Compaq Presario for softsynth box. Good or bad?
;> >> >>My few is nail the fuckers when you can find them, and make life absolutely miserable for those who are helping them. But then you're making them mad and breeding millions more of them. The answer to this may be exactly what GWB is wanting to do...........give the people a say in their own lives. Of course, this pisses off the religious zealots who want to keep the population in lockdown, the Sunni's in Iraq who used to be in power in Iraq and now are not and the those who think we are exporting democracy at the point of a gun because they don't like our policies. Funny though, I sure don't see the general population of Afghanistan clamoring for the return of the Taliban. I also don't see a mass uprising in Iraq in favor of returning Sadaam to power. "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:42d7acb1@linux... > > "Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:42d7521a$1@linux... > > > > Germaine (NOT "Jackson" lol) to your post: > > For the record... I'm all for a peaceful solution; however (and > > let's now bring this over to a personal level where more people > > may be able to understand it rather than conceptualize it), if > > it's apparent that the guy on the opposite side of the ring > > from you does not want to take off his gloves, but would rather > > beat the shit out of you until you are dead, you have EXACTLY > > two choices: > > > > 1.) get beaten until you are dead. > > 2.) beat the shit out of him until he is. > > > > What would you do? > > > > This is pretty fucking simple to me. > > > > Neil > > > > I'm in total agreement here Neil the only problem with your scenario is, > after you've done the first guy....there are 1000 more right behind him and > half of the paying audience who came to watch this smack down is booing you > cause they think you were a little hard on his sorry ass. > > This is a religious war being waged by ignorant extremists who for whatever > reason have decided we're the enemy and as we all know once you bring > religion into the mix common sense and rational behavior go right out the > window. > > My few is nail the fuckers when you can find them, and make life absolutely > miserable for those who are helping them. > > More shit has been done in the name of God and quite frankly I think she's a > tad pissed right about now. > > > > Don > > > > > > "W. Mark Wilson" <wmarkwilson@verizon.net> wrote: > >>Randy Newman wrote a satire (tinyurl.com/d83pb) many years ago, the > >>tagline > > > >>of which, best expresses my current view on the best solution to the > >>unceasing problem of terrorism emanating from middle east command and > >>means.... which is to say "most" terrorism. > >> > >>I really am there. This is THE one way to ratt out the enemy and > >>simultaneously send the message to any further suiters: "Step right up > > for > >>your one-way bullet train to Allah, no purchase necessary, see fineprint > > on > >>tip of warhead for details." > >> > >>The thing that put me over the edge was the piece of human waste that blew > > > >>up the little kids a couple of days ago while one of our guys was handing > > > >>out candy to them. > >> > >>Anybody brave enough to say they think the same thing or have we all cowed > > > >>down to international version of the old Rodney King mantra, "Can't we all > > > >>just get long." Is there some plausible notion or a reason to believe > >>that > > > >>eventually, if we just keep doing what we're doing, the extremist > >>followers > > > >>of Bin ladin will just all of a sudden see it our way and fold up the biz > > > >>and integrate into peaceful society??? > >> > >>Dubya Mark Wilson > >> > >>"Neil" <OIUIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:42d6fc20$1@linux... > >>> > >>> In a nutshell... > >>> I think if there's room & resources enough for both Israelis & > >>> Palestinians in the region they want to live in, I think they > >>> should quit fighting & come up with a plan. HOWEVER... this is > >>> essentially a 3,000 year-old family feud we're looking at over > >>> there, and my point of view may be a little too simplistic to > >>> deal with the situation. I am not very familiar with the > >>> condition of the agricultural situation there, but I understand > >>> it's not the best in the world - in that case, both sides > >>> should realize that there may not be enough resources in that > >>> immediate area to provide for as many peple as want to live > >>> there... that's a problem, because you can't import everything > >>> food-wise. Israel is our ally, and we should stand by them, but > >>> I also hold the position that some kind of solution could be > >>> arrived at if both sides want peace more than war. OK, now > >>> this is the part where you rebut & tell me what a narrow-minded > >>> American I am, and how wrong my opinion is because you're > >>> Eurosuperior to me and have a much better world view because > >>> you read about cowboys & rodeos in Oklahoma & the drug problems > >>> in Miami in Der Spiegel & had a US soldier live next door to > >>> you & he was a dick, and of course, all Americans are exactly > >>> like he was. > >>> > >>> BTW, the Israeli thing is VERY different than the situation we > >>> face with radical Islam... they do NOT want peace more than > >>> war, they only want to kill all the "infidels" and sing praise > >>> & glory to their blood-soaked god Allah, while trying to knock > >>> the rest of the world back into the 12th century, economically, > >>> societally, and politically. So, knowing this, and seeing what > >>> they've done beginning on 9/11 and continuing to this day, I > >>> think a slightly "different" approach is what's called for. > >>> > >>> Neil > >>> > >> > >> > > > >Derek, I appreciate your writings here. It saying much about where the problems are in my thoughts too. I think we Europeans knows that "being big" allways have made problems when trying to be bigger than big:-) Big with weapons in hands are often showing up these weapons as their only "brain" when conflicts are coming. Our worlds problems, that started the first worldwar, was already coming in 1864, when Bismarck made the big, German nation under the hegemony of Preussen. It was the oldnordic traditions with the God Wotan (or Odin in Norwegian) that then again was showing up in the people. It's showing well in "To an unknown God" from 1864, from the pen of Nietzsche, one of the greatest German philosopher and writers in those times. The feeling of being big was setting the standard of human thinking hundred of years back in time in those days, maybe thousands. So the next 50 years was showing up with more and more problems, first of all in the southern region of Europe, in Austria and Hungary, where their minorities was suppressed (as the german minority in Austria, after the first worldwars ending, where Hitler was born and grown up, knowing the suppression on his own body). So the fatal shot in Sarajevo from a Serbian, that killed the Habsburger prince 28. June 1914, was just the drop that started it all in "old" modern times. I'm seeing exactly the same pattern in American behavings in our modern times as it was before the first world war. American sivilians generally don't know what a war is on their own body without their own civil war that was overupheating from the south with South Carolina in front, when Abraham Lincoln was being President in 1860. The American nation was splitted in two in those days with 11 states in the southern part and the rest in the norhern part, as far as I can remember in my readings about America. But I think most of the Americans are knowing these badly story very well. As far as I can understand in readings and seeing, the human feelings haven't changed much since then in north and south, after observe what's happening in the last two president votings. As Dejj wrote about the observations to the indians, I can see a nation of different nations that really have big problems with trusting each other after a long history-background. from their real homecountries that they have travelled from. So maybe it's really understandable with their "shoot first, then ask" menthality that's often showing up. The real American are nearly nonexistencional(what a word, I don't know if it's correct written at all) in America, as far as I can understand but I'm seeing Dejj have learned to do some observations from them about the "new" Americans, that's just seems to be German, French, Scandinavian etc. etc. So, as far as I can understand, the only real Americans are the indians. Hmm, I'm thinking too much when doing too much observations, it can be dangerous when thinking so much too much:-) But never mind, I have had my life, but our children and grandchildren shall take over the heredity and environment from us in the coming world. So I mean it's well worth to do something for them too, so maybe they can have real trust to other nations too, for a better future. Erling derek" <derekvonkrogh@gmx.net> skrev i en meddelelse news:42d758ac$1@linux... > > "DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> wrote: >>So, do you think that Rabin had any more hope of success with these >>people than did Clinton or anyone else? > ><br
Re: Compaq Presario for softsynth box. Good or bad?
br /> > > > so, yes, i do acknowledge that both roads can lead to success. > do you? it appears you dont, so whos the dogmatic type here? > > >>No it doesn't, or it would have worked with Hussein, Kim Il Sung, >>Hitler and the Branch Davidians. You are not allowing for insanity >>and evil in the world and you are assuming that a rational person's >>version of a more attractive situation will always be accepted. > > > from a palaestinian point of view, israel is the aggressor > that took their land. they dont have the military power, > so they go the terror route. being the frakkingeuropacifistidiotdude that > i am, i despise that > just as much, so id prefer it if you dont switch between > calling me a blind pacifist one moment and then a guy > that doesnt criticize palaestina (and thus somewhat supports the use of > terror), > whatever fits the best. > > from their point of view, theyre actually doing exactly > the same thing - use brute force. they dont have planes, > so they use suicide bombers. if you were on their side, > its what you would recommend. and if the enemy threatened to > use more power, youd recommend that the enemy gets a > demonstration of your force. > > somewhere in there lies a fundamental, unsolvable problem. > throw in a ticking clock (islamic countries getting the bomb > sooner or later, whether you want it or not), > and look again at the one guy that at the very least came > close to peace down there - ooooh it was that deescalation > dude. what a coincidence. > > im not saying its the ultimate solution. i find pretending > to have absolute solutions (a very popular practice here, > or so it seems) rather silly. im trying to have a civiliced > discussion about the possible different paths to a solution, > if there is one at all. i can ackownledge and talk about > both approaches, you seem to struggle with that part > and fall back into europe-is-so-whatever rants, which, > btw, are no better than george-bush-is-pure-evil bullshit. > its kindergarden. no thanks. > > > >>And what could you possibly dislike about the present Israeli >>leadership? Draggin settlers out by the scruff of the neck, >>responding to the worst terrorism with measured and rational >>responses, and showing great restraint. > > > yeah, as i said, they went back to 0, so i completely > agree with you. > > > >> See, this is the problem >>with europe. In your arrogance, because of living in a land that >>cannot envision war, > > > blah... > > > >> you assume all violence is failure > > > i repeatedly said the exact opposite but nevermind. rant on. > > > >> and that >>there must be a way to negotiate and finess this stuff. >>Suppose there isn't? > > > i did. its why im interested in this discussion. > a childish "i know 100% percent im right" attitude > isnt exactly helping, but at least in parts your > post gets over the standard stereotype attitude. it seems to > help that i repeatedly write about the things i dont > think, even though it doesnt fit into your arrogant euro pacifist drawer: > > > - i acknowledge the use of force as concept to end a conflict. > it often is the most peaceful way to go. > - i acknowledge the use of force as concept to end a conflict. > it often is the most peaceful way to go. > - i acknowledge the use of force as concept to end a conflict. > it often is the most peaceful way to go. > - i acknowledge the use of force as concept to end a conflict. > it often is the most peaceful way to go. > > - i dont blindly believe that everything on this world can be > negotiated > - i dont blindly believe that everything on this world can be > negotiated > - i dont blindly believe that everything on this world can be > negotiated > - i dont blindly believe that everything on this world can be > negotiated > > - im not here because of some anti-US agenda. i have family > in the US, have been there many times and like it here. > im only interested in a civiliced discussion about the > several approaches (yes i dare to believe there are several > approaches, because of the fact that theres a not too bad > track record of deescalation in history) > - im not here because of some anti-US agenda. i have family > in the US, have been there many times and like it here. > im only interested in a civiliced discussion about the > several approaches (yes i dare to believe there are several > approaches, because of the fact that theres a not too bad > track record of deescalation in history) > - im not here because of some anti-US agenda. i have family > in the US, have been there many times and like it here. > im only interested in a civiliced discussion about the > several approaches (yes i dare to believe there are several > approaches, because of the fact that theres a not too bad > track record of deescalation in history) > > > >> You haven't convinced me that Rabin could >>have pulled it off. > > > i didnt expect to. heck, i dont know it myself. > > >>Here's how the palestinians could have peace in a week: >> >>Go Ghandi on them. Sit down, inb the streets, renounce violence forever. >>Ask the world for justice. They would get their demands in a week >>or less, and if israel didn't like it, the american people would force it >>on them by witholding any more aid. > > > yes. too bad it wouldnt work because their religious > fanatic idiots. theres a reason why i talked so much > about the good timing of rabin. you gotta force religious > idiots into their own good. too bad the timing wasnt quite > right and a handful of steps at a time was still to > extreme of a dialog for some extremist idiots. it > wasnt even an islamic extremist idiot but a jewish one > who ultimatively destroyed it all - but it could very > well have been one. > > >> Why do you euros never demand a DAMN THING from the >>arabs and the palestinians, you hypocritical, arrogant fools? > > > oh we never demand a damn thing from the arabs? > thats funny. usually, especially where i live, its a tradition > to not ask anything from israel (obvious reason being > germanys history, were simply in no position to ask *anything* > from them). maybe you should study the people you want > to call hypocritical arrogant fools a little more before > you go ahead with it. > > but ive had enough of the stereotype discussion. suit yourself > and bathe in your stupid clichees if it makes you feel > any better. > > >>Why do you not rise up in horror and demand that these acts stop? >>Answer this one Derek, if you can. > > > oh, we do. we do. you just dont notice, cause you only > notice what fits into the dumb black and white picture you > have of us. > > >>Instead you speak of "root causes" and criticize Bush. It's wrong, and >>foolish. > > > i dont know what a "root cause" is. i know i definetly > didnt come here to criticize bush. i think i said so about > a dozen times. > > > >>I cannot support the euro position on this, because I NEVER hear >>any demands for change, or criticism of moslems coming from >>europe. Just of the jews and america. Until I see otherwise, >>we must stay the course. > > > see, one problem is that i can watch almost all US TV stations > and buy, read and understand almost all US press. so i can > regularly get an idea about whats going on in the US, and > germans usually are very interested in that, cause, despite > the current arguments, germany still looks up to the US. > its a bit like with an older brother you currently dont talk > much to, even though most germans probably would have a > problem in admitting that. > > on the other hand, i can tell from all the BS here that most > of you people have not the slightest idea about whats > going in germany. you talk about us not criticizing > muslims and not asking anything from those countries, > yet just as we speak theres an election campaign with > a debate about how to deal with turkey, and also > how to deal with potential islamists in our country, > with our current minister of internal security and > the guy who wants his post totally going berserk and > extremely to the right. and if theres a classic > debate in germany if ive ever seen one, its the debate > about whether its good that its a principal no-no to > openly criticize anything thats even remotely related > to anything jewish. there are extremists that have a problem > with that (they call it a sick case of non-judmentalism...sounds > familiar), i personally think its only adequate and should > stay so for at least another 50 years. > > so i dont really know what to reply to such accusations. > its so completely unreal, i dont know where to start. > > >>See, any response to terrorism besides negotiation is either >>"muscle flexing" or "cowboys" or "macho". > > > muscle flexing is what i called it, getting bored by the > "politics of force" terms i used the entire force. > "cowboys" and "macho" is yet another projection of yours. > > >> And you cannot >>see how america might see europe as so arrogant and sefl-absorbed >>that your views are not important to us? > > > thats a bit besides the point because im sure that > our views are not important to you either way. i do > get an idea about how these stereotypes come up and > especially, how they nicely grow, completely undisturbed > by anything that resembles reality. you know squat about > my country, period. its ridiculous. yet you believe > you can judge my country, where i, who probably knows a > couple hundred times more about YOUR country, make it > a point to repeatedly stress how i do NOT want or feel > entitled to judge or criticize it. its quite absurd, really. > > >>I am not evening saying that war is the only answer, just that if >>you have an ideology that precludes it, and you see it always as a >>failure > > > you know what, do me a favour here: please come up with > the quote where i said that i always see it as a failure. > either that or maybe you might want to actually stop it > and apologize. its really getting boring to repeat > and > repeat and repeat and repeat it, with no effect. > i have the feeling youre not talking to me but to > some imaginary "The Europe Dude" that you made up for > yourself to argue against. > > > >> do not expect us to listen since you care more for your >>ideology than you apparently care for our lives. > > > i do care only about the lives. at several points i > pointed out how i believe we all want the same (among > other things i mentioned this as reason why i dont belong > to the george-bush-is-evil-group). i do find the > ideal way to this common goal open for debate. > you obviously disagree on this one. its a little weird > why you would enter a debate about it anyway then. is it > just to spank my ideologic european ass? > > >>"Peace process" what a f**king joke that term is. It is the words >>that ideologues use to comfort themselves in the face of not only >>failure, but the continuing loss of innocent lives. > > > its a term rabin, a man that i admire, used himself, > so ill leave the name calling to you. one could argue > that the times where the terror was at an all time low > saved lots of lives, but whatever. > > > >>Tell you what. You tell me that you would take a knife, and jam it >>in the back of the next ghoul with a bomb, and you say thanks >>to the soldiers who have saved so many lives, and we'll talk about >>"peace processes". > > > heres some more for you so that you can get a picture > thats more accurate than what you currently believe to > be the typical euro or wh
atever. i beg you, please READ > what i say now: > > oh yes, as things are, i would stab a knife in that guys back. > its what the current situation asks for. > > read it? ok, so i can get a little more into detail: > > but it doesnt end there. i just stabbed the guy in the back. > what about the next guy? and the one after him? whats the > best way to avoid a neverending "guys with bombs" supply. > are there, god forbid, several possible approaches? is > it worth a discussion? cause, it would be unfair to > the soldiers to make them do this all the time while > we dont do anything for it to ever change. > > > > >> Until you allow for the full range of responses, >>you are acting as an advocate for them. > > > theres someone not ready for the "full range of responses" > here, but it aint me. > > >>So, if you could get a "peace process" going while he was at the >>peak of his powers, it might have succeeded? What? Until when, >>the following thursday? > > > in the right tempo to draw all religious fanatic idiots > on all sides (repeat: ALL sides. that includes the moslems! > do you hear me!) with them. > > >>His greed and corruption would have >>eventually toppled him and your peace process. > > > youre confusing things here, its what actually got him > to participate. and boy did it help him. it turned him > from an internationally sought after outlaw into > a somewhat respected politician, probably making him > richer than he ever dreamt of in the process. you tell > me that guy wanted to go back into tunnel system terrorist > mode? never. man is too selfish and greedy for that. > > >>Do you really believe that hamas and hizbullah would not have >>formed if Arafat had made a deal with Rabin?? > > > they had already formed. the difference was, arafat had them > under control and as long as he came home with results > from the peace process, he had the people in his back. > > > >>And why are they able to do this? Is it not the actions of the >>palestinians and the arabs? > > > why yes of course it is (see above). > > >> An american >>president who did not force them to accept peace in this scenario >>would be voted out or even impeached. > > > this is not where the conflict lies. the conflict, unfortunately, > lies in the religious aspects. i for one am pretty sure > that there would have been some sort of agreement > down there long ago, if only all this shitty land and > these shitty cities werent as "sacred" as they supposedly are. > as i said i dont have the ultimate solution. i just dont > believe you have it either, and comparing the track > record or the different approaches down there, im inclined > to believe that the brute force method, which worked other > times, doesnt seem to work this time. > > and that is an important discussion because it also > is a discussion about "how do you fight a fundamentalist > that doesnt fear death", about "is there a way to > get along with the islam", about "how do you go to > war with something as abstract as terror". yes, i do believe > this is the most important conflict to be solved and that > it could serve as role model for the same conflict were > having (or going to have) on a much bigger global scale. > > im worried about that. no wait, im sitting on my euro > ass waiting for everything to explode first, and then > ill think about it, cause thats how we arrogant euro > assholes are? right? > > ... > > >>You criticize Bush, but he blasts Israel every single time they >>respond to terrorism as we have. What hypocrisy! > > > yeah, it would be if i would criticize bush for not criticizing > israel. of course i nowhere said that. again, youre kindly > invited to come up with a quote. > > or wait, maybe you misunderstood this one: > >> the US dont reign over israel - theyll >>>do what THEY think is best for them. > > > with "they" i of course mean israel. my very point was > that bush can criticize them all he wants (and he does), > but they dont respond much to that, and thats i sad irony > that so much of the arabic hatred towards israel comes > from the overestimated power the US supposedly has on > israel. > > >>So we eliminate leaders that sponsor terrorism, and provide hiding >>places for them, we kill them, without mercy, wherever we can find, >>them, and we spread modernity and democracy, and we stay at >>it until we win. > > > yes thats your approach. it sometimes worked in the > past, sometimes it didnt. just like deescalation. > theres no perfect solution that automatically is the > best solution at all times. > > >> I believe this is the only solution and that negotiation >>is impossible with islamofascists. > > > and i say youre focusing on the wrong thing, this is just not > enough. getting rid of islamofascists (or fascists of > any kind, for that matter) is one thing. brute force seems > the best way for that. trying to avoid that such fascists > gain power on a regular basis in the future is, imo, the maybe > even more important goal. diplomacy, holding oneself to > the high standards we used to at least pretend to have, that > kind of stuff seems like the more promising way to go for > that (unless you want to tell me that you believe that the > very concept of diplomacy is at fault). > > the problem is that solution nr.1 is the direct opposite > of solution number nr.2. theres room for improvement here. > at least thats what i think, when i look at israel, or, > to use another example for a change, afghanistan, where > my selfish country does the dirty laundry for you without > you noticing because its not in the news. > > >>And what do you offer in place of this accursed religion? >>Darwin? Pacifism? An enlightened social contract between >>free moral people? Think these things will sell to the islamofascists? >>Me neither. These are weak ideas and subject to the opinions of whoever >>offers them. >>Meaningless phrases full of intent, signifying nothing. > > > just like institutionalized religion, really. only difference > being that is has a much cleaner historical track record. > but im not about to even start hoping that there will be > a significant change here anytime soon, cause im not > religious about that either. this is a change that comes > over time, separation of religion and politics... > it seemed to get better in the second half of the > last century. currently it seems to get worse again. > oh well. > > > >>Perhaps they do not serve God at all. Perhaps at minimum they >>have perverted Islam? Your hatred of religion will not offer an >>alternative. > > > no hatred. a very cynical distance though, yes, definetly. > i did say a few words about personal belief on the one > hand on huge monotheistic religious institutions on the other hand and > whether > the latter is any good for this planet. > you can go back and read it if youre interested, but i guess > for now its enough. and now ill go to bed. all that > non-non-judgementalism has make me tired. maybe i secrectly am a > politically correct euro hypocrite after all, but im > doing my best ;-)This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000202090307070204020708 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know if you cats have seen this but it's pretty humourous so here ya go.... jef Last Updated: April 5, 1994 The Book of Creation Chapter 1 1 In the beginning God created Dates. 2 And the date was Monday, July 4, 4004 BC. 3 And God said, let there be light; and there was light. And when there was Light, God saw the Date, that it was Monday, and he got down to work; for verily, he had a Big Job to do. 4 And God made pottery shards and Silurian mollusks and pre-Cambrian limestone strata; and flints and Jurassic Mastodon tusks and Picanthopus erectus skulls and Cretaceous placentals made he; and those cave paintings at Lasceaux. And that was that, for the first Work Day. 5 And God saw that he had made many wondrous things, but that he had not wherein to put it all. And God said, Let the heavens be divided from the earth; and let us bury all of these Things which we have made in the earth; but not too deep. 6 And God buried all the Things which he had made, and that was that. 7 And the morning and the evening and the overtime were Tuesday. 8 And God said, Let there be water; and let the dry land appear; and that was that. 9 And God called the dry land Real Estate; and the water called he the Sea. And in the land and beneath it put he crude oil, grades one through six; and natural gas put he thereunder, and prehistoric carboniferous forests yielding anthracite and other ligneous matter; and all these called he Resources; and he made them Abundant. 10 And likewise all that was in the sea, even unto two hundred miles from the dry land, called he resources; all that was therein, like manganese nodules, for instance. 11 And the morning unto the evening had been a long day; which he called Wednesday. 12 And God said, Let the earth bring forth abundantly every moving creature I can think of, with or without backbones, with or without wings or feet, or fins or claws, vestigial limbs and all, right now; and let each one be of a separate species. For lo, I can make whatsoever I like, whensoever I like. 13 And the earth brought forth abundantly all creatures, great and small, with and without backbones, with and without wings and feet and fins and claws, vestigial limbs and all, from bugs to brontosauruses. 14 But God blessed them all, saying, Be fruitful and multiply and Evolve Not. 15 And God looked upon the species he hath made, and saw that the earth was exceedingly crowded, and he said unto them, Let each species compete for what it needed; for Healthy Competition is My Law. And the species competeth amongst themselves, the cattle and the creeping things; and some madeth it and some didn't; and the dogs ate the dinosaurs and God was pleased. 16 And God took the bones from the dinosaurs, and caused them to appear mighty old; and cast he them about the land and the sea. And he took every tiny creature that had not madeth it, and caused them to become fossils; and cast he them about likewise. 17 And just to put matters beyond the valley of the shadow of a doubt God created carbon dating. And this is the origin of species. 18 And in the Evening of the day which was Thursday, God saw that he had put in another good day's work. 19 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness, which is tall and well-formed and pale of hue: and let us also make monkeys, which resembleth us not in any wise, but are short and ill-formed and hairy. And God added, Let man have dominion over the monkeys and the fowl of the air and every speices, endangered or otherwise. 20 So God created Man in His own image; tall and well-formed and pale of hue created He him, and nothing at all like the monkeys. 21 And God said, Behold I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of the earth. But ye shalt not smoketh it, lest it giveth you ideas. 22 And to every beast of the earth and every fowl of the air I have given also every green herb, and to them it shall be for meat. But they shall be for you. And the Lord God your Host suggesteth that the flesh of cattle goeth well with that of the fin and the claw; thus shall Surf be wedded unto Turf. 23 And God saw everything he had made, and he saw that it was very<br
/> good; and God said, It just goes to show Me what the private sector can accomplish. With a lot of fool regulations this could have taken billions of years. 24 And the evening of the fifth day, which had been the roughest day yet, God said, Thank me it's Friday. And God made the weekend. Chapter 2 1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all in five days, and all less than six thousand years ago; and if thou believest it not, in a sling shalt thou find thy hindermost quarters 2 Likewise God took the dust of the ground, and the slime of the Sea and the scum of the earth and formed Man therefrom; and breathed the breath of life right in his face. And he became Free to Choose. 3 And God made a Marketplace eastward of Eden, in which the man was free to play. And this was the Free Play of the Marketplace. 4 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow four trees: the Tree of Life, and the Liberty Tree, and the Pursuit of Happiness Tree, and the Tree of the Knowledge of Sex. 5 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, This is my Law, which is called the Law of Supply and Demand. Investeth thou in the trees of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, and thou shalt make for thyself a fortune. For what fruit thou eatest not, that thou mayest sell, and with the seeds thereof expand thy operations. 6 But the fruit of the tree of the Knowledge of Sex, thou mayest no eat; nor mayest thou invest therein, nor profit thereby nor expand its operations; for that is a mighty waste of seed. 7 And the man was exceeding glad. But he asked the LORD God: Who then shall labor in this Marketplace? For I am no management, being tall and well-formed and pale of hue? 8 And the LORD God said unto himself, Verily, this kid hath the potential which is Executive. 9 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every fowl of the air, and brought them unto Adam to labor for him. And they labored for peanuts. 10 Then Adam was again exceeding glad. But he spake once more unto the LORD God, saying, Lo, I am free to play in the Marketplace of the LORD, and have cheap labor in plenty; but to whom shall I sell my surplus fruit and realize a fortune thereby? 11 And the LORD God said unto himself, Verily, this is an Live One. 12 And he caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam and he took from him one of his ribs, which was an spare rib. 13 And the spare rib which the LORD God had taken from the man, made he woman. And he brought her unto the man, saying: 14 This is Woman and she shall purchase your fruit; and ye shall realize a fortune thereby. For Man produceth and Woman consumeth, wherefore she shall be called the consumer. 15 And they were both decently clad, the Man and the Woman, from the neck even unto the ankles, so they were not ashamed. Chapter 3 1 Now the snake in the grass was more permissive than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Why has thou accepted this lowly and submissive role? For art thou not human, even as the man is human? 2 And the woman said unto the snake in the grass, the LORD God hath ordained that I am placed under the man, and must do whatsoever he telleth me to do; for is he not the Man? 3 But the snake in the grass laughed an cunning laugh, and said unto the woman, Is it not right and just that thou shouldst fulfill thy potential? For art thou not comely in thy flesh, even as the man is comely in his flesh? 4 And the woman said, Nay, I know not, for hath not the LORD God clad us decently, from the neck even unto the ankles; and forbidden that we eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Sex? 5 But the snake in the grass said unto the woman, whispering even into her very ear, saying, Whatsoever feeleth good, do thou it; and believeth thou me, it feeleth good. 6 And when the woman saw the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Sex, that it was firm and plump and juicy, she plucked thereof, and sank her teeth therein, and gave also to her husband, and he likewise sank his teeth therein. 7 And the eyes of both of them were opened, and they saw that they were not naked. 8 And the woman lossened then Adam's uppermost garment, and he likewise loosened hers; and she loosened his nethermost garment, and the man then loosened her nethermost garment; until they were out of their garments both, and likewise of their minds. 9 And, lo!, they did dance upon the grass of the ground, and they did rock backward, and roll forward continually; 10 And as they did rock and roll, the serpent that was cunning did play upon a stringed instrument of music, and did smite his tail upon the ground in an hypnotic rhythm, and he did sing in a voice that was like unto four voices: She loveth you, yea, yea, yea. 11 And they did both twist and shout, and fall into a frenzy, both the man and the woman, and lay themselves upon the ground, and commit there abominations. 12 And when they were spent from their abominations, they did take the herb bearing seed, and did roll it and smoke it; and lo! it gaveth them ideas, even as the LORD God had said; and they were like to commit new abominations. 13 Now the LORD God was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, with his dog; and as Adam and his wife were beginning these new abominations, the LORD God did stub the toe of his foot upon their hindermost quarters. 14 And the LORD God waxed wroth, and said unto Adam, Wherefore art thou naked? And what is that thou smokest? And why art thou not at thy work? For have I not said that it is the man's part to produce, and the part of the woman to consume whatever he produceth? 15 And Adam and his wife did look upon one another, and did giggle. 16 Whereupon the LORD God waxed exceeding wroth, and he said, Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldst not eat? 17 And the man said, The woman whom you gavest to be with me made me do it. 18 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou has done? And the woman said, The snake in the grass made me do it. 19 And the snake in the grass said, The devil made me do it. 20 And the LORD God said unto the snake in the grass, Thou art an permissive beast; wherefore art thou cursed to crawl upon they belly, and be made into belts and boots and handbags hereafter. 21 Unto the woman He said, Since thou has harkened unto the snake in the grass which is broad-of-mind and permissive; henceforth let it be thy lot to be confused and scattered in thy brains, and to be plagued by demons who shall tempt thee to become that which thou canst not be: such as an warrior, or an extinguisher of fires, or an operator of heavy machinery. 22 And since thou has put aside the decent clothing wherein I clad thee, here after no garment shall satisfy thee, and thou shalt be overcome by longings to change thy raiment every spring and fall. 23 And above all this, since thou hast desired to tast of the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Sex, now let thy very body be a curse unto thee. From generation unto generation, men shalt whistle and hoot after thee as thou passest; yea, and women also. 24 And unto Adam he said, Woe unto thee who hast harkened not to the voice of the LORD thy God, but rather to her who is thy inferior; for thou wast free to choose. Now shalt thou be banished from the Marketplace and the Free Play thereof; neither shalt thou pluck the fruit from the Trees of Life and Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. 25 In the sweat of they face shalt thou earn thy bread, and bankruptcy shall be thy lot; and upon thy back, as a burden unto thee, thou shalt bear Big Government; for thou has sinned. 26 And the LORD God said unto the man, Behold, thy knowledge of sex shall be as a curse upon thee and they generations; and thy loins shall be a trial to thee. 27 For whensoever thou goest into a public place, then shall thy member rise up; when thou sitteth to eat and drink among they fellows, likewise shall it rise up; yea, even when thou standeth before the people to preach unto them in my name, shall it rise up, and be a scandal unto thee, and make an unseemly lump in thy garments; yet when thou goest into thy wife shall thy member wither, and rise up not. 28 And then the LORD God was silent, and waxed sad, and made as if to leave them there. But he turned and spoke softly unto Adam and his wife Eve, saying, Knowest thou something? Mine only hope is this: That someday, ye have children who do unto you the way ye have done unto Me. -- Tony Hendra & Sean Kelly Andrew Tong <http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/%7Ewerdna/autobio.html>, <http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/%7Ewerdna/autobio.html>werdna@ugcs.caltech.edu <http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/%7Ewerdna/> ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ HTML <http://info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/MarkUp/MarkUp.html> Created: March 29, 1994 rick wrote: >with all the vitriolic comments from both sides of an argument, is it >any wonder we all will eventually resort to extreme measures. i'll be >the first to publicly admit that i would if given the chance, shoot >any christian / muslim, (or what ever religion they are) who will >threaten me because they'll never be satisfied that i have not met >their idea of the righteousness. really, is it just me, or are >criminals, criminals...unless in their mind their interpretation of >god is on their side is the right one to have? you know, god is a >great moral idea, that is until you throw people into the >equation...then it sucks because we suck...always have, always will. > >as an ex carpenter i still have access to wood, nails and other >stuff...go for it. > >;o) > > --------------000202090307070204020708 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know if you cats have seen this but it's pretty humourous so here ya go.... jef Last Updated: April 5, 1994 The Book of Creation Chapter 1 1 In the beginning God created Dates. 2 And the date was Monday, July 4, 4004 BC. 3 And God said, let there be light; and there was light. And when there was Light, God saw the Date, that it was Monday, and he got down to work; for verily, he had a Big Job to do. </dd
there. But he turned and spoke softly unto Adam and his wife Eve, saying, Knowest thou something? Mine only hope is this: That someday, ye have children who do unto you the way ye have done unto Me. -- Tony Hendra & Sean Kelly <author>Andrew Tong</author>, werdna@ugcs.caltech.edu HTML Created: March 29, 1994 rick wrote: with all the vitriolic comments from both sides of an argument, is it any wonder we all will eventually resort to extreme measures. i'll be the first to publicly admit that i would if given the chance, shoot any christian / muslim, (or what ever religion they are) who will threaten me because they'll never be satisfied that i have not met their idea of the righteousness. really, is it just me, or are criminals, criminals...unless in their mind their interpretation of god is on their side is the right one to have? you know, god is a great moral idea, that is until you throw people into the equation...then it sucks because we suck...always have, always will. as an ex carpenter i still have access to wood, nails and other stuff...go for it. ;o) --------------000202090307070204020708--.....uh, didn't you guys bomb the be-jeeziz out of the Garden of Eden recently? 8 ) justcron wrote: >We've eaten from the Tree of Knowledge and now we're using the Knowledge to >create Nuclear Weapons and inject human stem cells into monkeys. It will >be no surprise when we get kicked out of our Garden of Eden by God or >Nature. > > > >News flash... already kicked out. "justcron" <justcron@hydrorecords.compound> wrote in message news:42d6eab0@linux... > We've eaten from the Tree of Knowledge and now we're using the Knowledge > to create Nuclear Weapons and inject human stem cells into monkeys. It > will be no surprise when we get kicked out of our Garden of Eden by God or > Nature. >Dude, Im drawaing a parallel between the Garden of Eden and Earth... or are you just heckling again "Mark McCurdy" <gmmccurdy@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:42d7c93c$1@linux... > News flash... already kicked out. > > > "justcron" <justcron@hydrorecords.compound> wrote in message > news:42d6eab0@linux... >> We've eaten from the Tree of Knowledge and now we're using the Knowledge >> to create Nuclear Weapons and inject human stem cells into monkeys. It >> will be no surprise when we get kicked out of our Garden of Eden by God >> or Nature. >> > >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.<br
oreign Invaders! Fuck me, how dumb do you have to be not to get this not-to-fucking-subtle point? If the shoe were on the other foot you would react no differently. One of you nazis, don't remember who, said in another thread that they thought it was "them" who were doing the bombing, not "us". Just as a reminder, the US has been bombing Iraq into a god-forsaken moonscape since '89. Over 500,000 children have died since then as a direct consequence of US military, oh-so-compassionate, action. And please knock it off with the old "well they bombed NYC so we're retaliating." chestnut. If you take the time to read the statements of Bin Laden you will see that he's not a nut at all. The reasons he gives for his actions are clearly backed up by all objective histories of the conflict in this region, A conflict that does not, as someone here falsely assumed, go back millenia. PS, it wasn't Iraq that did the bombing, Saddam had nothing to do with it. The Arabs and the Jews were living peacefully side-by-side well into the 20th century. This is fully backed up by historians, check it for yourself. It wasn't untill the US decided to create a client state in '48 that trouble began. Hey, stoopid, how would you feel if China decided it was going to give Native Americans an offical homeland and they decided to hack off a piece of New York or California and kick the citizens out, putting the Natives in charge of the state and relocating you "terrorists" to camps in outlying regions. It's pretty fucking obvious why the Palistinians are upset. And as for Iraq, only the dumbest of the dumb are still parroting the solidly discredited lies the were conjured up by the US gov't to justify this invasion. The historical fact is that the US and it's allies have been meddling in this region since the 1800's in order to capture the oil supplies. See where I'm going with this yet? If you substiute terms you'll see quite clearly that they can do no differently, just as you would do no differently in their situation. A small, defencless nation, Iraq must do what it can to get the US out of their country. Yet you continue to cast their self-deffence as terrorism. Shame on you psychpaths. So, should we continue to speak dispicably, idioticly, inhumanly and pathologically of increasing and sustaining human carnage and suffering, as you have proposed? Or is this type of thinking actually the fuel that fires these war crimes. .....just a little something to thing about..... jk Mr Simplicity wrote: >>My few is nail the fuckers when you can find them, and make life absolutely >> >> >miserable for those who are helping them. > >But then you're making them mad and breeding millions more of them. The >answer to this may be exactly what GWB is wanting to do...........give the >people a say in their own lives. Of course, this pisses off the religious >zealots who want to keep the population in lockdown, the Sunni's in Iraq who >used to be in power in Iraq and now are not and the those who think we are >exporting democracy at the point of a gun because they don't like our >policies. Funny though, I sure don't see the general population of >Afghanistan clamoring for the return of the Taliban. I also don't see a mass >uprising in Iraq in favor of returning Sadaam to power. > >"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:42d7acb1@linux... > > >>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:42d7521a$1@linux... >> >> >>>Germaine (NOT "Jackson" lol) to your post: >>>For the record... I'm all for a peaceful solution; however (and >>>let's now bring this over to a personal level where more people >>>may be able to understand it rather than conceptualize it), if >>>it's apparent that the guy on the opposite side of the ring >>>from you does not want to take off his gloves, but would rather >>>beat the shit out of you until you are dead, you have EXACTLY >>>two choices: >>> >>>1.) get beaten until you are dead. >>>2.) beat the shit out of him until he is. >>> >>>What would you do? >>> >>>This is pretty fucking simple to me. >>> >>>Neil >>> >>> >>> >>I'm in total agreement here Neil the only problem with your scenario is, >>after you've done the first guy....there are 1000 more right behind him >> >> >and > > >>half of the paying audience who came to watch this smack down is booing >> >> >you > > >>cause they think you were a little hard on his sorry ass. >> >>This is a religious war being waged by ignorant extremists who for >> >> >whatever > > >>reason have decided we're the enemy and as we all know once you bring >>religion into the mix common sense and rational behavior go right out the >>window. >> >>My few is nail the fuckers when you can find them, and make life >> >> >absolutely > > >>miserable for those who are helping them. >> >>More shit has been done in the name of God and quite frankly I think she's >> >> >a > > >>tad pissed right about now. >> >> >> >>Don >> >> >> >> >>>"W. Mark Wilson" <wmarkwilson@verizon.net> wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Randy Newman wrote a satire (tinyurl.com/d83pb) many years ago, the >>>>tagline >>>> >>>> >>>>of which, best expresses my current view on the best solution to the >>>>unceasing problem of terrorism emanating from middle east command and >>>>means.... which is to say "most" terrorism. >>>> >>>>I really am there. This is THE one way to ratt out the enemy and >>>>simultaneously send the message to any further suiters: "Step right up >>>> >>>> >>>for >>> >>> >>>>your one-way bullet train to Allah, no purchase necessary, see fineprint >>>> >>>> >>>on >>> >>> >>>>tip of warhead for details." >>>> >>>>The thing that put me over the edge was the piece of human waste that >>>> >>>> >blew > > >>>>up the little kids a couple of days ago while one of our guys was >>>> >>>> >handing > > >>>>out candy to them. >>>> >>>>Anybody brave enough to say they think the same thing or have we all >>>> >>>> >cowed > > >>>>down to international version of the old Rodney King mantra, "Can't we >>>> >>>> >all > > >>>>just get long." Is there some plausible notion or a reason to believe >>>>that >>>> >>>> >>>>eventually, if we just keep doing what we're doing, the extremist >>>>followers >>>> >>>> >>>>of Bin ladin will just all of a sudden see it our way and fold up the >>>> >>>> >biz > > >>>>and integrate into peaceful society??? >>>> >>>>Dubya Mark Wilson >>>> >>>>"Neil" <OIUIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:42d6fc20$1@linux... >>>> >>>> >>>>>In a nutshell... >>>>>I think if there's room & resources enough for both Israelis & >>>>>Palestinians in the region they want to live in, I think they >>>>>should quit fighting & come up with a plan. HOWEVER... this is >>>>>essentially a 3,000 year-old family feud we're looking at over >>>>>there, and my point of view may be a little too simplistic to >>>>>deal with the situation. I am not very familiar with the >>>>>condition of the agricultural situation there, but I understand >>>>>it's not the best in the world - in that case, both sides >>>>>should realize that there may not be enough resources in that >>>>>immediate area to provide for as many peple as want to live >>>>>there... that's a problem, because you can't import everything >>>>>food-wise. Israel is our ally, and we should stand by them, but >>>>>I also hold the position that some kind of solution could be >>>>>arrived at if both sides want peace more than war. OK, now >>>>>this is the part where you rebut & tell me what a narrow-minded >>>>>American I am, and how wrong my opinion is because you're >>>>>Eurosuperior to me and have a much better world view because >>>>>you read about cowboys & rodeos in Oklahoma & the drug problems >>>>>in Miami in Der Spiegel & had a US soldier live next door to >>>>>you & he was a dick, and of course, all Americans are exactly >>>>>like he was. >>>>> >>>>>BTW, the Israeli thing is VERY different than the situation we >>>>>face with radical Islam... they do NOT want peace more than >>>>>war, they only want to kill all the "infidels" and sing praise >>>>>& glory to their blood-soaked god Allah, while trying to knock >>>>>the rest of the world back into the 12th century, economically, >>>>>societally, and politically. So, knowing this, and seeing what >>>>>they've done beginning on 9/11 and continuing to this day, I >>>>>think a slightly "different" approach is what's called for. >>>>> >>>>>Neil >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> > > > > --------------040208050705000808030808 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit my friends you are surely missing the point. The idea that you should keep killing "them" before they kill you is is pretty sociopathic I think. Please remember a few important things about the "war". Let's start with "them". The dehumanizing of others is an important diagnostic point in the evalutation of pathological personality disorders. Underlying this is the idea that one is not harming a "person" but a "thing" or "non-person". It allows the ego to remain intact while performing otherwise unthinkable actions. But who are "them"?. For the most part they are normal, everyday famillies like yours and mine. Shop keepers, TV reparimen, gas station attendants, secretaries....who only want to live freely, in peace, raising their famillies and living their lives. "They" are not, for the most part, combatants. Or they weren't before the US got their. The US has done more harm in this region, to the people and their country, than Saddam ever could have. The US, in it's quest for middle-east domination vis-a-vis their oil supply, has turned a thriving people (albeit with nasty leadership) into an empoverished, toxic waistland. And for you who can't see the forest for the trees, let me make the fairly-fucking-clear observation that if you have a natural resourse that someone else wants and they decide to come and get it from you by force (the Chinese could do this) You will be labeled "insurgents" and you wives and children will suddenly become "enemy combatants". Oh, what, if someone invades you you're gonna sit on your fat ass and let them take you home? No, you are gonna fight them off, you nasty terrorist scum...or so you would be labeled in the media of the nation invading you. (quite likely in the name of God) Wake up you collective heads of knuckle. What the hell do you think's going on over there? It's people deffending their land, their homes and their lives from - Foreign Invaders! Fuck me, how dumb do you have to be not to get this not-to-fucking-subtle point? If the shoe were on the other foot you would react no differently. One of you nazis, don't remember who, said in another thread that they thought it was "them" who were doing the bombing, not "us". Just as a reminder, the US has been bombing Iraq into a god-forsaken moonscape since '89. Over 500,000 children have died since then as a direct consequence of US military, oh-so-compassionate, action. And please knock it off with the old "well they bombed NYC so we're retaliating." chestnut. If you take the time to read the statements of Bin Laden you will see that he's not a nut at all. The reasons he gives for his actions are clearly backed up by all objective histories of the conflict in this region, A conflict that does not, as someone here falsely assumed, go back millenia. PS, it wasn't Iraq that did the bombing, Saddam had nothing to do with it. The Arabs and the Jews were living peacefully side-by-side well into the 20th century. This is fully backed up by historians, check it for yourself. It wasn't untill the US decided to create a client state in '48 that trouble began. Hey, stoopid, how would you feel if China decided it was going to give Native Americans an offical homeland and they decided to hack off a piece of New York or California and kick the citizens out, putting the Natives in charge of the state and relocating you "terrorists&q
/> arrived at if both sides want peace more than war. OK, now this is the part where you rebut & tell me what a narrow-minded American I am, and how wrong my opinion is because you're Eurosuperior to me and have a much better world view because you read about cowboys & rodeos in Oklahoma & the drug problems in Miami in Der Spiegel & had a US soldier live next door to you & he was a dick, and of course, all Americans are exactly like he was. BTW, the Israeli thing is VERY different than the situation we face with radical Islam... they do NOT want peace more than war, they only want to kill all the "infidels" and sing praise & glory to their blood-soaked god Allah, while trying to knock the rest of the world back into the 12th century, economically, societally, and politically. So, knowing this, and seeing what they've done beginning on 9/11 and continuing to this day, I think a slightly "different" approach is what's called for. Neil --------------040208050705000808030808--as far as I can understand but I'm seeing Dejj have learned > to do some observations from them about the "new" Americans, that's just > seems to be German, French, Scandinavian etc. etc. Erling, The *only* reason tht I posted all this stuff was that I was trying to make two points that I don't think I made. The first one was to try to give some small background of my life that was relative to the idea that I had a lot invested in my hopes of how I thought the world could be and so did these folks from Europe and all over the world really, though most of them were from Europe and the US. The second point was that I was absolutely floored when these things were being observed and shown to me by people who were about as familiar with Europeans and Americans as beings from another planet. I didn't like hearing this. It certainly didn't fit my picture of how the world should be and what is really scary about it it that no one but the Indians even recognized what was going on. I'm nothing special. Everyone has their own reasons for believing what they believe. My post was well meant, but in retrospect, it seems sort of silly to me and I shouldn't have even wasted my time or anyone else's time on this. Regards, Deej "erlilo" <erlilo@online.no> wrote in message news:42d7c519@linux... > Derek, I appreciate your writings here. It saying much about where the > problems are in my thoughts too. > > I think we Europeans knows that "being big" allways have made problems when > trying to be bigger than > big:-) Big with weapons in hands are often showing up these weapons as their > only "brain" when conflicts are coming. > > Our worlds problems, that started the first worldwar, was already coming in > 1864, when Bismarck made the big, German nation under the hegemony of > Preussen. It was the oldnordic traditions with the God Wotan (or Odin in > Norwegian) that then again was showing up in the people. It's showing well > in "To an unknown God" from 1864, from the pen of Nietzsche, one of the > greatest German philosopher and writers in those times. The feeling of being > big was setting the standard of human thinking hundred of years back in time > in those days, maybe thousands. So the next 50 years was showing up with > more and more problems, first of all in the southern region of Europe, in > Austria and Hungary, where their minorities was suppressed (as the german > minority in Austria, after the first worldwars ending, where Hitler was born > and grown up, knowing the suppression on his own body). So the fatal shot in > Sarajevo from a Serbian, that killed the Habsburger prince 28. June 1914, > was just the drop that started it all in "old" modern times. > I'm seeing exactly the same pattern in American behavings in our modern > times as it was before the first world war. American sivilians generally > don't know what a war is on their own body without their own civil war that > was overupheating from the south with South Carolina in front, when Abraham > Lincoln was being President in 1860. The American nation was splitted in two > in those days with 11 states in the southern part and the rest in the > norhern part, as far as I can remember in my readings about America. But I > think most of the Americans are knowing these badly story very well. > As far as I can understand in readings and seeing, the human feelings > haven't changed much since then in north and south, after observe what's > happening in the last two president votings. > As Dejj wrote about the observations to the indians, I can see a nation of > different nations that really have big problems with trusting each other > after a long histor
point of view, israel is the aggressor > > that took their land. they dont have the military power, > > so they go the terror route. being the frakkingeuropacifistidiotdude that > > i am, i despise that > > just as much, so id prefer it if you dont switch between > > calling me a blind pacifist one moment and then a guy > > that doesnt criticize palaestina (and thus somewhat supports the use of > > terror), > > whatever fits the best. > > > > from their point of view, theyre actually doing exactly > > the same thing - use brute force. they dont have planes, > > so they use suicide bombers. if you were on their side, > > its what you would recommend. and if the enemy threatened to > > use more power, youd recommend that the enemy gets a > > demonstration of your force. > > > > somewhere in there lies a fundamental, unsolvable problem. > > throw in a ticking clock (islamic countries getting the bomb > > sooner or later, whether you want it or not), > > and look again at the one guy that at the very least came > > close to peace down there - ooooh it was that deescalation > > dude. what a coincidence. > > > > im not saying its the ultimate solution. i find pretending > > to have absolute solutions (a very popular practice here, > > or so it seems) rather silly. im trying to have a civiliced > > discussion about the possible different paths to a solution, > > if there is one at all. i can ackownledge and talk about > > both approaches, you seem to struggle with that part > > and fall back into europe-is-so-whatever rants, which, > > btw, are no better than george-bush-is-pure-evil bullshit. > > its kindergarden. no thanks. > > > > > > > >>And what could you possibly dislike about the present Israeli > >>leadership? Draggin settlers out by the scruff of the neck, > >>responding to the worst terrorism with measured and rational > >>responses, and showing great restraint. > > > > > > yeah, as i said, they went back to 0, so i completely > > agree with you. > > > > > > > >> See, this is the problem > >>with europe. In your arrogance, because of living in a land that > >>cannot envision war, > > > > > > blah... > > > > > > > >> you assume all violence is failure > > > > > > i repeatedly said the exact opposite but nevermind. rant on. > > > > > > > >> and that > >>there must be a way to negotiate and finess this stuff. > >>Suppose there isn't? > > > > > > i did. its why im interested in this discussion. > > a childish "i know 100% percent im right" attitude > > isnt exactly helping, but at least in parts your > > post gets over the standard stereotype attitude. it seems to > > help that i repeatedly write about the things i dont > > think, even though it doesnt fit into your arrogant euro pacifist drawer: > > > > > > - i acknowledge the use of force as concept to end a conflict. > > it often is the most peaceful way to go. > > - i acknowledge the use of force as concept to end a conflict. > > it often is the most peaceful way to go. > > - i acknowledge the use of force as concept to end a conflict. > > it often is the most peaceful way to go. > > - i acknowledge the use of force as concept to end a conflict. > > it often is the most peaceful way to go. > > > > - i dont blindly believe that everything on this world can be > > negotiated > > - i dont blindly believe that everything on this world can be > > negotiated > > - i dont blindly believe that everything on this world can be > > negotiated > > - i dont blindly believe that everything on this world can be > > negotiated > > > > - im not here because of some anti-US agenda. i have family > > in the US, have been there many times and like it here. > > im only interested in a civiliced discussion about the > > several approaches (yes i dare to believe there are several > > approaches, because of the fact that theres a not too bad > > track record of deescalation in history) > > - im not here because of some anti-US agenda. i have family > > in the US, have been there many times and like it here. > > im only interested in a civiliced discussion about the > > several approaches (yes i dare to believe there are several > > approaches, because of the fact that theres a not too bad > > track record of deescalation in history) > > - im not here because of some anti-US agenda. i have family > > in the US, have been there many times and like it here. > > im only interested in a civiliced discussion about the > > several approaches (yes i dare to believe there are several > > approaches, because of the fact that theres a not too bad > > track record of deescalation in history) > > > > > > > >> You haven't convinced me that Rabin could > >>have pulled it off. > > > > > > i didnt expect to. heck, i dont know it myself. > > > > > >>Here's how the palestinians could have peace in a week: > >> > >>Go Ghandi on them. Sit down, inb the streets, renounce violence forever. > >>Ask the world for justice. They would get their demands in a week > >>or less, and if israel didn't like it, the american people would force it > >>on them by witholding any more aid. > > > > > > yes. too bad it wouldnt work because their religious > > fanatic idiots. theres a reason why i talked so much > > about the good timing of rabin. you gotta force religious > > idiots into their own good. too bad the timing wasnt quite > > right and a handful of steps at a time was still to > > extreme of a dial
lapse.mpg > > >I really appreciate everyone talking about this... >First, let me say that, you acting superior while posting a pack of lies is bad enough, but, your calling people names is unacceptable. "Jef Knight" <"Jef Knight"> wrote: >The idea that you should keep killing "them" before they kill you is is >pretty sociopathic I think. Thanks for the analysis. Sure it isn't bipolar, or perhaps paranoid schizophrenic, or maybe just ADD? Them is the enemy, not the shopkeepers. The suicide bombers, the foreign terrorists, the state sponsors of terrorism. They are knowable, and they are killable. >Please remember a few important things about >the "war". Oh, this will be good. I know it will be real informed with "so" "many" "ironic" "quotes".... >Let's start with "them". The dehumanizing of others is an important >diagnostic point in the evalutation of pathological personality >disorders. Underlying this is the idea that one is not harming a >"person" but a "thing" or "non-person". It allows the ego to remain >intact while performing otherwise unthinkable actions. You obviously do not know any soldiers. Despite understanding that the ghouls must be killed, and understanding that they are indeed, ghouls, our soldiers pay a terrible price for doing the unthinkable, precisely because they are not able to completely depersonalize them. Only to have you call them pathological... Pathetic. And of course, the actions of the ghouls are not pathogical in Jef-land at all, They are understandable, maybe even noble! Maybe they are even like the minutmen! >But who are "them"?. For the most part they are normal, everyday >famillies like yours and mine. Shop keepers, TV reparimen, gas station >attendants, secretaries....who only want to live freely, in peace, BWAA HAHH AHHA HHHHAAAA! Oh that's good. Do you screenwrite for Michael Moore? They are foreigners who come into places like Fallujah and kill anyone who looks like they may desire freedom, take over the neighborhood, and rule by terror. Iraqis are even rising up and killing them now. They are also diehard baathists who want a return to the good ole days of rape rooms and plastic shredders. >The US has done more harm in this region, to the people and their >country, than Saddam ever could have. BULLSHIT. I guess you forgot about the entire familes, little kids and all, buried in the 300,000 person mass graves. I get it, you are a Saddam supporter. Ok, at least we know where you are coming from now. When you tell egregious lies like the one above, you lose all credibility. >The US, in it's quest for >middle-east domination vis-a-vis their oil supply, has turned a thriving >people (albeit with nasty leadership) into an empoverished, toxic >waistland. This is so stupid and dishonest it isn't even worth rebutting. It's too easy. OIl? We didn't steal their oil in 91 and we are not doing so now. Liar. >And for you who can't see the forest for the trees, let me make the >fairly-fucking-clear observation that if you have a natural resourse >that someone else wants and they decide to come and get it from you by >force (the Chinese could do this) You will be labeled "insurgents" and >you wives and children will suddenly become "enemy combatants". Well, it seems that "foreigners" and "former baathists" otherwise known as "corrupt" "murdering" "shitheads" who want to keep the old regime in place, might qualify as "insurgents", especially since they prefer the regime of the old murdering, raping, corrupt leader to actual democracy. Jef, you have very little ethics do you? >Wake up you collective heads of knuckle. What the hell do you think's >going on over there? It's people deffending their land, their homes and >their lives from - Foreign Invaders! Fuck me, how dumb do you have to be >not to get this not-to-fucking-subtle point? If the shoe were on the >other foot you would react no differently. Unfortunately it's all "not so fucking subtle" lies. The folks with the homes, with the families and shops and businesses all had purple fingers a few months ago, and have more character than "you" will ever "dream" of having. >One of you nazis, don't remember who, said in another thread that they >thought it was "them" who were doing the bombing, not "us". Just as a >reminder, the US has been bombing Iraq into a god-forsaken moonscape >since '89. Over 500,000 children have died since then as a direct >consequence of US military, oh-so-compassionate, action. More lies. Those deaths are a result of your friend Saddam using oil-for-food money to build palaces instead of food for his own people. His trial is about to start, why don't you watch it and weep. >And please knock it off with the old "well they bombed NYC so we're >retaliating." chestnut. If you take the time to read the statements of >Bin Laden you will see that he's not a nut at all. Why am I not surprised that you like him as much as you like Saddam? >The Arabs and the Jews were living peacefully side-by-side well into the >20th century. This is fully backed up by historians, check it for >yourself. It wasn't untill the US decided to create a client state in >'48 that trouble began. Hey, stoopid, how would you feel if China >decided it was going to give Native Americans an offical homeland and >they decided to hack off a piece of New York or California and kick the This is as inaccurate as it is simple minded. >See where I'm going with this yet? Yeah, stright to lefty-lobotomy land. And you are calling others idiots and psychopaths... Amazing. I am not going to respond in kind. BTW, I do not support the use of nuclear arms in this war at this point. Should your prediction about creating millions of new terrorists by our actions come true, all bets are off. We will live in freedom, not under the mullahs. The funny thing is that in your future, you get killed anyway, for some obscure offense against the koran, just like Theo Van Gogh did. You really ought to apologize to the group for the names you have called people. DC..........not partisan at all. This would imply something totally different to my dislike of Dan Rather and Michael Moore......because they represent themselves to be unbiased documentarians and they aren't. Plain and simple. As much of a whacko as I think he is, if some edtorial commentator (which is what Rather became before leaving in disgrace) came out with a photo op of Ted Kennedy taking a roadside sobriety test, I'd doubt that too because I'd have to consider the source before all else. This is ample reason for me to dismiss the credibility of Rather/CBS. I will, however, backtrack a bit here and admit that my first assumption was that this story *originated* with CBS/Rather. If so, then I'll not remove the plate of crow fro
m the oven. If not, then I'll might put it on the table and take a bite. Where did this story originate? Regards, DJ "justcron" <justcron@hydrorecords.compound> wrote in message news:42d804a6@linux... > referring to the gratuitous partisan comments... > > "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote in message > news:42d80477@linux... > > I'm assuming you are referring to my post as being typical of something. > > Perhaps you consider the reason for it as being a typical reaction to a > > typical spin. > > > > > > "justcron" <justcron@hydrorecords.compound> wrote in message > > news:42d803a0$1@linux... > >> > >> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote in message > >> news:42d80363@linux... > >> > I've witnessed building demolitions. That does look familiar, but > >> > you're > >> > just seeing one side of the very top floors. It's a pretty big stretch > > to > >> > think that what this is showing is caused by any particular means of > >> > structural failure. It's obviously a fialure. I didn't see this thing > > and > >> > hadn't heard of Dan Rather postulating this as a theory, but knowing > >> > the > >> > *Rather agenda*, it would not surprise me. I'm surprised CBS didn't > >> > have > >> > Michael Moore as co-anchor. > >> > >> heh heh... so typical. > >> > >> > "justcron" <justcron@hydrorecords.compound> wrote in message > >> > news:42d7fe1e$1@linux... > >> >> Anyway, I appreciate you following up on the conversation. > >> >> > >> >> I dont think there was pods on the planes, or bombs or remote control > > or > >> > any > >> >> of that crap. I just think theres some type of coverup and the only > >> >> smoking gun is WTC7, and the insider trading. > >> >> > >> >> Here's a better video of it: > >> >> http://www.911research.com/wtc/evidence/videos/docs/wtc7_col lapse2.mpg > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Who knows, maybe I'm wrong, but I dont really see too much structural > >> > damage > >> >> to the facade. > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > >"Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote in message news:42d808c6@linux... > .........not partisan at all. This would imply something totally different > to my dislike of Dan Rather and Michael Moore......because they represent > themselves to be unbiased documentarians and they aren't. Plain and > simple. Fair enough if thats what you believe. I mean personally I watched Bowling for Columbine and I thought it was incredibly balanced. > As much of a whacko as I think he is, if some edtorial commentator (which > is > what Rather became before leaving in disgrace) came out with a photo op of > Ted Kennedy taking a roadside sobriety test, I'd doubt that too because > I'd > have to consider the source before all else. I honestly never followed Dan Rather enough to notice his bias. It's annoying as hell that all 'journalists' spin the story their own way. > This is ample reason for me to dismiss the credibility of Rather/CBS. I > will, however, backtrack a bit here and admit that my first assumption was > that this story *originated* with CBS/Rather. If so, then I'll not remove > the plate of crow from the oven. If not, then I'll might put it on the > table > and take a bite. Where did this story originate? thats a difficult question to answer. Rather's only involvement was doing the news that day and commenting "That looks like what we've all seen when a building is destroyed by well placed dynamite" a simple observation, one which I have shared, and one which you are willing to dismiss due to the source. It's typical to shoot the messenger when they dont agree with you.Hmmmm..........OK..........NPR has some credibility with me.
a >terrorist incident. FEMA's report states that the cause of building's >collapse was fires. Presumably FEMA and the insurance company would be >interested in knowing if the building was instead demolished by the FDNY. >Moreover, the logistics of rigging a skyscraper for demolition in the space >of a few hours would be daunting to say the least, particularly given that >demolition teams would have to work around fires and smoke. > >A third explanation is less obvious but makes sense of the non-sequiturs in >the above explanations: perhaps Silverstein's statement was calculated to >confuse the issue of what actually happened to Building 7. By suggesting >that it was demolished by the FDNY as a safety measure, it provides an >alternative to the only logical explanation -- that it was rigged for >demolition before the attack. The absurdity of the FDNY implementing a plan >to "pull" Building 7 on the afternoon of 9/11/01 will escape most people, >who neither grasp the technical complexity of engineering the controlled >demolition of a skyscraper, nor its contradiction with FEMA's account of the >collapse, nor the thorough illlegality of such an operation. Thus the idea >that officials decided to "pull" Building 7 after the attack serves as a >distraction from the inescapable logic that the building's demolition was >planned in advance of the attack, and was therefore part of an inside job to >destroy the entire WTC complex. > >"justcron" <justcron@hydrorecords.compound> wrote in message news:42d809cb$1@linux... > It's typical to shoot the messenger when they dont agree with you. btw... sorry I meant that 'you' as plural, in general... not specifically to u deej."DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> wrote in message news:42d80a04$1@linux... > > All of this is addressed in the PM article. Read it. I have read it and it says nothing about Silverstein's admission to pulling the building... Or am I missing something? I know that what I just posted did start to expand into other conspiracies, but I'm specifically interested in pulling WTC7. If that turns out to be valid, then we can explore the additional issues. If we can find a WTC7 photo showing enough damage to bring down the building, I'll drop the whole thing.and one which you are willing to dismiss due to the > source. > > It's typical to shoot the messenger when they dont agree with you. > When the messenger is a questionable source, yes, I'll admit that I sometimes shoot first and ask questions later. I think this has something to do with the *life's too short* feeling I've got after watching Rather for way too many years. Gulty as charged. "justcron" <justcron@hydrorecords.compound> wrote in message news:42d809cb$1@linux... > > "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote in message > news:42d808c6@linux... > > .........not partisan at all. This would imply something totally different > > to my dislike of Dan Rather and Michael Moore......because they represent > > themselves to be unbiased documentarians and they aren't. Plain and > > simple. > > Fair enough if thats what you believe. I mean personally I watched Bowling > for Columbine and I thought it was incredibly balanced. > > > As much of a whacko as I think he is, if some edtorial commentator (which > > is > > what Rather became before leaving in disgrace) came out with a photo op of > > Ted Kennedy taking a roadside sobriety test, I'd doubt that too because > > I'd > > have to consider the source before all else. > > I honestly never followed Dan Rather enough to notice his bias. It's > annoying as hell that all 'journalists' spin the story their own way. > > > This is ample reason for me to dismiss the credibility of Rather/CBS. I > > will, however, backtrack a bit here and admit that my first assumption was > > that this story *originated* with CBS/Rather. If so, then I'll not remove > > the plate of crow from the oven. If not, then I'll might put it on the > > table > > and take a bite. Where did this story originate? > > thats a difficult question to answer. Rather's only involvement was doing > the news that day and commenting "That looks like what we've all seen when a > building is destroyed by well placed dynamite" a simple observation, one > which I have shared, and one which you are willing to dismiss due to the > source. > > It's typical to shoot the messenger when they dont agree with you. > >"DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> wrote in message news:42d80a04$1@linux... > > All of this is addressed in the PM article. Read it. PM: Many conspiracy theorists point to FEMA's preliminary report, which said there was relatively light damage to WTC 7 prior to its collapse. With the benefit of more time and resources, NIST researchers now support the working hypothesis that WTC 7 was far more compromised by falling debris than the FEMA report indicated. "The most important thing we found was that there was, in fact, physical damage to the south face of building 7," NIST's Sunder tells PM. "On about a third of the face to the center and to the bottom--approximately 10 stories--about 25 percent of the depth of the building was scooped out." NIST also discovered previously undocumented damage to WTC 7's upper stories and its southwest corner. Response: Where are the photos that prove 25% of Building 7 was scooped out? The photos published in reports, and those available on me Internet do not show anything other than trivial damage, such as some broken windows. Tom Franklin, a professional photographer for a New Jersey newspaper, traveled quickly to the World Trade Center to get photographs. According to his own report, he was standing in front of Building 7 at about 4 p.m.. He took lots of photos, but where are his photos of Building 7? Why would he ignore a skyscraper with 25% of its first 10 floors scooped out? ----------- PM: NIST investigators believe a combination of intense fire and severe structural damage contributed to the collapse, though assigning the exact proportion requires more research. Response: Where is evidence that there was an intense fire in Building 7? The photos taken in the afternoon do not show intense fires. Just because a few investigators believe something, that does not make it true. They need evidence to support their beliefs. ----------- PM: Second, a fifth-floor fire burned for up to 7 hours. "There was no firefighting in WTC 7," Sunder says. Investigators believe the fire was fed by tanks of diesel fuel that many tenants used to run emergency generators. Most tanks throughout the building were fairly small, but a generator on the fifth floor was connected to a large tank in the basement via a pressurized line. Says Sunder: "Our current working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel [to the fire] for a long period of time." Response: How can a fire burn for seven hours without spreading to other offices or other floors? Perhaps some diesel fuel was dripping from a supply pipe. Since the fire was small, and since the building had a steel frame with concrete floors, the fire could not travel to other offices. So how could such an insignificant fire bring down an entire skyscraper?none of these are my words... just a published 'debunking' of the popular mechanics article: > PM: Many conspiracy theorists point to FEMA's preliminary report, which > said there was relatively light damage to WTC 7 prior to its collapse. > With
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