Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » OT Question for MAudio MIDI Sport 8x8 users
| OT Question for MAudio MIDI Sport 8x8 users [message #67966] |
Tue, 09 May 2006 20:56  |
Tom Bruhl
Messages: 1368
Registered: June 2007
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Senior Member |
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--------------000100070703090706040206--Exactly! I never new Matt Craig had a compressor released?!?
Gimme gimme! ;o)
Cheers,
Kim.
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>I've got Matt Craig's Paris EQ some where, but I don't have his comp. Can
>somebody email me Matt Craig's comp?
>
>Thanks
>James
>
>excelsm@hotmail.com
>
>
>"Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>Kim, I have experimented with mastering this way a lot. And yes, sometimes
>>that does happen. What I notice is, stereo imaging will jump around. I
know
>>Sakis uses this method, with success so it's probably a matter of getting
>>every set right. I'm just not that good!
>>Now here's the good news for PC guys. Using Matt Craig's comp. you check
>>the stereo box and have a stereo Paris comp...pre eq.
>>Rod
>>
>>"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>While I have heard a lot of people more knowledgable than myself talk
up
>>>this method of mastering, one thing has always bothered me...
>>>
>>>The Paris compressors are mono. Therefore your left and right channels
>are
>>>being processed seperately. Surely your stereo imaging will go all over
>>the
>>>place?!? I mean, for starters, anything that's loud in a given frequency
>>>band, and not centred, will tend to get centred, because the louder channel
>>
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| Re: OT Question for MAudio MIDI Sport 8x8 users [message #67990 is a reply to message #67973] |
Wed, 10 May 2006 08:40  |
Tom Bruhl
Messages: 1368
Registered: June 2007
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Senior Member |
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com" target="_blank">nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>Yes, a burn at 40X when analyzed will show higher error rates than one
burned
>>at 4X. But the 40X CD will still have error rates below what industry standards
>>accept for pressed CDs, and the error correction in those (actually quite
>>rare) situations will work fine. Does a CD with a little dust on it sound
>>different? Does a CD in a smoky room sound different?
>>
>>When prepping CDs for duplication I usually burn slower, at 4X or 8X, but
>>I think that's largely superstition.
>>
>>TCB
>>
>>"gene lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>It doens't really matter Lou, you can burn pretty much any speed you
want.
>>>>It's just ones and zeros and your audio data is no different than your
>>other
>>>>data. Some people still burn slower when they are sending things to be
>>duplicated
>>>>but as far as I'm concerned that's like clicking slower because the link
>>>>goes to your bank account balance. As long as your burner isn't generating
>>>>errors it's all the same.
>>>>
>>>>TCB
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>“As long as your burner isn't generating
>>>errors it's all the same. “
>>>
>>>TCB
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Here is the catch. Almost all burners do generate errors and the error
>rate
>>>is far worse at higher rates.
>>>
>>>The primary difference between data CDs and audio CDs is that data CDs
>will
>>>error check and keep recalling the same data in an attempt to get perfect
>>>copies. In most cases a few retries will succeed and the only negative
>effect
>>>is a slight delay in transfer.
>>>
>>>Audio CDs can’t work that way for obvious reasons. Instead, audio CDs
use
>>>“error correction” to fill in the missing data.
>>>Reed-Solomon Error Correction is the most common for CDs and DATs. A good
>>>(but highly technical) explanation is here:
>>>http://www.ddj.com/184410107
>>>
>>>Error correction is better than nothing, but does deteriorate the audio
>>and
>>>sometimes it murders the audio.
>>>
>>>The Plextor Pro – burners and software are the only reasonably priced
solutions
>>>that give detailed and accurate error rates and can certify disks for
use
>>>as masters.
>>>
>>>All this is much more important for dealing with critical masters than
>just
>>>normal CD copies for clients, but the issues remain.
>>>
>>>If you care about the quality of your audio copies and their longevity,
>>you
>>>should:
>>>1. Qualify your burner by checking errors using a trusted method.
>>>2. Burn at slower speeds.
>>>3. Use high quality blanks.
>>>
>>>Having said all this, I frequently use cheap disks and my Mac’s Super
Drive
>>>for most of my non-critical work.
>>>
>>
>I've got a Plextor Premium burner (BT recommendation) and I've done several
tests with it's diagnostic error checking. Believe it or not, I get consistantly
less errors when burning at faster speeds than slower. Go figure.
Rod
"Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>Well, it is faulting.. I established that already. However, regarding that
>fact, why am I consistently seeing the errors on 'only' the fast burned
CDs?
>The obvious fact is that there are more errors. My burner is at best a year
>old, and this seems to be consistent across several of my burners, using
a
>multitude of different programs. While not exactly scientific, it's just
not
>worth it when it's proven in my mind that it creates problems. The other
>factor I'm thinking here is you are likely using good CD players and
>convertors. Have you tried this test with a cheapo player to see if it's
>still the same result?
>
>AA
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:4480a7e0$1@linux...
>>
>> I'd say this means you have a nearly faulty CD player, but that's me.
>>
>> Remember Derek, who used to hang out here? We went over this once ad
>> infinitum
>> and Derek and I tested this way. We ripped and burned the same track over
>> and over again. Like twenty rips and then twenty burns, one was burned
at
>> 2X and one at 32X. After the last rip we did the flip the phase trick
and
>> heard . . . nothing. These days I could probalby run a diff on the audio
>> files to compare them bit for bit, but that's enough proof to me that
a
>> properly
>> functioning CD player will get the same data off of CDs that are properly
>> burned, regardless of speed.
>>
>> Also, if this is true, why don't faster hard drives involve more errors
>> that
>> slower ones? They have to write data just like CD burners do.
>>
>> TCB
>>
>> "Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>>Whether or not I can hear anything, here is all the proof I need: My car
>>
>>>deck is slowly making it's way to the graveyard. Faster burns won't play
>> in
>>>it. Slower ones do. That says to me w/o any doubts that the faster burns
>> are
>>>either mishapen (more elliptical) or they have higher errors or both.
>>>I burn 'em slow for masters.
>>>
>>>AA
>>>
>>>
>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:44808fe2$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> I can't.
>>>>
>>>> "DC" <dc@spamyermama.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>When prepping CDs for duplication I usually burn slower, at 4X or 8X,
>> but
>>>>>>I think that's largely superstition.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>It's not. Most people can clearly hear the difference between a
>>>>>CD written at 24 or higher and one written at 4 or lower.
>>>>>
>>>>>DC
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
>>>http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>Does this mean even I can learn how to sing?
Rich
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message news:44811172$1@linux...
>
> Here's a way to make money with your studio!
>
> http://www.newyorkfirst.com/gifts/2122.htmlHi All,
According to the manual these were designed to be placed in a vertical
position. I have read articles on speaker placement and they say most speakers
are designed to have the listeners ear at a level height with the tweeter
OR level with the space between the tweeter and the woofer. I notice that
the phantom center shifts up and down in front of me as I change my ear le
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| Re: OT Question for MAudio MIDI Sport 8x8 users [message #68001 is a reply to message #67990] |
Wed, 10 May 2006 12:08 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
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|
se Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
>> >>http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>
>That is essentially what I meant... it is kinda tough to describe
geometry...
David.
Brandon wrote:
> When you say the center of the cabs should be at right angles you mean facing
> straight back and not angled directly at the ear?
>
> I have researched many diagrams and the most common one is the 60degree equalateral
> triangle. This is recommended as follows:
> 1.Speaker centers 4-6 feet apart.
> 2.Listener positioned in an equalateral triangular position.
> 3.Speaker cab centers angled to point just behind the head of the listener
> (directly at each ear).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> EK Sound <askme@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>Ideally, the speaker should be as far away from your ears as they are
>>apart from each other (equal sided triangle). Also, the cabinets
>>should be aiming at you with the center of the cabinet at right angles
>>to your head. This means that if you have the cabinets sitting lower
>>than your head, you should tilt them up slightly, and tilt down if
>>they are over your head.
>>
>>Just a rule of thumb... YMMV
>>
>>David.
>>
>>Brandon wrote:
>>
>>>Hi All,
>>>
>>> According to the manual these were designed to be placed in a vertical
>>>position. I have read articles on speaker placement and they say most
>
> speakers
>
>>>are designed to have the listeners ear at a level height with the tweeter
>>>OR level with the space between the tweeter and the woofer. I notice that
>>>the phantom center shifts up and down in front of me as I change my ear
>
> level
>
>>>in relation to the tweeters. It is written that there is an optimal listening
>>>position when considering phase relation between the tweeter and the woofer.
>>>I wrote to Mackie and there response was:
>>>
>>>"As long as you are a descent distance away from the cabinets, a meter
>
>
>>>or so, I don't think it matters. Put them in a horizontal plane with
>>>your head and stay a good bit away from them. You should be fine. msp"
>>>
>>>This response goes against how the speakers were designed to be mounted
>
> and
>
>>>listened thru.....So........
>>>Does anyone know the optimal positioning?and why?
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>Brandon
>
>Thanks for the input guys.
I will out the tweeters level with the ear.
EK Sound <askme@nospam.com> wrote:
>That is essentially what I meant... it is kinda tough to describe
>geometry...
>
>David.
>
>Brandon wrote:
>
>> When you say the center of the cabs should be at right angles you mean
facing
>> straight back and not angled directly at the ear?
>>
>> I have researched many diagrams and the most common one is the 60degree
equalateral
>> triangle. This is recommended as follows:
>> 1.Speaker centers 4-6 feet apart.
>> 2.Listener positioned in an equalateral triangula
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| Re: OT Question for MAudio MIDI Sport 8x8 users [message #68003 is a reply to message #68001] |
Wed, 10 May 2006 12:57 |
Tom Bruhl
Messages: 1368
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
d in a vertical
>>>>position. I have read articles on speaker placement and they say most
>>
>> speakers
>>
>>>>are designed to have the listeners ear at a level height with the tweeter
>>>>OR level with the space between the tweeter and the woofer. I notice
that
>>>>the phantom center shifts up and down in front of me as I change my ear
>>
>> level
>>
>>>>in relation to the tweeters. It is written that there is an optimal listening
>>>>position when considering phase relation between the tweeter and the
woofer.
>>>>I wrote to Mackie and there response was:
>>>>
>>>>"As long as you are a descent distance away from the cabinets, a meter
>>
>>
>>>>or so, I don't think it matters. Put them in a horizontal plane with
>>>>your head and stay a good bit away from them. You should be fine. msp"
>>>>
>>>>This response goes against how the speakers were designed to be mounted
>>
>> and
>>
>>>>listened thru.....So........
>>>>Does anyone know the optimal positioning?and why?
>>>>
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>Brandon
>>
>>I've got solid sync between Paris and Cubase. (Adat sync, two computers,
RME, Cubase SX 3.0). But the playback from Cubase is constant 91 samples
ahead of Paris. This happens only on playback. When rendering VSTi's or
wav's in Cubase, and import it to Paris, it's sample accurate. No plug-ins
are used in Cubase. Does anobody know this problem?
Bjorn RAs I have been pushing this hybrid DAW harder and harder, I've been finding
out a lot of important things.
1. 3 x RME HDSP PCI cards and 4 x UAD-1 cards will overload the PCI bus when
all the cards are used with a Magma
2. 1 x RME HDSP card and 4 x UAD-1 cards will overload the PCI bus when all
the cards are used with a Magma.
3. Inserting 3 x RME HDSP cards in an ASUS A8V-Deluxe mobo and having one
card share an IRQ with an AGP Matrox P750 will work just fine if you enable
bus mastering on the Matrox P750. If bus mastering on the Matrox is
disabled, the system will be unusable. This one had me by the short hairs
for a while. It didn't seem to make sense to have the Matorx mastering the
bus when sharing with an audio card, but this is absolutely necessary for
this situation to work properly.
4. It's a good idea, when using 4 x UAD-1 cards in a Magma to just pull the
top off the Magma and have a big fan blowing down into the chassis so they
won't overheat..........because they will, if you don't............no shit.
5. It doesn't hurt to get one of those freezer packs, freeze it and put it
under your RME HDSP Multiface breakout box because these things get damned
hot after 4 hours of cranking AD/DA through them when using them with
external processors in a mix.
6. When mixing, the Lucid GenX6 WC is a very good workhorse and much less
problematic than the Mytek because there are no thermal issues. The Mytek
Stereo96 A/D and Stereo 96D/A converters (also) get damned hot when used as
AD/DA channels for external inserts in Cubase SX and when used this hard,
for long periods of time, this heat may be destabilizing the internal Mytek
clock a bit. The Mytek has a nice clock and it's a good thing to use it as
master when tracking using the Mytek A/D converters, but overall stability
seems to suffer when the unit starts to heat up. Also........you don't want
to stack two of these units on top of each other either......like they show
in their ads.........at least not if they are being used hard. Set them side
by side with nothing above them.
7. It's a hellaciously nice situation to have 70 digital I/O on each system
plus the digital I/O of the external processors all interfaced, properly
clocked and enabling the use good hardware processors and delay compensated
UAD-1 plugins on inserts and auxes in Paris.
OK, that's it for now. System seems to be rockin along..
cheers,
DeejThis is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>4. It's a good idea, when using 4 x UAD-1 cards in a Magma to just pull
the top off the Magma and have a big fan blowing down
into the chassis so they won't overheat..........because they
will, if you don't............no shit.
So what you're saying is that it will turn into a "liquid hot
mag-ma"?
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---=_linux44824e84--Check the link below, and look for Furniture, "Chris Wargo's computer isolation
box"
http://webnews.parisnewsgroup.com/
Good luck!
James
"Brandon" <you@your.domain> wrote:
>
>All,
>
>I know a few of you have made your own computer enclosures with soundproofing
>design to quiet the control room.
>Do any of you still have the plans you used?
>I am interested to see your designs and hear from you how they worked. I
>am fixing to build a new control room desk and was going to incorporate
a
>computer enclosure in the bottom of it.
>Thanks,
>
>BrandonSorry, wrong link, here it is.
http://www.parisfaqs.com/
James
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Check the link below, and look for Furniture, "Chris Wargo's computer isolation
>box"
>
>http://webnews.parisnewsgroup.com/
>
>Good luck!
>James
>
>
>"Brandon" <you@your.domain> wrote:
>>
>>All,
>>
>>I know a few of you have made your own computer enclosures with soundproofing
>>design to quiet the control room.
>>Do any of you still have the plans you used?
>>I am interested to see your designs and hear from you how they worked.
I
>>am fixing to build a new control room desk and was going to incorporate
>a
>>computer enclosure in the bottom of it.
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Brandon
>These guys are calling these "final mixes", but I'm going to see
if I can get the to make a few tweaks. We're leaving 2-bus
compression off until Mastering, so the levels are prolly a
little on the low side... gonna send 4 stereo stems to
Mastering, so they'll most likely compress each stem separately.
Recording notes are posted below, for those that may be
interested.
Anyway, the band said "post 'em freely", so enjoy!
http://saqqararecords.com/images/BitchLiberteFinalMixMP3.mp3
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT Question for MAudio MIDI Sport 8x8 users [message #68027 is a reply to message #68003] |
Thu, 11 May 2006 06:45 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
/>
RichHey John
Very helpful list. I generally forget about NOT saving a project when the
loop command is engaged.
Thanks,
MR
"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:448307c9$1@linux...
>
>
> Things to keep you from crashing.
>
> DON'T
> * Leave the audio window open as a rule.
>
> In STOP mode
>
> DON'T
> * DON'T select a new Native Effect if the current one is open
> * DON'T enter record mode without first setting your record path (Ctrl-R)
> * DON'T use the name of the project for your recording path
> * DON'T save with looping enabled
> * DON'T "undo record" while Paris is in the middle of creating overviews
> for 32 audio tracks 1.5 hours long.... BOOM!
> * DON'T try to edit the length or move too many tracks at one time in the
> edit window...crash city. If you cut them all to the same length that
seems
> to minimize the likelyhood of a crash. Save before trying anyway.
> * DON'T for some reason messing with the audio window browse slider seems
> to really tick off Paris most of the time.
>
> During Playback or Recording
>
> DON'T
> * DON'T change inserts (native or eds)
> * DON'T move loop or punch points
> * DON'T enable or disable loop or punch
>
> Rendering
>
> DON'T
> * DON'T render tracks with different lengths
>
> Markers
> * I've also seen bad things happen when messing around too much in the
"markers"
> window. I don't leave it open anymore than is neccessary, and save before
> deleting or renaming markers.
>
> NoLimit
>
> DON'T
> * DON'T use 0 or 50 values
>
>
>
>
> I you have any digital gear interfacing with the Paris spdif I/O and the
> RME
> spdif I/O and you have created a routing matrix between a DAW running as
> an
> external FX processor and a control for digital patchbay routing which is
> controlling the I/O routing between your Paris DAW and your Cubase SX DAW
> as
> follows:
>
> Paris Submix 1
> Cubase CH 1>RME 1 ADAT 1-1 out > Paris CH 1
> Cubase CH 2>RME 1 ADAT 1-2 out > Paris CH 2
> Cubase CH 3>RME 1 ADAT 1-3 out > Paris CH 3
> Cubase CH 4>RME 1 ADAT 1-4 out > Paris CH 4
> Cubase CH 5>RME 1 ADAT 1-5 out > Paris CH 5
> Cubase CH 6>RME 1 ADAT 1-6 out > Paris CH 6
> Cubase CH 7>RME 1 ADAT 1-7 out > Paris CH 7
> Cubase CH 8>RME 1 ADAT 1-8 out > Paris CH 8
> Cubase CH 9>RME 1 ADAT 2-9 out > Paris CH 9
> Cubase CH 10>RME 1 ADAT 2-10 out > Paris CH 10
> Cubase CH 11>RME 1 ADAT 2-11 out > Paris CH 11
> Cubase CH 12>RME 1 ADAT 2-12 out > Paris CH 12
> Cubase CH 13>RME 1 ADAT 2-13 out > Paris CH 13
> Cubase CH 14>RME 1 ADAT 2-14 out > Paris CH 14
> Cubase ST CH 15L/ Stereo Group 1 L> RME 1 ADAT 2-15 out > Paris CH 15
> Cubase ST CH 15R/ Stereo Group 1 R> RME 1 ADAT 2-16 out > Paris CH 16
>
> Paris Submix #2
>
> Cubase CH 16>RME 1 ADAT 3-17 out > Paris CH 1
> Cubase CH 17>RME 1 ADAT 3-18 out > Paris CH 2
> Cubase CH 18>RME 1 ADAT 3-19 out > Paris CH 3
> Cubase CH 19>RME 1 ADAT 3-20 out > Paris CH 4
> Cubase CH 20>RME 1 ADAT 3-21 out > Paris CH 5
> Cubase CH 21>RME 1 ADAT 3-22 out > Paris CH 6
> Cubase CH 22>RME 1 ADAT 3-23 out > Paris CH 7
> Cubase CH 23>RME 1 ADAT 3-24 out > Paris CH 8
>
> Using RME HDSP 9652 Card #2 bussing to Paris Submix 2 AND 3
>
> Cubase CH 24>RME 2 ADAT 1-1 out > Paris CH 9
> Cubase CH 25>RME 2 ADAT 1-2 out > Paris CH 10
> Cubase CH 26>RME 2 ADAT 1-3 out > Paris CH 11
> Cubase CH 27>RME 2 ADAT 1-4 out > Paris CH 12
> Cubase CH 28>RME 2 ADAT 1-5 out > Paris CH 13
> Cubase CH 29>RME 2 ADAT 1-6 out > Paris CH 14
> Cubase CH 30>RME 2 ADAT 1-7 out > Paris CH 15
> Cubase CH 31>RME 2 ADAT 1-8 out > Paris CH 16
>
> Paris Submix #3
>
> Cubase CH 32>RME 2 ADAT 2-9 out > Paris CH 1
> Cubase CH 33>RME 2 ADAT 2-10 out > Paris CH 2
> Cubase CH 34>RME 2 ADAT 2-11 out > Paris CH 3
> Cubase CH 35>RME 2 ADAT 2-12 out > Paris CH 4
> Cubase CH 36>RME 2 ADAT 2-13 out > Paris CH 5
> Cubase CH 37>RME 2 ADAT 2-14 out > Paris CH 6
> Cubase CH 38>RME 2 ADAT 2-15 out > Paris CH 7
> Cubase CH 39>RME 2 ADAT 2-16 out > Paris CH 8
> Cubase CH 40>RME 2 ADAT 3-17 out > Paris CH 9
> Cubase CH 41>RME 2 ADAT 3-18 out > Paris CH 10
> Cubase CH 42>RME 2 ADAT 3-19 out > Paris CH 11
> Cubase CH 43>RME 2 ADAT 3-20 out > Paris CH 12
> Cubase CH 45>RME 2 ADAT 3-21 out > Paris CH 13
> Cubase CH 46>RME 2 ADAT 3-22 out > Paris CH 14
> Cubase ST CH 47L/ Stereo Group 2 L> RME 3 ADAT 3-23 out > Paris CH 15
> Cubase ST CH 48R/ Stereo Group 2 R> RME 3 ADAT 3-24 out > Paris CH 16
>
> ........then you need to remember to turn on all of the external digital
> procesors that5 are interfacing with Paris and Cubase through the digital
> patchbay or directly before you turn on your external word clock module,
> followed by booting the DAW which is running the control panel for your
> digital patchbays and starting the digital FX processors in this box,
then
> boot your Paris DAW, launch the Paris app and then boot your Cubase DAW
and
> launch cubase. If you don't do it in this order, Paris will crash.....and
> I'm pretty pissed that this was nowhere in the manual.
>"Chris Latham" <latham_c@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>Call me nutty, but once you correctly identify any note, then the fact that
>you answer successive notes correctly in the same "testing session" only
>proves that you have great RELATIVE pitch. But if you can fire up the
>program, get the first note right, then come back day after day and
>consistently get the FIRST note right, then you have perfect pitch. I might
>be wrong but, it seems that great RELATIVE pitch might be the bigger
>blessing, anywho.
I'd say you are right, to a point. However, while my relative pitch is generally
very good, the program will throw notes at random over the whole keyboard
range if I ask it to. My relative pitch finds it a fair struggle to pick,
say, a 29 semitone interval (though occassio
|
|
|
|
| Re: OT Question for MAudio MIDI Sport 8x8 users [message #68032 is a reply to message #68027] |
Thu, 11 May 2006 09:31 |
Tom Bruhl
Messages: 1368
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
>
>So the entire basis of scientific inquiry is to try to establish facts that,
>as much as possible, take our perceptive apparatus out of the equation.
And the great scientists I have known start to take seriously the
observations of so many credible witnesses and suspect something
might actually be happening here.
Others use "science" as a way to establish their own view as the
only one not based on illusion.
>If
>there is a fault in my test tell me what it is and I'll see if I can come
>up with a better one. And, as I've repeatedly said, if someone can do blind
>ABY tests and show a statistically significant result I'll be happy to revisit
>the issue.
One huge fault is that you have not done anything resembling an
even minor sample of what CD players actually DO with your
CD's. No one in your camp has ever done this. You simply rip
and burn and cancel and go "there, you are all deluded".
Phenomena that appears clear and indisputable in the domain of
data comparisons becomes disputable indeed when put in a CD
player. What constitutes an error and how error correction responds
to it, can change, don't you think? Well you don't know, because
your test doesn't show it. Well it's not there then...
This is not science.
What do you want to bet that Sony 1630/1640 machines all
produced data that canelled perfectly? Yet, they almost single-
handedly destroyed the reputation of CD's for decades and the
terrible sound they produced has created myths about digital audio
that persist to this day. They sounded so bad that they created
the opportunity for Apogee to start an entire business creating
convertors that don't sound awful. It started when people stopped
listening to the people telling them that what they were hearing
was not there, and instead trying to figure out what was happening.
>Actually it's not like that at all, what we're trying to establish is if
>the speed of burning a CD degrades the audio or degrades the quality of
the
>data.
And there is your answer. You simply do not understand the
question. What we are actually trying to determine is whether
different burn speeds can affect the audio quality. You simply
extrapolate from the data and assert that the audio quality cannot
be affected. But you should know that "data" is not something
inherent in a bunch of burns in dye, but rather it is something
derived from them, and your test did not include the domain in
which the data is actually made into audio! Burns in dye are
totally an optical/mechanical and analog phenomenon. There are no digits
there, there is no data there, there is only polycarbonate,
dye, and laser light. The data only becomes apparent and
meaningful when read by a CD player. Your test totally ignored
the most important factor of the whole process and assumed the
presence of adequate data, regardless of the CD player's ability to
properly recognize and convert burns in dye to audio. That ability is
unknown in this regard, the phenomenon that may affect it is
unknown, and your test has not shown any light on this issue.
>I'll skip over the implied insult that I'm willfully deaf
But that is the inevitable response isn't it? You call experienced
enigneers deluded and then hope no one calls you deaf!
In the end, your assertions are not supported by your test,
and so they are opinions of how things work, not facts.
I suspect that the real test to resolve this would require resources
beyond any of us. Nonetheless, it will happen some day. There is
something there.
>and don't understand
>how audio (and other kinds of) data works and await either a better test
>than the one I used or proof that goes beyond 'everyone hear the difference'
>when there would be obvious pressure to agree with that fact.
But you are wrong again. The pressure, and there was a lot of it,
was to make hundreds of CD's by the weekend for an upcoming
conference. The client was highly motivated to hear no difference
between my master CD and the high speed copies so they could
get them out in time. But they did hear a difference and they
hated what the high speed burn did to the sound.
But you "know" they are deluded. Ok...
DCHi,
Wires is for Me too !!
Just run minimum setup exe.
Regards,
Dimitrios
"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>
>What uses do you have for wires? Below are a couple.
>
>
>Input Wire receives audio from other channels or plugs
>
>Output Wire sends audio to other channels or plugs. It passes through audio
>to the channel it is instantiated on AND also sends it to a virtual wires
>channel. Other plugs such as Key Gate can receive this audio signal and
>use it for processing.
>
>
>I've used it to route Aux FX back to strips for added EQ and Panning etc.
> ie: chorus on an acoustic 12 string guitar panned to the opposite side
>
>I've also tried sending all the drums to two Aux (via the Aux send) then
>returning the two Aux to two strips (a cheezy drum buss) via wires.
>
>It's to bad Paris's architecture doesn't allow jumping between submixes....now
>that could be fun.
>
>using wires can help...set Aux 1 send to post - put a "wires out" on that
>Aux and a "wires in" to a free channel, put that channel into record mode
>and record away
>
>I'm pretty sure that will capture everything
>Ok, and where can I get it?
Bjorn R
"Dimitrios" <musurgio@otenet.gr> wrote in message news:44845a41$1@linux...
>
> Hi,
> Wires is for Me too !!
> Just run minimum setup exe.
> Regards,
> Dimitrios
>
> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
> >
> >What uses do you have for wires? Below are a couple.
> >
> >
> >Input Wire receives audio from other channels or plugs
> >
> >Output Wire sends audio to other channels or plugs. It passes through
audio
> >to the channel it is instantiated on AND also sends it to a virtual wires
> >channel. Other plugs such as Key Gate can receive this audio signal and
> >use it for processing.
> >
> >
> >I've used it to route Aux FX back to strips for added EQ and Panning etc.
> > ie: chorus on an acoustic 12 string guitar panned to the opposite side
> >
> >I've also tried sending all the drums to two Aux (via the Aux send) then
> >returning the two Aux to two strips (a cheezy drum buss) via wires.
> >
> >It's to bad Paris's architecture doesn't allow jumping between
submixes....now
> >that could be fun.
> >
> >using wires can help...set Aux 1 send to post - put a "wires out" on that
> >Aux and a "wires in" to a free channel, put that channel into record
mode
> >and record away
> >
> >I'm pretty sure that will capture everything
> >
>.............and when removing a heatsink from a CPU, be sure to release the
mobo zif handle or you will bend the pins on the CPU. If you do this, take a
credit card and carefully run it between the rows of pins.........best to do
this under one of those lamps with a magnifier. If none of them have broken
off the surface this will straighten them out and the CPU should drop back
in the zif slots on the CPU mount. If you don't have a credit card that is
thick enough, get yourself a knife blade of the proper width and flip it
upside down and use it in the same way, but be vewwy vewwy careful not to
score the undersurface surface of the CPU.
"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
news:4480cb73$1@linux...
> Don't run a 15' WC cable from your master clock module to two distro
> modules, then use another short WC cable to link the distro modules
together
> and then run other WC cables of differing lengths to 3 x RME interfaces
and
> 3 x MECs while also running ADAT sync cables from 3 x Paris ADAT modules
to
> the ADAT sync inputs of the 3 x RME cards while the digital I/O of the RME
> cards, the Paris modules, all of your external spdif gear and ADAT gear is
> all patched into three different M-Audio Digipatch units which are daisy
> chained to each other using spdif cables in an attempt to allow
simultaneous
> clocking of everythiong from two different sources derived from the same
> master clock while cross patching all of the digital I/O between various
> lightpipe, coax and optical spdif devices through these digital patchbays
> that, BTW, don't reclock the incoming/outgoing signal.
>
> I know a bunch of you guys were getting ready to do this , but just say
no.
>
> (I swear there was a valid reason for trying this.........really there
was)
>
> ;oD
>
>"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>............and when removing a heatsink from a CPU, be sure to release
the
>mobo zif handle or you will bend the pins on the CPU. If you do this, take
a
>credit card and carefully run it between the rows of pins.........best to
do
>this under one of those lamps with a magnifier. If none of them have broken
>off the surface this will straighten them out and the CPU should drop back
>in the zif slots on the CPU mount. If you don't have a credit card that
is
>thick enough, get yourself a knife blade of the proper width and flip it
>upside down and use it in the same way, but be vewwy vewwy careful not to
>score the undersurface surface of the CPU.
Pretty cool trick, Deej... however if I tried something like
this, instead of successfully using the credit card to
straighten out the pins, I'd probably just end up using it to
buy another CPU lol
NeilOur perception and memory are not nearly as good as we think, particularly
when they're put together. Many convicts have been identified by multiple
people and sent to jail on that evidence and we have found after the fact
with DNA testing that the person COULDN'T have done the crime. Ideas can
be introduced into memory very easily. One study was done of college students
who had been to Disneyland. They were interviewed about what they say and
then shown things like advertisements that had Bugs Bunny (a non Disney character)
with Disney characters and so on. Nearly a third when interviewed again said
they saw Bugs Bunny at Disneyland, which could never have happened.
All of which is only to say that I don't trust even my own perceptions and
memory as being perfect or anything close to it. So if someone says to me
'these two thing sound different' and I flip the phase on the file and it
cancels perfectly I guess the problem is my perception, I'm not about to
override what I consider proof. You obviously think differently, which is
fine, we're Americans and we're still allowed minor freedoms like the right
to disagree about sensory proof.
In any case, now we're on to CD players. Obviously they will sound different--different
electronics, connections, motherboards, and so on. But you're arguing that
playing CDs made at different speeds will actually sound different on the
same CD player. Assuming the player works, I still don't buy it, because
if the errors are sufficiently high to be perceivable then the disk should
get spit out as a bad disk. That, and I return to my example about dusty
CDs--they generate slightly more errors than non-dusty CDs but I don't think
they sound different. I might be wrong, and good ABY testing would show that,
so it seems to me that's the way to go.
TCB
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>>We all know that our perceptive
>>hardware is imperfect. Witnesses routinely identify the wrong person in
>lineups,
>>illusions of movement can be created with surround sound, etc and so on.
>
>
>And so, upon this extrapolation you derive your view that all these
>people are fooling themselves? Ok...
>
>In this case everyone ID's the same guy. How do you acount for
>this?
>
>
>>So the entire basis of scientific inquiry is to try to establish facts
that,
>>as much as possible, take our perceptive apparatus out of the equation.
>
>
>And the great scientists I have known start to take seriously the
>observations of so many credible witnesses and suspect something
>might actually be happening here.
>
>Others use "science" as a way to establish their own view as the
>only one not based on illusion.
>
>>If
>>there is a fault in my test tell me what it is and I'll see if I can come
>>up with a better one. And, as I've repeatedly said, if someone can do blind
>>ABY tests and show a statistically significant result I'll be happy to
revisit
>>the issue.
>
>
>One huge fault is that you have not done anything resembling an
>even minor sample of what CD players actually DO with your
>CD's. No one in your camp has ever done this. You simply rip
>and burn and cancel and go "there, you are all deluded".
>
>Phenomena that appears clear and indisputable in the domain of
>data comparisons becomes disputable indeed when put in a CD
>player. What constitutes an error and how error correction responds
>to it, can change, don't you think? Well you don't know, because
>your test doesn't show it. Well it's not there then...
>
>This is not science.
>
>What do you want to bet that Sony 1630/1640 machines all
>produced data that canelled perfectly? Yet, they almost single-
>handedly destroyed the reputation of CD's for decades and the
>terrible sound they produced has created myths about digital audio
>that persist to this day. They sounded so bad that they created
>the opportunity for Apogee to start an entire business creating
>convertors that don't sound awful. It started when people stopped
>listening to the people telling them that what they were hearing
>was not there, and instead trying to figure out what was happening.
>
>
>>Actually it's not like that at all, what we're trying to establish is if
>>the speed of burning a CD degrades the audio or degrades the quality of
>the
>>data.
>
>And there is your answer. You simply do not understand the
>question. What we are actually trying to determine is whether
>different burn speeds can affect the audio quality. You simply
>extrapolate from the data and assert that the audio quality cannot
>be affected. But you should know that "data" is not something
>inherent in a bunch of burns in dye, but rather it is something
>derived from them, and your test did not include the domain in
>which the data is actually made into audio! Burns in dye are
>totally an optical/mechanical and analog phenomenon. There are no digits
>there, there is no data there, there is only polycarbonate,
>dye, and laser light. The data only becomes apparent and
>meaningful when read by a CD player. Your test totally ignored
>the most important factor of the whole process and assumed the
>presence of adequate data, regardless of the CD player's ability to
>properly recognize and convert burns in dye to audio. That ability is
>unknown in this regard, the phenomenon that may affect it is
>unknown, and your test has not shown any light on this issue.
>
>
>>I'll skip over the implied insult that I'm willfully deaf
>
>But that is the inevitable response isn't it? You call experienced
>enigneers deluded and then hope no one calls you deaf!
>In the end, your assertions are not supported by your test,
>and so they are opinions of how things work, not facts.
>
>I suspect that the real test to resolve this would require resources
>beyond any of us. Nonetheless, it will happen some day. There is
>something there.
>
>
>>and don't understand
>>how audio (and other kinds of) data works and await either a better test
>>than the one I used or proof that goes beyond 'everyone hear the difference'
>>when there would be obvious pressure to agree with that fact.
>
>But you are wrong again. The pressure, and there was a lot of it,
>was to make hundreds of CD's by the weekend for an upcoming
>conference. The client was highly motivated to hear no difference
>between my master CD and the high speed copies so they could
>get them out in time. But they did hear a difference and they
>hated what the high speed burn did to the sound.
>
>But you "know" they are deluded. Ok...
>
>DC"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>Nearly a third when interviewed again said
>they saw Bugs Bunny at Disneyland, which could never have happened.
Ok, taking your analogy, at least 2/3's of us do hear something.
I can live with that. The idea that all those who hear what you do
not are deluded, is quite a leap from that study... It only takes one.
>All of which is only to say that I don't trust even my own perceptions and
>memory as being perfect or anything close to it. So if someone says to me
>'these two thing sound different' and I flip the phase on the file and it
>cancels perfectly I guess the problem is my perception, I'm not about to
>override what I consider proof.
Unless, like I said, the phenomena is being generated somewhere you
are not looking. In which case, you are being silly in telling someone
it is not there.
>You obviously think differently, which is
>fine, we're Americans and we're still allowed minor freedoms like the right
>to disagree about sensory proof.
Oh-hey, we're even allowed to disagree about the definition of
adequacy in Thad's testing criteria. What a country!
>In any case, now we're on to CD players. Obviously they will sound different--different
>electronics, connections, motherboards, and so on. But you're arguing that
>playing CDs made at different speeds will actually sound different on the
>same CD player. Assuming the player works, I still don't buy it, because
>if the errors are sufficiently high to be perceivable then the disk should
>get spit out as a bad disk.
Or not. How do you know? Perhaps the threshold of audible
degredation is higher than the "spit out" threshold?
Do you know? Anyone tested this?
Looks like an area for further research to me...
>That, and I return to my example about dusty
>CDs--they generate slightly more errors than non-dusty CDs but I don't think
>they sound different. I might be wrong, and good ABY testing would show
that,
>so it seems to me that's the way to go.
I await your results.
DC"Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:44846739$1@linux...
>
> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
> >............and when removing a heatsink from a CPU, be sure to release
> the
> >mobo zif handle or you will bend the pins on the CPU. If you do this,
take
> a
> >credit card and carefully run it between the rows of pins.........best to
> do
> >this under one of those lamps with a magnifier. If none of them have
broken
> >off the surface this will straighten them out and the CPU should drop
back
> >in the zif slots on the CPU mount. If you don't have a credit card that
> is
> >thick enough, get yourself a knife blade of the proper width and fl
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