Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » DO NOT BUY A BEHRINGER BCF2000...EVIL!!!! EVIL!!!!!
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| Re: DO NOT BUY A BEHRINGER BCF2000...EVIL!!!! EVIL!!!!! [message #54798 is a reply to message #54797] |
Wed, 22 June 2005 07:55   |
![Deej [3] is currently offline](/theme/PARIS_Forum_Template/images/offline.png "Deej [3] is currently offline")
Deej [3]
Messages: 181
Registered: June 2005
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Senior Member |
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>> >> *energy* there that they have felt in places like Jerusalem,
Katmandhu,
> >> >> Mecca and other locations which are considered to be religious
> >> >destinations.
> >> >> In 1973, it was just a deserted beach with a little store owned by
> a
> >> >Zapotec
> >> >> Indian named Ramon Aguilar Villalobos and this exended family, two
> of
> >> >which
> >> >> were his in-laws, Manuel and Maria who basically founded this small
> >> >village
> >> >> back in the early 20th century and were very old. I spent a good
part
> >> of
> >> >my
> >> >> life in this place and lived with this family during those times
from
> >> 1973
> >> >> until 1990. Unfortunately, this place is nothing like it used to be
> and
> >> >now
> >> >> even has websites dedicated to it, but I guess that's part of the
story
> >> >> about thie place.
> >> >> I am going to post a link to this place so that you can see it. You
> may
> >> >have
> >> >> been there or know people who have. There is more to this story but
> I
> >> have
> >> >> work to do today so I will stop now and continue later when I have
> the
> >> >time.
> >> >> This story actually does lead somewhere that is relevant to this
> >> >> conversation. Sorry it has been so long but you have asked me a
> >question
> >> >> that is valid, but not easily answered, so I'll continue later if
you
> >> are
> >> >> interested. Though I haven't been there for a while, this was my
home
> >> and
> >> >is
> >> >> still my second home-
> >> >>
> >> >> I know a lot of the people in these pictures. I watched them grow up
> >and
> >> >> taught a few of them how to swim and catch fish. the beautiful young
> >> >woman,
> >> >> Claudia is the
> >> >> niece of my friend Ramon. The two people, John and Maria were guests
> at
> >> my
> >> >> home in Austin after one of my trips to Zipolite and we watched the
> >events
> >> >> unfold at Tienamen Square on television. They were having some bad
> drug
> >> >> problems even then. They are both kind, intelligent victims of the
> >social
> >> >> experiment that is
> >> >> happening there.
> >> >>
> >> >> http://www.greatvavavoom.com/stories/storyReader$56
> >> >>
> >> >> This link is also descriptive of how this place has evolved and
what
> >> the
> >> >> place was like the last time I
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| Re: DO NOT BUY A BEHRINGER BCF2000...EVIL!!!! EVIL!!!!! [message #54799 is a reply to message #54798] |
Wed, 22 June 2005 09:21 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
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Senior Member |
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was there.
> >> >>
> >> >> http://community-2.webtv.net/ivanjay/IVANJSNAVELYHOMEPORT/
> >> >>
> >> >> more to come......
> >> >>
> >> >> Regards,
> >> >>
> >> >> Doug
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> "derek" <derekvonkrogh@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:42d45df1@linux...
> >> >> >
> >> >> > maybe im missing the irony or some linguistic fineprint,
> >> >> > but as far as im concerned, doug, no i dont understand you.
> >> >> > reading the stereotype BS you spread, im frankly shocked,
> >> >> > thats pretty much all there is to it. i definetly dont recognize
> you.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > maybe its because im a european hypocrite sitting on my ass or
> >> >something.
> >> >> > cause thats the way we are, we "euros", right?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > *shakes head in disbelief*
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> >> >> > >Yes I do. Unfortunately, we apparently understand each other.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >Regards,
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >DJ
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >"derek" <derekvonkrogh@gmx.net> wrote in message
> >> >news:42d45332$1@linux...
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> you know how i meant it.
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> whatever.
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> >> >> > >> >It makes me sad too Derek. If the governments of Europe would
> >learn
> >> >> from
> >> >> > >> the
> >> >> > >> >mistakes of the past, it would make me less sad.
> >> >> > >> >
> >> >> > >> >
> >> >> > >> >"derek" <derekvonkrogh@gmx.net> wrote in message
> >> >> news:42d436c1$1@linux...
> >> >> > >> >>
> >> >> > >> >> doug,
> >> >> > >> >>
> >> >> > >> >>
> >> >> > >> >> your fuck
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| Re: DO NOT BUY A BEHRINGER BCF2000...EVIL!!!! EVIL!!!!! [message #54801 is a reply to message #54800] |
Wed, 22 June 2005 11:09 |
EK Sound
Messages: 939
Registered: June 2005
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Senior Member |
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gt; the
> >> >> > >> >> >> case. Dictatorships, yeah, free societies, nah.
> >> >> > >> >> >>
> >> >> > >> >> >> Ya know, as a side thought, for awhile there, I was
really
> >> >> > >> >> >> starting to feel like we made a mistake by going into
> >Iraq...
> >> >> > >> >> >> that we were hornswaggled, as they say - conned by the
> >Iraqi's
> >> >> > >> >> >> who are NOW in power, and who had their own agenda
against
> >> >> > >> >> >> Saddam. Now, with these latest bombings, I'm back to
being
> >> >> > >> >> >> all about retribution, since massive force is the only
thing
> >> >> > >> >> >> these extremists seem to understand - or if they don't
> >> >> > >> >> >> understand it, at least we'll lower their numbers & limit
> >their
> >> >> > >> >> >> capabilities by that method. So I'm now thinking that a
> good
> >> >> > >> >> >> position would be: for every terrorist attack that occurs
> >> >> > >> >> >> against us or one of our allies, we should nuke an
Islamic
> >> >city.
> >> >> > >> >> >> One bomb - done. Next? Oh you want to bomb another
embassy?
> >> OK,
> >> >> > >> >> >> fine, there goes another Islamic city... bigger bomb this
> >time.
> >> >> > >> >> >> Trust me, that kind of shit wouldn't last too long before
> we
> >> >> > >> >> >> had peace on earth & goodwill towards all men for a good
> >long
> >> >> > >> >> >> time.
> >> >> > >> >> >>
> >> >> > >> >> >> Neil
> >> >> > >> >> >>
> >> >> > >> >> >>
> >> >> > >> >> >>
> >> >> > >> >> >> Neil
> >> >> > >> >> >>
> >> >> > >> >> >> "Mike Audet" <mike@mike......com> wrote:
> >> >> > >> >> >> >
> >> >> > >> >> >> >Hi Mr. Simplicity,
> >> >> > >> >> >> >
> >> >> > >> >> >> >Unfortunately, Iraq is very much about oil for the US -
> big
> >> US
> >> >> > oil
> >> >> > >> >> >companies.
> >> >> > >> >> >> > And, leaving Iraqi oil in the ground, or burning it in
> >bombed
> >> >> > >> >pipelines
> >> >> > >> >> >> >is exactly what they want to do. This whole war was
about
> >> >> > >> >destabilizing
> >> >> > >> >> >> >the Middle East so that oil prices would rise and make
> >> >billions
> >> >> > for
> >> >> > >> >> >George's
> >> >> > >> >> >> >friends, screwing everyone else in the process.
> >> >> > >> >> >> >
> >> >> > >> >> >> >Osama has publicly said that his mission is to bankrupt
> the
> >> US
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > >> >same
> >> >> > >> >> >> way
> >> >> > >> >> >> >that he feels he bankrupted the USSR in Afghanistan as
> >payback
> >> >> > for
> >> >> > >> >> >Israeli/US
> >> >> > >> >> >> >aggression in Lebanon in the 1980s. I'm not defending
> him
> >> or
> >> >> his
> >> >> > >> >agenda
> >> >> > >> >> >> >AT ALL, but we need to look at our enemies clearly - and
> >our
> >> >> > >so-called
> >> >> > >> >> >friends
> >> >> > >> >> >> >- if we're going to make good decisions.
> >> >> > >> >> >> >
> >> >> > >> >> >> >Just like Osama, Bush and his friends want to bankrupt
> the
> >> US
> >> >> > >> >government
> >> >> > >> >> >> >in several ways, too: they want to give as much money
> as
> >> >> possible
> >> >> > >> to
> >> >> > >> >> >their
> >> >> >
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| Re: DO NOT BUY A BEHRINGER BCF2000...EVIL!!!! EVIL!!!!! [message #54802 is a reply to message #54798] |
Wed, 22 June 2005 11:15 |
erlilo
Messages: 405
Registered: June 2005
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Senior Member |
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>> >> >> >corporate friends through reconstruction projects and
> >military
> >> >> > >> >contracts,
> >> >> > >> >> >> >they want to dismantle, as much as possible, what little
> >> >social
> >> >> > >> >> >safety-net
> >> >> > >> >> >> >the US has, and they want to bleed the American people
> >> >directly
> >> >> > >with
> >> >> > >> >> high
> >> >> > >> >> >> >gas and oil prices.
> >> >> > >> >> >> >
> >> >> > >> >> >> >The best way to end social spending and bring the US
back
> >> to
> >> >the
> >> >> > >early
> >> >> > >> >> >1900s
> >> >> > >> >> >> >economically (which seems to be part of the conservative
> >> >> ideology)
> >> >> > >> is
> >> >> > >> >> to
> >> >> > >> >> >> >saddle the government with so much debt that the public
> >simply
> >> >> > >can't
> >> >> > >> >> >afford
> >> >> > >> >> >> >social programs anymore. He's intentionally trying to
> >> >bankrupt
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > >> US
> >> >> > >> >> >government
> >> >> > >> >> >> >to further entrench the power of his rich friends, and
> he's
> >> >> doing
> >> >> > >> a
> >> >> > >> >great
> >> >> > >> >> >> >job.
> >> >> > >> >> >> >
> >> >> > >> >> >> >There are two things that most so-called conservatives
> >don't
> >> >> seem
> >> >> > >> to
> >> >> > >> >> >consider.
> >> >> > >> >> >> > One, if you don't redistribute a certain amount of
wealth
> >> >> through
> >> >> > >> >> >taxation,
> >> >> > >> >> >> >it gets so concentrated that the economy collapses and
> >> >nobodies
> >> >> > >wealth
> >> >> > >> >> is
> >> >> > >> >> >> >worth anything anymore. Second, cutting taxes shrinks
> the
> >> >> economy.
> >> >> > >> >> Why?
> >> >> > >> >> >> > Because individuals, especially rich ones, don't spend
> >100%
> >> >of
> >> >> > >every
> >> >> > >> >> >dollar
> >> >> > >> >> >> >they earn - they save some of it. Governments generally
> >spend
> >> >> > >every
> >> >> > >> >> red
> >> >> > >> >> >> >cent they bring in. So, when George cuts taxes for his
> >rich
> >> >> > >friends,
> >> >> > >> >> >the
> >> >> > >> >> >> >US economy actually shrinks by the amount that people
save
> >> and
> >> >> > >> >government
> >> >> > >> >> >> >would have spent, further contributing the bankrupting
> of
> >> >> America.
> >> >> > >> >
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| Re: DO NOT BUY A BEHRINGER BCF2000...EVIL!!!! EVIL!!!!! [message #54816 is a reply to message #54800] |
Wed, 22 June 2005 18:44 |
uptown jimmy
Messages: 441
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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ic
> >don't
> >> >> seem
> >> >> > >> to
> >> >> > >> >> care
> >> >> > >> >> >> >if
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> others in some other country miles away suffer, so
you
> >> have
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > >> tell
> >> >> > >> >> >them
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> that Iraq pose a threat. See, if GWB hadn't lied
about
> >> that
> >> >> > I
> >> >> > >> >*almost*
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>would
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> have been on his side... though I still couldn't
have
> >> >> stomached
> >> >> > >> >that
> >> >> > >> >> >> >as
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> he was, to my mind, clearly in it for the oil. I
think
> >> if
> >> >the
> >> >> > >U.S.
> >> >> > >> >> had
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>waited
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> a little longer, and put a little more pressue on the
> >U.N.
> >> >> that
> >> >> > >> >> >eventually
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> the U.N. would have gotten more behind it. I think
GWB
> >> & co
> >> >
> >> >> > >> >actually
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>*didn't
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> want* the U.N. behind them, because by going alone
they
> >> >could
> >> >> > be
> >> >> > >> in
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>charge,
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> and that would give them more power politically as
the
> >> >> country
> >> >> > >> was
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>restructured.
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> That's my beleif anyhow. I felt that it was only a
> >matter
> >> >of
> >> >> > >time
> >> >> > >> >> >before
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> enough countries voted for it in the U.N. They could
> >only
> >> >> > >> >> >procrastinate
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>for
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> so long. It was big news and the public was watching.
> A
> >> >whole
> >> >> > >swag
> >> >> > >> >> of
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>countries
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> weren't saying "no" but were saying "wait just a
little
> >> >> more".
> >> >> > >> Sure
> >> >> > >> >> it
> >> >> > >> >> >> >was
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> getting tiresome, but I think holding out would have
> >been
> >> >> worth
> >> >> > >> it.
> >> >> > >> >> >The
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>way
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> it was handled it came across too much as if GWB was
> >just
> >> >> hell
> >> >> > >> bent
> >> >> > >> >> on
> >> >> > >> >> >> >war
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> for oil, which I think is true. Holding out a little
> >longer
> >> >> > >would
> >> >> > >> >> have
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>made
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> a big difference to the opinions of many IMO, whether
> >the
> >> >> U.N.
> >> >> > >> >> >actually
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>ended
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> up behind it or not.
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> Anyway, the whole thing is screwed.
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> This London thing is screwed.
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> And I forgot my lunch this morning. DOH!
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> And now we've got a political thread on the main
group.
> >> DOH
> >> >> > >DOH!!
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> Cheers,
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> Kim.
> >> >> > >> >> &
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| Re: DO NOT BUY A BEHRINGER BCF2000...EVIL!!!! EVIL!!!!! [message #54817 is a reply to message #54816] |
Wed, 22 June 2005 19:11 |
wmarkwilson
Messages: 114
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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gt;> >>
> >> >> > >> >> >> >>
> >> >> > >> >> >> >
> >> >> > >> >> >>
> >> >> > >> >> >
> >> >> > >> >> >
> >> >> > >> >>
> >> >> > >> >
> >> >> > >> >
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>...............and furthermore, I think I am getting the impression from your
posts that you believe that I thought all of these Europpeans wer bad people
somehow. Tjhat is not the case. I am as disappointed in the Europeans as you
obviously are at the US. We can disagree. If you think that somehow I am
going to go along with dropping a nuke somewhere then you are mistaken. My
post to Neil was meant as a rather grim joke, but these are grim times. What
would you have us do if we have credible evidence that Tehran has their
finger on the button that will send a nuke to Berlin? Do you want us to wait
while the UN argues about it and Berlin burns to the ground? I assure you
that this is a possible scenario.....maybe not Berlin, but somewhere in the
neighborhood..........and kissing the asses of this *non--stereotypical
humaniod being with no cultural bias whatsoever which is not driving his
non-ideology* will not do much to discourage him fromnuclear blackmail once
he has the capability.
This is a very big difference that I'm seeing between us.
Best,
Doug
"Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote in message
news:42d6cb58@linux...
> Well........you may assume that my impressions of Europe are wrong, but
> these impressions were of Europeans who were *from Europe* who were
> professionals, hippies, soldiers, tradesmen and were there for long
periods
> of time, returning to this place again and again, year after year for
almost
> 20 years and I saw the same thing happen, again and again, year after year
> for almost 20 years, so I'm sure there is no reason to assume there's any
> relationship between what I experienced and what is reality.
>
>
> "derek" <derekvonkrogh@gmx.net> wrote in message news:42d6c7de$1@linux...
> >
> > doug, the "let me explain america to you" part was, of course, pure
> irony.
> > but im somehow glad that
> > you missed it, because it should give you a nice impression
> > about how your ranting about
> > the europe you believe to know so much about comes
> > across to someone who actually does know a thing or two
> > about europe because he happens to live there.
> >
> > the sad part being, in your case it wasnt irony.
> >
> >
> >
> > "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> > >First of all, now I am really astounded at you. You say you know so
much
> > >about America??????? You are also getting your information from a very
> small
> > >sample. I know you lived here for a while and have visited here often,
> but
> > >you don't live here *now* and you are obviously choosing very carefully
> > what
> > >you want to believe. If you want to consider your sources to be any
more
> > >valid than mine, then first consider where your sources are coming from
> > and
> > >make sure you consider them all. I will try to do the same..........but
> > I
> > >assure you that if you ignore cultural differences which, whether you
> like
> > >it or not, are the reasons that stereotypes are created, they you do
> truly
> > >have your head buried in the sand.
> > >
> > >"derek" <derekvonkrogh@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:42d6bf8a$1@linux...
> > >>
> > >> wheres the part with the long visits to the countries you seem
> > >> to know enough about to be sure that your stereotypes are
> > >> "real"? you are really trying to tell ME (i LIVE here...) that your
> > >> stereotypes are "the truth" because of the bunch
> > >> stereotype-ish people that conveniently lived somewhere
> > >> near you in the last 20 years? you know, i happen to know
> > >> some americans that live here too. so let me explain to you
> > >> what america is and how america works, because i do know.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> unbelievable. even funny in a way.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> that non-judgmentalism you talk about, yeah i know, it currently
> > >> is peoples favourite enemy de la saison. ooooh non-judgmentalism!!!
bad
> > >bad
> > >> bad!!! its the antichrist! booooh!
> > >> *throws tomato*
> > >>
> > >> i gotta tell you, reading about how "well founded" your
> > >> ideas of europe were (reminds me of last time where you
> > >> marked "stefan schroeder" or some such as member of the
> > >> "evil" (TM) club, while not even knowing his actual name), i
> > >> think a little dose of humility and non-judgmentalism wouldnt be all
> that
> > >> bad.
> > >>
> > >> i wont go into the iraq thing any more than say that there is more to
> > the
> > >> whole story than
> > >> "violating UN sanctions" (which other countries like israel
> > >> or the US do just as much, not that it matters anymore).
> > >> fuck that dumb dicussion about peoples motivations -
> > >> usually a country operates driven by a mixture of greed,
> > >> egoism, a little dose of humanism and morality (preferably when it
> > >> happens to be in sync with other interests) and power.
> > >> ever
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| Re: DO NOT BUY A BEHRINGER BCF2000...EVIL!!!! EVIL!!!!! [message #54820 is a reply to message #54818] |
Wed, 22 June 2005 22:13 |
gene lennon
Messages: 565
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
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s so proud of his very original "nuke a moslem city
> > >> for every terror attack and itll teach them" joke, ha ha oh its so
> funny
> > >> ha ha) - israel is a prime example where you can compare the
> > >> different concepts of brute force versus deescalation.
> > >> brute force had about 40 years to prove itself as a
> > >> conflict ending concept. deescalation had about 5 years
> > >> (you know, until that religious dumbass shot rabin).
> > >> which concept came closer to actual peace? you tell me.
> > >>
> > >> im much more interested in that basic discussion of concepts
> > >> than in dealing stereotype bullshit like the "selfish
> > >> socialist europe" or the equally stupid speculation about
> > >> whether mr. bush's motivation is a selfish one or a selfless act
> > >> (i would guess its a typical case of a mixture).
> > >>
> > >> im too old for that BS. and you should be too. honestly.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> > >> >Well, I've got little time here so I'm going to try to finish this
in
> > a
> > >> >brief a post as possible.
> > >> >
> > >> >To sum up the previous post.......after 1976, when electricity and
> decent
> > >> >roads were brought into this area, it became an increasingly
> > >international
> > >> >community of people and a big experiment in socialism. The same
> problems
> > >> >that inevitably doom socialism to failure, were very evident and it
> was
> > >> a
> > >> >real eye opener to those among us who thouight we could transcend
> human
> > >> >nature for the *good of the group*. Also the permissiveness and
> > >> >non-judgmentalism that was part of this experiment (we call it
> political
> > >> >correctness now) caused a lot of problems. One really funny thing
> > >happened
> > >> >early on. The Indians who were all part of the big extended family
> that
> > >> ws
> > >> >running this place were all laughing like crazy one night at a get
> > >together
> > >> >they were having. I could understand their dialect and they had
known
> > me
> > >> for
> > >> >years. wht they were laughing about was the stereotypes they were
> > >noticing.
> > >> >
> > >> >The French tourists distrusted the Germans. The Italians and the
> French
> > >> >seemed to be in some sort of competition all the time with each
other.
> > >The
> > >> >Quebecois Canadians pretty much hated the French and vice versa. The
> > >Germans
> > >> >and the Americans got along pretty well, though no one really wanted
> > to
> > >> >admit liking the Americans much when Americans weren't around. The
> > >Americans
> > >> >seemed to have very strange reltionships with the Europeans and
other
> > >> >Americans. Some of the Americans wanted to be liked by the
Europeans,
> > >lots
> > >> >of the Americans wanted everyone to think they were Californians.
The
> > >> >Scandinavians were a bit aloof from the rest of the Europeans and
> > >Americans.
> > >> >The Texans weren't really considered to be Americans by the
Europeans
> > or
> > >> the
> > >> >Mexicans and got along better with the Mexicans than with anyone
else
> > >there.
> > >> >There were lots of other things like this that they were noticing.
The
> > >> >really telling thing about it all was that every nationality
> eventually
> > >> >ended up at their own posada (sort of like an outdoor hotel on the
> > >beach).
> > >> >There was the German, French, Spanish, Swiss, American......etc.
> posada.
> > >> >Just like all of these people who were willing to pay lip service to
> > the
> > >> >idea of one big happy worle, were totally unable to practice this
and
> > >their
> > >> >preconceptions and stereotypes where easy to recognize by a group of
> > >people
> > >> >who were totally unfamiliar with world history and
> politics............so
> > >> >they saw the stereotypic BS that you ascribe to me. Once I heard
this,
> > I
> > >> >started paying attention to it and there is a lot more ugly stuff I
> could
> > >> >say about it, but it would do no good and despite your anger at me,
I
> > am
> > >> >basing my opinions on real experience, not theories of how things
> ought
> > >> to
> > >> >be.
> > >> >
> > >> >During the 70's and 80's this was a good jumping off place for
> travelling
> > >> >further down into central and south america. It was pretty awful
down
> > >there
> > >> >because there was a lot of killing going on, boith over politics and
> > >drugs
> > >> >(which were pretty much the same). The Hollywood movies like
Salvador
> > >only
> > >> >show one side of this *freedom fighter* picture. It was awful, but I
> > saw
> > >> >some stuff down there that was done by Cuban agents and their
> > >bloodthirsty
> > >> >guerilla allies that was as bad as anything you can possibly imagine
> > in
> > >> your
> > >> >worst nightmares. None of this kind of stuff is good, but I can
assure
> > >you
> > >> >that Americans weren't the only ones associated with death squads.
It
> > was
> > >> >just reported that way in the press.
> > >> >
> > >> >As far as my comments which apparently have convinced you that I am
> > >> >unrecoginzable, perhaps I am. People change. We have been attacked.
We
> > >know
> > >> >how long it takes the UN do anything. In the meantime.....millions
of
> > >people
> > >> >can die. Sadaam had been in violation of the UN sanctions for years
> and
> > >> was
> > >> >in a position to do us a lot of harm. I don't buy the idea that he
was
> > >some
> > >> >non-threat. Saying that we should have waited longer after we had
> waited
> > >> for
> > >> >10 years while the French, Russians and the UN bureaucrats had
> supported
> > >> >Sadaam against the same resolutions they had approved gives me
little
> > >faith
> > >> >in the UN doing anything right or in a timely manner and given this
> > >> >experience.
> > >> >
> > >> >I think the European people should be supporting us and they are
very
> > >> >divided about this. My opinions are mixed about them as well so
> > >yes......I
> > >> >have changed. I'm tryly sorry that you now see me as some kind of
evil
> > >> >person, but I'll get over it.
> > >> >
> > >> >Regards,
> > >> >
> > >> >Doug
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >"Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote in message
> > >> >news:42d54f92@linux...
> > >> >> Ok Derek,
> > >> >>
> > >> >> >maybe im missing the irony or some linguistic fineprint,
> > >> >> but as far as im concerned, doug, no i dont understand you.
reading
> > the
> > >> >> stereotype BS you spread<
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I'm not spouting stereotypes for the sake of trying to make
someone
> > >*bad*
> > >> >> and someone else *good*. I am relating the truth I have seen based
> > on
> > >> real
> > >> >> world experience. If it's ugly to you, then that's good. It's ugly
> > to
> > >> me
> > >> >> too. When I look at what is happening I see stereotypes, though
they
> > >are
> > >> >not
> > >> >> racial, they are cultural, they are constantly evolving and they
are
> > >very
> > >> >> real. From around 1965 through 1995 I spent a good part of my life
> > as
> > >> part
> > >> >> of one of these evolving stereotypes.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I am old compared to most of the folks here, I think. I was born
in
> > >1950.
> > >> >> The town where I was born was a small town in the southern US
which
> > was
> > >> >full
> > >> >> of hypocracy and racial predjudice. I remember some very ugly
things
> > >very
> > >> >> vividly. Without going into a lot of detail about this, the effect
> > of
> > >> this
> > >> >> made me really angry and very willing to believe that there was
> > >something
> > >> >> wrong with what my parents generation was saying, but not doing. I
> > also
> > >> >came
> > >> >> to distrust organized religion at a very early age because of
these
> > >> >> experiences and the hypocracy I saw.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> My grandmother had a big hammond organ in her parlor and also a
baby
> > >grand
> > >> >> piano. From the time I was about 5 years old, I would climb up on
> the
> > >> >> benches and play the keys. I was told I had a *good ear* because I
> > >could
> > >> >> listen to the radio songs and figure out how to play them on the
> keys
> > >> >> (though I couldn't reach the pedals ;o). During the 50's, I lived
in
> > >south
> > >> >> Texas (part of the time in Erling's favorite place, Corpus
Christi,
> > >Texas)
> > >> >> and travelled across the border into Mexico often with my father.
> > He
> > >> was
> > >> >a
> > >> >> merchanical design engineer and a pilot and did a lot of work
> designing
> > >> >> large installations for the agricultural interests which were
> sponsored
> > >> by
> > >> >> both rich Mexican landowners and the Mexican government (which was
> > >> >basically
> > >> >> rich Mexican and other international landowners) I saw lots more
> > >ugliness
> > >> >> there as far as exploitation of people by other people. It was so
> > >> >obviously
> > >> >> wrong and when I would ask my father about it, he would excuse it,
> > but
> > >> I
> > >> >> couldn't accept this. I became very rebellous and a what is called
> > >here,
> > >> a
> > >> >> *problem child*
> > >> >>
> > >> >> By 1965, this pissed off 15 year old kid was playing in a band
that
> > was
> > >> >> fortunate (or unfortunate) enough to be recognized in a fairly
large
> > >> >> regional market. By the time I was 17 years old we were opening
> shows
> > >> for
> > >> >> touring acts. Our roadies were a bunch of disillusioned ex VietNam
> > Vets
> > >> >who
> > >> >> were majorly into drugs (especially asian varieies of pot and also
> > >opiates
> > >> >> and LSD/hallucenogens) and the emerging drug/anti war
> counterculture
> > >> and
> > >> >> our management were a bunch of old school hollywood type
> entertainment
> > >> >> industry scumbags who would exploit their own mother if it would
> make
> > >> them
> > >> >> $$$. They had no problem keeping a bunch of young kids tweaked on
> > >> >> amphetamines to make sure they were *up for the gig*.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> By 1968, I had somehow managed to graduate from high school and
had
> > >been
> > >> >> accepted to a number of universities. My folks were willing to do
> what
> > >> >they
> > >> >> could to help and I knew I couldn't sustain the music career
(which
> > was
> > >> >less
> > >> >> a career and more like a party) and continue my education, plus I
> was
> > >> so
> > >> >> totally burned out from the *lifestyle* that whatever creative
spark
> > >that
> > >> >I
> > >> >> had tried to cultivate during this time was in the crapper anyway.
> > I
> > >> >didn't
> > >> >> want to be a musician any more. I was not, however, burned out on
my
> > >> >> countercultural beliefs. I was *into it* before it was considered
to
> > be
> > >> >> *cool*, at least in Texas.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> There was this war going on and lots of my friends were headed
over
> > >there.
> > >> >> This country was being torn apart by dissention and I became more
> and
> > >> more
> > >> >> involved in the anti-war movement and the increasingly emerging
> > >> >philosophy
> > >> >> of non-judgmentalism and defiance of the rule of law/politial
> > >anarchism.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> While I was in school, I ran into a few old acquaintances. They
were
> > >the
> > >> >> rich children of some of the people my dad had been doing business
> > with
> > >> in
> > >> >> Mexico. They were going to universtity in the states and were,
like
> > me,
> > >> >> angry, into the counterculture and we renewed our friendships. I
> > >started
> > >> >> going down to Mexico with them on school holidays and we would
> travel
> > >> to
> > >> >> places which were pretty unbelievable. Like paradises which were
> mostly
> > >> >> untouched by human beings (except of course, the local Indians,
who
> > >were
> > >> >not
> > >> >> really considered to be human by anyone, including these
> *enlightened*
> > >> >young
> > >> >> Mexican revolutionaries-the Indians weren't cool. They were
> > >> >traditionalists
> > >> >> and not into drugs, socialism and free love). A lot of the friends
> > of
> > >> my
> > >> >> Mexican friends were going to European universities and I met
quite
> > a
> > >> few
> > >> >of
> > >> >> them and quite a few of their european friends who were my age and
> > >would
> > >> >> travel with them on holiday. We became well acquainted and we
shared
> > a
> > >> lot
> > >> >> in common with our political philosophies which were becoming
> > >increasing
> > >> >> leftist-leaning. It is ironic that the children of priviledge were
> > the
> > >> >ones
> > >> >> who most despised the systems that allowed them those priviledges.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> In early 1970 I moved to Los Angeles because I wanted to get away
> from
> > >> >> Texas, go to school out there and be a part of the California
scene.
> > My
> > >> >> uncle was a business partner with a big television star from
Texas,
> > had
> > >> a
> > >> >> big house and invited me to live with them while I established
> myself.
> > >> >> During the time I was there, I met quite a few of the folks in the
> > film
> > >> >and
> > >> >> music industry and their kids.
> > >> >> Some of these kids are now known as part of the
> > >> >> *Hollywood elite* and are very active and outspoken
> > >> >> members of the leftist political scene in this country.
> > >> >> I also started getting a sense of discomfort with the drug
culture
> > >that
> > >> >was
> > >> >> going on, but was still cool because it was so integrated with the
> > rest
> > >> of
> > >> >> the anarchistic counter culture. This is where my beliefs in
> > >> >> non-judgementalism were beginning to be severely challenged. The
> > >decadence
> > >> >> was so unbelievable that it was obviously hurting people, but it
> wasn't
> > >> >cool
> > >> >> to talk about it. A bunch of the kids I was hanging out with knew
> some
> > >> >> people that called themselves *The Family*. I even went out to the
> > >ranch
> > >> >> where some of were still living while Charles Manson, their
leader,
> > was
> > >> in
> > >> >> jail on a multiple murder charges and I partied with them. One of
my
> > >> >cousins
> > >> >> had dated one of them, a guy from McKinney Texas named Tex Watson
> who
> > >> had
> > >> >> murdered people. There were some of the wierdest, scariest people
> you
> > >> can
> > >> >> imagine but even despite stuff like this, no one in the Hollywood
> > >> >> *counterculture* was willing to believe that some aspects of their
> > >> >lifestyle
> > >> >> might not be so great. Non-judgmentalism was sooooooo *uncool*.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I continued to participate as as activist in all of the *causes du
> > >jour*
> > >> I
> > >> >> supported gay rights and the *women's movement* (I loved the
moving
> > >women)
> > >> >> and celebrated when birth control pills became available and
> abortions
> > >> >> became legal. I was active in the democratic party, watched as the
> > >various
> > >> >> power brokers emerged in that party to *take care of* the Afro
> American
> > >> >> citizens
> > >> >> and Mexican American farm workers. I had been gassed in anti-war
> > >protests
> > >> >> and had my feet firmly planted in the *hate America* movement.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Anyway, by 1973 I had graduated from my college studies with a
major
> > >> >degree
> > >> >> in political science with minor studies in psychology and
economics.
> > >This
> > >> >> liberal arts education didn't really qualify me for any kind of
> career
> > >> >path
> > >> >> but I was young, invincible, resourceful and I figured if I knew
my
> > >way
> > >> >> around these things, I could pretty much make my way in the world.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> The first thing I did was to take some time and go back down to
> Mexico.
> > >> I
> > >> >> didn't want to be part of America anymore and I had seen a place
> during
> > >> my
> > >> >> travels down there where I thought I might be happy. It was a
> deserted
> > >> >place
> > >> >> with a *feeling* about it. I can't describe it, but others who I
> have
> > >> met
> > >> >> there who are more travelled than I am tell me they feel the same
> kind
> > >> of
> > >> >> *energy* there that they have felt in places like Jerusalem,
> Katmandhu,
> > >> >> Mecca and other locations which are considered to be religious
> > >> >destinations.
> > >> >> In 1973, it was just a deserted beach with a little store owned by
> > a
> > >> >Zapotec
> > >> >> Indian named Ramon Aguilar Villalobos and this exended family, two
> > of
> > >> >which
> > >> >> were his in-laws, Manuel and Maria who basically founded this
small
> > >> >village
> > >> >> back in the early 20th century and were very old. I spent a good
> part
> > >> of
> > >> >my
> > >> >> life in this place and lived with this family during those times
> from
> > >> 1973
> > >> >> until 1990. Unfortunately, this place is nothing like it used to
be
> > and
> > >> >now
> > >> >> even has websites dedicated to it, but I guess that's part of the
> story
> > >> >> about thie place.
> > >> >> I am going to post a link to this place so that you can see it.
You
> > may
> > >> >have
> > >> >> been there or know people who have. There is more to this story
but
> > I
> > >> have
> > >> >> work to do today so I will stop now and continue later when I have
> > the
> > >> >time.
> > >> >> This story actually does lead somewhere that is relevant to this
> > >> >> conversation. Sorry it has been so long but you have asked me a
> > >question
> > >> >> that is valid, but not easily answered, so I'll continue later if
> you
> > >> are
> > >> >> interested. Though I haven't been there for a while, this was my
> home
> > >> and
> > >> >is
> > >> >> still my second home-
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I know a lot of the people in these pictures. I watched them grow
up
> > >and
> > >> >> taught a few of them how to swim and catch fish. the beautiful
young
> > >> >woman,
> > >> >> Claudia is the
> > >> >> niece of my friend Ramon. The two people, John and Maria were
guests
> > at
> > >> my
> > >> >> home in Austin after one of my trips to Zipolite and we watched
the
> > >events
> > >> >> unfold at Tienamen Square on television. They were having some bad
> > drug
> > >> >> problems even then. They are both kind, intelligent victims of the
> > >social
> > >> >> experiment that is
> > >> >> happening there.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> http://www.greatvavavoom.com/stories/storyReader$56
> > >> >>
> > >> >> This link is also descriptive of how this place has evolved and
> what
> > >> the
> > >> >> place was like the last time I was there.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> http://community-2.webtv.net/ivanjay/IVANJSNAVELYHOMEPORT/
> > >> >>
> > >> >> more to come......
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Regards,
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Doug
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> "derek" <derekvonkrogh@gmx.net> wrote in message
> news:42d45df1@linux...
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > maybe im missing the irony or some linguistic fineprint,
> > >> >> > but as far as im concerned, doug, no i dont understand you.
> > >> >> > reading the stereotype BS you spread, im frankly shocked,
> > >> >> > thats pretty much all there is to it. i definetly dont recognize
> > you.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > maybe its because im a european hypocrite sitting on my ass or
> > >> >something.
> > >> >> > cause thats the way we are, we "euros", right?
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > *shakes head in disbelief*
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> > >> >> > >Yes I do. Unfortunately, we apparently understand each other.
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >Regards,
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >DJ
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >"derek" <derekvonkrogh@gmx.net> wrote in message
> > >> >news:42d45332$1@linux...
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >> you know how i meant it.
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >> whatever.
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> > >> >> > >> >It makes me sad too Derek. If the governments of Europe
would
> > >learn
> > >> >> from
> > >> >> > >> the
> > >> >> > >> >mistakes of the past, it would make me less sad.
> > >> >> > >> >
> > >> >> > >> >
> > >> >> > >> >"derek" <derekvonkrogh@gmx.net> wrote in message
> > >> >> news:42d436c1$1@linux...
> > >> >> > >> >>
> > >> >> > >> >> doug,
> > >> >> > >> >>
> > >> >> > >> >>
> > >> >> > >> >> your fucked up picture of europe truly makes me sad.
> > >> >> > >> >> youve come a long way, really.
> > >> >> > >> >>
> > >> >> > >> >>
> > >> >> > >> >> regards,
> > >> >> > >> >> derek
> > >> >> > >> >>
> > >> >> > >> >>
> > >> >> > >> >>
> > >> >> > >> >> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> > >> >> > >> >>
> > >> http://www.rotten.com/library/history/war/wmd/fuel-air-explo sion/
> > >> >> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > >> >> >Maybe this??? Lots less radioactivity.........but
> > >> >> > >seriously.............
> > >> >> > >> >> >you're right that Muslims are going to need to get real
> > >proactive
> > >> >> > with
> > >> >> > >> >their
> > >> >> > >> >> >own. There's some pretty Hitlerian dialog going on in
> Holland
> > >> >these
> > >> >> > >days
> > >> >> > >> >> >about how to clean up the *Islamic problem*. It's funny
> about
> > >> how
> > >> >> > the
> > >> >> > >> >Euro's
> > >> >> > >> >> >whine and bitch about how unfair and awful war is, then
> when
> > >> the
> > >> >> chips
> > >> >> > >> >are
> > >> >> > >> >> >down.......bingo!!!!!! let's sit around on our collective
> > >asses
> > >> >and
> > >> >> > >watch
> > >> >> > >> >> >the Serbs dio a little ethnic housekeeping........oh
> shit!!!!
> > >> >> > >> >.......those
> > >> >> > >> >> >meddling Americans came along and saved the Muslims and
> > >spoiled
> > >> >all
> > >> >> > >our
> > >> >> > >> >> >fun.............but hell, let's go visit our buddy Sadaam
> > and
> > >> >pick
> > >> >> > up
> > >> >> > >> a
> > >> >> > >> >> few
> > >> >> > >> >> >million barrells of oil while we're there. Those kids who
> > are
> > >> >dying
> > >> >> > of
> > >> >> > >> >> >starvation and disease due to our turning a blind eye to
> his
> > >> >> > >violations
> > >> >> > >> >> of
> > >> >> > >> >> >UN sanctions won't care. Hell, they're too busy swatting
> the
> > >> >flies
> > >> >> > off
> > >> >> > >> >their
> > >> >> > >> >> >festering wounds and running to the crapper with
> > >> >> disentery.........and
> > >> >> > >> >just
> > >> >> > >> >> >maybe while we're there we get lucky in a rape room.
> Whaddaya
> > >> say
> > >> >> > >guys?
> > >> >> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > >> >> >The hypocracy is just unbelievable.
> > >> >> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > >> >> >"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message
> > >news:42cf19b3$1@linux...
> > >> >> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> > >> >> >> Your whole line of thought, if correct - especially
your
> > 3rd
> > >> &
> > >> >> > >> >> >> 4th paragraphs - would mean that Bush is one of the
most
> > >evil
> > >> >> > >> >> >> sonsofbeeatches ever to walk the face of the earth. I
> find
> > >> it
> > >> >> > >> >> >> hard to believe that in ANY free society, that could be
> > the
> > >> >> > >> >> >> case. Dictatorships, yeah, free societies, nah.
> > >> >> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> > >> >> >> Ya know, as a side thought, for awhile there, I was
> really
> > >> >> > >> >> >> starting to feel like we made a mistake by going into
> > >Iraq...
> > >> >> > >> >> >> that we were hornswaggled, as they say - conned by the
> > >Iraqi's
> > >> >> > >> >> >> who are NOW in power, and who had their own agenda
> against
> > >> >> > >> >> >> Saddam. Now, with these latest bombings, I'm back to
> being
> > >> >> > >> >> >> all about retribution, since massive force is the only
> thing
> > >> >> > >> >> >> these extremists seem to understand - or if they don't
> > >> >> > >> >> >> understand it, at least we'll lower their numbers &
limit
>
> > >their
> > >> >> > >> >> >> capabilities by that method. So I'm now thinking that a
> > good
> > >> >> > >> >> >> position would be: for every terrorist attack that
occurs
> > >> >> > >> >> >> against us or one of our allies, we should nuke an
> Islamic
> > >> >city.
> > >> >> > >> >> >> One bomb - done. Next? Oh you want to bomb another
> embassy?
> > >> OK,
> > >> >> > >> >> >> fine, there goes another Islamic city... bigger bomb
this
> > >time.
> > >> >> > >> >> >> Trust me, that kind of shit wouldn't last too long
before
> > we
> > >> >> > >> >> >> had peace on earth & goodwill towards all men for a
good
> > >long
> > >> >> > >> >> >> time.
> > >> >> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> > >> >> >> Neil
> > >> >> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> > >> >> >> Neil
> > >> >> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> > >> >> >> "Mike Audet" <mike@mike......com> wrote:
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >Hi Mr. Simplicity,
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >Unfortunately, Iraq is very much about oil for the
US -
> > big
> > >> US
> > >> >> > oil
> > >> >> > >> >> >companies.
> > >> >> > >> >> >> > And, leaving Iraqi oil in the ground, or burning it
in
> > >bombed
> > >> >> > >> >pipelines
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >is exactly what they want to do. This whole war was
> about
> > >> >> > >> >destabilizing
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >the Middle East so that oil prices would rise and make
> > >> >billions
> > >> >> > for
> > >> >> > >> >> >George's
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >friends, screwing everyone else in the process.
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >Osama has publicly said that his mission is to
bankrupt
> > the
> > >> US
> > >> >> > the
> > >> >> > >> >same
> > >> >> > >> >> >> way
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >that he feels he bankrupted the USSR in Afghanistan as
> > >payback
> > >> >> > for
> > >> >> > >> >> >Israeli/US
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >aggression in Lebanon in the 1980s. I'm not defending
> > him
> > >> or
> > >> >> his
> > >> >> > >> >agenda
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >AT ALL, but we need to look at our enemies clearly -
and
> > >our
> > >> >> > >so-called
> > >> >> > >> >> >friends
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >- if we're going to make good decisions.
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >Just like Osama, Bush and his friends want to bankrupt
> > the
> > >> US
> > >> >> > >> >government
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >in several ways, too: they want to give as much money
> > as
> > >> >> possible
> > >> >> > >> to
> > >> >> > >> >> >their
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >corporate friends through reconstruction projects and
> > >military
> > >> >> > >> >contracts,
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >they want to dismantle, as much as possible, what
little
> > >> >social
> > >> >> > >> >> >safety-net
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >the US has, and they want to bleed the American people
> > >> >directly
> > >> >> > >with
> > >> >> > >> >> high
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >gas and oil prices.
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >The best way to end social spending and bring the US
> back
> > >> to
> > >> >the
> > >> >> > >early
> > >> >> > >> >> >1900s
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >economically (which seems to be part of the
conservative
> > >> >> ideology)
> > >> >> > >> is
> > >> >> > >> >> to
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >saddle the government with so much debt that the
public
> > >simply
> > >> >> > >can't
> > >> >> > >> >> >afford
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >social programs anymore. He's intentionally trying to
> > >> >bankrupt
> > >> >> > the
> > >> >> > >> US
> > >> >> > >> >> >government
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >to further entrench the power of his rich friends, and
> > he's
> > >> >> doing
> > >> >> > >> a
> > >> >> > >> >great
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >job.
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >There are two things that most so-called conservatives
> > >don't
> > >> >> seem
> > >> >> > >> to
> > >> >> > >> >> >consider.
> > >> >> > >> >> >> > One, if you don't redistribute a certain amount of
> wealth
> > >> >> through
> > >> >> > >> >> >taxation,
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >it gets so concentrated that the economy collapses and
> > >> >nobodies
> > >> >> > >wealth
> > >> >> > >> >> is
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >worth anything anymore. Second, cutting taxes shrinks
> > the
> > >> >> economy.
> > >> >> > >> >> Why?
> > >> >> > >> >> >> > Because individuals, especially rich ones, don't
spend
> > >100%
> > >> >of
> > >> >> > >every
> > >> >> > >> >> >dollar
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >they earn - they save some of it. Governments
generally
> > >spend
> > >> >> > >every
> > >> >> > >> >> red
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >cent they bring in. So, when George cuts taxes for
his
> > >rich
> > >> >> > >friends,
> > >> >> > >> >> >the
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >US economy actually shrinks by the amount that people
> save
> > >> and
> > >> >> > >> >government
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >would have spent, further contributing the bankrupting
> > of
> > >> >> America.
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >As a Canadian, I'm extremely worried about the
direction
> > >that
> > >> >> the
> > >> >> > >> US
> > >> >> > >> >> is
> > >> >> > >> >> >> heading
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >in. Bush and the terrorists seem to have the same
> agenda.
> > >> >> There's
> > >> >> > >> no
> > >> >> > >> >> >success
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >for Canada if the US falls apart. I can't even tell
you
> > >how
> > >> >> > >> >heartbroken
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >and disappointed I was when George won the election.
> I've
> > >> >> always
> > >> >> > >> >> >believed
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >in and admired Americans - and I still do - but these
> are
> > >> very
> > >> >> > >> >worrisome
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >times.
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >My heart goes out to everyone who has been affected by
> > this
> > >> >> > >> >senselessness
> > >> >> > >> >> >> > - American, British, Canadian, Iraqi, and everyone
> else.
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >All the best,
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >Mike Audet
> > >> >> > >
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| Re: DO NOT BUY A BEHRINGER BCF2000...EVIL!!!! EVIL!!!!! [message #54824 is a reply to message #54823] |
Wed, 22 June 2005 23:51 |
Martin Harrington
Messages: 560
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
es
> > >> on
> > >> >> > >earth
> > >> >> > >> >> who
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >saw
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >>> any
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >>> >merit in enforcing UN resolutions
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >>>
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >>> That annoys me too. I'm still anti-bush because I
> *hate*
> > >> >the
> > >> >> > way
> > >> >> > >> >they
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >went
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >>> about it... pretending it was an anti-terror
thing
> > >(which
> > >> >> > was
> > >> >> > >> >> >clearly
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >>garbage).
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >>> The issue I have too is that to me it seems that
GWB
> > and
> > >> co
> > >> >> > >wanted
> > >> >> > >> >> >Saddam
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >>> out not really so much because he was a bad man,
but
> > >> >because
> > >> >> > >they
> > >> >> > >> >> >noticed
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >>> Saddam was dealing with others, and figured
"freeing"
> > >Iraq
> > >> >> would
> > >> >> > >> >give
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >them
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >>> more oil power.
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >>>
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >>> It really frustrates me that as I look around those
> > >events,
> > >> >> > >> >> >politically,
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >>> every country pretty much seemed to be in it for
> their
> > >> own
> > >> >> > >agenda,
> > >> >> > >> >> and
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >not
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >>> for peace. Indeed the same could be said for much
of
> > the
> > >> >> public.
> > >> >> > >> It
> > >> >> > >> >> >was
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >>obviouly
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >>> sold as anti-terror because GWB & co didn't think
> "free
> > >> >Iraq
> > >> >> > >from
> > >> >> > >> >> >tyranny"
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >>> would sell because, simply put, a lot of the public
> > >don't
> > >> >> seem
> > >> >> > >> to
> > >> >> > >> >> care
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >if
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >>> others in some other country miles away suffer, so
> you
> > >> have
> > >> >> > to
> > >> >> > >> tell
> > >> >> > >> >> >them
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >>> that Iraq pose a threat. See, if GWB hadn't lied
> about
> > >> that
> > >> >> > I
> > >> >> > >> >*almost*
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >>would
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >>> have been on his side... though I still couldn't
> have
> > >> >> stomached
> > >> >> > >> >that
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >as
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >>> he was, to my mind, clearly in it for the oil. I
> think
> > >> if
> > >> >the
> > >> >> > >U.S.
> > >> >> > >> >> had
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >>waited
> > >> >> > >> >> >> >>> a little longer, and put a little more pressue on
the
> > >U.N.
> > >> >> that
> > >> >> > >> >> >eventually
> > >> >> > >&g
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