e doomed by their sins. He never ever said people are basically good and this position is against everything he stood and died for. We can pursue this further if you like, but it is very clear. DC "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote: > >Bill L <bill@billlorent
zen.com> wrote: >>Did Jesus say all people are not basically good? > >No. > > >>I agree with Hubbard: what's real for you is real for you. I think that > >>is as fair and true a statement as can be made. Make your own decisions > >>and keep your own counsel. > > >Some things may be simply real. > >best, > >DC > >> >>DC wrote: >>> But, (and I am speaking to you and Erling here), both the >>> "myth making" view of faith and the opinions of Hubbard (and >>> many others) about human nature became moot if the evidence for >>> Jesus is compelling. >>> >>> >>> >>> DC >>> >>> >>> Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote: >>>> By the way, belief or non-belief in Jesus has absolutely nothing to do > >>>> with Scientology. Scientology is not "faith-based". It is entirely >>>> empirically derived and the technologies of Scientology are experienced >>> >>>> daily by Scientologists. Hubbard was trained as an engineer and he >>>> insisted that his technology be as workable and repeatable as e.g. the
and being > raised from the dead to reunite with His Father - this became the symbol of > what "being saved" is all about - allowing old ways to die, and a new life > to begin, not just living a good life. This is how the concept of being > sinners really becomes a beautiful thing - we aren't doomed to pay for our > mistakes forever. There is hope. We also can't keep making the same > mistakes without consequences, whether earthly or heavenly (the former is > common sense - keep hitting your thumb with a hammer, eventually you'll > break it ;-). > > In practice the change is real, and the heart does take on a new perspective > on our own lives, responsibilities, people around us, etc. We don't stop > making mistakes (but that's what forgiveness is for - not excuses, but > second chances), and we don't become perfect humans, but now we have hope > beyond what the world has to offer. > > Happy Easter all, > Dedric > > > On 3/20/08 8:03 AM, in article 47e27184@linux, "Bill L" > <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote: > >> Personally, repeat *personally*, I think some creepy, disgusting Dark >> Ages priests said "all are lost and doomed by their sins". That is their >> control mechanism: "Do what we say or burn forever in Hell. Only I know >> the truth." Personally, I think that kind of coercion is disgusting. >> >> I prefer to believe Jesus was full of love and trust and belief in the >> goodness of man. >> >> >> DC wrote: >>> Sorry, I misread your question. >>> >>> Jesus taught that all are lost and all are doomed by their >>> sins. He never
the self determinism of the individual. If you start by looking for problems you will certainly have no trouble finding them and in the end you will increase them and their power. This is one of the problems with our health system and especially mental health system: they concentrate on disease, not health and wellness. Look, I don't want to argue religion. I respect everyone's right to believe what is real to them, but certain things I have observed I like to share because I want to help. Dedric Terry wrote: > I'll only post this in response to your two posts since this topic is not > only off topic, but also unpopular: > > Actually the Bible says Romans 3:22-24 "22 This righteousness from God comes > through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23 > for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified > freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." > > Some use "turn or burn" ta
all are doomed by their >> sins. He never ever said people are basically good and >> this position is against everything he stood and died for. >> >> We can pursue this further if you like, but it is very clear. >> >> DC >> >> >> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote: >>> >>>Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote: >>>>Did Jesus say all people are not basically good? >>> >>>No. >>> >>> >>>>I agree with Hubbard: what's real for you is real for you. I think that >>> >>>>is as fair and true a statement as can be made. Make your own decisions >>> >>>>and keep your own counsel. >>> >>> >>>Some things may be simply real. >>> >>>best, >>> >>>DC >>> >>>> >>>>DC wrote:
ever said people are basically good and >>> this position is against everything he stood and died for. >>> >>> We can pursue this further if you like, but it is very clear. >>> >>> DC >Ok,
this is your version of the "human myth making" story. What if Jesus was not a myth? What if the only version that is a myth is the one we make up? DC "erlilo" <erlingl@tdcadsl.dk> wrote: >...and what did the New testament wrote about Jesus and the children? >Basically, a child are borned without any sin at all, but the familyculture >a child is growing up in, will allways color the way a child will live and >go. If you're telling your child that it is lost and doomed because of sins &
>>>>> But, (and I am speaking to you and Erling here), both the >>>>> "myth making" view of faith and the opinions of Hubbard (and >>>>> many others) about human nature became moot if the evidence for >>>>> Jesus is compelling. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> DC >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote: >>>>>> By the way, belief or non-belief in Jesus has absolutely nothing to >> do >>> >>>>>> with Scientology. Scientology is not "faith-based". It is entirely >>>>>> empirically derived and the technologies of Scientology are >>>>>> experienced >>>>> >>>>>> daily by Scientologists. Hubbard was trained as an engineer and he >>>>>> insisted that his technology be as workable and repeatable as e.g. the >>> >>>>>> formula for building a bridge. >>>>>> >>>>>> Many Christians, Jews, what have you are also Scientologists - but >>>>>> saner, happier ones. Hubbard wrote, "What is true for you is what is >>> >>>>>> true for you." >>>>>> >>>>>> DC wrote: >>>>>>> I just have one question for you both. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What would change in your beliefs if it could be shown that >>>>>>> the real Jesus was the one of the Bible? That all the best >>>>>>> evidence, when considered outside of philosophical >>>>>>> pre-commitments, shows that Jes
us was who he said he was, >>>>>>> and the story of his origin, purpose, his life, death and >>>>>>> yes his resurrection, as shown in the Bible, is pretty much spot-on? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What would happen to "faith as human myth-making and story >>>>>>> telling"? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What would happen to Scientology? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If it is true, would it not affect your beliefs profoundly? If so, >>>>>>> then I would suggest resolving this issue is an important task; >>>>>>> perhaps the most important of all the things we do in this >>>>>>> life. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> DC >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What would happen to faith as mere human >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> All people are basically good and are trying to survive as they >>>>>>>> understand it. With that starting point you can understand and help >>> >>>>>>>> others. All people are basically good. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> erlilo wrote: >>>>>>> Most of the difference and >>>>>>>>> problems are in the HUMAN made religions that's for the most have >>>a >>>>> culture >>>>>>>>> thousand of years back in the history. It's special to think it >>>>>>>>> over, >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> bible was a product that's started our christian stories from the >>>Middle >>>>>>>>> East with stories about God and The Garden of Eden(in Iran) and all >>>>> the >>>>>>> wars >>>>>>>>> following up, long before someone could write at all. >>>>> >>> >> > >"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:47e22dbe$1@linux... > > It always amazes me how so many people do not under stand Christianity. A > child is not told it is doomed, just the opposite. The child is told that > if the child is baptized and believes in Jesus Christ, the child is saved! > ......and that's the problem.Hi James, Probably made at the same factory as the Air. Hopefully the Lenovo won't burn peoples laps. If it is as expensive and as limited as all the mini/micro/thin laptops PC manufacturers have produced over the years and now Apple is trying to do then it to will be a flop. Chris J
ames wrote: > http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/16724/ -- Chris Ludwig ADK Pro Audio (859) 635-5762 www.adkproaudio.com chrisl@adkproaudio.comYup. That's the way I see it. Well put my friend. Steve "We have to accept and believe that Jesus, not only loves us, but also took the burden of our own sin upon himself by dying on the cross and being raised from the dead to reunite with His Father" Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote: >I'll only post this in response to your two posts since this topic is not >only off topic, but also unpopular: > >Actually the Bible says Romans 3:22-24 "22 This righteousness from God comes >through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23 >for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified >freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." > >Some use "turn or burn" tactics, but I don't agree with that approach. At >the same time, the "do whatever feels right to you" mentality is also >fatally flawed. Between those two is where Jesus taught - we aren't >perfect, and will never be on our own (anyone that disagrees, please attempt >to go a whole day without making a mistake of any kind, whether in action, >how you talk to someone else, or how you think ;-). Only through God's >grace and by his love can be be perfected in Him - not perfect humans, but >loved perfectly (i.e. beyond what we practice and understand in human love) > >The point of the above passage, and the idea that we have all sinned is that >we can't receive God's grace and forgiveness, and become "righteous" in His >sight by our own power, deeds or merit. It isn't a scare tactic even though >it has been used that way. > >We have to accept and believe that Jesus, not only loves us, but also took >the burden of our own sin upon himself by dying on the cross and being >raised from the dead to reunite with His Father - this became the symbol of >what "being saved" is all about - allowing old ways to die, and a new life >to begin, not just living a good life. This is how the concept of being >sinners really becomes a beautiful thing - we aren't doomed to pay for our >mistakes forever. There is hope. We also can't keep making the same >mistakes without consequences, whether earthly or heavenly (the former is >common sense - keep hitting your thumb with a hammer, eventually you'll >break it ;-). > >In practice the change is real, and the heart does take on a new perspective >on our own lives, responsibilities, people around us, etc. We don't stop >making mistakes (but that's what forgiveness is for - not excuses, but >second chances), and we don't become perfect humans, but now we have hope >beyond what the world has to offer. > >Happy Easter all, >Dedric > > >On 3/20/08 8:03 AM, in article 47e27184@linux, "Bill L" ><bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote: > >> Personally, repeat *personally*, I think some creepy, disgusting Dark >> Ages priests said "all are lost and doomed by their sins". That is their >> control mechanism: "Do what we say or burn forever in Hell. Only I know >> the truth." Personally, I think that kind of coercion is disgusting. >> >> I prefer to believe Jesus was full of love and trust and belief in the >> goodness of man. >> >> >> DC wrote: >>> Sorry, I misread your question. >>> >>> Jesus taught that all are lost and all are doomed by their >>> sins. He never ever said people are basically good and >>> this position is against everything he stood and died for. >>> >>> We can pursue this further if you like, but it is very clear. >>> >>> DC >.....Don, there will allways be questions if we don't understand things, and that's reall good... This is the end for me in this discussion that went far away from its origin, where I was the second in this thread, asking questions about the difference between China's invasion in Tibet or USA's invasion in Iraq, when James asked to boycott China after their behavings in Tibet in the last. I think there must have been problems to get any answers on this since I couldn't see any;-) Erling "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> skrev i en meddelelse news:47e29d1f$1@linux... > > Ok, this is your version of the "human myth making" story. > > What if Jesus was not a myth? > > What if the only version that is a myth is the one we make up? > > DC > > > "erlilo" <erlingl@tdcadsl.dk> wrote: >>...and what did the New testament wrote about Jesus and the children? >>Basically, a child are borned without any sin
at all, but the >>familyculture > >>a child is growing up in, will allways color the way a child will live and > >>go. If you're telling your child that it is lost and doomed because of >>sins > >>in your storytellings to a child, you are really taking the first steps > to >>destroy a childs mind. In my eyes, religious brainwashing are just the >>words > >>for this kind of doings. We are just giving our sivilization into the >>hands > >>of our childrens future with the ways we're living the day. >> >>There have allways been good and bad sivilizations, that could live in >>peace > >>or make war, that have really been colored by good or bad leaders. For me, > >>the old Bible is just a historical "cooking book" with recipes of ways to > >>live, after someone seeing and learning about good and bad ways to live, > >>told from mouth to mouth by good people up against thousand of years >>before > >>someone could written the words down, with all that colorations the words > >>had got from mouth to mouth in those thousand of years before being >>written > >>down. >>I will just call it with few words: The Wisdom Words of Life. >> >>Than
br /> >>>>>>> insisted that his technology be as workable and repeatable as e.g. > the >>>> >>>>>>> formula for building a bridge. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Many Christians, Jews, what have you are also Scientologists - but >>>>>>> saner, happier ones. Hubbard wrote, "What is true for you is what > is >>>> >>>>>>> true for you." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> DC wrote: >>>>>>>> I just have one question for you both. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What would change in your beliefs if it could be shown that >>>>>>>> the real Jesus was the one of the Bible? That all the best >>>>>>>> evidence, when considered outside of philosophical >>>>>>>> pre-commitments, shows that Jesus was who he said he was, >>>>>>>> and the story of his origin, purpose, his life, death and >>>>>>>> yes his resurrection, as shown in the Bible, is pretty much >>>>>>>> spot-on? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What would happen to "faith as human myth-making and story >>>>>>>> telling"? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What would happen to Scientology? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If it is true, would it not affect your beliefs profoundly? If so, >>>>>>>> then I would suggest resolving this issue is an important task; >>>>>>>> perhaps the most important of all the things we do in this >>>>>>>> life. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What would happen to faith as mere human >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> All people are basically good and are trying to survive as they >>>>>>>>> understand it. With that starting point you can understand and >>>>>>>>> help >>>> >>>>>>>>> others. All people are basically good. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> erlilo wrote: >>>>>>>> Most of the difference and >>>>>>>>>> problems are in the HUMAN made religions that's for the most have >>>>a >>>>>> culture >>>>>>>>>> thousand of years back in the history. It's special to think it > >>>>>>>>>> over, >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> bible was a product that's started our christian stories from the >>>>Middle >>>>>>>>>> East with stories about God and The Garden of Eden(in Iran) and > all >>>>>> the >>>>>>>> wars >>>>>>>>>> following up, long before someone could write at all. >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote: >you have to click on mec B's i/o's to activate them like you did on >the first mec. the rest is duplication of the first wiring of it's >i/o's. as far as the adat connections go i believe deej said that one >per mec is all that will work. > The one to a MEC thing is with Windows XP only. >On 20 Mar 2008 01:52:38 +1000, "Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net> >wrote: > >> >>And it is in that patchbay that I already am running 16 inputs. >>Rod, I have tried to contact you and some others by way of e-mail and get >>"undeliverable" >>One thing that is not helping me here and is why I am trying to e-mail some >>of you is because I am extremely dyslexic. Typing these posts take me sometimes >>3-5 minutes for what takes anyone else 20 seconds. It's appears to me scrambled >>and upside down at times. Watching me write out a check is halarious! But >>not to me. Sooooo anyhow I really wish I could talk to someone on the phone >>and would have this licked in minutes. Then I could quit pestering you guys. >> >>Please attempt to e-mail me and hopefully I can call one of you who are running >>2 MECs. >>Blessings, >>Steve >> >>Paul Artola <artola@comcast.net> wrote: >>>Right you are, Rod. The Patchbay screen is what I meant. Thanks for >>>catching that. >>> >>>- Paul >>> >>>On 20 Mar 2008 00:30:57 +1000, "Rod Lincoln" >>><rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>Paul is correct, but I'd use the three 8 ins if you have them. >>>>I think Paul means the patchbay screen, instead of the mixer screen, you >>>>get there by hitting B. >>>>Rod >>>>Paul Artola <artola@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>Whoa, Nelly! >>>>> >>>>>In your original post, you didn't mention having adat and 8-in cards, >>>>>so your real question is how to get all the hardware to appear in the >>>>>Paris mixer window? >>>>> >>>>>I am a PC user, not a Mac guy, so for me, I have found that using any >>>>>more than 1 mec worth of i/o requires enlarging the mixer window to >>>>>about full-screen size. Then I can lay out all the components and >>>>>spread them out so the traces are clearly delineated. Are you having a >>>>>problem changing the size of the mixer window? >>>>> >>>>>In the mixer window, all the Paris inventory shows up in the list on >>>>>the righthand side. You may have to scroll down to see everything, but >>>>>if it all is hooked up right, it should be listed. >>>>> >>>>>Check out the Paris Reference Manual, Chapter 4, starting on page 31 >>>>>(or page 61 of the acrobat softcopy). >>>>> >>>
nd therefore the tax revenue that a gallon of gas generates is proportionately reduced. To make up for the revenue shortfall, we're going to get taxed into oblivion........and I was even sorta' thinking about voting for a Democrat for president. The new forumla for the American economy is to tax businesses more so that they will continue to go elsewhere while screwing the workers who will be losing their jobs. Gimme some of that.Hello Erling, You have expressed, and on quite a few occasions, the "human myth-making" view of faith, and Christianity in particular, and blamed "religion" for much evil, even including damaging the minds/psyches of the young with these "stories". Saying these things, is not simply an opinion, it is an assertion of fact: of how things really are. Saying "whatever works for you" is merely assenting to this view, because if there is a concrete reality to the life of Christ, if he really did what he is said to have done, then the "myth making" perspective is simply wrong, and what we think means much less than what he thinks. So, there is a level more fundamental than our opinions, and it is the answer to whether Jesus was real and lived as Christians believed and was raised from the dead. Everything follows from that answer. To assert that opinion is everything, and whatever works for you is as good as whatever works for the next guy, is to assent to Christ being a myth and his resurrection a lie. But what if the evidence says they are likely to be true? Would it matter then what Zoroaster said? Zeus? The Spaghetti Monster? DC "erlilo" <erlingl@tdcadsl.dk> wrote: >....Don, there will allways be questions if we don't understand things, and >that's reall good... >This is the end for me in this discussion that went far away from its >origin, where I was the second in this thread, asking questions about the >difference between China's invasion in Tibet or USA's invasion in Iraq, whe
r /> >think there must have been problems to get any answers on this since I >couldn't see any;-) > >Erling > >"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> skrev i en meddelelse news:47e29d1f$1@linux... >> >> Ok, this is your version of the "human myth making" story. >> >> What if Jesus was not a myth? >> >> What if the only version that is a myth is the one we make up? >> >> DC >> >> >> "erlilo" <erlingl@tdcadsl.dk> wrote: >>>...and what did the New testament wrote about Jesus and the children? >>>Basically, a child are borned without any sin at all, but the >>>familyculture >> >>>a child is growing up in, will allways color the way a child will live and >> >>>go. If you're telling your child that it is lost and doomed because of >>>sins >> >>>in your storytellings to a child, you are really taking the first steps >> to >>>destroy a childs mind. In my eyes, religious brainwashing are just the >>>words >> >>>for this kind of doings. We are just giving our sivilization into the >>>hands >> >>>of our childrens future with the ways we're living the day. >>> >>>There have allways been good and bad sivilizations, that could live in >>>peace >> >>>or make war, that have really been colored by good or bad leaders. For me, >> >>>the old Bible is just a historical "cooking book" with recipes of ways to >> >>>live, after someone seeing and learning about good and bad ways to live, >> >>>told from mouth to mouth by good people up against thousand of years >>>before >> >>>someone could written the words down, with all that colorations the words >> >>>had got from mouth to mouth in those thousand of years before being >>>written >> >>>down. >>>I will just call it with few words: The Wisdom Words of Life. >>> >>>Thanks for listening. >>> >>>Erling >>> >>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> skrev i en meddelelse >>>news:47e1929b$1@linux... >>>> >>>> Sorry, I misread your question. >>>> >>>> Jesus taught that all are lost and all are doomed by their >>>> sins. He never ever said people are basically good and >>>> this position is against everything he stood and died for. >>>> >>>> We can pursue this further if you like, but it is very clear. >>>> >>>> DC >>>> >>>> >>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote: >>>>>>Did Jesus say all people are not basically good? >>>>> >>>>>No. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I agree with Hubbard: what's real for you is real for you. I think that >>>>> >>>>>>is as fair and true a statement as can be made. Make your own decisions >>>>> >>>>>>and keep your own counsel. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Some things may be simply real. >>>>> >>>>>best, >>>>> >>>>>DC >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>DC wrote: >>>>>>> But, (and I am speaking to you and Erling here), both the >>>>>>> "myth making" view of faith a
nd the opinions of Hubbard (and >>>>>>> many others) about human nature became moot if the evidence for >>>>>>> Jesus is compelling. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> DC >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> By the way, belief or non-belief in Jesus has absolutely nothing to >>>> do >>>>> >>>>>>>> with Scientology. Scientology is not "faith-based". It is entirely >>>>>>>> empirically derived and the technologies of Scientology are >>>>>>>> experienced >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> daily by Scientologists. Hubbard was trained as an engineer and he >>>>>>>> insisted that his technology be as workable and repeatable as e.g. >> the >>>>> >>>>>>>> formula for building a bridge. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Many Christians, Jews, what have you are also Scientologists - but >>>>>>>> saner, happier ones. Hubbard wrote, "What is true for you is what >> is >>>>> >>>>>>>> true for you." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> DC wrote: >>>>>>>>> I just have one question for you both. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What would change in your beliefs if it could be shown that >>>>>>>>> the real Jesus was the one of the Bible? That all the best >>>>>>>>> evidence, when considered outside of philosophical >>>>>>>>> pre-commitments, shows that Jesus was who he said he was, >>>>>>>>> and the story of his origin, purpose, his life, death and >>>>
>>>>> yes his resurrection, as shown in the Bible, is pretty much >>>>>>>>> spot-on? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What would happen to "faith as human myth-making and story >>>>>>>>> telling"? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What would happen to Scientology? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If it is true, would it not affect your beliefs profoundly? If so, >>>>>>>>> then I would suggest resolving this issue is an important task; >>>>>>>>> perhaps the most important of all the things we do in this >>>>>>>>> life. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What would happen to faith as mere human >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> All people are basically good and are trying to survive as they >>>>>>>>>> understand it. With that starting point you can understand and >>>>>>>>>> help >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> others. All people are basically good. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> erlilo wrote: >>>>>>>>> Most of the difference and >>>>>>>>>>> problems are in the HUMAN made religions that's for the most have >>>>>a >>>>>>> culture >>>>>>>>>>> thousand of years back in the history. It's special to think it >> >>>>>>>>>>> over, >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> bible was a product that's started our christian stories from the >>>>>Middle >>>>>>>>>>> East with stories about God and The Garden of Eden(in Iran) and >> all >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> wars >>>>>>>>>>> following up, long before someone could write at all. >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > >there are no shortage of idiots out there. raising taxes does not fix problemsWhat I liked is the juxtaposition of him saying how this is gonna hurt with the smiling face of the dude. John wrote: > there are no shortage of idiots out there. raising taxes does not fix problemsErling, this explains a LOT. If your experience with Christianity is with Apostolic Christians, than I totally understand your thinking. What I'm about to say is not meant to offend anybody especially you Erling. What I am about to say is fact as I know it and my opinion based on my personal experiences with Apostolic Christians that I know. First off, there are many different versions of Christianity. Some have been twisted and perverted the teachings of Christianity over history for their own purposes. Others have mis-taught the bible due to misunderstanding or misinterpretation. And others have concocted and added to the bible, which it says in the bible not to do. Many phonies claim to be Christians that use the name of Jesus Christ to make money. Because anybody can claim to be a Christian, Christianity is not perfect. Not all Christians are the same, and may have differing beliefs. Christianity is not alone when it comes to these things, other religions also have similar problems, such as extremism. From my experience and knowledge, the Apostolic Christians are a misguided bunch. They have many strict man made rules, such as, women can not swim with men, they co
t people to think all Christians are a bunch of nuts. The phony TV evangelist that claim to be good Christians, and then try to sell you their latest book on how to think and how to send them more money, give Christianity a bad name. It's especially bad when these hypocrites go off with prostitutes and so on. The real bad part about this is, that is what most non believers are exposed to, and end up believing that that is what Christianity is about. It is vary unfortunate that Christians are viewed so poorly because of a few. "erlilo" <erlingl@tdcadsl.dk> wrote: >James, did you read DC's post that I answered and do I wrote English so >badly that you couldn't see or understand what I wrote about the child? I >know very well Christianity after living with my family in the American >Church, "The Apostolic Faith" in Stavanger, Norway, as far as I remember in >my youth. I know excactly well how it is to be confirmed with sins and "the >right way of living" from my whole youth in late '40 and the '50. To be >curious on the society in the town and the pulsing life outside The >Apostolic Church, I was told nearly all the times in my youth that the >people there lived in sin, so I should stay far away from them. >Unbelieveable nice people in the Church, that did know what the bible said >but didn't know anything about the society around them, because the society >was just living in sin and was doomed in their eyes. Not any harm at all >with these people, just that they had isolated themself from the society in >those old biblereadings, in the name of Christ. >So please James, don't tell me that I don't understand Christianity way of >living, if it is that you're trying to say with your lines here. > >Thanks for listening and give it a try to understand what I really wrote. > >Erling > >"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse >news:47e22dbe$1@linux... >> >> It always amazes me how so many people do not under stand Christianity. A >> child is not told it is doomed, just the opposite. The child is told that >> if the child is baptized and believes in Jesus Christ, the child is saved! >> >> "erlilo" <erlingl@tdcadsl.dk> wrote: >>>...and what did the New testament wrote about Jesus and the children? >>>Basically, a child are borned without any sin at all, but the >>>familyculture >> >>>a child is growing up in, will allways color the way a child will live and >> >>>go. If you're telling your child that it is lost and doomed because of >>>sins >> >>>in your storytellings to a child, you are really taking the first steps >> to >>>destroy a childs mind. In my eyes, religious brainwashi
d got from mouth to mouth in those thousand of years before being >>>written >> >>>down. >>>I will just call it with few words: The Wisdom Words of Life. >>> >>>Thanks for listening. >>> >>>Erling >>> >>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> skrev i en meddelelse >>>news:47e1929b$1@linux... >>>> >>>> Sorry, I misread your question. >>>> >>>> Jesus taught that all are lost and all are doomed by their >>>> sins. He never ever said people are basically good and >>>> this position is against everything he stood and died for. >>>> >>>> We can pursue this further if you like, but it is very clear. >>>> >>>> DC >>>> >>>> >>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote: >>>>>>Did Jesus say all people are not basically good? >>>>> >>>>>No. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I agree with Hubbard: what's real for you is real for you. I think that >>>>> >>>>>>is as fair and true a statement as can be made. Make your own decisions >>>>> >>>>>>and keep your own counsel. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Some things may be simply real. >>>>> >>>>>best, >>>>> >>>>>DC >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>DC wrote: >>>>>>> But, (and I am speaking to you and Erling here), both the >>>>>>> "myth making" view of faith and the opinions of Hubbard (and >>>>>>> many others) about human nature became moot if the evidence for >>>>>>> Jesus is compelling. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> DC >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> By the way, belief or non-belief in Jesus has absolutely nothing to >>>> do >>>>> >>>>>>>> with Scientology. Scientology is not "faith-based". It is entirely >>>>>>>> empirically derived and the technologies of Scientology are >>>>>>>> experienced >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> daily by Scientologists. Hubbard was trained as an engineer and he >>>>>>>> insisted that his technology be as workable and repeatable as e.g. >> the >>>>> >>>>>>>> formula for building a bridge. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Many Christians, Jews, what have you are also Scientologists - but >>>>>>>> saner, happier ones. Hubbard wrote, "What is true for you is what >> is >>>>> >>>>>>>> true for you." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> DC wrote: >>>>>>>>> I just have one question for you both. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What would change in your beliefs if it could be shown that >>>>>>>>> the real Jesus was the one of the Bible? That all the best >>>>>>>>> evidence, when considered outside of philosophical >>>>>>>>> pre-commitments, shows that Jesus was who he said he was, >>>>>>>>> and the story of his origin, purpose, his life, death and >>>>>>>>> yes his resurrection, as shown in the Bible, is pretty much >>>>>>>>> spot-on? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What would happen to "faith as human myth-making and story >>>>>>>>> telling"? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What would happen to Scientology? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If it is true, would it not affect your beliefs profoundly? If so, >>>>>>>>> then I would suggest resolving this issue is an important task; >>>>>>>>> perhaps the most important of all the things we do in this >>>>>>>>> life. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> DC >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What would happen to faith as mere human >>>>>>
gt; problems are in the HUMAN made religions that's for the most have >>>>>a >>>>>>> culture >>>>>>>>>>> thousand of years back in the history. It's special to think it >> >>>>>>>>>>> over, >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> bible was a product that's started our christian stories from the >>>>>Middle >>>>>>>>>>> East with stories about God and The Garden of Eden(in Iran) and >> all >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> wars >>>>>>>>>>> following up, long before someone could write at all. >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > >This is what i've been saying. When Al Gore buys global offsets for ten cents and sells them for a dollar, it's a big bunch of money making bullshit! Now this trilateralist bureaucrat bunch of SOBs are going to try to make it a sin tax that we will all have to pay. You know once the government gets a tax passed through they will never repeal it. We will be paying it for then on! It's a scare tactic to cow the people in to believing this bunch of bullshit. There is no significant man made global warming, it's a lie to shift the wealth out of the United States while these rats and their friends get wealthy doing it. "Mr. Simplicity" <noway@jose.net> wrote: > http://blog.mlive.com/annarbornews/2007/09/dingell_global_wa rming_may_req.html > >This is the biggest load of disingenuous hubris I've seen in a while. More >hypocracy. Whether you get it or not, your intelligence has just been >insulted and be assured that what this is really all about it preparing you >to be bent over as consumption falls. Expect more of this BS as gas usage >goes down and therefore the tax revenue that a gallon of gas generates is >proportionately reduced. To make