Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Dread At The Controls
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| Re: Dread At The Controls [message #97000 is a reply to message #96998] |
Mon, 17 March 2008 16:41   |
Nappy
Messages: 198
Registered: September 2006
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Senior Member |
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it can utilize all 4 x G of RAM
>for use with virtual instruments. However, the main point of getting this
>machine was to take advantage of it's capacity for operating at lower latencies.
>As far as low latency performance is concerned, the margin between the two
>OS'es give Win XP32 a significant edge.........significant enough to where
>I have decided to go exclusively with XP32. I have a fairly powerful systemlinked
>slave DAW to take up the slack if I run low on RAM in a mix and need more
>VSTi's (not to mention the freeze function).
>
>and yes James......I'm sure a Mac Pro can run circles around this, but a
>Mac Pro, tricked out to this degree would cost considerably more ;o).
>
>For me these days, it's about achieving a certain benchmark and that benchmark
>is to be able to use a native DAW with no audible latency, in the same way
>that I used Paris. that has been accomplished now.
>
>I just wanted to give you guys a heads up about this and also to apologize
>for being such a cantankerous wiseass (even more than usual) lately. I did
>buy some Brie recently as a gesture of solidarity with my socialist bretherin
>in France....
>
>Cheers,
>
>;o)Hi Chuck,
I'll take a closer look at it. Thanks again for everything. What daw are
you using these days (when you aren't working, which sounds like most of
the time)?
Cheers!
Mike
"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>
>I think if you spent a couple hours looking at eventiter you would figure
>it out. There is no coding for custom guis, just editing/creating the config
>files, which of course is ungodly hard :-)
>
>Chuck
>
>"Mike Audet" <mike@...> wrote:
>>
>>Thanks so much, Chuck. It is very kind of you to send it.
>>
>>I'd love to pick your brain a bit about how the custom graphics work sometime.
>> I never really did sort that out.
>>
>>Thanks again!
>>
>>Mike
>>
>>
>>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Guys,
>>>
>>>I know you are all salivating.
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| Re: Dread At The Controls [message #97001 is a reply to message #96998] |
Mon, 17 March 2008 16:46 |
Nappy
Messages: 198
Registered: September 2006
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Senior Member |
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>>>
>>>I've spent 1.5 of the last three months in dubai. Now under crushing pressure
>>>at work and on the home front. Things are truly crazy, but I will try
and
>>>get the machine out Friday.
>>>
>>>Once Mike has the machine, it is as he was thinking, a fairly straightforward
>>>process to build. The main thing is that any new .bmps need to become
.picts,
>>>which is probably not an issue, because from what I see mike is using
the
>>>controls from stockfx. Some compiler directives need to be modified, and
>>>project references to the .dlls for linking need to be set up.
>>>
>>>Chuck
>>>"Mike Audet" <mike@...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Hi Guys,
>>>>
>>>>I have full confidence that Chuck will send the mac as soon as he can,
>>but
>>>>just out of enthusiasm, I bought a copy of Codewarrior 4 off ebay yesterday.
>>>> We'll see how it goes. Chuck said he had a hell of a time before he
>got
>>>>the development mac.
>>>>
>>>>All the best,
>>>>
>>>>Mike
>>>>
>>>>"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>As am I.
>>>>>
>>>>>WAAAANHHH!
>>>>>
>>>>>Gantt
>>>>>
>>>>>P.S. Sorry to whine.
>>>>>
>>>>>"Ted Gerber" <tedgerber@rogers.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Don Nafe" <dnafe@rogers.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>That would be a DP/Pro hall reverb as ported by our guy Mike
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Which Ted can't hear because he's on a Mac :>(
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>I have two complete PARIS systems
#1 has Mac G4 750 with 2EDS 1000 cards
2 of the one rack space interfaces
I'm not sure what the model number is
but they only made two interfaces
the MEC and this one
#2 has a MAC G4 dual 1000 with
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| Re: Dread At The Controls [message #97008 is a reply to message #97003] |
Mon, 17 March 2008 22:45 |
Nappy
Messages: 198
Registered: September 2006
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Senior Member |
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gt;got sick in February.......real sick, and wasn't able to really work for
>about 3 weeks and during that time I needed to be working at least 50 hours
>a week on a drilling program that I had committed to, so when I got well
>enough to work, the shit had hit the fan, I was behind the 8 ball and so
>I spent the next 60 days trying to stay ahead of 5 drilling rigs that had
>moved into this area (because I told them I could do what needed to get
done
>to keep them busy)and unless I pulled a rabbit out of my hat, they were
going
>to sit idle to the tune of $17,000.00 per day....and that was just for one
>client. another one had me doing some other stuff that was even more stressful
>so anyway, I know I've been abraisive and cranky oand a little whacked out
>so thanks for not kicking me out of the group..........and during this time,
>I've had Chris Ludwig build me a new DAW.
>
>It's an Intel Quad Core machine and is capable of playing back 40 tracks
>at 1.5ms latency while recording 8 more with a 70% DSP load of UAD-1 plugins.
>In Parisspeak, that's roughly a 3 MEC system running lots of UAD-1 plugins
>at zero audible latency with a wonderful cue system, VSTi's, and every bell
>and whistle you can imagine, without using ASIO direct monitoring.
>ADK did a great job on this box and it wasn't real expensive. the cores
are
>running at 3.2GHz per, it's got 4G of RAM and 4 x 500G 7200 RPM SATAII HD's
>configured into a RAID 10 Array. I'm also running a pair of 750G SATAII
drives
>for audio samples and backup, respectively.
>
>Does it sound like Paris? Nope, but it sounds very good. It's possible to
>mix in Native and get "BIG". It's just a different prescription. The Neve
>5042 tape emulator doesn't hurt either.
>
>I ordered it with two system drives, one running Win XP Pro and the other
>running Win XP x64 Pro. The first drive I tested was with Win XP64. The
good
>news was that this DAW is quite a bit more powerful than my dualcore Opteron
>185 so I was able to achieve the 1.5 ms latency target that I was hoping
>for. My VSTis' are as follows:
>GPO
>Ivory
>NI B4
>NI Bandstand
>BFD
>BFDII
>Jamstix II
>Trilogy
>Drumagog
>
>I was able to load all but one of my VSTi's and that one was Ivory. This
>one wouldn't play nice with a 64 bit OS.
>
>Despite speculation from Native Instruments that the NI installer would
not
>work in Win XP x64........all of them did load.....NI B4II, GPO and Bandstand
>work fine in both the standalone and VSTi formats. It's just a matter of
>pointing them elsewhere instead of the default path it wants to use and
they
>run just fine.
>
>Performance was good at low latency, but not "as good" as I had hoped with
>high track counts. For instance, I had 60 + tracks record enabled at both
>32k and 64k buffers and was getting between 25% to 35% CPU loads. Also,
there
>was quite a bit of ASIO loading in Cubase when streaming samples in BFD
and
>BFD2. More really than with my older Opteron system.
>
>After working a while with XP64 I started loading the same programs on the
>system drive running Windows XP32. I can record enable over 100 tracks at
>32k buffers an the CPU load is around 10%.
>
>An even bigger difference is seen when playing back a project that is loaded
>down with plugin count. Playing back a 40 track project with a 70% UAD-1
>DSP while recording 8 x more tracks was getting a little dicey at 64k buffers
>on XP64 (ASI
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| Re: Dread At The Controls [message #97010 is a reply to message #97003] |
Mon, 17 March 2008 23:18 |
Nappy
Messages: 198
Registered: September 2006
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Senior Member |
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than usual) lately. I did
>buy some Brie recently as a gesture of solidarity with my socialist bretherin
>in France....
>
>Cheers,
>
>;o)what got me to bail was:
no support from vendor
16 channel submix limitations
no latency compensation
poor stability, i crashed all the time in win98 and xp
no software updates coming for the app
no hardware updates coming
cubase has all that and moreHi John,
I agree with all of this except I never crash in either OS. That part is
weird.
I still feel that latency above 1.5 ms is too high, and the only other option
for that is Pro Tools HD. I'm suspicious that the 1.5 ms setting in the
RME stuff is for in or out, and a round trip is actually 3 ms. That's fine
for some, but not for me.
As for latency, I'm going to try to make an eds effect send mixer thingy
to be able to blend tracks with auxes with no latency between them. We'll
see how it goes.
Besides that, I like the PARIS application. I like the way the editing works.
I like the mixed, and the C16.
Maybe I'm just old fashioned. :)
MikeOld fashioned eh? I haven't seen anyone toss a Neve or API piece in the
garbage because it's not the new and improved whatever. :)
I mean, there are issues with staying with paris in certain situations, like
working in the video field or having to use midi that actually works or
virtual instruments. But I think you're right about the latency thing and it
'is' a big deal. However, you didn't mention the SCOPE stuff and the latency
on those is also pretty wicked low so PT is not the only alternative to the
working man. To be honest, I'm really rather amazed that Deej sold his SCOPE
gear. The only gotcha I've found is the control/interface GUI. It doth suck,
and is not easily understood. What will eventually kill Paris for every one
of us though is going to be the death of a usable PCI slot. Once that
happens it's over, really, .....but ..... hopefully by then someone will
have built a great DSP emulation of the EDS card (cough) that runs on a
native CPU.
AA
"Mike Audet" <mike@...> wrote in message news:4839aedc$1@linux...
>
> Hi John,
>
> I agree with all of this except I never crash in either OS. That part is
> weird.
>
> I still feel that latency above 1.5 ms is too high, and the only other
> option
> for that is Pro Tools HD. I'm suspicious that the 1.5 ms setting in the
> RME stuff is for in or out, and a round trip is actually 3 ms. That's
> fine
> for some, but not for me.
>
> As for latency, I'm going to try to make an eds effect send mixer thingy
> to be able to blend tracks with auxes with no latency between them. We'll
> see how it goes.
>
> Besides that, I like the PARIS application. I like the way the editing
> works.
> I like the mixed, and the C16.
>
> Maybe I'm just old fashioned. :)
>
> Mike
>Hard practising;-)
"Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:48399ebd$1@linux...
>I can understand a little bit, but all my large Norwegian family speak
>perfect English so I never learned much. They did not offer Norsk in
>school. What is "hardtrenning"?
>
> erlilo wrote:
>> Bill, har du gaatt i hardtrening med norsken?-)
>>
>> "Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> skrev i en meddelelse
>> news:483964fa@linux...
>>> Tusen takk for musikken! Som er utmerket.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> erlilo wrote:
>>>> Here's some of my clients up against the years, playing a Norwegian
>>>> "Bluegrass" tune.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzlVUE5n5Dc
>>>>
>>>> Erling
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Bill L" <bill@billlorentzen.com> skrev i en meddelelse
>>>>
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| Re: Dread At The Controls [message #97020 is a reply to message #97010] |
Tue, 18 March 2008 06:10 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
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Senior Member |
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et" <mike@..> wrote in message news:4839b93b$1@linux...
>
>
>>have built a great DSP emulation of the EDS card (cough) that runs on a
>
>>native CPU.
>
> Would a port of all the effects to VST be close enough?Can't promise anything right now but I can probably pony up a MEC an 8 in /
8 out and an ADAT card as well as an IF2
Bottom line they would have to be returned at some point in time but that's
wide open right now as I do very little actual recording anymore. I'll know
within a couple of weeks whether my next mixing project is going to need the
2nd ADAT if not the rig is yours.
I'll cover the shipping to the person if the group covers the return trip.
DOn
"Kerry Galloway" <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote in message
news:C45F0B7F.B044%kg@kerrygalloway.com...
> Hi all. I was going to save this post for a bit longer until I had more
> info
> to share, but it seems particularly timely today.
>
> Sorry this is a bit long - the summary is at the end. But as I'm putting
> out
> an appeal here, you should have full access to my "source code" :D
>
> As my previous posts have implied, I've been busy contacting people in
> various places about the possibilities of pushing PARIS forward. I've
> talked
> to many companies/developers. Some names might surprise you. There are
> very
> interesting avenues to pursue, and obstacles to overcome to get there.
>
> Development involving the PARIS app itself (eg EDS plugins or the
> FaderWorks
> PDC advances) looks to be in excellent hands courtesy of Mike Audet and
> Dimitrios and others. I'm focusing my own efforts elsewhere - I'm
> investigating what alternatives might exist for the PARIS hardware
> independent of the PARIS app. This involves investigating things like what
> driver options could be pursued; what alternative "front end" apps might
> feasibly be adapted to access the PARIS hardware; and how we might obtain
> the ability to import/migrate ppjs/pafs into another app to "future proof"
> our access to our "back catalogs".
>
> I can only promise I'm working hard in the background and have devoted
> many
> hours already to the effort. I can't make promises on behalf of others,
> but
> I see the bulk of items on my list as more "to do" items than a "wish
> list",
> and if two minor goals I'm working towards happen then I'd rate at least
> one
> of the developments (safeguarding our ppj/pafs) as both "fairly likely"
> and
> "within a reasonably short timeframe".
>
> BTW, I have already rejected some promising solutions that involved asking
> the community for significant sums of money for development specific only
> to
> PARIS. I've talked to genuinely interested developers, folks with great
> track records and real good will who have offered me every break in the
> book, but I don't propose taking the community down that road. I'm instead
> seeking developers who will help for their own reasons. Like this one:
> Mike
> Audet and I have independently estimated the PARIS userbase as some 400
> users worldwide (I have recorded over 40 within the last few months
> amongst
> the subset of PARIS users that post to the NG). Capturing a market of that
> size is not insignificant for a smaller developer looking to build their
> clientele - it can be worth them throwing some effort into investigating
> making those people happy (particularly if the developer has existing code
> that might merely need tweaking). And there are aspects of the PARIS
> community that might make it more interesting to certain developers than
> raw
> numbers might dictate.
>
>>>>>
>
> Here's the immediate obstacle I want to ask the community about.
>
> Even the most interested developers can't do much for us if they don't
> have
> a PARIS rig - and in 2008 PARIS rigs aren't easy to run out and buy. Given
> our small size as a market, if we as a community are asking a developer to
> do things for us, then telling them "go out and source and purchase a
> PARIS
> rig so you can help us out" isn't gonna fly. Neither is promising a
> developer you'll get them access to a rig to test on without being sure
> you
> can deliver. If the community wants developers to work on PARIS, and those
> developers have to have a PARIS rig available in order to help us - then
> IMHO it's *in the community's best interest to provide one to them*.
>
>>>>>
>
> So this is a "feeler" post. IMHO the community needs a pre-assembled,
> "turnkey" (ie pre-installed on a computer) PARIS development rig, ready to
> be shipped to developers that could
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| Re: Dread At The Controls [message #97024 is a reply to message #97020] |
Tue, 18 March 2008 09:06 |
Nappy
Messages: 198
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
get="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voNjeUUcdSo
>>
>> And if that don't get it this will - ol' school style:
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKXXzJhhlhQ
>"Mike Audet" <mike@..> wrote:
>
>DJ, are the latency values round trip or based on input and output buffers?
>
>
>I emailed RME the same questions, but I thought you might know.
>
>All the best,
>
>Mike
Mike,
I think thereis an extra 32k of round trip latency involved with the RME
gear, so 64k buffers (a/k/a 1.5ms latency) is actually around 2.25ms. RME
won't admit that there this voodoo going on so I'd be surprised if they answer
you. AFAIK, the LynxTwo series of cards has the best low latency performance,
or at least that's what I read on the various forums. chris Ludwig would
probaly be a better authority on this than I.
;o)"Mike Audet" <mike@..> wrote:
>
>Hi Deej,
>
>Thanks for sharing this. The latency is the one issue that I simply could
>never deal with in a native daw.
>
>It is really encouraging to hear that native may be ready for prime time.
> I wonder if a quad core phenom would do as well as the core 2.
I think the phenom's are way behind the Intel chips at this point. My Opteron
185 (2600MHz per core in the old DAW) is basically a Phenom. From what I'm
seeing here, it's performance is about 40% "less capable than the Intel Quad
I'm running here when working at low latencies.
>Would NoLimt!, the compressors, and the verbs in vst format be something
>you would use in this new beast? I'm thinking that keeping the algos alive
>in native form will be the best way to keep Paris alive over the long term,
>and also keep you ex-pats in the fold.
>
>All the best,
I'd buy them. I'm using exclusively UAD-1 plugins at this point. The paris
plugs would be cool to have.
>
;o)I'm not really in the right financial shape to donate a rig (Out of work/Starting
a new business), but I am looking to part with my rig. If any Paris die-hards
want to buy my rig at a reasonable price and donate it for development let
me know. I was about to post it to the FS group. I'm looking through the
old posts now to figure out what it's worth.
Here's what I've got in Austin,TX:
All of these are in Black
MEC
442
(2) EDS
8in card
8out card
ADAT card
(2) C16
It's running Paris 3.0 on an older Athlon XP/WinXP system -w- 1GB RAM. I
was going to re-purpose the PC for something else but would take offers for
it too.
-Brian
Kerry Galloway <kg@kerrygalloway.com> wrote:
>Hi all. I was going to save this post for a bit longer until I had more
info
>to share, but it seems particularly timely today.
>
>Sorry this is a bit long - the summary is at the end. But as I'm putting
out
>an appeal here, you should have full access to my "source code" :D
>
>As my previous posts have implied, I've been busy contacting people in
>various places about the possibilities of pushing PARIS forward. I've talked
>to many companies/developers. Some names might surprise you. There are very
>interesting avenues to pursue, and obstacles to overcome to get there.
>
>Development involving the PARIS app itself (eg EDS plugins or the FaderWorks
>PDC advances) looks to be in excellent hands courtesy of Mike Audet and
>Dimitrios and others. I'm focusing my own efforts elsewhere - I'm
>investigating what alternatives might exist for the PARIS hardware
>independent of the PARIS app. This involves investigating things like what
>driver options could be pursued; what alternative "front end" apps might
>feasibly be adapted to access the PARIS hardware; and how we might obtain
>the ability to import/migrate ppjs/pafs into another app to "future proof"
>our access to our "back catalogs".
>
>I can only promise I'm working hard in the background and have devoted many
>hours already to the effort. I can't make promises on behalf of others,
but
>I see the bulk of items on my list as more "to do" items than a "wish list",
>and if two minor goals I'm working towards happen then I'd rate at least
one
>of the developments (safeguarding our ppj/pafs) as both "fairly likely"
and
>"within a reasonably short timeframe".
>
>BTW, I have already rejected some promising solutions that involved asking
>the community for significant sums of money for development specific only
to
>PARIS. I've talked to genuinely interested developers, folks with great
>track records and real good will who have offered me every break in the
>book, but I don't propose taking the community down that road. I'm instead
>seeking developers who will help for their own reasons. Like this one: Mike
>Audet and I have independently estimated the PARIS userbase as some 400
>users worldwide (I have recorded over 40 within the last few months amongst
>the subset of PARIS users that post to the NG). Capturing a market of that
>size is not insignificant for a smaller developer looking to build their
>clientele - it can be worth them throwing some effort into investigating
>making those people happy (particularly if the developer has existing code
>that might merely need tweaking). And there are aspects of the PARIS
>community that might make it more interesting to certain developers than
raw
>numbers might dictate.
>
>>>>>
>
>Here's the immediate obstacle I want to ask the community about.
>
>Even the most interested developers can't do much for us if they don't have
>a PARIS rig - and in 2008 PARIS rigs aren't easy to run out and buy. Given
>our small size as a market, if we as a community are asking a developer
to
>do things for us, then telling them "go out and source and purchase a PARIS
>rig so you can help us out" isn't gonna fly. Neither is promising a
>developer you'll get them access to a rig to test on without be
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