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| Re: OT:movie on 911-youve got to see this [message #71518 is a reply to message #71517] |
Sun, 20 August 2006 22:28   |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
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Senior Member |
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.yet. Al
>>> Quaeda
>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>> came out with an ultimatim stating that it's full on war now and
> the
>>>>>>> west
>>>>>>>>> will be destroyed. The only way to save ourselves is to convert to
>>>>>>> Islam. So
>>>>>>>>> where to you draw the line between irrationality and self defense?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:450ee7ef@linux...
>>>>>>>>>> Let's keep from reacting to irrationality with irrationality of
> our
>>>>>>> own.
>>>>>>>>>> There's a lot of fear mongering. Chicken Little is back.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> DJ wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> It doesn't matter at all whether this was the Pope. The bottom
>>> line
>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> it is rationality as opposed to irrationality.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:450ec970@linux...
>>>>>>>>>>>> The Catholic church doesn't speak for Christianity. Certainly
> not
>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lutherans, and for good reason.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> A Pope criticizing other religions (even other Christian sects,
>>>>> even
>>>>>>>>>>>> other Catholics) is nothing new. Certainly much harsher things
>>> have
>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>>>>> said about Islam by some (not all) extreme fundamentalist
>>>>> Christians.
>>>>>>>>>>>> And certainly much harsher things have been said by certain
>>>>> extremist
>>>>>>>>>>>> Islamists about Christianity. The more extremist of both camps
>>> seem
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> be spoiling to relive the crusades. With some of the more power
>>>>>>> hungry
>>>>>>>>>>>> ready to endanger civilization by attempting to incite
> religious
>>>>> wars
>>>>>>>>>>>> for their own questionable ends.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It's a vast generalization to say the "the left" or
> "secularists"
>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> even "Christians" are demanding an apology from the Pope. I
> think
>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> whole lot of people think the Pope can say whatever he wants.
> It
>>>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>> matter to most non-Catholics in the USA and in reality, Papal
>>>>>>>>>>>> declarations are ignored by a fair number of Catholics here,
> too.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Obviously some Moslems are upset in some places, but how deep
>>> does
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> go? When black churches were burning in the USA, it would have
>>> been
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>>> exaggeration to blame everyone in the USA for that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The fear of reason extends to the Catholic church which only
> very
>>>>>>>>>>>> recently apologized for the oppression of Galileo. The church
>>> hung
>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>> tenaciously to the dogma of an earth-centered view of the
>>> universe
>>>>>>>>> while
>>>>>>>>>>>> denying the heliocentric theory of Copernicus, which describes
>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> actual way the solar system works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It also extends to a few Christian sects who, feeling similarly
>>>>>>>>>>>> insecure, tenaciously cling to the notion that the earth is
> only
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>> 6,000 years old, by virtue of the biblical interpretations and
>>>>> clever
>>>>>>>>>>>> (at the time) calculations of an Irish Bishop several centuries
>>>>> ago,
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> in the face of solid current scientific evidence to the
> contrary.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The fear of reason extends to some (not all) Christian churches
>>>>> who,
>>>>>>>>>>>> feeling similarly insecure, deny the solid and ever-mounting
>>>>> evidence
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> evolution, responding with dogma in psuedo-scientific clothing,
>>> and
>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>>> seek to water down scientific education in the USA.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The fear of reason extends to power hungry industries who pay
> big
>>>>>>> bucks
>>>>>>>>>>>> to spread denial about global warming for short term gain. Who
>>> push
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> control oil in the middle east with force. With our guns
> blazing,
>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>>> soldiers dying and our debt rising astronomically. And who
>>>>> sometimes
>>>>>>>>>>>> hide behind Christianity to do so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The fear of reason extends to some neoconservatives who find
> ways
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> pretend that everyone is aligning against Christianity. And in
>>>>>>>>> spreading
>>>>>>>>>>>> this fear attempt to incite Christians to vote to keep them in
>>>>> power.
>>>>>>>>>>>> And in so pandering, help to continue the denial of reason and
>>> the
>>>>>>>>> focus
>>>>>>>>>>>> on the use of force.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Not that I'll change your mind, DC, so go ahead and declare
>>>>> victory.
>>>>>>>>> ;^)
>>>>>>>>>>>> Have a great week!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>>>>>>> Report message to a moderator
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| Re: OT:movie on 911-youve got to see this [message #71519 is a reply to message #71517] |
Sun, 20 August 2006 22:46 |
Deej [1]
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
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Senior Member |
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/www.JamieKrutz.com" target="_blank">http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> DC wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought this was worth reading if any of you are interested.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have a great Monday!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Unholy Alliance Rolls Over the Pope
>>>>>>>>>>>>> By Andrew Walden
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In what has suddenly been made into a highly controversial
>>>>>>>>>>>>> speech, the day after September 11, at Bavaria’s University of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regensberg, Pope Benedict describes Christian belief in a God
>>>>>>>>>>>>> whose words and acts are bound by reason, truth and the law of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-contradiction. Benedict contrasts this with Islamic
> belief
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in a God not bound by anything—including his own words.
>>> Benedict
>>>>>>>>>>>>> further contrasts Christian belief with that of secular
>>> humanists
>>>>>>>>>>>>> who see reason as being completely unbound of God.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In response, both Islamists and secularists have demanded the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pope apologize. Benedict’s speech is a work of enlightened
>>>>>>>>>>>>> genius. He has clearly laid out the differences between
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christian culture and Islamic culture and the basis of the
> clash
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of civilizations we now experience as the War on Terror. His
>>>>>>>>>>>>> analysis also explains the underlying cause of the alliance
>>>>>>>>>>>>> between the western Left and the Islamofascist Right.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Islamist reaction focuses on one sentence in the speech.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reaching back to 1391, Benedict quotes Byzantine Emperor
> Manuel
>>>>>>>>>>>>> II: “Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and
> there
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his
> command
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to spread by the sword the faith he preached.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Four days later, according to AP: “Pakistan's legislature
>>>>>>>>>>>>> unanimously condemned Pope Benedict XVI. Lebanon's top Shiite
>>>>>>>>>>>>> cleric demanded an apology. And in Turkey, the ruling party
>>>>>>>>>>>>> likened the pontiff to Hitler and Mussolini and accused him of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reviving the mentality of the Crusades.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Across the Islamic world Friday, Benedict's remarks on Islam
>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> jihad in a speech in Germany unleashed a torrent of rage that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> many fear could burst into violent protests like those that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> followed publication of caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reuters quoted other sources expressing fears for the Pope’s
>>>>>>>>>>>>> safety and even fear of an attack on Vatican City.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Islamist reaction proves Manuel II’s 600-year-old point.
>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reaction is not one of anger but a calculated attempt to force
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Pope to parrot the PC line on Islam. Since Islam need not
> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> internally consistent and it is not bound by reason, it’s only
>>>>>>>>>>>>> objective can be to assert the power of a God who is so
>>>>>>>>>>>>> transcendent that He is not bound by anything. If man is
> created
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in God’s image then by extension Islamic man is not bound by
>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything. (This explains the predilection on the part of some
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Muslims to lie.) Islamists are not responding to any ‘offense’
>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> their non-existent morality. They are asserting the only
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ‘morality’ they have—the will to power.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Will to Power” is a key element of Nietzsche ’s
>>> philosophy—hence
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the root of the term, Islamofascist. Moreover the Western
> “Left’
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is today guided far more by Nietzsche existentialist thought
>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>>> by Marxist thought—hence the alliance between the Western
> “Left”
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the Islamofascist ‘Right.’
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reuters quotes an Indian Muslim leader doing precisely what
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Manuel II said they would: “Syed Ahmed Bukhari, the chief
> cleric
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of New Delhi's historic Jama Masjid, India's largest mosque,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> extolled Muslims to ‘respond in a manner which forces the Pope
>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> apologize.’” Note they intend to use “force” not reason.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reuters quotes an unnamed diplomat pointing out the Pope was,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> “calling a spade a spade”.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The secularist mouthpiece, New York Times,editorializes, “Pope
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Benedict XVI has insulted Muslims….” This is false. The Pope
> ’s
>>>>>>>>>>>>> description of the Islamic God as being unbound by reason is
> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> an insult, it is an Islamic article of faith. What Muslims
> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> secularists fear is the Pope’s decision to choose to enter
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dialogue asserting his belief in Christianity. How dare he
> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> “apologize” for being a Christian? That is the so-called
>>>>>>>>>>>>> “insult.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> One might “reasonably” ask when will Muslims “apologize” for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> being Muslim? But they are not bound by reason to the point is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lost on them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Amazingly the Times continues: “Muslim leaders the world over
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have demanded apologies… For many Muslims, holy war — jihad —
> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a spiritual struggle, and not a call to violence.” In saying
>>>>>>>>>
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| Re: OT:movie on 911-youve got to see this [message #71520 is a reply to message #71518] |
Mon, 21 August 2006 00:05 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
;>>>> this, the Times implicitly recognizes the Islamists are waging
> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> propaganda jihad against the Pope and by extension against
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christianity—and they explicitly endorse and join this jihad.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Times is saying to Islamists, ‘we can join your ‘spiritual
> ’
>>>>>>>>>>>>> jihad, but not your violent jihad.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Times editors are living in a fool’s paradise. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>> “spiritual” non-violent jihad of propaganda is merely the flip
>>>>>>>>>>>>> side of the violent jihad. Nowhere is that more clear than in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Islamist reaction to the Pope.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the Pope scheduled to visit Turkey in November the
>>> Islamists
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are rejecting any apology from Vatican spokespersons and
> demand
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to hear from the Pope himself. This would place raging mobs
> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> semi-literate Islamist thugs in the position of forcing the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> leader of Christendom to bow before them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this demand for submission they are joined by the
> secularist
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mouthpiece. In its September 16 edition the Times
>>> editorializes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> “He needs to offer a deep and persuasive apology…” The
>>>>>>>>>>>>> secularists too seek the Pope’s submission. Like the
> Islamists,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the secularists are driven only by their will to power. While
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Islamists represent their demented version of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> God--unrestrained by reason, the secularists represent their
>>>>>>>>>>>>> demented version of reason--unrestrained by God. They are
>>> united
>>>>>>>>>>>>> by their self-worshipping world view.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It should be noted that the carefully staged “anger’ from the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Islamic world does not condemn Benedict’s characterization of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Islam as a religion where God’s “will is not bound up with any
>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> our categories, even that of rationality...(The Islamic) God
> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not bound even by his own word….” This is not seen as an
>>> insult.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Islam embraces this description. In offering this description
>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Islam, Benedict refers to the views of leading modern French
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Islamist R. Arnaldez as discussed in the writings of Professor
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Theodore Khoury of Munster.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Likewise the secularists express no dismay at the pope’s
>>>>>>>>>>>>> characterization of a secularist as: “(A) subject (who) then
>>>>>>>>>>>>> decides, on the basis of his experiences, what he considers
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tenable in matters of religion, and the subjective ‘conscience
> ’
>>>>>>>>>>>>> becomes the sole arbiter of what is ethical.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Benedict asserts that without reason, or without God, there
> can
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be no modern system of morality. He explains, “In this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> way…ethics and religion lose their power to create a community
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and become (instead) a completely personal matter.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Both Islamist and secularist seek to break God and reason
> apart.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Each claims superiority over the Christian West. They believe
>>>>>>>>>>>>> absolute moral license makes them powerful. As globalization
>>>>>>>>>>>>> carries the Western tradition of reason throughout the world,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> both are in decline.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where the force of reason is defeated, Islamist and secularist
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will meet in combat, just as Hitler’s fascists broke their
> pact
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the Soviet Union, invading in June, 1941 after the
> collapse
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the allied forces on the western front.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What the Islamists and the New York Times both fear is having
> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reply to the Pope’s key point, borrowed from the Byzantine
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Emperor: “‘Not to act reasonably, not to act with logos (word
>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reason) is contrary to the nature of God,’.… It is to this
>>> great
>>>>>>>>>>>>> logos, to this breadth of reason, that we invite our partners
> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the dialogue of cultures.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Their fear of reason can only lead the world to disaster.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>
>Like I said before, that particular screen flashes by almost subliminally.
I had great success today with one EDS card, trying it in one PCI slot at a
time, all four PCI slots, no problems. I'll throw all four in there and see
what happens. I'll check the msinfo thingie befoe I boot up Paris. It will
tell me if IRQs are shared, right?
Jimmy
"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:4510657c@linux...
>
> During boot up does your bios show you what IRQ's it is assigning to your
> card? It might say "multimedia device" or something like that. There's
> no routine, you can put as many eds cards in as long as EVERY slot you put
> them in is not shared with other devices. If the slot is shared with
stuff
> like onboard audio, usb etc turn them off in the bios to free the slot
from
> IRQ conflicts if you will be using that slot.
>
> If you can see irq info on bootup you can try each slot and see what comes
> up as shared. Also, run msinfo32.exe from Start / Run and see what IRQs
> are doing what under Hardware.
>
> It's all about the god damn irqs !!!
>
> "Uptown Jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >I have a one-card system going smoothly, with the EDS card in slot 3 of
> 4.
> >Still unable to get through to the Asus people about IRQs, still trying.
> >
> >Today I will try the one EDS card in the other three slots, one by one.
> If
> >things go well in each slot, can I just throw all four of my EDS cards in
> >their at once (I still have the four of them linked together with little
> EDS
> >cables, just the same as I pulled them out), or is there some special
> >routine I have to follow? The manual doesn't make utter sense to me on
this
> >point, somehow...
> >
> >Jimmy
> >
> >
>So...you're blaming the situation in Iraq on Bill Clinton? Is that right?
Cuz that seems absurd to me.
Just sayin'.
Jimmy
"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
news:4510721c@linux...
> >But again, merely pointing fingers backwards
> >in no way excuses the mistakes and failures of the current government.
>
> Our situation is directly related to the fact that our leaders based their
> decisions on disinformation that was a result of the policies of the
Clinton
> administration. I'm not pointing the finger backwards for any other reason
> than I feel it is important to keep this in mind lest we elect the same
> misguided souls with the same naieve and misguided foriegn policy ideas to
> office once again and end up in an even bigger mess.........and
yes.......it
> could be much bigger if the liberals take control of the national
> legislature.......much less, god forbid, having another Clinton in the
white
> House.
>
>
> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:451035a7@linu
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| Re: OT:movie on 911-youve got to see this [message #71522 is a reply to message #71519] |
Mon, 21 August 2006 00:14 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
t;>>> the USA. Not gonna happen. We're far more sectarian than, say,
> Iraq.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Responsible leadership is needed in the world to calm extremist
> > >>>>>> tendencies on all sides and help rational people who are trying
to
> > > get
> > >>>>>> by in worsening times. At the same time we need to be, and are
> > >>>>>> attempting to be, vigilant against any self righteous group with
> > >>>>>> fantasies of violence in the USA.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Any rush to some sort of "holy war" is irrational. There is
nothing
> > >>> holy
> > >>>>>> about war.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Cheers,
> > >>>>>> -Jamie
> > >>>>>> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> DJ wrote:
> > >>>>>>> I haven't seen us react with irrationality.............yet. Al
> > > Quaeda
> > >>>>> just
> > >>>>>>> came out with an ultimatim stating that it's full on war now and
> the
> > >>>>> west
> > >>>>>>> will be destroyed. The only way to save ourselves is to convert
to
> > >>>>> Islam. So
> > >>>>>>> where to you draw the line between irrationality and self
defense?
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
> > >>> news:450ee7ef@linux...
> > >>>>>>>> Let's keep from reacting to irrationality with irrationality of
> our
> > >>>>> own.
> > >>>>>>>> There's a lot of fear mongering. Chicken Little is back.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Cheers,
> > >>>>>>>> -Jamie
> > >>>>>>>> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> DJ wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>> It doesn't matter at all whether this was the Pope. The bottom
> > > line
> > >>> is
> > >>>>>>> that
> > >>>>>>>>> it is rationality as opposed to irrationality.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
> > >>>>> news:450ec970@linux...
> > >>>>>>>>>> The Catholic church doesn't speak for Christianity. Certainly
> not
> > >>> for
> > >>>>>>>>>> Lutherans, and for good reason.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> A Pope criticizing other religions (even other Christian
sects,
> > >>> even
> > >>>>>>>>>> other Catholics) is nothing new. Certainly much harsher
things
> > > have
> > >>>>>>> been
> > >>>>>>>>>> said about Islam by some (not all) extreme fundamentalist
> > >>> Christians.
> > >>>>>>>>>> And certainly much harsher things have been said by certain
> > >>> extremist
> > >>>>>>>>>> Islamists about Christianity. The more extremist of both
camps
> > > seem
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>>>> be spoiling to relive the crusades. With some of the more
power
> > >>>>> hungry
> > >>>>>>>>>> ready to endanger civilization by attempting to incite
> religious
> > >>> wars
> > >>>>>>>>>> for their own questionable ends.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> It's a vast generalization to say the "the left" or
> "secularists"
> > >>> or
> > >>>>>>>>>> even "Christians" are demanding an apology from the Pope. I
> think
> > > a
> > >>>>>>>>>> whole lot of people think the Pope can say whatever he wants.
> It
> > >>>>>>> doesn't
> > >>>>>>>>>> matter to most non-Catholics in the USA and in reality, Papal
> > >>>>>>>>>> declarations are ignored by a fair number of Catholics here,
> too.
> > >>>>>>>>>> Obviously some Moslems are upset in some places, but how deep
> > > does
> > >>>>> that
> > >>>>>>>>>> go? When black churches were burning in the USA, it would
have
> > > been
> > >>>>> an
> > >>>>>>>>>> exaggeration to blame everyone in the USA for that.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> The fear of reason extends to the Catholic church which only
> very
> > >>>>>>>>>> recently apologized for the oppression of Galileo. The church
> > > hung
> > >>> on
> > >>>>>>>>>> tenaciously to the dogma of an earth-centered view of the
> > > universe
> > >>>>>>> while
> > >>>>>>>>>> denying the heliocentric theory of Copernicus, which
describes
> > > the
> > >>>>>>>>>> actual way the solar system works.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> It also extends to a few Christian sects who, feeling
similarly
> > >>>>>>>>>> insecure, tenaciously cling to the notion that the earth is
> only
> > >>>>> about
> > >>>>>>>>>> 6,000 years old, by virtue of the biblical interpretations
and
> > >>> clever
> > >>>>>>>>>> (at the time) calculations of an Irish Bishop several
centuries
> > >>> ago,
> > >>>>>>> and
> > >>>>>>>>>> in the face of solid current scientific evidence to the
> contrary.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> The fear of reason extends to some (not all) Christian
churches
> > >>> who,
> > >>>>>>>>>> feeling similarly insecure, deny the solid and ever-mounting
> > >>> evidence
> > >>>>>>> of
> > >>>>>>>>>> evolution, responding with dogma in psuedo-scientific
clothing,
> > > and
> > >>>>> who
> > >>>>>>>>>> seek to water down scientific education in the USA.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> The fear of reason extends to power hungry industries who pay
> big
> > >>>>> bucks
> > >>>>>>>>>> to spread denial about global warming for short term gain.
Who
> > > push
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>>>> control oil in the middle east with force. With our guns
> blazing,
> > >>> our
> > >>>>>>>>>> soldiers dying and our debt rising astronomically. And who
> > >>> sometimes
> > >>>>>>>>>> hide behind Christianity to do so.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> The fear of reason extends to some neoconservatives who find
> ways
> > >>> to
> > >>>>>>>>>> pretend that everyone is aligning against Christianity. And
in
> > >>>>>>> spreading
> > >>>>>>>>>> this fear attempt to incite Christians to vote to keep them
in
> > >>> power.
> > >>>>>>>>>> And in so pandering, help to continue the denial of reason
and
> > > the
> > >>>>>>> focus
> > >>>>>>>>>> on the use of force.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Not that I'll change your mind, DC, so go ahead and declare
> > >>> victory.
> > >>>>>>> ;^)
> > >>>>>>>>>> Have a great week!
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
> > >>>>>>>>>> -Jamie
> > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> DC wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>> I thought this was worth reading if any of you are
interested.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Have a great Monday!
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >
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| Re: OT:movie on 911-youve got to see this [message #71523 is a reply to message #71496] |
Mon, 21 August 2006 00:59 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
; >>>>>>>>>>> The Unholy Alliance Rolls Over the Pope
> > >>>>>>>>>>> By Andrew Walden
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> In what has suddenly been made into a highly controversial
> > >>>>>>>>>>> speech, the day after September 11, at Bavaria's University
of
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Regensberg, Pope Benedict describes Christian belief in a
God
> > >>>>>>>>>>> whose words and acts are bound by reason, truth and the law
of
> > >>>>>>>>>>> non-contradiction. Benedict contrasts this with Islamic
> belief
> > >>>>>>>>>>> in a God not bound by anything-including his own words.
> > > Benedict
> > >>>>>>>>>>> further contrasts Christian belief with that of secular
> > > humanists
> > >>>>>>>>>>> who see reason as being completely unbound of God.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> In response, both Islamists and secularists have demanded
the
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Pope apologize. Benedict's speech is a work of enlightened
> > >>>>>>>>>>> genius. He has clearly laid out the differences between
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Christian culture and Islamic culture and the basis of the
> clash
> > >>>>>>>>>>> of civilizations we now experience as the War on Terror. His
> > >>>>>>>>>>> analysis also explains the underlying cause of the alliance
> > >>>>>>>>>>> between the western Left and the Islamofascist Right.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Islamist reaction focuses on one sentence in the speech.
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Reaching back to 1391, Benedict quotes Byzantine Emperor
> Manuel
> > >>>>>>>>>>> II: "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and
> there
> > >>>>>>>>>>> you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his
> command
> > >>>>>>>>>>> to spread by the sword the faith he preached."
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Four days later, according to AP: "Pakistan's legislature
> > >>>>>>>>>>> unanimously condemned Pope Benedict XVI. Lebanon's top
Shiite
> > >>>>>>>>>>> cleric demanded an apology. And in Turkey, the ruling party
> > >>>>>>>>>>> likened the pontiff to Hitler and Mussolini and accused him
of
> > >>>>>>>>>>> reviving the mentality of the Crusades.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> "Across the Islamic world Friday, Benedict's remarks on
Islam
> > > and
> > >>>>>>>>>>> jihad in a speech in Germany unleashed a torrent of rage
that
> > >>>>>>>>>>> many fear could burst into violent protests like those that
> > >>>>>>>>>>> followed publication of caricatures of the Prophet
Muhammad."
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Reuters quoted other sources expressing fears for the Pope's
> > >>>>>>>>>>> safety and even fear of an attack on Vatican City.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> The Islamist reaction proves Manuel II's 600-year-old point.
> > > The
> > >>>>>>>>>>> reaction is not one of anger but a calculated attempt to
force
> > >>>>>>>>>>> the Pope to parrot the PC line on Islam. Since Islam need
not
> be
> > >>>>>>>>>>> internally consistent and it is not bound by reason, it's
only
> > >>>>>>>>>>> objective can be to assert the power of a God who is so
> > >>>>>>>>>>> transcendent that He is not bound by anything. If man is
> created
> > >>>>>>>>>>> in God's image then by extension Islamic man is not bound by
> > >>>>>>>>>>> anything. (This explains the predilection on the part of
some
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Muslims to lie.) Islamists are not responding to any
'offense'
> > > to
> > >>>>>>>>>>> their non-existent morality. They are asserting the only
> > >>>>>>>>>>> 'morality' they have-the will to power.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> "Will to Power" is a key element of Nietzsche 's
> > > philosophy-hence
> > >>>>>>>>>>> the root of the term, Islamofascist. Moreover the Western
> "Left'
> > >>>>>>>>>>> is today guided far more by Nietzsche existentialist thought
> > > than
> > >>>>>>>>>>> by Marxist thought-hence the alliance between the Western
> "Left"
> > >>>>>>>>>>> and the Islamofascist 'Right.'
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Reuters quotes an Indian Muslim leader doing precisely what
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Manuel II said they would: "Syed Ahmed Bukhari, the chief
> cleric
> > >>>>>>>>>>> of New Delhi's historic Jama Masjid, India's largest mosque,
> > >>>>>>>>>>> extolled Muslims to 'respond in a manner which forces the
Pope
> > > to
> > >>>>>>>>>>> apologize.'" Note they intend to use "force" not reason.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Reuters quotes an unnamed diplomat pointing out the Pope
was,
> > >>>>>>>>>>> "calling a spade a spade".
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> The secularist mouthpiece, New York Times,editorializes,
"Pope
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Benedict XVI has insulted Muslims.." This is false. The
Pope
> 's
> > >>>>>>>>>>> description of the Islamic God as being unbound by reason is
> not
> > >>>>>>>>>>> an insult, it is an Islamic article of faith. What Muslims
> and
> > >>>>>>>>>>> secularists fear is the Pope's decision to choose to enter
> > >>>>>>>>>>> dialogue asserting his belief in Christianity. How dare he
> not
> > >>>>>>>>>>> "apologize" for being a Christian? That is the so-called
> > >>>>>>>>>>> "insult."
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> One might "reasonably" ask when will Muslims "apologize" for
> > >>>>>>>>>>> being Muslim? But they are not bound by reason to the point
is
> > >>>>>>>>>>> lost on them.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Amazingly the Times continues: "Muslim leaders the world
over
> > >>>>>>>>>>> have demanded apologies. For many Muslims, holy war -
jihad -
> is
> > >>>>>>>>>>> a spiritual struggle, and not a call to violence." In
saying
> > >>>>>>>>>>> this, the Times implicitly recognizes the Islamists are
waging
> a
> > >>>>>>>>>>> propaganda jihad against the Pope and by extension against
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Christianity-and they explicitly endorse and join this
jihad.
> > >>>>>>>>>>> The Times is saying to Islamists, 'we can join your
'spiritual
> '
> > >>>>>>>>>>> jihad, but not your violent jihad.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> The Times editors are living in a fool's paradise. The
> > >>>>>>>>>>> "spiritual" non-violent jihad of propaganda is merely the
flip
> > >>>>>>>>>>> side of the violent jihad. Nowhere is that more clear than
in
> > >>>>>>>>>>> the Islamist reaction to the Pope.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> With the Pope scheduled to visit Turkey in November the
> > > Islamists
> > >>>>>>>>>>> are rejecting any apology from Vatican spokespersons and
> demand
> > >>>>>>>>>>> to hear from the Pope himself. This would place raging mobs
> of
> > >>>>>>>>>>> semi-literate Islamist thugs in the position of forcing the
> > >>>>>>>>>>> leader of Christendom to bow before them.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> In this demand for submission they are joined by the
> secularist
> > >>>>>>>>>>> mouthpiece. In its September 16 edition the Times
> > > editorializes:
> > >>>>>>>>>>> "He needs to offer a deep and persuasive apology." The
> > >>>>>>>>>>> secularists too seek the Pope's submission. Like the
> Islamists,
> > >>>>>>>>>>> the secularists are driven only by their will to power.
While
> > >>>>>>>>>>> the Islamists represent their demented version of
> > >>>>>>>>>>> God--unrestrained by reason, the secularists represent their
> > >>>>>>>>>>> demented version of reason--unrestrained by God. They are
> > > united
> > >>>>>>>>>>> by their self-worshipping world view.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> It should be noted that the carefully staged "anger' from
the
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Islamic world does not condemn Benedict's characterization
of
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Islam as a religion where God's "will is not bound up with
any
> > > of
> > >>>>>>>>>>> our categories, even that of rationality...(The Islamic) God
> is
> > >>>>>>>>>>> not bound even by his own word.." This is not seen as an
> > > insult.
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Islam embraces this description. In offering this
description
> > > of
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Islam, Benedict refers to the views of leading modern French
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Islamist R. Arnaldez as discussed in the writings of
Professor
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Theodore Khoury of Munster.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Likewise the secularists express no dismay at the pope's
> > >>>>>>>>>>> characterization of a secularist as: "(A) subject (who)
then
> > >>>>>>>>>>> decides, on the basis of his experiences, what he considers
> > >>>>>>>>>>> tenable in matters of religion, and the subjective
'conscience
> '
> > >>>>>>>>>>> becomes the sole arbiter of what is ethical."
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Benedict asserts that without reason, or without God, there
> can
> > >>>>>>>>>>> be no modern system of morality. He explains, "In this
> > >>>>>>>>>>> way.ethics and religion lose their power to create a
community
> > >>>>>>>>>>> and become (instead) a completely personal matter."
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Both Islamist and secularist seek to break God and reason
> apart.
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Each claims superiority over the Christian West. They
believe
> > >>>>>>>>>>> absolute moral license makes them powerful. As
globalization
> > >>>>>>>>>>> carries the Western tradition of reason throughout the
world,
> > >>>>>>>>>>> both are in decline.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Where the force of reason is defeated, Islamist and
secularist
> > >>>>>>>>>>> will meet in combat, just as Hitler's fascists broke their
> pact
> > >>>>>>>>>>> with the Soviet Union, invading in June, 1941 after the
> collapse
> > >>>>>>>>>>> of the allied forces on the western front.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> What the Islamists and the New York Times both fear is
having
> to
> > >>>>>>>>>>> reply to the Pope's key point, borrowed from the Byzantine
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Emperor: "'Not to act reasonably, not to act with logos
(word
> > > or
> > >>>>>>>>>>> reason) is contrary to the nature of God,'.. It is to this
> > > great
> > >>>>>>>>>>> logos, to this breadth of reason, that we invite our
partners
> in
> > >>>>>>>>>>> the dialogue of cultures."
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Their fear of reason can only lead the world to disaster.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>
> > >
> > >
>
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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DC,
I never thought of that?!!! It makes sense though.
Tom
"DC" <dc@spammersinLA.org> wrote in message news:45104da6$1@linux...
I had a Mesa MKII-C with a seperate vented box with an EVM12-L.
Yeoww! That thing was *loud*, and clean too. Good tone.
Most players don't know that a 1x12 cuts through a lot better
than a 4x12, all else being equal. If you just want a clear, =
powerful
lead tone, a single speaker just rules. If you want a huge sound, =
and
can live with a bit less clarity, then a 4x12 is the ticket.
DC
"Dubya Mark Wilson" <mark.xspam@avidrecording.com> wrote:
>I know this will probably be met with a lot of "you-oughta try's" but =
I
have=20
>been using 1x12's exclusively for 21 years. Morever, loaded with EV =
12-L
>Series II spkrs. Rated @ 300w, most players would run, not walk, =
from these
>for distortion of any kind. And while I can't really tell you how or =
why
I=20
>decided that these were my best option, they remain just that. Next =
to
a=20
>good FOH eng, these are the most significant components in my signal =
path.
>I've never looked back. Maybe because my 1x12's were custom built =
and based
>on an old Pacific (Michael Forest) design and employ high grade, slow =
>growth, light-but-dense Norwegien fir. I use just one primarily but =
when
>the stage is big enough and the players be fine, I switch the old =
50/50
to=20
>stereo and run the twin cabs about 20' apart, 10' away, pointing =
back, up
>and and slightly in and jump feet first into what one of my gig =
compadres
>calls "one big luxurious stereo sonic bathtub."
>
>W.
>
>"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote in message=20
>news:450a08d7@linux...
>> I'm looking at picking up a 4x12 to club gig with. Anybody got =
experience
>> to share with me about these models??
>> Is there 'really' a $1000 dollars worth of difference in tone from =
bottom
>> to top with them, is it mechanics (like say, casters and handles)?
>> I will be driving it with a 60wpc tube amp with a tube preamp front =
end.
>> I want the elusive 'brown sound' distortion and super clear =
cleans...
>> which the amp/preamp combo is certainly capable of giving me. It's =
the
>> cabs that suck on my current gear (2 unmatched 2x12's) - I wish to =
move
to=20
>> one stereo matched cab, and I'm not afraid to rewire it if that =
matters.
>> Many thanks in advance!
>>
>>
>> https://www.zzounds.com/item--MSHMG412A
>> $450.00 $279.95
>> Angled-front version.
>> Power: 120 watts
>> Impedance: 8 ohms
>> Speakers: 4 x 12 in. Marshall/Celestion custom-designed speakers =
(30W
>> each)
>> Dimensions (W x H x D): 26.4 x 26.4 x 14.0 in.
>>
>>
>> http://www.zzounds.com/item--MSH1960A
>> $1,150.00 $649.95
>> Angled-front version.
>> Black grille cloth
>> White piping
>> Black elephant grain vinyl
>> Speaker: 4 x 12 in. G12T-75
>> Power: 300 watt
>> Impedance: 4 or 16 ohms mono/8 ohms stereo
>> Dimensions: 760 x 830 x 360mm
>> Weight: 36.4 kg
>>
>>
>> http://www.zzounds.com/item--MSH1960AX
>> $1,500.00 $1,049.00
>> Angled front
>> Vintage-circa early 70's
>> Checkered cloth
>> White piping
>> Medium size white logo
>> Black Levant vinyl
>> Gold beading on Cab
>> Speakers: 4 Celestion G12 M-25w SPKR-00016
>> Power: 100 watts
>> Impedance: 16 ohm
>> Dimensions: 760 x 830 x 360 mm
>> Weight: 37.7 kg
>> Cover: COVR-00022 optional
>>
>>
>> http://www.zzounds.com/item--MSH1960AHW
>> $1,800.00 $1,200.00
>> Loaded with Celestion G12H-30 re-issue speakers.
>> To complement the 1959HW's visual and sonic majesty, Marshall =
offers the
>> 1960AHW (angled) 4x12 cabinet. It boasts basket weave fret cloth, =
metal
>> handles, "100" logos, and is loaded with Celestion's =
highly-acclaimed
>> G12H-30 re-issue speakers.
>>
>>
>>=20
>
>
I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>DC,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I never thought of that?!!! It =
makes sense=20
though.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"DC" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:dc@spammersinLA.org">dc@spammersinLA.org</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
href=3D"news:45104da6$1@linux">news:45104da6$1@linux</A>...</DIV><BR>I =
had a=20
Mesa MKII-C with a seperate vented box with an =
EVM12-L.<BR><BR>Yeoww! =20
That thing was *loud*, and clean too. Good =
tone.<BR><BR>Most=20
players don't know that a 1x12 cuts through a lot better<BR>than a =
4x12, all=20
else being equal. If you just want a clear, =
powerful<BR>lead tone,=20
a single speaker just rules. If you want a huge sound, =
and<BR>can=20
live with a bit less clarity, then a 4x12 is the=20
ticket.<BR><BR>DC<BR><BR>"Dubya Mark Wilson" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:mark.xspam@avidrecording.com">mark.xspam@avidrecording.com=
</A>>=20
wrote:<BR>>I know this will probably be met with a lot of =
"you-oughta=20
try's" but I<BR>have <BR>>been using 1x12's exclusively for 21 =
years. =20
Morever, loaded with EV 12-L<BR><BR>>Series II spkrs. Rated @ =
300w,=20
most players would run, not walk, from these<BR><BR>>for distortion =
of any=20
kind. And while I can't really tell you how or why<BR>I =
<BR>>decided=20
that these were my best option, they remain just that. Next =
to<BR>a=20
<BR>>good FOH eng, these are the most significant components in my =
signal=20
path.<BR><BR>>I've never looked back. Maybe because my 1x12's =
were=20
custom built and based<BR><BR>>on an old Pacific (Michael Forest) =
design=20
and employ high grade, slow <BR>>growth, light-but-dense Norwegien=20
fir. I use just one primarily but when<BR><BR>>the stage is =
big=20
enough and the players be fine, I switch the old 50/50<BR>to =
<BR>>stereo=20
and run the twin cabs about 20' apart, 10' away, pointing back,=20
up<BR><BR>>and and slightly in and jump feet first into what one of =
my gig=20
compadres<BR><BR>>calls "one big luxurious stereo sonic=20
bathtub."<BR>><BR>>W.<BR>><BR>> "Aaron Allen" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:know-spam@not_here.dude">know-spam@not_here.dude</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <BR>>news:450a08d7@linux...<BR>>> I'm looking at =
picking up a=20
4x12 to club gig with. Anybody got experience<BR><BR>>> to share =
with me=20
about these models??<BR>>> Is there 'really' a $1000 dollars =
worth of=20
difference in tone from bottom<BR><BR>>> to top with them, is it =
mechanics (like say, casters and handles)?<BR>>> I will be =
driving it=20
with a 60wpc tube amp with a tube preamp front end.<BR><BR>>> I =
want the=20
elusive 'brown sound' distortion and super clear =
cleans...<BR><BR>>>=20
which the amp/preamp combo is certainly capable of giving me. It's=20
the<BR><BR>>> cabs that suck on my current gear (2 unmatched =
2x12's) - I=20
wish to move<BR>to <BR>>> one stereo matched cab, and I'm not =
afraid to=20
rewire it if that matters.<BR>>> Many thanks in=20
advance!<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> <A=20
=
href=3D"https://www.zzounds.com/item--MSHMG412A">https://www.zzounds.com/=
item--MSHMG412A</A><BR>>>=20
$450.00 $279.95<BR>>> Angled-front=20
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT:movie on 911-you'vre got to see this [message #71527 is a reply to message #71511] |
Mon, 21 August 2006 02:00 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
r />
Power: 300 watt<BR>>> Impedance: 4 or 16 ohms mono/8 ohms=20
stereo<BR>>> Dimensions: 760 x 830 x 360mm<BR>>> Weight: =
36.4=20
kg<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> <A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.zzounds.com/item--MSH1960AX">http://www.zzounds.com/it=
em--MSH1960AX</A><BR>>>=20
$1,500.00 $1,049.00<BR>>> Angled=20
front<BR>>> Vintage-circa early 70's<BR>>> Checkered=20
cloth<BR>>> White piping<BR>>> Medium size white =
logo<BR>>>=20
Black Levant vinyl<BR>>> Gold beading on Cab<BR>>> =
Speakers: 4=20
Celestion G12 M-25w SPKR-00016<BR>>> Power: 100 =
watts<BR>>>=20
Impedance: 16 ohm<BR>>> Dimensions: 760 x 830 x 360 =
mm<BR>>>=20
Weight: 37.7 kg<BR>>> Cover: COVR-00022=20
optional<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> <A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.zzounds.com/item--MSH1960AHW">http://www.zzounds.com/i=
tem--MSH1960AHW</A><BR>>>=20
$1,800.00 $1,200.00<BR>>> Loaded with =
Celestion=20
G12H-30 re-issue speakers.<BR>>> To complement the 1959HW's =
visual and=20
sonic majesty, Marshall offers the<BR><BR>>> 1960AHW (angled) =
4x12=20
cabinet. It boasts basket weave fret cloth, metal<BR><BR>>> =
handles,=20
"100" logos, and is loaded with Celestion's =
highly-acclaimed<BR><BR>>>=20
G12H-30 re-issue speakers.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>=20
<BR>><BR>><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR><BR>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, =
and=20
you?<BR><A=20
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT:movie on 911-youve got to see this [message #71533 is a reply to message #71523] |
Mon, 21 August 2006 07:05 |
DC
Messages: 722
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
If she want quality
>>>>>> Mic-Pres and AD/DA, etc then the RME Fireface 400.
>>>>>> Also the Mackie Spike or Onyx 400f might be a good option sense they
>>>>>> come with the Tracktion software already.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If she is only recording 2 tracks or so then there is no need for
an
>>>>>> external drive. It would only be needed fore backs ups but the projects
>>>>>> would more than likely be small enough to easily fit on DVDRW.
>>>>>> Using an internal 80 or 100 gig drive on the PC would easily allow
>for
>>>>>> 32 tracks of 24/48 at 3 ms buffer on the RME Fireface 400. If you
raise
>>>>>> the buffer then 48 tracks should be no problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> She generally won't be
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> recording more than two tracks at a time, four absolute max. I don't
>>>>> think
>>>>>
>>>>>>> she'd be mixing more than eight tracks at any one time either. I
>will
>>>>>>> certainly be surfing myself to see what's out there, but I'd take
>you
>>>>> folk's
>>>>>
>>>>>>> recommendations, even over say... Mr. Spock's --although he did some
>>>>> pretty
>>>>>
>>>>>>> nifty stuff analyzing those whale sounds.
>>>>>>> Thank you, thank you.
>>>>>>> MR
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> The current laptops well use the new Core 2 Duo CPUs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> http://www.adkproaudio.com/systems/saved_system.cfm?systemid =103&saved_id=89
>>>>> 35
>>>>>
>>>>>> :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Chris Ludwig
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ADK Pro Audio
>>>>>> (859) 635-5762
>>>>>> www.adkproaudio.com
>>>>>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Chris Ludwig
>>>> ADK
>>>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>>>> www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>>>> (859) 635-5762
>>>
>>>
>>
>>--
>>Chris Ludwig
>>
>>ADK Pro Audio
>>(859) 635-5762
>>www.adkproaudio.com
>>chrisl@adkproaudio.com
>I have a silverface Fender Vibrochamp with a Matchless DC-30
stuffed in it. It has a Celestion 10" speaker in it.
I used to hang out with my friend's blues band in San Diego and play
sometimes, and that amp would make every note as clear in the
back of the room as on stage. Just amazing. Yes, it's a good amp,
but it's also the clarity of the single speaker.
I have one of Mark Sampson's new Star amps, and when I got it,
he and I were yakking for a while, and he absolutely agrees that
a single speaker is the key to absolute clarity and being clearly
heard in the back of the room.
Of course, I still love the 4x12's too... heh heh
Thank God for a patient wife!
DC
"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>DC,
>I never thought of that?!!! It makes sense though.
>Tom
>
>
>
> "DC" <dc@spammersinLA.org> wrote in message news:45104da6$1@linux...
>
> I had a Mesa MKII-C with a seperate vented box with an EVM12-L.
>
> Yeoww! That thing was *loud*, and clean too. Good tone.
>
> Most players don't know that a 1x12 cuts through a lot better
> than a 4x12, all else being equal. If you just want a clear, =
>powerful
> lead tone, a single speaker just rules. If you want a huge sound, =
>and
> can live with a bit less clarity, then a 4x12 is the ticket.
>
> DC
>
> "Dubya Mark Wilson" <mark.xspam@avidrecording.com> wrote:
> >I know this will probably be met with a lot of "you-oughta try's" but
=
>I
> have=20
> >been usi
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT:movie on 911-youve got to see this [message #71540 is a reply to message #71523] |
Mon, 21 August 2006 08:59 |
Deej [1]
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
n.
Sorry I didn't mention that before. Or alternately you could point a video
cam at it.
AA
"Uptown Jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:45107fd4$1@linux...
> Like I said before, that particular screen flashes by almost subliminally.
>
> I had great success today with one EDS card, trying it in one PCI slot at
> a
> time, all four PCI slots, no problems. I'll throw all four in there and
> see
> what happens. I'll check the msinfo thingie befoe I boot up Paris. It will
> tell me if IRQs are shared, right?
>
> Jimmy
>
> "John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:4510657c@linux...
>>
>> During boot up does your bios show you what IRQ's it is assigning to your
>> card? It might say "multimedia device" or something like that. There's
>> no routine, you can put as many eds cards in as long as EVERY slot you
>> put
>> them in is not shared with other devices. If the slot is shared with
> stuff
>> like onboard audio, usb etc turn them off in the bios to free the slot
> from
>> IRQ conflicts if you will be using that slot.
>>
>> If you can see irq info on bootup you can try each slot and see what
>> comes
>> up as shared. Also, run msinfo32.exe from Start / Run and see what IRQs
>> are doing what under Hardware.
>>
>> It's all about the god damn irqs !!!
>>
>> "Uptown Jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> >I have a one-card system going smoothly, with the EDS card in slot 3 of
>> 4.
>> >Still unable to get through to the Asus people about IRQs, still trying.
>> >
>> >Today I will try the one EDS card in the other three slots, one by one.
>> If
>> >things go well in each slot, can I just throw all four of my EDS cards
>> >in
>> >their at once (I still have the four of them linked together with little
>> EDS
>> >cables, just the same as I pulled them out), or is there some special
>> >routine I have to follow? The manual doesn't make utter sense to me on
> this
>> >point, somehow...
>> >
>> >Jimmy
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Tom, do you find that the Paris EQ is a little, er... tubby sounding in =
mastering?
AA
"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote in message =
news:450f9d86@linux...
Gene and all others with comments,
Is the Neve 33609 even worth the bother?
I want to use the $50 coupon on a plug. I'm strongly considering the =
Precision Multiband.
If it sounds as good as it looks and functions as simply as it appears =
I think it could make
a difference in my lower end mastering projects (the only ones I do). =
Now I'm using Paris EQ,=20
NoLimit, Paris Comp, but no real pristine compression. The Waves =
multiband is average at best=20
to my ear. That's all I've got around here in higher end software. =
I've delved into the Waves Ren Comp=20
a few times too. It's okay. The Sakis method is too involved for my =
limited mastering hours. I typically
have to get a CD done in less than four hours to make it worth the =
client's/my while.
For $200 or less is there a better choice for an easy to use multiband =
comp? Otherwise I might spring for the=20
1073 but I have two Neve pres here in hardware form that I track with =
alot.
Is the UAD 140 way better than the SIR plates? If not I'll pass on =
that too.
I'm thinking the Cambridge EQ (just got that and like it) with the =
Precision Multiband Comp would be a=20
fine addition to a sweeter sounding master and even individual tracks =
here and there. =20
All opinions welcome!
Tom
"gene Lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote in message =
news:450f504d$1@linux...
"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>DJ,
>Have you had a chance to hear it yet?
>Tom
Not DJ but...
I had it for a few hours before my temp license timed out =
prematurely. Sounds
nice and fairly close to the real thing. I did a short comparison to =
my Portico5043.
The UAD has a similar flavor and controls the dynamics in a very =
similar
way, but it is missing the creamy sound of the hardware - And I =
hate people
that describe hardware as creamy :=AC)=20
Since the plug requires an entire card or it must be rendered, I =
don't think
I will get it. I might as well render the real thing.
Gene
I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
------=_NextPart_000_0042_01C6DC26.7F76D500
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.5296.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom, do you find that the Paris EQ is a =
little,=20
er... tubby sounding in mastering?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>AA</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Tom Bruhl" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>> wrote =
in message=20
<A href=3D"news:450f9d86@linux">news:450f9d86@linux</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Gene and all others with =
comments,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Is the Neve 33609 even worth the=20
bother?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I want to use the $50 coupon on a =
plug. I'm=20
strongly considering the Precision Multiband.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If it sounds as good as it looks and =
functions as=20
simply as it appears I think it could make</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>a difference in my lower end =
mastering projects=20
(the only ones I do). Now I'm using Paris EQ, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>NoLimit, Paris Comp, </FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>but no real pristine compression. The Waves multiband =
is average=20
at best </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>to my ear. That's all I've got =
around here=20
in higher end software. I've delved </FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>into=20
the Waves Ren Comp </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>a few times too. It's =
okay. The Sakis=20
method is too involved for my limited mastering hours. I=20
typically</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>have to get a CD done in less than =
four hours to=20
make it worth the client's/my while.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>For $200 or less is there a =
better choice=20
for an easy to use multiband comp? Otherwise I might spring for =
the=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>1073 but I have two Neve </FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>pres here in hardware form that I track with =
alot.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Is the UAD 140 way better than the =
SIR=20
plates? If not I'll pass on that too.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm thinking the Cambridge EQ (just =
got that and=20
like it) with the Precision Multiband Comp would be a </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>fine addition to a </FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>sweeter sounding master and even individual tracks here and=20
there. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>All opinions welcome!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"gene Lennon" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com">glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com</A>&g=
t;=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:450f504d$1@linux">news:450f504d$1@linux</A>...</DIV><BR>"Tom=
=20
Bruhl" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>>=20
wrote:<BR>><BR>><BR>>DJ,<BR>>Have you had a chance to =
hear it=20
yet?<BR>>Tom<BR><BR>Not DJ but...<BR><BR>I had it for a few hours =
before=20
my temp license timed out prematurely. Sounds<BR>nice and fairly =
close to=20
the real thing. I did a short comparison to my Portico5043.<BR>The =
UAD has a=20
similar flavor and controls the dynamics in a very similar<BR>way, =
but it is=20
missing the creamy sound of the hardware - And I hate =
people<BR>that=20
describe hardware as creamy :=AC) <BR>Since the plug requires an =
entire card=20
or it must be rendered, I don't think<BR>I will get it. I might as =
well=20
render the real thing.<BR>Gene<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR><BR>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, =
and=20
you?<BR><A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html">http://www.polesoft.com/refer=
..html</A> </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE ></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0042_01C6DC26.7F76D500--It essentially splits the signal into two paths.. one for the detector and
one that is the audio throughput. By NOT delaying the detector and delaying
the audio by, let's say, 1 mS the detector actually gets a 1 mS 'lookahead'
time to better process the signal/transients.
The price is that now your audio will be 1 mS later than it was. This can be
a real bite in the rear on multimic'd stuff like drum kits unless you
intentionally delay the other tracks by the same amount (and the next step
is to move them all back/to the left 1mS in the editor).
AA
"Uptown Jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:45108d2a@linux...
>I never understood lookahead. Read the explanations, felt ignernt.
>
> Even NoLimit? No real latency?
>
> Jimmy
>
>
> "chucduffy" <c@c.om> wrote in message news:4510872c$1@linux...
>>
>> Depending on lookahead of course :-)
>>
>> "Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >Yeah, 2 samples of latency (at 44.1) for eds plugs
>> >Rod
>> >Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>> >>Hi Jimmy,
>> >>As far as I've ever seen the EDS plugins have little or no latency as
>> >>they exist in the hardware just like on a Pro Tools HD system.
>> >>Chris
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Uptown Jimmy wrote:
>> >>> Wait a minute: Paris atuo-compenstaes for EDS plugins?!
>> >>>
>> >>> I'm very surprised, if true.
>> >>>
>> >>> Jimmy
>> >>>
>> >>> "Chris Ludwig" <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote in message
>> >>> news:450ff34f$1@linux...
>> >>>> HI,
>> >>>> It only matters under 2 scenarios.
>> >>>> 1. Playing VST INstruments in real time.
>> >>>> 2. Processing native effects on a live input.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Otherwise you can set the buffer high to free up resources.
>> >>>> When using Direct monitoring the software monitor inputs at the
> hardware
>> >>>> level so no latency.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ADC becomes more useful in the mixing stage Cubase will keep all the
>> >>>> plug ins including external plug ins sample accurate. Paris will do
>> this
>> >>>> only with its EDS effects not with native. Actually most programs
> didn't
>> >>>> only had this type of compensation on inserts only forever.
> Steinberg
>> >>>> were the first to figure out how to do it across the whole path. I
> wish
>> >>>> Steinberg would stop with all the innovation stuff so I wouldn't
>> >>>> have
>> >to
>> >>>> keep track of all the new features the competitors have in their
>> >>>> programs. :0
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Chris
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Uptown Jimmy wrote:
>> >>>>> What do buffer and latency matter for anymore, what with ADC on
> native
>> >>>>> systems?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I seriously have no idea, being a Paris junkie since the beginning.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Jimmy
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> "Chris Ludwig" <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote in message
>> >>>>> news:450f2d33@linux...
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> HI Mike,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Mike R. wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Hope it's ok to post this question here.
>> >>>>>>> A friend of mine is going to buy a new Mac laptop. She is
>> >>>>>>> running
>> >>>>> Cubase SE
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>> on her current
>> >>>>>> No Universal Binary yet for Cubase not till 4.0 comes out so I
> don't
>> >>>>>> think it will work if it is a Intel based one.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 'pute and wants a bigger faster, but portable, machine.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I'm
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> most interested in your thoughts regarding both an audio card and
>> >what
>> >>>>> sort
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>> of external audio drive she could/should use.
>> >>>>>> On a budget the Presonus Firebox is a great unit. If she want
> quality
>> >>>>>> Mic-Pres and AD/DA, etc then the RME Fireface 400.
>> >>>>>> Also the Mackie Spike or Onyx 400f might be a good option sense
> they
>> >>>>>> come with the Tracktion software already.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> If she is only recording 2 tracks or so then there is no need for
>> an
>> >>>>>> external drive. It would only be needed fore backs ups but the
> projects
>> >>>>>> would more than likely be small enough to easily fit on DVDRW.
>> >>>>>> Using an internal 80 or 100 gig drive on the PC would easily allow
>> >for
>> >>>>>> 32 tracks of 24/48 at 3 ms buffer on the RME Fireface 400. If you
>> raise
>> >>>>>> the buffer then 48 tracks should be no problem.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> She generally won't be
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> recording more than two tracks at a time, four absolute max. I
> don't
>> >>>>> think
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>> she'd be mixing more than eight tracks at any one time either. I
>> >will
>> >>>>>>> certainly be surfing myself to see what's out there, but I'd take
>> >you
>> >>>>> folk's
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>> recommendations, even over say... Mr. Spock's --although he did
> some
>> >>>>> pretty
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>> nifty stuff analyzing those whale sounds.
>> >>>>>>> Thank you, thank you.
>> >>>>>>> MR
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> The current laptops well use the new Core 2 Duo CPUs.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>
> http://www.adkproaudio.com/systems/saved_system.cfm?systemid =103&saved_id=89
>> >>>>> 35
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> :)
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Chris
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> --
>> >>>>>> Chris Ludwig
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> ADK Pro Audio
>> >>>>>> (859) 635-5762
>> >>>>>> www.adkproaudio.com
>> >>>>>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Chris Ludwig
>> >>>> ADK
>> >>>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>> >>>> www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>> >>>> (859) 635-5762
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>--
>> >>Chris Ludwig
>> >>
>> >>ADK Pro Audio
>> >>(859) 635-5762
>> >>www.adkproaudio.com
>> >>chrisl@adkproaudio.com
>> >
>>
>
>no dude, it actually makes a load of sense when presented that way. I 'HATE"
the ampeg 8-10's for bass. It takes the thing something like 25ft to stop
phasing on itself. The bass player standing 5 ft in front of it don't get
that, ever, and it's plow-the-front-row time every time. In this context, I
completely get what you're saying to me.
AA
"Dubya Mark Wilson" <mark.xspam@avidrecording.com> wrote in message
news:45101f97$1@linux...
>I know this will probably be met with a lot of "you-oughta try's" but I
>have been using 1x12's exclusively for 21 years. Morever, loaded with EV
>12-L Series II spkrs. Rated @ 300w, most players would run, not walk, from
>these for distortion of any kind. And while I can't really tell you how or
>why I decided that these were my best option, they remain just that. Next
>to a good FOH eng, these are the most significant components in my signal
>path. I've never looked back. Maybe because my 1x12's were custom built
>and based on an old Pacific (Michael Forest) design and employ high grade,
>slow growth, light-but-dense Norwegien fir. I use just one primarily but
>when the stage is big enough and the players be fine, I switch the old
>50/50 to stereo and run the twin cabs about 20' apart, 10' away, pointing
>back, up and and slightly in and jump feet first into what one of my gig
>compadres calls "one big luxurious stereo sonic bathtub."
>
> W.
>
> "Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote in message
> news:450a08d7@linux...
>> I'm looking at picking up a 4x12 to club gig with. Anybody got experience
>> to share with me about these models??
>> Is there 'really' a $1000 dollars worth of difference in tone from bottom
>> to top with them, is it mechanics (like say, casters and handles)?
>> I will be driving it with a 60wpc tube amp with a tube preamp front end.
>> I want the elusive 'brown sound' distortion and super clear cleans...
>> which the amp/preamp combo is certainly capable of giving me. It's the
>> cabs that suck on my current gear (2 unmatched 2x12's) - I wish to move
>> to one stereo matched cab, and I'm not afraid to rewire it if that
>> matters.
>> Many thanks in advance!
>>
>>
>> https://www.zzounds.com/item--MSHMG412A
>> $450.00 $279.95
>> Angled-front version.
>> Power: 120 watts
>> Impedance: 8 ohms
>> Speakers: 4 x 12 in. Marshall/Celestion custom-designed speakers (30W
>> each)
>> Dimensions (W x H x D): 26.4 x 26.4 x 14.0 in.
>>
>>
>> http://www.zzounds.com/item--MSH1960A
>> $1,150.00 $649.95
>> Angled-front version.
>> Black grille cloth
>> White piping
>> Black elephant grain vinyl
>> Speaker: 4 x 12 in. G12T-75
>> Power: 300 watt
>> Impedance: 4 or 16 ohms mono/8 ohms stereo
>> Dimensions: 760 x 830 x 360mm
>> Weight: 36.4 kg
>>
>>
>> http://www.zzounds.com/item--MSH1960AX
>> $1,500.00 $1,049.00
>> Angled front
>> Vintage-circa early 70's
>> Checkered cloth
>> White piping
>> Medium size white logo
>> Black Levant vinyl
>> Gold beading on Cab
>> Speakers: 4 Celestion G12 M-25w SPKR-00016
>> Power: 100 watts
>> Impedance: 16 ohm
>> Dimensions: 760 x 830 x 360 mm
>> Weight: 37.7 kg
>> Cover: COVR-00022 optional
>>
>>
>> http://www.zzounds.com/item--MSH1960AHW
>> $1,800.00 $1,200.00
>> Loaded with Celestion G12H-30 re-issue speakers.
>> To complement the 1959HW's visual and sonic majesty, Marshall offers the
>> 1960AHW (angled) 4x12 cabinet. It boasts basket weave fret cloth, metal
>> handles, "100" logos, and is loaded with Celestion's highly-acclaimed
>> G12H-30 re-issue speakers.
>>
>>
>>
>
>here's how I understand it...
a. EDS plugs have a 1 to 2 sample latency when lookahead is set to zero.
b. unfortunately there is a bug in nolimit that causes unpredictable results
when 0 lookahead is used.
c. Lookahead on any EDS plug is essentially a delay line, and causes latency
exactly equal (well not exactly, move on to d for more info) to the lookahead
value. If you use a lookahead of 1 ms it will cause a latency of (what should
be) 44 samples.
d. The UI control code in paris is geeked and the math is hardwired to a
48K sample rate instead of 44.1. This means that any math calculations based
on UI controls are off. A lookahead of 1ms in a project based on 44.1 should
cause a latency of 44 samples, but causes a latency of 48.
e. The audio from the lookahead delay line feeds the control channel for
a gate/compressor/limiter.
the plug is looking out into the delayed signal (a leetle bit further ahead),
but acting on the non-delayed signal, giving it the appearance of "knowing"
what's going to happen in terms of transients, but at the cost of latency.
Chuck
"Uptown Jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>I never understood lookahead. Read the explanations, felt ignernt.
>
>Even NoLimit? No real latency?
>
>Jimmy
>
>
>"chucduffy" <c@c.om> wrote in message news:4510872c$1@linux...
>>
>> Depending on lookahead of course :-)
>>
>> "Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >Yeah, 2 samples of latency (at 44.1) for eds plugs
>> >Rod
>> >Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>> >>Hi Jimmy,
>> >>As far as I've ever seen the EDS plugins have little or no latency as
>> >>they exist in the hardware just like on a Pro Tools HD system.
>> >>Chris
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Uptown Jimmy wrote:
>> >>> Wait a minute: Paris atuo-compenstaes for EDS plugins?!
>> >>>
>> >>> I'm very surprised, if true.
>> >>>
>> >>> Jimmy
>> >>>
>> >>> "Chris Ludwig" <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote in message
>> >>> news:450ff34f$1@linux...
>> >>>> HI,
>> >>>> It only matters under 2 scenarios.
>> >>>> 1. Playing VST INstruments in real time.
>> >>>> 2. Processing native effects on a live input.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Otherwise you can set the buffer high to free up resources.
>> >>>> When using Direct monitoring the software monitor inputs at the
>hardware
>> >>>> level so no latency.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ADC becomes more useful in the mixing stage Cubase will keep all
the
>> >>>> plug ins including external plug ins sample accurate. Paris will
do
>> this
>> >>>> only with its EDS effects not with native. Actually most programs
>didn't
>> >>>> only had this type of compensation on inserts only forever.
>S
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT:movie on 911-youve got to see this [message #71543 is a reply to message #71522] |
Mon, 21 August 2006 09:27 |
Deej [1]
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> ADK Pro Audio
>> >>>>>> (859) 635-5762
>> >>>>>> www.adkproaudio.com
>> >>>>>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Chris Ludwig
>> >>>> ADK
>> >>>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>> >>>> www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>> >>>> (859) 635-5762
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>--
>> >>Chris Ludwig
>> >>
>> >>ADK Pro Audio
>> >>(859) 635-5762
>> >>www.adkproaudio.com
>> >>chrisl@adkproaudio.com
>> >
>>
>
>Cool, I signed up.
AA
"Dubya Mark Wilson" <mark.xspam@avidrecording.com> wrote in message
news:451010ff$1@linux...
> http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/200 3265044_soapbox19.html
>
> http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/200 3265047_warnertube19.html
>
> http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/200 3265043_napster19.html
>
> Dubzie
>
>
>Actually, I wasn't joking J.... to get a decent light show laser, I'd have
to buy a freekin variance. I think I'm smart enough to not be pointing that
in people's eyes, and I don't really see how a variance would keep from
doing that if I wasn't......
AA
"Uptown Jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:450f504f@linux...
> Ha! Having been a local downtown business owner, that ain't funny,
> actually.
>
> Jimmy
>
>
> "Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote in message
> news:450f401a$1@linux...
>> Fiber networks rock. I'm wondering though, when will this all hit a phase
>> where a guy has to get a variance just to run his network :)
>>
>> AA
>>
>
>OMG I can't believe I actually wrote plugs that use lookahead, and yet described
it exactly backwards.
Chuck
"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>It essentially splits the signal into two paths.. one for the detector and
>one that is the audio throughput. By NOT delaying the detector and delaying
>the audio by, let's say, 1 mS the detector actually gets a 1 mS 'lookahead'
>time to better process the signal/transients.
>The price is that now your audio will be 1 mS later than it was. This can
be
>a real bite in the rear on multimic'd stuff like drum kits unless you
>intentionally delay the other tracks by the same amount (and the next step
>is to move them all back/to the left 1mS in the editor).
>
>AA
>
>"Uptown Jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>news:45108d2a@linux...
>>I never understood lookahead. Read the explanations, felt ignernt.
>>
>> Even NoLimit? No real latency?
>>
>> Jimmy
>>
>>
>> "chucduffy" <c@c.om> wrote in message news:4510872c$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Depending on lookahead of course :-)
>>>
>>> "Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >Yeah, 2 samples of latency (at 44.1) for eds plugs
>>> >Rod
>>> >Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>>> >>Hi Jimmy,
>>> >>As far as I've ever seen the EDS plugins have little or no latency
as
>>> >>they exist in the hardware just like on a Pro Tools HD system.
>>> >>Chris
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>Uptown Jimmy wrote:
>>> >>> Wait a minute: Paris atuo-compenstaes for EDS plugins?!
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I'm very surprised, if true.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Jimmy
>>> >>>
>>> >>> "Chris Ludwig" <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote in message
>>> >>> news:450ff34f$1@linux...
>>> >>>> HI,
>>> >>>> It only matters under 2 scenarios.
>>> >>>> 1. Playing VST INstruments in real time.
>>> >>>> 2. Processing native effects on a live input.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Otherwise you can set the buffer high to free up resources.
>>> >>>> When using Direct monitoring the software monitor inputs at the
>> hardware
>>> >>>> level so no latency.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> ADC becomes more useful in the mixing stage Cubase will keep all
the
>>> >>>> plug ins including external plug ins sample accurate. Paris will
do
>>> this
>>> >>>> only with its EDS effects not with native. Actually most programs
>> didn't
>>> >>>> only had this type of compensation on inserts only forever.
>> Steinberg
>>> >>>> were the first to figure out how to do it across the whole path.
I
>> wish
>>> >>>> Steinberg would stop with all the innovation stuff so I wouldn't
>>> >>>> have
>>> >to
>>> >>>> keep track of all the new features the competitors have in their
>>> >>>> programs. :0
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Chris
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Uptown Jimmy wrote:
>>> >>>>> What do buffer and latency matter for anymore, what with ADC on
>> native
>>> >>>>> systems?
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> I seriously have no idea, being a Paris junkie since the beginning.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Jimmy
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> "Chris Ludwig" <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote in message
>>> >>>>> news:450f2d33@linux...
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>> HI Mike,
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Mike R. wrote:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Hope it's ok to post this question here.
>>> >>>>>>> A friend of mine is going to buy a new Mac laptop. She is
>>> >>>>>>> running
>>> >>>>> Cubase SE
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> on her current
>>> >>>>>> No Universal Binary yet for Cubase not till 4.0 comes out so I
>> don't
>>> >>>>>> think it will work if it is a Intel based one.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 'pute and wants a bigger faster, but portable, machine.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> I'm
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> most interested in your thoughts regarding both an audio card
and
>>> >what
>>> >>>>> sort
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> of external audio drive she could/should use.
>>> >>>>>> On a budget the Presonus Firebox is a great unit. If she want
>> quality
>>> >>>>>> Mic-Pres and AD/DA, etc then the RME Fireface 400.
>>> >>>>>> Also the Mackie Spike or Onyx 400f might be a good option sense
>> they
>>> >>>>>> come with the Tracktion software already.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> If she is only recording 2 tracks or so then there is no need
for
>>> an
>>> >>>>>> external drive. It would only be needed fore backs ups but the
>> projects
>>> >>>>>> would more than likely be small enough to easily fit on DVDRW.
>>> >>>>>> Using an internal 80 or 100 gig drive on the PC would easily allow
>>> >for
>>> >>>>>> 32 tracks of 24/48 at 3 ms buffer on the RME Fireface 400. If
you
>>> raise
>>> >>>>>> the buffer then 48 tracks should be no problem.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> She generally won't be
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> recording more than two tracks at a time, four absolute max.
I
>> don't
>>> >>>>> think
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> she'd be mixing more than eight tracks at any one time either.
I
>>> >will
>>> >>>>>>> certainly be surfing myself to see what's out there, but I'd
take
>>> >you
>>> >>>>> folk's
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> recommendations, even over say... Mr. Spock's --although he did
>> some
>>> >>>>> pretty
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> nifty stuff analyzing those whale sounds.
>>> >>>>>>> Thank you, thank you.
>>> >>>>>>> MR
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> The current laptops well use the new Core 2 Duo CPUs.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>
>> http://www.adkproaudio.com/systems/saved_system.cfm?systemid =103&saved_id=89
>>> >>>>> 35
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>> :)
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Chris
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> --
>>> >>>>>> Chris Ludwig
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> ADK Pro Audio
>>> >>>>>> (859) 635-5762
>>> >>>>>> www.adkproaudio.com
>>> >>>>>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>> --
>>> >>>> Chris Ludwig
>>> >>>> ADK
>>> >>>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>>> >>>> www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>>> >>>> (859) 635-5762
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>--
>>> >>Chris Ludwig
>>> >>
>>> >>ADK Pro Audio
>>> >>(859) 635-5762
>>> >>www.adkproaudio.com
>>> >>chrisl@adkproaudio.com
&
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT:movie on 911-youve got to see this [message #71550 is a reply to message #71533] |
Mon, 21 August 2006 10:51 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
rate Islamist thugs in the position of forcing
the
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> leader of Christendom to bow before them.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> In this demand for submission they are joined by the
> > secularist
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> mouthpiece. In its September 16 edition the Times
> > > > editorializes:
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> "He needs to offer a deep and persuasive apology." The
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> secularists too seek the Pope's submission. Like the
> > Islamists,
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> the secularists are driven only by their will to power.
> While
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> the Islamists represent their demented version of
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> God--unrestrained by reason, the secularists represent
their
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> demented version of reason--unrestrained by God. They are
> > > > united
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> by their self-worshipping world view.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> It should be noted that the carefully staged "anger' from
> the
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Islamic world does not condemn Benedict's characterization
> of
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Islam as a religion where God's "will is not bound up with
> any
> > > > of
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> our categories, even that of rationality...(The Islamic)
God
> > is
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> not bound even by his own word.." This is not seen as an
> > > > insult.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Islam embraces this description. In offering this
> description
> > > > of
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Islam, Benedict refers to the views of leading modern
French
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Islamist R. Arnaldez as discussed in the writings of
> Professor
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Theodore Khoury of Munster.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Likewise the secularists express no dismay at the pope's
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> characterization of a secularist as: "(A) subject (who)
> then
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> decides, on the basis of his experiences, what he
considers
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> tenable in matters of religion, and the subjective
> 'conscience
> > '
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> becomes the sole arbiter of what is ethical."
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Benedict asserts that without reason, or without God,
there
> > can
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> be no modern system of morality. He explains, "In this
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> way.ethics and religion lose their power to create a
> community
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> and become (instead) a completely personal matter."
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Both Islamist and secularist seek to break God and reason
> > apart.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Each claims superiority over the Christian West. They
> believe
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> absolute moral license makes them powerful. As
> globalization
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> carries the Western tradition of reason throughout the
> world,
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> both are in decline.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Where the force of reason is defeated, Islamist and
> secularist
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> will meet in combat, just as Hitler's fascists broke their
> > pact
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> with the Soviet Union, invading in June, 1941 after the
> > collapse
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> of the allied forces on the western front.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> What the Islamists and the New York Times both fear is
> having
> > to
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> reply to the Pope's key point, borrowed from the Byzantine
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Emperor: "'Not to act reasonably, not to act with logos
> (word
> > > > or
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> reason) is contrary to the nature of God,'.. It is to
this
> > > > great
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> logos, to this breadth of reason, that we invite our
> partners
> > in
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> the dialogue of cultures."
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Their fear of reason can only lead the world to disaster.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
>
>Man.
I'm sorry, DJ. You've been good to me, and I don't mean to offend you, but I
don't quite understand what you're trying to say.
Not that I don't pay attention to
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT:movie on 911-youve got to see this [message #71551 is a reply to message #71540] |
Mon, 21 August 2006 10:53 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
things, usually....
I just think people ought to have to take responsibility for their own
actions.
And I don't recall Slick Willy invading Iraq.
Guess I'm just ignernt.
Jimmy
"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
news:45109ebf@linux...
> No. I think the situation in Iraq, as it stands right now, is a result of
> the left undercutting the administration at every turn and thereby giving
> aid and encouragement to our enemies who, when they see the country so
> divided, can take it to the bank that the left will do their fair share to
> defeat our efforts. I'm just blaming the intelligence deficit and the lack
> of leadership that led to the UN sanctions being undercut at every turn on
> Clinton, otherwise the war that started in 1991, would not still be
> happening. Thius is a war that never stopped. It could have if Clinton
would
> have had his eye on the ball and exercised some of the great
*international
> leadership* that his supporters fantisize so much about.........but he
> didn't. He allowed the sanctions to be undercut by *our allies*.
>
>
>
>
> "Uptown Jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:45108022@linux...
> > So...you're blaming the situation in Iraq on Bill Clinton? Is that
right?
> >
> > Cuz that seems absurd to me.
> >
> > Just sayin'.
> >
> > Jimmy
> >
> >
> > "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
> > news:4510721c@linux...
> > > >But again, merely pointing fingers backwards
> > > >in no way excuses the mistakes and failures of the current
government.
> > >
> > > Our situation is directly related to the fact that our leaders based
> their
> > > decisions on disinformation that was a result of the policies of the
> > Clinton
> > > administration. I'm not pointing the finger backwards for any other
> reason
> > > than I feel it is important to keep this in mind lest we elect the
same
> > > misguided souls with the same naieve and misguided foriegn policy
ideas
> to
> > > office once again and end up in an even bigger mess.........and
> > yes.......it
> > > could be much bigger if the liberals take control of the national
> > > legislature.......much less, god forbid, having another Clinton in the
> > white
> > > House.
> > >
> > >
> > > "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
news:451035a7@linux...
> > > >
> > > > For most of the Clinton years the balance of power was divided
between
> > > > both parties. Again, there is plenty of finger pointing to go
around.
> > > > It's easy enough in hindsight to criticize the previous
administration
> > > > on a number of counts.
> > > >
> > > > And in retrospect, those dems made a mistake trusting Bush with that
> > > > vote. OTOH, it was a moment of unity.
> > > >
> > > > Flash forward. Today all branches of national government are
> controlled
> > > > by one party. It doesn't bother me if you want to point blame at
some
> of
> > > > the policies under Clinton. But again, merely pointing fingers
> backwards
> > > > in no way excuses the mistakes and failures of the current
government.
> > > >
> > > > They walked in stating in clear terms that they felt the previous
> > > > government was wrong about almost everything, and then fell flat
> > > > overall, domestically and internationally.
> > > >
> > > > Looking at both governments, we can do better. We must do better.
> > > > At some point, and we're coming up on six years, the buck stops with
> > > > those in charge now.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > -Jamie
> > > > http://www.JamieKrutz.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > DJ wrote:
> > > > > The dems you mentioned authorized the military attack on Iraq as a
> > last
> > > > > resort and I don't believe they were satisfied it was done as
such.
> > > > >
> > > > > How convenient for them when it was the intelligence service that
> they
> > > > > created over 8 years of hard work that they now attempt to slag
and
> > > blame
> > > > > for their decisdions so they can vote for the war before they vote
> > > against
> > > > > it.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
> > news:450f8aec@linux...
> > > > >> There is plenty of finger pointing to go around. No doubt
specific
> > > > >> things could have been handled better under the previous
> government.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> The transition of power between the previous and current
> governments
> > > was
> > > > >> pretty rocky, and a "not invented here" syndrome may have doomed
> the
> > > > >> hand-off of some al-Qaida related work that was in progress.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> In any case, no government gets a pass by blaming the previous
> > > > >> government. The current government, for example, failed to follow
> > > > >> through and prioritize the al-Qaida threat ahead of 9/11 and
failed
> > to
> > > > >> prevent 9/11; failed to find and capture Bin Laden in
Afghanistan;
> > > > >> failed to overcome Taliban control of large areas of Afghanistan;
> > > > >> allowed record drug production to reestablish itself there;
failed
> to
> > > > >> plan for post Iraq invasion problems predicted by their own state
> > > > >> department; and they have continually exploited the "war on
> > terrorism"
> > > > >> for domestic political ends.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> You assert the WMDs were there. However Bush's chief inspector,
and
> > > Bush
> > > > >> himself, say they weren't there after all. It was a bluff. One of
> the
> > > > >> Iraqi expatriate promoters of the bluff got the ear of our
> > government,
> > > > >> was believed, and, last I heard, had parlayed it into a position
of
> > > > >> power in Iraq after the invasion.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> The dems you mentioned authorized the military attack on Iraq as
a
> > last
> > > > >> resort and I don't believe they were satisfied it was done as
such.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Preemptive invasion is new as part of the "Bush (Jr.) Doctrine."
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Cheers,
> > > > >> -Jamie
> > > > >> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> DJ wrote:
> > > > >>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
> > > news:450f3862@linux...
> > > > >>>> Neither, actually. And what we ought to do would depend on the
> > nature
> > > > > of
> > > > >>>> the threat.
> > > > >>> Agreed.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> We might want to start with recommendations published in 1999,
> well
> > > > >>>> before the 9/11 attack.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Commission_on_Terroris m
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> We can disagree about whether our current policy is one of
> > > overreacting
> > > > >>>> or not. We can probably really disagree about the newly minted
> > > > >>>> preemptive attack policy. :^)
> > > > >>> I don't think there is any newly minted attack policy. There has
> > > always
> > > > > been
> > > > >>> the *clear and present danger* perogative but it needs to be
based
> > on
> > > > >>> accurate intelligence. Had this been available, then I doubt
that
> > > Bush,
> > > > >>> Kerry, Kennedy Pelosi and the rest would have authorized the
> > invasion
> > > of
> > > > >>> Iraq, or perhaps they would have been able to find the WMD's
> before
> > > they
> > > > >>> were shipped out of the country or hidden. I just find it hard
to
> > > > > stomach
> > > > >>> the hypocracy of the democrats whose policies neutered our
> > > intelligence
> > > > >>> services in the '90's when they trun around and blame Bush for
the
> > > > > decisions
> > > > >>> made based on the intellegence blunders they created in the
first
> > > place.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Regards,
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Deej
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> Cheers,
> > > > >>>> -Jamie
> > > > >>>> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> DJ wrote:
> > > > >>>>> I don't see us overreacting Jamie. However, if there is
> indication
> > > of
> > > > >>> some
> > > > >>>>> sort of major threat, do we run and tell the NY times or do we
> > blow
> > > > > the
> > > > >>>>> threat away before it pays us a visit?
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:450f0b12@linux...
> > > > >>>>>> Of course they came out with a blustery ultimatum. That's not
> > news,
> > > > >>> it's
> > > > >>>>>> an old pattern. It works for them to sit back and suggest
that
> > > others
> > > > >>> do
> > > > >>>>>> something via terror-grams such as this. If it makes you
afraid
> > as
> > > > >>> well,
> > > > >>>>>> my guess is they would see that as a bonus.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> By goading the USA into overreacting it helps them grow,
raise
> > > money
> > > > >>> and
> > > > >>>>>> convince others to actually see us as evil and act
accordingly.
> > It
> > > > >>>>>> works, we keep falling for it. OTOH, for those here with a
> > declared
> > > > >>>>>> interest in emptying the US treasury, it's likewise
beneficial
> to
> > > > > have
> > > > >>>>>> the specter of an enemy out there. Fear sells.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> We have yet to actually declare war on anyone in this whole
> mess.
> > > How
> > > > >>> do
> > > > >>>>>> you declare war on a tactic?
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Forced conversion and head taxes would go over like a lead
> > balloon
> > > in
> > > > >>>>>> the USA. Not gonna happen. We're far more sectarian than,
say,
> > > Iraq.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Responsible leadership is needed in the world to calm
extremist
> > > > >>>>>> tendencies on all sides and help rational people who are
trying
> > to
> > > > > get
> > > > >>>>>> by in worsening times. At the same time we need to be, and
are
> > > > >>>>>> attempting to be, vigilant against any self righteous group
> with
> > > > >>>>>> fantasies of violence in the USA.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Any rush to some sort of "holy war" is irrational. There is
> > nothing
> > > > >>> holy
> > > > >>>>>> about war.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Cheers,
> > > > >>>>>> -Jamie
> > > > >>>>>> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> DJ wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>> I haven't seen us react with irrationality.............yet.
> Al
> > > > > Quaeda
> > > > >>>>> just
> > > > >>>>>>> came out with an ultimatim stating that it's full on war now
> and
> > > the
> > > > >>>>> west
> > > > >>>>>>> will be destroyed. The only way to save ourselves is to
> convert
> > to
> > > > >>>>> Islam. So
> > > > >>>>>>> where to you draw the line between irrationality and self
> > defense?
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
> > > > >>> news:450ee7ef@linux...
> > > > >>>>>>>> Let's keep from reacting to irrationality with
irrationality
> of
> > > our
> > > > >>>>> own.
> > > > >>>>>>>> There's a lot of fear mongering. Chicken Little is back.
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Cheers,
> > > > >>>>>>>> -Jamie
> > > > >>>>>>>> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> DJ wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>> It doesn't matter at all whether this was the Pope. The
> bottom
> > > > > line
> > > > >>> is
> > > > >>>>>>> that
> > > > >>>>>>>>> it is rationality as opposed to irrationality.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
> > > > >>>>> news:450ec970@linux...
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> The Catholic church doesn't speak for Christianity.
> Certainly
> > > not
> > > > >>> for
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Lutherans, and for good reason.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> A Pope criticizing other religions (even other Christian
> > sects,
> > > > >>> even
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> other Catholics) is nothing new. Certainly much harsher
> > things
> > > > > have
> > > > >>>>>>> been
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> said about Islam by some (not all) extreme fundamentalist
> > > > >>> Christians.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> And certainly much harsher things have been said by
certain
> > > > >>> extremist
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Islamists about Christianity. The more extremist of both
> > camps
> > > > > seem
> > > > >>>>> to
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> be spoiling to relive the crusades. With some of the more
> > power
> > > > >>>>> hungry
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> ready to endanger civilization by attempting to incite
> > > religious
> > > > >>> wars
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> for their own questionable ends.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> It's a vast generalization to say the "the left" or
> > > "secularists"
> > > > >>> or
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> even "Christians" are demanding an apology from the Pope.
I
> > > think
> > > > > a
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> whole lot of people think the Pope can say whatever he
> wants.
> > > It
> > > > >>>>>>> doesn't
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> matter to most non-Catholics in the USA and in reality,
> Papal
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> declarations are ignored by a fair number of Catholics
> here,
> > > too.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Obviously some Moslems are upset in some places, but how
> deep
> > > > > does
> > > > >>>>> that
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> go? When black churches were burning in the USA, it would
> > have
> > > > > been
> > > > >>>>> an
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> exaggeration to blame everyone in the USA for that.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> The fear of reason extends to the Catholic church which
> only
> > > very
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> recently apologized for the oppression of Galileo. The
> church
> > > > > hung
> > > > >>> on
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> tenaciously to the dogma of an earth-centered view of the
> > > > > universe
> > > > >>>>>>> while
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> denying the heliocentric theory of Copernicus, which
> > describes
> > > > > the
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> actual way the solar system works.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> It also extends to a few Christian sects who, feeling
> > similarly
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> insecure, tenaciously cling to the notion that the earth
is
> > > only
> > > > >>>>> about
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> 6,000 years old, by virtue of the biblical
interpretations
> > and
> > > > >>> clever
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> (at the time) calculations of an Irish Bishop several
> > centuries
> > > > >>> ago,
> > > > >>>>>>> and
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> in the face of solid current scientific evidence to the
> > > contrary.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> The fear of reason extends to some (not all) Christian
> > churches
> > > > >>> who,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> feeling similarly insecure, deny the solid and
> ever-mounting
> > > > >>> evidence
> > > > >>>>>>> of
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> evolution, responding with dogma in psuedo-scientific
> > clothing,
> > > > > and
> > > > >>>>> who
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> seek to water down scientific education in the USA.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> The fear of reason extends to power hungry industries who
> pay
> > > big
> > > > >>>>> bucks
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> to spread denial about global warming for short term
gain.
> > Who
> > > > > push
> > > > >>>>> to
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> control oil in the middle east with force. With our guns
> > > blazing,
> > > > >>> our
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> soldiers dying and our debt rising astronomically. And
who
> > > > >>> sometimes
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> hide behind Christianity to do so.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> The fear of reason extends to some neoconservatives who
> find
> > > ways
> > > > >>> to
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> pretend that everyone is aligning against Christianity.
And
> > in
> > > > >>>>>>> spreading
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> this fear attempt to incite Christians to vote to keep
them
> > in
> > > > >>> power.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> And in so pandering, help to continue the denial of
reason
> > and
> > > > > the
> > > > >>>>>>> focus
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> on the use of force.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Not that I'll change your mind, DC, so go ahead and
declare
> > > > >>> victory.
> > > > >>>>>>> ;^)
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Have a great week!
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> -Jamie
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> DC wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> I thought this was worth reading if any of you are
> > interested.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Have a great Monday!
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> The Unholy Alliance Rolls Over the Pope
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> By Andrew Walden
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> In what has suddenly been made into a highly
controversial
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> speech, the day after September 11, at Bavaria's
> University
> > of
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Regensberg, Pope Benedict describes Christian belief in
a
> > God
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> whose words and acts are bound by reason, truth and the
> law
> > of
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> non-contradiction. Benedict contrasts this with Islamic
> > > belief
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> in a God not bound by anything-including his own words.
> > > > > Benedict
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> further contrasts Christian belief with that of secular
> > > > > humanists
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> who see reason as being completely unbound of God.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> In response, both Islamists and secularists have
demanded
> > the
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Pope apologize. Benedict's speech is a work of
enlightened
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> genius. He has clearly laid out the differences between
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Christian culture and Islamic culture and the basis of
the
> > > clash
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> of civilizations we now experience as the War on Terror.
> His
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> analysis also explains the underlying cause of the
> alliance
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> between the western Left and the Islamofascist Right.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Islamist reaction focuses on one sentence in the speech.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Reaching back to 1391, Benedict quotes Byzantine Emperor
> > > Manuel
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> II: "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new,
and
> > > there
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his
> > > command
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> to spread by the sword the faith he preached."
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Four days later, according to AP: "Pakistan's
legislature
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> unanimously condemned Pope Benedict XVI. Lebanon's top
> > Shiite
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> cleric demanded an apology. And in Turkey, the ruling
> party
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> likened the pontiff to Hitler and Mussolini and accused
> him
> > of
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> reviving the mentality of the Crusades.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> "Across the Islamic world Friday, Benedict's remarks on
> > Islam
> > > > > and
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> jihad in a speech in Germany unleashed a torrent of rage
> > that
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> many fear could burst into violent protests like those
> that
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> followed publication of caricatures of the Prophet
> > Muhammad."
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Reuters quoted other sources expressing fears for the
> Pope's
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> safety and even fear of an attack on Vatican City.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> The Islamist reaction proves Manuel II's 600-year-old
> point.
> > > > > The
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> reaction is not one of anger but a calculated attempt to
> > force
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the Pope to parrot the PC line on Islam. Since Islam
need
> > not
> > > be
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> internally consistent and it is not bound by reason,
it's
> > only
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> objective can be to assert the power of a God who is so
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> transcendent that He is not bound by anything. If man is
> > > created
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> in God's image then by extension Islamic man is not
bound
> by
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> anything. (This explains the predilection on the part
of
> > some
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Muslims to lie.) Islamists are not responding to any
> > 'offense'
> > > > > to
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> their non-existent morality. They are asserting the
only
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 'morality' they have-the will to power.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> "Will to Power" is a key element of Nietzsche 's
> > > > > philosophy-hence
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the root of the term, Islamofascist. Moreover the
Western
> > > "Left'
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> is today guided far more by Nietzsche existentialist
> thought
> > > > > than
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> by Marxist thought-hence the alliance between the
Western
> > > "Left"
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> and the Islamofascist 'Right.'
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Reuters quotes an Indian Muslim leader doing precisely
> what
>
|
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| Re: OT:movie on 911-youve got to see this [message #71554 is a reply to message #71550] |
Mon, 21 August 2006 11:17 |
DC
Messages: 722
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"Pope
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Benedict XVI has insulted Muslims.." This is false.
The
> > Pope
> > > 's
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> description of the Islamic God as being unbound by
reason
> is
> > > not
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> an insult, it is an Islamic article of faith. What
> Muslims
> > > and
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> secularists fear is the Pope's decision to choose to
enter
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> dialogue asserting his belief in Christianity. How dare
> he
> > > not
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> "apologize" for being a Christian? That is the
so-called
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> "insult."
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> One might "reasonably" ask when will Muslims "apologize"
> for
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> being Muslim? But they are not bound by reason to the
> point
> > is
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> lost on them.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Amazingly the Times continues: "Muslim leaders the world
> > over
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> have demanded apologies. For many Muslims, holy war -
> > jihad -
> > > is
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> a spiritual struggle, and not a call to violence." In
> > saying
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> this, the Times implicitly recognizes the Islamists are
> > waging
> > > a
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> propaganda jihad against the Pope and by extension
against
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Christianity-and they explicitly endorse and join this
> > jihad.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> The Times is saying to Islamists, 'we can join your
> > 'spiritual
> > > '
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> jihad, but not your violent jihad.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> The Times editors are living in a fool's paradise. The
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> "spiritual" non-violent jihad of propaganda is merely
the
> > flip
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> side of the violent jihad. Nowhere is that more clear
> than
> > in
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the Islamist reaction to the Pope.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> With the Pope scheduled to visit Turkey in November the
> > > > > Islamists
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> are rejecting any apology from Vatican spokespersons and
> > > demand
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> to hear from the Pope himself. This would place raging
> mobs
> > > of
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> semi-literate Islamist thugs in the position of forcing
> the
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> leader of Christendom to bow before them.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> In this demand for submission they are joined by the
> > > secularist
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> mouthpiece. In its September 16 edition the Times
> > > > > editorializes:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> "He needs to offer a deep and persuasive apology." The
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> secularists too seek the Pope's submission. Like the
> > > Islamists,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the secularists are driven only by their will to power.
> > While
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the Islamists represent their demented version of
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> God--unrestrained by reason, the secularists represent
> their
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> demented version of reason--unrestrained by God. They
are
> > > > > united
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> by their self-worshipping world view.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> It should be noted that the carefully staged "anger'
from
> > the
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Islamic world does not condemn Benedict's
characterization
> > of
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Islam as a religion where God's "will is not bound up
with
> > any
> > > > > of
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> our categories, even that of rationality...(The Islamic)
> God
> > > is
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> not bound even by his own word.." This is not seen as
an
> > > > > insult.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Islam embraces this description. In offering this
> > description
> > > > > of
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Islam, Benedict refers to the views of leading modern
> French
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Islamist R. Arnaldez as discussed in the writings of
> > Professor
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Theodore Khoury of Munster.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Likewise the secularists express no dismay at the pope's
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> characterization of a secularist as: "(A) subject (who)
> > then
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> decides, on the basis of his experiences, what he
> considers
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> tenable in matters of religion, and the subjective
> > 'conscience
> > > '
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> becomes the sole arbiter of what is ethical."
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Benedict asserts that without reason, or without God,
> there
> > > can
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> be no modern system of morality. He explains, "In this
> > > > >>>>>>>>&g
|
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| Re: OT:movie on 911-youve got to see this [message #71556 is a reply to message #71543] |
Mon, 21 August 2006 11:21 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
;>>>>>>>>>> Both Islamist and secularist seek to break God and
reason
> > > apart.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Each claims superiority over the Christian West. They
> > believe
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> absolute moral license makes them powerful. As
> > globalization
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> carries the Western tradition of reason throughout the
> > world,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> both are in decline.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Where the force of reason is defeated, Islamist and
> > secularist
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> will meet in combat, just as Hitler's fascists broke
their
> > > pact
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> with the Soviet Union, invading in June, 1941 after the
> > > collapse
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> of the allied forces on the western front.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> What the Islamists and the New York Times both fear is
> > having
> > > to
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> reply to the Pope's key point, borrowed from the
Byzantine
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Emperor: "'Not to act reasonably, not to act with logos
> > (word
> > > > > or
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> reason) is contrary to the nature of God,'.. It is to
> this
> > > > > great
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> logos, to this breadth of reason, that we invite our
> > partners
> > > in
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the dialogue of cultures."
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Their fear of reason can only lead the world to
disaster.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>Ummm.....I'm too poor to afford a video cam.
To be honest, EMU discontinuing Paris was one of the best things that ever
happened to me. Cheap parts, ya know....
By "pause key", you mean the key that says "pause" & "break"?
I know I seem ignernt. I'm sorry.
Jimmy
"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote in message
news:451090ed@linux...
> er.. do you know you can hit the pause key on the keyboard and stop it?
Just
> hit the spacebar when you're ready to go again.
> Sorry I didn't mention that before. Or alternately you could point a video
> cam at it.
>
> AA
>
>
> "Uptown Jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:45107fd4$1@linux...
> > Like I said before, that particular screen flashes by almost
subliminally.
> >
> > I had great success today with one EDS card, trying it in one PCI slot
at
> > a
> > time, all four PCI slots, no problems. I'll throw all four in there and
> > see
> > what happens. I'll check the msinfo thingie befoe I boot up Paris. It
will
> > tell me if IRQs are shared, right?
> >
> > Jimmy
> >
> > "John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:4510657c@linux...
> >>
> >> During boot up does your bios show you what IRQ's it is assigning to
your
> >> card? It might say "multimedia device" or something like that.
There's
> >> no routine, you can put as many eds cards in as long as EVERY slot you
> >> put
> >> them in is not shared with other devices. If the slot is shared with
> > stuff
> >> like onboard audio, usb etc turn them off in the bios to free the slot
> > from
> >> IRQ conflicts if you will be using that slot.
> >>
> >> If you can see irq info on bootup you can try each slot and see what
> >> comes
> >> up as shared. Also, run msinfo32.exe from Start / Run and see what
IRQs
> >> are doing what under Hardware.
> >>
> >> It's all about the god damn irqs !!!
> >>
> >> "Uptown Jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >> >I have a one-card system going smoothly, with the EDS card in slot 3
of
> >> 4.
> >> >Still unable to get through to the Asus people about IRQs, still
trying.
> >> >
> >> >Today I will try the one EDS card in the other three slots, one by
one.
> >> If
> >> >things go well in each slot, can I just throw all four of my EDS cards
> >> >in
> >> >their at once (I still have the four of them linked together with
little
> >> EDS
> >> >cables, just the same as I pulled them out), or is there some special
> >> >routine I have to follow? The manual doesn't make utter sense to me on
> > this
> >> >point, somehow...
> >> >
> >> >Jimmy
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>
>Heh. I'm OK with Hillary running. Maybe Laura should run, too. They both
have experience cleaning up messes left by their husbands...
Cheers,
-Jamie
http://www.JamieKrutz.com
DJ wrote:
> Bill is most certainly running again......he's just wearing a dress this
> time.
>
>
> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:45107e39@linux...
>> Our situation is directly related to more than half a century of our
>> decisions and actions, smart and stupid.
>>
>> It's of limited usefulness to hone in on the last administration as if
>> that's the entire problem, surely you would have to take into account
>> decisions made before then and since then.
>>
>> So while I agree with your point to an extent, it's insufficient to
>> inoculate the current admin from its own significant problems.
>>
>> Bill and George aren't running again so we don't have to argue that one.
>> I am not writing off either major party or a third party, but we need a
>> change on many levels.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>> DJ wrote:
>>>> But again, merely pointing fingers backwards
>>>> in no way excuses the mistakes and failures of the current government.
>>> Our situation is directly related to the fact that our leaders based
> their
>>> decisions on disinformation that was a result of the policies of the
> Clinton
>>> administration. I'm not pointing the finger backwards for any other
> reason
>>> than I feel it is important to keep this in mind lest we elect the same
>>> misguided souls with the same naieve and misguided foriegn policy ideas
> to
>>> office once again and end up in an even bigger mess.........and
> yes.......it
>>> could be much bigger if the liberals take control of the national
>>> legislature.......much less, god forbid, having another Clinton in the
> white
>>> House.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:451035a7@linux...
>>>> For most of the Clinton years the balance of power was divided between
>>>> both parties. Again, there is plenty of finger pointing to go around.
>>>> It's easy enough in hindsight to criticize the previous administration
>>>> on a number of counts.
>>>>
>>>> And in retrospect, those dems made a mistake trusting Bush with that
>>>> vote. OTOH, it was a moment of unity.
>>>>
>>>> Flash forward. Today all branches of national government are controlled
>>>> by one party. It doesn't bother me if you want to point blame at some
> of
>>>> the policies under Clinton. But again, merely pointing fingers
> backwards
>>>> in no way excuses the mistakes and failures of the current government.
>>>>
>>>> They walked in stating in clear terms that they felt the previous
>>>> government was wrong about almost everything, and then fell flat
>>>> overall, domestically and internationally.
>>>>
>>>> Looking at both governments, we can do better. We must do better.
>>>> At some point, and we're coming up on six years, the buck stops with
>>>> those in charge now.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> -Jamie
>>>> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> DJ wrote:
>>>>> The dems you mentioned authorized the military attack on Iraq as a
> last
>>>>> resort and I don't believe they were satisfied it was done as such.
>>>>>
>>>>> How convenient for them when it was the intelligence service that they
>>>>> created over 8 years of hard work that they now attempt to slag and
>>> blame
>>>>> for their decisdions so they can vote for the war before they vote
>>> against
>>>>> it.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
> news:450f8aec@linux...
>>>>>> There is plenty of finger pointing to go around. No doubt specific
>>>>>> things could have been handled better under the previous government.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The transition of power between the previous and current governments
>>> was
>>>>>> pretty rocky, and a "not invented here" syndrome may have doomed the
>>>>>> hand-off of some al-Qaida related work that was in progress.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In any case, no government gets a pass by blaming the previous
>>>>>> government. The current government, for example, failed to follow
>>>>>> through and prioritize the al-Qaida threat ahead of 9/11 and failed
> to
>>>>>> prevent 9/11; failed to find and capture Bin Laden in Afghanistan;
>>>>>> failed to overcome Taliban control of large areas of Afghanistan;
>>>>>> allowed record drug production to reestablish itself there; failed to
>>>>>> plan for post Iraq invasion problems predicted by their own state
>>>>>> department; and they have continually exploited the "war on
> terrorism"
>>>>>> for domestic political ends.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You assert the WMDs were there. However Bush's chief inspector, and
>>> Bush
>>>>>> himself, say they weren't there after all. It was a bluff. One of the
>>>>>> Iraqi expatriate promoters of the bluff got the ear of our
> government,
>>>>>> was believed, and, last I heard, had parlayed it into a position of
>>>>>> power in Iraq after the invasion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The dems you mentioned authorized the military attack on Iraq as a
> last
>>>>>> resort and I don't believe they were satisfied it was done as such.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Preemptive invasion is new as part of the "Bush (Jr.) Doctrine."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DJ wrote:
>>>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>> news:450f3862@linux...
>>>>>>>> Neither, actually. And what we ought to do would depend on the
> nature
>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> the threat.
>>>>>>> Agreed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We might want to start with recommendations published in 1999, well
>>>>>>>> before the 9/11 attack.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Commission_on_Terroris m
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We can disagree about whether our current policy is one of
>>> overreacting
>>>>>>>> or not. We can probably really disagree about the newly minted
>>>>>>>> preemptive attack policy. :^)
>>>>>>> I don't think there is any newly minted attack policy. There has
>>> always
>>>>> been
>>>>>>> the *clear and present danger* perogative but it needs to be based
> on
>>>>>>> accurate intelligence. Had this been available, then I doubt that
>>> Bush,
>>>>>>> Kerry, Kennedy Pelosi and the rest would have authorized the
> invasion
>>> of
>>>>>>> Iraq, or perhaps they would have been able to find the WMD's before
>>> they
>>>>>>> were shipped out of the country or hidden. I just find it hard to
>>>>> stomach
>>>>>>> the hypocracy of the democrats whose policies neutered our
>>> intelligence
>>>>>>> services in the '90's when they trun around and blame Bush for the
>>>>> decisions
>>>>>>> made based on the intellegence blunders they created in the first
>>> place.
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Deej
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>>> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> DJ wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I don't see us overreacting Jamie. However, if there is indication
>>> of
>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>> sort of major threat, do we run and tell the NY times or do we
> blow
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> threat away before it pays us a visit?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:450f0b12@linux...
>>>>>>>>>> Of course they came out with a blustery ultimatum. That's not
> news,
>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>> an old pattern. It works for them to sit back and suggest that
>>> others
>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>>> something via terror-grams such as this. If it makes you afraid
> as
>>>>>>> well,
>>>>>>>>>> my guess is they would see that as a bonus.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> By goading the USA into overreacting it helps them grow, raise
>>> money
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> convince others to actually see us as evil and act accordingly.
> It
>>>>>>>>>> works, we keep falling for it. OTOH, for those here with a
> declared
>>>>>>>>>> interest in emptying the US treasury, it's likewise beneficial to
>>>>> h
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT:movie on 911-youve got to see this [message #71558 is a reply to message #71554] |
Mon, 21 August 2006 11:28 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
e same time we need to be, and are
>>>>>>>>>> attempting to be, vigilant against any self righteous group with
>>>>>>>>>> fantasies of violence in the USA.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Any rush to some sort of "holy war" is irrational. There is
> nothing
>>>>>>> holy
>>>>>>>>>> about war.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> DJ wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I haven't seen us react with irrationality.............yet. Al
>>>>> Quaeda
>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>> came out with an ultimatim stating that it's full on war now and
>>> the
>>>>>>>>> west
>>>>>>>>>>> will be destroyed. The only way to save ourselves is to convert
> to
>>>>>>>>> Islam. So
>>>>>>>>>>> where to you draw the line between irrationality and self
> defense?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:450ee7ef@linux...
>>>>>>>>>>>> Let's keep from reacting to irrationality with irrationality of
>>> our
>>>>>>>>> own.
>>>>>>>>>>>> There's a lot of fear mongering. Chicken Little is back.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> DJ wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It doesn't matter at all whether this was the Pope. The bottom
>>>>> line
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is rationality as opposed to irrationality.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:450ec970@linux...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Catholic church doesn't speak for Christianity. Certainly
>>> not
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lutherans, and for good reason.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A Pope criticizing other religions (even other Christian
> sects,
>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other Catholics) is nothing new. Certainly much harsher
> things
>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said about Islam by some (not all) extreme fundamentalist
>>>>>>> Christians.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And certainly much harsher things have been said by certain
>>>>>>> extremist
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Islamists about Christianity. The more extremist of both
> camps
>>>>> seem
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be spoiling to relive the crusades. With some of the more
> power
>>>>>>>>> hungry
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ready to endanger civilization by attempting to incite
>>> religious
>>>>>>> wars
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for their own questionable ends.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's a vast generalization to say the "the left" or
>>> "secularists"
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even "Christians" are demanding an apology from the Pope. I
>>> think
>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole lot of people think the Pope can say whatever he wants.
>>> It
>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter to most non-Catholics in the USA and in reality, Papal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> declarations are ignored by a fair number of Catholics here,
>>> too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obviously some Moslems are upset in some places, but how deep
>>>>> does
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go? When black churches were burning in the USA, it would
> have
>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exaggeration to blame everyone in the USA for that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The fear of reason extends to the Catholic church which only
>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recently apologized for the oppression of Galileo. The church
>>>>> hung
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tenaciously to the dogma of an earth-centered view of the
>>>>> universe
>>>>>>>>>>> while
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> denying the heliocentric theory of Copernicus, which
> describes
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actual way the solar system works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It also extends to a few Christian sects who, feeling
> similarly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> insecure, tenaciously cling to the notion that the earth is
>>> only
>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6,000 years old, by virtue of the biblical interpretations
> and
>>>>>>> clever
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (at the time) calculations of an Irish Bishop several
> centuries
>>>>>>> ago,
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the face of solid current scientific evidence to the
>>> contrary.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The fear of reason extends to some (not all) Christian
> churches
>>>>>>> who,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feeling similarly insecure, deny the solid and ever-mounting
>>>>>>> evidence
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evolution, responding with dogma in psuedo-scientific
> clothing,
>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seek to water down scientific education in the USA.
>>>>>>>>>>>>&
|
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| Re: OT:movie on 911-youve got to see this [message #71562 is a reply to message #71556] |
Mon, 21 August 2006 12:11 |
Deej [1]
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
gt;>>>>>>>>>>> transcendent that He is not bound by anything. If man is
>>> created
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in God’s image then by extension Islamic man is not bound by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything. (This explains the predilection on the part of
> some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Muslims to lie.) Islamists are not responding to any
> ‘offense’
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their non-existent morality. They are asserting the only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ‘morality’ they have—the will to power.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Will to Power” is a key element of Nietzsche ’s
>>>>> philosophy—hence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the root of the term, Islamofascist. Moreover the Western
>>> “Left’
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is today guided far more by Nietzsche existentialist thought
>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by Marxist thought—hence the alliance between the Western
>>> “Left”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the Islamofascist ‘Right.’
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reuters quotes an Indian Muslim leader doing precisely what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Manuel II said they would: “Syed Ahmed Bukhari, the chief
>>> cleric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of New Delhi's historic Jama Masjid, India's largest mosque,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extolled Muslims to ‘respond in a manner which forces the
> Pope
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apologize.’” Note they intend to use “force” not reason.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reuters quotes an unnamed diplomat pointing out the Pope
> was,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “calling a spade a spade”.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The secularist mouthpiece, New York Times,editorializes,
> “Pope
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Benedict XVI has insulted Muslims….” This is false. The
> Pope
>>> ’s
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> description of the Islamic God as being unbound by reason is
>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an insult, it is an Islamic article of faith. What Muslims
>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> secularists fear is the Pope’s decision to choose to enter
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dialogue asserting his belief in Christianity. How dare he
>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “apologize” for being a Christian? That is the so-called
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “insult.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One might “reasonably” ask when will Muslims “apologize” for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being Muslim? But they are not bound by reason to the point
> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lost on them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Amazingly the Times continues: “Muslim leaders the world
> over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have demanded apologies… For many Muslims, holy war —
> jihad —
>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a spiritual struggle, and not a call to violence.” In
> saying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this, the Times implicitly recognizes the Islamists are
> waging
>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> propaganda jihad against the Pope and by extension against
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christianity—and they explicitly endorse and join this
> jihad.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Times is saying to Islamists, ‘we can join your
> ‘spiritual
>>> ’
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jihad, but not your violent jihad.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Times editors are living in a fool’s paradise. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “spiritual” non-violent jihad of propaganda is merely the
> flip
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> side of the violent jihad. Nowhere is that more clear than
> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Islamist reaction to the Pope.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the Pope scheduled to visit Turkey in November the
>>>>> Islamists
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are rejecting any apology from Vatican spokespersons and
>>> demand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to hear from the Pope himself. This would place raging mobs
>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> semi-literate Islamist thugs in the position of forcing the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leader of Christendom to bow before them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this demand for submission they are joined by the
>>> secularist
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mouthpiece. In its September 16 edition the Times
>>>>> editorializes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “He needs to offer a deep and persuasive apology…” The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> secularists too seek the Pope’s submission. Like the
>>> Islamists,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the secularists are driven only by their will to power.
> While
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Islamists represent their demented version of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God--unrestrained by reason, the secularists represent their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> demented version of reason--unrestrained by God. They are
>>>>> united
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by their self-worshipping world view.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It should be noted that the carefully staged “anger’ from
> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Islamic world does not condemn Benedict’s characterization
> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Islam as a religion where God’s “will is not bound up with
> any
>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our categories, even that of rationality...(The Islamic) God
>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not bound even by his own word….” This is not seen as an
>>>>> insult.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Islam embraces this description. In offering this
> description
>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Islam, Benedict refers to the views of leading modern French
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Islamist R. Arnaldez as discussed in the writings of
> Professor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Theodore Khoury of Munster.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Likewise the secularists express no dismay at the pope’s
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> characterization of a secularist as: “(A) subject (who)
> then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decides, on the basis of his experiences, what he considers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tenable in matters of religion, and the subjective
> ‘conscience
>>> ’
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> becomes the sole arbiter of what is ethical.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Benedict asserts that without reason, or without God, there
>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be no modern system of morality. He explains, “In this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way…ethics and religion lose their power to create a
> community
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and become (instead) a completely personal matter.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Both Islamist and secularist seek to break God and reason
>>> apart.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Each claims superiority over the Christian West. They
> believe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> absolute moral license makes them powerful. As
> globalization
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carries the Western tradition of reason throughout the
> world,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> both are in decline.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where the force of reason is defeated, Islamist and
> secularist
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will meet in combat, just as Hitler’s fascists broke their
>>> pact
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the Soviet Union, invading in June, 1941 after the
>>> collapse
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the allied forces on the western front.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What the Islamists and the New York Times both fear is
> having
>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reply to the Pope’s key point, borrowed from the Byzantine
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Emperor: “‘Not to act reasonably, not to act with logos
> (word
>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reason) is contrary to the nature of God,’.… It is to this
>>>>> great
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> logos, to this breadth of reason, that we invite our
> partners
>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the dialogue of cultures.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Their fear of reason can only lead the world to disaster.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>
>I'd vote for Caligula before I'd vote for Hillary, but I'd vote for Laura
Bush in a second. Every time I hear her speak or read what she writes she
seems like the level headed smart one in that outfit.
TCB
Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>
>Heh. I'm OK with Hillary running. Maybe Laura should run, too. They both
>have experience cleaning up messes left by their husbands...
>
>Cheers,
> -Jamie
> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
>DJ wrote:
>> Bill is most certainly running again......he's just wearing a dress this
>> time.
>>
>>
>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:45107e39@linux...
>>> Our situation is directly related to more than half a century of our
>>> decisions and actions, smart and stupid.
>>>
>>> It's of limited usefulness to hone in on the last administration as if
>>> that's the entire problem, surely you would have to take into account
>>> decisions made before then and since then.
>>>
>>> So while I agree with your point to an extent, it's insufficient to
>>> inoculate the current admin from its own significant problems.
>>>
>>> Bill and George aren't running again so we don't have to argue that one.
>>> I am not writing off either major party or a third party, but we need
a
>>> change on many levels.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> -Jamie
>>> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>
>>>
>>> DJ wrote:
>>>>> But again, merely pointing fingers backwards
>>>>> in no way excuses the mistakes and failures of the current government.
>>>> Our situation is directly related to the fact that our leaders based
>> their
>>>> decisions on disinformation that was a result of the policies of the
>> Clinton
>>>> administration. I'm not pointing the finger backwards for any other
>> reason
>>>> than I feel it is important to keep this in mind lest we elect the same
>>>> misguided souls with the same naieve and misguided foriegn policy ideas
>> to
>>>> office once again and end up in an even bigger mess.........and
>> yes.......it
>>>> could be much bigger if the liberals take control of the national
>>>> legislature.......much less, god forbid, having another Clinton in the
>> white
>>>> House.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:451035a7@linux...
>>>>> For most of the Clinton years the balance of power was divided between
>>>>> both parties. Again, there is plenty of finger pointing to go around.
>>>>> It's easy enough in hindsight to criticize the previous administration
>>>>> on a number of counts.
>>>>>
>>>>> And in retrospect, those dems made a mistake trusting Bush with that
>>>>> vote. OTOH, it was a moment of unity.
>>>>>
>>>>> Flash forward. Today all branches of national government are controlled
>>>>> by one party. It doesn't bother me if you want to point blame at some
>> of
>>>>> the policies under Clinton. But again, merely pointing fingers
>> backwards
>>>>> in no way excuses the mistakes and failures of the current government.
>>>>>
>>>>> They walked in stating in clear terms that they felt the previous
>>>>> government was wrong about almost everything, and then fell flat
>>>>> overall, domestically and internationally.
>>>>>
>>>>> Looking at both governments, we can do better. We must do better.
>>>>> At some point, and we're coming up on six years, the buck stops with
>>>>> those in charge now.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> DJ wrote:
>>>>>> The dems you mentioned authorized the military attack on Iraq as a
>> last
>>>>>> resort and I don't believe they were satisfied it was done as such.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How convenient for them when it was the intelligence service that
they
>>>>>> created over 8 years of hard work that they now attempt to slag and
>>>> blame
>>>>>> for their decisdions so they can vote for the war before they vote
>>>> against
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>> news:450f8aec@linux...
>>>>>>> There is plenty of finger pointing to go around. No doubt specific
>>>>>>> things could have been handled better under the previous government.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The transition of power between the previous and current governments
>>>> was
>>>>>>> pretty rocky, and a "not invented here" syndrome may have doomed
the
>>>>>>> hand-off of some al-Qaida related work that was in progress.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In any case, no government gets a pass by blaming the previous
>>>>>>> government. The current government, for example, failed to follow
>>>>>>> through and prioritize the al-Qaida threat ahead of 9/11 and failed
>> to
>>>>>>> prevent 9/11; failed to find and capture Bin Laden in Afghanistan;
>>>>>>> failed to overcome Taliban control of large areas of Afghanistan;
>>>>>>> allowed record drug production to reestablish itself there; failed
to
>>>>>>> plan for post Iraq invasion problems predicted by their own state
>>>>>>> department; and they have continually exploited the "war on
>> terrorism"
>>>>>>> for domestic political ends.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You assert the WMDs were there. However Bush's chief inspector, and
>>>> Bush
>>>>>>> himself, say they weren't there after all. It was a bluff. One of
the
>>>>>>> Iraqi expatriate promoters of the bluff got the ear of our
>> government,
>>>>>>> was believed, and, last I heard, had parlayed it into a position
of
>>>>>>> power in Iraq after the invasion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The dems you mentioned authorized the military attack on Iraq as
a
>> last
>>>>>>> resort and I don't believe they were satisfied it was done as such.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Preemptive invasion is new as part of the "Bush (Jr.) Doctrine."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> DJ wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:450f3862@linux...
>>>>>>>>> Neither, actually. And what we ought to do would depend on the
>> nature
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> the threat.
>>>>>>>> Agreed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We might want to start with recommendations published in 1999,
well
>>>>>>>>> before the 9/11 attack.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Commission_on_Terroris m
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We can disagree about whether our current policy is one of
>>>> overreacting
>>>>>>>>> or not. We can probably really disagree about the newly minted
>>>>>>>>> preemptive attack policy. :^)
>>>>>>>> I don't think there is any newly minted attack policy. There has
>>>> always
>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>> the *clear and present danger* perogative but it n
|
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| Re: OT:movie on 911-youve got to see this [message #71565 is a reply to message #71556] |
Mon, 21 August 2006 12:27 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
;>> made based on the intellegence blunders they created in the first
>>>> place.
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Deej
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>>>> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> DJ wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I don't see us overreacting Jamie. However, if there is indication
>>>> of
>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>> sort of major threat, do we run and tell the NY times or do we
>> blow
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> threat away before it pays us a visit?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:450f0b12@linux...
>>>>>>>>>>> Of course they came out with a blustery ultimatum. That's not
>> news,
>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>> an old pattern. It works for them to sit back and suggest that
>>>> others
>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>>>> something via terror-grams such as this. If it makes you afraid
>> as
>>>>>>>> well,
>>>>>>>>>>> my guess is they would see that as a bonus.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> By goading the USA into overreacting it helps them grow, raise
>>>> money
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> convince others to actually see us as evil and act accordingly.
>> It
>>>>>>>>>>> works, we keep falling for it. OTOH, for those here with a
>> d
|
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| Re: OT:movie on 911-youve got to see this [message #71574 is a reply to message #71551] |
Mon, 21 August 2006 13:40 |
Mark McDermott
Messages: 204
Registered: February 2006
Location: Portland, OR
|
Senior Member |
|
|
t;>>>>>>>>>>> analysis also explains the underlying cause of the alliance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> between the western Left and the Islamofascist Right.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Islamist reaction focuses on one sentence in the speech.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reaching back to 1391, Benedict quotes Byzantine Emperor
>>>> Manuel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> II: “Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and
>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his
>>>> command
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to spread by the sword the faith he preached.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Four days later, according to AP: “Pakistan's legislature
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unanimously condemned Pope Benedict XVI. Lebanon's top
>> Shiite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cleric demanded an apology. And in Turkey, the ruling party
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likened the pontiff to Hitler and Mussolini and accused
him
>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reviving the mentality of the Crusades.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Across the Islamic world Friday, Benedict's remarks on
>> Islam
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jihad in a speech in Germany unleashed a torrent of rage
>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many fear could burst into violent protests like those that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> followed publication of caricatures of the Prophet
>> Muhammad.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reuters quoted other sources expressing fears for the Pope’s
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> safety and even fear of an attack on Vatican City.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Islamist reaction proves Manuel II’s 600-year-old point.
>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reaction is not one of anger but a calculated attempt to
>> force
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Pope to parrot the PC line on Islam. Since Islam need
>> not
>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> internally consistent and it is not bound by reason, it’s
>> only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> objective can be to assert the power of a God who is so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transcendent that He is not bound by anything. If man is
>>>> created
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in God’s image then by extension Islamic man is not bound
by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything. (This explains the predilection on the part of
>> some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Muslims to lie.) Islamists are not responding to any
>> ‘offense’
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their non-existent morality. They are asserting the only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ‘morality’ they have—the will to power.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Will to Power” is a key element of Nietzsche ’s
>>>>>> philosophy—hence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the root of the term, Islamofascist. Moreover the Western
>>>> “Left’
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is today guided far more by Nietzsche existentialist thought
>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by Marxist thought—hence the alliance between the Western
>>>> “Left”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the Islamofascist ‘Right.’
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reuters quotes an Indian Muslim leader doing precisely what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Manuel II said they would: “Syed Ahmed Bukhari, the chief
>>>> cleric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of New Delhi's historic Jama Masjid, India's largest mosque,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extolled Muslims to ‘respond in a manner which forces the
>> Pope
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apologize.’” Note they intend to use “force” not reason.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reuters quotes an unnamed diplomat pointing out the Pope
>> was,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “calling a spade a spade”.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The secularist mouthpiece, New York Times,editorializes,
>> “Pope
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Benedict XVI has insulted Muslims….” This is false. The
>> Pope
>>>> ’s
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> description of the Islamic God as being unbound by reason
is
>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an insult, it is an Islamic article of faith. What Muslims
>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> secularists fear is the Pope’s decision to choose to enter
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dialogue asserting his belief in Christianity. How dare
he
>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “apologize” for being a Christian? That is the so-called
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “insult.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One might “reasonably” ask when will Muslims “apologize”
for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being Muslim? But they are not bound by reason to the point
>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lost on them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Amazingly the Times continues: “Muslim leaders the world
>> over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have demanded apologies… For many Muslims, holy war —
>> jihad —
>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a spiritual struggle, and not a call to violence.” In
>> saying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this, the Times implicitly recognizes the Islamists are
>> waging
>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> propaganda jihad against the Pope and by extension against
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christianity—and they explicitly endorse and join this
>> jihad.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Times is saying to Islamists, ‘we can join your
>> ‘spiritual
>>>> ’
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jihad, but not your violent jihad.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Times editors are living in a fool’s paradise. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “spiritual” non-violent jihad of propaganda is merely the
>> flip
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> side of the violent jihad. Nowhere is that more clear than
>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Islamist reaction to the Pope.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the Pope scheduled to visit Turkey in November the
>>>>>> Islamists
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are rejecting any apology from Vatican spokespersons and
>>>> demand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to hear from the Pope himself. This would place raging
mobs
>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> semi-literate Islamist thugs in the position of forcing
the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leader of Christendom to bow before them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this demand for submission they are joined by the
>>>> secularist
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mouthpiece. In its September 16 edition the Times
>>>>>> editorializes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “He needs to offer a deep and persuasive apology…” The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> secularists too seek the Pope’s submission. Like the
>>>> Islamists,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the secularists are driven only by their will to power.
>> While
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Islamists represent their demented version of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God--unrestrained by reason, the secularists represent their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> demented version of reason--unrestrained by God. They are
>>>>>> united
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by their self-worshipping world view.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It should be noted that the carefully staged “anger’ from
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Islamic world does not condemn Benedict’s characterization
>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Islam as a religion where God’s “will is not bound up with
>> any
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our categories, even that of rationality...(The Islamic)
God
>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not bound even by his own word….” This is not seen as an
>>>>>> insult.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Islam embraces this description. In offering this
>> description
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Islam, Benedict refers to the views of leading modern French
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Islamist R. Arnaldez as discussed in the writings of
>> Professor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Theodore Khoury of Munster.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Likewise the secularists express no dismay at the pope’s
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> characterization of a secularist as: “(A) subject (who)
>> then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decides, on the basis of his experiences, what he considers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tenable in matters of religion, and the subjective
>> ‘conscience
>>>> ’
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> becomes the sole arbiter of what is ethical.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Benedict asserts that without reason, or without God, there
>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be no modern system of morality. He explains, “In this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way…ethics and religion lose their power to create a
>> community
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and become (instead) a completely personal matter.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Both Islamist and secularist seek to break God and reason
>>>> apart.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Each claims superiority over the Christian West. They
>> believe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> absolute moral license makes them powerful. As
>> globalization
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carries the Western tradition of reason throughout the
>> world,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> both are in decline.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where the force of reason is defeated, Islamist and
>> secularist
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will meet in combat, just as Hitler’s fascists broke their
>>>> pact
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the Soviet Union, invading in June, 1941 after the
>>>> collapse
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the allied forces on the western front.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What the Islamists and the New York Times both fear is
>> having
>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reply to the Pope’s key point, borrowed from the Byzantine
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Emperor: “‘Not to act reasonably, not to act with logos
>> (word
>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reason) is contrary to the nature of God,’.… It is to this
>>>>>> great
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> logos, to this breadth of reason, that we invite our
>> partners
>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the dialogue of cultures.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Their fear of reason can only lead the world to disaster.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>dat's the one
AA
"Uptown Jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:4510babe@linux...
> Ummm.....I'm too poor to afford a video cam.
>
> To be honest, EMU discontinuing Paris was one of the best things that ever
> happened to me. Cheap parts, ya know....
>
> By "pause key", you mean the key that says "pause" & "break"?
>
> I know I seem ignernt. I'm sorry.
>
> Jimmy
>
>
>
> "Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote in message
> news:451090ed@linux...
>> er.. do you know you can hit the pause key on the keyboard and stop it?
> Just
>> hit the spacebar when you're ready to go again.
>> Sorry I didn't mention that before. Or alternately you could point a
>> video
>> cam at it.
>>
>> AA
>>
>>
>> "Uptown Jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> news:45107fd4$1@linux...
>> > Like I said before, that particular screen flashes by almost
> subliminally.
>> >
>> > I had great success today with one EDS card, trying it in one PCI slot
> at
>> > a
>> > time, all four PCI slots, no problems. I'll throw all four in there and
>> > see
>> > what happens. I'll check the msinfo thingie befoe I boot up Paris. It
> will
>> > tell me if IRQs are shared, right?
>> >
>> > Jimmy
>> >
>> > "John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:4510657c@linux...
>> >>
>> >> During boot up does your bios show you what IRQ's it is assigning to
> your
>> >> card? It might say "multimedia device" or something like that.
> There's
>> >> no routine, you can put as many eds cards in as long as EVERY slot you
>> >> put
>> >> them in is not shared with other devices. If the slot is shared with
>> > stuff
>> >> like onboard audio, usb etc turn them off in the bios to free the slot
>> > from
>> >> IRQ conflicts if you will be using that slot.
>> >>
>> >> If you can see irq info on bootup you can try each slot and see what
>> >> comes
>> >> up as shared. Also, run msinfo32.exe from Start / Run and see what
> IRQs
>> >> are doing what under Hardware.
>> >>
>> >> It's all about the god damn irqs !!!
>> >>
>> >> "Uptown Jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> >> >I have a one-card system going smoothly, with the EDS card in slot 3
> of
>> >> 4.
>> >> >Still unable to get through to the Asus people about IRQs, still
> trying.
>> >> >
>> >> >Today I will try the one EDS card in the other three slots, one by
> one.
>> >> If
>> >> >things go well in each slot, can I just throw all four of my EDS
>> >> >cards
>> >> >in
>> >> >their at once (I still have the four of them linked together with
> little
>> >> EDS
>> >> >cables, just the same as I pulled them out), or is there some special
>> >> >routine I have to follow? The manual doesn't make utter sense to me
>> >> >on
>> > this
>> >> >point, somehow...
>> >> >
>> >> >Jimmy
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>"Uptown Jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>Man.
>
>I'm sorry, DJ. You've been good to me, and I don't mean to offend you, but
I
>don't quite understand what you're trying to say.
>
>Not that I don't pay attention to things, usually....
>
>I just think people ought to have to take responsibility for their own
>actions.
>
>And I don't recall Slick Willy invading Iraq.
>
>Guess I'm just ignernt.
>
>Jimmy
>
>
>"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
>news:45109ebf@linux...
>> No. I think the situation in Iraq, as it stands right now, is a result
of
>> the left undercutting the administration at every turn and thereby giving
>> aid and encouragement to our enemies who, when they see the country so
>> divided, can take it to the bank that the left will do their fair share
to
>> defeat our efforts. I'm just blaming the intelligence deficit and the
lack
>> of leadership that led to the UN sanctions being undercut at every turn
on
>> Clinton, otherwise the war that started in 1991, would not still be
>> happening. Thius is a war that never stopped. It could have if Clinton
>would
>> have had his eye on the ball and exercised some of the great
>*international
>> leadership* that his supporters fantisize so much about.........but he
>> didn't. He allowed the sanctions to be undercut by *our allies*.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Uptown Jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> news:45108022@linux...
>> > So...you're blaming the situation in Iraq on Bill Clinton? Is that
>right?
>> >
>> > Cuz that seems absurd to me.
>> >
>> > Just sayin'.
>> >
>> > Jimmy
>> >
>> >
>> > "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
>> > news:4510721c@linux...
>> > > >But again, merely pointing fingers backwards
>> > > >in no way excuses the mistakes and failures of the current
>government.
>> > >
>> > > Our situation is directly related to the fact that our leaders based
>> their
>> > > decisions on disinformation that was a result of the policies of the
>> > Clinton
>> > > administration. I'm not pointing the finger backwards for any other
>> reason
>> > > than I feel it is important to keep this in mind lest we elect the
>same
>> > > misguided souls with the same naieve and misguided foriegn policy
>ideas
>> to
>> > > office once again and end up in an even bigger mess.........and
>> > yes.......it
>> > > could be much bigger if the liberals take control of the national
>> > > legislature.......much less, god forbid, having another Clinton in
the
>> > white
>> > > House.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>news:451035a7@linux...
>> > > >
>> > > > For most of the Clinton years the balance of power was divided
>between
>> > > > both parties. Again, there is plenty of finger pointing to go
>around.
>> > > > It's easy enough in hindsight to criticize the previous
>administration
>> > > > on a number of counts.
>> > > >
>> > > > And in retrospect, those dems made a mistake trusting Bush with
that
>> > > > vote. OTOH, it was a moment of unity.
>> > > >
>> > > > Flash forward. Today all branches of national government are
>> controlled
>> > > > by one party. It doesn't bother me if you want to point blame at
>some
>> of
>> > > > the policies under Clinton. But again, merely pointing fingers
>> backwards
>> > > > in no way excuses the mistakes and failures of the current
>government.
>> > > >
>> > > > They walked in stating in clear terms that they felt the previous
>> > > > government was wrong about almost everything, and then fell flat
>> > > > overall, domestically and internationally.
>> > > >
>> > > > Looking at both governments, we can do better. We must do better.
>> > > > At some point, and we're coming up on six years, the buck stops
with
>> > > > those in charge now.
>> > > >
>> > > > Cheers,
>> > > > -Jamie
>> > > > http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > DJ wrote:
>> > > > > The dems you mentioned authorized the military attack on Iraq
as a
>> > last
>> > > > > resort and I don't believe they were satisfied it was done as
>such.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > How convenient for them when it was the intelligence service that
>> they
>> > > > > created over 8 years of hard work that they now attempt to slag
>and
>> > > blame
>> > > > > for their decisdions so they can vote for the war before they
vote
>> > > against
>> > > > > it.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>> > news:450f8aec@linux...
>> > > > >> There is plenty of finger pointing to go around. No doubt
>specific
>> > > > >> things could have been handled better under the previous
>> government.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> The transition of power between the previous and current
>> governments
>> > > was
>> > > > >> pretty rocky, and a "not invented here" syndrome may have doomed
>> the
>> > > > >> hand-off of some al-Qaida related work that was in progress.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> In any case, no government gets a pass by blaming the previous
>> > > > >> government. The current government, for example, failed to follow
>> > > > >> through and prioritize the al-Qaida threat ahead of 9/11 and
>failed
>> > to
>> > > > >> prevent 9/11; failed to find and capture Bin Laden in
>Afghanistan;
>> > > > >> failed to overcome Taliban control of large areas of Afghanistan;
>> > > > >> allowed record drug production to reestablish itself there;
>failed
>> to
>> > > > >> plan for post Iraq invasion problems predicted by their own state
>> > > > >> department; and they have continually exploited the "war on
>> > terrorism"
>> > > > >> for domestic political ends.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> You assert the WMDs were there. However Bush's chief inspector,
>and
>> > > Bush
>> > > > >> himself, say they weren't there after all. It was a bluff. One
of
>> the
>> > > > >> Iraqi expatriate promoters of the bluff got the ear of our
>> > government,
>> > > > >> was believed, and, last I heard, had parlayed it into a position
>of
>> > > > >> power in Iraq after the invasion.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> The dems you mentioned authorized the military attack on Iraq
as
>a
>> > last
>> > > > >> resort and I don't believe they were satisfied it was done as
>such.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Preemptive invasion is new as part of the "Bush (Jr.) Doctrine."
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Cheers,
>> > > > >> -Jamie
>> > > > >> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> DJ wrote:
>> > > > >>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>> > > news:450f3862@linux...
>> > > > >>>> Neither, actually. And what we ought to do would depend on
the
>> > nature
>> > > > > of
>> > > > >>>> the threat.
>> > > > >>> Agreed.
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>>> We might want to start with recommendations published in 1999,
>> well
>> > > > >>>> before the 9/11 attack.
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Commission_on_Terroris m
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>> We can disagree about whether our current policy is one of
>> > > overreacting
>> > > > >>>> or not. We can probably really disagree about the newly minted
>> > > > >>>> preemptive attack policy. :^)
>> > > > >>> I don't think there is any newly minted attack policy. There
has
>> > > always
>> > > > > been
>> > > > >>> the *clear and present danger* perogative but it needs to be
>based
>> > on
>> > > > >>> accurate intelligence. Had this been available, then I doubt
>that
>> > > Bush,
>> > > > >>> Kerry, Kennedy Pelosi and the rest would have authorized the
>> > invasion
>> > > of
>> > > > >>> Iraq, or perhaps they would have been able to find the WMD's
>> before
>> > > they
>> > > > >>> were shipped out of the country or hidden. I just find it hard
>to
>> > > > > stomach
>> > > > >>> the hypocracy of the democrats whose policies neutered our
>> > > intelligence
>> > > > >>> services in the '90's when they trun around and blame Bush for
>the
>> > > > > decisions
>> > > > >>> made based on the intellegence blunders they created in the
>first
>> > > place.
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>> Regards,
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>> Deej
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>>> Cheers,
>> > > > >>>> -Jamie
>> > > > >>>> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>> DJ wrote:
>> > > > >>>>> I don't see us overreacting Jamie. However, if there is
>> indication
>> > > of
>> > > > >>> some
>> > > > >>>>> sort of major threat, do we run and tell the NY times or do
we
>> > blow
>> > > > > the
>> > > > >>>>> threat away before it pays us a visit?
>> > > > >>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>
>> > > > >>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>> > > > > news:450f0b12@linux...
>> > > > >>>>>> Of course they came out with a blustery ultimatum. That's
not
>> > news,
>> > > > >>> it's
>> > > > >>>>>> an old pattern. It works for them to sit back and suggest
>that
>> > > others
>> > > > >>> do
>> > > > >>>>>> something via terror-grams such as this. If it makes you
>afraid
>> > as
>> > > > >>> well,
>> > > > >>>>>> my guess is they would see that as a bonus.
>> > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>> By goading the USA into overreacting it helps them grow,
>raise
>> > > money
>> > > > >>> and
>> > > > >>>>>> convince others to actually see us as evil and act
>accordingly.
>> > It
>> > > > >>>>>> works, we keep falling for it. OTOH, for those here with
a
>> > declared
>> > > > >>>>>> interest in emptying the US treasury, it's likewise
>beneficial
>> to
>> > > > > have
>> > > > >>>>>> the specter of an enemy out there. Fear sells.
>> > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>> We have yet to actually declare war on anyone in this whole
>> mess.
>> > > How
>> > > > >>> do
>> > > > >>>>>> you declare war on a tactic?
>> > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>> Forced conversion and head taxes would go over like a lead
>> > balloon
>> > > in
>> > > > >>>>>> the USA. Not gonna happen. We're far more sectarian than,
>say,
>> > > Iraq.
>> > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>> Responsible leadership is needed in the world to calm
>extremist
>> > > > >>>>>> tendencies on all sides and help rational people who are
>trying
>> > to
>> > > > > get
>> > > > >>>>>> by in worsening times. At the same time we need to be, and
>are
>> > > > >>>>>> attempting to be, vigilant against any self righteous group
>> with
>> > > > >>>>>> fantasies of violence in the USA.
>> > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>> Any rush to some sort of "holy war" is irrational. There
is
>> > nothing
>> > > > >>> holy
>> > > > >>>>>> about war.
>> > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>> Cheers,
>> > > > >>>>>> -Jamie
>> > > > >>>>>> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>> > > > >>>>>>
>> >
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT:movie on 911-youve got to see this [message #71582 is a reply to message #71574] |
Mon, 21 August 2006 14:28 |
"jjdpro
Messages: 1
Registered: August 2006
|
Junior Member |
|
|
gt;> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> "Across the Islamic world Friday, Benedict's remarks
on
>> > Islam
>> > > > > and
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> jihad in a speech in Germany unleashed a torrent of
rage
>> > that
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> many fear could burst into violent protests like those
>> that
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> followed publication of caricatures of the Prophet
>> > Muhammad."
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Reuters quoted other sources expressing fears for the
>> Pope's
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> safety and even fear of an attack on Vatican City.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> The Islamist reaction proves Manuel II's 600-year-old
>> point.
>> > > > > The
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> reaction is not one of anger but a calculated attempt
to
>> > force
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the Pope to parrot the PC line on Islam. Since Islam
>need
>> > not
>> > > be
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> internally consistent and it is not bound by reason,
>it's
>> > only
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> objective can be to assert the power of a God who is
so
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> transcendent that He is not bound by anything. If man
is
>> > > created
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> in God's image then by extension Islamic man is not
>bound
>> by
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> anything. (This explains the predilection on the part
>of
>> > some
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Muslims to lie.) Islamists are not responding to any
>> > 'offense'
>> > > > > to
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> their non-existent morality. They are asserting the
>only
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 'morality' they have-the will to power.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> "Will to Power" is a key element of Nietzsche 's
>> > > > > philosophy-hence
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the root of the term, Islamofascist. Moreover the
>Western
>> > > "Left'
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> is today guided far more by Nietzsche existentialist
>> thought
>> > > > > than
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> by Marxist thought-hence the alliance between the
>Western
>> > > "Left"
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> and the Islamofascist 'Right.'
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Reuters quotes an Indian Muslim leader doing precisely
>> what
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Manuel II said they would: "Syed Ahmed Bukhari, the
>chief
>> > > cleric
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> of New Delhi's historic Jama Masjid, India's largest
>> mosque,
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> extolled Muslims to 'respond in a manner which forces
>the
>> > Pope
>> > > > > to
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> apologize.'" Note they intend to use "force" not
>reason.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Reuters quotes an unnamed diplomat pointing out the
Pope
>> > was,
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> "calling a spade a spade".
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> The secularist mouthpiece, New York Times,editorializes,
>> > "Pope
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Benedict XVI has insulted Muslims.." This is false.
>The
>> > Pope
>> > > 's
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> description of the Islamic God as being unbound by
>reason
>> is
>> > > not
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> an insult, it is an Islamic article of faith. What
>> Muslims
>> > > and
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> secularists fear is the Pope's decision to choose to
>enter
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> dialogue asserting his belief in Christianity. How
dare
>> he
>> > > not
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> "apologize" for being a Christian? That is the
>so-called
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> "insult."
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> One might "reasonably" ask when will Muslims "apologize"
>> for
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> being Muslim? But they are not bound by reason to the
>> point
>> > is
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> lost on them.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Amazingly the Times continues: "Muslim leaders the world
>> > over
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> have demanded apologies. For many Muslims, holy war
-
>> > jihad -
>> > > is
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> a spiritual struggle, and not a call to violence."
In
>> > saying
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> this, the Times implicitly recognizes the Islamists
are
>> > waging
>> > > a
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> propaganda jihad against the Pope and by extension
>against
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Christianity-and they explicitly endorse and join this
>> > jihad.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> The Times is saying to Islamists, 'we can join your
>> > 'spiritual
>> > > '
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> jihad, but not your violent jihad.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> The Times editors are living in a fool's paradise.
The
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> "spiritual" non-violent jihad of propaganda is merely
>the
>> > flip
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> side of the violent jihad. Nowhere is that more clear
>> than
>> > in
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the Islamist reaction to the Pope.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> With the Pope scheduled to visit Turkey in November
the
>> > > > > Islamists
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> are rejecting any apology from Vatican spokespersons
and
>> > > demand
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> to hear from the Pope himself. This would place raging
>> mobs
>> > > of
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> semi-literate Islamist thugs in the position of forcing
>> the
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> leader of Christendom to bow before them.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> In this demand for submission they are joined by the
>> > > secularist
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> mouthpiece. In its September 16 edition the Times
>> > > > > editorializes:
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> "He needs to offer a deep and persuasive apology."
The
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> secularists too seek the Pope's submission. Like the
>> > > Islamists,
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the secularists are driven only by their will to power.
>> > While
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the Islamists represent their demented version of
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> God--unrestrained by reason, the secularists represent
>> their
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> demented version of reason--unrestrained by God. They
>are
>> > > > > united
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> by their self-worshipping world view.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> It should be noted that the carefully staged "anger'
>from
>> > the
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Islamic world does not condemn Benedict's
>characterization
>> > of
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Islam as a religion where God's "will is not bound up
>with
>> > any
>> > > > > of
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> our categories, even that of rationality...(The Islamic)
>> God
>> > > is
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> not bound even by his own word.." This is not seen
as
>an
>> > > > > insult.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Islam embraces this description. In offering this
>> > description
>> > > > > of
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Islam, Benedict refers to the views of leading modern
>> French
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Islamist R. Arnaldez as discussed in the writings of
>> > Professor
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Theodore Khoury of Munster.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Likewise the secularists express no dismay at the pope's
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> characterization of a secularist as: "(A) subject (who)
>> > then
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> decides, on the basis of his experiences, what he
>> considers
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> tenable in matters of religion, and the subjective
>> > 'conscience
>> > > '
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> becomes the sole arbiter of what is ethical."
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Benedict asserts that without reason, or without God,
>> there
>> > > can
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> be no modern system of morality. He explains, "In this
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> way.ethics and religion lose their power to create a
>> > community
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> and become (instead) a completely personal matter."
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Both Islamist and secularist seek to break God and
>reason
>> > > apart.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Each claims superiority over the Christian West. They
>> > believe
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> absolute moral license makes them powerful. As
>> > globalization
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> carries the Western tradition of reason throughout the
>> > world,
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> both are in decline.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Where the force of reason is defeated, Islamist and
>> > secularist
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> will meet in combat, just as Hitler's fascists broke
>their
>> > > pact
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> with the Soviet Union, invading in June, 1941 after
the
>> > > collapse
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> of the allied forces on the western front.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> What the Islamists and the New York Times both fear
is
>> > having
>> > > to
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> reply to the Pope's key point, borrowed from the
>Byzantine
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Emperor: "'Not to act reasonably, not to act with logos
>> > (word
>> > > > > or
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> reason) is contrary to the nature of God,'.. It is
to
>> this
>> > > > > great
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> logos, to this breadth of reason, that we invite our
>> > partners
>> > > in
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the dialogue of cultures."
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Their fear of reason can only lead the world to
>disaster.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>Hi Jimmy,
No offense taken here. My point is that we are finishing a war that was
started by Sadaam, not Bush. It was never brought to any conclusion be3cause
the sanctions that were put in place to do this were circumvented and this
was during Clinton's administration. Clinton also instituted a policy
wherein our CIA couldn't work with anyone who had any taint of human rights
abuses and also did everything they could to keep the various intelligence
service and the domestic intelligence services from sharing information.
All
of these things played a huge part in what happened on 9-11 and the crappy
intelligence was what we based the decision on to go in and finish the gulf
war that Sadaam started. Had we accurate intelligence, I'll bet things would
have been handled much differently. You may not agree with this and that's
OK. I'm not going to flog it anymore or Kim's gonna get pissed off at me
and
I might die.
I've said my piece here. If you want to discuss this off the group it's
animix@animas.net.
Regards,
Deej
"Deej" <animix@animass.netttt> wrote:
>
>"Uptown Jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>Man.
>>
>>I'm sorry, DJ. You've been good to me, and I don't mean to offend you,
but
>I
>>don't quite understand what you're trying to say.
>>
>>Not that I don't pay attention to things, usually....
>>
>>I just think people ought to have to take responsibility for their own
>>actions.
>>
>>And I don't recall Slick Willy invading Iraq.
>>
>>Guess I'm just ignernt.
>>
>>Jimmy
>>
>>
>>"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
>>news:45109ebf@linux...
>>> No. I think the situation in Iraq, as it stands right now, is a result
>of
>>> the left undercutting the administration at every turn and thereby giving
>>> aid and encouragement to our enemies who, when they see the country so
>>> divided, can take it to the bank that the left will do their fair share
>to
>>> defeat our efforts. I'm just blaming the intelligence deficit and the
>lack
>>> of leadership that led to the UN sanctions being undercut at every turn
>on
>>> Clinton, otherwise the war that started in 1991, would not still be
>>> happening. Thius is a war that never stopped. It could have if Clinton
>>would
>>> have had his eye on the ball and exercised some of the great
>>*international
>>> leadership* that his supporters fantisize so much about.........but he
>>> didn't. He allowed the sanctions to be undercut by *our allies*.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Uptown Jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>>> news:45108022@linux...
>>> > So...you're blaming the situation in Iraq on Bill Clinton? Is that
>>right?
>>> >
>>> > Cuz that seems absurd to me.
>>> >
>>> > Just sayin'.
>>> >
>>> > Jimmy
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
>>> > news:4510721c@linux...
>>> > > >But again, merely pointing fingers backwards
>>> > > >in no way excuses the mistakes and failures of the current
>>government.
>>> > >
>>> > > Our situation is directly related to the fact that our leaders based
>>> their
>>> > > decisions on disinformation that was a result of the policies of
the
>>> > Clinton
>>> > > administration. I'm not pointing the finger backwards for any other
>>> reason
>>> > > than I feel it is important to keep this in mind lest we elect the
>>same
>>> > > misguided souls with the same naieve and misguided foriegn policy
>>ideas
>>> to
>>> > > office once again and end up in an even bigger mess.........and
>>> > yes.......it
>>> > > could be much bigger if the liberals take control of the national
>>> > > legislature.......much less, god forbid, having another Clinton in
>the
>>> > white
>>> > > House.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>news:451035a7@linux...
>>> > > >
>>> > > > For most of the Clinton years the balance of power was divided
>>between
>>> > > > both parties. Again, there is plenty of finger pointing to go
>>around.
>>> > > > It's easy enough in hindsight to criticize the previous
>>administration
>>> > > > on a number of counts.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > And in retrospect, those dems made a mistake trusting Bush with
>that
>>> > > > vote. OTOH, it was a moment of unity.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Flash forward. Today all branches of national government are
>>> controlled
>>> > > > by one party. It doesn't bother me if you want to point blame at
>>some
>>> of
>>> > > > the policies under Clinton. But again, merely pointing fingers
>>> backwards
>>> > > > in no way excuses the mistakes and failures of the current
>>government.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > They walked in stating in clear terms that they felt the previous
>>> > > > government was wrong about almost everything, and then fell flat
>>> > > > overall, domestically and internationally.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Looking at both governments, we can do better. We must do better.
>>> > > > At some point, and we're coming up on six years, the buck stops
>with
>>> > > > those in charge now.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Cheers,
>>> > > > -Jamie
>>> > > > http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > DJ wrote:
>>> > > > > The dems you mentioned authorized the military attack on Iraq
>as a
>>> > last
>>> > > > > resort and I don't believe they were satisfied it was done as
>>such.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > How convenient for them when it was the intelligence service
that
>>> they
>>> > > > > created over 8 years of hard work that they now attempt to slag
>>and
>>> > > blame
>>> > > > > for their decisdions so they can vote for the war before they
>vote
>>> > > against
>>> > > > > it.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>> > news:450f8aec@linux...
>>> > > > >> There is plenty of finger pointing to go around. No doubt
>>specific
>>> > > > >> things could have been handled better under the previous
>>> government.
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >> The transition of power between the previous and current
>>> governments
>>> > > was
>>> > > > >> pretty rocky, and a "not invented here" syndrome may have doomed
>>> the
>>> > > > >> hand-off of some al-Qaida related work that was in progress.
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >> In any case, no government gets a pass by blaming the previous
>>> > > > >> government. The current government, for example, failed to follow
>>> > > > >> through and prioritize the al-Qaida threat ahead of 9/11 and
>>failed
>>> > to
>>> > > > >> prevent 9/11; failed to find and capture Bin Laden in
>>Afghanistan;
>>> > > > >> failed to overcome Taliban control of large areas of Afghanistan;
>>> > > > >> allowed record drug production to reestablish itself there;
>>failed
>>> to
>>> > > > >> plan for post Iraq invasion problems predicted by their own
state
>>> > > > >> department; and they have continually exploited the "war on
>>> > terrorism"
>>> > > > >> for domestic political ends.
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >> You assert the WMDs were there. However Bush's chief inspector,
>>and
>>> > > Bush
>>> > > > >> himself, say they weren't there after all. It was a bluff. One
>of
>>> the
>>> > > > >> Iraqi expatriate promoters of the bluff got the ear of our
>>> > government,
>>> > > > >> was believed, and, last I heard, had parlayed it into a position
>>of
>>> > > > >> power in Iraq after the invasion.
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >> The dems you mentioned authorized the military attack on Iraq
>as
>>a
>>> > last
>>> > > > >> resort and I don't believe they were satisfied it was done as
>>such.
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >> Preemptive invasion is new as part of the "Bush (Jr.) Doctrine."
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >> Cheers,
>>> > > > >> -Jamie
>>> > > > >> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >> DJ wrote:
>>> > > > >>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>> > > news:450f3862@linux...
>>> > > > >>>> Neither, actually. And what we ought to do would depend on
>the
>>> > nature
>>> > > > > of
>>> > > > >>>> the threat.
>>> > > > >>> Agreed.
>>> > > > >>>
>>> > > > >>>> We might want to start with recommendations published in 1999,
>>> well
>>> > > > >>>> before the 9/11 attack.
>>> > > > >>>>
>>> > > > >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Commission_on_Terroris m
>>> > > > >>>>
>>> > > > >>>> We can disagree about whether our current policy is one of
>>> > > overreacting
>>> > > > >>>> or not. We can probably really disagree about the newly minted
>>> > > > >>>> preemptive attack policy. :^)
>>> > > > >>> I don't think there is any newly minted attack policy. There
>has
>>> > > always
>>> > > > > been
>>> > > > >>> the *clear and present danger* perogative but it needs to be
>>based
>>> > on
>>> > > > >>> accurate intelligence. Had this been available, then I doubt
>>that
>>> > > Bush,
>>> > > > >>> Kerry, Kennedy Pelosi and the rest would have authorized the
>>> > invasion
>>> > > of
>>> > > > >>> Iraq, or perhaps they would have been able to find the WMD's
>>> before
>>> > > they
>>> > > > >>> were shipped out of the country or hidden. I just find it hard
>>to
>>> > > > > stomach
>>> > > > >>> the hypocracy of the democrats whose policies neutered our
>>> > > intelligence
>>> > > > >>> services in the '90's when they trun around and blame Bush
for
>>the
>>> > > > > decisions
>>> > > > >>> made based on the intellegence blunders they created in the
>>first
>>> > > place.
>>> > > > >>>
>>> > > > >>> Regards,
>>> > > > >>>
>>> > > > >>> Deej
>>> > > > >>>
>>> > > > >>>
>>> > > > >>>> Cheers,
>>> > > > >>>> -Jamie
>>> > > > >>>> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>>> > > > >>>>
>>> > > > >>>>
>>> > > > >>>> DJ wrote:
>>> > > > >>>>> I don't see us overreacting Jamie. However, if there is
>>> indication
>>> > > of
>>> > > > >>> some
>>> > > > >>>>> sort of major threat, do we run and tell the NY times or
do
>we
>>> > blow
>>> > > > > the
>>> > > > >>>>> threat away before it pays us a visit?
>>> > > > >>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>> > > > > news:450f0b12@linux...
>>> > > > >>>>>> Of course they came out with a blustery ultimatum. That's
>not
>>> > news,
>>> > > > >>> it's
>>> > > > >>>>>> an old pattern. It works for them to sit back and suggest
>>that
>>> > > others
>>> > > > >>> do
>>> > > > >>>>>> something via terror-grams such as this. If it makes you
>>afraid
>>> > as
>>> > > > >>> well,
>>> > > > >>>>>> my guess is they would see that as a bonus.
>>> > > > >>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>> By goading the USA into overreacting it helps them grow,
>>raise
>>> > > money
>>> > > > >>> and
>>> > > > >>>>>> convince others to actually see us as evil and act
>>accordingly.
>>> > It
>>> > > > >>>>>> works, we keep falling for it. OTOH, for those here with
>a
>>> > declared
>>> > > > >>>>>> interest in emptying the US treasury, it's likewise
>>beneficial
>>> to
>>> > > > > have
>>> > > > >>>>>> the specter of an enemy out there. Fear sells.
>>> > > > >>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>> We have yet to actually declare war on anyone in this whole
>>> mess.
>>> > > How
>>> > > > >>> do
>>> > > > >>>>>> you declare war on a tactic?
>>> > > > >>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>> Forced conversion and head taxes would go over like a lead
>>> > balloon
>>> > > in
>>> > > > >>>>>> the USA. Not gonna happen. We're far more sectarian than,
>>say,
>>> > > Iraq.
>>> > > > >>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>> Responsible leadership is needed in the world to calm
>>extremist
>>> > > > >>>>>> tendencies on all sides and help rational people who are
>>trying
>>> > to
>>> > > > > get
>>> > > > >>>>>> by in worsening times. At the same time we need to be, and
>>are
>>> > > > >>>>>> attempting to be, vigilant against any self righteous group
>>> with
>>> > > > >>>>>> fantasies of violence in the USA.
>>> > > > >>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>> Any rush to some sort of "holy war" is irrational. There
>is
>>> > nothing
>>> > > > >>> holy
>>> > > > >>>>>> about war.
>>> > > > >>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>> Cheers,
>>> > > > >>>>>> -Jamie
>>> > > > >>>>>> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>>> > > > >>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>> DJ wrote:
>>> > > > >>>>>>> I haven't seen us react with irrationality.............yet.
>>> Al
>>> > > > > Quaeda
>>> > > > >>>>> just
>>> > > > >>>>>>> came out with an ultimatim stating that it's full on war
>now
>>> and
>>> > > the
>>> > > > >>>>> west
>>> > > > >>>>>>> will be destroyed. The only way to save ourselves is to
>>> convert
>>> > to
>>> > > > >>>>> Islam. So
>>> > > > >>>>>>> where to you draw the line between irrationality and self
>>> > defense?
>>> > > > >>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>> > > > >>> news:450ee7ef@linux...
>>> > > > >>>>>>>> Let's keep from reacting to irrationality with
>>irrationality
>>> of
>>> > > our
>>> > > > >>>>> own.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>> There's a lot of fear mongering. Chicken Little is back.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>> > > > >>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>> > > > >>>>>>>> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>> DJ wrote:
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> It doesn't matter at all whether this was the Pope. The
>>> bottom
>>> > > > > line
>>> > > > >>> is
>>> > > > >>>>>>> that
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> it is rationality as opposed to irrationality.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message
>>> > > > >>>>> news:450ec970@linux...
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> The Catholic church doesn't speak for Christianity.
>>> Certainly
>>> > > not
>>> > > > >>> for
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Lutherans, and for good reason.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> A Pope criticizing other religions (even other Christian
>>> > sects,
>>> > > > >>> even
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> other Catholics) is nothing new. Certainly much harsher
>>> > things
>>> > > > > have
>>> > > > >>>>>>> been
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> said about Islam by some (not all) extreme fundamentalist
>>> > > > >>> Christians.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> And certainly much harsher things have been said by
>>certain
>>> > > > >>> extremist
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Islamists about Christianity. The more extremist of
both
>>> > camps
>>> > > > > seem
>>> > > > >>>>> to
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> be spoiling to relive the crusades. With some of the
>more
>>> > power
>>> > > > >>>>> hungry
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> ready to endanger civilization by attempting to incite
>>> > > religious
>>> > > > >>> wars
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> for their own questionable
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT:movie on 911-youve got to see this [message #71583 is a reply to message #71574] |
Mon, 21 August 2006 14:37 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
ends.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> It's a vast generalization to say the "the left" or
>>> > > "secularists"
>>> > > > >>> or
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> even "Christians" are demanding an apology from the
Pope.
>>I
>>> > > think
>>> > > > > a
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> whole lot of people think the Pope can say whatever
he
>>> wants.
>>> > > It
>>> > > > >>>>>>> doesn't
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> matter to most non-Catholics in the USA and in reality,
>>> Papal
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> declarations are ignored by a fair number of Catholics
>>> here,
>>> > > too.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Obviously some Moslems are upset in some places, but
>how
>>> deep
>>> > > > > does
>>> > > > >>>>> that
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> go? When black churches were burning in the USA, it
would
>>> > have
>>> > > > > been
>>> > > > >>>>> an
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> exaggeration to blame everyone in the USA for that.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> The fear of reason extends to the Catholic church which
>>> only
>>> > > very
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> recently apologized for the oppression of Galileo. The
>>> church
>>> > > > > hung
>>> > > > >>> on
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> tenaciously to the dogma of an earth-centered view of
>the
>>> > > > > universe
>>> > > > >>>>>>> while
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> denying the heliocentric theory of Copernicus, which
>>> > describes
>>> > > > > the
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> actual way the solar system works.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> It also extends to a few Christian sects who, feeling
>>> > similarly
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> insecure, tenaciously cling to the notion that the earth
>>is
>>> > > only
>>> > > > >>>>> about
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> 6,000 years old, by virtue of the biblical
>>interpretations
>>> > and
>>> > > > >>> clever
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> (at the time) calculations of an Irish Bishop several
>>> > centuries
>>> > > > >>> ago,
>>> > > > >>>>>>> and
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> in the face of solid current scientific evidence to
the
>>> > > contrary.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> The fear of reason extends to some (not all) Christian
>>> > churches
>>> > > > >>> who,
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> feeling similarly insecure, deny the solid and
>>> ever-mounting
>>> > > > >>> evidence
>>> > > > >>>>>>> of
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> evolution, responding with dogma in psuedo-scientific
>>> > clothing,
>>> > > > > and
>>> > > > >>>>> who
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> seek to water down scientific education in the USA.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> The fear of reason extends to power hungry industries
>who
>>> pay
>>> > > big
>>> > > > >>>>> bucks
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> to spread denial about global warming for short term
>>gain.
>>> > Who
>>> > > > > push
>>> > > > >>>>> to
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> control oil in the middle east with force. With our
guns
>>> > > blazing,
>>> > > > >>> our
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> soldiers dying and our debt rising astronomically. And
>>who
>>> > > > >>> sometimes
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> hide behind Christianity to do so.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> The fear of reason extends to some neoconservatives
who
>>> find
>>> > > ways
>>> > > > >>> to
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> pretend that everyone is aligning against Christianity.
>>And
>>> > in
>>> > > > >>>>>>> spreading
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> this fear attempt to incite Christians to vote to keep
>>them
>>> > in
>>> > > > >>> power.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> And in so pandering, help to continue the denial of
>>reason
>>> > and
>>> > > > > the
>>> > > > >>>>>>> focus
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> on the use of force.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Not that I'll change your mind, DC, so go ahead and
>>declare
>>> > > > >>> victory.
>>> > > > >>>>>>> ;^)
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Have a great week!
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> DC wrote:
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> I thought this was worth reading if any of you are
>>> > interested.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Have a great Monday!
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> The Unholy Alliance Rolls Over the Pope
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> By Andrew Walden
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> In what has suddenly been made into a highly
>>controversial
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> speech, the day after September 11, at Bavaria's
>>> University
>>> > of
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Regensberg, Pope Benedict describes Christian belief
>in
>>a
>>> > God
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> whose words and acts are bound by reason, truth and
>the
>>> law
>>> > of
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> non-contradiction. Benedict contrasts this with Islamic
>>> > > belief
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> in a God not bound by anything-including his own words.
>>> > > > > Benedict
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> further contrasts Christian belief with that of secular
>>> > > > > humanists
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> who see reason as being completely unbound of God.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> In response, both Islamists and secularists have
>>demanded
>>> > the
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Pope apologize. Benedict's speech is a work of
>>enlightened
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> genius. He has clearly laid out the differences between
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Christian culture and Islamic culture and the basis
>of
>>the
>>> > > clash
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> of civilizations we now experience as the War on Terror.
>>> His
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> analysis also explains the underlying cause of the
>>> alliance
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> between the western Left and the Islamofascist Right.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Islamist reaction focuses on one sentence in the speech.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Reaching back to 1391, Benedict quotes Byzantine Emperor
>>> > > Manuel
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> II: "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new,
>>and
>>> > > there
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as
>his
>>> > > command
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> to spread by the sword the faith he preached."
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Four days later, according to AP: "Pakistan's
>>legislature
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> unanimously condemned Pope Benedict XVI. Lebanon's
top
>>> > Shiite
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> cleric demanded an apology. And in Turkey, the ruling
>>> party
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> likened the pontiff to Hitler and Mussolini and accused
>>> him
>>> > of
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> reviving the mentality of the Crusades.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> "Across the Islamic world Friday, Benedict's remarks
>on
>>> > Islam
>>> > > > > and
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> jihad in a speech in Germany unleashed a torrent of
>rage
>>> > that
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> many fear could burst into violent protests like those
>>> that
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> followed publication of caricatures of the Prophet
>>> > Muhammad."
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Reuters quoted other sources expressing fears for the
>>> Pope's
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> safety and even fear of an attack on Vatican City.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> The Islamist reaction proves Manuel II's 600-year-old
>>> point.
>>> > > > > The
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> reaction is not one of anger but a calculated attempt
>to
>>> > force
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the Pope to parrot the PC line on Islam. Since Islam
>>need
>>> > not
>>> > > be
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> internally consistent and it is not bound by reason,
>>it's
>>> > only
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> objective can be to assert the power of a God who is
>so
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> transcendent that He is not bound by anything. If man
>is
>>> > > created
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> in God's image then by extension Islamic man is not
>>bound
>>> by
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> anything. (This explains the predilection on the part
>>of
>>> > some
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Muslims to lie.) Islamists are not responding to any
>>> > 'offense'
>>> > > > > to
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> their non-existent morality. They are asserting the
>>only
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 'morality' they have-the will to power.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> "Will to Power" is a key element of Nietzsche 's
>>> > > > > philosophy-hence
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the root of the term, Islamofascist. Moreover the
>>Western
>>> > > "Left'
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> is today guided far more by Nietzsche existentialist
>>> thought
>>> > > > > than
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> by Marxist thought-hence the alliance between the
>>Western
>>> > > "Left"
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> and the Islamofascist 'Right.'
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Reuters quotes an Indian Muslim leader doing precisely
>>> what
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Manuel II said they would: "Syed Ahmed Bukhari, the
>>chief
>>> > > cleric
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> of New Delhi's historic Jama Masjid, India's largest
>>> mosque,
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> extolled Muslims to 'respond in a manner which forces
>>the
>>> > Pope
>>> > > > > to
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> apologize.'" Note they intend to use "force" not
>>reason.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Reuters quotes an unnamed diplomat pointing out the
>Pope
>>> > was,
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> "calling a spade a spade".
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> The secularist mouthpiece, New York Times,editorializes,
>>> > "Pope
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Benedict XVI has insulted Muslims.." This is false.
>>The
>>> > Pope
>>> > > 's
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> description of the Islamic God as being unbound by
>>reason
>>> is
>>> > > not
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> an insult, it is an Islamic article of faith. What
>>> Muslims
>>> > > and
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> secularists fear is the Pope's decision to choose to
>>enter
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> dialogue asserting his belief in Christianity. How
>dare
>>> he
>>> > > not
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> "apologize" for being a Christian? That is the
>>so-called
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> "insult."
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> One might "reasonably" ask when will Muslims "apologize"
>>> for
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> being Muslim? But they are not bound by reason to the
>>> point
>>> > is
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> lost on them.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Amazingly the Times continues: "Muslim leaders the
world
>>> > over
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> have demanded apologies. For many Muslims, holy war
>-
>>> > jihad -
>>> > > is
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> a spiritual struggle, and not a call to violence."
>In
>>> > saying
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> this, the Times implicitly recognizes the Islamists
>are
>>> > waging
>>> > > a
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> propaganda jihad against the Pope and by extension
>>against
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Christianity-and they explicitly endorse and join this
>>> > jihad.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> The Times is saying to Islamists, 'we can join your
>>> > 'spiritual
>>> > > '
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> jihad, but not your violent jihad.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> The Times editors are living in a fool's paradise.
>The
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> "spiritual" non-violent jihad of propaganda is merely
>>the
>>> > flip
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> side of the violent jihad. Nowhere is that more clear
>>> than
>>> > in
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the Islamist reaction to the Pope.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> With the Pope scheduled to visit Turkey in November
>the
>>> > > > > Islamists
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> are rejecting any apology from Vatican spokespersons
>and
>>> > > demand
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> to hear from the Pope himself. This would place raging
>>> mobs
>>> > > of
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> semi-literate Islamist thugs in the position of forcing
>>> the
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> leader of Christendom to bow before them.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> In this demand for submission they are joined by the
>>> > > secularist
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> mouthpiece. In its September 16 edition the Times
>>> > > > > editorializes:
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> "He needs to offer a deep and persuasive apology."
>The
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> secularists too seek the Pope's submission. Like the
>>> > > Islamists,
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the secularists are driven only by their will to power.
>>> > While
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the Islamists represent their demented version of
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> God--unrestrained by reason, the secularists represent
>>> their
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> demented version of reason--unrestrained by God. They
>>are
>>> > > > > united
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> by their self-worshipping world view.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> It should be noted that the carefully staged "anger'
>>from
>>> > the
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Islamic world does not condemn Benedict's
>>characterization
>>> > of
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Islam as a religion where God's "will is not bound
up
>>with
>>> > any
>>> > > > > of
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> our categories, even that of rationality...(The Islamic)
>>> God
>>> > > is
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> not bound even by his own word.." This is not seen
>as
>>an
>>> > > > > insult.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Islam embraces this description. In offering this
>>> > description
>>> > > > > of
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Islam, Benedict refers to the views of leading modern
>>> French
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Islamist R. Arnaldez as discussed in the writings of
>>> > Professor
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Theodore Khoury of Munster.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Likewise the secularists express no dismay at the pope's
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> characterization of a secularist as: "(A) subject
(who)
>>> > then
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> decides, on the basis of his experiences, what he
>>> considers
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> tenable in matters of religion, and the subjective
>>> > 'conscience
>>> > > '
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> becomes the sole arbiter of what is ethical."
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Benedict asserts that without reason, or without God,
>>> there
>>> > > can
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> be no modern system of morality. He explains, "In
this
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> way.ethics and religion lose their power to create
a
>>> > community
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> and become (instead) a completely personal matter."
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Both Islamist and secularist seek to break God and
>>reason
>>> > > apart.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Each claims superiority over the Christian West. They
>>> > believe
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> absolute moral license makes them powerful. As
>>> > globalization
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> carries the Western tradition of reason throughout
the
>>> > world,
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> both are in decline.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Where the force of reason is defeated, Islamist and
>>> > secularist
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> will meet in combat, just as Hitler's fascists broke
>>their
>>> > > pact
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> with the Soviet Union, invading in June, 1941 after
>the
>>> > > collapse
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> of the allied forces on the western front.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> What the Islamists and the New York Times both fear
>is
>>> > having
>>> > > to
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> reply to the Pope's key point, borrowed from the
>>Byzantine
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Emperor: "'Not to act reasonably, not to act with
logos
>>> > (word
>>> > > > > or
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> reason) is contrary to the nature of God,'.. It is
>to
>>> this
>>> > > > > great
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> logos, to this breadth of reason, that we invite our
>>> > partners
>>> > > in
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the dialogue of cultures."
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Their fear of reason can only lead the world to
>>disaster.
>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > > > >>>
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>Amy and I were talking about it the other day actually. Either there or New
Zealand. She needs to live in mountains though. She's gotta' have snow.
Having lived in just about every climate, I'm not too picky, though I do
like the ocean. Something tells me I'd like Australia. Most of the Aussies
I've met in my lifetime, I've become friends with, though I've never mated
with any of the males.
;o)
"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:450fb21e$1@linux...
> What are you doing checking out Aussie newspapers, Deej?
> Looking to move over here?--
> Martin Harrington
> www.lendanear-sound.com
>
> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
> news:450f87ac$1@linux...
> >
http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/story/0,23663,20437931- 10388,00.html
> >
> > I was present at a few recording sessions with Willie & friends back in
> > the
> > early/mid 80's. I thought we smoked up all of the pot on earth then and
> > there wasn't any left. I've still got a hangover from one of those
> > sessions.........
> >
> > As stupid as this was, the stupidity is likely a result of haviung
smoked
> > so
> > much pot so maybe he can plead insanity. I hope he doesn't do
> > time......and
> > he very possibly cound
> >
> >
> >
>
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Aaron,
Tubby big time in the low end. I think I'm going to like the
Cambridge possibly in conjunction with the Neve 33609.
The Cambridge seems to have an even nicer top end than=20
Paris. More transparent but still retains character to my ear. =20
I think the low end will be better in a fine tuning way than the=20
Paris eq also.
It's the Neve comp that I know nothing about.
Tom
"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote in message =
news:4510915d@linux...
Tom, do you find that the Paris EQ is a little, er... tubby sounding =
in mastering?
AA
"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote in message =
news:450f9d86@linux...
Gene and all others with comments,
Is the Neve 33609 even worth the bother?
I want to use the $50 coupon on a plug. I'm strongly considering =
the Precision Multiband.
If it sounds as good as it looks and functions as simply as it =
appears I think it could make
a difference in my lower end mastering projects (the only ones I =
do). Now I'm using Paris EQ,=20
NoLimit, Paris Comp, but no real pristine compression. The Waves =
multiband is average at best=20
to my ear. That's all I've got around here in higher end software. =
I've delved into the Waves Ren Comp=20
a few times too. It's okay. The Sakis method is too involved for =
my limited mastering hours. I typically
have to get a CD done in less than four hours to make it worth the =
client's/my while.
For $200 or less is there a better choice for an easy to use =
multiband comp? Otherwise I might spring for the=20
1073 but I have two Neve pres here in hardware form that I track =
with alot.
Is the UAD 140 way better than the SIR plates? If not I'll pass on =
that too.
I'm thinking the Cambridge EQ (just got that and like it) with the =
Precision Multiband Comp would be a=20
fine addition to a sweeter sounding master and even individual =
tracks here and there. =20
All opinions welcome!
Tom
"gene Lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote in message =
news:450f504d$1@linux...
"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>DJ,
>Have you had a chance to hear it yet?
>Tom
Not DJ but...
I had it for a few hours before my temp license timed out =
prematurely. Sounds
nice and fairly close to the real thing. I did a short comparison =
to my Portico5043.
The UAD has a similar flavor and controls the dynamics in a very =
similar
way, but it is missing the creamy sound of the hardware - And I =
hate people
that describe hardware as creamy :=AC)=20
Since the plug requires an entire card or it must be rendered, I =
don't think
I will get it. I might as well render the real thing.
Gene
I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Aaron,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tubby big time in the low end. I =
think I'm=20
going to like the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cambridge possibly in conjunction with =
the Neve=20
33609.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The Cambridge seems to have an even =
nicer top end=20
than </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Paris. More transparent but still =
retains=20
character to my ear. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I think the low end will </FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>be better in a fine tuning way than the </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Paris eq also.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It's the Neve comp that I know nothing=20
about.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Aaron Allen" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:know-spam@not_here.dude">know-spam@not_here.dude</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A =
href=3D"news:4510915d@linux">news:4510915d@linux</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom, do you find that the Paris EQ is =
a little,=20
er... tubby sounding in mastering?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>AA</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Tom Bruhl" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A =
href=3D"news:450f9d86@linux">news:450f9d86@linux</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Gene and all others with =
comments,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Is the Neve 33609 even worth the=20
bother?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I want to use the $50 coupon on a =
plug. =20
I'm strongly considering the Precision Multiband.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If it sounds as good as it looks =
and functions=20
as simply as it appears I think it could make</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>a difference in my lower end =
mastering projects=20
(the only ones I do). Now I'm using Paris EQ, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>NoLimit, Paris Comp, </FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>but no real pristine compression. The Waves multiband =
is=20
average at best </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>to my ear. That's all I've =
got around=20
here in higher end software. I've delved </FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>into the Waves Ren Comp </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>a few times too. It's =
okay. The=20
Sakis method is too involved for my limited mastering hours. I =
typically</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>have to get a CD done in less than =
four hours=20
to make it worth the client's/my while.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&
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