20
> bit too.=3D20<BR>>> >><BR>>> >>At $700 or so =
>for the=20
> matched pair.I think this is quite a bargain =3D<BR>>> =
>>>compared=20
> to=3D20<BR>>> >>the R121s etc.  The Lundahls are =
>supposed to=20
> give them more clarity<BR>=3D<BR>>> >>across the =
>board.<BR>>>=20
> >>Natural is what I call them.  Not a bad choice if your =
>looking=20
> for =3D<BR>>> >>ribbons.<BR>>> >><BR>>>=20
> >>Thanks to John Macy for turning us on to them. Jon, the owner =
>of=20
> Shiny<BR>>> =3D<BR>>> >>Box<BR>>> >>was =
>very=20
> helpful throughout the buying process.  He also took=20
> great<BR>care<BR>>> >=3D<BR>>> >>in =
>first<BR>>>=20
> >>matching mics then matching transformers then matching the =
>mics=20
> =3D<BR>>> >>w/transformers.<BR>>> =
>>>Painstaking I would=20
> say.  I know it took him at least a day or so.<BR>>>=20
> >>Tom<BR>>> >><BR>>> >><BR>>>=20
> >><BR>>> >><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD =
>HTML 4.0=20
> Transitional//EN"><BR>>> =
>>><HTML><HEAD><BR>>>=20
> >><META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =
>=3D<BR>>>=20
> >>charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"><BR>>> >><META=20
> content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3D3DGENERATOR><BR>>> =
>
> >><STYLE></STYLE><BR>>>=20
> >></HEAD><BR>>> >><BODY=20
> bgColor=3D3D#ffffff><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =
>face=3D3DArial=20
> size=3D3D2>Had a project that called for tenor<BR>=3D<BR>>>=20
> >>sax,=3D20<BR>>>=20
> >>vocals</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>and a little =
>egg=20
> shakin'.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =
>>><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV><BR>>>=20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Used 'em on =
>everything=20
> through the<BR>=3D<BR>>> >>Precision=3D20<BR>>>=20
> >>8</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =
>>><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>with really great=20
> results.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =
>>><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV><BR>>>=20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>The best =
>words to=20
> describe =3D<BR>>> >>them are natural=3D20<BR>>> =
>>>and not=20
> hyped.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =
>>><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Made the sax sound just like the =
>=3D<BR>>>=20
> >>sax.  Had to=3D20<BR>>> >>be fairly=20
> close</FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =
>
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>to remove the room coming off the =
>=3D<BR>>>=20
> >>backside of the=3D20<BR>>> >>figure=20
> 8.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Vocals didn't need =3D<BR>>>=20
> >>compression.  I was=3D20<BR>>> >>singing and=20
> watching</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =
>>><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>levels so that made this =3D<BR>>>=20
> >>possible.  They did=3D20<BR>>> >>seem=20
> slightly</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =
>>><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>compressed sounding though.  Even =
>=3D<BR>>>=20
> >>when the=3D20<BR>>> >>wave=20
> got</FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>squared off in Paris it didn't =
>gack<BR>or<BR>>>=20
> >=3D<BR>>> >>even sound=3D20<BR>>>=20
> >>clipped.</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>I rerecorded =
>those spots=20
> because they<BR>>> =3D<BR>>> =
>>>looked=3D20<BR>>>=20
> >>bad...</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Odd but kinda =
>cool. =20
> </FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =
>face=3D3DArial=20
> size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV><BR>>> =
>>><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Vocals in the mix need lots of =
>high<BR>=3D<BR>>>=20
> >>end.  Not=3D20<BR>>> >>a problem=20
> either.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =
>>><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>It was a disco thing with that =
>sizzly<BR>>>=20
> =3D<BR>>> >>sound that=3D20<BR>>> >>only a=20
> condensor</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =
>>><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>should get. What I found was that =
>these<BR>>>=20
> >=3D<BR>>> >>things took=3D20<BR>>> =
>>>Paris' eq=20
> </FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =
>face=3D3DArial=20
> size=3D3D2>sweetly.  The esses didn't go =
>over<BR>=3D<BR>>>=20
> >>the=3D20<BR>>> >>edge and tone was=20
> smooth</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =
>>><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>as silk.  I did use La2a's across =
>=3D<BR>>>=20
> >>them at=3D20<BR>>> >>mixdown though.  The=20
> eggs</FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>recorded nicely and again sounded =
>=3D<BR>>>=20
> >>natural. =3D20<BR>>> >>One on each side of the =
>mic. =20
> </FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =
>face=3D3DArial=20
> size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV><BR>>> =
>>><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>These are the first ribbons I've =
>used<BR>>>=20
> =3D<BR>>> >>except for=3D20<BR>>> >>some Beyer =
>M160s way=20
> back.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =
>
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>These are floating my boat right =
>=3D<BR>>>=20
> >>now.  I think=3D20<BR>>> >>they will rock on =
>brass and=20
> </FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =
>face=3D3DArial=20
> size=3D3D2>crunch guitar.  I'll find out =3D<BR>>>=20
> >>about=3D20<BR>>> >></FONT><FONT =
>face=3D3DArial=20
> size=3D3D2>that when a 7 horn band comes in=3D20<BR>>>=20
> >>soon.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =
>>><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>They needed a lot of gain.  I was =
>=3D<BR>>>=20
> >>afraid to=3D20<BR>>> >>get any closer than about =
>4" from=20
> them.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =
>
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Delicate little buggers you know. =
><BR>=3D<BR>>>=20
> >>Of course I=3D20<BR>>> >>used a popper stopper for =
>
> safety</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =
>>><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>which darkens the sound a bit =
>too.<BR>=3D<BR>>>=20
> >></FONT></DIV><BR>>> =
>>><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV><BR>>>=20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>At $700 or so =
>for the=20
> matched =3D<BR>>> =
>>>pair.</FONT><FONT=3D20<BR>>>=20
> >>face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>I think this is quite a bargain =
>compared to=20
> =3D<BR>>> >></FONT></DIV><BR>>>=20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>the R121s =
>etc.  The=20
> Lundahls =3D<BR>>> =
>>></FONT><FONT=3D20<BR>>>=20
> >>face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>are supposed to give them more =
>clarity=20
> across<BR>>the=3D20<BR>>>=20
> >>board.</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Natural is =
>what I call=20
> them.  =3D<BR>>> =
>>></FONT><FONT=3D20<BR>>>=20
> >>face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Not a bad choice if your looking =
>for=20
> =3D<BR>>> >>ribbons.</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> =
>
> </DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial=20
> size=3D3D2>Thanks to John Macy for turning us<BR>on<BR>>> =
>=3D<BR>>>=20
> >>to them. Jon,=3D20<BR>>> >>the owner of Shiny=20
> Box</FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>was very helpful throughout=20
> the<BR>>buying=3D20<BR>>> >>process.  He also took =
>great=20
> care in first</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =
>>><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>matching mics then matching =
>=3D<BR>>>=20
> >>transformers then=3D20<BR>>> >>matching the mics=20
> w/transformers.</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Painstaking I =
>would=20
> say.  I know =3D<BR>>> >>it took him=3D20<BR>>> =
>>>at=20
> least a day or so.</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial=20
> size=3D3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> =
>
> </DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial=20
> size=3D3D2></FONT> =
></DIV></BODY></HTML><BR>>>=20
> >><BR>>> >><BR>>>=20
>><BR>><BR>><BR>></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
>
>"gene lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote:

>But the good news is that each number has a unique buzz, so you can learn
>to tell time by the sound your Strat makes.
>G

hahah! Good one.

DC

Sorry about your friend. My sister passed last year. 2 years
younger than me. Not yet 50...

It's the most amazing thing to live in a world where someone is
so clearly and unmistakably *missing*.

You know what I mean?

DCWhoa.

That is a few hoops there.

I'll give it all a try and get back atcha.

Jimmy

"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
news:43656037@linux...
> Do you have the Digipatch software properly loaded so you can control the
> routing from the Digipatch control panel on your computer desktop? If not,
> this could be your problem......just a routing issue.......however, having
> said this..........if you have done this and still aren't having any joy,
> then it sounds to me like your MEC on Submix 2 isn't clocking properly.
This
> is the rub with using multiple MECs with an external clock. Sometimes
there
> a train wreck with the clocking.
>
> Have you added the UseHouseSync=1 line to your Paris .cfg file?
> Subsequently, have you opened Paris from the Paris.exe file in the Emu
> directory in your Program Files directory, set the sync source to Word
> Clock, then saved this to your Emu folder as defaultproject.ppj?
>
> Also, always be sure to turn your house clock on before you power up your
> MECs and then afterwards boot Paris from a desktop shortcut to the
> defaultproject.ppj that you created and saved in the Emu directory.
>
> You gotta' jump through a number of hoops and then it's not always
reliable.
> I always boot up my system at least two hours before a session to get it
> stabilized before the talent shows up.
>
> If you have done all of the above things and you're still not getting the
> other MECs to clok to WC, launch your defaultproject.ppj and then toggle
the
> sync source to internal. Let it sit until it quits popping and
> fussing........then toggle it back to WC and let it pop and fuss until it
> settles down. You can usually tell when it's locked up because you will
hear
> a loud pop, then it stabilized. this can sometimes take 5-10 seconds to
> happen.
>
> Dontcha' just love Paris?
>
> ;o)
>
>
>
> "uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:43654494@linux...
> > Howdy.
> >
> > I'm in the process of getting my Paris rig patched digitally to my
> Kurzweil
> > FX boxes via an MAudio Digipatch.
> >
> > As far as I am able to tell, I have everything physically patched
> properly.
> > As a matter of fact, I get word-clock lock on both Kurzweil boxes from
my
> > Lucid master clock (via the SPDIF ins and outs on Paris), and the first
FX
> > box sends and receives audio data seamlessly, at least on submix1/MEC1
via
> > an aux send set to "external".
> >
> > I am not, however, having any luck after that. No other Digipatch
> "patches"
> > seem to work, whether it's simultaneously patching the 2nd FX box to
> > submix2/MEC2, or switching the 1st FX box to another submix/MEC.
> >
> > I have a three-card, three-MEC system, and thought I has sussed out the
> > layout of my physical cabling pretty well. Is there something I don't
> > understand about the Paris aux modules? I was under the impression that
> each
> > submix had its own complement of 8 aux modules, independently of the
other
> > submixes...I'm probably being stupid somehow...
> >
> > Confused,
> > Jimmy
> >
> >
>
>Can I use Wormhole with a standalone VST rack of some sort to route audio
from a Paris insert or aux, though the VST rack and then return it to
Paris..........with 40ms latency?? I will want to use my 4 x UAD-1 cards in
the VST Rack and I will need low enough latency in Paris that I can keep my
tracks in Paris and use the Paris mix automation without problem. I think I
saw Dimitrios post here that he had achieved somewhere around 40ms latency
using the FXPansion VST/DX wrapper? Not sure why he would need this if the
UAD-1 cards are in another machine...........but anyway........can this be
done somehow? If it involves using Cubase SX.........well, I've already got
that happening with no latency as long as all tracks are being played back
in SX. I need the tracks to stay in Paris and to process them either
elsewhere, or in Paris with low enough latency that I can set up a mix
template with 48 tracks and mix in Paris using the Paris
automation............wait, didn't I already say that?

Thanks,

Deej"gene lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote:
>
>"Neil" <OIYOIU@IOU.com> wrote:
>>
>>OK here's a question for the Wormhole expersts here...
>>
>>What if I want to use a 2nd PC as an external piece of hardware
>>exclusively for plugin's (kinda like if I had a TC Powercore or
>>one of those Muse Receptor thingies); could I use Wormhole to
>>do this, in terms of connecting the two PC's?
>>
>>Neil
>
>Yes, that is it’s most common use.

Is it? Well, OK then.... so how would I route it hard-
connection-wise... USB? Firewire?

NeilHey Dimitrios,

Definitely count me in. I just got a reply back today from them from a
couple of weeks ago re: syncing paris/nuendo and they referred back to you.
So obviously they're aware of the interest from the group.

David.


"Dimitrios" <musurgio@otenet.gr> wrote in message news:4361ea71$1@linux...
>
> Hello to everyone.
> After my last conversation with Adrian -wormhole's author- I have
> concluded
> that wormhole is not selling well ( where are we guys ?) so maybe major
> updates
> will get longer to support as he has to concentrate his efforts to
> "selling"
> appz.
> I wonder how we Parisians expect plugin authors like Adrian to support
> plugins
> like wormhole which are a godsend for Paris with tremendous present and
> future
> possibilities... (he is thinking of making wormhole lighter so to have
> even
> more instances).
> I don't see us people here supporting wormhole and that makes me sad and
> maybe all my efforts toward this direction will fail somehow.
> If we don't buy it how can we ask him for this and that ?
> Even two or three buys would not justify major -Paris oriented- updates
> with
> wormhole...
> Please sign here if you care for using wormhole even as two channel cross
> bridge beetween two computers (NOTE IT CAN BE USED ON SAME COMPUTER WITH
> DIFFERENT APPZ TOO).
> If we sign enouph people here (enouph depends I would say 10 and over I
> will
> kindly ask for a small discount for mass purchase.
> Please try wormhole and see for yourself how great this plugin is.
> We need Adrian (convince him make appz suited to Paris) and we certainly
> need wormhole.
> It will keep Paris alive for things to come no matter where audio
> technology
> will go.
> You will always have Paris thus connected with modern pc's doing what it
> is known to do best, sounding good when summing...
> Please forgive me if I am being so pushy with this but noone else except
> for Adrian (till now) has showed so much interest to help us ,Paris
> users.
> I wanna convince him make an automatic LATENCY compensator for VST plugins
> which I think would be great if succeeded.
> Believe me if only two-three Paris users will sign this I will be having
> no guts to ask him that or anything else.
> This plugin sells for 49 $ only...
> Please respond with signing also.
> With regards,
> DimitriosThis is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0094_01C5DD93.AA2241F0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Cujo,
I know what you're saying about the hi-gain sounds. The
414 is always abrassive here. I have been a 57 lover from
the getgo but am always fighting to reproduce what's coming from
the amp in the control room. =20

If the 121s can be murky maybe that will be true with the Shiny Box
also. I can say they accept paris high end eq very gracefully. Not
like a 57 or a 414. =20

The jury is in session as we speak...
Tom
=20
"cujo" <chris@nospamapplemanstudio.com> wrote in message =
news:436568a1$1@linux...


Cool, one thing I really harp on wiht bands about guitars is less is =
more.
So many great guitar bands (Led Zep, The Who, zz Top, Hendix, and even =
more
modern stuff like The Smiths, or the Clash) did not use that JCM800 =
type
marshall sound but often used cleaner sounds and less wall of guitar =
overdubs
for sure than say Foo Fighters or something of that nature. so it =
seems that
many of the LDC's or even 57's can sound pretty abrasive with them, =
but these
High Gain amos can sound cool for sure, the ribbon may be just the =
trick.,I
know the 121s do ok for this, but I do think they sound at tad murky =
too.


"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>Dale and Cujo,
>Heres what I can tell you about the 46Ls:
>
>I haven't any ribbons to AB them with. My experience with
>Beyer M-160s was less than stellar so I am certainly biased.
>The information I got from Jon at Shiny Box is that the Lundahls make =
=3D
>the
>mics more clear from top to bottom. I know John Macy is preferring =
the
=3D
>standard
>46s over his Royer 121s on e. gtrs. I am going to hammer
>them tonight with some crunch guitars for yours and my benefit.
>I'll A-B them with a 57, 421 414 so you have some basis for my
>comments. I'll gain match too using the same pre.
>
>Maybe I'll post a short mp3 too. It's so subjective with all the =3D
>variables.
>I'll give you my gut feeling though.
>Tom
>
> "cujo" <chris@nospamapplemanstudio.com> wrote in message =3D
>news:4365146f$1@linux...
>
>
> I saw a pair of the SE ribbons at a dealer.=3D20
> They do look really well constructed, and I guess they are supposed =
to
=3D
>be
> a tad more airy than the Royer. They aint super cheap though as are =
=3D
>the shiny..
> I really do want to know about the diff in the tranny of the Shiny =
box
=3D
>mics,
> I am thinking a pair of these may fit the bill as room mics. Of =
course
=3D
>you
> afiten get what you pay for
> I also want to know how they sound on a crunchy master gain =
marshall.
>
> I heard a clip of DJ's gemini in action, how does the 5000 compare?
>
>
> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
> >I can't wait to give one of these SE ribbons a try. I'm very =3D
>impressed with
> >the SE stuff. We just used a matched pair of SE3's on some guitar =
=3D
>overdubs.
> >We compared them to a matched pair of Neumann KM 184's and a pair =
of
=3D
>AKG
> >C460B's before we committed to them. The SE3's sound great. I =
think
=3D
>this
> >company is hitting some home runs with some high quality products =
at
=3D
>very
> >good prices.
> >
> >Deej
> >
> >"Dale" <dalebradleycello@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:4364187c$1@linux...
> >>
> >> A buncha questions about these "ShinyBox" mics I hear tell =
of....
> >>
> >> So how does the ShinyBox sound compared with Beyer M160 & Royer =
=3D
>(both
> of
> >> which I have used)? Does a $310 mic (46L) really outperform a =
=3D
>Royer?!?
> >>
> >> I just scanned the shinybox.com, but didn't see much description =
of
=3D
>the
> >practical
> >> difference between the 46, 46C, & 46L except about the =3D
>transformers. How
> >> are the spendier ones better?
> >>
> >> I don't suppose anyone has got one of the new SE Electronics =
Ribbon
=3D
>mics
> >> to report on? I have one of their tube mics (SE 5000) which I =
like
=3D
>a lot.
> >>
> >> thanks,
> >> Dale
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> "John Macy" <spamlessjohn@johnmacy.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >Glad you like them, Tom. I think they are
> >> >a fantastic value. I use my 46's over my Royers
> >> >all the time, especially on electric guitars. I
> >> >know Darren Rahn for the group here got a pair
> >> >also and is verry pleased, too. Even the unmatched,
> >> >stock transformer 46's are pretty nice :)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>Had a project that called for tenor sax, vocals
> >> >>and a little egg shakin'.
> >> >>
> >> >>Used 'em on everything through the Precision 8
> >> >>with really great results.
> >> >>
> >> >>The best words to describe them are natural and not hyped.
> >> >>to remove the room coming off the backside of the figure 8.
> >> >>Vocals didn't need compression. I was singing and watching
> >> >>levels so that made this possible. They did seem slightly
> >> >>compressed sounding though. Even when the wave got
> >> >>squared off in Paris it didn't gack or even sound clipped.
> >> >>I rerecorded those spots because they looked bad...
> >> >>Odd but kinda cool. =3D3D20
> >> >>
> >> >>Vocals in the mix need lots of high end. Not a problem =
either.
> >> >>It was a disco thing with that sizzly sound that only a =
condensor
> >> >>should get. What I found was that these things took Paris' =3D
>eq=3D3D20
> >> >>sweetly. The esses didn't go over the edge and tone was =
smooth
> >> >>as silk. I did use La2a's across them at mixdown though. The =
=3D
>eggs
> >> >>recorded nicely and again sounded natural. One on each side =
of =3D
>the
> mic.
> >> >=3D3D
> >> >>=3D3D20
> >> >>
> >> >>These are the first ribbons I've used except for some Beyer =
M160s
=3D
>way
> =3D3D
> >> >>back.
> >> >>These are floating my boat right now. I think they will rock =
on
=3D
>brass
> >> =3D3D
> >> >>and=3D3D20
> >> >>crunch guitar. I'll find out about that when a 7 horn band =
comes
=3D
>in
> =3D3D
> >> >>soon.
> >> >>They needed a lot of gain. I was afraid to get any closer =
than =3D
>about
> 4"
> >> >=3D3D
> >> >>from them.
> >> >>Delicate little buggers you know. Of course I used a popper =
=3D
>stopper
> for
> >> >=3D3D
> >> >>safety
> >> >>which darkens the sound a bit too.=3D3D20
> >> >>
> >> >>At $700 or so for the matched pair.I think this is quite a =3D
>bargain =3D3D
> >> >>compared to=3D3D20
> >> >>the R121s etc. The Lundahls are supposed to give them more =
=3D
>clarity
> =3D3D
> >> >>across the board.
> >> >>Natural is what I call them. Not a bad choice if your looking =
=3D
>for =3D3D
> >> >>ribbons.
> >> >>
> >> >>Thanks to John Macy for turning us on to them. Jon, the owner =
of
=3D
>Shiny
> >> =3D3D
> >> >>Box
> >> >>was very helpful throughout the buying process. He also took =
=3D
>great
> care
> >> >=3D3D
> >> >>in first
> >> >>matching mics then matching transformers then matching the =
mics =3D
>=3D3D
> >> >>w/transformers.
> >> >>Painstaking I would say. I know it took him at least a day or =
=3D
>so.
> >> >>Tom
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> >> >><HTML><HEAD>
> >> >><META http-equiv=3D3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D3D"text/html; =
=3D3D
> >> >>charset=3D3D3Diso-8859-1">
> >> >><META content=3D3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" =
name=3D3D3DGENERATOR>
> >> >><STYLE></STYLE>
> >> >></HEAD>
> >> >><BODY bgColor=3D3D3D#ffffff>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Had a project that =
called =3D
>for tenor
> =3D3D
> >> >>sax,=3D3D20
> >> >>vocals</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>and a little egg =3D
>shakin'.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Used 'em on =
everything =3D
>through the
> =3D3D
> >> >>Precision=3D3D20
> >> >>8</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>with really great =3D
>results.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>The best words to =
describe =3D
>=3D3D
> >> >>them are natural=3D3D20
> >> >>and not hyped.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Made the sax sound =
just like
=3D
>the =3D3D
> >> >>sax. Had to=3D3D20
> >> >>be fairly close</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>to remove the room =
coming =3D
>off the =3D3D
> >> >>backside of the=3D3D20
> >> >>figure 8.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Vocals didn't need =
=3D3D
> >> >>compression. I was=3D3D20
> >> >>singing and watching</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>levels so that made =
this =3D3D
> >> >>possible. They did=3D3D20
> >> >>seem slightly</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>compressed sounding =
though.
=3D
>Even =3D3D
> >> >>when the=3D3D20
> >> >>wave got</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>squared off in Paris =
it =3D
>didn't gack
> or
> >> >=3D3D
> >> >>even sound=3D3D20
> >> >>clipped.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>I rerecorded those =
spots =3D
>because they
> >> =3D3D
> >> >>looked=3D3D20
> >> >>bad...</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Odd but kinda cool. =
=3D
></FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Vocals in the mix =
need lots
=3D
>of high
> =3D3D
> >> >>end. Not=3D3D20
> >> >>a problem either.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>It was a disco thing =
with =3D
>that sizzly
> >> =3D3D
> >> >>sound that=3D3D20
> >> >>only a condensor</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>should get. What I =
found was
=3D
>that these
> >> >=3D3D
> >> >>things took=3D3D20
> >> >>Paris' eq </FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>sweetly. The esses =
didn't =3D
>go over
> =3D3D
> >> >>the=3D3D20
> >> >>edge and tone was smooth</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>as silk. I did use =
La2a's =3D
>across =3D3D
> >> >>them at=3D3D20
> >> >>mixdown though. The eggs</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>recorded nicely and =
again =3D
>sounded =3D3D
> >> >>natural. =3D3D20
> >> >>One on each side of the mic. </FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>These are the first =
ribbons
=3D
>I've used
> >> =3D3D
> >> >>except for=3D3D20
> >> >>some Beyer M160s way back.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>These are floating my =
boat =3D
>right =3D3D
> >> >>now. I think=3D3D20
> >> >>they will rock on brass and </FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>crunch guitar. I'll =
find =3D
>out =3D3D
> >> >>about=3D3D20
> >> >></FONT><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>that when a 7 horn =
band =3D
>comes in=3D3D20
> >> >>soon.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>They needed a lot of =
gain.=20
=3D
>I was =3D3D
> >> >>afraid to=3D3D20
> >> >>get any closer than about 4" from them.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Delicate little =
buggers you
=3D
>know.=3D20
> =3D3D
> >> >>Of course I=3D3D20
> >> >>used a popper stopper for safety</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>which darkens the =
sound a =3D
>bit too.
> =3D3D
> >> >></FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>At $700 or so for the =
=3D
>matched =3D3D
> >> >>pair.</FONT><FONT=3D3D20
> >> >>face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>I think this is quite a bargain =
=3D
>compared to =3D3D
> >> >></FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>the R121s etc. The =
Lundahls
=3D
>=3D3D
> >> >></FONT><FONT=3D3D20
> >> >>face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>are supposed to give them more =
clarity
=3D
>across
> >the=3D3D20
> >> >>board.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Natural is what I =
call them.
=3D
> =3D3D
> >> >></FONT><FONT=3D3D20
> >> >>face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Not a bad choice if your looking =
for =3D
>=3D3D
> >> >>ribbons.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Thanks to John Macy =
for =3D
>turning us
> on
> >> =3D3D
> >> >>to them. Jon,=3D3D20
> >> >>the owner of Shiny Box</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>was very helpful =
throughout
=3D
>the
> >buying=3D3D20
> >> >>process. He also took great care in first</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>matching mics then =
matching
=3D
>=3D3D
> >> >>transformers then=3D3D20
> >> >>matching the mics w/transformers.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Painstaking I would =
say. I
=3D
>know =3D3D
> >> >>it took him=3D3D20
> >> >>at least a day or so.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2></FONT> =
</DIV></BODY></HTML>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><HTML><HEAD>
><META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D
>charset=3D3Diso-8859-1">
><META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3D3DGENERATOR>
><STYLE></STYLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Dale and Cujo,</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Heres what I can tell you about =
the=3D20
>46Ls:</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>I haven't any ribbons to AB them =
=3D
>with. My=3D20
>experience with</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Beyer M-160s was less than =
stellar so I
=3D
>am=3D20
>certainly biased.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>The information </FONT><FONT =3D
>face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>I=3D20
>got from Jon at Shiny Box is that the Lundahls make the</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>mics more clear from top to =3D
>bottom. I know=3D20
>John Macy is </FONT><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>preferring the =
=3D
>standard</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>46s over his Royer 121s on e. =
=3D
>gtrs. I am=3D20
>going to hammer</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>them tonight with some crunch =
guitars =3D
>for yours and=3D20
>my benefit.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>I'll A-B them with a 57, 421 414 =
so you
=3D
>have some=3D20
>basis for my</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>comments. I'll gain match too =
=3D
>using the same=3D20
>pre.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Maybe I'll post a short mp3 too. =
=3D
>It's so=3D20
>subjective with all the variables.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>I'll give you my gut feeling =3D
>though.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><BLOCKQUOTE=3D20
>style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
=3D
>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> <DIV>"cujo" <<A=3D20
> =3D
=
>href=3D3D"mailto:chris@nospamapplemanstudio.com">chris@nospamapplemanstu=
dio=3D
>.com</A>>=3D20
> wrote in message <A=3D20
> =3D
=
>href=3D3D"news:4365146f$1@linux">news:4365146f$1@linux</A>...</DIV><BR><=
BR>=3D
>I saw a=3D20
> pair of the SE ribbons at a dealer. <BR>They do look really well =
=3D
>constructed,=3D20
> and I guess they are supposed to be<BR>a tad more airy than the =
Royer.
=3D
>They=3D20
> aint super cheap though as are the shiny..<BR>I really do want to =
know
=3D
>about=3D20
> the diff in the tranny of the Shiny box mics,<BR>I am thinking a =
pair
=3D
>of these=3D20
> may fit the bill as room mics. Of course you<BR>afiten get what you =
=3D
>pay=3D20
> for<BR>I also want to know how they sound on a crunchy master =
gain=3D20
> marshall.<BR><BR>I heard a clip of DJ's gemini in action, how does =
the
=3D
>5000=3D20
> compare?<BR><BR><BR>"DJ" <<A=3D20
> =3D
=
>href=3D3D"mailto:animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net">animix_spam-this-ah=
ole=3D
>_@animas.net</A>>=3D20
> wrote:<BR>>I can't wait to give one of these SE ribbons a try. I'm =
=3D
>very=3D20
> impressed with<BR>>the SE stuff. We just used a matched pair of =3D
>SE3's on=3D20
> some guitar overdubs.<BR>>We compared them to a matched pair of =3D
>Neumann KM=3D20
> 184's and a pair of AKG<BR>>C460B's before we committed to them. =
=3D
>The SE3's=3D20
> sound great. I think this<BR>>company is hitting some home =3D
>runs with=3D20
> some high quality products at very<BR>>good=3D20
> prices.<BR>><BR>>Deej<BR>><BR>>"Dale" <<A=3D20
> =3D
=
>href=3D3D"mailto:dalebradleycello@yahoo.com">dalebradleycello@yahoo.com<=
/A>=3D
>>=3D20
> wrote in =3D
>message<BR>>news:4364187c$1@linux...<BR>>><BR>>> A=3D20
> buncha questions about these "ShinyBox" mics I hear tell=3D20
> of....<BR>>><BR>>> So how does the ShinyBox sound compared =3D
>with=3D20
> Beyer M160 & Royer (both<BR>of<BR>>> which I have used)? =3D
>Does a $310=3D20
> mic (46L) really outperform a Royer?!?<BR>>><BR>>> I just =3D
>scanned=3D20
> the shinybox.com, but didn't see much description of=3D20
> the<BR>>practical<BR>>> difference between the 46, 46C, & =3D
>46L=3D20
> except about the transformers. How<BR>>> are the spendier ones=3D20
> better?<BR>>><BR>>> I don't suppose anyone has got one of =3D
>the new=3D20
> SE Electronics Ribbon mics<BR>>> to report on? I have one of =3D
>their tube=3D20
> mics (SE 5000) which I like a lot.<BR>>><BR>>> =3D
>thanks,<BR>>>=3D20
> Dale<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> "John Macy" =3D
><<A=3D20
> =3D
=
>href=3D3D"mailto:spamlessjohn@johnmacy.com">spamlessjohn@johnmacy.com</A=
>&g=3D
>t;=3D20
> wrote:<BR>>> ><BR>>> >Glad you like them, Tom. =3D
>I think=3D20
> they are<BR>>> >a fantastic value. I use my 46's over =3D
>my=3D20
> Royers<BR>>> >all the time, especially on electric =3D
>guitars. =3D20
> I<BR>>> >know Darren Rahn for the group here got a =3D
>pair<BR>>>=3D20
> >also and is verry pleased, too. Even the =3D
>unmatched,<BR>>>=3D20
> >stock transformer 46's are pretty nice :)<BR>>> =3D
>><BR>>>=3D20
> ><BR>>> >"Tom Bruhl" <<A=3D20
> href=3D3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>>=3D20
> wrote:<BR>>> >><BR>>> >><BR>>> =3D
>>>Had a=3D20
> project that called for tenor sax, vocals<BR>>> >>and a =3D
>little egg=3D20
> shakin'.<BR>>> >><BR>>> >>Used 'em on =3D
>everything=3D20
> through the Precision 8<BR>>> >>with really great=3D20
> results.<BR>>> >><BR>>> >>The best words to =3D
>describe=3D20
> them are natural and not hyped.<BR>>> >>to remove the room =3D
>coming=3D20
> off the backside of the figure 8.<BR>>> >>Vocals didn't =3D
>need=3D20
> compression. I was singing and watching<BR>>> =3D
>>>levels so=3D20
> that made this possible. They did seem slightly<BR>>>=3D20
> >>compressed sounding though. Even when the wave =3D
>got<BR>>>=3D20
> >>squared off in Paris it didn't gack or even sound =3D
>clipped.<BR>>>=3D20
> >>I rerecorded those spots because they looked =3D
>bad...<BR>>>=3D20
> >>Odd but kinda cool. =3D3D20<BR>>> >><BR>>>=3D20
> >>Vocals in the mix need lots of high end. Not a problem=3D20
> either.<BR>>> >>It was a disco thing with that sizzly =3D
>sound that=3D20
> only a condensor<BR>>> >>should get. What I found was that =3D
>these=3D20
> things took Paris' eq=3D3D20<BR>>> >>sweetly. The =3D
>esses didn't=3D20
> go over the edge and tone was smooth<BR>>> >>as =3D
>silk. I did=3D20
> use La2a's across them at mixdown though. The eggs<BR>>>=3D20
> >>recorded nicely and again sounded natural. One on each =3D
>side of=3D20
> the<BR>mic.<BR>>> >=3D3D<BR>>> >>=3D3D20<BR>>>=3D20
> >><BR>>> >>These are the first ribbons I've used =3D
>except for=3D20
> some Beyer M160s way<BR>=3D3D<BR>>> >>back.<BR>>> =3D
>>>These=3D20
> are floating my boat right now. I think they will rock on=3D20
> brass<BR>>> =3D3D<BR>>> >>and=3D3D20<BR>>> =3D
>>>crunch=3D20
> guitar. I'll find out about that when a 7 horn band comes=3D20
> in<BR>=3D3D<BR>>> >>soon.<BR>>> >>They needed a =3D
>lot of=3D20
> gain. I was afraid to get any closer than =3D
>about<BR>4"<BR>>>=3D20
> >=3D3D<BR>>> >>from them.<BR>>> >>Delicate =3D
>little=3D20
> buggers you know. Of course I used a popper =3D
>stopper<BR>for<BR>>>=3D20
> >=3D3D<BR>>> >>safety<BR>>> >>which darkens =3D
>the sound a=3D20
> bit too.=3D3D20<BR>>> >><BR>>> >>At $700 or so =3D
>for the=3D20
> matched pair.I think this is quite a bargain =3D3D<BR>>> =3D
>>>compared=3D20
> to=3D3D20<BR>>> >>the R121s etc. The Lundahls are =3D
>supposed to=3D20
> give them more clarity<BR>=3D3D<BR>>> >>across the =3D
>board.<BR>>>=3D20
> >>Natural is what I call them. Not a bad choice if your =3D
>looking=3D20
> for =3D3D<BR>>> >>ribbons.<BR>>> >><BR>>>=3D20
> >>Thanks to John Macy for turning us on to them. Jon, the owner =3D
>of=3D20
> Shiny<BR>>> =3D3D<BR>>> >>Box<BR>>> >>was =3D
>very=3D20
> helpful throughout the buying process. He also took=3D20
> great<BR>care<BR>>> >=3D3D<BR>>> >>in =3D
>first<BR>>>=3D20
> >>matching mics then matching transformers then matching the =3D
>mics=3D20
> =3D3D<BR>>> >>w/transformers.<BR>>> =3D
>>>Painstaking I would=3D20
> say. I know it took him at least a day or so.<BR>>>=3D20
> >>Tom<BR>>> >><BR>>> >><BR>>>=3D20
> >><BR>>> >><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD =3D
>HTML 4.0=3D20
> Transitional//EN"><BR>>> =3D
>>><HTML><HEAD><BR>>>=3D20
> >><META http-equiv=3D3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D3D"text/html; =3D
>=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>charset=3D3D3Diso-8859-1"><BR>>> >><META=3D20
> content=3D3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3D3D3DGENERATOR><BR>>> =
=3D
>
> >><STYLE></STYLE><BR>>>=3D20
> >></HEAD><BR>>> >><BODY=3D20
> bgColor=3D3D3D#ffffff><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =3D
>face=3D3D3DArial=3D20
> size=3D3D3D2>Had a project that called for =
tenor<BR>=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>sax,=3D3D20<BR>>>=3D20
> >>vocals</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=3D20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>and a little =3D
>egg=3D20
> shakin'.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =3D
>>><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2></FONT> </DIV><BR>>>=3D20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Used 'em on =3D
>everything=3D20
> through the<BR>=3D3D<BR>>> >>Precision=3D3D20<BR>>>=3D20
> >>8</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =3D
>>><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>with really great=3D20
> results.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =3D
>>><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2></FONT> </DIV><BR>>>=3D20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>The best =3D
>words to=3D20
> describe =3D3D<BR>>> >>them are natural=3D3D20<BR>>> =3D
>>>and not=3D20
> hyped.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =3D
>>><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Made the sax sound just like the =3D
>=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>sax. Had to=3D3D20<BR>>> >>be fairly=3D20
> close</FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =3D
>
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>to remove the room coming off the =3D
>=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>backside of the=3D3D20<BR>>> >>figure=3D20
> 8.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Vocals didn't need =3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>compression. I was=3D3D20<BR>>> >>singing and=3D20
> watching</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =3D
>>><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>levels so that made this =
=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>possible. They did=3D3D20<BR>>> >>seem=3D20
> slightly</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =3D
>>><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>compressed sounding though. Even =3D
>=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>when the=3D3D20<BR>>> >>wave=3D20
> got</FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>squared off in Paris it didn't =3D
>gack<BR>or<BR>>>=3D20
> >=3D3D<BR>>> >>even sound=3D3D20<BR>>>=3D20
> >>clipped.</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=3D20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>I rerecorded =3D
>those spots=3D20
> because they<BR>>> =3D3D<BR>>> =3D
>>>looked=3D3D20<BR>>>=3D20
> >>bad...</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=3D20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Odd but kinda =3D
>cool. =3D20
> </FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =3D
>face=3D3D3DArial=3D20
> size=3D3D3D2></FONT> </DIV><BR>>> =3D
>>><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Vocals in the mix need lots of =3D
>high<BR>=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>end. Not=3D3D20<BR>>> >>a problem=3D20
> either.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =3D
>>><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>It was a disco thing with that =3D
>sizzly<BR>>>=3D20
> =3D3D<BR>>> >>sound that=3D3D20<BR>>> >>only a=3D20
> condensor</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =3D
>>><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>should get. What I found was that =3D
>these<BR>>>=3D20
> >=3D3D<BR>>> >>things took=3D3D20<BR>>> =3D
>>>Paris' eq=3D20
> </FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =3D
>face=3D3D3DArial=3D20
> size=3D3D3D2>sweetly. The esses didn't go =3D
>over<BR>=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>the=3D3D20<BR>>> >>edge and tone was=3D20
> smooth</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =3D
>>><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>as silk. I did use La2a's across =3D
>=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>them at=3D3D20<BR>>> >>mixdown though. The=3D20
> eggs</FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>recorded nicely and again sounded =3D
>=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>natural. =3D3D20<BR>>> >>One on each side of the =3D
>mic. =3D20
> </FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =3D
>face=3D3D3DArial=3D20
> size=3D3D3D2></FONT> </DIV><BR>>> =3D
>>><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>These are the first ribbons I've =3D
>used<BR>>>=3D20
> =3D3D<BR>>> >>except for=3D3D20<BR>>> >>some Beyer =3D
>M160s way=3D20
> back.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =3D
>
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>These are floating my boat right =3D
>=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>now. I think=3D3D20<BR>>> >>they will rock on =3D
>brass and=3D20
> </FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =3D
>face=3D3D3DArial=3D20
> size=3D3D3D2>crunch guitar. I'll find out =3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>about=3D3D20<BR>>> >></FONT><FONT =3D
>face=3D3D3DArial=3D20
> size=3D3D3D2>that when a 7 horn band comes in=3D3D20<BR>>>=3D20
> >>soon.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =3D
>>><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>They needed a lot of gain. I was =3D
>=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>afraid to=3D3D20<BR>>> >>get any closer than about =3D
>4" from=3D20
> them.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =3D
>
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Delicate little buggers you know. =3D
><BR>=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>Of course I=3D3D20<BR>>> >>used a popper stopper for =3D
>
> safety</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =3D
>>><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>which darkens the sound a bit =3D
>too.<BR>=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >></FONT></DIV><BR>>> =3D
>>><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2></FONT> </DIV><BR>>>=3D20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>At $700 or so =3D
>for the=3D20
> matched =3D3D<BR>>> =3D
>>>pair.</FONT><FONT=3D3D20<BR>>>=3D20
> >>face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>I think this is quite a bargain =3D
>compared to=3D20
> =3D3D<BR>>> >></FONT></DIV><BR>>>=3D20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>the R121s =3D
>etc. The=3D20
> Lundahls =3D3D<BR>>> =3D
>>></FONT><FONT=3D3D20<BR>>>=3D20
> >>face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>are supposed to give them more =3D
>clarity=3D20
> across<BR>>the=3D3D20<BR>>>=3D20
> >>board.</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=3D20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Natural is =3D
>what I call=3D20
> them. =3D3D<BR>>> =3D
>>></FONT><FONT=3D3D20<BR>>>=3D20
> >>face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Not a bad choice if your looking =
=3D
>for=3D20
> =3D3D<BR>>> >>ribbons.</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=3D20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2></FONT> =3D
>
> </DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial=3D20
> size=3D3D3D2>Thanks to John Macy for turning us<BR>on<BR>>> =3D
>=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>to them. Jon,=3D3D20<BR>>> >>the owner of Shiny=3D20
> Box</FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>was very helpful throughout=3D20
> the<BR>>buying=3D3D20<BR>>> >>process. He also took =3D
>great=3D20
> care in first</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =3D
>>><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>matching mics then matching =3D
>=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>transformers then=3D3D20<BR>>> >>matching the mics=3D20
> w/transformers.</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=3D20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Painstaking I =3D
>would=3D20
> say. I know =3D3D<BR>>> >>it took him=3D3D20<BR>>> =3D
>>>at=3D20
> least a day or so.</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=3D20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial=3D20
> size=3D3D3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=3D20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2></FONT> =3D
>
> </DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial=3D20
> size=3D3D3D2></FONT> =3D
></DIV></BODY></HTML><BR>>>=3D20
> >><BR>>> >><BR>>>=3D20
>><BR>><BR>><BR>></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
>
>
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cujo,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I know what you're saying about the =
hi-gain=20
sounds.&nbsp; The</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>414 is always abrassive here.&nbsp; I =
have been a=20
57 lover from</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the getgo but am always fighting to =
reproduce=20
what's coming from</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the amp in the control=20
room.&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If the 121s can be murky maybe that =
will be true=20
with the Shiny Box</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>also.&nbsp; I can say they&nbsp;accept =
paris high=20
end eq very gracefully.&nbsp; Not</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>like a 57 or a 414.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The jury is in session as we =
speak...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"cujo" &lt;<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:chris@nospamapplemanstudio.com">chris@nospamapplemanstudio=
..com</A>&gt;=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:436568a1$1@linux">news:436568a1$1@linux</A>...</DIV><BR><BR>=
Cool,=20
one thing I really harp on wiht bands about guitars is less is =
more.<BR>So=20
many great guitar bands (Led Zep, The Who, zz Top, Hendix, and even=20
more<BR>modern stuff like The Smiths, or the Clash) did not use that =
JCM800=20
type<BR>marshall sound but often used cleaner sounds and less wall of =
guitar=20
overdubs<BR>for sure than say Foo Fighters or something of that =
nature. so it=20
seems that<BR>many of the LDC's or even 57's can sound pretty abrasive =
with=20
them, but these<BR>High Gain amos can sound cool for sure, the ribbon =
may be=20
just the trick.,I<BR>know the 121s do ok for this, but I do think they =
sound=20
at tad murky too.<BR><BR><BR>"Tom Bruhl" &lt;<A=20
href=3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>&gt;=20
wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Dale and Cujo,<BR>&gt;Heres what I can =
tell you=20
about the 46Ls:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I haven't any ribbons to AB them =
with.&nbsp; My=20
experience with<BR>&gt;Beyer M-160s was less than stellar so I am =
certainly=20
biased.<BR>&gt;The information I got from Jon at Shiny Box is that the =

Lundahls make =3D<BR>&gt;the<BR>&gt;mics more clear from top to =
bottom.&nbsp; I=20
know John Macy is preferring the<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;standard<BR>&gt;46s =
over his=20
Royer 121s on e. gtrs.&nbsp; I am going to hammer<BR>&gt;them tonight =
with=20
some crunch guitars for yours and my benefit.<BR>&gt;I'll A-B them =
with a 57,=20
421 414 so you have some basis for my<BR>&gt;comments.&nbsp; I'll gain =
match=20
too using the same pre.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Maybe I'll post a short mp3 =
too.&nbsp;=20
It's so subjective with all the =3D<BR>&gt;variables.<BR>&gt;I'll give =
you my=20
gut feeling though.<BR>&gt;Tom<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; "cujo" &lt;<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:chris@nospamapplemanstudio.com">chris@nospamapplemanstudio=
..com</A>&gt;=20
wrote in message=20
=3D<BR>&gt;news:4365146f$1@linux...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; I =
saw a pair=20
of the SE ribbons at a dealer.=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; They do look really =
well=20
constructed, and I guess they are supposed =
to<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;be<BR>&gt;&nbsp; a=20
tad more airy than the Royer. They aint super cheap though as are =
=3D<BR>&gt;the=20
shiny..<BR>&gt;&nbsp; I really do want to know about the diff in the =
tranny of=20
the Shiny box<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;mics,<BR>&gt;&nbsp; I am thinking a pair =
of these=20
may fit the bill as room mics. Of =
course<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;you<BR>&gt;&nbsp; afiten=20
get what you pay for<BR>&gt;&nbsp; I also want to know how they sound =
on a=20
crunchy master gain marshall.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; I heard a clip of =
DJ's=20
gemini in action, how does the 5000 =
compare?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
"DJ" &lt;<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net">animix_spam-this-ahole=
_@animas.net</A>&gt;=20
wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;I can't wait to give one of these SE ribbons =
a try.=20
I'm very =3D<BR>&gt;impressed with<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;the SE stuff. We =
just used=20
a matched pair of SE3's on some guitar =
=3D<BR>&gt;overdubs.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;We=20
compared them to a matched pair of Neumann KM 184's and a pair=20
of<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;AKG<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;C460B's before we committed to =
them. The=20
SE3's sound great.&nbsp; I think<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;this<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;company is=20
hitting some home runs with some high quality products=20
at<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;very<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;good prices.<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;Deej<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;"Dale" &lt;<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:dalebradleycello@yahoo.com">dalebradleycello@yahoo.com</A>=
&gt;=20
wrote in message<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;news:4364187c$1@linux...<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; A buncha questions about these =
"ShinyBox" mics=20
I hear tell of....<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; So =
how does=20
the ShinyBox sound compared with Beyer M160 &amp; Royer=20
=3D<BR>&gt;(both<BR>&gt;&nbsp; of<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; which I have =
used)?=20
Does a $310 mic (46L) really outperform a =
=3D<BR>&gt;Royer?!?<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; I just scanned the shinybox.com, but =
didn't=20
see much description of<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;the<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;practical<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; difference between the 46, 46C, =
&amp; 46L=20
except about the =3D<BR>&gt;transformers. How<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
are the=20
spendier ones better?<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; I =
don't=20
suppose anyone has got one of the new SE Electronics=20
Ribbon<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;mics<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; to report on? I have =
one of=20
their tube mics (SE 5000) which I like<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;a =
lot.<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; thanks,<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
Dale<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; "John Macy" &lt;<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:spamlessjohn@johnmacy.com">spamlessjohn@johnmacy.com</A>&g=
t;=20
wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;Glad you =
like=20
them, Tom.&nbsp; I think they are<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;a =
fantastic=20
value.&nbsp; I use my 46's over my Royers<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;all the=20
time, especially on electric guitars.&nbsp; I<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;know=20
Darren Rahn for the group here got a pair<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;also and=20
is verry pleased, too.&nbsp; Even the unmatched,<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;stock transformer 46's are pretty nice :)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;"Tom =
Bruhl" &lt;<A=20
href=3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>&gt;=20
wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Had a project that called for =
tenor=20
sax, vocals<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;and a little egg=20
shakin'.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;Used=20
'em on everything through the Precision 8<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;with=20
really great results.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;The best words to describe them are natural and not=20
hyped.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;to remove the room coming off =
the=20
backside of the figure 8.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Vocals didn't =
need=20
compression.&nbsp; I was singing and watching<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;levels so that made this possible.&nbsp; They did seem=20
slightly<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;compressed sounding =
though.&nbsp; Even=20
when the wave got<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;squared off in Paris =
it=20
didn't gack or even sound clipped.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;I =
rerecorded=20
those spots because they looked bad...<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;Odd but=20
kinda cool. =3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;Vocals in the mix need lots of high end.&nbsp; Not a problem=20
either.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;It was a disco thing with that =
sizzly=20
sound that only a condensor<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;should get. =
What I=20
found was that these things took Paris' =
=3D<BR>&gt;eq=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;sweetly.&nbsp; The esses didn't go over the edge and =
tone was=20
smooth<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;as silk.&nbsp; I did use La2a's =
across=20
them at mixdown though.&nbsp; The =3D<BR>&gt;eggs<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;recorded nicely and again sounded natural.&nbsp; One on each =
side of=20
=3D<BR>&gt;the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; mic.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;These are the first ribbons I've used except for some Beyer=20
M160s<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;way<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;back.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;These are floating my =
boat right=20
now.&nbsp; I think they will rock on<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;brass<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;and=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =

&gt;&gt;crunch guitar.&nbsp; I'll find out about that when a 7 horn =
band=20
comes<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;in<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;soon.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;They needed a lot of =
gain.&nbsp;=20
I was afraid to get any closer than =3D<BR>&gt;about<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
4"<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;from=20
them.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Delicate little buggers you =
know.&nbsp;=20
Of course I used a popper =3D<BR>&gt;stopper<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
for<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt; &gt;=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;safety<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;which darkens the sound a bit too.=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;At $700 or so for the matched =
pair.I=20
think this is quite a =3D<BR>&gt;bargain =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;compared to=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;the R121s =
etc.&nbsp;=20
The Lundahls are supposed to give them more =
=3D<BR>&gt;clarity<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;across the board.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;Natural is what I call them.&nbsp; Not a bad choice if your =
looking=20
=3D<BR>&gt;for =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;ribbons.<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Thanks to John Macy =
for=20
turning us on to them. Jon, the owner =
of<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;Shiny<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt; =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Box<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;was very helpful throughout the buying process.&nbsp; He also =
took=20
=3D<BR>&gt;great<BR>&gt;&nbsp; care<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;in first<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;matching mics =
then=20
matching transformers then matching the mics =
=3D<BR>&gt;=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;w/transformers.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;Painstaking I=20
would say.&nbsp; I know it took him at least a day or=20
=3D<BR>&gt;so.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Tom<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC =
"-//W3C//DTD=20
HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;<BR >&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;&lt;META=20
http-equiv=3D3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D3D"text/html; =
=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;charset=3D3D3Diso-8859-1"&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;&lt;META=20
content=3D3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" =
name=3D3D3DGENERATOR&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;<BR >&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;/HEAD&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&lt;BODY=20
bgColor=3D3D3D#ffffff&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT=20
face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;Had a project that called =
=3D<BR>&gt;for=20
tenor<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;sax,=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;vocals&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV& gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;and a =
little egg=20
=3D<BR>&gt;shakin'.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial =
size=3D3D3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;=20
&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT =
face=3D3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D3D2&gt;Used 'em on everything =3D<BR>&gt;through =
the<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Precision=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;8&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR >&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;with =
really great=20
=3D<BR>&gt;results.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial =
size=3D3D3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;=20
&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT =
face=3D3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D3D2&gt;The best words to describe =
=3D<BR>&gt;=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;them are natural=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;and not =

hyped.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;Made the =
sax sound=20
just like<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;the =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;sax.&nbsp; Had=20
to=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;be fairly=20
close&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;to remove =
the room=20
coming =3D<BR>&gt;off the =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;backside of=20
the=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;figure=20
8.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT=20
face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;Vocals didn't need =
=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;compression.&nbsp; I was=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;singing=20
and watching&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;levels so =
that made=20
this =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;possible.&nbsp; They=20
did=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;seem=20
slightly&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial =
size=3D3D3D2&gt;compressed sounding=20
though.<BR>&nbsp;=3D<BR>&gt;Even =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;when=20
the=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;wave=20
got&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;squared =
off in Paris=20
it =3D<BR>&gt;didn't gack<BR>&gt;&nbsp; or<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;even =
sound=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;clipped.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&am p;gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;I =
rerecorded those=20
spots =3D<BR>&gt;because they<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;looked=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;bad...&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV& gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;Odd but =
kinda=20
cool.&nbsp; =3D<BR>&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR >&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial =
size=3D3D3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;=20
&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT =
face=3D3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D3D2&gt;Vocals in the mix need lots<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;of =
high<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;end.&nbsp; =
Not=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;a problem either.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;It was a =
disco thing=20
with =3D<BR>&gt;that sizzly<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;sound that=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;only a=20
condensor&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;should =
get. What I=20
found was<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;that these<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;things took=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;Paris' eq=20
&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT=20
face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;sweetly.&nbsp; The esses didn't =
=3D<BR>&gt;go=20
over<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;the=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;edge and tone was=20
smooth&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;as =
silk.&nbsp; I did=20
use La2a's =3D<BR>&gt;across =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;them =

at=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;mixdown though.&nbsp; The=20
eggs&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;recorded =
nicely and=20
again =3D<BR>&gt;sounded =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;natural. =

=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;One on each side of the =
mic.&nbsp;=20
&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT=20
face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt; =
&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;These are =
the first=20
ribbons<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;I've used<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;except for=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;some =
Beyer=20
M160s way back.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;These are =
floating my=20
boat =3D<BR>&gt;right =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;now.&nbsp; =
I=20
think=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;they will rock on brass =
and=20
&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT=20
face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;crunch guitar.&nbsp; I'll find =
=3D<BR>&gt;out=20
=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;about=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;that =
when a 7 horn=20
band =3D<BR>&gt;comes in=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;soon.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&g t; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;They =
needed a lot of=20
gain. <BR>=3D<BR>&gt;I was =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;afraid =

to=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;get any closer than about 4" =
from=20
them.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;Delicate =
little=20
buggers you<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;know.=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;Of course I=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;used a =
popper stopper=20
for safety&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;which =
darkens the=20
sound a =3D<BR>&gt;bit too.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =

&gt;&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR >&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial =
size=3D3D3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;=20
&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT =
face=3D3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D3D2&gt;At $700 or so for the =3D<BR>&gt;matched =
=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;pair.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;FONT=3D3D2 0 <BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;I think this is quite a =
bargain=20
=3D<BR>&gt;compared to =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR >&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;the R121s =
etc.&nbsp;=20
The Lundahls<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;FONT=3D3D20<BR >&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;are supposed to give them =
more=20
clarity<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;across<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;the=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;board.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV& gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;Natural =
is what I=20
call them.<BR>=3D<BR>&gt; =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;FONT=3D3D20<BR >&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;Not a bad choice if your =
looking for=20
=3D<BR>&gt;=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;ribbons.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&am p;gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial =
size=3D3D3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;=20
&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT =
face=3D3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D3D2&gt;Thanks to John Macy for =3D<BR>&gt;turning =
us<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
on<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;to =
them.=20
Jon,=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;the owner of Shiny=20
Box&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;was very =
helpful=20
throughout<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;buying=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;process.&nbsp; He also took great care in=20
first&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;matching =
mics then=20
matching<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;transformers=20
then=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;matching the mics=20
w/transformers.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR >&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial =
size=3D3D3D2&gt;Painstaking I would=20
say.&nbsp; I<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;know =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;it took=20
him=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;at least a day or=20
so.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D3D2&gt;Tom&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV& ;gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial =
size=3D3D3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;=20
&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT =
face=3D3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;=20
&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&g t; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0=20
Transitional//EN"&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt; <BR>&gt;&lt;META=20
http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html;=20
=3D<BR>&gt;charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;META =
content=3D3D"MSHTML=20
6.00.2800.1400"=20
=
name=3D3DGENERATOR&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt; <BR>&gt;&lt;/HEA=
D&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;BODY=20
bgColor=3D3D#ffffff&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3DArial =
size=3D3D2&gt;Dale=20
and Cujo,&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT =
face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2&gt;Heres what I can tell you about=20
=
the=3D20<BR>&gt;46Ls:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt; <BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT=
=20
face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt; =
&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT=20
face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2&gt;I haven't any ribbons to AB them =
=3D<BR>&gt;with.=20
My=3D20<BR>&gt;experience=20
with&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT =
face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2&gt;Beyer M-160s was less than stellar so=20
I<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;am=3D20<BR>&gt;certainly=20
biased.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT =
face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2&gt;The information &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;FONT =
=3D<BR>&gt;face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2&gt;I=3D20<BR>&gt;got from Jon at Shiny Box is that the =
Lundahls make=20
the&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3DArial =

size=3D3D2&gt;mics more clear from top to =3D<BR>&gt;bottom. I =
know=3D20<BR>&gt;John=20
Macy is &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2&gt;preferring =
the=20
=
=3D<BR>&gt;standard&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt; <BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT=20
face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2&gt;46s over his Royer 121s on e. =
=3D<BR>&gt;gtrs. I=20
am=3D20<BR>&gt;going to=20
hammer&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT =
face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2&gt;them tonight with some crunch guitars =3D<BR>&gt;for =
yours=20
and=3D20<BR>&gt;my =
benefit.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT=20
face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2&gt;I'll A-B them with a 57, 421 414 so=20
you<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;have some=3D20<BR>&gt;basis for=20
my&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2&gt;comments. I'll gain match too =3D<BR>&gt;using the=20
=
same=3D20<BR>&gt;pre.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt; <BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT=
=20
face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt; =
&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT=20
face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2&gt;Maybe I'll post a short mp3 too. =
=3D<BR>&gt;It's=20
so=3D20<BR>&gt;subjective with all the=20
variables.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT =
face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2&gt;I'll give you my gut feeling=20
=3D<BR>&gt;though.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt; <BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT =

face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2&gt;Tom&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&g t; <BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT=20
face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;=20
=
&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;BLOCKQUOTE=3D20<BR >&gt;style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px;=20
PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =3D<BR>&gt;BORDER-LEFT: #000000 =
2px solid;=20
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &lt;DIV&gt;"cujo"=20
&lt;&lt;A=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =3D<BR>&gt;href=3D3D"<A=20
=
href=3D'mailto:chris@nospamapplemanstudio.com">chris@nospamapplemanstudio=
'>mailto:chris@nospamapplemanstudio.com"&gt;chris@nospamapplemanstudio</A=
>=3D<BR>&gt;.com&lt;/A&gt;&gt;=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
wrote in message &lt;A=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =3D<BR>&gt;href=3D3D"<A=20
=
href=3D'news:4365146f$1@linux">news:4365146f$1@linux</A>...</DIV><BR><BR'=
>news:4365146f$1@linux"&gt;news:4365146f$1@linux&lt;/A&gt;...&lt;/DIV&gt;=
&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR</A>&gt;=3D<BR>&gt;I=20
saw a=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; pair of the SE ribbons at a dealer. =
&lt;BR&gt;They do=20
look really well =3D<BR>&gt;constructed,=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; and I =
guess they are=20
supposed to be&lt;BR&gt;a tad more airy than the=20
Royer.<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;They=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; aint super cheap though =
as are the=20
shiny..&lt;BR&gt;I really do want to =
know<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;about=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
the diff in the tranny of the Shiny box mics,&lt;BR&gt;I am thinking a =

pair<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;of these=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; may fit the bill as =
room mics. Of=20
course you&lt;BR&gt;afiten get what you =
=3D<BR>&gt;pay=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
for&lt;BR&gt;I also want to know how they sound on a crunchy master=20
gain=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; marshall.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I heard a clip of =
DJ's=20
gemini in action, how does the<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;5000=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
compare?&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&g t; "DJ" =
&lt;&lt;A=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
=3D<BR>&gt;href=3D3D"<A=20
=
href=3D'mailto:animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net">animix_spam-this-ahole=
'>mailto:animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net"&gt;animix_spam-this-ahole</A=
>=3D<BR>&gt;_@animas.net&lt;/A&gt;&gt;=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
wrote:&lt;BR&gt;&gt;I can't wait to give one of these SE ribbons a =
try. I'm=20
=3D<BR>&gt;very=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; impressed with&lt;BR&gt;&gt;the SE =
stuff. We=20
just used a matched pair of =3D<BR>&gt;SE3's on=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
some guitar=20
overdubs.&lt;BR&gt;&gt;We compared them to a matched pair of =
=3D<BR>&gt;Neumann=20
KM=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; 184's and a pair of AKG&lt;BR&gt;&gt;C460B's =
before we=20
committed to them. =3D<BR>&gt;The SE3's=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; sound =
great. I think=20
this&lt;BR&gt;&gt;company is hitting some home =3D<BR>&gt;runs=20
with=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; some high quality products at=20
very&lt;BR&gt;&gt;good=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
=
prices.&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&gt;D eej&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&gt; "Dale"=
=20
&lt;&lt;A=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =3D<BR>&gt;href=3D3D"<A=20
=
href=3D'mailto:dalebradleycello@yahoo.com">dalebradleycello@yahoo.com</A'=
>mailto:dalebradleycello@yahoo.com"&gt;dalebradleycello@yahoo.com&lt;/A</=
A>&gt;=3D<BR>&gt;&gt;=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
wrote in=20
=
=3D<BR>&gt;message&lt;BR&gt;&gt;news:4364187c$1@linux...&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
A=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; buncha questions about these "ShinyBox" mics I =
hear=20
tell=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; of....&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&a mp;gt;&gt; So =
how does=20
the ShinyBox sound compared =3D<BR>&gt;with=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Beyer =
M160 &amp;=20
Royer (both&lt;BR&gt;of&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; which I have used)? =
=3D<BR>&gt;Does a=20
$310=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; mic (46L) really outperform a=20
Royer?!?&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt; &gt;&gt; I just=20
=3D<BR>&gt;scanned=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; the shinybox.com, but didn't see =
much=20
description of=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
the&lt;BR&gt;&gt;practical&lt;BR&gt;& ;gt;&gt;=20
difference between the 46, 46C, &amp; =
=3D<BR>&gt;46L=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; except=20
about the transformers. How&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; are the spendier=20
ones=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; better?&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt;& amp;gt;&gt; I =
don't=20
suppose anyone has got one of =3D<BR>&gt;the new=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; SE =
Electronics=20
Ribbon mics&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; to report on? I have one of =
=3D<BR>&gt;their=20
tube=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; mics (SE 5000) which I like a=20
lot.&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt;& ;gt;&gt;=20
=3D<BR>&gt;thanks,&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=3D20 <BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
=
Dale&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt;& ;gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;&lt;BR& ;gt;&gt;&=
gt;=20
"John Macy" =3D<BR>&gt;&lt;&lt;A=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
=3D<BR>&gt;href=3D3D"<A=20
=
href=3D'mailto:spamlessjohn@johnmacy.com">spamlessjohn@johnmacy.com</A>&a=
mp;g'>mailto:spamlessjohn@johnmacy.com"&gt;spamlessjohn@johnmacy.com&lt;/=
A&gt;&amp;g</A>=3D<BR>&gt;t;=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
wrote:&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;Glad you like =
them, Tom.=20
=3D<BR>&gt;I think=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; they are&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;a =
fantastic=20
value. I use my 46's over =3D<BR>&gt;my=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
Royers&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;all the time, especially on electric=20
=3D<BR>&gt;guitars. =3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; I&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;know =
Darren Rahn=20
for the group here got a =
=3D<BR>&gt;pair&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=3D20 <BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;also and is verry pleased, too. Even the=20
=3D<BR>&gt;unmatched,&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=3D20 <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;stock =
transformer=20
46's are pretty nice :)&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
=3D<BR>&gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=3D20 <BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;"Tom Bruhl" &lt;&lt;A=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; href=3D3D"<A=20
=
href=3D'mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>>=3D20'>mailto=
:arpegio@comcast.net"&gt;arpegio@comcast.net&lt;/A&gt;&gt;=3D20</A><BR>&g=
t;&nbsp;=20
wrote:&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
=3D<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Had a=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; project that called for =
tenor sax,=20
vocals&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;and a =3D<BR>&gt;little =
egg=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
shakin'.&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Used 'em =
on=20
=3D<BR>&gt;everything=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; through the Precision =
8&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;with really great=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
results.&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;The best words to=20
=3D<BR>&gt;describe=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; them are natural and not=20
hyped.&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;to remove the room=20
=3D<BR>&gt;coming=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; off the backside of the figure=20
8.&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Vocals didn't =
=3D<BR>&gt;need=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
compression. I was singing and watching&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
=3D<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;levels so=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; that made this =
possible. They did=20
seem slightly&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;compressed =
sounding=20
though. Even when the wave =
=3D<BR>&gt;got&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=3D20<BR >&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt;squared off in Paris it didn't gack or even sound=20
=3D<BR>&gt;clipped.&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=3D20 <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;I =
rerecorded=20
those spots because they looked=20
=3D<BR>&gt;bad...&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=3D20 <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;Odd but =
kinda cool.=20
=3D3D20&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt;Vocals in the mix need lots of high end. Not a=20
problem=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; either.&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;It was a =
disco=20
thing with that sizzly =3D<BR>&gt;sound that=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; only a =

condensor&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;should get. What I found was that=20
=3D<BR>&gt;these=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; things took Paris' =
eq=3D3D20&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;sweetly. The =3D<BR>&gt;esses didn't=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; go =
over the edge=20
and tone was smooth&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;as =3D<BR>&gt;silk. I=20
did=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; use La2a's across them at mixdown though. The=20
eggs&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;recorded nicely and =
again=20
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&gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;These are the first ribbons I've used =3D<BR>&gt;except=20
for=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; some Beyer M160s =
way&lt;BR&gt;=3D3D&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; =20
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on=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
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guitar. I'll find out about that when a 7 horn band =
comes=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
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=3D3D&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; =3D<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;compared=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =

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is what I=20
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&gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;Thanks to John =
Macy for=20
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------=_NextPart_000_0094_01C5DD93.AA2241F0--I put the Digipatch software on the back burner in order to try the rest of
your suggestions first.

I'll be damned if it didn't work.

Doug, you're a peach. My feeling of victory was electric. Such an easy
15-minute fix.

What sort of dodginess should I expect? You spoke of unreliability...

Jimmy

"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
news:43656037@linux...
> Do you have the Digipatch software properly loaded so you can control the
> routing from the Digipatch control panel on your computer desktop? If not,
> this could be your problem......just a routing issue.......however, having
> said this..........if you have done this and still aren't having any joy,
> then it sounds to me like your MEC on Submix 2 isn't clocking properly.
This
> is the rub with using multiple MECs with an external clock. Sometimes
there
> a train wreck with the clocking.
>
> Have you added the UseHouseSync=1 line to your Paris .cfg file?
> Subsequently, have you opened Paris from the Paris.exe file in the Emu
> directory in your Program Files directory, set the sync source to Word
> Clock, then saved this to your Emu folder as defaultproject.ppj?
>
> Also, always be sure to turn your house clock on before you power up your
> MECs and then afterwards boot Paris from a desktop shortcut to the
> defaultproject.ppj that you created and saved in the Emu directory.
>
> You gotta' jump through a number of hoops and then it's not always
reliable.
> I always boot up my system at least two hours before a session to get it
> stabilized before the talent shows up.
>
> If you have done all of the above things and you're still not getting the
> other MECs to clok to WC, launch your defaultproject.ppj and then toggle
the
> sync source to internal. Let it sit until it quits popping and
> fussing........then toggle it back to WC and let it pop and fuss until it
> settles down. You can usually tell when it's locked up because you will
hear
> a loud pop, then it stabilized. this can sometimes take 5-10 seconds to
> happen.
>
> Dontcha' just love Paris?
>
> ;o)
>
>
>
> "uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:43654494@linux...
> > Howdy.
> >
> > I'm in the process of getting my Paris rig patched digitally to my
> Kurzweil
> > FX boxes via an MAudio Digipatch.
> >
> > As far as I am able to tell, I have everything physically patched
> properly.
> > As a matter of fact, I get word-clock lock on both Kurzweil boxes from
my
> > Lucid master clock (via the SPDIF ins and outs on Paris), and the first
FX
> > box sends and receives audio data seamlessly, at least on submix1/MEC1
via
> > an aux send set to "external".
> >
> > I am not, however, having any luck after that. No other Digipatch
> "patches"
> > seem to work, whether it's simultaneously patching the 2nd FX box to
> > submix2/MEC2, or switching the 1st FX box to another submix/MEC.
> >
> > I have a three-card, three-MEC system, and thought I has sussed out the
> > layout of my physical cabling pretty well. Is there something I don't
> > understand about the Paris aux modules? I was under the impression that
> each
> > submix had its own complement of 8 aux modules, independently of the
other
> > submixes...I'm probably being stupid somehow...
> >
> > Confused,
> > Jimmy
> >
> >
>
>I agree with everything you just said about plugins. Exteral harware just
blows the doors off virtual.

Mike


"uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>I do not use plugins, and haven't for years. They do not sound as good as
>high-quality outboard equipment, not on any level, and that's putting it
>very politely. I am shocked that companies like Waves make any money at
all
>selling those kinds of products.
>
>Paris is amazing, but I use it's EQ sparingly at most. Ulitmately, for me,
>it's a glorified tape machine with an awesome built-in editing capability,
>plus some well-documented gain-staging "tips and tricks" that sound simply
>delicious.
>
>Jimmy
>
>
>"Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote in message
>news:43652386$1@linux...
>> I've found with software less is almost always more. I went through my
>plug
>> in craze phase.. ironically, I suspect phase and calculations are what
>> muddied up the mix. I know that we as an industry are in trouble when
>every
>> year, or less, we have to evaluate our tools and think we need something
>> new. I'm all down with improvement, but if things are growing 'that'
>fast,
>> then maybe we should have a look at what are we really using to begin
>with.
>> Change can't generally happen that quickly and be for the long term good.
>> Computers are a funny beast man.
>> AA
>>
>> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
>> news:43651390@linux...
>> > Ya know............Im sitting here listening to some *roughs* of a
>> > tracking
>> > session I did Friday night. No compression, a very tiny bit of
>subtractive
>> > EQ, a tiny touch of NoLimit on the mix bus. That's it. The rest of the
>> > story
>> > is using the Paris EQ makeup gain and the fader gain stages to get the
>> > *mixphat thing going*.
>> >
>> > I swear guys.......this sounds better to my ears than all of the
>1,000,000
>> > gobazzillion plugin options I have available when using the SX rig
>during
>> > mixdown.
>> >
>> > It's pretty minimalist stuff to begin with......acoustic rythym guitar,
>> > acoustic lead guitar, fiddle, electric bass and acoustic drum
>> > kit........but
>> > that seems to be all I do these days anyway.
>> >
>> > Sometimes less is truly more.
>> >
>> > Deej
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OU.com> wrote:
>OK then.... so how would I route it hard-
>connection-wise... USB? Firewire?
>
>Neil
>

It works over your network connection – TCPIP. As long as you don’t have
a software firewall blocking internal computer-to-computer traffic, it should
work fine. You do need to run basic Windows or Macintosh networking and have
both computers on the network.

I run a complex setup where multiple windows PCs and Macs all communicate
with each other using a combination of ADAT, SPDIF and analog interconnections
plus Wormhole interconnections, but WormHole works fine in a simple two computer
setup.

WormHole has two basic operational modes:
1. You send from computer A (from a VST insert) to computer B (to a VST insert).
This is the mode you would use to send tracks from a computer running a program
like Cubase to a second computer running Paris as a summing bus.
2. Your WormHole insert sends to, and returns from a second computer.
In this mode WormHole is inserting a loop that allows you to go to a second
computer, pick up something like a convolution reverb, and return it to the
same channel as if it was a local effect. This is just like the Waves hardware
boxes work. In this mode WormHole can use ADC if the host supports it.It's weird, how many people are using native plugins.

I've not used the UAD-1, so I felt the need to pipe up with that caveat.

But it is astounding how bad plugins sound, and how much time you can spend
trying to get them to sound good; but when you plug in an 1176 or a 1073 EQ
or a nice FX box (or even an RNC compressor), it takes about 10 seconds
before things just make more sense sonically. Outboard is still light-years
ahead of plugins, in my somewhat informed opinion.

Jimmy



"Mike Audet" <mike@mikeF-SPAMaudet.com> wrote in message
news:4365825c$1@linux...
>
> I agree with everything you just said about plugins. Exteral harware just
> blows the doors off virtual.
>
> Mike
>
>
> "uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >I do not use plugins, and haven't for years. They do not sound as good as
> >high-quality outboard equipment, not on any level, and that's putting it
> >very politely. I am shocked that companies like Waves make any money at
> all
> >selling those kinds of products.
> >
> >Paris is amazing, but I use it's EQ sparingly at most. Ulitmately, for
me,
> >it's a glorified tape machine with an awesome built-in editing
capability,
> >plus some well-documented gain-staging "tips and tricks" that sound
simply
> >delicious.
> >
> >Jimmy
> >
> >
> >"Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote in message
> >news:43652386$1@linux...
> >> I've found with software less is almost always more. I went through my
> >plug
> >> in craze phase.. ironically, I suspect phase and calculations are what
> >> muddied up the mix. I know that we as an industry are in trouble when
> >every
> >> year, or less, we have to evaluate our tools and think we need
something
> >> new. I'm all down with improvement, but if things are growing 'that'
> >fast,
> >> then maybe we should have a look at what are we really using to begin
> >with.
> >> Change can't generally happen that quickly and be for the long term
good.
> >> Computers are a funny beast man.
> >> AA
> >>
> >> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
> >> news:43651390@linux...
> >> > Ya know............Im sitting here listening to some *roughs* of a
> >> > tracking
> >> > session I did Friday night. No compression, a very tiny bit of
> >subtractive
> >> > EQ, a tiny touch of NoLimit on the mix bus. That's it. The rest of
the
> >> > story
> >> > is using the Paris EQ makeup gain and the fader gain stages to get
the
> >> > *mixphat thing going*.
> >> >
> >> > I swear guys.......this sounds better to my ears than all of the
> >1,000,000
> >> > gobazzillion plugin options I have available when using the SX rig
> >during
> >> > mixdown.
> >> >
> >> > It's pretty minimalist stuff to begin with......acoustic rythym
guitar,
> >> > acoustic lead guitar, fiddle, electric bass and acoustic drum
> >> > kit........but
> >> > that seems to be all I do these days anyway.
> >> >
> >> > Sometimes less is truly more.
> >> >
> >> > Deej
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>Can I use Wormhole with a standalone VST rack of some sort to route audio
>from a Paris insert or aux, though the VST rack and then return it to
>Paris..........with 40ms latency?? I will want to use my 4 x UAD-1 cards
in
>the VST Rack and I will need low enough latency in Paris that I can keep
my
>tracks in Paris and use the Paris mix automation without problem. I think
I
>saw Dimitrios post here that he had achieved somewhere around 40ms latency
>using the FXPansion VST/DX wrapper? Not sure why he would need this if the
>UAD-1 cards are in another machine...........but anyway........can this
be
>done somehow? If it involves using Cubase SX.........well, I've already
got
>that happening with no latency as long as all tracks are being played back
>in SX. I need the tracks to stay in Paris and to process them either
>elsewhere, or in Paris with low enough latency that I can set up a mix
>template with 48 tracks and mix in Paris using the Paris
>automation............wait, didn't I already say that?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Deej
>

Deej,
I have not used Wormhole that way from Paris (I usually use Wormhole to send
to Paris), but I have used it that way from Performer.

I go from Performer on my Mac, to a PC (not Paris) and pick up PC only effects,
and return the effect to Performer. Performer automatically compensates for
the latency using PDC.
Generally I will do this with an ADAT loop, but when I run out of ADAT channels,
I use Wormhole. The ADAT channels are not PDC corrected but the WH plugs
are. I don’t pay any attention to the delay since it is compensated for and
it adds no additional delay to a normal mix.

I also use it to gain access to the VSTI instruments that came with Logic
Pro. I have Logic on a second Mac. I send MIDI using MIDI over LAN CP and
return the VSTI tracks using Wormhole. That way I can use Performer as my
sequencer but use Sculpture and the other nice Logic instruments. In a complex
mix, I may have Wormhole going all over the place. It should appeal to you!!

Fee demos of both the Mac and PC version are on the website, with the normal
periodic interrupts.

GeneJimmy.........you may not have any problems at all. I posted a word.doc of
my routing matrix in another post here earlier. I've got a *very*
complicated system here. There is a certain boot sequence that I use that is
fairly reliable, but not always. Sometimes, if the system won't lock up, I
have to just shut things down and start over. A major factor in this
clocking tr4ain wreck is having over 60 digital I/O's interfacing between
the two DAWs and other digital gear. One wimpy handshake and the whole think
can go south. It's a huge bunch of variables , a pair of Digipatch units and
routing of digital I/O of outboard units using various format converters to
get everything happy and the spdif I/O of Paris and RME HDSP units as
additional patchbays. Endless possibilities for trouble. I must say
though........when it's up and running it's an awesome beast.

"uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:43657ac9@linux...
> I put the Digipatch software on the back burner in order to try the rest
of
> your suggestions first.
>
> I'll be damned if it didn't work.
>
> Doug, you're a peach. My feeling of victory was electric. Such an easy
> 15-minute fix.
>
> What sort of dodginess should I expect? You spoke of unreliability...
>
> Jimmy
>
> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
> news:43656037@linux...
> > Do you have the Digipatch software properly loaded so you can control
the
> > routing from the Digipatch control panel on your computer desktop? If
not,
> > this could be your problem......just a routing issue.......however,
having
> > said this..........if you have done this and still aren't having any
joy,
> > then it sounds to me like your MEC on Submix 2 isn't clocking properly.
> This
> > is the rub with using multiple MECs with an external clock. Sometimes
> there
> > a train wreck with the clocking.
> >
> > Have you added the UseHouseSync=1 line to your Paris .cfg file?
> > Subsequently, have you opened Paris from the Paris.exe file in the Emu
> > directory in your Program Files directory, set the sync source to Word
> > Clock, then saved this to your Emu folder as defaultproject.ppj?
> >
> > Also, always be sure to turn your house clock on before you power up
your
> > MECs and then afterwards boot Paris from a desktop shortcut to the
> > defaultproject.ppj that you created and saved in the Emu directory.
> >
> > You gotta' jump through a number of hoops and then it's not always
> reliable.
> > I always boot up my system at least two hours before a session to get it
> > stabilized before the talent shows up.
> >
> > If you have done all of the above things and you're still not getting
the
> > other MECs to clok to WC, launch your defaultproject.ppj and then toggle
> the
> > sync source to internal. Let it sit until it quits popping and
> > fussing........then toggle it back to WC and let it pop and fuss until
it
> > settles down. You can usually tell when it's locked up because you will
> hear
> > a loud pop, then it stabilized. this can sometimes take 5-10 seconds to
> > happen.
> >
> > Dontcha' just love Paris?
> >
> > ;o)
> >
> >
> >
> > "uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> > news:43654494@linux...
> > > Howdy.
> > >
> > > I'm in the process of getting my Paris rig patched digitally to my
> > Kurzweil
> > > FX boxes via an MAudio Digipatch.
> > >
> > > As far as I am able to tell, I have everything physically patched
> > properly.
> > > As a matter of fact, I get word-clock lock on both Kurzweil boxes from
> my
> > > Lucid master clock (via the SPDIF ins and outs on Paris), and the
first
> FX
> > > box sends and receives audio data seamlessly, at least on submix1/MEC1
> via
> > > an aux send set to "external".
> > >
> > > I am not, however, having any luck after that. No other Digipatch
> > "patches"
> > > seem to work, whether it's simultaneously patching the 2nd FX box to
> > > submix2/MEC2, or switching the 1st FX box to another submix/MEC.
> > >
> > > I have a three-card, three-MEC system, and thought I has sussed out
the
> > > layout of my physical cabling pretty well. Is there something I don't
> > > understand about the Paris aux modules? I was under the impression
that
> > each
> > > submix had its own complement of 8 aux modules, independently of the
> other
> > > submixes...I'm probably being stupid somehow...
> > >
> > > Confused,
> > > Jimmy
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>I would sag to my knees and cry like a little bitch just to be asked to
begin to understand a system like that. I'm a life-long bookish
intellectual, but I always shied away from things of a more mathematical or
technical nature. I can get the math stuff if I try, but it takes a mighty
effort to overcome the fear and loathing.

Things are absolutely solid here: so far, so good. It sounds absolutely
fantastic. SOOOOO easy just to push a switch and re-do the whole
configuration between 3 MECs and 2 FX boxes.

You know what this calls for, right?

More FX boxes! Yay!

By the way, who came up with all this methodology? It's mond-boggling. I
would be dead in the water without the help of this NG (a lot of "The Deej"
recently, please don't jump ship, dooood....)

Jimmy



"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
news:43658d5e@linux...
> Jimmy.........you may not have any problems at all. I posted a word.doc of
> my routing matrix in another post here earlier. I've got a *very*
> complicated system here. There is a certain boot sequence that I use that
is
> fairly reliable, but not always. Sometimes, if the system won't lock up, I
> have to just shut things down and start over. A major factor in this
> clocking tr4ain wreck is having over 60 digital I/O's interfacing between
> the two DAWs and other digital gear. One wimpy handshake and the whole
think
> can go south. It's a huge bunch of variables , a pair of Digipatch units
and
> routing of digital I/O of outboard units using various format converters
to
> get everything happy and the spdif I/O of Paris and RME HDSP units as
> additional patchbays. Endless possibilities for trouble. I must say
> though........when it's up and running it's an awesome beast.
>
> "uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:43657ac9@linux...
> > I put the Digipatch software on the back burner in order to try the rest
> of
> > your suggestions first.
> >
> > I'll be damned if it didn't work.
> >
> > Doug, you're a peach. My feeling of victory was electric. Such an easy
> > 15-minute fix.
> >
> > What sort of dodginess should I expect? You spoke of unreliability...
> >
> > Jimmy
> >
> > "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
> > news:43656037@linux...
> > > Do you have the Digipatch software properly loaded so you can control
> the
> > > routing from the Digipatch control panel on your computer desktop? If
> not,
> > > this could be your problem......just a routing issue.......however,
> having
> > > said this..........if you have done this and still aren't having any
> joy,
> > > then it sounds to me like your MEC on Submix 2 isn't clocking
properly.
> > This
> > > is the rub with using multiple MECs with an external clock. Sometimes
> > there
> > > a train wreck with the clocking.
> > >
> > > Have you added the UseHouseSync=1 line to your Paris .cfg file?
> > > Subsequently, have you opened Paris from the Paris.exe file in the Emu
> > > directory in your Program Files directory, set the sync source to Word
> > > Clock, then saved this to your Emu folder as defaultproject.ppj?
> > >
> > > Also, always be sure to turn your house clock on before you power up
> your
> > > MECs and then afterwards boot Paris from a desktop shortcut to the
> > > defaultproject.ppj that you created and saved in the Emu directory.
> > >
> > > You gotta' jump through a number of hoops and then it's not always
> > reliable.
> > > I always boot up my system at least two hours before a session to get
it
> > > stabilized before the talent shows up.
> > >
> > > If you have done all of the above things and you're still not getting
> the
> > > other MECs to clok to WC, launch your defaultproject.ppj and then
toggle
> > the
> > > sync source to internal. Let it sit until it quits popping and
> > > fussing........then toggle it back to WC and let it pop and fuss until
> it
> > > settles down. You can usually tell when it's locked up because you
will
> > hear
> > > a loud pop, then it stabilized. this can sometimes take 5-10 seconds
to
> > > happen.
> > >
> > > Dontcha' just love Paris?
> > >
> > > ;o)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> > > news:43654494@linux...
> > > > Howdy.
> > > >
> > > > I'm in the process of getting my Paris rig patched digitally to my
> > > Kurzweil
> > > > FX boxes via an MAudio Digipatch.
> > > >
> > > > As far as I am able to tell, I have everything physically patched
> > > properly.
> > > > As a matter of fact, I get word-clock lock on both Kurzweil boxes
from
> > my
> > > > Lucid master clock (via the SPDIF ins and outs on Paris), and the
> first
> > FX
> > > > box sends and receives audio data seamlessly, at least on
submix1/MEC1
> > via
> > > > an aux send set to "external".
> > > >
> > > > I am not, however, having any luck after that. No other Digipatch
> > > "patches"
> > > > seem to work, whether it's simultaneously patching the 2nd FX box to
> > > > submix2/MEC2, or switching the 1st FX box to another submix/MEC.
> > > >
> > > > I have a three-card, three-MEC system, and thought I has sussed out
> the
> > > > layout of my physical cabling pretty well. Is there something I
don't
> > > > understand about the Paris aux modules? I was under the impression
> that
> > > each
> > > > submix had its own complement of 8 aux modules, independently of the
> > other
> > > > submixes...I'm probably being stupid somehow...
> > > >
> > > > Confused,
> > > > Jimmy
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>thanks for the pointer. i've yet to find the one that was on the
Ensoniq site which gave a step by step for using the aux sends to
create a headphone mix, but i'll keep looking.

thanks again.

jon

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 19:05:02 -0400, John <no@no.com> wrote:

>www.kfocus.com/paris
>
>Look under Paris, _Setup, Queue Mixes
>
>jon chaikin wrote:
>> i used to have a tutorial that showed how to setup a headphone mix
>> using the external effects system. does anyone still have a copy?
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> jon"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>Ya know............Im sitting here listening to some *roughs* of a tracking
>session I did Friday night. No compression, a very tiny bit of subtractive
>EQ, a tiny touch of NoLimit on the mix bus. That's it. The rest of the story
>is using the Paris EQ makeup gain and the fader gain stages to get the
>*mixphat thing going*.
>
>I swear guys.......this sounds better to my ears than all of the 1,000,000
>gobazzillion plugin options I have available when using the SX rig during
>mixdown.
>
>It's pretty minimalist stuff to begin with......acoustic rythym guitar,
>acoustic lead guitar, fiddle, electric bass and acoustic drum kit........but
>that seems to be all I do these days anyway.
>
>Sometimes less is truly more.
>
>Deej
>
Good hardware kills almost all software, but if you have not worked with
Weiss or Algorithmix software (I own neither), you are not judging based
on the best available options.
Others like the GML eq plugin are also quite good. I don’t mind using plugins
if I am intentionally shaping a sound, but I certainly agree that if you
want to maintain maximum realism and fidelity you should stick with GOOD
hardware. Even when using hardware, less is more if you are looking for classic
hi-fi recordings.
Nothing really new here. This discussion has been going on since the beginning
of digital recording. The only thing that has changes is that moderate priced
plugin options have gotten considerably better in the last few years.
Give me a real Pultech anytime.
GeneI'm sure this is the second post you've made to this effect.

I think life is trying to tell you something. ;o)

Cheers,
Kim.

"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>Ya know............Im sitting here listening to some *roughs* of a tracking
>session I did Friday night. No compression, a very tiny bit of subtractive
>EQ, a tiny touch of NoLimit on the mix bus. That's it. The rest of the story
>is using the Paris EQ makeup gain and the fader gain stages to get the
>*mixphat thing going*.
>
>I swear guys.......this sounds better to my ears than all of the 1,000,000
>gobazzillion plugin options I have available when using the SX rig during
>mixdown.
>
>It's pretty minimalist stuff to begin with......acoustic rythym guitar,
>acoustic lead guitar, fiddle, electric bass and acoustic drum kit........but
>that seems to be all I do these days anyway.
>
>Sometimes less is truly more.
>
>Deej
>
>Geno... I think that is WAAY too complex for my feeble mind - I
don't even know what you're referring to in terms of
networkware, etc.

Need to get in front of the power curve, apparently.

Neil



gene lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote:
>
>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OU.com> wrote:
>>OK then.... so how would I route it hard-
>>connection-wise... USB? Firewire?
>>
>>Neil
>>
>
>It works over your network connection – TCPIP. As long as you don’t have
>a software firewall blocking internal computer-to-computer traffic, it should
>work fine. You do need to run basic Windows or Macintosh networking and
have
>both computers on the network.
>
>I run a complex setup where multiple windows PCs and Macs all communicate
>with each other using a combination of ADAT, SPDIF and analog interconnections
>plus Wormhole interconnections, but WormHole works fine in a simple two
computer
>setup.
>
>WormHole has two basic operational modes:
>1. You send from computer A (from a VST insert) to computer B (to a VST
insert).
>This is the mode you would use to send tracks from a computer running a
program
>like Cubase to a second computer running Paris as a summing bus.
>2. Your WormHole insert sends to, and returns from a second computer.
>In this mode WormHole is inserting a loop that allows you to go to a second
>computer, pick up something like a convolution reverb, and return it to
the
>same channel as if it was a local effect. This is just like the Waves hardware
>boxes work. In this mode WormHole can use ADC if the host supports it.
>
>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>Geno... I think that is WAAY too complex for my feeble mind - I
>don't even know what you're referring to in terms of
>networkware, etc.
>
>Need to get in front of the power curve, apparently.
>
>Neil
>
Now Wait Just a Damn Minute!
My mind is just as feeble as the next guy.

I may be over-explaining.> By the way, who came up with all this methodology?

Well.........I cobbled mine together with the advice of others, like Gene
Lennon, John Macy, Brian T, Aaron, Mic Cross, Cory Bonnett and others who
had built the larger rigs. The clock is the starting point to go beyond 2 x
MECs. then it's just a matter of what you have and what you want to do with
it. It really is simple once you've got your templates set up.

;o)
"uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:43658fa7@linux...
> I would sag to my knees and cry like a little bitch just to be asked to
> begin to understand a system like that. I'm a life-long bookish
> intellectual, but I always shied away from things of a more mathematical
or
> technical nature. I can get the math stuff if I try, but it takes a mighty
> effort to overcome the fear and loathing.
>
> Things are absolutely solid here: so far, so good. It sounds absolutely
> fantastic. SOOOOO easy just to push a switch and re-do the whole
> configuration between 3 MECs and 2 FX boxes.
>
> You know what this calls for, right?
>
> More FX boxes! Yay!
>
> By the way, who came up with all this methodology? It's mond-boggling. I
> would be dead in the water without the help of this NG (a lot of "The
Deej"
> recently, please don't jump ship, dooood....)
>
> Jimmy
>
>
>
> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
> news:43658d5e@linux...
> > Jimmy.........you may not have any problems at all. I posted a word.doc
of
> > my routing matrix in another post here earlier. I've got a *very*
> > complicated system here. There is a certain boot sequence that I use
that
> is
> > fairly reliable, but not always. Sometimes, if the system won't lock up,
I
> > have to just shut things down and start over. A major factor in this
> > clocking tr4ain wreck is having over 60 digital I/O's interfacing
between
> > the two DAWs and other digital gear. One wimpy handshake and the whole
> think
> > can go south. It's a huge bunch of variables , a pair of Digipatch units
> and
> > routing of digital I/O of outboard units using various format converters
> to
> > get everything happy and the spdif I/O of Paris and RME HDSP units as
> > additional patchbays. Endless possibilities for trouble. I must say
> > though........when it's up and running it's an awesome beast.
> >
> > "uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> > news:43657ac9@linux...
> > > I put the Digipatch software on the back burner in order to try the
rest
> > of
> > > your suggestions first.
> > >
> > > I'll be damned if it didn't work.
> > >
> > > Doug, you're a peach. My feeling of victory was electric. Such an easy
> > > 15-minute fix.
> > >
> > > What sort of dodginess should I expect? You spoke of unreliability...
> > >
> > > Jimmy
> > >
> > > "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
> > > news:43656037@linux...
> > > > Do you have the Digipatch software properly loaded so you can
control
> > the
> > > > routing from the Digipatch control panel on your computer desktop?
If
> > not,
> > > > this could be your problem......just a routing issue.......however,
> > having
> > > > said this..........if you have done this and still aren't having any
> > joy,
> > > > then it sounds to me like your MEC on Submix 2 isn't clocking
> properly.
> > > This
> > > > is the rub with using multiple MECs with an external clock.
Sometimes
> > > there
> > > > a train wreck with the clocking.
> > > >
> > > > Have you added the UseHouseSync=1 line to your Paris .cfg file?
> > > > Subsequently, have you opened Paris from the Paris.exe file in the
Emu
> > > > directory in your Program Files directory, set the sync source to
Word
> > > > Clock, then saved this to your Emu folder as defaultproject.ppj?
> > > >
> > > > Also, always be sure to turn your house clock on before you power up
> > your
> > > > MECs and then afterwards boot Paris from a desktop shortcut to the
> > > > defaultproject.ppj that you created and saved in the Emu directory.
> > > >
> > > > You gotta' jump through a number of hoops and then it's not always
> > > reliable.
> > > > I always boot up my system at least two hours before a session to
get
> it
> > > > stabilized before the talent shows up.
> > > >
> > > > If you have done all of the above things and you're still not
getting
> > the
> > > > other MECs to clok to WC, launch your defaultproject.ppj and then
> toggle
> > > the
> > > > sync source to internal. Let it sit until it quits popping and
> > > > fussing........then toggle it back to WC and let it pop and fuss
until
> > it
> > > > settles down. You can usually tell when it's locked up because you
> will
> > > hear
> > > > a loud pop, then it stabilized. this can sometimes take 5-10 seconds
> to
> > > > happen.
> > > >
> > > > Dontcha' just love Paris?
> > > >
> > > > ;o)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:43654494@linux...
> > > > > Howdy.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm in the process of getting my Paris rig patched digitally to my
> > > > Kurzweil
> > > > > FX boxes via an MAudio Digipatch.
> > > > >
> > > > > As far as I am able to tell, I have everything physically patched
> > > > properly.
> > > > > As a matter of fact, I get word-clock lock on both Kurzweil boxes
> from
> > > my
> > > > > Lucid master clock (via the SPDIF ins and outs on Paris), and the
> > first
> > > FX
> > > > > box sends and receives audio data seamlessly, at least on
> submix1/MEC1
> > > via
> > > > > an aux send set to "external".
> > > > >
> > > > > I am not, however, having any luck after that. No other Digipatch
> > > > "patches"
> > > > > seem to work, whether it's simultaneously patching the 2nd FX box
to
> > > > > submix2/MEC2, or switching the 1st FX box to another submix/MEC.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a three-card, three-MEC system, and thought I has sussed
out
> > the
> > > > > layout of my physical cabling pretty well. Is there something I
> don't
> > > > > understand about the Paris aux modules? I was under the impression
> > that
> > > > each
> > > > > submix had its own complement of 8 aux modules, independently of
the
> > > other
> > > > > submixes...I'm probably being stupid somehow...
> > > > >
> > > > > Confused,
> > > > > Jimmy
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>If I could just get automatic delay compensation in Paris, I'd ditch the
monster SX rig in a heartbeat and just keep the Multiface for it's
converters and for streaming a few VSTi's over one lightpipe connection.
That's all I'd really need.

Futzing around with the slip'n slide thing during a mix is what drives me
nuts.

;o)

"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:436594a2$1@linux...
>
>
> I'm sure this is the second post you've made to this effect.
>
> I think life is trying to tell you something. ;o)
>
> Cheers,
> Kim.
>
> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
> >Ya know............Im sitting here listening to some *roughs* of a
tracking
> >session I did Friday night. No compression, a very tiny bit of
subtractive
> >EQ, a tiny touch of NoLimit on the mix bus. That's it. The rest of the
story
> >is using the Paris EQ makeup gain and the fader gain stages to get the
> >*mixphat thing going*.
> >
> >I swear guys.......this sounds better to my ears than all of the
1,000,000
> >gobazzillion plugin options I have available when using the SX rig during
> >mixdown.
> >
> >It's pretty minimalist stuff to begin with......acoustic rythym guitar,
> >acoustic lead guitar, fiddle, electric bass and acoustic drum
kit........but
> >that seems to be all I do these days anyway.
> >
> >Sometimes less is truly more.
> >
> >Deej
> >
> >
>Pour Grammor!!!!!????? Me???
My Ass!!!!
I graduate top onners at me scoool !!!!


"EK Sound" <spamnot.info@eksoundNO.com> wrote in message
news:4363adea@linux...
> That's a problem with an international forum... subtleties get lost in
> translation. Yes, Rick WAS joking at Brandon's poor grammar! :-)
>
> David.
>
> TC wrote:
> > Hey Dimitrios,
> >
> > I think he was joking, it was a pun at Brandon's wording of "I will buy
> > Dimitrios"
> >
> > Meaning he will purchase you, Dimitrios, with cash money, not anything
> > to do with wormhole..
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > TC
> >
> > Dimitrios wrote:
> >
> >> Dear Rick,
> >> I am really dissapointed in your post.
> >> If you don't care buying thats ok but saying that it is slavery to buy
> >> something
> >> that is so innovative for Paris and not only and considering the som
many
> >> hours spent to make things smooth for Paris and wormhole as much as
> >> possible
> >> without me being involved at all in the sales of this plugin that
really
> >> makes me feel sad.
> >> I was hoping that you at least would appreciatte all the efoorts here
and
> >> that wouild be supporting those nice and cheap plugins that help Paris
..
> >> I see people here payinmg 250 $ for a single adat card so for 3 adat
> >> cards
> >> 750 $.
> >> plus a Mec 150$ almost a 1000 $ to just have 24 adat 20 bit tracks
> >> from one
> >> PC to another.
> >> Now a simple plugin lets you have 24 bit (or 32bit floating until you
use
> >> Paris dsp ) of 24 audio tracks for a normal 2600 Ghz cpu.
> >> So if you think that I am giving you guys a hard time then sorry I
> >> will stop
> >> what I am doing these last months.
> >> thanks to all of you anyway.
> >> Regards,
> >> Dimitrios
> >>
> >> rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> "i will buy Dimitrios"...dude...that's slavery...even in a non pc
> >>> correct society.
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 07:32:03 -0500, "Brandon"
> >>> <brandon_goodwin@REMOVETHISsbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> i will buy Dimitrios.
> >>>> brandon
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> "Dimitrios" <musurgio@otenet.gr> wrote in message
> >>>> news:4361ea71$1@linux...
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hello to everyone.
> >>>>> After my last conversation with Adrian -wormhole's author- I have
> >>>>> concluded
> >>>>> that wormhole is not selling well ( where are we guys ?) so maybe
> >>>>> major
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> updates
> >>>>> will get longer to support as he has to concentrate his efforts to
> >>>>> "selling"
> >>>>> appz.
> >>>>> I wonder how we Parisians expect plugin authors like Adrian to
support
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> plugins
> >>>>> like wormhole which are a godsend for Paris with tremendous present
> >>>>> and
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> future
> >>>>> possibilities... (he is thinking of making wormhole lighter so to
have
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> even
> >>>>> more instances).
> >>>>> I don't see us people here supporting wormhole and that makes me sad
> >>
> >>
> >> and
> >>
> >>>>> maybe all my efforts toward this direction will fail somehow.
> >>>>> If we don't buy it how can we ask him for this and that ?
> >>>>> Even two or three buys would not justify major -Paris oriented-
> >>>>> updates
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> with
> >>>>> wormhole...
> >>>>> Please sign here if you care for using wormhole even as two channel
> >>>>> cross
> >>>>> bridge beetween two computers (NOTE IT CAN BE USED ON SAME COMPUTER
> >>>>> WITH
> >>>>> DIFFERENT APPZ TOO).
> >>>>> If we sign enouph people here (enouph depends I would say 10 and
over
> >>
> >>
> >> I
> >>
> >>>>> will
> >>>>> kindly ask for a small discount for mass purchase.
> >>>>> Please try wormhole and see for yourself how great this plugin is.
> >>>>> We need Adrian (convince him make appz suited to Paris) and we
> >>>>> certainly
> >>>>> need wormhole.
> >>>>> It will keep Paris alive for things to come no matter where audio
> >>>>> technology
> >>>>> will go.
> >>>>> You will always have Paris thus connected with modern pc's doing
what
> >>
> >>
> >> it
> >>
> >>>>> is known to do best, sounding good when summing...
> >>>>> Please forgive me if I am being so pushy with this but noone else
> >>>>> except
> >>>>> for Adrian (till now) has showed so much interest to help us ,Paris
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> users.
> >>>>> I wanna convince him make an automatic LATENCY compensator for VST
> >>>>> plugins
> >>>>> which I think would be great if succeeded.
> >>>>> Believe me if only two-three Paris users will sign this I will be
> >>>>> having
> >>>>> no guts to ask him that or anything else.
> >>>>> This plugin sells for 49 $ only...
> >>>>> Please respond with signing also.
> >>>>> With regards,
> >>>>> Dimitrios
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >>It was trial and error, step by step....

Rock-solid evening of music. Thanks for the help.

I wish I could offer a fraction of the help I have received here over the
years. It's a silly thing to think I could.

Jimmy


"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
news:4365a17d@linux...
> > By the way, who came up with all this methodology?
>
> Well.........I cobbled mine together with the advice of others, like Gene
> Lennon, John Macy, Brian T, Aaron, Mic Cross, Cory Bonnett and others who
> had built the larger rigs. The clock is the starting point to go beyond 2
x
> MECs. then it's just a matter of what you have and what you want to do
with
> it. It really is simple once you've got your templates set up.
>
> ;o)
> "uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:43658fa7@linux...
> > I would sag to my knees and cry like a little bitch just to be asked to
> > begin to understand a system like that. I'm a life-long bookish
> > intellectual, but I always shied away from things of a more mathematical
> or
> > technical nature. I can get the math stuff if I try, but it takes a
mighty
> > effort to overcome the fear and loathing.
> >
> > Things are absolutely solid here: so far, so good. It sounds absolutely
> > fantastic. SOOOOO easy just to push a switch and re-do the whole
> > configuration between 3 MECs and 2 FX boxes.
> >
> > You know what this calls for, right?
> >
> > More FX boxes! Yay!
> >
> > By the way, who came up with all this methodology? It's mond-boggling. I
> > would be dead in the water without the help of this NG (a lot of "The
> Deej"
> > recently, please don't jump ship, dooood....)
> >
> > Jimmy
> >
> >
> >
> > "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
> > news:43658d5e@linux...
> > > Jimmy.........you may not have any problems at all. I posted a
word.doc
> of
> > > my routing matrix in another post here earlier. I've got a *very*
> > > complicated system here. There is a certain boot sequence that I use
> that
> > is
> > > fairly reliable, but not always. Sometimes, if the system won't lock
up,
> I
> > > have to just shut things down and start over. A major factor in this
> > > clocking tr4ain wreck is having over 60 digital I/O's interfacing
> between
> > > the two DAWs and other digital gear. One wimpy handshake and the whole
> > think
> > > can go south. It's a huge bunch of variables , a pair of Digipatch
units
> > and
> > > routing of digital I/O of outboard units using various format
converters
> > to
> > > get everything happy and the spdif I/O of Paris and RME HDSP units as
> > > additional patchbays. Endless possibilities for trouble. I must say
> > > though........when it's up and running it's an awesome beast.
> > >
> > > "uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> > > news:43657ac9@linux...
> > > > I put the Digipatch software on the back burner in order to try the
> rest
> > > of
> > > > your suggestions first.
> > > >
> > > > I'll be damned if it didn't work.
> > > >
> > > > Doug, you're a peach. My feeling of victory was electric. Such an
easy
> > > > 15-minute fix.
> > > >
> > > > What sort of dodginess should I expect? You spoke of
unreliability...
> > > >
> > > > Jimmy
> > > >
> > > > "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:43656037@linux...
> > > > > Do you have the Digipatch software properly loaded so you can
> control
> > > the
> > > > > routing from the Digipatch control panel on your computer desktop?
> If
> > > not,
> > > > > this could be your problem......just a routing
issue.......however,
> > > having
> > > > > said this..........if you have done this and still aren't having
any
> > > joy,
> > > > > then it sounds to me like your MEC on Submix 2 isn't clocking
> > properly.
> > > > This
> > > > > is the rub with using multiple MECs with an external clock.
> Sometimes
> > > > there
> > > > > a train wreck with the clocking.
> > > > >
> > > > > Have you added the UseHouseSync=1 line to your Paris .cfg file?
> > > > > Subsequently, have you opened Paris from the Paris.exe file in the
> Emu
> > > > > directory in your Program Files directory, set the sync source to
> Word
> > > > > Clock, then saved this to your Emu folder as defaultproject.ppj?
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, always be sure to turn your house clock on before you power
up
> > > your
> > > > > MECs and then afterwards boot Paris from a desktop shortcut to the
> > > > > defaultproject.ppj that you created and saved in the Emu
directory.
> > > > >
> > > > > You gotta' jump through a number of hoops and then it's not always
> > > > reliable.
> > > > > I always boot up my system at least two hours before a session to
> get
> > it
> > > > > stabilized before the talent shows up.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you have done all of the above things and you're still not
> getting
> > > the
> > > > > other MECs to clok to WC, launch your defaultproject.ppj and then
> > toggle
> > > > the
> > > > > sync source to internal. Let it sit until it quits popping and
> > > > > fussing........then toggle it back to WC and let it pop and fuss
> until
> > > it
> > > > > settles down. You can usually tell when it's locked up because you
> > will
> > > > hear
> > > > > a loud pop, then it stabilized. this can sometimes take 5-10
seconds
> > to
> > > > > happen.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dontcha' just love Paris?
> > > > >
> > > > > ;o)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> > > > > news:43654494@linux...
> > > > > > Howdy.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm in the process of getting my Paris rig patched digitally to
my
> > > > > Kurzweil
> > > > > > FX boxes via an MAudio Digipatch.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As far as I am able to tell, I have everything physically
patched
> > > > > properly.
> > > > > > As a matter of fact, I get word-clock lock on both Kurzweil
boxes
> > from
> > > > my
> > > > > > Lucid master clock (via the SPDIF ins and outs on Paris), and
the
> > > first
> > > > FX
> > > > > > box sends and receives audio data seamlessly, at least on
> > submix1/MEC1
> > > > via
> > > > > > an aux send set to "external".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am not, however, having any luck after that. No other
Digipatch
> > > > > "patches"
> > > > > > seem to work, whether it's simultaneously patching the 2nd FX
box
> to
> > > > > > submix2/MEC2, or switching the 1st FX box to another submix/MEC.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have a three-card, three-MEC system, and thought I has sussed
> out
> > > the
> > > > > > layout of my physical cabling pretty well. Is there something I
> > don't
> > > > > > understand about the Paris aux modules? I was under the
impression
> > > that
> > > > > each
> > > > > > submix had its own complement of 8 aux modules, independently of
> the
> > > > other
> > > > > > submixes...I'm probably being stupid somehow...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Confused,
> > > > > > Jimmy
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>Hey Dimitrios! Thanks for the reply, and all your work. You are a great
asset to this news group. I'm on Mac OS 9 with Paris, so I don't think that
Wormhole will work for me at this time: ( In the future I will be buying
it though.

Thanks again!

James


"Dimitrios" <musurgio@otenet.gr> wrote:
>
>Hi,
>First of all sorry to Rick and the rest of you.
>I didn't catch it was a joke despite Mel Brooks is my favoured comedian
and
>I catch all his jokes (I guess)
>Secondly.
>You need ONLY Fxpansion 3.3 to have wormhole work with Paris.
>No multifxvst, this is for UAD1 lowest latency possible...
>YES it works with Mac and here is a list of working OS
>
>
> List of working hosts - 2005/06/23 10:41
>This is a list of VST/AU hosts which are known to work with plasq.com -
Wormhole2.
>(sync ok) means the respective hosts feeds accurate sample position information
>to WH2 thus making the sync feature usable in that host.
>
>Mac OS X
>
>(- OSX 10.3)
>(- OSX 10.4)
>
>- Logic 6 / Logic 7 / Logic 7.1 (sync ok)
>- Garageband (sync ok)
>- RAX (sync ok)
>- AULab (sync ok)
>- Spark XL (sync not working)
>- DP 4.5.2 (sync ok)
>- Live 4 (sync half-ok, only works during playback and if there are no tempo
>changes due to a bad implementation of samplepos in live)
>- Cubase SX1 (sync ok)
>- Nicecast
>- Waveburner
>- Nuendo 2 (sync ok)
>- Plogue Bidule (sync ok)
>
>Win
>
>- Windows XP
>
>- Cubase VST 5 (sync ok)
>- VSTHost (sync ok)
>- Ableton Live 4 (sync half-ok, same problems as on mac)
>- Samplitude 8.0 on Win 2K (sync ok)
>- Sound Forge 8 (sync not working)
>- VStack
>- Chainer (sync ok)
>
>So for anyone interested wormhole's site is
>www.plasq.com
>There is a great forum in there to read posts about wormhole.
>Latency is dependant on your buffer sizes and your host sending latencyWell one thing that would be cool, is if we had a DX or VST to Paris plugin
wrapper. Has any one posed the question to Doug W. and Chuck to see if such
a thing could be made? There are wrappers out there for every other plug
in Architecture, why not Paris.

There I go again, Barking up the wrong tree. Or was that skirt, I can't
remember; )

JamesPardon me for thinking out the backside again, but what about a script/macro,
that would automatically set latency compensation for a specific plugin?
Would it be possible?

You could write one for every different plugin. Just hit a couple of shortcut
keys and bam!

Well of corse I don't know what the hell I'm talking about!

James


"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>If I could just get automatic delay compensation in Paris, I'd ditch the
>monster SX rig in a heartbeat and just keep the Multiface for it's
>converters and for streaming a few VSTi's over one lightpipe connection.
>That's all I'd really need.
>
>Futzing around with the slip'n slide thing during a mix is what drives me
>nuts.
>
>;o)
>
>"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:436594a2$1@linux...
>>
>>
>> I'm sure this is the second post you've made to this effect.
>>
>> I think life is trying to tell you something. ;o)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Kim.
>>
>> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>> >Ya know............Im sitting here listening to some *roughs* of a
>tracking
>> >session I did Friday night. No compression, a very tiny bit of
>subtractive
>> >EQ, a tiny touch of NoLimit on the mix bus. That's it. The rest of the
>story
>> >is using the Paris EQ makeup gain and the fader gain stages to get the
>> >*mixphat thing going*.
>> >
>> >I swear guys.......this sounds better to my ears than all of the
>1,000,000
>> >gobazzillion plugin options I have available when using the SX rig during
>> >mixdown.
>> >
>> >It's pretty minimalist stuff to begin with......acoustic rythym guitar,
>> >acoustic lead guitar, fiddle, electric bass and acoustic drum
>kit........but
>> >that seems to be all I do these days anyway.
>> >
>> >Sometimes less is truly more.
>> >
>> >Deej
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>"DC" <dc@spamavid.com> wrote:

>It's the most amazing thing to live in a world where someone is
>so clearly and unmistakably *missing*.
>
>You know what I mean?
>
>DC

Yes.

Sorry about your sister.
GeneJames, grab the demo.. it has a VST DLL in it, oughta to be worth a spin to
see if it flies or not.
AA

"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4365b3d4$1@linux...
>
> Hey Dimitrios! Thanks for the reply, and all your work. You are a great
> asset to this news group. I'm on Mac OS 9 with Paris, so I don't think
> that
> Wormhole will work for me at this time: ( In the future I will be buying
> it though.
>
> Thanks again!
>
> James
>
>
> "Dimitrios" <musurgio@otenet.gr> wrote:
>>
>>Hi,
>>First of all sorry to Rick and the rest of you.
>>I didn't catch it was a joke despite Mel Brooks is my favoured comedian
> and
>>I catch all his jokes (I guess)
>>Secondly.
>>You need ONLY Fxpansion 3.3 to have wormhole work with Paris.
>>No multifxvst, this is for UAD1 lowest latency possible...
>>YES it works with Mac and here is a list of working OS
>>
>>
>> List of working hosts - 2005/06/23 10:41
>>This is a list of VST/AU hosts which are known to work with plasq.com -
> Wormhole2.
>>(sync ok) means the respective hosts feeds accurate sample position
>>information
>>to WH2 thus making the sync feature usable in that host.
>>
>>Mac OS X
>>
>>(- OSX 10.3)
>>(- OSX 10.4)
>>
>>- Logic 6 / Logic 7 / Logic 7.1 (sync ok)
>>- Garageband (sync ok)
>>- RAX (sync ok)
>>- AULab (sync ok)
>>- Spark XL (sync not working)
>>- DP 4.5.2 (sync ok)
>>- Live 4 (sync half-ok, only works during playback and if there are no
>>tempo
>>changes due to a bad implementation of samplepos in live)
>>- Cubase SX1 (sync ok)
>>- Nicecast
>>- Waveburner
>>- Nuendo 2 (sync ok)
>>- Plogue Bidule (sync ok)
>>
>>Win
>>
>>- Windows XP
>>
>>- Cubase VST 5 (sync ok)
>>- VSTHost (sync ok)
>>- Ableton Live 4 (sync half-ok, same problems as on mac)
>>- Samplitude 8.0 on Win 2K (sync ok)
>>- Sound Forge 8 (sync not working)
>>- VStack
>>- Chainer (sync ok)
>>
>>So for anyone interested wormhole's site is
>>www.plasq.com
>>There is a great forum in there to read posts about wormhole.
>>Latency is dependant on your buffer sizes and your host sending latencyIt's interesting, the minimal amount of equipment used.

I mentioned the free LMC-1 compressor plugin from SSL before, here's the
link:

http://www.solid-state-logic.com/resources/lmc1plugin.html

Here's the article about Phil Collins drum sound.

http://mixonline.com/mag/audio_phil_collins_air/index.html

James"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>Futzing around with the slip'n slide thing during a mix is what drives me
>nuts.

Yeh well I can understand that. It's sure a pain in the...

....and I don't suppose there's much hope that that will go away with Paris
alone.

Cheers,
Kim.I'm not sure how you'd go altering a latency comp plug with a macro, but
if you could do that, then you might just be on a winner there.

Anyone?

Cheers,
Kim.

"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Pardon me for thinking out the backside again, but what about a script/macro,
>that would automatically set latency compensation for a specific plugin?
> Would it be possible?
>
>You could write one for every different plugin. Just hit a couple of shortcut
>keys and bam!
>
>Well of corse I don't know what the hell I'm talking about!
>
>James
>
>
>"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>>If I could just get automatic delay compensation in Paris, I'd ditch the
>>monster SX rig in a heartbeat and just keep the Multiface for it's
>>converters and for streaming a few VSTi's over one lightpipe connection.
>>That's all I'd really need.
>>
>>Futzing around with the slip'n slide thing during a mix is what drives
me
>>nuts.
>>
>>;o)
>>
>>"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:436594a2$1@linux...
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm sure this is the second post you've made to this effect.
>>>
>>> I think life is trying to tell you something. ;o)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Kim.
>>>
>>> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>>> >Ya know............Im sitting here listening to some *roughs* of a
>>tracking
>>> >session I did Friday night. No compression, a very tiny bit of
>>subtractive
>>> >EQ, a tiny touch of NoLimit on the mix bus. That's it. The rest of the
>>story
>>> >is using the Paris EQ makeup gain and the fader gain stages to get the
>>> >*mixphat thing going*.
>>> >
>>> >I swear guys.......this sounds better to my ears than all of the
>>1,000,000
>>> >gobazzillion plugin options I have available when using the SX rig during
>>> >mixdown.
>>> >
>>> >It's pretty minimalist stuff to begin with......acoustic rythym guitar,
>>> >acoustic lead guitar, fiddle, electric bass and acoustic drum
>>kit........but
>>> >that seems to be all I do these days anyway.
>>> >
>>> >Sometimes less is truly more.
>>> >
>>> >Deej
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>DJ,
What I have tested to be rock solid and working by now is feeding audio from
a second pc using a daw like Cubase or whatever (delay compensation needed
there) use you audio tracks for mixing inside cubase use your plugins there
DX/VST/UAD1/POWERCORE and then send as groups or indivindually to Paris for
submixing.
I achieved rock solid perfectly alligned 24 tracks with 100mb lan and 2600
Intel processor.
You know here due to Paris submix delay bug you just need to compensate inside
Paris using Voxengo sample delay for the 8 tracks used on another submix.
Now using wormhole as insert I have not achieved synced results, maybe I
am doing something wrong, Gene might jump into this, but my few tests could
not achieve synced results.
By the first way of using wormhole you have to note the following.
The tracks inside Paris that are wormholed are around 4000 samples apart
from audio tracks not wormholed, but from within cubase if you want hear
audio tracks along with audio tracks in Paris (not handy at all I guess)
you need to dleay (from inside wormhole host slider) the wormholing tracks
for 32756 samples which is a default anyway inside wormhole for best networking.
So to make things a little bit clearer.
If you have say 48 audio tracks inside Cubase and you are ready to mix ,
you put all your DX/VST etc effects from there and then subgrouping them
down to 24/32 (whatever your system permits as wormhole instances) and then
send them inside Paris to use the Paris mix engine and EDS effects.
In this way you don't care about the latency difference beetween audio tracks
in Paris and wormholed tracks.
First of all Cubase compensates automatically.
Note though that this extra compensation with host slider is ONLY needed
if you wanna hear at the same time tracks from Cubase and tracks from Paris.
BUT in the above scenario you 'should" not need to hear both , that cannot
mix your song right ?
You only need to hear the end wormhole instances inside Paris and from then
use your automation EDS effecting volume slamming, whatever.
If you think well you can only do that with wormhole I would answer this
would be a dream a year ago for Paris right ?
So I am a firmly believer that wormhole even doing only that (that could
change with updates or further tests though) is well worth it the 49 bucks.
If you have cpu's over 3 gb with 1000 lan you could achieve maybe 48 wormhole
instances fully synced...
Regards,
Dimitrios


"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>Can I use Wormhole with a standalone VST rack of some sort to route audio
>from a Paris insert or aux, though the VST rack and then return it to
>Paris..........with 40ms latency?? I will want to use my 4 x UAD-1 cards
in
>the VST Rack and I will need low enough latency in Paris that I can keep
my
>tracks in Paris and use the Paris mix automation without problem. I think
I
>saw Dimitrios post here that he had achieved somewhere around 40ms latency
>using the FXPansion VST/DX wrapper? Not sure why he would need this if the
>UAD-1 cards are in another machine...........but anyway........can this
be
>done somehow? If it involves using Cubase SX.........well, I've already
got
>that happening with no latency as long as all tracks are being played back
>in SX. I need the tracks to stay in Paris and to process them either
>elsewhere, or in Paris with low enough latency that I can set up a mix
>template with 48 tracks and mix in Paris using the Paris
>automation............wait, didn't I already say that?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Deej
>
>Given the choice does Paris perform better with one type of plug in over
another?Hi Jimmy,

How do you find the paris eq stacks up against the 1073 eq?

All the best,
Mike


"uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>It's weird, how many people are using native plugins.
>
>I've not used the UAD-1, so I felt the need to pipe up with that caveat.
>
>But it is astounding how bad plugins sound, and how much time you can spend
>trying to get them to sound good; but when you plug in an 1176 or a 1073
EQ
>or a nice FX box (or even an RNC compressor), it takes about 10 seconds
>before things just make more sense sonically. Outboard is still light-years
>ahead of plugins, in my somewhat informed opinion.
>
>Jimmy
>
>
>
>"Mike Audet" <mike@mikeF-SPAMaudet.com> wrote in message
>news:4365825c$1@linux...
>>
>> I agree with everything you just said about plugins. Exteral harware
just
>> blows the doors off virtual.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> "uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> >I do not use plugins, and haven't for years. They do not sound as good
as
>> >high-quality outboard equipment, not on any level, and that's putting
it
>> >very politely. I am shocked that companies like Waves make any money
at
>> all
>> >selling those kinds of products.
>> >
>> >Paris is amazing, but I use it's EQ sparingly at most. Ulitmately, for
>me,
>> >it's a glorified tape machine with an awesome built-in editing
>capability,
>> >plus some well-documented gain-staging "tips and tricks" that sound
>simply
>> >delicious.
>> >
>> >Jimmy
>> >
>> >
>> >"Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote in message
>> >news:43652386$1@linux...
>> >> I've found with software less is almost always more. I went through
my
>> >plug
>> >> in craze phase.. ironically, I suspect phase and calculations are what
>> >> muddied up the mix. I know that we as an industry are in trouble when
>> >every
>> >> year, or less, we have to evaluate our tools and think we need
>something
>> >> new. I'm all down with improvement, but if things are growing 'that'
>> >fast,
>> >> then maybe we should have a look at what are we really using to begin
>> >with.
>> >> Change can't generally happen that quickly and be for the long term
>good.
>> >> Computers are a funny beast man.
>> >> AA
>> >>
>> >> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
>> >> news:43651390@linux...
>> >> > Ya know............Im sitting here listening to some *roughs* of
a
>> >> > tracking
>> >> > session I did Friday night. No compression, a very tiny bit of
>> >subtractive
>> >> > EQ, a tiny touch of NoLimit on the mix bus. That's it. The rest of
>the
>> >> > story
>> >> > is using the Paris EQ makeup gain and the fader gain stages to get
>the
>> >> > *mixphat thing going*.
>> >> >
>> >> > I swear guys.......this sounds better to my ears than all of the
>> >1,000,000
>> >> > gobazzillion plugin options I have available when using the SX rig
>> >during
>> >> > mixdown.
>> >> >
>> >> > It's pretty minimalist stuff to begin with......acoustic rythym
>guitar,
>> >> > acoustic lead guitar, fiddle, electric bass and acoustic drum
>> >> > kit........but
>> >> > that seems to be all I do these days anyway.
>> >> >
>> >> > Sometimes less is truly more.
>> >> >
>> >> > Deej
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>This is the reason I never bothered to use UA plugs in Paris... too
much hassle.

David.

DJ wrote:

>
> Futzing around with the slip'n slide thing during a mix is what drives me
> nuts.
>
> ;o)
>
>It doesn't.

Paris EQs are usable in a pinch, which means I don't need them anymore.

Cuz I'm the proud owner of a Great River 1073... :)

Jimmy

"Mike Audet" <mike@mikeF-SPAMaudet.com> wrote in message
news:43661314@linux...
>
> Hi Jimmy,
>
> How do you find the paris eq stacks up against the 1073 eq?
>
> All the best,
> Mike
>
>
> "uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >It's weird, how many people are using native plugins.
> >
> >I've not used the UAD-1, so I felt the need to pipe up with that caveat.
> >
> >But it is astounding how bad plugins sound, and how much time you can
spend
> >trying to get them to sound good; but when you plug in an 1176 or a 1073
> EQ
> >or a nice FX box (or even an RNC compressor), it takes about 10 seconds
> >before things just make more sense sonically. Outboard is still
light-years
> >ahead of plugins, in my somewhat informed opinion.
> >
> >Jimmy
> >
> >
> >
> >"Mike Audet" <mike@mikeF-SPAMaudet.com> wrote in message
> >news:4365825c$1@linux...
> >>
> >> I agree with everything you just said about plugins. Exteral harware
> just
> >> blows the doors off virtual.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >>
> >> "uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >> >I do not use plugins, and haven't for years. They do not sound as good
> as
> >> >high-quality outboard equipment, not on any level, and that's putting
> it
> >> >very politely. I am shocked that companies like Waves make any money
> at
> >> all
> >> >selling those kinds of products.
> >> >
> >> >Paris is amazing, but I use it's EQ sparingly at most. Ulitmately, for
> >me,
> >> >it's a glorified tape machine with an awesome built-in editing
> >capability,
> >> >plus some well-documented gain-staging "tips and tricks" that sound
> >simply
> >> >delicious.
> >> >
> >> >Jimmy
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >"Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote in message
> >> >news:43652386$1@linux...
> >> >> I've found with software less is almost always more. I went through
> my
> >> >plug
> >> >> in craze phase.. ironically, I suspect phase and calculations are
what
> >> >> muddied up the mix. I know that we as an industry are in trouble
when
> >> >every
> >> >> year, or less, we have to evaluate our tools and think we need
> >something
> >> >> new. I'm all down with improvement, but if things are growing
'that'
> >> >fast,
> >> >> then maybe we should have a look at what are we really using to
begin
> >> >with.
> >> >> Change can't generally happen that quickly and be for the long term
> >good.
> >> >> Computers are a funny beast man.
> >> >> AA
> >> >>
> >> >> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
> >> >> news:43651390@linux...
> >> >> > Ya know............Im sitting here listening to some *roughs* of
> a
> >> >> > tracking
> >> >> > session I did Friday night. No compression, a very tiny bit of
> >> >subtractive
> >> >> > EQ, a tiny touch of NoLimit on the mix bus. That's it. The rest of
> >the
> >> >> > story
> >> >> > is using the Paris EQ makeup gain and the fader gain stages to get
> >the
> >> >> > *mixphat thing going*.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I swear guys.......this sounds better to my ears than all of the
> >> >1,000,000
> >> >> > gobazzillion plugin options I have available when using the SX rig
> >> >during
> >> >> > mixdown.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > It's pretty minimalist stuff to begin with......acoustic rythym
> >guitar,
> >> >> > acoustic lead guitar, fiddle, electric bass and acoustic drum
> >> >> > kit........but
> >> >> > that seems to be all I do these days anyway.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Sometimes less is truly more.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Deej
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>Hey Jimmy,
So do you have the Great River eq or the pre or both?If you
have the eq how do you like it;I'm sure its killer.

Pete

"uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>It doesn't.
>
>Paris EQs are usable in a pinch, which means I don't need them anymore.
>
>Cuz I'm the proud owner of a Great River 1073... :)
>
>Jimmy
>
>"Mike Audet" <mike@mikeF-SPAMaudet.com> wrote in message
>news:43661314@linux...
>>
>> Hi Jimmy,
>>
>> How do you find the paris eq stacks up against the 1073 eq?
>>
>> All the best,
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> "uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> >It's weird, how many people are using native plugins.
>> >
>> >I've not used the UAD-1, so I felt the need to pipe up with that caveat.
>> >
>> >But it is astounding how bad plugins sound, and how much time you can
>spend
>> >trying to get them to sound good; but when you plug in an 1176 or a 1073
>> EQ
>> >or a nice FX box (or even an RNC compressor), it takes about 10 seconds
>> >before things just make more sense sonically. Outboard is still
>light-years
>> >ahead of plugins, in my somewhat informed opinion.
>> >
>> >Jimmy
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >"Mike Audet" <mike@mikeF-SPAMaudet.com> wrote in message
>> >news:4365825c$1@linux...
>> >>
>> >> I agree with everything you just said about plugins. Exteral harware
>> just
>> >> blows the doors off virtual.
>> >>
>> >> Mike
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> >> >I do not use plugins, and haven't for years. They do not sound as
good
>> as
>> >> >high-quality outboard equipment, not on any level, and that's putting
>> it
>> >> >very politely. I am shocked that companies like Waves make any money
>> at
>> >> all
>> >> >selling those kinds of products.
>> >> >
>> >> >Paris is amazing, but I use it's EQ sparingly at most. Ulitmately,
for
>> >me,
>> >> >it's a glorified tape machine with an awesome built-in editing
>> >capability,
>> >> >plus some well-documented gain-staging "tips and tricks" that sound
>> >simply
>> >> >delicious.
>> >> >
>> >> >Jimmy
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >"Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote in message
>> >> >news:43652386$1@linux...
>> >> >> I've found with software less is almost always more. I went through
>> my
>> >> >plug
>> >> >> in craze phase.. ironically, I suspect phase and calculations are
>what
>> >> >> muddied up the mix. I know that we as an industry are in trouble
>when
>> >> >every
>> >> >> year, or less, we have to evaluate our tools and think we need
>> >something
>> >> >> new. I'm all down with improvement, but if things are growing
>'that'
>> >> >fast,
>> >> >> then maybe we should have a look at what are we really using to
>begin
>> >> >with.
>> >> >> Change can't generally happen that quickly and be for the long term
>> >good.
>> >> >> Computers are a funny beast man.
>> >> >> AA
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:43651390@linux...
>> >> >> > Ya know............Im sitting here listening to some *roughs*
of
>> a
>> >> >> > tracking
>> >> >> > session I did Friday night. No compression, a very tiny bit of
>> >> >subtractive
>> >> >> > EQ, a tiny touch of NoLimit on the mix bus. That's it. The rest
of
>> >the
>> >> >> > story
>> >> >> > is using the Paris EQ makeup gain and the fader gain stages to
get
>> >the
>> >> >> > *mixphat thing going*.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I swear guys.......this sounds better to my ears than all of the
>> >> >1,000,000
>> >> >> > gobazzillion plugin options I have available when using the SX
rig
>> >> >during
>> >> >> > mixdown.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > It's pretty minimalist stuff to begin with......acoustic rythym
>> >guitar,
>> >> >> > acoustic lead guitar, fiddle, electric bass and acoustic drum
>> >> >> > kit........but
>> >> >> > that seems to be all I do these days anyway.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Sometimes less is truly more.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Deej
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>Just a thought, maybe using MIDI-LAN to send MTC and have one of the machines
lock to it???

James

"Dimitrio" <musurgio@otenet.gr> wrote:
>
>DJ,
>What I have tested to be rock solid and working by now is feeding audio
from
>a second pc using a daw like Cubase or whatever (delay compensation needed
>there) use you audio tracks for mixing inside cubase use your plugins there
>DX/VST/UAD1/POWERCORE and then send as groups or indivindually to Paris
for
>submixing.
>I achieved rock solid perfectly alligned 24 tracks with 100mb lan and 2600
>Intel processor.
>You know here due to Paris submix delay bug you just need to compensate
inside
>Paris using Voxengo sample delay for the 8 tracks used on another submix.
>Now using wormhole as insert I have not achieved synced results, maybe I
>am doing something wrong, Gene might jump into this, but my few tests could
>not achieve synced results.
>By the first way of using wormhole you have to note the following.
>The tracks inside Paris that are wormholed are around 4000 samples apart
>from audio tracks not wormholed, but from within cubase if you want hear
>audio tracks along with audio tracks in Paris (not handy at all I guess)
>you need to dleay (from inside wormhole host slider) the wormholing tracks
>for 32756 samples which is a default anyway inside wormhole for best networking.
>So to make things a little bit clearer.
>If you have say 48 audio tracks inside Cubase and you are ready to mix ,
>you put all your DX/VST etc effects from there and then subgrouping them
>down to 24/32 (whatever your system permits as wormhole instances) and then
>send them inside Paris to use the Paris mix engine and EDS effects.
>In this way you don't care about the latency difference beetween audio tracks
>in Paris and wormholed tracks.
>First of all Cubase compensates automatically.
>Note though that this extra compensation with host slider is ONLY needed
>if you wanna hear at the same time tracks from Cubase and tracks from Paris.
>BUT in the above scenario you 'should" not need to hear both , that cannot
>mix your song right ?
>You only need to hear the end wormhole instances inside Paris and from then
>use your automation EDS effecting volume slamming, whatever.
>If you think well you can only do that with wormhole I would answer this
>would be a dream a year ago for Paris right ?
>So I am a firmly believer that wormhole even doing only that (that could
>change with updates or further tests though) is well worth it the 49 bucks.
>If you have cpu's over 3 gb with 1000 lan you could achieve maybe 48 wormhole
>instances fully synced...
>Regards,
>Dimitrios
>
>
>"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>>Can I use Wormhole with a standalone VST rack of some sort to route audio
>>from a Paris insert or aux, though the VST rack and then return it to
>>Paris..........with 40ms latency?? I will want to use my 4 x UAD-1 cards
>in
>>the VST Rack and I will need low enough latency in Paris that I can keep
>my
>>tracks in Paris and use the Paris mix automation without problem. I think
>I
>>saw Dimitrios post here that he had achieved somewhere around 40ms latency
>>using the FXPansion VST/DX wrapper? Not sure why he would need this if
the
>>UAD-1 cards are in another machine...........but anyway........can this
>be
>>done somehow? If it involves using Cubase SX.........well, I've already
>got
>>that happening with no latency as long as all tracks are being played back
>>in SX. I need the tracks to stay in Paris and to process them either
>>elsewhere, or in Paris with low enough latency that I can set up a mix
>>template with 48 tracks and mix in Paris using the Paris
>>automation............wait, didn't I already say that?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Deej
>>
>>
>Thanks Gene! I was under the impression it was PC only. Duh!

Tony


"genelennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:4362a477$1@linux...
>
> "Tony Benson" <t o n y@s t a n d i n g h a m p t o n.c o m> wrote:
>>I don't suppose there is any hope of a Mac Wormhole. If I was running a
> PC
>>I'd buy. Sorry.
>>
>>Tony
>>
> You get both a Mac and a PC copy. I use it for both and frequently
> cross-platform.
> gI have both. They call it the MP2EQ, or something like that, a single
channel of each racked side by side. I have them patched seperately in my
patch bay so I can use the EQ as a send from Paris.

Look, I don't want to piss on the parade of anybody who can't afford the
good stuff. I've been there myself, I know how it feels.

But my experience with DAW plugins has been anything but pleasurable. I've
been training my ear since I was four years old, at least as an audiophile,
and my journey as a studio-rat has been slowed and frustrated no end by
years of time wasted trying to get the sounds I know are possible to get,
but without having the gear necessary to make those sounds happen. It took
me years to realize that part of my problem was plugins. I consider them a
scam perpetrated on innocent musicians who don't know better.

High-end outboard gear is expensive for a reason. And, in this case at
least, you get what you pay for. It just sounds so fucking good. There's no
cloudiness, no endless tweaking, no lingering feeling of dissatisfaction, no
weird phasing sounds, no flatness; just sweet, clean, art-inducing
rightness. Well worth the money.

I mean, sure you can get yourself a $200.00 guitar and set about learning to
play it, try to make some art with it. But the moment you pick up a
$1,000.00 guitar, you know the difference. It's infinitely easier to play,
it sounds infinitely better, and it records infinitely better. It's just
that simple.

Jimmy


"Pete Ruthenburg" <ruthenburg@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:436653c1$1@linux...
>
> Hey Jimmy,
> So do you have the Great River eq or the pre or both?If you
> have the eq how do you like it;I'm sure its killer.
>
> Pete
>
> "uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >It doesn't.
> >
> >Paris EQs are usable in a pinch, which means I don't need them anymore.
> >
> >Cuz I'm the proud owner of a Great River 1073... :)
> >
> >Jimmy
> >
> >"Mike Audet" <mike@mikeF-SPAMaudet.com> wrote in message
> >news:43661314@linux...
> >>
> >> Hi Jimmy,
> >>
> >> How do you find the paris eq stacks up against the 1073 eq?
> >>
> >> All the best,
> >> Mike
> >>
> >>
> >> "uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >> >It's weird, how many people are using native plugins.
> >> >
> >> >I've not used the UAD-1, so I felt the need to pipe up with that
caveat.
> >> >
> >> >But it is astounding how bad plugins sound, and how much time you can
> >spend
> >> >trying to get them to sound good; but when you plug in an 1176 or a
1073
> >> EQ
> >> >or a nice FX box (or even an RNC compressor), it takes about 10
seconds
> >> >before things just make more sense sonically. Outboard is still
> >light-years
> >> >ahead of plugins, in my somewhat informed opinion.
> >> >
> >> >Jimmy
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >"Mike Audet" <mike@mikeF-SPAMaudet.com> wrote in message
> >> >news:4365825c$1@linux...
> >> >>
> >> >> I agree with everything you just said about plugins. Exteral
harware
> >> just
> >> >> blows the doors off virtual.
> >> >>
> >> >> Mike
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> "uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >> >> >I do not use plugins, and haven't for years. They do not sound as
> good
> >> as
> >> >> >high-quality outboard equipment, not on any level, and that's
putting
> >> it
> >> >> >very politely. I am shocked that companies like Waves make any
money
> >> at
> >> >> all
> >> >> >selling those kinds of products.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Paris is amazing, but I use it's EQ sparingly at most. Ulitmately,
> for
> >> >me,
> >> >> >it's a glorified tape machine with an awesome built-in editing
> >> >capability,
> >> >> >plus some well-documented gain-staging "tips and tricks" that sound
> >> >simply
> >> >> >delicious.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Jimmy
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote in message
> >> >> >news:43652386$1@linux...
> >> >> >> I've found with software less is almost always more. I went
through
> >> my
> >> >> >plug
> >> >> >> in craze phase.. ironically, I suspect phase and calculations are
> >what
> >> >> >> muddied up the mix. I know that we as an industry are in trouble
> >when
> >> >> >every
> >> >> >> year, or less, we have to evaluate our tools and think we need
> >> >something
> >> >> >> new. I'm all down with improvement, but if things are growing
> >'that'
> >> >> >fast,
> >> >> >> then maybe we should have a look at what are we really using to
> >begin
> >> >> >with.
> >> >> >> Change can't generally happen that quickly and be for the long
term
> >> >good.
> >> >> >> Computers are a funny beast man.
> >> >> >> AA
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
> >> >> >> news:43651390@linux...
> >> >> >> > Ya know............Im sitting here listening to some *roughs*
> of
> >> a
> >> >> >> > tracking
> >> >> >> > session I did Friday night. No compression, a very tiny bit of
> >> >> >subtractive
> >> >> >> > EQ, a tiny touch of NoLimit on the mix bus. That's it. The rest
> of
> >> >the
> >> >> >> > story
> >> >> >> > is using the Paris EQ makeup gain and the fader gain stages to
> get
> >> >the
> >> >> >> > *mixphat thing going*.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > I swear guys.......this sounds better to my ears than all of
the
> >> >> >1,000,000
> >> >> >> > gobazzillion plugin options I have available when using the SX
> rig
> >> >> >during
> >> >> >> > mixdown.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > It's pretty minimalist stuff to begin with......acoustic rythym
> >> >guitar,
> >> >> >> > acoustic lead guitar, fiddle, electric bass and acoustic drum
> >> >> >> > kit........but
> >> >> >> > that seems to be all I do these days anyway.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Sometimes less is truly more.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Deej
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>Hi Dimitrio,

Thanks for your answer. The issue for me with this is that I have already
spent the $$$ to create a situation here that is zero latency while mixing.
It's very fast and easy for *me* to use because I customized it to work with
all of my personal gear. I don't see any up side to my adding Wormhole to
the mix unless it would allow me to keep my tracks in Paris and run a
standalone VST rack on a second computer with very low latency (40ms tops).
If I could do this, I could use Paris fader automation and not have to
transport my tracks over to a second computer in order to stream them back
to Paris with auto delay compensation in SX.

It would be fairly simple to set up a mix template in Paris and just import
rendered .paf's into it. I used to do this, but the cumulative latency (4 x
UAD-1 plugins each needing 16000+ samples) made using Paris automation
unusable. Come to think of it, the Wormhole configuration for this would
have to have 40ms latency for *multiple* Paris plugins or the same situation
would start to happen......adding more than one UAD plugin would increase
the latency by another 40ms so the mix template would have to have a delay
compensator for at least x UAD-1 plugins and then the automation options
are maybe not so good becaus inste4ad of 40ms, every track in the mix
template would have an inherent 160ms latency. That's very close to the
highest buffer settings in the RME control panel (8192) and I have tried
mixing at those settings using a Steinberg Houston controller. The latency
was just too much to use the fader controller with any accuracy at all for
critical mix moves. The automation lags too far behind the audio event.

Now if the Spinaudio or other VST rack thingie could lower the latency of
any number of UAD-1 plugins to 40ms, no matter how many plugins were used, I
might be all over this.

I'm going to buy the Wormhole just because I think that this guy is someone
who should be supported and I hope this helps out my fellow Parisites who
are, quite frankly, going way beyond what I'm doing these days in terrms of
experimentation. Now that I've found a solution to my particular needs, I've
become a bit complacent.

Perhaps I need to step outside the box again.......but my little box here is
working and is fairly comfortable.

Thanks again for all of your efforts.

;O)

Deej


"Dimitrio" <musurgio@otenet.gr> wrote in message news:4365e2e9$1@linux...
>
> DJ,
> What I have tested to be rock solid and working by now is feeding audio
from
> a second pc using a daw like Cubase or whatever (delay compensation needed
> there) use you audio tracks for mixing inside cubase use your plugins
there
> DX/VST/UAD1/POWERCORE and then send as groups or indivindually to Paris
for
> submixing.
> I achieved rock solid perfectly alligned 24 tracks with 100mb lan and 2600
> Intel processor.
> You know here due to Paris submix delay bug you just need to compensate
inside
> Paris using Voxengo sample delay for the 8 tracks used on another submix.
> Now using wormhole as insert I have not achieved synced results, maybe I
> am doing something wrong, Gene might jump into this, but my few tests
could
> not achieve synced results.
> By the first way of using wormhole you have to note the following.
> The tracks inside Paris that are wormholed are around 4000 samples apart
> from audio tracks not wormholed, but from within cubase if you want hear
> audio tracks along with audio tracks in Paris (not handy at all I guess)
> you need to dleay (from inside wormhole host slider) the wormholing tracks
> for 32756 samples which is a default anyway inside wormhole for best
networking.
> So to make things a little bit clearer.
> If you have say 48 audio tracks inside Cubase and you are ready to mix ,
> you put all your DX/VST etc effects from there and then subgrouping them
> down to 24/32 (whatever your system permits as wormhole instances) and
then
> send them inside Paris to use the Paris mix engine and EDS effects.
> In this way you don't care about the latency difference beetween audio
tracks
> in Paris and wormholed tracks.
> First of all Cubase compensates automatically.
> Note though that this extra compensation with host slider is ONLY needed
> if you wanna hear at the same time tracks from Cubase and tracks from
Paris.
> BUT in the above scenario you 'should" not need to hear both , that cannot
> mix your song right ?
> You only need to hear the end wormhole instances inside Paris and from
then
> use your automation EDS effecting volume slamming, whatever.
> If you think well you can only do that with wormhole I would answer this
> would be a dream a year ago for Paris right ?
> So I am a firmly believer that wormhole even doing only that (that could
> change with updates or further tests though) is well worth it the 49
bucks.
> If you have cpu's over 3 gb with 1000 lan you could achieve maybe 48
wormhole
> instances fully synced...
> Regards,
> Dimitrios
>
>
> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
> >Can I use Wormhole with a standalone VST rack of some sort to route audio
> >from a Paris insert or aux, though the VST rack and then return it to
> >Paris..........with 40ms latency?? I will want to use my 4 x UAD-1 cards
> in
> >the VST Rack and I will need low enough latency in Paris that I can keep
> my
> >tracks in Paris and use the Paris mix automation without problem. I
think
> I
> >saw Dimitrios post here that he had achieved somewhere around 40ms
latency
> >using the FXPansion VST/DX wrapper? Not sure why he would need this if
the
> >UAD-1 cards are in another machine...........but anyway........can this
> be
> >done somehow? If it involves using Cubase SX.........well, I've already
> got
> >that happening with no latency as long as all tracks are being played
back
> >in SX. I need the tracks to stay in Paris and to process them either
> >elsewhere, or in Paris with low enough latency that I can set up a mix
> >template with 48 tracks and mix in Paris using the Paris
> >automation............wait, didn't I already say that?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Deej
> >
> >
>"uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>just sweet, clean, art-inducing rightness.


What a great line! That should be in a song or at least up on the wall...

I used to have a sign on the wall that said:

There are 2 things in audio, cheap talk, and what's on tape...

DCSo are you using any EQ at mixdown?
If so are you goin in to hardware?



"uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>I have both. They call it the MP2EQ, or something like that, a single
>channel of each racked side by side. I have them patched seperately in my
>patch bay so I can use the EQ as a send from Paris.
>
>Look, I don't want to piss on the parade of anybody who can't afford the
>good stuff. I've been there myself, I know how it feels.
>
>But my experience with DAW plugins has been anything but pleasurable. I've
>been training my ear since I was four years old, at least as an audiophile,
>and my journey as a studio-rat has been slowed and frustrated no end by
>years of time wasted trying to get the sounds I know are possible to get,
>but without having the gear necessary to make those sounds happen. It took
>me years to realize that part of my problem was plugins. I consider them
a
>scam perpetrated on innocent musicians who don't know better.
>
>High-end outboard gear is expensive for a reason. And, in this case at
>least, you get what you pay for. It just sounds so fucking good. There's
no
>cloudiness, no endless tweaking, no lingering feeling of dissatisfaction,
no
>weird phasing sounds, no flatness; just sweet, clean, art-inducing
>rightness. Well worth the money.
>
>I mean, sure you can get yourself a $200.00 guitar and set about learning
to
>play it, try to make some art with it. But the moment you pick up a
>$1,000.00 guitar, you know the difference. It's infinitely easier to play,
>it sounds infinitely better, and it records infinitely better. It's just
>that simple.
>
>Jimmy
>
>
>"Pete Ruthenburg" <ruthenburg@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>news:436653c1$1@linux...
>>
>> Hey Jimmy,
>> So do you have the Great River eq or the pre or both?If you
>> have the eq how do you like it;I'm sure its killer.
>>
>> Pete
>>
>> "uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> >It doesn't.
>> >
>> >Paris EQs are usable in a pinch, which means I don't need them anymore.
>> >
>> >Cuz I'm the proud owner of a Great River 1073... :)
>> >
>> >Jimmy
>> >
>> >"Mike Audet" <mike@mikeF-SPAMaudet.com> wrote in message
>> >news:43661314@linux...
>> >>
>> >> Hi Jimmy,
>> >>
>> >> How do you find the paris eq stacks up against the 1073 eq?
>> >>
>> >> All the best,
>> >> Mike
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> >> >It's weird, how many people are using native plugins.
>> >> >
>> >> >I've not used the UAD-1, so I felt the need to pipe up with that
>caveat.
>> >> >
>> >> >But it is astounding how bad plugins sound, and how much time you
can
>> >spend
>> >> >trying to get them to sound good; but when you plug in an 1176 or
a
>1073
>> >> EQ
>> >> >or a nice FX box (or even an RNC compressor), it takes about 10
>seconds
>> >> >before things just make more sense sonically. Outboard is still
>> >light-years
>> >> >ahead of plugins, in my somewhat informed opinion.
>> >> >
>> >> >Jimmy
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >"Mike Audet" <mike@mikeF-SPAMaudet.com> wrote in message
>> >> >news:4365825c$1@linux...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I agree with everything you just said about plugins. Exteral
>harware
>> >> just
>> >> >> blows the doors off virtual.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Mike
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> >> >> >I do not use plugins, and haven't for years. They do not sound
as
>> good
>> >> as
>> >> >> >high-quality outboard equipment, not on any level, and that's
>putting
>> >> it
>> >> >> >very politely. I am shocked that companies like Waves make any
>money
>> >> at
>> >> >> all
>> >> >> >selling those kinds of products.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Paris is amazing, but I use it's EQ sparingly at most. Ulitmately,
>> for
>> >> >me,
>> >> >> >it's a glorified tape machine with an awesome built-in editing
>> >> >capability,
>> >> >> >plus some well-documented gain-staging "tips and tricks" that sound
>> >> >simply
>> >> >> >delicious.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Jimmy
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >"Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote in message
>> >> >> >news:43652386$1@linux...
>> >> >> >> I've found with software less is almost always more. I went
>through
>> >> my
>> >> >> >plug
>> >> >> >> in craze phase.. ironically, I suspect phase and calculations
are
>> >what
>> >> >> >> muddied up the mix. I know that we as an industry are in trouble
>> >when
>> >> >> >every
>> >> >> >> year, or less, we have to evaluate our tools and think we need
>> >> >something
>> >> >> >> new. I'm all down with improvement, but if things are growing
>> >'that'
>> >> >> >fast,
>> >> >> >> then maybe we should have a look at what are we really using
to
>> >begin
>> >> >> >with.
>> >> >> >> Change can't generally happen that quickly and be for the long
>term
>> >> >good.
>> >> >> >> Computers are a funny beast man.
>> >> >> >> AA
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
>> >> >> >> news:43651390@linux...
>> >> >> >> > Ya know............Im sitting here listening to some *roughs*
>> of
>> >> a
>> >> >> >> > tracking
>> >> >> >> > session I did Friday night. No compression, a very tiny bit
of
>> >> >> >subtractive
>> >> >> >> > EQ, a tiny touch of NoLimit on the mix bus. That's it. The
rest
>> of
>> >> >the
>> >> >> >> > story
>> >> >> >> > is using the Paris EQ makeup gain and the fader gain stages
to
>> get
>> >> >the
>> >> >> >> > *mixphat thing going*.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > I swear guys.......this sounds better to my ears than all of
>the
>> >> >> >1,000,000
>> >> >> >> > gobazzillion plugin options I have available when using the
SX
>> rig
>> >> >> >during
>> >> >> >> > mixdown.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > It's pretty minimalist stuff to begin with......acoustic rythym
>> >> >guitar,
>> >> >> >> > acoustic lead guitar, fiddle, electric bass and acoustic drum
>> >> >> >> > kit........but
>> >> >> >> > that seems to be all I do these days anyway.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Sometimes less is truly more.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Deej
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>"DC" <dc@spamyomama.com> wrote:
>There are 2 things in audio, cheap talk, and what's on tape...

Hehe. Nice.

Cheers,
Kim.With no other effects being used....I get this error message when trying to
use noLIMIT on the master bus: "An error occurred in creating insert. The
effects resources are now maxed out. The specified effect can not be created".

Is there a configuration setting or change to the stockfx.ini file that would
eliminate this message and allow me to use noLIMIT on the master bus?

Thanks in advance. Mike.Mike,

I'm assuming you have more than one EDS card? Is this right? The master buss
effects use card A's processing power. Make sure the submix assigned to card
A isn't using very many send and /or insert EDS effects. If this doesn't
help, give us some more details on your set-up.

Tony


"Mike Yanoska" <yanoska@cox.net> wrote in message news:43669bd4$1@linux...
>
> With no other effects being used....I get this error message when trying
> to
> use noLIMIT on the master bus: "An error occurred in creating insert. The
> effects resources are now maxed out. The specified effect can not be
> created".
>
> Is there a configuration setting or change to the stockfx.ini file that
> would
> eliminate this message and allow me to use noLIMIT on the master bus?
>
> Thanks in advance. Mike.Tony,

Sorry I wasn't a little more specific in my first post. Here is what I have:

Single EDS card
442
C16
3.0 software on XP Pro

The track has no other effects activated....also no sends (internal or external).

The odd thing is that all the other effects (compressor, delay, chorus, etc.)
can be initiated on the master buss....just not the noLIMIT plug.

Let me know if I can provide any other info that would help. I have no problem
working with computers (I build Video, and some Audio, computers).

Thanks again, Mike.


"Tony Benson" <t o n y@s t a n d i n g h a m p t o n.c o m> wrote:
>Mike,
>
>I'm assuming you have more than one EDS card? Is this right? The master
buss
>effects use card A's processing power. Make sure the submix assigned to
card
>A isn't using very many send and /or insert EDS effects. If this doesn't

>help, give us some more details on your set-up.
>
>Tony
>
>
>"Mike Yanoska" <yanoska@cox.net> wrote in message news:43669bd4$1@linux...
>>
>> With no other effects being used....I get this error message when trying

>> to
>> use noLIMIT on the master bus: "An error occurred in creating insert.
The
>> effects resources are now maxed out. The specified effect can not be
>> created".
>>
>> Is there a configuration setting or change to the stockfx.ini file that

>> would
>> eliminate this message and allow me to use noLIMIT on the master bus?
>>
>> Thanks in advance. Mike.
>
>I think I have it. I'm holding a 4 page document and put it in my
copier and have it email it to me as pdf then I can post it. YEAH IT
DOES THAT ! wow
Then let me know if that is what you want. I bet it is.
John

jon chaikin wrote:
> thanks for the pointer. i've yet to find the one that was on the
> Ensoniq site which gave a step by step for using the aux sends to
> create a headphone mix, but i'll keep looking.
>
> thanks again.
>
> jon
>
> On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 19:05:02 -0400, John <no@no.com> wrote:
>
>
>>www.kfocus.com/paris
>>
>>Look under Paris, _Setup, Queue Mixes
>>
>>jon chaikin wrote:
>>
>>>i used to have a tutorial that showed how to setup a headphone mix
>>>using the external effects system. does anyone still have a copy?
>>>
>>>thanks
>>>
>>>jon
>
>Do you have any other eds effects on that card..on any channel, or even eds
reverbs? No Limit is a resource hog. if you have some other effects anywhere
in the submix you may be maxed out.
Rod
"Mike Yanoska" <yanoska@cox.net> wrote:
>
>Tony,
>
>Sorry I wasn't a little more specific in my first post. Here is what I
have:
>
>Single EDS card
>442
>C16
>3.0 software on XP Pro
>
>The track has no other effects activated....also no sends (internal or external).
>
>The odd thing is that all the other effects (compressor, delay, chorus,
etc.)
>can be initiated on the master buss....just not the noLIMIT plug.
>
>Let me know if I can provide any other info that would help. I have no
problem
>working with computers (I build Video, and some Audio, computers).
>
>Thanks again, Mike.
>
>
>"Tony Benson" <t o n y@s t a n d i n g h a m p t o n.c o m> wrote:
>>Mike,
>>
>>I'm assuming you have more than one EDS card? Is this right? The master
>buss
>>effects use card A's processing power. Make sure the submix assigned to
>card
>>A isn't using very many send and /or insert EDS effects. If this doesn't
>
>>help, give us some more details on your set-up.
>>
>>Tony
>>
>>
>>"Mike Yanoska" <yanoska@cox.net> wrote in message news:43669bd4$1@linux...
>>>
>>> With no other effects being used....I get this error message when trying
>
>>> to
>>> use noLIMIT on the master bus: "An error occurred in creating insert.
>The
>>> effects resources are now maxed out. The specified effect can not be

>>> created".
>>>
>>> Is there a configuration setting or change to the stockfx.ini file that
>
>>> would
>>> eliminate this message and allow me to use noLIMIT on the master bus?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance. Mike.
>>
>>
>I'm sorta anal-retentive, so I've been polishing my productions bits and
pieces at a time as I track them and edit the parts, while continuing to
learn the engineering and performance chops o' the trade as I go, as it
were. I will probably never have a true "mix session" in the traditional
sense of the term, as I'll have already tweaked the mixes countless times by
the time all the tracking is done.

I'm an artist, not a professional engineer. I think my engineering skills
have gotten pretty good in the last few years, but it's in the service of my
art, not that of a day-to-day business. That's probably a point I should
have made a while ago.

But in the final stages of things (which are coming up soon for this
project), I'll do more of what I've been doing, which is isolate an
instrument or two at a time and get things sounding just right. I can't
afford a shit-load of nice outboard gear, and I play everything myself, so
I've long since fallen into the habit of concentrating on a few instruments
at a time.

My buddy Swen is becoming a greater and greater presence in the studio and
in my creative process, and we have mirrored setups in terms of basic gear,
so we have the sweet stuff racked on 10-space SKB racks so that we can have
2 channels of 1176, 3 of the 1073, etc., all together at the same time, in
the same place, for certain more intensive/collaborative tracking/mixing
days.

My basic philosophy is to get it sounding "right" as I go, with the obvious
cleaning-up stuff right at the end. I don't want to find myself in the
middle of a song production and not feel overwhelmed by its beauty. I refuse
to be involved in anything that isn't just obviously beautiful. Luckily, we
seem to have stumbled recently, at long last, onto just that. We'll see
soon. But it's an old, old way of looking at this "recording" thing: mix it
with the way you play it...make it sound the way you want as you
go...commit, commit, commit...

But really, it's like being a film-maker, in that there's an ever-increasing
amount of stuff you can do in the edit suite to tweak and polish and
rearrange what was filmed. But the great films revolve primarily around the
actions of a relatively few actors and camera/light/direction types in a
series of carefully prepared, highly intense moments. Sure the editing is
crucial, but any attempt at film editing depends entirely upon the raw
materials at hand, ie: the filmed performaces. So, I EQ and compress and
affect going to tape, and then edit the part, and then pass it out to the EQ
or compressor again, if necessary, to make it sit just right in the mix as
it stands.

As far as I'm concerned, the sound going to tape needs to be really, really
inspiring AS IT IS RECORDED. And that requires really good gear, as well as
the really amazing performaces that good gear sometimes inspires...

I'll say it again: alot of unwitting, well-intentioned folk have been
hoodwinked over that last few years into thinking that they can do it all
"in the box". I have yet to see or hear the evdence that that is true.

I am now regularly sending both analog and digital signals to my outboard
gear. I refuse to jump through the Paris/UAD-1 hoops, and none of the native
plugins sound remotely comparable to my outboard gear, so...

Man, I'll tell you straight-up: you ain't played till you've played through
really good gear. It makes all the difference. It just makes everything so
much easier, in that "wow I can't believe I ever thought it could work any
other way" kind of way.

That was waaay too many words. Thanks to DC for the compliment, btw. It may
end up in a song, but then I've got stacks of lyrical bits and pieces laying
around.

BTW, you can study any of those "Classic Albums" DVDs and in each case the
engineer will inevitably just push up the faders on a copy of the original
master tapes and say to the camera: "It just mixes itself, doesn't it?" It
is astounding to hear, say, Fleetwood Mac's rhythm section isolated.
Unfuckingbelievable. Or Stevie's drums on a song from "Key of Life"....good
lord...it was played that way, you know?

Jimmy



"cujo" <chris@nospamapplemanstudio.com> wrote in message
news:43668989$1@linux...
>
>
> So are you using any EQ at mixdown?
> If so are you goin in to hardware?
>
>
>
> "uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >I have both. They call it the MP2EQ, or something like that, a single
> >channel of each racked side by side. I have them patched seperately in my
> >patch bay so I can use the EQ as a send from Paris.
> >
> >Look, I don't want to piss on the parade of anybody who can't afford the
> >good stuff. I've been there myself, I know how it feels.
> >
> >But my experience with DAW plugins has been anything but pleasurable.
I've
> >been training my ear since I was four years old, at least as an
audiophile,
> >and my journey as a studio-rat has been slowed and frustrated no end by
> >years of time wasted trying to get the sounds I know are possible to get,
> >but without having the gear necessary to make those sounds happen. It
took
> >me years to realize that part of my problem was plugins. I consider them
> a
> >scam perpetrated on innocent musicians who don't know better.
> >
> >High-end outboard gear is expensive for a reason. And, in this case at
> >least, you get what you pay for. It just sounds so fucking good. There's
> no
> >cloudiness, no endless tweaking, no lingering feeling of dissatisfaction,
> no
> >weird phasing sounds, no flatness; just sweet, clean, art-inducing
> >rightness. Well worth the money.
> >
> >I mean, sure you can get yourself a $200.00 guitar and set about learning
> to
> >play it, try to make some art with it. But the moment you pick up a
> >$1,000.00 guitar, you know the difference. It's infinitely easier to
play,
> >it sounds infinitely better, and it records infinitely better. It's just
> >that simple.
> >
> >Jimmy
> >
> >
> >"Pete Ruthenburg" <ruthenburg@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> >news:436653c1$1@linux...
> >>
> >> Hey Jimmy,
> >> So do you have the Great River eq or the pre or both?If you
> >> have the eq how do you like it;I'm sure its killer.
> >>
> >> Pete
> >>
> >> "uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >> >It doesn't.
> >> >
> >> >Paris EQs are usable in a pinch, which means I don't need them
anymore.
> >> >
> >> >Cuz I'm the proud owner of a Great River 1073... :)
> >> >
> >> >Jimmy
> >> >
> >> >"Mike Audet" <mike@mikeF-SPAMaudet.com> wrote in message
> >> >news:43661314@linux...
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi Jimmy,
> >> >>
> >> >> How do you find the paris eq stacks up against the 1073 eq?
> >> >>
> >> >> All the best,
> >> >> Mike
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> "uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >> >> >It's weird, how many people are using native plugins.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I've not used the UAD-1, so I felt the need to pipe up with that
> >caveat.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >But it is astounding how bad plugins sound, and how much time you
> can
> >> >spend
> >> >> >trying to get them to sound good; but when you plug in an 1176 or
> a
> >1073
> >> >> EQ
> >> >> >or a nice FX box (or even an RNC compressor), it takes about 10
> >seconds
> >> >> >before things just make more sense sonically. Outboard is still
> >> >light-years
> >> >> >ahead of plugins, in my somewhat informed opinion.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Jimmy
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"Mike Audet" <mike@mikeF-SPAMaudet.com> wrote in message
> >> >> >news:4365825c$1@linux...
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I agree with everything you just said about plugins. Exteral
> >harware
> >> >> just
> >> >> >> blows the doors off virtual.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Mike
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >> >> >> >I do not use plugins, and haven't for years. They do not sound
> as
> >> good
> >> >> as
> >> >> >> >high-quality outboard equipment, not on any level, and that's
> >putting
> >> >> it
> >> >> >> >very politely. I am shocked that companies like Waves make any
> >money
> >> >> at
> >> >> >> all
> >> >> >> >selling those kinds of products.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Paris is amazing, but I use it's EQ sparingly at most.
Ulitmately,
> >> for
> >> >> >me,
> >> >> >> >it's a glorified tape machine with an awesome built-in editing
> >> >> >capability,
> >> >> >> >plus some well-documented gain-staging "tips and tricks" that
sound
> >> >> >simply
> >> >> >> >delicious.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Jimmy
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >"Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote in message
> >> >> >> >news:43652386$1@linux...
> >> >> >> >> I've found with software less is almost always more. I went
> >through
> >> >> my
> >> >> >> >plug
> >> >> >> >> in craze phase.. ironically, I suspect phase and calculations
> are
> >> >what
> >> >> >> >> muddied up the mix. I know that we as an industry are in
trouble
> >> >when
> >> >> >> >every
> >> >> >> >> year, or less, we have to evaluate our tools and think we need
> >> >> >something
> >> >> >> >> new. I'm all down with improvement, but if things are growing
> >> >'that'
> >> >> >> >fast,
> >> >> >> >> then maybe we should have a look at what are we really using
> to
> >> >begin
> >> >> >> >with.
> >> >> >> >> Change can't generally happen that quickly and be for the long
> >term
> >> >> >good.
> >> >> >> >> Computers are a funny beast man.
> >> >> >> >> AA
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
> >> >> >> >> news:43651390@linux...
> >> >> >> >> > Ya know............Im sitting here listening to some
*roughs*
> >> of
> >> >> a
> >> >> >> >> > tracking
> >> >> >> >> > session I did Friday night. No compression, a very tiny bit
> of
> >> >> >> >subtractive
> >> >> >> >> > EQ, a tiny touch of NoLimit on the mix bus. That's it. The
> rest
> >> of
> >> >> >the
> >> >> >> >> > story
> >> >> >> >> > is using the Paris EQ makeup gain and the fader gain stages
> to
> >> get
> >> >> >the
> >> >> >> >> > *mixphat thing going*.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > I swear guys.......this sounds better to my ears than all of
> >the
> >> >> >> >1,000,000
> >> >> >> >> > gobazzillion plugin options I have available when using the
> SX
> >> rig
> >> >> >> >during
> >> >> >> >> > mixdown.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > It's pretty minimalist stuff to begin with......acoustic
rythym
> >> >> >guitar,
> >> >> >> >> > acoustic lead guitar, fiddle, electric bass and acoustic
drum
> >> >> >> >> > kit........but
> >> >> >> >> > that seems to be all I do these days anyway.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > Sometimes less is truly more.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > Deej
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >thanks john. that would be great. if you want to email it my email
is: jc@nonstopsound.com otherwise i'll look for it here.

thanks again.

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:18:12 -0500, John <no@no.com> wrote:

>I think I have it. I'm holding a 4 page document and put it in my
>copier and have it email it to me as pdf then I can post it. YEAH IT
>DOES THAT ! wow
>Then let me know if that is what you want. I bet it is.
>John
>
>jon chaikin wrote:
>> thanks for the pointer. i've yet to find the one that was on the
>> Ensoniq site which gave a step by step for using the aux sends to
>> create a headphone mix, but i'll keep looking.
>>
>> thanks again.
>>
>> jon
>>
>> On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 19:05:02 -0400, John <no@no.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>www.kfocus.com/paris
>>>
>>>Look under Paris, _Setup, Queue Mixes
>>>
>>>jon chaikin wrote:
>>>
>>>>i used to have a tutorial that showed how to setup a headphone mix
>>>>using the external effects system. does anyone still have a copy?
>>>>
>>>>thanks
>>>>
>>>>jon
>>
>>Rod, thanks for the tip.....but no, no other effects on any channel.

Would any irregular "configuration" settings affect this? (overview cache,
etc.)

Puzzling............

"Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@kc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>Do you have any other eds effects on that card..on any channel, or even
eds
>reverbs? No Limit is a resource hog. if you have some other effects anywhere
>in the submix you may be maxed out.
>Rod
>"Mike Yanoska" <yanoska@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>Tony,
>>
>>Sorry I wasn't a little more specific in my first post. Here is what I
>have:
>>
>>Single EDS card
>>442
>>C16
>>3.0 software on XP Pro
>>
>>The track has no other effects activated....also no sends (internal or
external).
>>
>>The odd thing is that all the other effects (compressor, delay, chorus,
>etc.)
>>can be initiated on the master buss....just not the noLIMIT plug.
>>
>>Let me know if I can provide any other info that would help. I have no
>problem
>>working with computers (I build Video, and some Audio, computers).
>>
>>Thanks again, Mike.
>>
>>
>>"Tony Benson" <t o n y@s t a n d i n g h a m p t o n.c o m> wrote:
>>>Mike,
>>>
>>>I'm assuming you have more than one EDS card? Is this right? The master
>>buss
>>>effects use card A's processing power. Make sure the submix assigned to
>>card
>>>A isn't using very many send and /or insert EDS effects. If this doesn't
>>
>>>help, give us some more details on your set-up.
>>>
>>>Tony
>>>
>>>
>>>"Mike Yanoska" <yanoska@cox.net> wrote in message news:43669bd4$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> With no other effects being used....I get this error message when trying
>>
>>>> to
>>>> use noLIMIT on the master bus: "An error occurred in creating insert.
>>The
>>>> effects resources are now maxed out. The specified effect can not be
>
>>>> created".
>>>>
>>>> Is there a configuration setting or change to the stockfx.ini file that
>>
>>>> would
>>>> eliminate this message and allow me to use noLIMIT on the master bus?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance. Mike.
>>>
>>>
>>
>Hey Dimitrios -- count me in. Appreciate your efforts to squeeze more
juice out of this old orphan platform of ours.

Chas.

On 28 Oct 2005 19:08:01 +1000, "Dimitrios" <musurgio@otenet.gr> wrote:

>
>Hello to everyone.
>After my last conversation with Adrian -wormhole's author- I have concluded
>that wormhole is not selling well ( where are we guys ?) so maybe major updates
>will get longer to support as he has to concentrate his efforts to "selling"
>appz.
>I wonder how we Parisians expect plugin authors like Adrian to support plugins
>like wormhole which are a godsend for Paris with tremendous present and future
>possibilities... (he is thinking of making wormhole lighter so to have even
>more instances).
>I don't see us people here supporting wormhole and that makes me sad and
>maybe all my efforts toward this direction will fail somehow.
>If we don't buy it how can we ask him for this and that ?
>Even two or three buys would not justify major -Paris oriented- updates with
>wormhole...
>Please sign here if you care for using wormhole even as two channel cross
>bridge beetween two computers (NOTE IT CAN BE USED ON SAME COMPUTER WITH
>DIFFERENT APPZ TOO).
>If we sign enouph people here (enouph depends I would say 10 and over I will
>kindly ask for a small discount for mass purchase.
>Please try wormhole and see for yourself how great this plugin is.
>We need Adrian (convince him make appz suited to Paris) and we certainly
>need wormhole.
>It will keep Paris alive for things to come no matter where audio technology
>will go.
>You will always have Paris thus connected with modern pc's doing what it
>is known to do best, sounding good when summing...
>Please forgive me if I am being so pushy with this but noone else except
>for Adrian (till now) has showed so much interest to help us ,Paris users.
>I wanna convince him make an automatic LATENCY compensator for VST plugins
>which I think would be great if succeeded.
>Believe me if only two-three Paris users will sign this I will be having
>no guts to ask him that or anything else.
>This plugin sells for 49 $ only...
>Please respond with signing also.
>With regards,
>DimitriosDear Dj,
Do you have your UAD's on Paris computer or on second pc ?
Secondly if you use inside Paris only 16 bit then the solution is using multifxvst
from inside chainer to have 2048 smaples latency around 40 ms...
And that is on the same computer with Paris.
I only use now (used to use even 32bit integer -not floating-) 16bit as it
sounds best to my ears so I have no probvlem using the above configuration
with UAD card.
As for the separate VST rack thing with or without wormhole I will continue
searching for the best solution for Paris.
Regards and thanks for your kind words.
Dimitrios




"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>Hi Dimitrio,
>
>Thanks for your answer. The issue for me with this is that I have already
>spent the $$$ to create a situation here that is zero latency while mixing.
>It's very fast and easy for *me* to use because I customized it to work
with
>all of my personal gear. I don't see any up side to my adding Wormhole to
>the mix unless it would allow me to keep my tracks in Paris and run a
>standalone VST rack on a second computer with very low latency (40ms tops).
>If I could do this, I could use Paris fader automation and not have to
>transport my tracks over to a second computer in order to stream them back
>to Paris with auto delay compensation in SX.
>
>It would be fairly simple to set up a mix template in Paris and just import
>rendered .paf's into it. I used to do this, but the cumulative latency (4
x
>UAD-1 plugins each needing 16000+ samples) made using Paris automation
>unusable. Come to think of it, the Wormhole configuration for this would
>have to have 40ms latency for *multiple* Paris plugins or the same situation
>would start to happen......adding more than one UAD plugin would increase
>the latency by another 40ms so the mix template would have to have a delay
>compensator for at least x UAD-1 plugins and then the automation options
>are maybe not so good becaus inste4ad of 40ms, every track in the mix
>template would have an inherent 160ms latency. That's very close to the
>highest buffer settings in the RME control panel (8192) and I have tried
>mixing at those settings using a Steinberg Houston controller. The latency
>was just too much to use the fader controller with any accuracy at all for
>critical mix moves. The automation lags too far behind the audio event.
>
>Now if the Spinaudio or other VST rack thingie could lower the latency of
>any number of UAD-1 plugins to 40ms, no matter how many plugins were used,
I
>might be all over this.
>
>I'm going to buy the Wormhole just because I think that this guy is someone
>who should be supported and I hope this helps out my fellow Parisites who
>are, quite frankly, going way beyond what I'm doing these days in terrms
of
>experimentation. Now that I've found a solution to my particular needs,
I've
>become a bit complacent.
>
>Perhaps I need to step outside the box again.......but my little box here
is
>working and is fairly comfortable.
>
>Thanks again for all of your efforts.
>
>;O)
>
>Deej
>
>
>"Dimitrio" <musurgio@otenet.gr> wrote in message news:4365e2e9$1@linux...
>>
>> DJ,
>> What I have tested to be rock solid and working by now is feeding audio
>from
>> a second pc using a daw like Cubase or whatever (delay compensation needed
>> there) use you audio tracks for mixing inside cubase use your plugins
>there
>> DX/VST/UAD1/POWERCORE and then send as groups or indivindually to Paris
>for
>> submixing.
>> I achieved rock solid perfectly alligned 24 tracks with 100mb lan and
2600
>> Intel processor.
>> You know here due to Paris submix delay bug you just need to compensate
>inside
>> Paris using Voxengo sample delay for the 8 tracks used on another submix.
>> Now using wormhole as insert I have not achieved synced results, maybe
I
>> am doing something wrong, Gene might jump into this, but my few tests
>could
>> not achieve synced results.
>> By the first way of using wormhole you have to note the following.
>> The tracks inside Paris that are wormholed are around 4000 samples apart
>> from audio tracks not wormholed, but from within cubase if you want hear
>> audio tracks along with audio tracks in Paris (not handy at all I guess)
>> you need to dleay (from inside wormhole host slider) the wormholing tracks
>> for 32756 samples which is a default anyway inside wormhole for best
>networking.
>> So to make things a little bit clearer.
>> If you have say 48 audio tracks inside Cubase and you are ready to mix
,
>> you put all your DX/VST etc effects from there and then subgrouping them
>> down to 24/32 (whatever your system permits as wormhole instances) and
>then
>> send them inside Paris to use the Paris mix engine and EDS effects.
>> In this way you don't care about the latency difference beetween audio
>tracks
>> in Paris and wormholed tracks.
>> First of all Cubase compensates automatically.
>> Note though that this extra compensation with host slider is ONLY needed
>> if you wanna hear at the same time tracks from Cubase and tracks from
>Paris.
>> BUT in the above scenario you 'should" not need to hear both , that cannot
>> mix your song right ?
>> You only need to hear the end wormhole instances inside Paris and from
>then
>> use your automation EDS effecting volume slamming, whatever.
>> If you think well you can only do that with wormhole I would answer this
>> would be a dream a year ago for Paris right ?
>> So I am a firmly believer that wormhole even doing only that (that could
>> change with updates or further tests though) is well worth it the 49
>bucks.
>> If you have cpu's over 3 gb with 1000 lan you could achieve maybe 48
>wormhole
>> instances fully synced...
>> Regards,
>> Dimitrios
>>
>>
>> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>> >Can I use Wormhole with a standalone VST rack of some sort to route audio
>> >from a Paris insert or aux, though the VST rack and then return it to
>> >Paris..........with 40ms latency?? I will want to use my 4 x UAD-1 cards
>> in
>> >the VST Rack and I will need low enough latency in Paris that I can keep
>> my
>> >tracks in Paris and use the Paris mix automation without problem. I
>think
>> I
>> >saw Dimitrios post here that he had achieved somewhere around 40ms
>latency
>> >using the FXPansion VST/DX wrapper? Not sure why he would need this if
>the
>> >UAD-1 cards are in another machine...........but anyway........can this
>> be
>> >done somehow? If it involves using Cubase SX.........well, I've already
>> got
>> >that happening with no latency as long as all tracks are being played
>back
>> >in SX. I need the tracks to stay in Paris and to process them either
>> >elsewhere, or in Paris with low enough latency that I can set up a mix
>> >template with 48 tracks and mix in Paris using the Paris
>> >automation............wait, didn't I already say that?
>> >
>> >Thanks,
>> >
>> >Deej
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C5DE96.C69436F0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Okay I did the mic shoot out but the files are way too large to=20
post here. It's 6 Meg. 16 tracks in all. If you want 'em I can email=20
them to you unless you have another way. I don't really want to be=20
printing disks.
Tom


"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote in message =
news:4365791b@linux...
Cujo,
I know what you're saying about the hi-gain sounds. The
414 is always abrassive here. I have been a 57 lover from
the getgo but am always fighting to reproduce what's coming from
the amp in the control room. =20

If the 121s can be murky maybe that will be true with the Shiny Box
also. I can say they accept paris high end eq very gracefully. Not
like a 57 or a 414. =20

The jury is in session as we speak...
Tom

"cujo" <chris@nospamapplemanstudio.com> wrote in message =
news:436568a1$1@linux...


Cool, one thing I really harp on wiht bands about guitars is less is =
more.
So many great guitar bands (Led Zep, The Who, zz Top, Hendix, and =
even more
modern stuff like The Smiths, or the Clash) did not use that JCM800 =
type
marshall sound but often used cleaner sounds and less wall of guitar =
overdubs
for sure than say Foo Fighters or something of that nature. so it =
seems that
many of the LDC's or even 57's can sound pretty abrasive with them, =
but these
High Gain amos can sound cool for sure, the ribbon may be just the =
trick.,I
know the 121s do ok for this, but I do think they sound at tad murky =
too.


"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>Dale and Cujo,
>Heres what I can tell you about the 46Ls:
>
>I haven't any ribbons to AB them with. My experience with
>Beyer M-160s was less than stellar so I am certainly biased.
>The information I got from Jon at Shiny Box is that the Lundahls =
make =3D
>the
>mics more clear from top to bottom. I know John Macy is preferring =
the
=3D
>standard
>46s over his Royer 121s on e. gtrs. I am going to hammer
>them tonight with some crunch guitars for yours and my benefit.
>I'll A-B them with a 57, 421 414 so you have some basis for my
>comments. I'll gain match too using the same pre.
>
>Maybe I'll post a short mp3 too. It's so subjective with all the =
=3D
>variables.
>I'll give you my gut feeling though.
>Tom
>
> "cujo" <chris@nospamapplemanstudio.com> wrote in message =3D
>news:4365146f$1@linux...
>
>
> I saw a pair of the SE ribbons at a dealer.=3D20
> They do look really well constructed, and I guess they are =
supposed to
=3D
>be
> a tad more airy than the Royer. They aint super cheap though as =
are =3D
>the shiny..
> I really do want to know about the diff in the tranny of the =
Shiny box
=3D
>mics,
> I am thinking a pair of these may fit the bill as room mics. Of =
course
=3D
>you
> afiten get what you pay for
> I also want to know how they sound on a crunchy master gain =
marshall.
>
> I heard a clip of DJ's gemini in action, how does the 5000 =
compare?
>
>
> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
> >I can't wait to give one of these SE ribbons a try. I'm very =3D
>impressed with
> >the SE stuff. We just used a matched pair of SE3's on some =
guitar =3D
>overdubs.
> >We compared them to a matched pair of Neumann KM 184's and a =
pair of
=3D
>AKG
> >C460B's before we committed to them. The SE3's sound great. I =
think
=3D
>this
> >company is hitting some home runs with some high quality =
products at
=3D
>very
> >good prices.
> >
> >Deej
> >
> >"Dale" <dalebradleycello@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:4364187c$1@linux...
> >>
> >> A buncha questions about these "ShinyBox" mics I hear tell =
of....
> >>
> >> So how does the ShinyBox sound compared with Beyer M160 & =
Royer =3D
>(both
> of
> >> which I have used)? Does a $310 mic (46L) really outperform a =
=3D
>Royer?!?
> >>
> >> I just scanned the shinybox.com, but didn't see much =
description of
=3D
>the
> >practical
> >> difference between the 46, 46C, & 46L except about the =3D
>transformers. How
> >> are the spendier ones better?
> >>
> >> I don't suppose anyone has got one of the new SE Electronics =
Ribbon
=3D
>mics
> >> to report on? I have one of their tube mics (SE 5000) which I =
like
=3D
>a lot.
> >>
> >> thanks,
> >> Dale
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> "John Macy" <spamlessjohn@johnmacy.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >Glad you like them, Tom. I think they are
> >> >a fantastic value. I use my 46's over my Royers
> >> >all the time, especially on electric guitars. I
> >> >know Darren Rahn for the group here got a pair
> >> >also and is verry pleased, too. Even the unmatched,
> >> >stock transformer 46's are pretty nice :)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>Had a project that called for tenor sax, vocals
> >> >>and a little egg shakin'.
> >> >>
> >> >>Used 'em on everything through the Precision 8
> >> >>with really great results.
> >> >>
> >> >>The best words to describe them are natural and not hyped.
> >> >>to remove the room coming off the backside of the figure 8.
> >> >>Vocals didn't need compression. I was singing and watching
> >> >>levels so that made this possible. They did seem slightly
> >> >>compressed sounding though. Even when the wave got
> >> >>squared off in Paris it didn't gack or even sound clipped.
> >> >>I rerecorded those spots because they looked bad...
> >> >>Odd but kinda cool. =3D3D20
> >> >>
> >> >>Vocals in the mix need lots of high end. Not a problem =
either.
> >> >>It was a disco thing with that sizzly sound that only a =
condensor
> >> >>should get. What I found was that these things took Paris' =
=3D
>eq=3D3D20
> >> >>sweetly. The esses didn't go over the edge and tone was =
smooth
> >> >>as silk. I did use La2a's across them at mixdown though. =
The =3D
>eggs
> >> >>recorded nicely and again sounded natural. One on each side =
of =3D
>the
> mic.
> >> >=3D3D
> >> >>=3D3D20
> >> >>
> >> >>These are the first ribbons I've used except for some Beyer =
M160s
=3D
>way
> =3D3D
> >> >>back.
> >> >>These are floating my boat right now. I think they will =
rock on
=3D
>brass
> >> =3D3D
> >> >>and=3D3D20
> >> >>crunch guitar. I'll find out about that when a 7 horn band =
comes
=3D
>in
> =3D3D
> >> >>soon.
> >> >>They needed a lot of gain. I was afraid to get any closer =
than =3D
>about
> 4"
> >> >=3D3D
> >> >>from them.
> >> >>Delicate little buggers you know. Of course I used a popper =
=3D
>stopper
> for
> >> >=3D3D
> >> >>safety
> >> >>which darkens the sound a bit too.=3D3D20
> >> >>
> >> >>At $700 or so for the matched pair.I think this is quite a =
=3D
>bargain =3D3D
> >> >>compared to=3D3D20
> >> >>the R121s etc. The Lundahls are supposed to give them more =
=3D
>clarity
> =3D3D
> >> >>across the board.
> >> >>Natural is what I call them. Not a bad choice if your =
looking =3D
>for =3D3D
> >> >>ribbons.
> >> >>
> >> >>Thanks to John Macy for turning us on to them. Jon, the =
owner of
=3D
>Shiny
> >> =3D3D
> >> >>Box
> >> >>was very helpful throughout the buying process. He also =
took =3D
>great
> care
> >> >=3D3D
> >> >>in first
> >> >>matching mics then matching transformers then matching the =
mics =3D
>=3D3D
> >> >>w/transformers.
> >> >>Painstaking I would say. I know it took him at least a day =
or =3D
>so.
> >> >>Tom
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 =
Transitional//EN">
> >> >><HTML><HEAD>
> >> >><META http-equiv=3D3D3DContent-Type =
content=3D3D3D"text/html; =3D3D
> >> >>charset=3D3D3Diso-8859-1">
> >> >><META content=3D3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" =
name=3D3D3DGENERATOR>
> >> >><STYLE></STYLE>
> >> >></HEAD>
> >> >><BODY bgColor=3D3D3D#ffffff>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Had a project that =
called =3D
>for tenor
> =3D3D
> >> >>sax,=3D3D20
> >> >>vocals</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>and a little egg =
=3D
>shakin'.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Used 'em on =
everything =3D
>through the
> =3D3D
> >> >>Precision=3D3D20
> >> >>8</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>with really great =
=3D
>results.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>The best words to =
describe =3D
>=3D3D
> >> >>them are natural=3D3D20
> >> >>and not hyped.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Made the sax sound =
just like
=3D
>the =3D3D
> >> >>sax. Had to=3D3D20
> >> >>be fairly close</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>to remove the room =
coming =3D
>off the =3D3D
> >> >>backside of the=3D3D20
> >> >>figure 8.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Vocals didn't need =
=3D3D
> >> >>compression. I was=3D3D20
> >> >>singing and watching</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>levels so that made =
this =3D3D
> >> >>possible. They did=3D3D20
> >> >>seem slightly</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>compressed sounding =
though.
=3D
>Even =3D3D
> >> >>when the=3D3D20
> >> >>wave got</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>squared off in =
Paris it =3D
>didn't gack
> or
> >> >=3D3D
> >> >>even sound=3D3D20
> >> >>clipped.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>I rerecorded those =
spots =3D
>because they
> >> =3D3D
> >> >>looked=3D3D20
> >> >>bad...</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Odd but kinda cool. =
=3D
></FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Vocals in the mix =
need lots
=3D
>of high
> =3D3D
> >> >>end. Not=3D3D20
> >> >>a problem either.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>It was a disco =
thing with =3D
>that sizzly
> >> =3D3D
> >> >>sound that=3D3D20
> >> >>only a condensor</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>should get. What I =
found was
=3D
>that these
> >> >=3D3D
> >> >>things took=3D3D20
> >> >>Paris' eq </FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>sweetly. The esses =
didn't =3D
>go over
> =3D3D
> >> >>the=3D3D20
> >> >>edge and tone was smooth</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>as silk. I did use =
La2a's =3D
>across =3D3D
> >> >>them at=3D3D20
> >> >>mixdown though. The eggs</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>recorded nicely and =
again =3D
>sounded =3D3D
> >> >>natural. =3D3D20
> >> >>One on each side of the mic. </FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>These are the first =
ribbons
=3D
>I've used
> >> =3D3D
> >> >>except for=3D3D20
> >> >>some Beyer M160s way back.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>These are floating =
my boat =3D
>right =3D3D
> >> >>now. I think=3D3D20
> >> >>they will rock on brass and </FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>crunch guitar. =
I'll find =3D
>out =3D3D
> >> >>about=3D3D20
> >> >></FONT><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>that when a 7 =
horn band =3D
>comes in=3D3D20
> >> >>soon.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>They needed a lot =
of gain.=20
=3D
>I was =3D3D
> >> >>afraid to=3D3D20
> >> >>get any closer than about 4" from them.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Delicate little =
buggers you
=3D
>know.=3D20
> =3D3D
> >> >>Of course I=3D3D20
> >> >>used a popper stopper for safety</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>which darkens the =
sound a =3D
>bit too.
> =3D3D
> >> >></FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>At $700 or so for =
the =3D
>matched =3D3D
> >> >>pair.</FONT><FONT=3D3D20
> >> >>face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>I think this is quite a =
bargain =3D
>compared to =3D3D
> >> >></FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>the R121s etc. The =
Lundahls
=3D
>=3D3D
> >> >></FONT><FONT=3D3D20
> >> >>face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>are supposed to give them more =
clarity
=3D
>across
> >the=3D3D20
> >> >>board.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Natural is what I =
call them.
=3D
> =3D3D
> >> >></FONT><FONT=3D3D20
> >> >>face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Not a bad choice if your =
looking for =3D
>=3D3D
> >> >>ribbons.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Thanks to John Macy =
for =3D
>turning us
> on
> >> =3D3D
> >> >>to them. Jon,=3D3D20
> >> >>the owner of Shiny Box</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>was very helpful =
throughout
=3D
>the
> >buying=3D3D20
> >> >>process. He also took great care in first</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>matching mics then =
matching
=3D
>=3D3D
> >> >>transformers then=3D3D20
> >> >>matching the mics w/transformers.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Painstaking I would =
say. I
=3D
>know =3D3D
> >> >>it took him=3D3D20
> >> >>at least a day or so.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2></FONT> =
</DIV></BODY></HTML>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><HTML><HEAD>
><META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D
>charset=3D3Diso-8859-1">
><META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3D3DGENERATOR>
><STYLE></STYLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Dale and Cujo,</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Heres what I can tell you =
about the=3D20
>46Ls:</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>I haven't any ribbons to AB =
them =3D
>with. My=3D20
>experience with</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Beyer M-160s was less than =
stellar so I
=3D
>am=3D20
>certainly biased.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>The information </FONT><FONT =
=3D
>face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>I=3D20
>got from Jon at Shiny Box is that the Lundahls make =
the</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>mics more clear from top to =
=3D
>bottom. I know=3D20
>John Macy is </FONT><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>preferring the =
=3D
>standard</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>46s over his Royer 121s on e. =
=3D
>gtrs. I am=3D20
>going to hammer</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>them tonight with some crunch =
guitars =3D
>for yours and=3D20
>my benefit.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>I'll A-B them with a 57, 421 =
414 so you
=3D
>have some=3D20
>basis for my</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>comments. I'll gain match too =
=3D
>using the same=3D20
>pre.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Maybe I'll post a short mp3 =
too. =3D
>It's so=3D20
>subjective with all the variables.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>I'll give you my gut feeling =
=3D
>though.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><BLOCKQUOTE=3D20
>style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
=3D
>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> <DIV>"cujo" <<A=3D20
> =3D
=
>href=3D3D"mailto:chris@nospamapplemanstudio.com">chris@nospamapplemanstu=
dio=3D
>.com</A>>=3D20
> wrote in message <A=3D20
> =3D
=
>href=3D3D"news:4365146f$1@linux">news:4365146f$1@linux</A>...</DIV><BR><=
BR>=3D
>I saw a=3D20
> pair of the SE ribbons at a dealer. <BR>They do look really well =
=3D
>constructed,=3D20
> and I guess they are supposed to be<BR>a tad more airy than the =
Royer.
=3D
>They=3D20
> aint super cheap though as are the shiny..<BR>I really do want to =
know
=3D
>about=3D20
> the diff in the tranny of the Shiny box mics,<BR>I am thinking a =
pair
=3D
>of these=3D20
> may fit the bill as room mics. Of course you<BR>afiten get what =
you =3D
>pay=3D20
> for<BR>I also want to know how they sound on a crunchy master =
gain=3D20
> marshall.<BR><BR>I heard a clip of DJ's gemini in action, how =
does the
=3D
>5000=3D20
> compare?<BR><BR><BR>"DJ" <<A=3D20
> =3D
=
>href=3D3D"mailto:animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net">animix_spam-this-ah=
ole=3D
>_@animas.net</A>>=3D20
> wrote:<BR>>I can't wait to give one of these SE ribbons a try. =
I'm =3D
>very=3D20
> impressed with<BR>>the SE stuff. We just used a matched pair of =
=3D
>SE3's on=3D20
> some guitar overdubs.<BR>>We compared them to a matched pair of =
=3D
>Neumann KM=3D20
> 184's and a pair of AKG<BR>>C460B's before we committed to them. =
=3D
>The SE3's=3D20
> sound great. I think this<BR>>company is hitting some home =3D
>runs with=3D20
> some high quality products at very<BR>>good=3D20
> prices.<BR>><BR>>Deej<BR>><BR>>"Dale" <<A=3D20
> =3D
=
>href=3D3D"mailto:dalebradleycello@yahoo.com">dalebradleycello@yahoo.com<=
/A>=3D
>>=3D20
> wrote in =3D
>message<BR>>news:4364187c$1@linux...<BR>>><BR>>> A=3D20
> buncha questions about these "ShinyBox" mics I hear tell=3D20
> of....<BR>>><BR>>> So how does the ShinyBox sound compared =3D
>with=3D20
> Beyer M160 & Royer (both<BR>of<BR>>> which I have used)? =3D
>Does a $310=3D20
> mic (46L) really outperform a Royer?!?<BR>>><BR>>> I just =3D
>scanned=3D20
> the shinybox.com, but didn't see much description of=3D20
> the<BR>>practical<BR>>> difference between the 46, 46C, & =3D
>46L=3D20
> except about the transformers. How<BR>>> are the spendier =
ones=3D20
> better?<BR>>><BR>>> I don't suppose anyone has got one of =3D
>the new=3D20
> SE Electronics Ribbon mics<BR>>> to report on? I have one of =3D
>their tube=3D20
> mics (SE 5000) which I like a lot.<BR>>><BR>>> =3D
>thanks,<BR>>>=3D20
> Dale<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> "John Macy" =3D
><<A=3D20
> =3D
=
>href=3D3D"mailto:spamlessjohn@johnmacy.com">spamlessjohn@johnmacy.com</A=
>&g=3D
>t;=3D20
> wrote:<BR>>> ><BR>>> >Glad you like them, Tom. =3D
>I think=3D20
> they are<BR>>> >a fantastic value. I use my 46's over =3D
>my=3D20
> Royers<BR>>> >all the time, especially on electric =3D
>guitars. =3D20
> I<BR>>> >know Darren Rahn for the group here got a =3D
>pair<BR>>>=3D20
> >also and is verry pleased, too. Even the =3D
>unmatched,<BR>>>=3D20
> >stock transformer 46's are pretty nice :)<BR>>> =3D
>><BR>>>=3D20
> ><BR>>> >"Tom Bruhl" <<A=3D20
> =
href=3D3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>>=3D20
> wrote:<BR>>> >><BR>>> >><BR>>> =3D
>>>Had a=3D20
> project that called for tenor sax, vocals<BR>>> >>and a =3D
>little egg=3D20
> shakin'.<BR>>> >><BR>>> >>Used 'em on =3D
>everything=3D20
> through the Precision 8<BR>>> >>with really great=3D20
> results.<BR>>> >><BR>>> >>The best words to =3D
>describe=3D20
> them are natural and not hyped.<BR>>> >>to remove the room =3D
>coming=3D20
> off the backside of the figure 8.<BR>>> >>Vocals didn't =3D
>need=3D20
> compression. I was singing and watching<BR>>> =3D
>>>levels so=3D20
> that made this possible. They did seem slightly<BR>>>=3D20
> >>compressed sounding though. Even when the wave =3D
>got<BR>>>=3D20
> >>squared off in Paris it didn't gack or even sound =3D
>clipped.<BR>>>=3D20
> >>I rerecorded those spots because they looked =3D
>bad...<BR>>>=3D20
> >>Odd but kinda cool. =3D3D20<BR>>> >><BR>>>=3D20
> >>Vocals in the mix need lots of high end. Not a problem=3D20
> either.<BR>>> >>It was a disco thing with that sizzly =3D
>sound that=3D20
> only a condensor<BR>>> >>should get. What I found was that =3D
>these=3D20
> things took Paris' eq=3D3D20<BR>>> >>sweetly. The =3D
>esses didn't=3D20
> go over the edge and tone was smooth<BR>>> >>as =3D
>silk. I did=3D20
> use La2a's across them at mixdown though. The eggs<BR>>>=3D20
> >>recorded nicely and again sounded natural. One on each =3D
>side of=3D20
> the<BR>mic.<BR>>> >=3D3D<BR>>> >>=3D3D20<BR>>>=3D20
> >><BR>>> >>These are the first ribbons I've used =3D
>except for=3D20
> some Beyer M160s way<BR>=3D3D<BR>>> >>back.<BR>>> =3D
>>>These=3D20
> are floating my boat right now. I think they will rock on=3D20
> brass<BR>>> =3D3D<BR>>> >>and=3D3D20<BR>>> =3D
>>>crunch=3D20
> guitar. I'll find out about that when a 7 horn band comes=3D20
> in<BR>=3D3D<BR>>> >>soon.<BR>>> >>They needed a =3D
>lot of=3D20
> gain. I was afraid to get any closer than =3D
>about<BR>4"<BR>>>=3D20
> >=3D3D<BR>>> >>from them.<BR>>> >>Delicate =3D
>little=3D20
> buggers you know. Of course I used a popper =3D
>stopper<BR>for<BR>>>=3D20
> >=3D3D<BR>>> >>safety<BR>>> >>which darkens =3D
>the sound a=3D20
> bit too.=3D3D20<BR>>> >><BR>>> >>At $700 or so =3D
>for the=3D20
> matched pair.I think this is quite a bargain =3D3D<BR>>> =3D
>>>compared=3D20
> to=3D3D20<BR>>> >>the R121s etc. The Lundahls are =3D
>supposed to=3D20
> give them more clarity<BR>=3D3D<BR>>> >>across the =3D
>board.<BR>>>=3D20
> >>Natural is what I call them. Not a bad choice if your =3D
>looking=3D20
> for =3D3D<BR>>> >>ribbons.<BR>>> >><BR>>>=3D20
> >>Thanks to John Macy for turning us on to them. Jon, the owner =
=3D
>of=3D20
> Shiny<BR>>> =3D3D<BR>>> >>Box<BR>>> >>was =3D
>very=3D20
> helpful throughout the buying process. He also took=3D20
> great<BR>care<BR>>> >=3D3D<BR>>> >>in =3D
>first<BR>>>=3D20
> >>matching mics then matching transformers then matching the =3D
>mics=3D20
> =3D3D<BR>>> >>w/transformers.<BR>>> =3D
>>>Painstaking I would=3D20
> say. I know it took him at least a day or so.<BR>>>=3D20
> >>Tom<BR>>> >><BR>>> >><BR>>>=3D20
> >><BR>>> >><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD =3D
>HTML 4.0=3D20
> Transitional//EN"><BR>>> =3D
>>><HTML><HEAD><BR>>>=3D20
> >><META http-equiv=3D3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D3D"text/html; =
=3D
>=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>charset=3D3D3Diso-8859-1"><BR>>> >><META=3D20
> content=3D3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3D3D3DGENERATOR><BR>>> =
=3D
>
> >><STYLE></STYLE><BR>>>=3D20
> >></HEAD><BR>>> >><BODY=3D20
> bgColor=3D3D3D#ffffff><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =3D
>face=3D3D3DArial=3D20
> size=3D3D3D2>Had a project that called for =
tenor<BR>=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>sax,=3D3D20<BR>>>=3D20
> >>vocals</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=3D20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>and a little =3D
>egg=3D20
> shakin'.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =3D
>>><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2></FONT> </DIV><BR>>>=3D20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Used 'em on =3D
>everything=3D20
> through the<BR>=3D3D<BR>>> >>Precision=3D3D20<BR>>>=3D20
> >>8</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =3D
>>><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>with really great=3D20
> results.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =3D
>>><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2></FONT> </DIV><BR>>>=3D20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>The best =3D
>words to=3D20
> describe =3D3D<BR>>> >>them are natural=3D3D20<BR>>> =3D
>>>and not=3D20
> hyped.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =3D
>>><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Made the sax sound just like the =
=3D
>=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>sax. Had to=3D3D20<BR>>> >>be fairly=3D20
> close</FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =3D
>
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>to remove the room coming off the =
=3D
>=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>backside of the=3D3D20<BR>>> >>figure=3D20
> 8.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Vocals didn't need =3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>compression. I was=3D3D20<BR>>> >>singing and=3D20
> watching</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =3D
>>><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>levels so that made this =
=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>possible. They did=3D3D20<BR>>> >>seem=3D20
> slightly</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =3D
>>><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>compressed sounding though. Even =
=3D
>=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>when the=3D3D20<BR>>> >>wave=3D20
> got</FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>squared off in Paris it didn't =3D
>gack<BR>or<BR>>>=3D20
> >=3D3D<BR>>> >>even sound=3D3D20<BR>>>=3D20
> >>clipped.</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=3D20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>I rerecorded =3D
>those spots=3D20
> because they<BR>>> =3D3D<BR>>> =3D
>>>looked=3D3D20<BR>>>=3D20
> >>bad...</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=3D20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Odd but kinda =3D
>cool. =3D20
> </FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =3D
>face=3D3D3DArial=3D20
> size=3D3D3D2></FONT> </DIV><BR>>> =3D
>>><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Vocals in the mix need lots of =3D
>high<BR>=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>end. Not=3D3D20<BR>>> >>a problem=3D20
> either.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =3D
>>><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>It was a disco thing with that =3D
>sizzly<BR>>>=3D20
> =3D3D<BR>>> >>sound that=3D3D20<BR>>> >>only a=3D20
> condensor</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =3D
>>><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>should get. What I found was that =
=3D
>these<BR>>>=3D20
> >=3D3D<BR>>> >>things took=3D3D20<BR>>> =3D
>>>Paris' eq=3D20
> </FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =3D
>face=3D3D3DArial=3D20
> size=3D3D3D2>sweetly. The esses didn't go =3D
>over<BR>=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>the=3D3D20<BR>>> >>edge and tone was=3D20
> smooth</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =3D
>>><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>as silk. I did use La2a's across =
=3D
>=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>them at=3D3D20<BR>>> >>mixdown though. The=3D20
> eggs</FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>recorded nicely and again sounded =
=3D
>=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>natural. =3D3D20<BR>>> >>One on each side of the =3D
>mic. =3D20
> </FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =3D
>face=3D3D3DArial=3D20
> size=3D3D3D2></FONT> </DIV><BR>>> =3D
>>><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>These are the first ribbons I've =
=3D
>used<BR>>>=3D20
> =3D3D<BR>>> >>except for=3D3D20<BR>>> >>some Beyer =3D
>M160s way=3D20
> back.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =3D
>
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>These are floating my boat right =
=3D
>=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>now. I think=3D3D20<BR>>> >>they will rock on =3D
>brass and=3D20
> </FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =3D
>face=3D3D3DArial=3D20
> size=3D3D3D2>crunch guitar. I'll find out =3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>about=3D3D20<BR>>> >></FONT><FONT =3D
>face=3D3D3DArial=3D20
> size=3D3D3D2>that when a 7 horn band comes in=3D3D20<BR>>>=3D20
> >>soon.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =3D
>>><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>They needed a lot of gain. I was =
=3D
>=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>afraid to=3D3D20<BR>>> >>get any closer than about =3D
>4" from=3D20
> them.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =3D
>
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Delicate little buggers you know. =
=3D
><BR>=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>Of course I=3D3D20<BR>>> >>used a popper stopper for =3D
>
> safety</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =3D
>>><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>which darkens the sound a bit =3D
>too.<BR>=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >></FONT></DIV><BR>>> =3D
>>><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2></FONT> </DIV><BR>>>=3D20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>At $700 or so =3D
>for the=3D20
> matched =3D3D<BR>>> =3D
>>>pair.</FONT><FONT=3D3D20<BR>>>=3D20
> >>face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>I think this is quite a bargain =
=3D
>compared to=3D20
> =3D3D<BR>>> >></FONT></DIV><BR>>>=3D20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>the R121s =3D
>etc. The=3D20
> Lundahls =3D3D<BR>>> =3D
>>></FONT><FONT=3D3D20<BR>>>=3D20
> >>face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>are supposed to give them more =
=3D
>clarity=3D20
> across<BR>>the=3D3D20<BR>>>=3D20
> >>board.</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=3D20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Natural is =3D
>what I call=3D20
> them. =3D3D<BR>>> =3D
>>></FONT><FONT=3D3D20<BR>>>=3D20
> >>face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Not a bad choice if your looking =
=3D
>for=3D20
> =3D3D<BR>>> >>ribbons.</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=3D20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2></FONT> =3D
>
> </DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial=3D20
> size=3D3D3D2>Thanks to John Macy for turning us<BR>on<BR>>> =3D
>=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>to them. Jon,=3D3D20<BR>>> >>the owner of Shiny=3D20
> Box</FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>was very helpful throughout=3D20
> the<BR>>buying=3D3D20<BR>>> >>process. He also took =3D
>great=3D20
> care in first</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =3D
>>><DIV><FONT=3D20
> face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>matching mics then matching =3D
>=3D3D<BR>>>=3D20
> >>transformers then=3D3D20<BR>>> >>matching the mics=3D20
> w/transformers.</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=3D20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2>Painstaking I =3D
>would=3D20
> say. I know =3D3D<BR>>> >>it took him=3D3D20<BR>>> =3D
>>>at=3D20
> least a day or so.</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=3D20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial=3D20
> size=3D3D3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=3D20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2></FONT> =3D
>
> </DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3D3DArial=3D20
> size=3D3D3D2></FONT> =3D
></DIV></BODY></HTML><BR>>>=3D20
> >><BR>>> >><BR>>>=3D20
>><BR>><BR>><BR>></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
>
>
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Okay I did the mic shoot out but the =
files are way=20
too large to </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>post here.&nbsp; It's 6 Meg.&nbsp; 16 =
tracks in=20
all.&nbsp; If you want 'em I can email </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>them to you </FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>unless=20
you </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>have another way.&nbsp; I don't =
really want=20
to be </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>printing disks.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Tom Bruhl" &lt;<A=20
href=3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>&gt; wrote =
in message=20
<A href=3D"news:4365791b@linux">news:4365791b@linux</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cujo,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I know what you're saying about the =
hi-gain=20
sounds.&nbsp; The</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>414 is always abrassive here.&nbsp; I =
have been a=20
57 lover from</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the getgo but am always fighting to =
reproduce=20
what's coming from</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the amp in the control=20
room.&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If the 121s can be murky maybe that =
will be true=20
with the Shiny Box</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>also.&nbsp; I can say =
they&nbsp;accept paris high=20
end eq very gracefully.&nbsp; Not</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>like a 57 or a 414.&nbsp; =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The jury is in session as we=20
speak...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"cujo" &lt;<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:chris@nospamapplemanstudio.com">chris@nospamapplemanstudio=
..com</A>&gt;=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:436568a1$1@linux">news:436568a1$1@linux</A>...</DIV><BR><BR>=
Cool,=20
one thing I really harp on wiht bands about guitars is less is =
more.<BR>So=20
many great guitar bands (Led Zep, The Who, zz Top, Hendix, and even=20
more<BR>modern stuff like The Smiths, or the Clash) did not use that =
JCM800=20
type<BR>marshall sound but often used cleaner sounds and less wall =
of guitar=20
overdubs<BR>for sure than say Foo Fighters or something of that =
nature. so=20
it seems that<BR>many of the LDC's or even 57's can sound pretty =
abrasive=20
with them, but these<BR>High Gain amos can sound cool for sure, the =
ribbon=20
may be just the trick.,I<BR>know the 121s do ok for this, but I do =
think=20
they sound at tad murky too.<BR><BR><BR>"Tom Bruhl" &lt;<A=20
href=3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>&gt;=20
wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Dale and Cujo,<BR>&gt;Heres what I can =
tell=20
you about the 46Ls:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I haven't any ribbons to AB them=20
with.&nbsp; My experience with<BR>&gt;Beyer M-160s was less than =
stellar so=20
I am certainly biased.<BR>&gt;The information I got from Jon at =
Shiny Box is=20
that the Lundahls make =3D<BR>&gt;the<BR>&gt;mics more clear from =
top to=20
bottom.&nbsp; I know John Macy is preferring=20
the<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;standard<BR>&gt;46s over his Royer 121s on e. =
gtrs.&nbsp; I=20
am going to hammer<BR>&gt;them tonight with some crunch guitars for =
yours=20
and my benefit.<BR>&gt;I'll A-B them with a 57, 421 414 so you have =
some=20
basis for my<BR>&gt;comments.&nbsp; I'll gain match too using the =
same=20
pre.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Maybe I'll post a short mp3 too.&nbsp; It's so=20
subjective with all the =3D<BR>&gt;variables.<BR>&gt;I'll give you =
my gut=20
feeling though.<BR>&gt;Tom<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; "cujo" &lt;<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:chris@nospamapplemanstudio.com">chris@nospamapplemanstudio=
..com</A>&gt;=20
wrote in message=20
=3D<BR>&gt;news:4365146f$1@linux...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; I =
saw a pair=20
of the SE ribbons at a dealer.=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; They do look =
really well=20
constructed, and I guess they are supposed =
to<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;be<BR>&gt;&nbsp; a=20
tad more airy than the Royer. They aint super cheap though as are=20
=3D<BR>&gt;the shiny..<BR>&gt;&nbsp; I really do want to know about =
the diff=20
in the tranny of the Shiny box<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;mics,<BR>&gt;&nbsp; I =
am thinking=20
a pair of these may fit the bill as room mics. Of=20
course<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;you<BR>&gt;&nbsp; afiten get what you pay=20
for<BR>&gt;&nbsp; I also want to know how they sound on a crunchy =
master=20
gain marshall.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; I heard a clip of DJ's gemini =
in=20
action, how does the 5000 compare?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
"DJ" &lt;<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net">animix_spam-this-ahole=
_@animas.net</A>&gt;=20
wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;I can't wait to give one of these SE =
ribbons a try.=20
I'm very =3D<BR>&gt;impressed with<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;the SE stuff. =
We just=20
used a matched pair of SE3's on some guitar =
=3D<BR>&gt;overdubs.<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;We compared them to a matched pair of Neumann KM 184's and a =
pair=20
of<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;AKG<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;C460B's before we committed =
to them.=20
The SE3's sound great.&nbsp; I =
think<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;this<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;company is hitting some home runs with some high quality =
products=20
at<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;very<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;good prices.<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;Deej<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;"Dale"=20
&lt;<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:dalebradleycello@yahoo.com">dalebradleycello@yahoo.com</A>=
&gt;=20
wrote in message<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;news:4364187c$1@linux...<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; A buncha questions about these =
"ShinyBox"=20
mics I hear tell of....<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt; So how=20
does the ShinyBox sound compared with Beyer M160 &amp; Royer=20
=3D<BR>&gt;(both<BR>&gt;&nbsp; of<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; which I =
have used)?=20
Does a $310 mic (46L) really outperform a =
=3D<BR>&gt;Royer?!?<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; I just scanned the shinybox.com, but =
didn't=20
see much description of<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;the<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;practical<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; difference between the 46, 46C, =
&amp;=20
46L except about the =3D<BR>&gt;transformers. How<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt; are=20
the spendier ones better?<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt; I=20
don't suppose anyone has got one of the new SE Electronics=20
Ribbon<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;mics<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; to report on? I =
have one of=20
their tube mics (SE 5000) which I like<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;a =
lot.<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; thanks,<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
Dale<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; "John Macy" &lt;<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:spamlessjohn@johnmacy.com">spamlessjohn@johnmacy.com</A>&g=
t;=20
wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;Glad =
you like=20
them, Tom.&nbsp; I think they are<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;a =
fantastic=20
value.&nbsp; I use my 46's over my Royers<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;all the=20
time, especially on electric guitars.&nbsp; I<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =

&gt;know Darren Rahn for the group here got a pair<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;also and is verry pleased, too.&nbsp; Even the =
unmatched,<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt; &gt;stock transformer 46's are pretty nice :)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =

&gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;"Tom=20
Bruhl" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>&gt;=20
wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Had a project that called =
for tenor=20
sax, vocals<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;and a little egg=20
shakin'.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;Used=20
'em on everything through the Precision 8<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;with really great results.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;The best words to describe =
them are=20
natural and not hyped.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;to remove the =
room=20
coming off the backside of the figure 8.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;Vocals didn't need compression.&nbsp; I was singing and=20
watching<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;levels so that made this=20
possible.&nbsp; They did seem slightly<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;compressed sounding though.&nbsp; Even when the wave=20
got<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;squared off in Paris it didn't =
gack or=20
even sound clipped.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;I rerecorded =
those spots=20
because they looked bad...<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Odd but =
kinda=20
cool. =3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =

&gt;&gt;Vocals in the mix need lots of high end.&nbsp; Not a problem =

either.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;It was a disco thing with =
that sizzly=20
sound that only a condensor<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;should =
get. What=20
I found was that these things took Paris' =
=3D<BR>&gt;eq=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;sweetly.&nbsp; The esses didn't go over the edge =
and tone=20
was smooth<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;as silk.&nbsp; I did use =
La2a's=20
across them at mixdown though.&nbsp; The =
=3D<BR>&gt;eggs<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;recorded nicely and again sounded natural.&nbsp; =
One on=20
each side of =3D<BR>&gt;the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; mic.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;These are the first ribbons =
I've=20
used except for some Beyer M160s<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;way<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;back.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;These are floating my boat right now.&nbsp; I think they =
will rock=20
on<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;brass<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;and=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;crunch =
guitar.&nbsp; I'll=20
find out about that when a 7 horn band =
comes<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;in<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;soon.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;They=20
needed a lot of gain.&nbsp; I was afraid to get any closer than=20
=3D<BR>&gt;about<BR>&gt;&nbsp; 4"<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;from them.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Delicate =
little=20
buggers you know.&nbsp; Of course I used a popper=20
=3D<BR>&gt;stopper<BR>&gt;&nbsp; for<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;safety<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;which darkens the sound a bit too.=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;At $700 or so for the =
matched pair.I=20
think this is quite a =3D<BR>&gt;bargain =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;compared to=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;the R121s =
etc.&nbsp;=20
The Lundahls are supposed to give them more =
=3D<BR>&gt;clarity<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;across the board.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;Natural is what I call them.&nbsp; Not a bad choice if your =
looking=20
=3D<BR>&gt;for =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;ribbons.<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Thanks to John Macy =
for=20
turning us on to them. Jon, the owner =
of<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;Shiny<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt; =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Box<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;was very helpful throughout the buying process.&nbsp; He =
also took=20
=3D<BR>&gt;great<BR>&gt;&nbsp; care<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;in first<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;matching mics then matching transformers then matching the =
mics=20
=3D<BR>&gt;=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;w/transformers.<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Painstaking I would say.&nbsp; I know it took him =
at least=20
a day or =3D<BR>&gt;so.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;Tom<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC=20
"-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;<BR >&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;&lt;META=20
http-equiv=3D3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D3D"text/html; =
=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;charset=3D3D3Diso-8859-1"&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;META content=3D3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400"=20
name=3D3D3DGENERATOR&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;<BR >&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;/HEAD&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&lt;BODY=20
bgColor=3D3D3D#ffffff&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT=20
face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;Had a project that called =
=3D<BR>&gt;for=20
tenor<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;sax,=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;vocals&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV& gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;and a =
little egg=20
=3D<BR>&gt;shakin'.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial =
size=3D3D3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;=20
&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT=20
face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;Used 'em on everything =
=3D<BR>&gt;through=20
the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;Precision=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;8&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR >&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;with =
really great=20
=3D<BR>&gt;results.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial =
size=3D3D3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;=20
&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT=20
face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;The best words to describe=20
=3D<BR>&gt;=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;them are=20
natural=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;and not=20
hyped.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;Made =
the sax sound=20
just like<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;the =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;sax.&nbsp; Had=20
to=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;be fairly=20
close&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;to =
remove the room=20
coming =3D<BR>&gt;off the =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;backside of=20
the=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;figure=20
8.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;Vocals =
didn't need=20
=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;compression.&nbsp; I=20
was=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;singing and=20
watching&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;levels =
so that made=20
this =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;possible.&nbsp; They=20
did=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;seem=20
slightly&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial =
size=3D3D3D2&gt;compressed sounding=20
though.<BR>&nbsp;=3D<BR>&gt;Even =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;when=20
the=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;wave=20
got&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;squared =
off in=20
Paris it =3D<BR>&gt;didn't gack<BR>&gt;&nbsp; or<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;even =
sound=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;clipped.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&am p;gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;I =
rerecorded those=20
spots =3D<BR>&gt;because they<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;looked=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;bad...&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV& gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;Odd but =
kinda=20
cool.&nbsp; =3D<BR>&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR >&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial =
size=3D3D3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;=20
&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT=20
face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;Vocals in the mix need =
lots<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;of=20
high<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;end.&nbsp;=20
Not=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;a problem=20
either.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;It was =
a disco=20
thing with =3D<BR>&gt;that sizzly<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;sound that=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;only a=20
condensor&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;should =
get. What I=20
found was<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;that these<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;things =
took=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Paris' eq &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial =
size=3D3D3D2&gt;sweetly.&nbsp; The=20
esses didn't =3D<BR>&gt;go over<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;the=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;edge and tone was=20
smooth&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;as =
silk.&nbsp; I=20
did use La2a's =3D<BR>&gt;across =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;them=20
at=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;mixdown though.&nbsp; The=20
eggs&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial =
size=3D3D3D2&gt;recorded nicely and=20
again =3D<BR>&gt;sounded =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;natural.=20
=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;One on each side of the =
mic.&nbsp;=20
&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT=20
face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt; =
&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial =
size=3D3D3D2&gt;These are=20
the first ribbons<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;I've used<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;except for=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;some Beyer M160s way =
back.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial =
size=3D3D3D2&gt;These are=20
floating my boat =3D<BR>&gt;right =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;now.&nbsp; I think=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;they will=20
rock on brass and &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;crunch=20
guitar.&nbsp; I'll find =3D<BR>&gt;out =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;about=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;FONT=20
face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;that when a 7 horn band =
=3D<BR>&gt;comes=20
in=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;soon.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&g t; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;They =
needed a lot=20
of gain. <BR>=3D<BR>&gt;I was =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;afraid=20
to=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;get any closer than about =
4" from=20
them.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial =
size=3D3D3D2&gt;Delicate little=20
buggers you<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;know.=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;Of course I=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;used a =
popper=20
stopper for safety&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;which =
darkens the=20
sound a =3D<BR>&gt;bit too.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR >&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial =
size=3D3D3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;=20
&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT=20
face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;At $700 or so for the =
=3D<BR>&gt;matched=20
=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;pair.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;FONT=3D3D2 0 <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;I think this is quite a =
bargain=20
=3D<BR>&gt;compared to =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR >&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;the =
R121s=20
etc.&nbsp; The Lundahls<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;FONT=3D3D20<BR >&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;are supposed to give them =
more=20
clarity<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;across<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;the=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;board.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV& gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;Natural =
is what I=20
call them.<BR>=3D<BR>&gt; =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;FONT=3D3D20<BR >&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;Not a bad choice if your =
looking for=20
=3D<BR>&gt;=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;ribbons.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&am p;gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial =
size=3D3D3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;=20
&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT=20
face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;Thanks to John Macy for =
=3D<BR>&gt;turning=20
us<BR>&gt;&nbsp; on<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;to them. Jon,=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;the =
owner of Shiny=20
Box&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;was =
very helpful=20
throughout<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;buying=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;process.&nbsp; He also took great care in=20
first&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial =
size=3D3D3D2&gt;matching mics then=20
matching<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;=3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;transformers=20
then=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;matching the mics=20
w/transformers.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR >&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial =
size=3D3D3D2&gt;Painstaking I would=20
say.&nbsp; I<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;know =3D3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;it took=20
him=3D3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;at least a day or=20
so.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D3D2&gt;Tom&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV& ;gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial =
size=3D3D3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;=20
&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT=20
face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;=20
&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&g t; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;=20
&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0=20
=
Transitional//EN"&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt; <BR>&gt;&lt;META=20
http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html;=20
=3D<BR>&gt;charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;META =
content=3D3D"MSHTML=20
6.00.2800.1400"=20
=
name=3D3DGENERATOR&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt; <BR>&gt;&lt;/HEA=
D&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;BODY=20
bgColor=3D3D#ffffff&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2&gt;Dale and=20
Cujo,&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT =
face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2&gt;Heres what I can tell you about=20
=
the=3D20<BR>&gt;46Ls:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt; <BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT=
=20
face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;=20
&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3DArial =
size=3D3D2&gt;I haven't=20
any ribbons to AB them =3D<BR>&gt;with. My=3D20<BR>&gt;experience=20
with&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT =
face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2&gt;Beyer M-160s was less than stellar so=20
I<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;am=3D20<BR>&gt;certainly=20
biased.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT =
face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2&gt;The information &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;FONT =
=3D<BR>&gt;face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2&gt;I=3D20<BR>&gt;got from Jon at Shiny Box is that the =
Lundahls make=20
the&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT =
face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2&gt;mics more clear from top to =3D<BR>&gt;bottom. I=20
know=3D20<BR>&gt;John Macy is &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2&gt;preferring the=20
=
=3D<BR>&gt;standard&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt; <BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT=20
face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2&gt;46s over his Royer 121s on e. =
=3D<BR>&gt;gtrs. I=20
am=3D20<BR>&gt;going to=20
hammer&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT =
face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2&gt;them tonight with some crunch guitars =3D<BR>&gt;for =
yours=20
and=3D20<BR>&gt;my=20
benefit.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT =
face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2&gt;I'll A-B them with a 57, 421 414 so =
you<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;have=20
some=3D20<BR>&gt;basis for=20
my&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT =
face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2&gt;comments. I'll gain match too =3D<BR>&gt;using the=20
=
same=3D20<BR>&gt;pre.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt; <BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT=
=20
face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;=20
&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3DArial =
size=3D3D2&gt;Maybe I'll=20
post a short mp3 too. =3D<BR>&gt;It's so=3D20<BR>&gt;subjective with =
all the=20
variables.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT =
face=3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D2&gt;I'll give you my gut feeling=20
=
=3D<BR>&gt;though.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt; <BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT=20
face=3D3DArial=20
=
size=3D3D2&gt;Tom&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&g t; <BR>&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT=20
face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;=20
=
&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;BLOCKQUOTE=3D20<BR >&gt;style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px;=20
PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =3D<BR>&gt;BORDER-LEFT: #000000 =
2px=20
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &lt;DIV&gt;"cujo"=20
&lt;&lt;A=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =3D<BR>&gt;href=3D3D"<A=20
=
href=3D'mailto:chris@nospamapplemanstudio.com">chris@nospamapplemanstudio=
'>mailto:chris@nospamapplemanstudio.com"&gt;chris@nospamapplemanstudio</A=
>=3D<BR>&gt;.com&lt;/A&gt;&gt;=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
wrote in message &lt;A=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =3D<BR>&gt;href=3D3D"<A=20
=
href=3D'news:4365146f$1@linux">news:4365146f$1@linux</A>...</DIV><BR><BR'=
>news:4365146f$1@linux"&gt;news:4365146f$1@linux&lt;/A&gt;...&lt;/DIV&gt;=
&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR</A>&gt;=3D<BR>&gt;I=20
saw a=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; pair of the SE ribbons at a dealer. =
&lt;BR&gt;They do=20
look really well =3D<BR>&gt;constructed,=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; and I =
guess they are=20
supposed to be&lt;BR&gt;a tad more airy than the=20
Royer.<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;They=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; aint super cheap though =
as are the=20
shiny..&lt;BR&gt;I really do want to =
know<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;about=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
the diff in the tranny of the Shiny box mics,&lt;BR&gt;I am thinking =
a=20
pair<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;of these=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; may fit the bill as =
room mics. Of=20
course you&lt;BR&gt;afiten get what you =
=3D<BR>&gt;pay=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
for&lt;BR&gt;I also want to know how they sound on a crunchy master=20
gain=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; marshall.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;I heard a clip =
of DJ's=20
gemini in action, how does the<BR>=3D<BR>&gt;5000=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =

compare?&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&g t; "DJ" =
&lt;&lt;A=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
=3D<BR>&gt;href=3D3D"<A=20
=
href=3D'mailto:animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net">animix_spam-this-ahole=
'>mailto:animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net"&gt;animix_spam-this-ahole</A=
>=3D<BR>&gt;_@animas.net&lt;/A&gt;&gt;=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
wrote:&lt;BR&gt;&gt;I can't wait to give one of these SE ribbons a =
try. I'm=20
=3D<BR>&gt;very=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; impressed with&lt;BR&gt;&gt;the =
SE stuff. We=20
just used a matched pair of =3D<BR>&gt;SE3's on=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
some guitar=20
overdubs.&lt;BR&gt;&gt;We compared them to a matched pair of=20
=3D<BR>&gt;Neumann KM=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; 184's and a pair of=20
AKG&lt;BR&gt;&gt;C460B's before we committed to them. =3D<BR>&gt;The =

SE3's=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; sound great. I think =
this&lt;BR&gt;&gt;company is=20
hitting some home =3D<BR>&gt;runs with=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; some high =
quality=20
products at very&lt;BR&gt;&gt;good=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
=
prices.&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&gt;D eej&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&gt; "Dale"=
=20
&lt;&lt;A=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =3D<BR>&gt;href=3D3D"<A=20
=
href=3D'mailto:dalebradleycello@yahoo.com">dalebradleycello@yahoo.com</A'=
>mailto:dalebradleycello@yahoo.com"&gt;dalebradleycello@yahoo.com&lt;/A</=
A>&gt;=3D<BR>&gt;&gt;=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
wrote in=20
=
=3D<BR>&gt;message&lt;BR&gt;&gt;news:4364187c$1@linux...&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
A=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; buncha questions about these "ShinyBox" mics I =
hear=20
tell=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; of....&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&a mp;gt;&gt; =
So how does=20
the ShinyBox sound compared =3D<BR>&gt;with=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Beyer =
M160 &amp;=20
Royer (both&lt;BR&gt;of&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; which I have used)? =
=3D<BR>&gt;Does=20
a $310=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; mic (46L) really outperform a=20
Royer?!?&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt; &gt;&gt; I just=20
=3D<BR>&gt;scanned=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; the shinybox.com, but didn't =
see much=20
description of=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
the&lt;BR&gt;&gt;practical&lt;BR&gt;& ;gt;&gt;=20
difference between the 46, 46C, &amp; =
=3D<BR>&gt;46L=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; except=20
about the transformers. How&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; are the spendier=20
ones=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; better?&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt;& amp;gt;&gt; =
I don't=20
suppose anyone has got one of =3D<BR>&gt;the new=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
SE=20
Electronics Ribbon mics&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; to report on? I have one =
of=20
=3D<BR>&gt;their tube=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; mics (SE 5000) which I like =
a=20
lot.&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt;& ;gt;&gt;=20
=3D<BR>&gt;thanks,&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=3D20 <BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
=
Dale&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt;& ;gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;&lt;BR& ;gt;&gt;&=
gt;=20
"John Macy" =3D<BR>&gt;&lt;&lt;A=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
=3D<BR>&gt;href=3D3D"<A=20
=
href=3D'mailto:spamlessjohn@johnmacy.com">spamlessjohn@johnmacy.com</A>&a=
mp;g'>mailto:spamlessjohn@johnmacy.com"&gt;spamlessjohn@johnmacy.com&lt;/=
A&gt;&amp;g</A>=3D<BR>&gt;t;=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
wrote:&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;Glad you like =
them, Tom.=20
=3D<BR>&gt;I think=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; they are&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&gt;a fantastic=20
value. I use my 46's over =3D<BR>&gt;my=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
Royers&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;all the time, especially on electric=20
=3D<BR>&gt;guitars. =3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; I&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;know =
Darren Rahn=20
for the group here got a =
=3D<BR>&gt;pair&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=3D20 <BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;also and is verry pleased, too. Even the=20
=3D<BR>&gt;unmatched,&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=3D20 <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;stock =
transformer=20
46's are pretty nice :)&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
=3D<BR>&gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=3D20 <BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;"Tom Bruhl" &lt;&lt;A=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; href=3D3D"<A=20
=
href=3D'mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>>=3D20'>mailto=
:arpegio@comcast.net"&gt;arpegio@comcast.net&lt;/A&gt;&gt;=3D20</A><BR>&g=
t;&nbsp;=20
wrote:&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; =3D<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Had =
a=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; project=20
that called for tenor sax, vocals&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;and a=20
=3D<BR>&gt;little egg=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; shakin'.&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Used 'em on=20
=3D<BR>&gt;everything=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; through the Precision=20
8&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;with really great=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
results.&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;The =
best words=20
to =3D<BR>&gt;describe=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; them are natural and not=20
hyped.&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;to remove the room=20
=3D<BR>&gt;coming=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; off the backside of the figure=20
8.&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Vocals didn't =
=3D<BR>&gt;need=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
compression. I was singing and watching&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
=3D<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;levels so=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; that made this =
possible. They=20
did seem slightly&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;compressed=20
sounding though. Even when the wave=20
=3D<BR>&gt;got&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=3D20<BR >&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;squared =
off in Paris=20
it didn't gack or even sound=20
=3D<BR>&gt;clipped.&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=3D20 <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;I =
rerecorded=20
those spots because they looked=20
=3D<BR>&gt;bad...&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=3D20 <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;Odd =
but kinda=20
cool. =3D3D20&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt;Vocals in the mix need lots of high end. Not a=20
problem=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; either.&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;It was =
a disco=20
thing with that sizzly =3D<BR>&gt;sound that=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; only =
a=20
condensor&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;should get. What I found was =
that=20
=3D<BR>&gt;these=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; things took Paris' =
eq=3D3D20&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;sweetly. The =3D<BR>&gt;esses didn't=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; go =
over the edge=20
and tone was smooth&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;as =3D<BR>&gt;silk. I=20
did=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; use La2a's across them at mixdown though. The =

eggs&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;recorded nicely =
and again=20
sounded natural. One on each =3D<BR>&gt;side of=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
the&lt;BR&gt;mic.&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;=3D3D&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;=3D3D20&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=3D 20 <BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;These are the first ribbons I've used =3D<BR>&gt;except=20
for=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; some Beyer M160s =
way&lt;BR&gt;=3D3D&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; =20
&gt;&gt;back.&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; =
=3D<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;These=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; are=20
floating my boat right now. I think they will rock =
on=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
brass&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; =3D3D&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;and=3D3D20&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; =
=3D<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;crunch=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
guitar. I'll find out about that when a 7 horn band =
comes=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
in&lt;BR&gt;=3D3D&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;soon.&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;They needed a =3D<BR>&gt;lot of=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; gain. I =
was afraid to=20
get any closer than=20
=3D<BR>&gt;about&lt;BR&gt;4"&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=3D20 <BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;=3D3D&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;from them.&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;Delicate =3D<BR>&gt;little=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; buggers you =
know. Of=20
course I used a popper=20
=3D<BR> &gt;stopper&lt;BR&gt;for&lt;BR&gt;&g t;&gt;=3D20 <BR>&gt;&nbsp; =

&gt;=3D3D&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;safety&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&gt;&gt;which=20
darkens =3D<BR>&gt;the sound a=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; bit=20
too.=3D3D20&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;At =
$700 or so=20
=3D<BR>&gt;for the=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; matched pair.I think this is =
quite a=20
bargain =3D3D&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; =
=3D<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;compared=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
to=3D3D20&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;the R121s etc. The Lundahls are=20
=3D<BR>&gt;supposed to=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; give them more=20
clarity&lt;BR&gt;=3D3D&lt;BR&gt;&gt;& ;gt; &gt;&gt;across the=20
=3D<BR>&gt;board.&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=3D20 <BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;Natural is what I=20
call them. Not a bad choice if your =
=3D<BR>&gt;looking=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; for=20
=3D3D&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;ribbons.&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=2 0
&gt;&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;Thanks to John =
Macy for=20
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=3D<BR>&gt;of=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
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&gt;&gt;Box&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
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great&lt;BR&gt;care&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt ;=20
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&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT=20
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=3D3D&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
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face=3D3D3DArial=20
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face=3D3D3DArial=20
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the=3D3D20&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;wave=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
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face=3D3D3DArial=20
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=3D3D&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;sound that=3D3D20&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;only =
a=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
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face=3D3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D3D2&gt;should get. What I found was that=20
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&gt;=3D3D&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
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=3D<BR>&gt;face=3D3D3DArial=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
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&gt;&gt;the=3D3D20&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;edge and tone=20
was=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
smooth&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;BR&am p;gt;&gt;&gt;=20
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face=3D3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D3D2&gt;as silk. I did use La2a's across=20
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at=3D3D20&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;mixdown though. =
The=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
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=3D<BR>&gt;face=3D3D3DArial=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
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face=3D3D3DArial=20
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=3D3D&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
&gt;&gt;except for=3D3D20&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;some Beyer =
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way=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
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face=3D3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D3D2&gt;These are floating my boat right=20
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&gt;&gt;soon.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&g t;&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
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face=3D3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D3D2&gt;They needed a lot of gain. I was=20
=3D<BR>&gt;=3D3D&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=3D20 <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;afraid =

to=3D3D20&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;get any closer than about =
=3D<BR>&gt;4"=20
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face=3D3D3DArial=20
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&gt;&gt;Of course=20
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face=3D3D3DArial=20
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&gt;&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&am p;lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
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face=3D3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt; =
&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=3D20<BR >&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt;&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;At $700 =
or so=20
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=
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20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt;&gt;face=3D3D3DArial size=3D3D3D2&gt;I think this is quite a =
bargain=20
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=
&gt;&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&am p;lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=3D20 <BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
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=
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more=20
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looking=20
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=
&gt;&gt;ribbons.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&am p;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=3D20 <BR>&gt;&=
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size=3D3D3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;=20
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size=3D3D3D2&gt;Thanks to John Macy for turning=20
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=3D<BR>&gt;=3D3D&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=3D20 <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;to =
them.=20
Jon,=3D3D20&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;the owner of =
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the&lt;BR&gt;&gt;buying=3D3D20&lt;BR&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;process. He =
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face=3D3D3DArial=20
size=3D3D3D2&gt;matching mics then matching=20
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&gt;&gt;transformers=20
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mics=3D20<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
=
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took him=3D3D20&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt; =
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day or =
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size=3D3D3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;=20
=3D<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
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Here's what I did on the mic shootout.

I set all mics 6" from center of speakers
for the Twin and 4" from the Rocktron.
2x12s in each setup. Two mics on each facing
center from very close to center. Sent all mics
through the Precision 8 pre and matched gain
by eye on the meters then later by eye in the
editor. One performance for each of four tracks.
Shure 57, Senn 421, AKG 414 ULS and Shiny Box 46L.
Used a Rocktron Taboo Twin for hi gain with a Guild
Strat/Jackson type with Seymour Duncans. Used a=20
'61 Jazz Master through a '82 tube Twin for jazz and blues.

Track 1. 57 Jazz
2. 421 Jazz
3. 414 Jazz
4 . 46L Jazz

5. 57 Blues
6. 421 Blues
7. 414 Blues
8. 46L Blues

9. 57 Hi gain Rhythm
10. 421 Hi gain Rhythm =20
11. 414 Hi gain Rhythm
12. 46L Hi gain Rhythm

13. 57 Higher gain Lead
14. 421 Higher gain Lead =20
15. 414 Higher gain Lead
16. 46L Higher gain Lead=20

The mic placement is obviously not right for all sounds and mics
in any of the scenarios. It is however consistent. You can make your
own decisions about sounds, placement, mic choice after listening.

Again, If you want to hear the shootout I have 192k mp3s of the whole =
thing.
They are Ogg Vorbis or .ogg . Winamp has no problem playing them.
The difference from mic to mic is quite obvious so a .wav is not needed.

I'll post my opinions after a few others have chimed in.
Glad to be of service,
Tom
=20



"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote in message =
news:43672bab@linux...
Okay I did the mic shoot out but the files are way too large to=20
post here. It's 6 Meg. 16 tracks in all. If you want 'em I can =
email=20
them to you unless you have another way. I don't really want to be=20
printing disks.
Tom

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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Here's what I did on the mic =
shootout.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I set all mics 6" from center of=20
speakers</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>for the Twin and 4" from the =
Rocktron.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2x12s in each setup.&nbsp; Two mics on =
each=20
facing</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>center from very close to center.&nbsp; =
Sent all=20
mics</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>through the Precision 8 pre and matched =

gain</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>by eye on the meters then later by eye =
in=20
the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>editor.&nbsp; One performance for each =
of four=20
tracks.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Shure 57, Senn 421, AKG 414 ULS and =
Shiny Box=20
46L.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Used a Rocktron Taboo Twin for&nbsp;hi=20
gain&nbsp;with a Guild</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Strat/Jackson type with Seymour =
Duncans.&nbsp;=20
</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Used a </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>'61 Jazz Master </FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>through a '82 tube Twin for jazz and blues.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Track 1.&nbsp; 57 Jazz</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2> &nbsp;2.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;421=20
Jazz</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2> &nbsp;3.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs p;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;414 Jazz</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2> &nbsp;4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp ;&nbsp;=20
..&nbsp;46L Jazz</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2> &nbsp;5.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
57&nbsp;=20
Blues</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2> &nbsp;6.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs p;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
421 Blues</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2> &nbsp;7.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs p;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;414 Blues</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2> &nbsp;8.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs p;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;46L Blues</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2> &nbsp;9.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs p;&nbsp; &nbsp;=20
57 Hi gain Rhythm</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2> 10.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb sp;421 Hi gain=20
Rhythm&nbsp;</FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>11.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 414 Hi =
gain=20
Rhythm</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>12.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 46L =
Hi gain=20
Rhythm</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> 13.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb sp; =
&nbsp;57=20
Higher gain <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Lead</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>14.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 421 Higher gain=20
Lead&nbsp;</FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>15.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 414 Higher =
gain=20
Lead</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>16.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 46L =
Higher gain=20
Lead</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The mic placement is obviously not right for all sounds and =
mics</DIV>
<DIV>in any of the scenarios.&nbsp; It is however consistent.&nbsp; You =
can make=20
your</DIV>
<DIV>own decisions about sounds, placement, mic choice after =
listening.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Again, If you want to hear the shootout I have 192k mp3s of the =
whole=20
thing.</DIV>
<DIV>They are Ogg Vorbis or .ogg .&nbsp; Winamp has no problem playing=20
them.</DIV>
<DIV>The difference from mic to mic is quite obvious so a .wav is not=20
needed.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I'll post my opinions after a few others have chimed in.</DIV>
<DIV>Glad to be of service,</DIV>
<DIV>Tom</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Tom Bruhl" &lt;<A=20
href=3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>&gt; wrote =
in message=20
<A href=3D"news:43672bab@linux">news:43672bab@linux</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Okay I did the mic shoot out but the =
files are=20
way too large to </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>post here.&nbsp; It's 6 Meg.&nbsp; 16 =
tracks in=20
all.&nbsp; If you want 'em I can email </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>them to you </FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>unless=20
you </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>have another way.&nbsp; I don't =
really want=20
to be </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>printing disks.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML >

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I hope this is it.

jon chaikin wrote:
> thanks john. that would be great. if you want to email it my email
> is: jc@nonstopsound.com otherwise i'll look for it here.
>
> thanks again.
>
> On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:18:12 -0500, John <no@no.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I think I have it. I'm holding a 4 page document and put it in my
>>copier and have it email it to me as pdf then I can post it. YEAH IT
>>DOES THAT ! wow
>>Then let me know if that is what you want. I bet it is.
>>John
>>
>>jon chaikin wrote:
>>
>>>thanks for the pointer. i've yet to find the one that was on the
>>>Ensoniq site which gave a step by step for using the aux sends to
>>>create a headphone mix, but i'll keep looking.
>>>
>>>thanks again.
>>>
>>>jon
>>>
>>>On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 19:05:02 -0400, John <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>www.kfocus.com/paris
>>>>
>>>>Look under Paris, _Setup, Queue Mixes
>>>>
>>>>jon chaikin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>i used to have a tutorial that showed how to setup a headphone mix
>>>>>using the external effects system. does anyone still have a copy?
>>>>>
>>>>>thanks
>>>>>
>>>>>jon
>>>
>>>
>

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T0YK
--------------000504000207000406070503--So how do you get Fleetwood Macs rhythm section isolated? Also which
Stevie Wonder song are you talking about? I have the CD Songs in the
Key of Life. I actually just bought it again after 15 years without the
album. Nicaguella is my fav. What vocal chops.

John

uptown jimmy wrote:
> I'm sorta anal-retentive, so I've been polishing my productions bits and
> pieces at a time as I track them and edit the parts, while continuing to
> learn the engineering and performance chops o' the trade as I go, as it
> were. I will probably never have a true "mix session" in the traditional
> sense of the term, as I'll have already tweaked the mixes countless times by
> the time all the tracking is done.
>
> I'm an artist, not a professional engineer. I think my engineering skills
> have gotten pretty good in the last few years, but it's in the service of my
> art, not that of a day-to-day business. That's probably a point I should
> have made a while ago.
>
> But in the final stages of things (which are coming up soon for this
> project), I'll do more of what I've been doing, which is isolate an
> instrument or two at a time and get things sounding just right. I can't
> afford a shit-load of nice outboard gear, and I play everything myself, so
> I've long since fallen into the habit of concentrating on a few instruments
> at a time.
>
> My buddy Swen is becoming a greater and greater presence in the studio and
> in my creative process, and we have mirrored setups in terms of basic gear,
> so we have the sweet stuff racked on 10-space SKB racks so that we can have
> 2 channels of 1176, 3 of the 1073, etc., all together at the same time, in
> the same place, for certain more intensive/collaborative tracking/mixing
> days.
>
> My basic philosophy is to get it sounding "right" as I go, with the obvious
> cleaning-up stuff right at the end. I don't want to find myself in the
> middle of a song production and not feel overwhelmed by its beauty. I refuse
> to be involved in anything that isn't just obviously beautiful. Luckily, we
> seem to have stumbled recently, at long last, onto just that. We'll see
> soon. But it's an old, old way of looking at this "recording" thing: mix it
> with the way you play it...make it sound the way you want as you
> go...commit, commit, commit...
>
> But really, it's like being a film-maker, in that there's an ever-increasing
> amount of stuff you can do in the edit suite to tweak and polish and
> rearrange what was filmed. But the great films revolve primarily around the
> actions of a relatively few actors and camera/light/direction types in a
> series of carefully prepared, highly intense moments. Sure the editing is
> crucial, but any attempt at film editing depends entirely upon the raw
> materials at hand, ie: the filmed performaces. So, I EQ and compress and
> affect going to tape, and then edit the part, and then pass it out to the EQ
> or compressor again, if necessary, to make it sit just right in the mix as
> it stands.
>
> As far as I'm concerned, the sound going to tape needs to be really, really
> inspiring AS IT IS RECORDED. And that requires really good gear, as well as
> the really amazing performaces that good gear sometimes inspires...
>
> I'll say it again: alot of unwitting, well-intentioned folk have been
> hoodwinked over that last few years into thinking that they can do it all
> "in the box". I have yet to see or hear the evdence that that is true.
>
> I am now regularly sending both analog and digital signals to my outboard
> gear. I refuse to jump through the Paris/UAD-1 hoops, and none of the native
> plugins sound remotely comparable to my outboard gear, so...
>
> Man, I'll tell you straight-up: you ain't played till you've played through
> really good gear. It makes all the difference. It just makes everything so
> much easier, in that "wow I can't believe I ever thought it could work any
> other way" kind of way.
>
> That was waaay too many words. Thanks to DC for the compliment, btw. It may
> end up in a song, but then I've got stacks of lyrical bits and pieces laying
> around.
>
> BTW, you can study any of those "Classic Albums" DVDs and in each case the
> engineer will inevitably just push up the faders on a copy of the original
> master tapes and say to the camera: "It just mixes itself, doesn't it?" It
> is astounding to hear, say, Fleetwood Mac's rhythm section isolated.
> Unfuckingbelievable. Or Stevie's drums on a song from "Key of Life"....good
> lord...it was played that way, you know?
>
> Jimmy
>
>
>
> "cujo" <chris@nospamapplemanstudio.com> wrote in message
> news:43668989$1@linux...
>
>>
>>So are you using any EQ at mixdown?
>>If so are you goin in to hardware?
>>
>>
>>
>>"uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>
>>>I have both. They call it the MP2EQ, or something like that, a single
>>>channel of each racked side by side. I have them patched seperately in my
>>>patch bay so I can use the EQ as a send from Paris.
>>>
>>>Look, I don't want to piss on the parade of anybody who can't afford the
>>>good stuff. I've been there myself, I know how it feels.
>>>
>>>But my experience with DAW plugins has been anything but pleasurable.
>
> I've
>
>>>been training my ear since I was four years old, at least as an
>
> audiophile,
>
>>>and my journey as a studio-rat has been slowed and frustrated no end by
>>>years of time wasted trying to get the sounds I know are possible to get,
>>>but without having the gear necessary to make those sounds happen. It
>
> took
>
>>>me years to realize that part of my problem was plugins. I consider them
>>
>>a
>>
>>>scam perpetrated on innocent musicians who don't know better.
>>>
>>>High-end outboard gear is expensive for a reason. And, in this case at
>>>least, you get what you pay for. It just sounds so fucking good. There's
>>
>>no
>>
>>>cloudiness, no endless tweaking, no lingering feeling of dissatisfaction,
>>
>>no
>>
>>>weird phasing sounds, no flatness; just sweet, clean, art-inducing
>>>rightness. Well worth the money.
>>>
>>>I mean, sure you can get yourself a $200.00 guitar and set about learning
>>
>>to
>>
>>>play it, try to make some art with it. But the moment you pick up a
>>>$1,000.00 guitar, you know the difference. It's infinitely easier to
>
> play,
>
>>>it sounds infinitely better, and it records infinitely better. It's just
>>>that simple.
>>>
>>>Jimmy
>>>
>>>
>>>"Pete Ruthenburg" <ruthenburg@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>news:436653c1$1@linux...
>>>
>>>>Hey Jimmy,
>>>> So do you have the Great River eq or the pre or both?If you
>>>>have the eq how do you like it;I'm sure its killer.
>>>>
>>>>Pete
>>>>
>>>>"uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>It doesn't.
>>>>>
>>>>>Paris EQs are usable in a pinch, which means I don't need them
>
> anymore.
>
>>>>>Cuz I'm the proud owner of a Great River 1073... :)
>>>>>
>>>>>Jimmy
>>>>>
>>>>>"Mike Audet" <mike@mikeF-SPAMaudet.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:43661314@linux...
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi Jimmy,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>How do you find the paris eq stacks up against the 1073 eq?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>All the best,
>>>>>>Mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It's weird, how many people are using native plugins.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I've not used the UAD-1, so I felt the need to pipe up with that
>>>
>>>caveat.
>>>
>>>>>>>But it is astounding how bad plugins sound, and how much time you
>>
>>can
>>
>>>>>spend
>>>>>
>>>>>>>trying to get them to sound good; but when you plug in an 1176 or
>>
>>a
>>
>>>1073
>>>
>>>>>>EQ
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>or a nice FX box (or even an RNC compressor), it takes about 10
>>>
>>>seconds
>>>
>>>>>>>before things just make more sense sonically. Outboard is still
>>>>>
>>>>>light-years
>>>>>
>>>>>>>ahead of plugins, in my somewhat informed opinion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Jimmy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Mike Audet" <mike@mikeF-SPAMaudet.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:4365825c$1@linux...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I agree with everything you just said about plugins. Exteral
>>>
>>>harware
>>>
>>>>>>just
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>blows the doors off virtual.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Mike
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I do not use plugins, and haven't for years. They do not sound
>>
>>as
>>
>>>>good
>>>>
>>>>>>as
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>high-quality outboard equipment, not on any level, and that's
>>>
>>>putting
>>>
>>>>>>it
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>very politely. I am shocked that companies like Waves make any
>>>
>>>money
>>>
>>>>>>at
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>all
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>selling those kinds of products.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Paris is amazing, but I use it's EQ sparingly at most.
>
> Ulitmately,
>
>>>>for
>>>>
>>>>>>>me,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>it's a glorified tape machine with an awesome built-in editing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>capability,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>plus some well-documented gain-staging "tips and tricks" that
>
> sound
>
>>>>>>>simply
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>delicious.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Jimmy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>news:43652386$1@linux...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I've found with software less is almost always more. I went
>>>
>>>through
>>>
>>>>>>my
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>plug
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>in craze phase.. ironically, I suspect phase and calculations
>>
>>are
>>
>>>>>what
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>muddied up the mix. I know that we as an industry are in
>
> trouble
>
>>>>>when
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>every
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>year, or less, we have to evaluate our tools and think we need
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>something
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>new. I'm all down with improvement, but if things are growing
>>>>>
>>>>>'that'
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>fast,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>then maybe we should have a look at what are we really using
>>
>>to
>>
>>>>>begin
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>with.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Change can't generally happen that quickly and be for the long
>>>
>>>term
>>>
>>>>>>>good.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Computers are a funny beast man.
>>>>>>>>>>AA
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>news:43651390@linux...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Ya know............Im sitting here listening to some
>
> *roughs*
>
>>>>of
>>>>
>>>>>>a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>tracking
>>>>>>>>>>>session I did Friday night. No compression, a very tiny bit
>>
>>of
>>
>>>>>>>>>subtractive
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>EQ, a tiny touch of NoLimit on the mix bus. That's it. The
>>
>>rest
>>
>>>>of
>>>>
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>story
>>>>>>>>>>>is using the Paris EQ makeup gain and the fader gain stages
>>
>>to
>>
>>>>get
>>>>
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>*mixphat thing going*.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>I swear guys.......this sounds better to my ears than all of
>>>
>>>the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>1,000,000
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>gobazzillion plugin options I have available when using the
>>
>>SX
>>
>>>>rig
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>during
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>mixdown.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>It's pretty minimalist stuff to begin with......acoustic
>
> rythym
>
>>>>>>>guitar,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>acoustic lead guitar, fiddle, electric bass and acoustic
>
> drum
>
>>>>>>>>>>>kit........but
>>>>>>>>>>>that seems to be all I do these days anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Sometimes less is truly more.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Deej
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>
>Try this.
starting with no effects at all, (inserts, aux, or master)start putting eds
comps (the standard one) on channel inserts. How many can you get? You should
be able to get 16. One on every channel.
If you can't get that, force Paris to open up a clean project.
If you don't have a Default ppj that Paris opens from (if you didn't save
one, you don't) just hit P (project window) and "ctrl N". If you have a default
project saved you'll have to go into your Paris folder on the C drive and
hide it(create a new folder and name it something else). If your running
Paris 3 this will be in the EMU/Paris Pro folder. If your running Paris 2.x
it will be in the ensoniq/Paris folder.
Once you open from a totally fresh project try opening 16 standard compressors.

Rod
"Mike Yanoska" <yanoska@cox.net> wrote:
>
>Rod, thanks for the tip.....but no, no other effects on any channel.
>
>Would any irregular "configuration" settings affect this? (overview cache,
>etc.)
>
>Puzzling............
>
>"Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@kc.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>Do you have any other eds effects on that card..on any channel, or even
>eds
>>reverbs? No Limit is a resource hog. if you have some other effects anywhere
>>in the submix you may be maxed out.
>>Rod
>>"Mike Yanoska" <yanoska@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>Tony,
>>>
>>>Sorry I wasn't a little more specific in my first post. Here is what
I
>>have:
>>>
>>>Single EDS card
>>>442
>>>C16
>>>3.0 software on XP Pro
>>>
>>>The track has no other effects activated....also no sends (internal or
>external).
>>>
>>>The odd thing is that all the other effects (compressor, delay, chorus,
>>etc.)
>>>can be initiated on the master buss....just not the noLIMIT plug.
>>>
>>>Let me know if I can provide any other info that would help. I have no
>>problem
>>>working with computers (I build Video, and some Audio, computers).
>>>
>>>Thanks again, Mike.
>>>
>>>
>>>"Tony Benson" <t o n y@s t a n d i n g h a m p t o n.c o m> wrote:
>>>>Mike,
>>>>
>>>>I'm assuming you have more than one EDS card? Is this right? The master
>>>buss
>>>>effects use card A's processing power. Make sure the submix assigned
to
>>>card
>>>>A isn't using very many send and /or insert EDS effects. If this doesn't
>>>
>>>>help, give us some more details on your set-up.
>>>>
>>>>Tony
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Mike Yanoska" <yanoska@cox.net> wrote in message news:43669bd4$1@linux...
>>>>>
>>>>> With no other effects being used....I get this error message when trying
>>>
>>>>> to
>>>>> use noLIMIT on the master bus: "An error occurred in creating insert.
>>>The
>>>>> effects resources are now maxed out. The specified effect can not be
>>
>>>>> created".
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there a configuration setting or change to the stockfx.ini file
that
>>>
>>>>> would
>>>>> eliminate this message and allow me to use noLIMIT on the master bus?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks in advance. Mike.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>Hello.

Well, there are three cosmeticly different PARIS bundle 3 systems.
Black with imbus screws, than black with cross(phillips) screws and blue.

BUT, how many revisions are under the hood?
Every board inside the MEC, I/O, ADAT, EDS, etc.. has some
PCB (board) revision, year of manufacture and the firmware (ROM chip).

I thought that we could make come research on how many revisions of
paris components and Firmware(ROM) revisions are there and which
ones are the newest.
ROM chips are easy to copy, so we can make some exchange.

That could be an excelent guide to answer "why some Paris configurations
are working for someone and for someone not", and why some configurations
doesn't work at all.

Here are some pictures and revisions of some paris parts....

I hope there will be a huge response for this topic.

Greetings to all!!

Suad Cokljat
Indigo Audio
















GLynn does this in the making of WHo's Next DVD
I suspect it is just a mult of remixed drums though and bass. ither that
or they tracked the verb and delay and commited as well.
But I do agree with much of what Jimmy said.
Altough, many valid artforms require working with the tools at hand.




John <no@no.com> wrote:
>So how do you get Fleetwood Macs rhythm section isolated? Also which
>Stevie Wonder song are you talking about? I have the CD Songs in the
>Key of Life. I actually just bought it again after 15 years without the

>album. Nicaguella is my fav. What vocal chops.
>
>John
>
>uptown jimmy wrote:
>> I'm sorta anal-retentive, so I've been polishing my productions bits and
>> pieces at a time as I track them and edit the parts, while continuing
to
>> learn the engineering and performance chops o' the trade as I go, as it
>> were. I will probably never have a true "mix session" in the traditional
>> sense of the term, as I'll have already tweaked the mixes countless times
by
>> the time all the tracking is done.
>>
>> I'm an artist, not a professional engineer. I think my engineering skills
>> have gotten pretty good in the last few years, but it's in the service
of my
>> art, not that of a day-to-day business. That's probably a point I should
>> have made a while ago.
>>
>> But in the final stages of things (which are coming up soon for this
>> project), I'll do more of what I've been doing, which is isolate an
>> instrument or two at a time and get things sounding just right. I can't
>> afford a shit-load of nice outboard gear, and I play everything myself,
so
>> I've long since fallen into the habit of concentrating on a few instruments
>> at a time.
>>
>> My buddy Swen is becoming a greater and greater presence in the studio
and
>> in my creative process, and we have mirrored setups in terms of basic
gear,
>> so we have the sweet stuff racked on 10-space SKB racks so that we can
have
>> 2 channels of 1176, 3 of the 1073, etc., all together at the same time,
in
>> the same place, for certain more intensive/collaborative tracking/mixing
>> days.
>>
>> My basic philosophy is to get it sounding "right" as I go, with the obvious
>> cleaning-up stuff right at the end. I don't want to find myself in the
>> middle of a song production and not feel overwhelmed by its beauty. I
refuse
>> to be involved in anything that isn't just obviously beautiful. Luckily,
we
>> seem to have stumbled recently, at long last, onto just that. We'll see
>> soon. But it's an old, old way of looking at this "recording" thing: mix
it
>> with the way you play it...make it sound the way you want as you
>> go...commit, commit, commit...
>>
>> But really, it's like being a film-maker, in that there's an ever-increasing
>> amount of stuff you can do in the edit suite to tweak and polish and
>> rearrange what was filmed. But the great films revolve primarily around
the
>> actions of a relatively few actors and camera/light/direction types in
a
>> series of carefully prepared, highly intense moments. Sure the editing
is
>> crucial, but any attempt at film editing depends entirely upon the raw
>> materials at hand, ie: the filmed performaces. So, I EQ and compress and
>> affect going to tape, and then edit the part, and then pass it out to
the EQ
>> or compressor again, if necessary, to make it sit just right in the mix
as
>> it stands.
>>
>> As far as I'm concerned, the sound going to tape needs to be really, really
>> inspiring AS IT IS RECORDED. And that requires really good gear, as well
as
>> the really amazing performaces that good gear sometimes inspires...
>>
>> I'll say it again: alot of unwitting, well-intentioned folk have been
>> hoodwinked over that last few years into thinking that they can do it
all
>> "in the box". I have yet to see or hear the evdence that that is true.
>>
>> I am now regularly sending both analog and digital signals to my outboard
>> gear. I refuse to jump through the Paris/UAD-1 hoops, and none of the
native
>> plugins sound remotely comparable to my outboard gear, so...
>>
>> Man, I'll tell you straight-up: you ain't played till you've played through
>> really good gear. It makes all the difference. It just makes everything
so
>> much easier, in that "wow I can't believe I ever thought it could work
any
>> other way" kind of way.
>>
>> That was waaay too many words. Thanks to DC for the compliment, btw. It
may
>> end up in a song, but then I've got stacks of lyrical bits and pieces
laying
>> around.
>>
>> BTW, you can study any of those "Classic Albums" DVDs and in each case
the
>> engineer will inevitably just push up the faders on a copy of the original
>> master tapes and say to the camera: "It just mixes itself, doesn't it?"
It
>> is astounding to hear, say, Fleetwood Mac's rhythm section isolated.
>> Unfuckingbelievable. Or Stevie's drums on a song from "Key of Life"....good
>> lord...it was played that way, you know?
>>
>> Jimmy
>>
>>
>>
>> "cujo" <chris@nospamapplemanstudio.com> wrote in message
>> news:43668989$1@linux...
>>
>>>
>>>So are you using any EQ at mixdown?
>>>If so are you goin in to hardware?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I have both. They call it the MP2EQ, or something like that, a single
>>>>channel of each racked side by side. I have them patched seperately in
my
>>>>patch bay so I can use the EQ as a send from Paris.
>>>>
>>>>Look, I don't want to piss on the parade of anybody who can't afford
the
>>>>good stuff. I've been there myself, I know how it feels.
>>>>
>>>>But my experience with DAW plugins has been anything but pleasurable.
>>
>> I've
>>
>>>>been training my ear since I was four years old, at least as an
>>
>> audiophile,
>>
>>>>and my journey as a studio-rat has been slowed and frustrated no end
by
>>>>years of time wasted trying to get the sounds I know are possible to
get,
>>>>but without having the gear necessary to make those sounds happen. It
>>
>> took
>>
>>>>me years to realize that part of my problem was plugins. I consider them
>>>
>>>a
>>>
>>>>scam perpetrated on innocent musicians who don't know better.
>>>>
>>>>High-end outboard gear is expensive for a reason. And, in this case at
>>>>least, you get what you pay for. It just sounds so fucking good. There's
>>>
>>>no
>>>
>>>>cloudiness, no endless tweaking, no lingering feeling of dissatisfaction,
>>>
>>>no
>>>
>>>>weird phasing sounds, no flatness; just sweet, clean, art-inducing
>>>>rightness. Well worth the money.
>>>>
>>>>I mean, sure you can get yourself a $200.00 guitar and set about learning
>>>
>>>to
>>>
>>>>play it, try to make some art with it. But the moment you pick up a
>>>>$1,000.00 guitar, you know the difference. It's infinitely easier to
>>
>> play,
>>
>>>>it sounds infinitely better, and it records infinitely better. It's just
>>>>that simple.
>>>>
>>>>Jimmy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Pete Ruthenburg" <ruthenburg@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:436653c1$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>>>Hey Jimmy,
>>>>> So do you have the Great River eq or the pre or both?If you
>>>>>have the eq how do you like it;I'm sure its killer.
>>>>>
>>>>>Pete
>>>>>
>>>>>"uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>It doesn't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Paris EQs are usable in a pinch, which means I don't need them
>>
>> anymore.
>>
>>>>>>Cuz I'm the proud owner of a Great River 1073... :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Jimmy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Mike Audet" <mike@mikeF-SPAMaudet.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:43661314@linux...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hi Jimmy,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>How do you find the paris eq stacks up against the 1073 eq?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>All the best,
>>>>>>>Mike
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>It's weird, how many people are using native plugins.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I've not used the UAD-1, so I felt the need to pipe up with that
>>>>
>>>>caveat.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>But it is astounding how bad plugins sound, and how much time you
>>>
>>>can
>>>
>>>>>>spend
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>trying to get them to sound good; but when you plug in an 1176 or
>>>
>>>a
>>>
>>>>1073
>>>>
>>>>>>>EQ
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>or a nice FX box (or even an RNC compressor), it takes about 10
>>>>
>>>>seconds
>>>>
>>>>>>>>before things just make more sense sonically. Outboard is still
>>>>>>
>>>>>>light-years
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>ahead of plugins, in my somewhat informed opinion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Jimmy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Mike Audet" <mike@mikeF-SPAMaudet.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>news:4365825c$1@linux...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I agree with everything you just said about plugins. Exteral
>>>>
>>>>harware
>>>>
>>>>>>>just
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>blows the doors off virtual.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Mike
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I do not use plugins, and haven't for years. They do not sound
>>>
>>>as
>>>
>>>>>good
>>>>>
>>>>>>>as
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>high-quality outboard equipment, not on any level, and that's
>>>>
>>>>putting
>>>>
>>>>>>>it
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>very politely. I am shocked that companies like Waves make any
>>>>
>>>>money
>>>>
>>>>>>>at
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>all
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>selling those kinds of products.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Paris is amazing, but I use it's EQ sparingly at most.
>>
>> Ulitmately,
>>
>>>>>for
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>me,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>it's a glorified tape machine with an awesome built-in editing
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>capability,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>plus some well-documented gain-staging "tips and tricks" that
>>
>> sound
>>
>>>>>>>>simply
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>delicious.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Jimmy
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>"Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>news:43652386$1@linux...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>I've found with software less is almost always more. I went
>>>>
>>>>through
>>>>
>>>>>>>my
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>plug
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>in craze phase.. ironically, I suspect phase and calculations
>>>
>>>are
>>>
>>>>>>what
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>muddied up the mix. I know that we as an industry are in
>>
>> trouble
>>
>>>>>>when
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>every
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>year, or less, we have to evaluate our tools and think we need
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>something
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>new. I'm all down with improvement, but if things are growing
>>>>>>
>>>>>>'that'
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>fast,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>then maybe we should have a look at what are we really using
>>>
>>>to
>>>
>>>>>>begin
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>with.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Change can't generally happen that quickly and be for the long
>>>>
>>>>term
>>>>
>>>>>>>>good.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Computers are a funny beast man.
>>>>>>>>>>>AA
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>news:43651390@linux...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Ya know............Im sitting here listening to some
>>
>> *roughs*
>>
>>>>>of
>>>>>
>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>tracking
>>>>>>>>>>>>session I did Friday night. No compression, a very tiny bit
>>>
>>>of
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>subtractive
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>EQ, a tiny touch of NoLimit on the mix bus. That's it. The
>>>
>>>rest
>>>
>>>>>of
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>story
>>>>>>>>>>>>is using the Paris EQ makeup gain and the fader gain stages
>>>
>>>to
>>>
>>>>>get
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>*mixphat thing going*.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>I swear guys.......this sounds better to my ears than all of
>>>>
>>>>the
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>1,000,000
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>gobazzillion plugin options I have available when using the
>>>
>>>SX
>>>
>>>>>rig
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>during
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>mixdown.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>It's pretty minimalist stuff to begin with......acoustic
>>
>> rythym
>>
>>>>>>>>guitar,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>acoustic lead guitar, fiddle, electric bass and acoustic
>>
>> drum
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>kit........but
>>>>>>>>>>>>that seems to be all I do these days anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Sometimes less is truly more.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Deej
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>I was referring to the "Classic Albums" DVDs. Very good buys, though some
are better than others.

Stevie is a personal hero, a majestic god-awful genius.

Jimmy

"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:43676327@linux...
> So how do you get Fleetwood Macs rhythm section isolated? Also which
> Stevie Wonder song are you talking about? I have the CD Songs in the
> Key of Life. I actually just bought it again after 15 years without the
> album. Nicaguella is my fav. What vocal chops.
>
> John
>
> uptown jimmy wrote:
> > I'm sorta anal-retentive, so I've been polishing my productions bits and
> > pieces at a time as I track them and edit the parts, while continuing to
> > learn the engineering and performance chops o' the trade as I go, as it
> > were. I will probably never have a true "mix session" in the traditional
> > sense of the term, as I'll have already tweaked the mixes countless
times by
> > the time all the tracking is done.
> >
> > I'm an artist, not a professional engineer. I think my engineering
skills
> > have gotten pretty good in the last few years, but it's in the service
of my
> > art, not that of a day-to-day business. That's probably a point I should
> > have made a while ago.
> >
> > But in the final stages of things (which are coming up soon for this
> > project), I'll do more of what I've been doing, which is isolate an
> > instrument or two at a time and get things sounding just right. I can't
> > afford a shit-load of nice outboard gear, and I play everything myself,
so
> > I've long since fallen into the habit of concentrating on a few
instruments
> > at a time.
> >
> > My buddy Swen is becoming a greater and greater presence in the studio
and
> > in my creative process, and we have mirrored setups in terms of basic
gear,
> > so we have the sweet stuff racked on 10-space SKB racks so that we can
have
> > 2 channels of 1176, 3 of the 1073, etc., all together at the same time,
in
> > the same place, for certain more intensive/collaborative tracking/mixing
> > days.
> >
> > My basic philosophy is to get it sounding "right" as I go, with the
obvious
> > cleaning-up stuff right at the end. I don't want to find myself in the
> > middle of a song production and not feel overwhelmed by its beauty. I
refuse
> > to be involved in anything that isn't just obviously beautiful. Luckily,
we
> > seem to have stumbled recently, at long last, onto just that. We'll see
> > soon. But it's an old, old way of looking at this "recording" thing: mix
it
> > with the way you play it...make it sound the way you want as you
> > go...commit, commit, commit...
> >
> > But really, it's like being a film-maker, in that there's an
ever-increasing
> > amount of stuff you can do in the edit suite to tweak and polish and
> > rearrange what was filmed. But the great films revolve primarily around
the
> > actions of a relatively few actors and camera/light/direction types in a
> > series of carefully prepared, highly intense moments. Sure the editing
is
> > crucial, but any attempt at film editing depends entirely upon the raw
> > materials at hand, ie: the filmed performaces. So, I EQ and compress and
> > affect going to tape, and then edit the part, and then pass it out to
the EQ
> > or compressor again, if necessary, to make it sit just right in the mix
as
> > it stands.
> >
> > As far as I'm concerned, the sound going to tape needs to be really,
really
> > inspiring AS IT IS RECORDED. And that requires really good gear, as well
as
> > the really amazing performaces that good gear sometimes inspires...
> >
> > I'll say it again: alot of unwitting, well-intentioned folk have been
> > hoodwinked over that last few years into thinking that they can do it
all
> > "in the box". I have yet to see or hear the evdence that that is true.
> >
> > I am now regularly sending both analog and digital signals to my
outboard
> > gear. I refuse to jump through the Paris/UAD-1 hoops, and none of the
native
> > plugins sound remotely comparable to my outboard gear, so...
> >
> > Man, I'll tell you straight-up: you ain't played till you've played
through
> > really good gear. It makes all the difference. It just makes everything
so
> > much easier, in that "wow I can't believe I ever thought it could work
any
> > other way" kind of way.
> >
> > That was waaay too many words. Thanks to DC for the compliment, btw. It
may
> > end up in a song, but then I've got stacks of lyrical bits and pieces
laying
> > around.
> >
> > BTW, you can study any of those "Classic Albums" DVDs and in each case
the
> > engineer will inevitably just push up the faders on a copy of the
original
> > master tapes and say to the camera: "It just mixes itself, doesn't it?"
It
> > is astounding to hear, say, Fleetwood Mac's rhythm section isolated.
> > Unfuckingbelievable. Or Stevie's drums on a song from "Key of
Life"....good
> > lord...it was played that way, you know?
> >
> > Jimmy
> >
> >
> >
> > "cujo" <chris@nospamapplemanstudio.com> wrote in message
> > news:43668989$1@linux...
> >
> >>
> >>So are you using any EQ at mixdown?
> >>If so are you goin in to hardware?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>"uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>>I have both. They call it the MP2EQ, or something like that, a single
> >>>channel of each racked side by side. I have them patched seperately in
my
> >>>patch bay so I can use the EQ as a send from Paris.
> >>>
> >>>Look, I don't want to piss on the parade of anybody who can't afford
the
> >>>good stuff. I've been there myself, I know how it feels.
> >>>
> >>>But my experience with DAW plugins has been anything but pleasurable.
> >
> > I've
> >
> >>>been training my ear since I was four years old, at least as an
> >
> > audiophile,
> >
> >>>and my journey as a studio-rat has been slowed and frustrated no end by
> >>>years of time wasted trying to get the sounds I know are possible to
get,
> >>>but without having the gear necessary to make those sounds happen. It
> >
> > took
> >
> >>>me years to realize that part of my problem was plugins. I consider
them
> >>
> >>a
> >>
> >>>scam perpetrated on innocent musicians who don't know better.
> >>>
> >>>High-end outboard gear is expensive for a reason. And, in this case at
> >>>least, you get what you pay for. It just sounds so fucking good.
There's
> >>
> >>no
> >>
> >>>cloudiness, no endless tweaking, no lingering feeling of
dissatisfaction,
> >>
> >>no
> >>
> >>>weird phasing sounds, no flatness; just sweet, clean, art-inducing
> >>>rightness. Well worth the money.
> >>>
> >>>I mean, sure you can get yourself a $200.00 guitar and set about
learning
> >>
> >>to
> >>
> >>>play it, try to make some art with it. But the moment you pick up a
> >>>$1,000.00 guitar, you know the difference. It's infinitely easier to
> >
> > play,
> >
> >>>it sounds infinitely better, and it records infinitely better. It's
just
> >>>that simple.
> >>>
> >>>Jimmy
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>"Pete Ruthenburg" <ruthenburg@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:436653c1$1@linux...
> >>>
> >>>>Hey Jimmy,
> >>>> So do you have the Great River eq or the pre or both?If you
> >>>>have the eq how do you like it;I'm sure its killer.
> >>>>
> >>>>Pete
> >>>>
> >>>>"uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>It doesn't.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Paris EQs are usable in a pinch, which means I don't need them
> >
> > anymore.
> >
> >>>>>Cuz I'm the proud owner of a Great River 1073... :)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Jimmy
> >>>>>
> >>>>>"Mike Audet" <mike@mikeF-SPAMaudet.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:43661314@linux...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Hi Jimmy,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>How do you find the paris eq stacks up against the 1073 eq?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>All the best,
> >>>>>>Mike
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>"uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>It's weird, how many people are using native plugins.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>I've not used the UAD-1, so I felt the need to pipe up with that
> >>>
> >>>caveat.
> >>>
> >>>>>>>But it is astounding how bad plugins sound, and how much time you
> >>
> >>can
> >>
> >>>>>spend
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>trying to get them to sound good; but when you plug in an 1176 or
> >>
> >>a
> >>
> >>>1073
> >>>
> >>>>>>EQ
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>or a nice FX box (or even an RNC compressor), it takes about 10
> >>>
> >>>seconds
> >>>
> >>>>>>>before things just make more sense sonically. Outboard is still
> >>>>>
> >>>>>light-years
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>ahead of plugins, in my somewhat informed opinion.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Jimmy
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>"Mike Audet" <mike@mikeF-SPAMaudet.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>news:4365825c$1@linux...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>I agree with everything you just said about plugins. Exteral
> >>>
> >>>harware
> >>>
> >>>>>>just
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>blows the doors off virtual.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Mike
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>"uptown jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>I do not use plugins, and haven't for years. They do not sound
> >>
> >>as
> >>
> >>>>good
> >>>>
> >>>>>>as
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>high-quality outboard equipment, not on any level, and that's
> >>>
> >>>putting
> >>>
> >>>>>>it
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>very politely. I am shocked that companies like Waves make any
> >>>
> >>>money
> >>>
> >>>>>>at
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>all
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>selling those kinds of products.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Paris is amazing, but I use it's EQ sparingly at most.
> >
> > Ulitmately,
> >
> >>>>for
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>me,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>it's a glorified tape machine with an awesome built-in editing
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>capability,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>plus some well-documented gain-staging "tips and tricks" that
> >
> > sound
> >
> >>>>>>>simply
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>delicious.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Jimmy
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>"Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>>news:43652386$1@linux...
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>I've found with software less is almost always more. I went
> >>>
> >>>through
> >>>
> >>>>>>my
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>plug
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>in craze phase.. ironically, I suspect phase and calculations
> >>
> >>are
> >>
> >>>>>what
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>muddied up the mix. I know that we as an industry are in
> >
> > trouble
> >
> >>>>>when
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>every
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>year, or less, we have to evaluate our tools and think we need
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>something
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>new. I'm all down with improvement, but if things are growing
> >>>>>
> >>>>>'that'
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>fast,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>then maybe we should have a look at what are we really using
> >>
> >>to
> >>
> >>>>>begin
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>with.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Change can't generally happen that quickly and be for the long
> >>>
> >>>term
> >>>
> >>>>>>>good.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Computers are a funny beast man.
> >>>>>>>>>>AA
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>>>news:43651390@linux...
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>Ya know............Im sitting here listening to some
> >
> > *roughs*
> >
> >>>>of
> >>>>
> >>>>>>a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>tracking
> >>>>>>>>>>>session I did Friday night. No compression, a very tiny bit
> >>
> >>of
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>subtractive
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>EQ, a tiny touch of NoLimit on the mix bus. That's it. The
> >>
> >>rest
> >>
> >>>>of
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>the
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>story
> >>>>>>>>>>>is using the Paris EQ makeup gain and the fader gain stages
> >>
> >>to
> >>
> >>>>get
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>the
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>*mixphat thing going*.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>I swear guys.......this sounds better to my ears than all of
> >>>
> >>>the
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>1,000,000
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>gobazzillion plugin options I have available when using the
> >>
> >>SX
> >>
> >>>>rig
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>>>during
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>mixdown.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>It's pretty minimalist stuff to begin with......acoustic
> >
> > rythym
> >
> >>>>>>>guitar,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>acoustic lead guitar, fiddle, electric bass and acoustic
> >
> > drum
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>>kit........but
> >>>>>>>>>>>that seems to be all I do these days anyway.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>Sometimes less is truly more.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>Deej
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >
> >Rod,

Tried your suggestion. Opened clean project with no effects whatsoever.
Tried loading compressor on each channel and only could get 6 loaded before
I got the "maxed out" error message.

I'm convinced I have something set wrong. What is your configuration setting?

Thanks again, Mike.Tom,

If you want, you can email them to me and I'll put them on my web site so
anyone can go download them. I've got extra space and bandwidth right now,
so it's no big deal. Let me know.

Email me here: tony@mercysakes.com

Tony


"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote in message news:43672bab@linux...
Okay I did the mic shoot out but the files are way too large to
post here. It's 6 Meg. 16 tracks in all. If you want 'em I can email
them to you unless you have another way. I don't really want to be
printing disks.
Tom


"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote in message news:4365791b@linux...
Cujo,
I know what you're saying about the hi-gain sounds. The
414 is always abrassive here. I have been a 57 lover from
the getgo but am always fighting to reproduce what's coming from
the amp in the control room.

If the 121s can be murky maybe that will be true with the Shiny Box
also. I can say they accept paris high end eq very gracefully. Not
like a 57 or a 414.

The jury is in session as we speak...
Tom

"cujo" <chris@nospamapplemanstudio.com> wrote in message
news:436568a1$1@linux...


Cool, one thing I really harp on wiht bands about guitars is less is
more.
So many great guitar bands (Led Zep, The Who, zz Top, Hendix, and even
more
modern stuff like The Smiths, or the Clash) did not use that JCM800 type
marshall sound but often used cleaner sounds and less wall of guitar
overdubs
for sure than say Foo Fighters or something of that nature. so it seems
that
many of the LDC's or even 57's can sound pretty abrasive with them, but
these
High Gain amos can sound cool for sure, the ribbon may be just the
trick.,I
know the 121s do ok for this, but I do think they sound at tad murky
too.


"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>Dale and Cujo,
>Heres what I can tell you about the 46Ls:
>
>I haven't any ribbons to AB them with. My experience with
>Beyer M-160s was less than stellar so I am certainly biased.
>The information I got from Jon at Shiny Box is that the Lundahls make =
>the
>mics more clear from top to bottom. I know John Macy is preferring the
=
>standard
>46s over his Royer 121s on e. gtrs. I am going to hammer
>them tonight with some crunch guitars for yours and my benefit.
>I'll A-B them with a 57, 421 414 so you have some basis for my
>comments. I'll gain match too using the same pre.
>
>Maybe I'll post a short mp3 too. It's so subjective with all the =
>variables.
>I'll give you my gut feeling though.
>Tom
>
> "cujo" <chris@nospamapplemanstudio.com> wrote in message =
>news:4365146f$1@linux...
>
>
> I saw a pair of the SE ribbons at a dealer.=20
> They do look really well constructed, and I guess they are supposed
to
=
>be
> a tad more airy than the Royer. They aint super cheap though as are =
>the shiny..
> I really do want to know about the diff in the tranny of the Shiny
box
=
>mics,
> I am thinking a pair of these may fit the bill as room mics. Of
course
=
>you
> afiten get what you pay for
> I also want to know how they sound on a crunchy master gain marshall.
>
> I heard a clip of DJ's gemini in action, how does the 5000 compare?
>
>
> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
> >I can't wait to give one of these SE ribbons a try. I'm very =
>impressed with
> >the SE stuff. We just used a matched pair of SE3's on some guitar =
>overdubs.
> >We compared them to a matched pair of Neumann KM 184's and a pair of
=
>AKG
> >C460B's before we committed to them. The SE3's sound great. I think
=
>this
> >company is hitting some home runs with some high quality products at
=
>very
> >good prices.
> >
> >Deej
> >
> >"Dale" <dalebradleycello@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:4364187c$1@linux...
> >>
> >> A buncha questions about these "ShinyBox" mics I hear tell of....
> >>
> >> So how does the ShinyBox sound compared with Beyer M160 & Royer =
>(both
> of
> >> which I have used)? Does a $310 mic (46L) really outperform a =
>Royer?!?
> >>
> >> I just scanned the shinybox.com, but didn't see much description
of
=
>the
> >practical
> >> difference between the 46, 46C, & 46L except about the =
>transformers. How
> >> are the spendier ones better?
> >>
> >> I don't suppose anyone has got one of the new SE Electronics
Ribbon
=
>mics
> >> to report on? I have one of their tube mics (SE 5000) which I like
=
>a lot.
> >>
> >> thanks,
> >> Dale
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> "John Macy" <spamlessjohn@johnmacy.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >Glad you like them, Tom. I think they are
> >> >a fantastic value. I use my 46's over my Royers
> >> >all the time, especially on electric guitars. I
> >> >know Darren Rahn for the group here got a pair
> >> >also and is verry pleased, too. Even the unmatched,
> >> >stock transformer 46's are pretty nice :)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>Had a project that called for tenor sax, vocals
> >> >>and a little egg shakin'.
> >> >>
> >> >>Used 'em on everything through the Precision 8
> >> >>with really great results.
> >> >>
> >> >>The best words to describe them are natural and not hyped.
> >> >>to remove the room coming off the backside of the figure 8.
> >> >>Vocals didn't need compression. I was singing and watching
> >> >>levels so that made this possible. They did seem slightly
> >> >>compressed sounding though. Even when the wave got
> >> >>squared off in Paris it didn't gack or even sound clipped.
> >> >>I rerecorded those spots because they looked bad...
> >> >>Odd but kinda cool. =3D20
> >> >>
> >> >>Vocals in the mix need lots of high end. Not a problem either.
> >> >>It was a disco thing with that sizzly sound that only a
condensor
> >> >>should get. What I found was that these things took Paris' =
>eq=3D20
> >> >>sweetly. The esses didn't go over the edge and tone was smooth
> >> >>as silk. I did use La2a's across them at mixdown though. The =
>eggs
> >> >>recorded nicely and again sounded natural. One on each side of
=
>the
> mic.
> >> >=3D
> >> >>=3D20
> >> >>
> >> >>These are the first ribbons I've used except for some Beyer
M160s
=
>way
> =3D
> >> >>back.
> >> >>These are floating my boat right now. I think they will rock on
=
>brass
> >> =3D
> >> >>and=3D20
> >> >>crunch guitar. I'll find out about that when a 7 horn band
comes
=
>in
> =3D
> >> >>soon.
> >> >>They needed a lot of gain. I was afraid to get any closer than
=
>about
> 4"
> >> >=3D
> >> >>from them.
> >> >>Delicate little buggers you know. Of course I used a popper =
>stopper
> for
> >> >=3D
> >> >>safety
> >> >>which darkens the sound a bit too.=3D20
> >> >>
> >> >>At $700 or so for the matched pair.I think this is quite a =
>bargain =3D
> >> >>compared to=3D20
> >> >>the R121s etc. The Lundahls are supposed to give them more =
>clarity
> =3D
> >> >>across the board.
> >> >>Natural is what I call them. Not a bad choice if your looking =
>for =3D
> >> >>ribbons.
> >> >>
> >> >>Thanks to John Macy for turning us on to them. Jon, the owner of
=
>Shiny
> >> =3D
> >> >>Box
> >> >>was very helpful throughout the buying process. He also took =
>great
> care
> >> >=3D
> >> >>in first
> >> >>matching mics then matching transformers then matching the mics
=
>=3D
> >> >>w/transformers.
> >> >>Painstaking I would say. I know it took him at least a day or =
>so.
> >> >>Tom
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> >> >><HTML><HEAD>
> >> >><META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D
> >> >>charset=3D3Diso-8859-1">
> >> >><META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3D3DGENERATOR>
> >> >><STYLE></STYLE>
> >> >></HEAD>
> >> >><BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Had a project that called =
>for tenor
> =3D
> >> >>sax,=3D20
> >> >>vocals</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>and a little egg =
>shakin'.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Used 'em on everything =
>through the
> =3D
> >> >>Precision=3D20
> >> >>8</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>with really great =
>results.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>The best words to describe
=
>=3D
> >> >>them are natural=3D20
> >> >>and not hyped.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Made the sax sound just
like
=
>the =3D
> >> >>sax. Had to=3D20
> >> >>be fairly close</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>to remove the room coming =
>off the =3D
> >> >>backside of the=3D20
> >> >>figure 8.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Vocals didn't need =3D
> >> >>compression. I was=3D20
> >> >>singing and watching</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>levels so that made this
=3D
> >> >>possible. They did=3D20
> >> >>seem slightly</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>compressed sounding though.
=
>Even =3D
> >> >>when the=3D20
> >> >>wave got</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>squared off in Paris it =
>didn't gack
> or
> >> >=3D
> >> >>even sound=3D20
> >> >>clipped.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>I rerecorded those spots =
>because they
> >> =3D
> >> >>looked=3D20
> >> >>bad...</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Odd but kinda cool. =
></FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Vocals in the mix need lots
=
>of high
> =3D
> >> >>end. Not=3D20
> >> >>a problem either.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>It was a disco thing with =
>that sizzly
> >> =3D
> >> >>sound that=3D20
> >> >>only a condensor</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>should get. What I found
was
=
>that these
> >> >=3D
> >> >>things took=3D20
> >> >>Paris' eq </FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>sweetly. The esses didn't
=
>go over
> =3D
> >> >>the=3D20
> >> >>edge and tone was smooth</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>as silk. I did use La2a's
=
>across =3D
> >> >>them at=3D20
> >> >>mixdown though. The eggs</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>recorded nicely and again =
>sounded =3D
> >> >>natural. =3D20
> >> >>One on each side of the mic. </FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>These are the first ribbons
=
>I've used
> >> =3D
> >> >>except for=3D20
> >> >>some Beyer M160s way back.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>These are floating my boat
=
>right =3D
> >> >>now. I think=3D20
> >> >>they will rock on brass and </FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>crunch guitar. I'll find =
>out =3D
> >> >>about=3D20
> >> >></FONT><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>that when a 7 horn band =
>comes in=3D20
> >> >>soon.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>They needed a lot of gain.
=
>I was =3D
> >> >>afraid to=3D20
> >> >>get any closer than about 4" from them.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Delicate little buggers you
=
>know.=20
> =3D
> >> >>Of course I=3D20
> >> >>used a popper stopper for safety</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>which darkens the sound a =
>bit too.
> =3D
> >> >></FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>At $700 or so for the =
>matched =3D
> >> >>pair.</FONT><FONT=3D20
> >> >>face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>I think this is quite a bargain =
>compared to =3D
> >> >></FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>the R121s etc. The
Lundahls
=
>=3D
> >> >></FONT><FONT=3D20
> >> >>face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>are supposed to give them more clarity
=
>across
> >the=3D20
> >> >>board.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Natural is what I call
them.
=
> =3D
> >> >></FONT><FONT=3D20
> >> >>face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Not a bad choice if your looking for =
>=3D
> >> >>ribbons.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Thanks to John Macy for =
>turning us
> on
> >> =3D
> >> >>to them. Jon,=3D20
> >> >>the owner of Shiny Box</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>was very helpful throughout
=
>the
> >buying=3D20
> >> >>process. He also took great care in first</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>matching mics then matching
=
>=3D
> >> >>transformers then=3D20
> >> >>matching the mics w/transformers.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Painstaking I would say. I
=
>know =3D
> >> >>it took him=3D20
> >> >>at least a day or so.</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
> >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> >> >><
Re: wrong owl [message #58775 is a reply to message #58774] Wed, 05 October 2005 11:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deej [1] is currently offline  Deej [1]   UNITED STATES
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
Senior Member
DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>
</DIV></BODY></HTML>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><HTML><HEAD>
><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR>
><STYLE></STYLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dale and Cujo,</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Heres what I can tell you about the=20
>46Ls:</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I haven't any ribbons to AB them =
>with. My=20
>experience with</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Beyer M-160s was less than stellar so
I
=
>am=20
>certainly biased.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The information </FONT><FONT =
>face=3DArial size=3D2>I=20
>got from Jon at Shiny Box is that the Lundahls make the</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>mics more clear from top to =
>bottom. I know=20
>John Macy is </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>preferring the =
>standard</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>46s over his Royer 121s on e. =
>gtrs. I am=20
>going to hammer</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>them tonight with some crunch guitars
=
>for yours and=20
>my benefit.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'll A-B them with a 57, 421 414 so
you
=
>have some=20
>basis for my</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>comments. I'll gain match too =
>using the same=20
>pre.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Maybe I'll post a short mp3 too. =
>It's so=20
>subjective with all the variables.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'll give
Baby Screech Owl [message #58776 is a reply to message #58774] Wed, 05 October 2005 11:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike ClMike Claytor is currently offline  Mike ClMike Claytor
Messages: 52
Registered: July 2005
Member
you my gut feeling =
>though.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><BLOCKQUOTE=20
>style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> <DIV>"cujo" <<A=20
> =
>href=3D"mailto:chris@nospamapplemanstudio.com">chris@nospamapplemanstudio=
>.com</A>>=20
> wrote in message <A=20
> =
>href=3D"news:4365146f$1@linux">news:4365146f$1@linux</A>...</DIV><BR><BR>=
>I saw a=20
> pair of the SE ribbons at a dealer. <BR>They do look really well =
>constructed,=20
> and I guess they are supposed to be<BR>a tad more airy than the
Royer.
=
>They=20
> aint super cheap though as are the shiny..<BR>I really do want to
know
=
>about=20
> the diff in the tranny of the Shiny box mics,<BR>I am thinking a pair
=
>of these=20
> may fit the bill as room mics. Of course you<BR>afiten get what you =
>pay=20
> for<BR>I also want to know how they sound on a crunchy master gain=20
> marshall.<BR><BR>I heard a clip of DJ's gemini in action, how does
the
=
>5000=20
> compare?<BR><BR><BR>"DJ" <<A=20
> =
>href=3D"mailto:animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net">animix_spam-this-ahole=
>_@animas.net</A>>=20
> wrote:<BR>>I can't wait to give one of these SE ribbons a try. I'm =
>very=20
> impressed with<BR>>the SE stuff. We just used a matched pair of =
>SE3's on=20
> some guitar overdubs.<BR>>We compared them to a matched pair of =
>Neumann KM=20
> 184's and a pair of AKG<BR>>C460B's before we committed to them. =
>The SE3's=20
> sound great. I think this<BR>>company is hitting some home =
>runs with=20
> some high quality products at very<BR>>good=20
> prices.<BR>><BR>>Deej<BR>><BR>>"Dale" <<A=20
> =
>href=3D"mailto:dalebradleycello@yahoo.com">dalebradleycello@yahoo.com</A>=
>>=20
> wrote in =
>message<BR>>news:4364187c$1@linux...<BR>>><BR>>> A=20
> buncha questions about these "ShinyBox" mics I hear tell=20
> of....<BR>>><BR>>> So how does the ShinyBox sound compared =
>with=20
> Beyer M160 & Royer (both<BR>of<BR>>> which I have used)? =
>Does a $310=20
> mic (46L) really outperform a Royer?!?<BR>>><BR>>> I just =
>scanned=20
> the shinybox.com, but didn't see much description of=20
> the<BR>>practical<BR>>> difference between the 46, 46C, & =
>46L=20
> except about the transformers. How<BR>>> are the spendier ones=20
> better?<BR>>><BR>>> I don't suppose anyone has got one of =
>the new=20
> SE Electronics Ribbon mics<BR>>> to report on? I have one of =
>their tube=20
> mics (SE 5000) which I like a lot.<BR>>><BR>>> =
>thanks,<BR>>>=20
> Dale<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> "John Macy" =
><<A=20
> =
>href=3D"mailto:spamlessjohn@johnmacy.com">spamlessjohn@johnmacy.com</A>&g=
>t;=20
> wrote:<BR>>> ><BR>>> >Glad you like them, Tom. =
>I think=20
> they are<BR>>> >a fantastic value. I use my 46's over =
>my=20
> Royers<BR>>> >all the time, especially on electric =
>guitars. =20
> I<BR>>> >know Darren Rahn for the group here got a =
>pair<BR>>>=20
> >also and is verry pleased, too. Even the =
>unmatched,<BR>>>=20
> >stock transformer 46's are pretty nice :)<BR>>> =
>><BR>>>=20
> ><BR>>> >"Tom Bruhl" <<A=20
> href=3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>>=20
> wrote:<BR>>> >><BR>>> >><BR>>> =
>>>Had a=20
> project that called for tenor sax, vocals<BR>>> >>and a =
>little egg=20
> shakin'.<BR>>> >><BR>>> >>Used 'em on =
>everything=20
> through the Precision 8<BR>>> >>with really great=20
> results.<BR>>> >><BR>>> >>The best words to =
>describe=20
> them are natural and not hyped.<BR>>> >>to remove the room =
>coming=20
> off the backside of the figure 8.<BR>>> >>Vocals didn't =
>need=20
> compression. I was singing and watching<BR>>> =
>>>levels so=20
> that made this possible. They did seem slightly<BR>>>=20
> >>compressed sounding though. Even when the wave =
>got<BR>>>=20
> >>squared off in Paris it didn't gack or even sound =
>clipped.<BR>>>=20
> >>I rerecorded those spots because they looked =
>bad...<BR>>>=20
> >>Odd but kinda cool. =3D20<BR>>> >><BR>>>=20
> >>Vocals in the mix need lots of high end. Not a problem=20
> either.<BR>>> >>It was a disco thing with that sizzly =
>sound that=20
> only a condensor<BR>>> >>should get. What I found was that =
>these=20
> things took Paris' eq=3D20<BR>>> >>sweetly. The =
>esses didn't=20
> go over the edge and tone was smooth<BR>>> >>as =
>silk. I did=20
> use La2a's across them at mixdown though. The eggs<BR>>>=20
> >>recorded nicely and again sounded natural. One on each =
>side of=20
> the<BR>mic.<BR>>> >=3D<BR>>> >>=3D20<BR>>>=20
> >><BR>>> >>These are the first ribbons I've used =
>except for=20
> some Beyer M160s way<BR>=3D<BR>>> >>back.<BR>>> =
>>>These=20
> are floating my boat right now. I think they will rock on=20
> brass<BR>>> =3D<BR>>> >>and=3D20<BR>>> =
>>>crunch=20
> guitar. I'll find out about that when a 7 horn band comes=20
> in<BR>=3D<BR>>> >>soon.<BR>>> >>They needed a =
>lot of=20
> gain. I was afraid to get any closer than =
>about<BR>4"<BR>>>=20
> >=3D<BR>>> >>from them.<BR>>> >>Delicate =
>little=20
> buggers you know. Of course I used a popper =
>stopper<BR>for<BR>>>=20
> >=3D<BR>>> >>safety<BR>>> >>which darkens =
>the sound a=20
> bit too.=3D20<BR>>> >><BR>>> >>At $700 or so =
>for the=20
> matched pair.I think this is quite a bargain =3D<BR>>> =
>>>compared=20
> to=3D20<BR>>> >>the R121s etc. The Lundahls are =
>supposed to=20
> give them more clarity<BR>=3D<BR>>> >>across the =
>board.<BR>>>=20
> >>Natural is what I call them. Not a bad choice if your =
>looking=20
> for =3D<BR>>> >>ribbons.<BR>>> >><BR>>>=20
> >>Thanks to John Macy for turning us on to them. Jon, the owner =
>of=20
> Shiny<BR>>> =3D<BR>>> >>Box<BR>>> >>was =
>very=20
> helpful throughout the buying process. He also took=20
> great<BR>care<BR>>> >=3D<BR>>> >>in =
>first<BR>>>=20
> >>matching mics then matching transformers then matching the =
>mics=20
> =3D<BR>>> >>w/transformers.<BR>>> =
>>>Painstaking I would=20
> say. I know it took him at least a day or so.<BR>>>=20
> >>Tom<BR>>> >><BR>>> >><BR>>>=20
> >><BR>>> >><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD =
>HTML 4.0=20
> Transitional//EN"><BR>>> =
>>><HTML><HEAD><BR>>>=20
> >><META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =
>=3D<BR>>>=20
> >>charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"><BR>>> >><META=20
> content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3D3DGENERATOR><BR>>> =
>
> >><STYLE></STYLE><BR>>>=20
> >></HEAD><BR>>> >><BODY=20
> bgColor=3D3D#ffffff><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =
>face=3D3DArial=20
> size=3D3D2>Had a project that called for tenor<BR>=3D<BR>>>=20
> >>sax,=3D20<BR>>>=20
> >>vocals</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>and a little =
>egg=20
> shakin'.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =
>>><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV><BR>>>=20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Used 'em on =
>everything=20
> through the<BR>=3D<BR>>> >>Precision=3D20<BR>>>=20
> >>8</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =
>>><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>with really great=20
> results.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =
>>><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV><BR>>>=20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>The best =
>words to=20
> describe =3D<BR>>> >>them are natural=3D20<BR>>> =
>>>and not=20
> hyped.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =
>>><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Made the sax sound just like the =
>=3D<BR>>>=20
> >>sax. Had to=3D20<BR>>> >>be fairly=20
> close</FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =
>
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>to remove the room coming off the =
>=3D<BR>>>=20
> >>backside of the=3D20<BR>>> >>figure=20
> 8.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Vocals didn't need =3D<BR>>>=20
> >>compression. I was=3D20<BR>>> >>singing and=20
> watching</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =
>>><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>levels so that made this =3D<BR>>>=20
> >>possible. They did=3D20<BR>>> >>seem=20
> slightly</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =
>>><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>compressed sounding though. Even =
>=3D<BR>>>=20
> >>when the=3D20<BR>>> >>wave=20
> got</FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>squared off in Paris it didn't =
>gack<BR>or<BR>>>=20
> >=3D<BR>>> >>even sound=3D20<BR>>>=20
> >>clipped.</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>I rerecorded =
>those spots=20
> because they<BR>>> =3D<BR>>> =
>>>looked=3D20<BR>>>=20
> >>bad...</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Odd but kinda =
>cool. =20
> </FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =
>face=3D3DArial=20
> size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV><BR>>> =
>>><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Vocals in the mix need lots of =
>high<BR>=3D<BR>>>=20
> >>end. Not=3D20<BR>>> >>a problem=20
> either.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =
>>><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>It was a disco thing with that =
>sizzly<BR>>>=20
> =3D<BR>>> >>sound that=3D20<BR>>> >>only a=20
> condensor</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =
>>><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>should get. What I found was that =
>these<BR>>>=20
> >=3D<BR>>> >>things took=3D20<BR>>> =
>>>Paris' eq=20
> </FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =
>face=3D3DArial=20
> size=3D3D2>sweetly. The esses didn't go =
>over<BR>=3D<BR>>>=20
> >>the=3D20<BR>>> >>edge and tone was=20
> smooth</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =
>>><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>as silk. I did use La2a's across =
>=3D<BR>>>=20
> >>them at=3D20<BR>>> >>mixdown though. The=20
> eggs</FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>recorded nicely and again sounded =
>=3D<BR>>>=20
> >>natural. =3D20<BR>>> >>One on each side of the =
>mic. =20
> </FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =
>face=3D3DArial=20
> size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV><BR>>> =
>>><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>These are the first ribbons I've =
>used<BR>>>=20
> =3D<BR>>> >>except for=3D20<BR>>> >>some Beyer =
>M160s way=20
> back.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =
>
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>These are floating my boat right =
>=3D<BR>>>=20
> >>now. I think=3D20<BR>>> >>they will rock on =
>brass and=20
> </FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =
>face=3D3DArial=20
> size=3D3D2>crunch guitar. I'll find out =3D<BR>>>=20
> >>about=3D20<BR>>> >></FONT><FONT =
>face=3D3DArial=20
> size=3D3D2>that when a 7 horn band comes in=3D20<BR>>>=20
> >>soon.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =
>>><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>They needed a lot of gain. I was =
>=3D<BR>>>=20
> >>afraid to=3D20<BR>>> >>get any closer than about =
>4" from=20
> them.</FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT =
>
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Delicate little buggers you know. =
><BR>=3D<BR>>>=20
> >>Of course I=3D20<BR>>> >>used a popper stopper for =
>
> safety</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =
>>><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>which darkens the sound a bit =
>too.<BR>=3D<BR>>>=20
> >></FONT></DIV><BR>>> =
>>><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV><BR>>>=20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>At $700 or so =
>for the=20
> matched =3D<BR>>> =
>>>pair.</FONT><FONT=3D20<BR>>>=20
> >>face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>I think this is quite a bargain =
>compared to=20
> =3D<BR>>> >></FONT></DIV><BR>>>=20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>the R121s =
>etc. The=20
> Lundahls =3D<BR>>> =
>>></FONT><FONT=3D20<BR>>>=20
> >>face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>are supposed to give them more =
>clarity=20
> across<BR>>the=3D20<BR>>>=20
> >>board.</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Natural is =
>what I call=20
> them. =3D<BR>>> =
>>></FONT><FONT=3D20<BR>>>=20
> >>face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Not a bad choice if your looking =
>for=20
> =3D<BR>>> >>ribbons.</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> =
>
> </DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial=20
> size=3D3D2>Thanks to John Macy for turning us<BR>on<BR>>> =
>=3D<BR>>>=20
> >>to them. Jon,=3D20<BR>>> >>the owner of Shiny=20
> Box</FONT></DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>was very helpful throughout=20
> the<BR>>buying=3D20<BR>>> >>process. He also took =
>great=20
> care in first</FONT></DIV><BR>>> =
>>><DIV><FONT=20
> face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>matching mics then matching =
>=3D<BR>>>=20
> >>transformers then=3D20<BR>>> >>matching the mics=20
> w/transformers.</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Painstaking I =
>would=20
> say. I know =3D<BR>>> >>it took him=3D20<BR>>> =
>>>at=20
> least a day or so.</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial=20
> size=3D3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV><BR>>>=20
> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> =
>
> </DIV><BR>>> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial=20
> size=3D3D2></FONT> =
></DIV></BODY></HTML><BR>>>=20
> >><BR>>> >><BR>>>=20
>><BR>><BR>><BR>></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
>
>You might want to try AIM to zap the files over.

James

"Tony Benson" <tony@standinghampton.com> wrote:
>Tom,
>
>If you want, you can email them to me and I'll put them on my web site so

>anyone can go download them. I've got extra space and bandwidth right now,

>so it's no big deal. Let me know.
>
> Email me here: tony@mercysakes.com
>
>Tony
>
>
>"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote in message news:43672bab@linux...
>Okay I did the mic shoot out but the files are way too large to
>post here. It's 6 Meg. 16 tracks in all. If you want 'em I can email
>them to you unless you have another way. I don't really want to be
>printing disks.
>Tom
>
>
> "Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote in message news:4365791b@linux...
> Cujo,
> I know what you're saying about the hi-gain sounds. The
> 414 is always abrassive here. I have been a 57 lover from
> the getgo but am always fighting to reproduce what's coming from
> the amp in the control room.
>
> If the 121s can be murky maybe that will be true with the Shiny Box
> also. I can say they accept paris high end eq very gracefully. Not
> like a 57 or a 414.
>
> The jury is in session as we speak...
> Tom
>
> "cujo" <chris@nospamapplemanstudio.com> wrote in message
>news:436568a1$1@linux...
>
>
> Cool, one thing I really harp on wiht bands about guitars is less is

>more.
> So many great guitar bands (Led Zep, The Who, zz Top, Hendix, and even

>more
> modern stuff like The Smiths, or the Clash) did not use that JCM800
type
> marshall sound but often used cleaner sounds and less wall of guitar

>overdubs
> for sure than say Foo Fighters or something of that nature. so it seems

>that
> many of the LDC's or even 57's can sound pretty abrasive with them,
but
>these
> High Gain amos can sound cool for sure, the ribbon may be just the
>trick.,I
> know the 121s do ok for this, but I do think they sound at tad murky

>too.
>
>
> "Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >Dale and Cujo,
> >Heres what I can tell you about the 46Ls:
> >
> >I haven't any ribbons to AB them with. My experience with
> >Beyer M-160s was less than stellar so I am certainly biased.
> >The information I got from Jon at Shiny Box is that the Lundahls make
=
> >the
> >mics more clear from top to bottom. I know John Macy is preferri
Re: Anyone want a little owl? [message #58777 is a reply to message #58773] Wed, 05 October 2005 11:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deej [1] is currently offline  Deej [1]   UNITED STATES
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
Senior Member
ng
the
> =
> >standard
> >46s over his Royer 121s on e. gtrs. I am going to hammer
> >them tonight with some crunch guitars for yours and my benefit.
> >I'll A-B them with a 57, 421 414 so you have some basis for my
> >comments. I'll gain match too using the same pre.
> >
> >Maybe I'll post a short mp3 too. It's so subjective with all the =
> >variables.
> >I'll give you my gut feeling though.
> >Tom
> >
> > "cujo" <chris@nospamapplemanstudio.com> wrote in message =
> >news:4365146f$1@linux...
> >
> >
> > I saw a pair of the SE ribbons at a dealer.=20
> > They do look really well constructed, and I guess they are supposed

>to
> =
> >be
> > a tad more airy than the Royer. They aint super cheap though as are
=
> >the shiny..
> > I really do
Re: Baby Screech Owl [message #58778 is a reply to message #58776] Wed, 05 October 2005 11:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deej [1] is currently offline  Deej [1]   UNITED STATES
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
Senior Member
want to know about the diff in the tranny of the Shiny

>box
> =
> >mics,
> > I am thinking a pair of these may fit the bill as room mics. Of
>course
> =
> >you
> > afiten get what you pay for
> > I also want to know how they sound on a crunchy master gain marshall.
> >
> > I heard a clip of DJ's gemini in action, how does the 5000 compare?
> >
Re: Baby Screech Owl [message #58779 is a reply to message #58778] Wed, 05 October 2005 11:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike ClMike Claytor is currently offline  Mike ClMike Claytor
Messages: 52
Registered: July 2005
Member
;
> >
> > "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
> > >I can't wait to give one of these SE ribbons a try. I'm very =
> >impressed with
> > >the SE stuff. We just used a matched pair of SE3's on some guitar
=
> >overdubs.
> > >We compared them to a matched pair of Neumann KM 184's and a pair
of
> =
> >AKG
> > >C460B's before we committed to them. The SE3's sound great. I think
> =
> >this
> > >company is hitting some home runs with some high quality products
at
> =
> >very
> > >good prices.
> > >
> &
Re: Anyone want a little owl? [message #58780 is a reply to message #58777] Wed, 05 October 2005 11:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
uptown jimmy is currently offline  uptown jimmy   UNITED STATES
Messages: 441
Registered: September 2005
Senior Member
gt; >Deej
> > >
> > >"Dale" <dalebradleycello@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > >news:4364187c$1@linux...
> > >>
> > >> A buncha questions about these "ShinyBox" mics I hear tell of....
> > >>
> > >> So how does the ShinyBox sound compared with Beyer M160 & Royer
=
> >(both
> > of
> > >> which I have used)? Does a $310 mic (46L) really outperform a
=
> >Royer?!?
> > >>
> > >> I just scanned the shinybox.com, but didn't see much description

>of
> =
> >the
> > >practical
> > >> difference between the 46, 46C, & 46L except about the =
> >transformers. How
> > >> are the spendier ones better?
> > >>
> > >> I don't suppose anyone has got one of the new SE Electronics
>Ribbon
> =
> >mics
> > >> to report on? I have one of their tube mics (SE 5000) which I
like
> =
> >a lot.
> > >>
> > >> thanks,
> > >> Dale
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> "John Macy" <spamlessjohn@johnmacy.com> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >Glad you like them, Tom. I think they are
> > >> >a fantastic value. I use my 46's over my Royers
> > >> >all the time, especially on electric guitars. I
> > >> >know Darren Rahn for the group here got a pair
> > >> >also and is verry pleased, too. Even the unmatched,
> > >> >stock transformer 46's are pretty nice :)
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@
Re: Anyone want a little owl? [message #58781 is a reply to message #58780] Wed, 05 October 2005 12:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deej [1] is currently offline  Deej [1]   UNITED STATES
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
Senior Member
comcast.net> wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>Had a project that called for tenor sax, vocals
> > >> >>and a little egg shakin'.
> > >> >>
> > >> >>Used 'em on everything through the Precision 8
> > >> >>with really great results.
> > >> >>
> > >> >>The best words to describe them are natural and not hyped.
> > >> >>to remove the room coming off the backside of the figure 8.
> > >> >>Vocals didn't need compression. I was singing and watching
> > >> >>levels so that made this possible. They did seem slightly
> > >> >>compressed sounding though. Even when the wave got
> > >> >>squared off in Paris it didn't gack or even sound clipped.
> > >> >>I rerecorded those spots because they looked bad...
> > >> >>Odd but kinda cool. =3D20
> > >> >>
> > >> >>Vocals in the mix need lots of high end. Not a problem either.
> > >> >>It was a disco thing with that sizzly sound that only a
>condensor
> > >> >>should get. What I found was that these things took Paris' =
> >eq=3D20
> > >> >>sweetly. The esses didn't go over the edge and tone was smooth
> > >> >>as silk. I did use La2a's across them at mixdown though. The
=
> >eggs
> > >> >>recorded nicely and again sounded natural. One on each side
of
>=
> >the
> > mic.
> > >> >=3D
> > >> >>=3D20
> > >> >>
> > >> >>These are the first ribbons I've used except for some Beyer

>M160s
> =
> >way
> > =3D
> > >> >>back.
> > >> >>These are floating my boat right now. I think they will rock
on
> =
> >brass
> > >> =3D
> > >> >>and=3D20
> > >> >>crunch guitar. I'll find out about that when a 7 horn band

>comes
> =
> >in
> > =3D
> > >> >>soon.
> > >> >>They needed a lot of gain. I was afraid to get any closer than

>=
> >about
> > 4"
> > >> >=3D
> > >> >>from them.
> > >> >>Delicate little buggers you know. Of course I used a popper
=
> >stopper
> > for
&
Re: Anyone want a little owl? [message #58783 is a reply to message #58781] Wed, 05 October 2005 12:21 Go to previous message
uptown jimmy is currently offline  uptown jimmy   UNITED STATES
Messages: 441
Registered: September 2005
Senior Member
br /> > > >> >>At $700 or so for the matched pair.I think this is quite a =
> >bargain =3D
> > >> >>compared to=3D20
> > >> >>the R121s etc. The Lundahls are supposed to give them more
=
> >clarity
> > =3D
> > >> >>across the board.
> > >> >>Natural is what I call them. Not a bad choice if your looking
=
> >for =3D
> > >> >>ribbons.
> > >> >>
> > >> >>Thanks to John Macy for turning us on to them. Jon, the owner
of
> =
> >Shiny
> > >> =3D
> > >> >>Box
> > >> >>was very helpful throughout the buying process. He also took
=
> >great
> > care
> > >> >=3D
> > >> >>in first
> > >> >>matching mics then matching transformers then matching the mics

>=
> >=3D
> > >> >>w/transformers.
> > >> >>Painstaking I would say. I know it took him at least a day
or =
> >so.
> > >> >>Tom
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> > >> >><HTML><HEAD>
> > >> >><META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D
> > >> >>charset=3D3Diso-8859-1">
> > >> >><META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3D3DGENERATOR>
> > >> >><STYLE></STYLE>
> > >> >></HEAD>
> > >> >><BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff>
> > >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Had a project that called
=
> >for tenor
> > =3D
> > >> >>sax,=3D20
> > >> >>vocals</FONT></DIV>
> > >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>and a little egg =
> >shakin'.</FONT></DIV>
> > >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> > >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Used 'em on everything
=
> >through the
> > =3D
> > >> >>Precision=3D20
> > >> >>8</FONT></DIV>
> > >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>with really great =
> >results.</FONT></DIV>
> > >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> > >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>The best words to describe

>=
> >=3D
> > >> >>them are natural=3D20
> > >> >>and not hyped.</FONT></DIV>
> > >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Made the sax sound just

>like
> =
> >the =3D
> > >> >>sax. Had to=3D20
> > >> >>be fairly close</FONT></DIV>
> > >> >><DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>to remove the room coming
=
> >off the =3D
> > >> >>backside of the=3D20
>
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