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| Re: NS10m monitors [message #71498 is a reply to message #71493] |
Sun, 20 August 2006 11:58   |
Mike Audet
Messages: 294
Registered: December 2008
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Senior Member |
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sional.com> wrote in message news:450f8aec@linux...
> >> There is plenty of finger pointing to go around. No doubt specific
> >> things could have been handled better under the previous government.
> >>
> >> The transition of power between the previous and current governments
was
> >> pretty rocky, and a "not invented here" syndrome may have doomed the
> >> hand-off of some al-Qaida related work that was in progress.
> >>
> >> In any case, no government gets a pass by blaming the previous
> >> government. The current government, for example, failed to follow
> >> through and prioritize the al-Qaida threat ahead of 9/11 and failed to
> >> prevent 9/11; failed to find and capture Bin Laden in Afghanistan;
> >> failed to overcome Taliban control of large areas of Afghanistan;
> >> allowed record drug production to reestablish itself there; failed to
> >> plan for post Iraq invasion problems predicted by their own state
> >> department; and they have continually exploited the "war on terrorism"
> >> for domestic political ends.
> >>
> >> You assert the WMDs were there. However Bush's chief inspector, and
Bush
> >> himself, say they weren't there after all. It was a bluff. One of the
> >> Iraqi expatriate promoters of the bluff got the ear of our government,
> >> was believed, and, last I heard, had parlayed it into a position of
> >> power in Iraq after the invasion.
> >>
> >> The dems you mentioned authorized the military attack on Iraq as a last
> >> resort and I don't believe they were satisfied it was done as such.
> >>
> >> Preemptive invasion is new as part of the "Bush (Jr.) Doctrine."
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> -Jamie
> >> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
> >>
> >>
> >> DJ wrote:
> >>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
news:450f3862@linux...
> >>>> Neither, actually. And what we ought to do would depend on the nature
> > of
> >>>> the threat.
> >>> Agreed.
> >>>
> >>>> We might want to start with recommendations published in 1999, well
> >>>> before the 9/11 attack.
> >>>>
> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Commission_on_Terroris m
> >>>>
> >>>> We can disagree about whether our current policy is one of
overreacting
> >>>> or not. We can probably really disagree about the newly minted
> >>>> preemptive attack policy. :^)
> >>> I don't think there is any newly minted attack policy. There has
always
> > been
> >>> the *clear and present danger* perogative but it needs to be based on
> >>> accurate intelligence. Had this been available, then I doubt that
Bush,
> >>> Kerry, Kennedy Pelosi and the rest would have authorized the invasion
of
> >>> Iraq, or perhaps they would have been able to find the WMD's before
they
> >>> were shipped out of the country or hidden. I just find it hard to
> > stomach
> >>> the hypocracy of the democrats whose policies neutered our
intelligence
> >>> services in the '90's when they trun around and blame Bush for the
> > decisions
> >>> made based on the intellegence blunders they created in the first
place.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Deej
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Cheers,
> >>>> -Jamie
> >>>> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> DJ wrote:
> >>>>> I don't see us overreacting Jamie. However, if there is indication
of
> >>> some
> >>>>> sort of major threat, do we run and tell the NY times or do we blow
> > the
> >>>>> threat away before it pays us a visit?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
> > news:450f0b12@linux...
> >>>>>> Of course they came out with a blustery ultimatum. That's not news,
> >>> it's
>
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| Re: NS10m monitors [message #71502 is a reply to message #71498] |
Sun, 20 August 2006 13:10 |
John Macy
Messages: 242
Registered: April 2006
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Senior Member |
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opposed to irrationality.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
> >>>>> news:450ec970@linux...
> >>>>>>>>>> The Catholic church doesn't speak for Christianity. Certainly
not
> >>> for
> >>>>>>>>>> Lutherans, and for good reason.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> A Pope criticizing other religions (even other Christian sects,
> >>> even
> >>>>>>>>>> other Catholics) is nothing new. Certainly much harsher things
> > have
> >>>>>>> been
> >>>>>>>>>> said about Islam by some (not all) extreme fundamentalist
> >>> Christians.
> >>>>>>>>>> And certainly much harsher things have been said by certain
> >>> extremist
> >>>>>>>>>> Islamists about Christianity. The more extremist of both camps
> > seem
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>> be spoiling to relive the crusades. With some of the more power
> >>>>> hungry
> >>>>>>>>>> ready to endanger civilization by attempting to incite
religious
> >>> wars
> >>>>>>>>>> for their own questionable ends.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> It's a vast generalization to say the "the left" or
"secularists"
> >>> or
> >>>>>>>>>> even "Christians" are demanding an apology from the Pope. I
think
> > a
> >>>>>>>>>> whole lot of people think the Pope can say whatever he wants.
It
> >>>>>>> doesn't
> >>>>>>>>>> matter to most non-Catholics in the USA and in reality, Papal
> >>>>>>>>>> declarations are ignored by a fair number of Catholics here,
too.
> >>>>>>>>>> Obviously some Moslems are upset in some places, but how deep
> > does
> >>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>>> go? When black churches were burning in the USA, it would have
> > been
> >>>>> an
> >>>>>>>>>> exaggeration to blame everyone in the USA for that.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> The fear of reason extends to the Catholic church which only
very
> >>>>>>>>>> recently apologized for the oppression of Galileo. The church
> > hung
> >>> on
> >>>>>>>>>> tenaciously to the dogma of an earth-centered view of the
> > universe
> >>>>>>> while
> >>>>>>>>>> denying the heliocentric theory of Copernicus, which describes
> > the
> >>>>>>>>>> actual way the solar system works.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> It also extends to a few Christian sects who, feeling similarly
> >>>>>>>>>> insecure, tenaciously cling to the notion that the earth is
only
> >>>>> about
> >>>>>>>>>> 6,000 years old, by virtue of the biblical interpretations and
> >>> clever
> >>>>>>>>>> (at the time) calculations of an Irish Bishop several centuries
> >>> ago,
> >>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>> in the face of solid current scientific evidence to the
contrary.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> The fear of reason extends to some (not all) Christian churches
> >>> who,
> >>>>>>>>>> feeling similarly insecure, deny the solid and ever-mounting
> >>> evidence
> >>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>>> evolution, responding with dogma in psuedo-scientific clothing,
> > and
> >>>>> who
> >>>>>>>>>> seek to water down scientific education in the USA.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> The fear of reason extends to power hungry industries who pay
big
> >>>>> bucks
> >>>>>>>>>> to spread denial about global warming for short term gain. Who
> > push
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>> control oil in the middle east with force. With our guns
blazing,
> >>> our
> >>>>>>>>>> soldiers dying and our debt rising astronomically. And who
> >>> sometimes
> >>>>>>>>>> hide behind Christianity to do so.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> The fear of reason extends to some neoconservatives who find
ways
> >>> to
> >>>>>>>>>> pretend that everyone is aligning against Christianity. And in
> >>>>>>> spreading
> >>>>>>>>>> this fear attempt to incite Christians to vote to keep them in
> >>> power.
> >>>>>>>>>> And in so pandering, help to continue the denial of reason and
> > the
> >>>>>
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