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items: Paris mix bus and converter quality? Better than cubase sx / RME ???
items: Re: Paris mix bus and converter quality? Better than cubase sx / RME ???

Paris mix bus and converter quality? Better than cubase sx / RME ???
type: item
description: 's no=20 comparison. One is &gt; decidedly more difficult, more advanced, and = more=20 clever. And harder to play. &gt; &gt; And for the last 20 years, = when=20 I've wanted to learn a tune, I've listened &gt; to a recorded = performance of=20 the tune, and then worked out some parts to &gt; imitate what I hear, = but=20 with jazz the expectation is different. For starters &gt; most = recorded=20 versions are incredibly personalised to the player. If I copy &gt; = what I=20 hear on a record, I'll just sound like somebody emulating that=20 particular &gt; recording, where the expectation is that I should be = doing my=20 own, different, &gt; original version. I mean I'm quite capable of = doing=20 that, but I need to learn &gt; the tune somehow, and while I have = some=20 ability to read charts, I'm hardly &gt; an expert at it, as I've = found that=20 working off the actual recordings is &gt; generally far more = effective for=20 pop/rock music. Not so for jazz it seems. &gt; &gt; Anybody know = of=20 somewhere where I can download copies of jazz standards &gt; "as = they're=20 written"? A reference point as to how the original melody goes &gt; = before=20 people start "doing jazz" to it? Bet there's no such = thing...&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20 ....would &gt; be handy, for me at least. MIDI files even might be=20 ideal. &gt; &gt; And of course I don't actually know any real = jazz musos.=20 I know some people &gt; who know a bit of jazz, but nobody where I'd = say=20 there expertise is in jazz. &gt; &gt; I think I just need to bite = the=20 bullet and start put
creator: SF
date: 2006-03-28T11:05:35-00:00

Re: Paris mix bus and converter quality? Better than cubase sx / RME ???
type: item
description: t; wrote in message news:4447e868$1@linux... >>>I think what amazes me is that this was supposably on Public Access >>>TV...I can't see how it lives up to any community standards anywhere >>> >>> DOn >>> >>> >>> "Tony Benson" <tony@standinghampton.com> wrote in message >>> news:4447e38e@linux... >>>> Doctor no, right? >>>> >>>> ;>) >>>> >>>> For what it's worth, I though it was mildly funny. Sad, but funny. He >>>> is so totally oblivious to own his behavior. It did look like he was >>>> reading from the Yellow Pages though, didn't it? >>>> >>>> Tony >>>> >>>> >>>> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:4447e1a0@linux... >>>>> Oh I forgot to ask >>>>> >>>>> who are you? >>>>> >>>>> Don >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "no" <no@nonono.com> wrote in message news:4447d6b1$1@linux... >>>>>> >>>>>> offensive trash! It seams these days that everybody wants to twist >>>>>> and pervert >>>>>> everything they can, especially the truth. Some are self proclaimed. >>>>>> Some >>>>>> want to rewrite history to suit their agenda. Some want to portray >>>>>> pimps, >>>>>> prostitutes, thieves and drug dealers as heros. This is the >>>>>> mentality of >>>>>> a bastard society. Some have been given the keys to the cities that >>>>>> were >>>>>> once beautiful, now the cities are corrupted and in ruins! This >>>>>> video is >>>>>> not funny, it is perverse, corrupted and evil! >>>>>> >>>>>> I will leave these things to the people that want to embrace these >>>>>> things >>>>>> and these ways. >>>>>> >>>>>> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote: >>>>>>>Warning - profanity laden preacher >>>>>>> >>>>>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jIWWFBvs7A >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Compliments of rmmp >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Don >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> &g
creator: Don Nafe
date: 2006-03-28T12:53:30-00:00

Re: Paris mix bus and converter quality? Better than cubase sx / RME ???
type: item
description: Thanks "JB" <no@mail.com> wrote in message news:44490d5f$1@linux... >I have one, but if I could do it over, I'd get either a Presonus Central >Station or even a Colman Audio monitor control, as both of those are >passive. > > The Big Knob has nice features and is very convenient, but it does send > your signal through an extra amplification stage. > > > "Rob Arsenault" <info@studiomanitou.com> wrote in message > news:4449092f$1@linux... >> Been looking at this thing, looks rather cool and handy...!! >> >> http://www.mackie.com/products/bigknob/index.html >> >> Rob >> > >I'm for a new round of balancing law based on a doctrine of indiscrimination. Dubya "Tony Benson" <tony@standinghampton.com> wrote in message news:444913ba@linux... > You're right Dubya. My point was, who ever would have said no to airing > his potty mouth would have been up for discrimination. Even if the station > manager was African American, he'd have been by the guys own words a house > "you know what". Sad, sad state of affairs. > > Tony > > > "W. Mark Wilson" <wmarkwilson@integrity.com> wrote in message > news:44481a69@linux... >> Just because LF and JJ have made such racist statements does not >> necessarily mean the delusioned reverand would necessarily have cause to >> use the word "Whitey." Careful there bro. Could be a Puerto Rican >> running that desk, giving a thumbs up or a thumbs down already. I'm >> almost positive the question has already been raised by considerably more >> than one viewer. You're right about one thing - that sure looks like >> every well used phone book I've ever seen. >> >> Dubya >> >> "Tony Benson" <tony@standinghampton.com> wrote in message >> news:4447ed3a$1@linux... >>> Public Access community standards is an oxymoron! If they'd refused to >>> air him, he'd probably have Jesse Jackson and Louis Farrakhan standing >>> behind him at the press conference as he announced his lawsuit. It would >>> have been, using his own words, "Whitey oppressing his freedom of >>…
creator: Aaron Allen
date: 2006-03-28T13:35:01-00:00

Re: Paris mix bus and converter quality? Better than cubase sx / RME ???
type: item
description: nk">dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:4447e1a0@linux... >>>>>> Oh I forgot to ask >>>>>> >>>>>> who are you? >>>>>> >>>>>> Don >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "no" <no@nonono.com> wrote in message news:4447d6b1$1@linux... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> offensive trash! It seams these days that everybody wants to twist >>>>>>> and pervert >>>>>>> everything they can, especially the truth. Some are self >>>>>>> proclaimed. Some >>>>>>> want to rewrite history to suit their agenda. Some want to portray >>>>>>> pimps, >>>>>>> prostitutes, thieves and drug dealers as heros. This is the >>>>>>> mentality of >>>>>>> a bastard society. Some have been given the keys to the cities that >>>>>>> were >>>>>>> once beautiful, now the cities are corrupted and in ruins! This >>>>>>> video is >>>>>>> not funny, it is perverse, corrupted and evil! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I will leave these things to the people that want to embrace these >>>>>>> things >>>>>>> and these ways. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote: >>>>>>>>Warning - profanity laden preacher >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jIWWFBvs7A >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Compliments of rmmp >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Don >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > >Rob, I have a Central Station and love it FWIW. All switching is done with sealed silver contact relays and the DA converter sounds nicer than the MEC outputs. Probably not as nice as a DAC-1, but still quite good. I've heard some good things about the digimax LT. Basically that it was solid for the price. I have a friend who actually really likes the Mackie Onyx 800R. Maybe a little more money, but supposedly sounds pretty nice. I need to get over to his place and check it out for myself. Anyway, try to buy from a dealer who will let you return it if it doesn't suit you. Tony "Rob Arsenault" <info@studiomanitou.com> wrote in message news:44491623$1@linux... > Yea, so I hear, and also it causes quite a snakes nest of cables onto your > desk as well…
creator: Don Nafe
date: 2006-03-28T13:51:53-00:00

Re: Paris mix bus and converter quality? Better than cubase sx / RME ???
type: item
description: a long long way by becoming familiar with the thirds and sevenths of all the major and minor chords. Also think of yourself as a horn section. Play as little as necessary to get the harmonic structure across. I assume you're familiar with the circle of fifths. It is the framework upon which songs are constructed. Some classical players I've run into who didn't have theory play for years and years without really grasping this. There's a great trick (which works on guitar as well as keys) where, as you go down the circle of fifths, the third and flatted seventh of a chord can both go down a half step (or a fret) to become the flatted seventh and third of the next chord. If you're not already, become familiar with the I, IV, V, iv, etc. method of chord representations. Transcribe progressions into this form, and then you can easily move them to other keys. Practicing ii V I progressions in all keys is good- even mandatory. Try all manner of ii chords (minor, minor 6, minor 7) in all inversions and see if you can find your way chromatically from each ii to the V chord. All kinds of cool things to be discovered. Keep us posted how you're coming. Some of us have been working on this for decades... I remember vividly watching a good player, late 70s, back when I had no clue. (I was playing bass and reading off his chart.) As the band was playing, he would scan the chart and just sit at the keyboard, waiting for the moment when a chord was needed. Then, blam! It was like magic. He knew just what to play and when. -steveOr, simply ignore everything that's been posted in this thread, grab a fretless bass, and wail away with complete disregard as to whether you're playing a scalar note or not, and just maintain that you perfer to "play on the outside". :) "steve the artguy" <artguy@longtimenosee.net> wrote: > >Kim- > >You've been given more material to go through than you likely can get through >in a lifetime, but go to it! Here are a few helpful hints... > >If you're just com…
creator: Sound Dog
date: 2006-03-28T15:21:12-00:00

Re: Paris mix bus and converter quality? Better than cubase sx / RME ???
type: item
description: /> >> the=20 >> bullet and start putting some serious effort > into improving my = >> chart=20 >> reading skills... > > Cheers, > = >> Kim. >> >> >The Digimax is clean but *sterile* and does not like to be pushed at all. It has some cool features such as monitor through but for sound it really is about as exciting as a blank piece of paper. Dubya "Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:44496ee1$1@linux... > > I know a guy who has the regular Digimax (not LT), and FWIW > he says it's OK, but really lacking in the headroom department. > > Neil > > "Tony Benson" <tony@standinghampton.com> wrote: >>Rob, >> >>I have a Central Station and love it FWIW. All switching is done with >>sealed silver contact relays and the DA converter sounds nicer than the > MEC >>outputs. Probably not as nice as a DAC-1, but still quite good. >> >>I've heard some good things about the digimax LT. Basically that it was > >>solid for the price. I have a friend who actually really likes the Mackie > >>Onyx 800R. Maybe a little more money, but supposedly sounds pretty nice. > I >>need to get over to his place and check it out for myself. Anyway, try to > >>buy from a dealer who will let you return it if it doesn't suit you. >> >>Tony >> >> >>"Rob Arsenault" <info@studiomanitou.com> wrote in message >>news:44491623$1@linux... >>> Yea, so I hear, and also it causes quite a snakes nest of cables onto > your >>> desk as well. Thanks for the heads up guys. While we're on the Presonus > >>> subject, can someone speak for the digimax LT? >>> http://www.presonus.com/digimax_lt.html#diagrams >>> I'm looking for a decent/affordable 8 channel pre with lightpipe and >>> this &g
creator: Mark McDermott
date: 2006-03-28T16:57:53-00:00

Re: Paris mix bus and converter quality? Better than cubase sx / RME ???
type: item
description: dictate what the better sounding unit. The Prosonus is cool, but does have enough gain for me. Plus, the Big Knob as more "routing" options.. "Rob Arsenault" <info@studiomanitou.com> wrote: >Been looking at this thing, looks rather cool and handy...!! > >http://www.mackie.com/products/bigknob/index.html > >Rob > >Just ran across this. I assume this is the audio layer off Mpeg4 video, like MP3 was the audio layer off MPEG1. Anybody know if it's any good? I'm doing some googling... but getting opinions that actually stand true when it somes to the quality of compressed audio can be difficult. Cheers, Kim.This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C66589.C78A6AA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh, I forgot to tell you. After all of this practicing, perspiration and = starvation since you won't be able to work since you're practicing so = much; once you learn how to play jazz, try finding a gig that pays more = than $50.00, all 2 of them a month. While you're playing expect the = usual loudmouthed moron, yelling over your solo, who could give a crap = about all the hip shit you're playing. Then be prepared to turn down or = play more traditional, if you're playing too loud or too hip. And don't = forget that you'll need a day gig to pay for your coke and alcohol = addictions, since you've become so neurotic, myopic and reclusive after = about 10 years of constant 6-8 hr/day shedding. If you had a life before = you became a jazz musician, you can expect that you won't have one = after. Kim, I'm really being facetious but this isn't too far from the truth. = Don't get me wrong, I love jazz. I spent most of my youth and young = adulthood perfecting my craft, completely engrossed in and devoted to = learning how to improvise, solo over changes and write. I still pursue = my 1st love, jazz, with a passion, but I have a day gig so I can pay for = my musical habit. If you do it, do it for…
creator: Deej [1]
date: 2006-03-28T17:34:34-00:00

Re: Paris mix bus and converter quality? Better than cubase sx / RME ???
type: item
description: >don't >>> >>> >>>>know but maybe there is a utility that can salvage the bios? Bummer. >>>> >>>>Rich >>>> >>>> >>>>"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message >>>>news:444af4e4$1@linux... >>>> >>>> >>>>>Ok..........here's the deal. I get this P750 video card happening great >>>> >>>>with >>>> >>>> >>>>>2 x HDSP 9652's in the PCI slots and x UAD-1's in the Magma. Problem >>> >>>is, >>> >>> >>>>>when I boot the computer, the post screen is a garbled bunch of hash. > > If > >>>I >>> >>> >>>>>try to enter the bios, this is also a garbled bunch of hash because it >>>>>follows the post screen. Once I'm past post, the computer boots >>> >>>normally, >>> >>> >>>>>but I need to be able to rtweak the bios so I decide that the bios may >>>> >>>>need >>>> >>>> >>>>>to be updated. I install the ASUS utility that allows one to flash the >>>> >>>>bios >>>> >>>>>from the Windows environment and load it to a floppy. then I launch the >>>> >>>>>utility and try to flash from the floppy. The flash fails and I am >>>> >>>>prompted >>>> >>>> >>>>>to close out of the utility. Well, guess what, my bios is now corrupted >>>> >>>>and >>>> >>>> >>>>>my screens go totally blank. I can't boot to my windows OS disk, Norton >>>>>Ghost recovery disk or my mobo utility disk now. I guess I could clear >>> >>>the >>> >>> >>>>>CMOS, but then I would need to see what was happening when the system >>>> >>>>comes >>>> >>>> >>>>>back online in order to set the time, etc. or I'd be further hosed. >>>>> >>>>>I'm really hating this evil Matrox POS right about now. Had I not > > bought > >>>>it, >>>> >>>> >>>>>I'd be making music, plain and simple. >>>>> >>>>>Anyone tell me how to get back to square 1? >>>>> >>>>>I'm really stumped. >>>>> >>>>>Deej >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>-- >>Chris Ludwig >>ADK >>chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com> >>www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/> >>(859) 635-5762 > > > -- Chris Ludwig ADK chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproa…
creator: SF
date: 2006-03-29T12:18:54-00:00

Re: Paris mix bus and converter quality? Better than cubase sx / RME ???
type: item
description: indows OS disk, >> >>>Norton >> >>>Ghost recovery disk or my mobo utility disk now. I guess I could clear >> > >> > the >> > >> >>>CMOS, but then I would need to see what was happening when the system >> >> >> >>comes >> >> >> >>>back online in order to set the time, etc. or I'd be further hosed. >> >>> >> >>>I'm really hating this evil Matrox POS right about now. Had I not > bought >> >> >> >>it, >> >> >> >>>I'd be making music, plain and simple. >> >>> >> >>>Anyone tell me how to get back to square 1? >> >>> >> >>>I'm really stumped. >> >>> >> >>>Deej >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> >> -- >> Chris Ludwig >> ADK >> chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com> >> www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/> >> (859) 635-5762 > > I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you? http://www.polesoft.com/refer.htmlWould 2 samples really make a noticable audible difference in these situations? "Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote: > >EDS GAte=2 samples with no lookahead. To compensate, nudge back 1ms and insert >analog x sampleslide (or something like that, voxengo makes one also) set >at 78 samples >Rod >"cujo" <chris@nospamapplemanstudio.com> wrote: >> >> >> >>I gots me a question that probably has been answered before. >>What is the latency of the EDS gates with zero lookahead? >>I want to use them on toms on a vey 1980's track, and they really seem to >>kill the fullness of the toms when inserted, even if set not to gate, so >>I figure I am going to need to nudge ala UAD style. >> >>Oh, while I am at it, anyone know the latency of the waves phasor plug, >I >>can't recall the name off hand, metaflanger perhaps. >> >>Thanks again! >I could hear the difference on my BM15's, I didn't think I would. "Paul" <paul@nospam.com> wrote: > >Would 2 samples really make a noticable audible difference in these situations? > > >"Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote: >> >>EDS GAte=2 samples with no lookahead. To compensate, nudge back 1ms …
creator: cujo
date: 2006-03-29T13:12:35-00:00

Re: Paris mix bus and converter quality? Better than cubase sx / RME ???
type: item
description: Are > you too lazy to learn key commands..:) > There are tons of duel head ones. > I would look at the FX6600 series from Gigabyte, ASUS, MSI and XFX. > > Chris > > > DJ wrote: > > Thanks Chris, > > > > What's a cheap NVidia card with 3 x analog video outs? > > > > ;o) > > > > > > "Chris Ludwig" <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote in message > > news:444bdef0@linux... > > > >>HI DJ, > >>REset the CMOS first. YOu Matrox cards have bad video memory more than > >>likely. I would go pick up a cheap nvidia card and never think about > >>Matrox again. Before you boot into windows make sure that the date is > >>set right in the BIOS. > >> > >>Feel free to give me a call on Monday if you need too. > >> > >>Chris > >> > >>DJ wrote: > >> > >>>It was definitely a failed flash. Thing is, I used the ASUS utility and > >>>followed the instructions to the letter. That's kind scary, eh? > >>> > >>>;o) > >>> > >>> > >>>"Rich Lamanna" <richard.lamanna@verizon.net> wrote in message > >>>news:444b83bd@linux... > >>> > >>> > >>>>Deej, flashing the bios is tricky business. I remember when I flashed > > > > mine > > > >>>>sometime back, reading that if the procedure is aborted or if there is a > >>>>power failure during the flash that the bois would be unrecoverable. I > >>> > >>>don't > >>> > >>> > >>>>know but maybe there is a utility that can salvage the bios? Bummer. > >>>> > >>>>Rich > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message > >>>>news:444af4e4$1@linux... > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>Ok..........here's the deal. I get this P750 video card happening great > >>>> > >>>>with > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>2 x HDSP 9652's in the PCI slots and x UAD-1's in the Magma. Problem > >>> > >>>is, > >>> > >>> > >>>>>when I boot the computer, the post screen is a garbled bunch of hash. > > > > If > > > >>>I > >>> > >>> > >>>>>try to enter the bios, this is also a garbled bunch of hash because it > >>>>>follows the post screen. Once I'm past post, the computer boots > >>> > >>>normall…
creator: SF
date: 2006-03-29T14:22:59-00:00

Re: Paris mix bus and converter quality? Better than cubase sx / RME ???
type: item
description: r /> > is a fellow Parisian, and a killer player with lots of chart > action these days. Super nice guy, too... > > > "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote: >>Hi All >> >>The latest project I'm working on is in dire need of a sax player to wail > >>out a solo. >> >>If anyone is interested I can send an MP3 of the tune for you to check out > >>(it's only 2.2 megs) and then send a wav file for recording purposes. >> >>There are no bucks involved but credit on the CD will be given (sorry, not > >>my call) >> >>email me if you're interested >> >>Thanks >> >>Don >> >> >Wanted to get an opinion - reviews, spec's etc. look good... Pop/Rock type stuff... currently have JoeMeek, DBX, Symerix, pre's... any better sugestions for a tube colored vox pre in the same $$ range. Someone mentioned a digitech VTP?? ThanksWe use the ART stuff alot. they have charater and sound like they're more expensive the cost. "Rich" <studiodog_99@yahoo.com> wrote: > >Wanted to get an opinion - reviews, spec's etc. look good... Pop/Rock type >stuff... currently have JoeMeek, DBX, Symerix, pre's... any better sugestions >for a tube colored vox pre in the same $$ range. Someone mentioned a digitech >VTP?? ThanksHI DJ, It's made by Color graphic and has a ATI graphics chip so I don't expect it to work well and has proprietary cabling so make sure it has the cables included. But at this point its no worse than what you have now. Chris DJ wrote: > I'm so disgustingly lazy that I've located a 4 head Xentera AGP. Haven't > bought it yet though. These things any good? Can I depend on it to hose me > any worse than the P750? > > ;o) > > "Chris Ludwig" <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote in message > news:444cca93@linux... >> HI DJ, >> There are none that have 3 heads. Do you really need more than 2? Are >> you too lazy to learn key commands..:) >> There are tons of duel head ones. >> I would look at the FX6600 series from Gigabyte, ASUS, MSI and XFX. >> >> Chris >> >> >> DJ wrote: >>> Thanks Chris, >>> >>> What's a …
creator: Deej [1]
date: 2006-03-29T16:45:53-00:00

Re: Paris mix bus and converter quality? Better than cubase sx / RME ???
type: item
description: i use autotune on >>> vocals >>> which i comped, at 48KHz i have to set the scaletune down about 18-20 > >>> cents. >>> >>> Something wire here and i can't figure it out >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >> >> >>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you? >>http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html >> >> >HI Aaron, YOu will have it dumb down to the slowest device. You will not be able to use any of the customer mixer applets for the various manufacturers. It is basically like using that ASIO4All driver. Thank God RME doesn't use one of the generic firewire audio chips so they won't have to deal with all nightmare support the other folks will. Chris Aaron Allen wrote: > Very cool find dude. I wonder how they handle the different > archetecture/latency issues? > Man, just imagine what those guys would do with a Paris rig if properly > motivated/educated/legalized with it. > > AA > > > "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:444d9a65$1@linux... > >> http://news.harmony-central.com/Newp/2006/CEntrance-Universa l-Driver.html > > > > I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you? > http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html > > -- Chris Ludwig ADK chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com> www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/> (859) 635-5762Does anyone know of a good source to find an inexpensive laptop. It isn't for recording, but I'm hoping someone has researched this already and I can benefit from the experience. Thanks Barry Also, I've noticed a trend towards Seagate (for desktop computer) hard drives lately. Is there any reason other than price and warranty or have people found them to be more reliable.Here is a nice Chainer and any compressor with 0 latency vst or DX (most are 0 latency) to achieve multiband with up to 10 bands !! per track !! Open chainer on you audio track. Now chainer has 10 pages. Open on as many pages as yopu want, say a 3 band splitter so you use 3 chainer pages. On each of the three first chainer pages you put in…
creator: Don Nafe
date: 2006-03-31T11:38:38-00:00